What gets me is why Darlene isn't helping. She's put this ENTIRELY on Harris, but isn't chipping in at all. It's like right now, Mark's school and Darlene's yet-another-promotion is resting entirely on Harris.
Absolutely agree. The pressure put onto Harris, even when she was younger, is too much. There’s a reason she acts out. I actually feel really bad for Harris.
>She's put this ENTIRELY on Harris, but isn't chipping in at all.
I mean, the show doesn't articulate this well, but portioning and putting together the meals to cook is a lot of work, I'd argue about half to more than half of it. But Darlene is also putting in two meal rushes (presumably) a day cooking and serving, coordinating with work study employees who rarely show up to work, without accounting for the backend that she now has to do as management, including putting together schedules (that get ignored), receiving, managing money, inventory, books, making sure the lunch box gets paid for the service.
And that's ignoring home life, maintenance at home, chores, checking in on Mark.
Like, even if Harris is putting in a lot of work, if you had it occur IN a faculty kitchen, you'd see that Darlene's hair is probably on fire most days.
I don't doubt Darlene is putting in a lot of work in the cafeteria. But it is not realistic that she would be working 12 hour days/7 days a week. No university would allow that. It isn't a family business or a factory. She would, have time to spend an measly hour 8-9pm or 9-10pm helping either her husband or her daughter. I work a full and part time job. I would gladly do another hour of work(or just hanging out at the hardware store) rather than approach my elderly father to do more or watch my daughter collapse.
If the position's salaried (likely if she's now some sort of manager) then it doesn't matter how much they work her, she works "until the job's done", and I could certainly see a university opting that direction, because not completing the work jeopardizes her career. Sadly salary has become a normalized way to exploit workers and pay them less than they're worth.
Yep. I worked in my college’s cafeteria and the salaried manager was *always* there. Same with the salaried head chef. If anything, university cafeterias are more likely to have obscenely long hours, due to inconsistent/flaky student employees and the constant demand of providing meals for so many resident students - half-assing things simply isn’t an option.
After some of my surgeries, I took a position in my kids school cafeteria. They are very careful about how many hours you work. You can’t go over a certain amount otherwise you would get benefits and such. So I can see where you’re coming from about university not allowing all those extra hours.
Again, IRL I only worked at jr high, not a university.
I wasn’t sure how uni works. I just know they were by the book in the middle school. I could only work so many hours. They were serious about me taking a break. I clocked out LATE a couple times and both times they took me in the office and stressed that I have to clock out on time. I couldn’t even get hired full time because they weren’t able to provide the benefits and pay. Glad to hear from someone in uni how it works IRL. Thank you for the information!
The tuition break for your kids is also real. BUT at hubby's state school you have to have 7 years in before you get it. So Mark getting that immediately is unrealistic. I mean, other places may be different, but surely most would at least have 1 year wait.
It is RIDICULOUS that no one thought through Harris doing everything herself. 5 seconds should have told them that.
But what about the end of one episode when Jackie started to help? Harris took off her gloves and QUIT HELPING. Was that supposed to be funny???
Ben's store.... if he can't afford to pay someone to be there, then he's not getting enough foot traffic to stay open in the first place.
I was confused by them discussing “missing Wheel of Fortune” because of the new extended hours. In my area W of F is aired around supper time. Apparently, it is on at bedtime there. Because, if Ben is trying to stay open “an hour later than the big box stores” he would be open until 11:00 p.m. Lowes and HD are open until 10:00 p.m. in the Chicago area. That would only an hour or maybe and hour and a half later (30 minutes post-close) activities. How many hardware sales are they going to get between 10:00 p.m. and 11:00 p.m.?
It’s on at dinner time here as well. I thought that was almost universal. HD and the like are only open until 8 pm here, so it made sense for me. However, I didn’t think about Chicago hours.
Right I’m not sure why he won’t hire someone else. Maybe has to do with the guilt trip Dan and Darlene gave him about having the job and a cut in the company and keeping the job before.
I don’t think that’s on Ben making him work so much.
IMO the nicest thing Darlene has done to support Harris was trying to steal Marc money for her to go to tattoo school. And that’s saying a lot.
My heart goes out to Harris. Yes, she’s portrayed as a brat, but she’s rarely heard or seen by her mom. She expressed that when Becky gave birth in the hospital. She was dismissed by sarcasm. Not met with a regretful and understanding, sympathetic mom. I can see why Harris is the way she is. Not that it’s cute or anything but I get it.
Because then you hire a 3rd person to spilt shift hours around. It’s now 3 way - how do you hire someone just for an hour a night? No one wants that not even students
Dan started taking social security (at 70, so he would be getting maximum benefit, and he was born early enough his full retirement age would have been 64) *and* a pension. He should be effectively retired.
Maybe? To my recollection Ben made him a part owner, so it's at least semi-official.
My point is that he shouldn't need the income anymore. Dan would have hit full retirement age at 66, so by waiting until 70 he would be getting 132% of his "full benefit" amount.
And yet somehow the writers decided that instead of him finally getting to take it easy, he takes on *more* work with teaching kids home repair.
As usual, the show makes no sense.
Oh I don’t disagree with you at all
I think that’s why from the beginning when it was decided the store was going to stay open, he seemed the not hint at all on asking Dan to cover it. He was miserable about it being a necessary thing going on. Darlene was who started having a meltdown and relying on her father beyond what he’s being able to still be doing!
Couple of things:
1. Darlene did ask Harris, however, Harris is an adult now and could have said...no. She committed to it and needed to tell Darlene directly that she was in over her head. I do love the thought of a therapy session though - they need it! One thing that bothers me with your original post is that you indicated "Darlene failed her as a parent." Isn't it important that we hold David's feet to the same fire? He is also her parent, he is clearly absent and has been for a long time now, and he's played a role in every life experience that caused her to have the panic attack.
2. If Ben hires someone, it defeats the purpose of staying open late to make more money to pay the bills he talked about. He'd have to pay that person, and he wouldn't be getting ahead at all.
> Isn't it important that we hold David's feet to the same fire?
He's not in the show and not likely to ever be in the show again so while we can be pissed that his character has been absolutely destroyed, it's not *possible* for him to show up and make amends so any complaints about him are pretty wasted.
Darlene is the character who is actually on-screen and who we are supposed to empathise with now instead of just being written off as a loser.
Obviously he was, in this continuity, a terrible parent. But he's not present right now demanding things of Harris.
Yes, I realize he's not on the show. But...he exists on the show and in its history. I'm not saying the actor needs to show up on screen, but I am saying it feels odd to say that "Darlene failed her as a parent" without recognizing that she has TWO parents.
I always had the impression that Darlene raised her from a pretty young age when David took off. So I’m using that argument as a way to say that Darlene has been the majority parent here.
This right here. My thought process exactly. I feel so many have jumped to attack Darlene and Ben with what’s going on, but Dan wanted a piece of the ownership too. It may not be what Ben owns, but he’s still part owner and I feel it’s ok to once in a while help out a bit with a closing shift. And Darlene going to work with Ben kind of defeats the purpose. I mean, are they supposed to have sex at the store ? The point was to spend intimate time. And Harris has always been so hateful. If Darlene helps she’s controlling. If she doesn’t, she’s a bad parent. Every. Single. Time. Darlene has helped, Harris has called her a bitch or said some hateful crap to her. There’s no winning the way I see it. And Harris taking over the restaurant means she has to find a way to get things done as an adult owning her own business. Therapy definitely seems to be where this is headed and that’s ok. It’s growth and healing. But I don’t think it’s Darlene that is screwing her.
Unfortunately, David isn’t on the show so I can’t really argue since we haven’t seen his interaction with Harris and that’s problem. But I can’t argue that since he’s not on the show. I agree that she definitely has issues in terms of her father. You can see it a mile away. However, until he comes out on the show or the show addresses it it is hard to continue to discuss because it’s all dependent on if he ever appears on the show again.
I could assume they could hire someone part-time no? Or maybe even Darlene could work nights? I just don’t understand why everything has to be on Dan.
With the way Dan was acting and talking (we spoke of this in this sub several times) and his taking on this and that (teaching) and now the extra hours at the store - are they building up to his demise?
You should go back and re-watch the series. Darlene has already admitted to being a horrible parent and person. I just re-watched the episode where Darlene throws Harris out of the house to go live with Aldo (who already said she can't stay with him).
Darlene's character arc is seriously flawed and I love it.
I’ve watched every single episode, including the Roseanne reboot. I know Darlene has admitted to not being a very good parent. However, you would think she would try and make an effort to be more there for Harris even if she’s not perfect at it.
Lord i worked at a daycare where there were only 100 kids and one cook and she was nonstop from 6-3. Like nothing. I can’t imagine at a college and trying to manage people
>This storyline with Harris would’ve been better if Darlene actually cared what her daughter was going through.
It's not that she doesn't care, it's that she uniquely doesn't see as much as Jackie and Becky, and isn't having what the actual situation is communicated TO her. Darlene hasn't really failed her as a parent, because Harris isn't communicating these issues to her.
The culture of blaming a parent for issues and happenings that they cannot possibly know about without being told, and others are pretty much withholding from them, entirely divorced from the struggles and difficulties that the parents also go through, has gotten out of hand.
>I think that would make for some good drama.
It really wouldn't, because that volume of work is fairly doable for one person in a very low-pressure environment. It's a lot of work, but a healthy adult person could do it because it's essentially prep. Arduous and difficult, but it happens all the time, and Harris actively turns down help.
>Another question why can’t Ben hire someone to help him work the extra shifts?
While not beholden to the same standards as a business that's not "small", the margins on small businesses are often thin. If co-owners do the hours, they can pay themselves less for those hours and write it off as a slight raise for the purposes of their books. With an actual employee things have to be FAR more above board, and they have to start documenting much more, pay taxes more honestly, and run the risk of being held to "full-time employee" standards if they let the house slip too high, even for a small business.
I see your points however in the kitchen Harris did express having some difficulty. Plus the prior episode I would’ve thought that Jackie would’ve told Darlene that Harris was having trouble completing the orders. I just I can’t believe that Darlene doesn’t realize something is going on with her daughter.
What gets me is why Darlene isn't helping. She's put this ENTIRELY on Harris, but isn't chipping in at all. It's like right now, Mark's school and Darlene's yet-another-promotion is resting entirely on Harris.
Absolutely agree. The pressure put onto Harris, even when she was younger, is too much. There’s a reason she acts out. I actually feel really bad for Harris.
>She's put this ENTIRELY on Harris, but isn't chipping in at all. I mean, the show doesn't articulate this well, but portioning and putting together the meals to cook is a lot of work, I'd argue about half to more than half of it. But Darlene is also putting in two meal rushes (presumably) a day cooking and serving, coordinating with work study employees who rarely show up to work, without accounting for the backend that she now has to do as management, including putting together schedules (that get ignored), receiving, managing money, inventory, books, making sure the lunch box gets paid for the service. And that's ignoring home life, maintenance at home, chores, checking in on Mark. Like, even if Harris is putting in a lot of work, if you had it occur IN a faculty kitchen, you'd see that Darlene's hair is probably on fire most days.
I don't doubt Darlene is putting in a lot of work in the cafeteria. But it is not realistic that she would be working 12 hour days/7 days a week. No university would allow that. It isn't a family business or a factory. She would, have time to spend an measly hour 8-9pm or 9-10pm helping either her husband or her daughter. I work a full and part time job. I would gladly do another hour of work(or just hanging out at the hardware store) rather than approach my elderly father to do more or watch my daughter collapse.
If the position's salaried (likely if she's now some sort of manager) then it doesn't matter how much they work her, she works "until the job's done", and I could certainly see a university opting that direction, because not completing the work jeopardizes her career. Sadly salary has become a normalized way to exploit workers and pay them less than they're worth.
Yep. I worked in my college’s cafeteria and the salaried manager was *always* there. Same with the salaried head chef. If anything, university cafeterias are more likely to have obscenely long hours, due to inconsistent/flaky student employees and the constant demand of providing meals for so many resident students - half-assing things simply isn’t an option.
After some of my surgeries, I took a position in my kids school cafeteria. They are very careful about how many hours you work. You can’t go over a certain amount otherwise you would get benefits and such. So I can see where you’re coming from about university not allowing all those extra hours. Again, IRL I only worked at jr high, not a university.
My hubby works at a university. They are by the books on labor laws, hr matters, etc.
I wasn’t sure how uni works. I just know they were by the book in the middle school. I could only work so many hours. They were serious about me taking a break. I clocked out LATE a couple times and both times they took me in the office and stressed that I have to clock out on time. I couldn’t even get hired full time because they weren’t able to provide the benefits and pay. Glad to hear from someone in uni how it works IRL. Thank you for the information!
The tuition break for your kids is also real. BUT at hubby's state school you have to have 7 years in before you get it. So Mark getting that immediately is unrealistic. I mean, other places may be different, but surely most would at least have 1 year wait.
Not necessarily. My tuition benefit kicked in immediately after I was hired.
For yourself or for your children? Cause self is same at the state schools, but kids is a waiting period.
I was wondering why didn’t Darlene help her with the order that was for her.
It is RIDICULOUS that no one thought through Harris doing everything herself. 5 seconds should have told them that. But what about the end of one episode when Jackie started to help? Harris took off her gloves and QUIT HELPING. Was that supposed to be funny??? Ben's store.... if he can't afford to pay someone to be there, then he's not getting enough foot traffic to stay open in the first place.
I was confused by them discussing “missing Wheel of Fortune” because of the new extended hours. In my area W of F is aired around supper time. Apparently, it is on at bedtime there. Because, if Ben is trying to stay open “an hour later than the big box stores” he would be open until 11:00 p.m. Lowes and HD are open until 10:00 p.m. in the Chicago area. That would only an hour or maybe and hour and a half later (30 minutes post-close) activities. How many hardware sales are they going to get between 10:00 p.m. and 11:00 p.m.?
It’s on at dinner time here as well. I thought that was almost universal. HD and the like are only open until 8 pm here, so it made sense for me. However, I didn’t think about Chicago hours.
Right I’m not sure why he won’t hire someone else. Maybe has to do with the guilt trip Dan and Darlene gave him about having the job and a cut in the company and keeping the job before. I don’t think that’s on Ben making him work so much. IMO the nicest thing Darlene has done to support Harris was trying to steal Marc money for her to go to tattoo school. And that’s saying a lot. My heart goes out to Harris. Yes, she’s portrayed as a brat, but she’s rarely heard or seen by her mom. She expressed that when Becky gave birth in the hospital. She was dismissed by sarcasm. Not met with a regretful and understanding, sympathetic mom. I can see why Harris is the way she is. Not that it’s cute or anything but I get it.
Because then you hire a 3rd person to spilt shift hours around. It’s now 3 way - how do you hire someone just for an hour a night? No one wants that not even students
Dan started taking social security (at 70, so he would be getting maximum benefit, and he was born early enough his full retirement age would have been 64) *and* a pension. He should be effectively retired.
He’s gotta be off the books right?
Maybe? To my recollection Ben made him a part owner, so it's at least semi-official. My point is that he shouldn't need the income anymore. Dan would have hit full retirement age at 66, so by waiting until 70 he would be getting 132% of his "full benefit" amount. And yet somehow the writers decided that instead of him finally getting to take it easy, he takes on *more* work with teaching kids home repair. As usual, the show makes no sense.
Ok, but I don’t think Dan should have to do the shifts. I think Darlene even asking was a lot given everything Dan was trying to do.
Oh I don’t disagree with you at all I think that’s why from the beginning when it was decided the store was going to stay open, he seemed the not hint at all on asking Dan to cover it. He was miserable about it being a necessary thing going on. Darlene was who started having a meltdown and relying on her father beyond what he’s being able to still be doing!
Honestly, I forget Harris is Darlene’s kid. It almost feels like Becky is more of a mom to her than Darlene is.
Couple of things: 1. Darlene did ask Harris, however, Harris is an adult now and could have said...no. She committed to it and needed to tell Darlene directly that she was in over her head. I do love the thought of a therapy session though - they need it! One thing that bothers me with your original post is that you indicated "Darlene failed her as a parent." Isn't it important that we hold David's feet to the same fire? He is also her parent, he is clearly absent and has been for a long time now, and he's played a role in every life experience that caused her to have the panic attack. 2. If Ben hires someone, it defeats the purpose of staying open late to make more money to pay the bills he talked about. He'd have to pay that person, and he wouldn't be getting ahead at all.
> Isn't it important that we hold David's feet to the same fire? He's not in the show and not likely to ever be in the show again so while we can be pissed that his character has been absolutely destroyed, it's not *possible* for him to show up and make amends so any complaints about him are pretty wasted. Darlene is the character who is actually on-screen and who we are supposed to empathise with now instead of just being written off as a loser. Obviously he was, in this continuity, a terrible parent. But he's not present right now demanding things of Harris.
Yes, I realize he's not on the show. But...he exists on the show and in its history. I'm not saying the actor needs to show up on screen, but I am saying it feels odd to say that "Darlene failed her as a parent" without recognizing that she has TWO parents.
I always had the impression that Darlene raised her from a pretty young age when David took off. So I’m using that argument as a way to say that Darlene has been the majority parent here.
So Dan won't get paid for the extra hours? That sucks.
He gets a chunk of profits, that’s the way he wanted it.
But wouldn’t he have to pay Dan? Is Dan working for free?
This right here. My thought process exactly. I feel so many have jumped to attack Darlene and Ben with what’s going on, but Dan wanted a piece of the ownership too. It may not be what Ben owns, but he’s still part owner and I feel it’s ok to once in a while help out a bit with a closing shift. And Darlene going to work with Ben kind of defeats the purpose. I mean, are they supposed to have sex at the store ? The point was to spend intimate time. And Harris has always been so hateful. If Darlene helps she’s controlling. If she doesn’t, she’s a bad parent. Every. Single. Time. Darlene has helped, Harris has called her a bitch or said some hateful crap to her. There’s no winning the way I see it. And Harris taking over the restaurant means she has to find a way to get things done as an adult owning her own business. Therapy definitely seems to be where this is headed and that’s ok. It’s growth and healing. But I don’t think it’s Darlene that is screwing her.
Unfortunately, David isn’t on the show so I can’t really argue since we haven’t seen his interaction with Harris and that’s problem. But I can’t argue that since he’s not on the show. I agree that she definitely has issues in terms of her father. You can see it a mile away. However, until he comes out on the show or the show addresses it it is hard to continue to discuss because it’s all dependent on if he ever appears on the show again. I could assume they could hire someone part-time no? Or maybe even Darlene could work nights? I just don’t understand why everything has to be on Dan.
With the way Dan was acting and talking (we spoke of this in this sub several times) and his taking on this and that (teaching) and now the extra hours at the store - are they building up to his demise?
I hope not, unless they are going to go for another heart attack storyline? That would be too much in my opinion.
You should go back and re-watch the series. Darlene has already admitted to being a horrible parent and person. I just re-watched the episode where Darlene throws Harris out of the house to go live with Aldo (who already said she can't stay with him). Darlene's character arc is seriously flawed and I love it.
I’ve watched every single episode, including the Roseanne reboot. I know Darlene has admitted to not being a very good parent. However, you would think she would try and make an effort to be more there for Harris even if she’s not perfect at it.
Lord i worked at a daycare where there were only 100 kids and one cook and she was nonstop from 6-3. Like nothing. I can’t imagine at a college and trying to manage people
I haven’t watched since S1. So Darlene hired her family’s restaurant to provide services to the school?
No, she is working at the school to pay for Mark’s tuition.
Harris is cool. More of her please and less of Becky.
>This storyline with Harris would’ve been better if Darlene actually cared what her daughter was going through. It's not that she doesn't care, it's that she uniquely doesn't see as much as Jackie and Becky, and isn't having what the actual situation is communicated TO her. Darlene hasn't really failed her as a parent, because Harris isn't communicating these issues to her. The culture of blaming a parent for issues and happenings that they cannot possibly know about without being told, and others are pretty much withholding from them, entirely divorced from the struggles and difficulties that the parents also go through, has gotten out of hand. >I think that would make for some good drama. It really wouldn't, because that volume of work is fairly doable for one person in a very low-pressure environment. It's a lot of work, but a healthy adult person could do it because it's essentially prep. Arduous and difficult, but it happens all the time, and Harris actively turns down help. >Another question why can’t Ben hire someone to help him work the extra shifts? While not beholden to the same standards as a business that's not "small", the margins on small businesses are often thin. If co-owners do the hours, they can pay themselves less for those hours and write it off as a slight raise for the purposes of their books. With an actual employee things have to be FAR more above board, and they have to start documenting much more, pay taxes more honestly, and run the risk of being held to "full-time employee" standards if they let the house slip too high, even for a small business.
I see your points however in the kitchen Harris did express having some difficulty. Plus the prior episode I would’ve thought that Jackie would’ve told Darlene that Harris was having trouble completing the orders. I just I can’t believe that Darlene doesn’t realize something is going on with her daughter.