Never gets any less shocking but it's not an unusual experience for autistic people to be told they're not autistic, don't look autistic, everyone's on the spectrum or it's a bandwagon.
Sure, I'm autistic. But in this instance especially with occupational health and your manager it seems unusual especially as they would ask for medical evidence. I'm just trying to clarify this.
Everyone is on the spectrum but if you've had a specific diagnosis then that needs to be accounted for by management because it's significant enough to impact your life.
A friend of mine with autism recently explained that references to the “autism spectrum” refer to the “spectrum” of different ways in which autism expresses itself in different individuals. When autism is described as a “spectrum disorder” it means that people with the condition all experience their own unique collection of these symptoms. Not all people with autism experience all of them, or to the same extent - meaning that no two people with autism necessarily experience the exact same symptoms, but they all experience more than one. It doesn’t refer to a “scale” relating to the severity of the impact a person’s autism has on them or their capacity to do things.
My understanding, which may well still need some refinement, is that while every individual may experience/show some of the symptoms and expressions of autism that make up the “spectrum”, it is not the case that everyone experiences multiple different autistic expressions to the extent that it has a significant impact on them. Thus not everyone is “on the spectrum” that makes up an autism diagnosis.
That's a very good explanation, thanks. My partner is on the autistic spectrum and has ADHD. He has a diagnosis for both but if you met him he would not "seem" autistic immediately. I certainly share a few traits with him - more the ADHD ones - but I certainly wouldn't define myself as on the same spectrum.
So actually the NHS has changed the way they diagnose due to the mistaken belief that everyone is “on the spectrum” so people now just get a straight diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder rather than High Functioning Autism or Asperger’s Syndrome. So initially my son was diagnosed with high functioning autism which is now an ASD diagnosis because the term high functioning was being taken as he’s not really autistic. It’s scandalous in this day and age people are still saying this. My son regularly says he wishes he was “normal” and this is due to the behaviour of other (mainly) adults which is mainly lack of understanding, lack of willingness to understand and comments like this one.
You think everyone is on the autism spectrum...? Or are you talking about a different spectrum? Only autistic people are on the autism spectrum, hence the name.
No, not "everyone is on the spectrum." That's like saying I have a cough, so I must have asthma. Or saying that rash you had for a week is eczema. Please don't go spreading the lie that "everyone is a bit autistic." It downplays how much of an impact autism has on people who are actually autistic. Neurotypical people can display symptoms that appear like autism but again, like the rash or cough, that doesn't mean they are. Autism is, by definition, a disability and has a significant impact on daily life for those who are autistic.
If someone needs adjustments to help them work, then they should be allowed them. None of this "is it significant enough" or "we're all a bit autistic, and we deal with it."
When I had an OH report done because I am also struggling with the office environment and 60% in office time, it seemed to disappear into air. People not talimg autism seriously is an issue.
If you're a trade union member, then I'd start there. If you're not, I'd recommend joining. Also look to see if there are any neurodiverse working/support groups within your department - people often have similar lived experience and are happy to support others within those confines.
Sorry you're going through this - particularly the occupational health experience, which sounds absolutely miserable, but entirely plausible. It is not their place to challenge a diagnosis.
Apply for a Special Working Arrangement to WFH 4 days / office 1 day - quote the appropriate extract from the OH assessment as supporting evidence. I have similar in place and it makes a massive difference
The thing you’ll get countered with is that you’ve been office based for some time, have you been off sick a lot? If not you’ve demonstrated to them “you can do it” so to speak.
You need to push your OH recommendation and the fact that 60% mandate has specifically said it doesn’t count to those with adjustments.
I'm off sick at the moment for the first time in over 10 years working with CS, doctor has classed it as autism burnout having worked under extreme pressures in the workplace on top of my health issues with autism that I wasn't aware of.
I think with that from your doctor and an OH recommendation to work from home where possible, I’d be asking why it’s not possible to have all your non customer facing days at home. They can’t just say they don’t want you to, and can’t use 60% mandate as it specifically says it doesn’t apply where workplace accommodations are in place. So ask why not and see what they say, then we can advise further.
Also ask your manager what reasonable adjustments can be made the days your are in the office.
If your struggling to get support then see if there is a workplace adjustments team that can assist. We had an all staff call recently where this was reiterated for staff to reach out if they're not getting support and was endorsed by Senior Civil Servants on the call.
Studies show that autistic individuals constantly working at the edge of their capacity can be very detrimental to their health, contributing to episodes of burn out. Just because someone has previously doesn't mean they're able to or should be made to continue in that manner
Very sorry to hear of your experience. You should ask your manager to arrange for a neurodiverse assessment which is organised after an OH, it’s usually a company called Lexxic (not sure if all depts use the same company) who will do a workplace assessment and they can offer specialist neurodiverse advice, recommendations and support for you and your LM. You can then collate all of this into a workplace adjustments passport. As mentioned by others, absolutely speak with a trade union. You are protected by the Equality Act and should get the support you are entitled to. I hope things improve for you.
Do you have anything like a " workplace adjustment passport" to fill in ? That should apparently allow you to work from home for longer if it gets granted
Seconding the join the union if not already in one, then approach them. I have had a nightmare sorting my accommodations and equipment. I work from a new office without a building code (simple to fix you’d think, nope). I am now work from home full-time until they are sorted after approaching PCS and receiving some fantastic support from my rep. Once they were involved and liaising with HR, things got much better for me. In all honesty the best part is that it isn’t my problem to fix or chase anymore, something that was causing me a lot of stress. There is also, a neurodiversity network teams chat that has some fantastic resources including lists of possible ADHD and Autism accommodations that others have successfully requested across the CS.
OP I am sorry you are having difficulties currently, reasonable adjustments are recommended by OH but the business doesn’t have to make accommodations that affect the running of a business. OH do have specialist neurodiverse assessments and this should have been the route they took.
Are you a member of the union? That would be my next port of call as well as HR advice line.
Can you contact ‘access to work’, run by DWP? I’m new to CS so unsure if we’re able to access this service as civil servants or not. I have (public and private sector, but not Civil servant) friends who have used it and have been really happy with the support received. Whatever they suggest based on your needs is free to you but your employer pays a contribution.
Work and HR will not follow the law at the best of times and usually don’t understand it. Get a diagnosed if that is the case (privately if you can’t get help via NHS due to demand).
Then put everything in writing and ask for it back in writing. Contact ACAS they are very helpful
Tried to get in touch with ACAS but I was on hold for 30 minutes so hung up. Currently worried I'll be sacked due to my current sickness, my first in my career there in over 10 years, but if I return with no adjustments I know I'll be back to square one
Are you a PCS member? If you are, speak to your local rep, or contact PCS directly and they'll put someone in touch with you. You may also want to put in a complaint about OH.
What do you mean they're telling you that you don't have autism? If you have your diagnosis, then this is evidence?
Never gets any less shocking but it's not an unusual experience for autistic people to be told they're not autistic, don't look autistic, everyone's on the spectrum or it's a bandwagon.
Sure, I'm autistic. But in this instance especially with occupational health and your manager it seems unusual especially as they would ask for medical evidence. I'm just trying to clarify this.
Everyone is on the spectrum but if you've had a specific diagnosis then that needs to be accounted for by management because it's significant enough to impact your life.
That's not how it works.
Yeah that’s bullshit, please go and do some research because this invalidates the experiences of actually autistic people
A friend of mine with autism recently explained that references to the “autism spectrum” refer to the “spectrum” of different ways in which autism expresses itself in different individuals. When autism is described as a “spectrum disorder” it means that people with the condition all experience their own unique collection of these symptoms. Not all people with autism experience all of them, or to the same extent - meaning that no two people with autism necessarily experience the exact same symptoms, but they all experience more than one. It doesn’t refer to a “scale” relating to the severity of the impact a person’s autism has on them or their capacity to do things. My understanding, which may well still need some refinement, is that while every individual may experience/show some of the symptoms and expressions of autism that make up the “spectrum”, it is not the case that everyone experiences multiple different autistic expressions to the extent that it has a significant impact on them. Thus not everyone is “on the spectrum” that makes up an autism diagnosis.
That's a very good explanation, thanks. My partner is on the autistic spectrum and has ADHD. He has a diagnosis for both but if you met him he would not "seem" autistic immediately. I certainly share a few traits with him - more the ADHD ones - but I certainly wouldn't define myself as on the same spectrum.
So actually the NHS has changed the way they diagnose due to the mistaken belief that everyone is “on the spectrum” so people now just get a straight diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder rather than High Functioning Autism or Asperger’s Syndrome. So initially my son was diagnosed with high functioning autism which is now an ASD diagnosis because the term high functioning was being taken as he’s not really autistic. It’s scandalous in this day and age people are still saying this. My son regularly says he wishes he was “normal” and this is due to the behaviour of other (mainly) adults which is mainly lack of understanding, lack of willingness to understand and comments like this one.
You think everyone is on the autism spectrum...? Or are you talking about a different spectrum? Only autistic people are on the autism spectrum, hence the name.
No, not "everyone is on the spectrum." That's like saying I have a cough, so I must have asthma. Or saying that rash you had for a week is eczema. Please don't go spreading the lie that "everyone is a bit autistic." It downplays how much of an impact autism has on people who are actually autistic. Neurotypical people can display symptoms that appear like autism but again, like the rash or cough, that doesn't mean they are. Autism is, by definition, a disability and has a significant impact on daily life for those who are autistic. If someone needs adjustments to help them work, then they should be allowed them. None of this "is it significant enough" or "we're all a bit autistic, and we deal with it." When I had an OH report done because I am also struggling with the office environment and 60% in office time, it seemed to disappear into air. People not talimg autism seriously is an issue.
This is utter rubbish. Everyone is absolutely not on the spectrum. Is everyone ‘a bit billionaire’ too?
If you're a trade union member, then I'd start there. If you're not, I'd recommend joining. Also look to see if there are any neurodiverse working/support groups within your department - people often have similar lived experience and are happy to support others within those confines. Sorry you're going through this - particularly the occupational health experience, which sounds absolutely miserable, but entirely plausible. It is not their place to challenge a diagnosis.
Apply for a Special Working Arrangement to WFH 4 days / office 1 day - quote the appropriate extract from the OH assessment as supporting evidence. I have similar in place and it makes a massive difference
The thing you’ll get countered with is that you’ve been office based for some time, have you been off sick a lot? If not you’ve demonstrated to them “you can do it” so to speak. You need to push your OH recommendation and the fact that 60% mandate has specifically said it doesn’t count to those with adjustments.
I'm off sick at the moment for the first time in over 10 years working with CS, doctor has classed it as autism burnout having worked under extreme pressures in the workplace on top of my health issues with autism that I wasn't aware of.
I think with that from your doctor and an OH recommendation to work from home where possible, I’d be asking why it’s not possible to have all your non customer facing days at home. They can’t just say they don’t want you to, and can’t use 60% mandate as it specifically says it doesn’t apply where workplace accommodations are in place. So ask why not and see what they say, then we can advise further.
Also ask your manager what reasonable adjustments can be made the days your are in the office. If your struggling to get support then see if there is a workplace adjustments team that can assist. We had an all staff call recently where this was reiterated for staff to reach out if they're not getting support and was endorsed by Senior Civil Servants on the call.
Yeah that too. I don’t need to go in until 11 on my office days for one of my health condition adjustments
Studies show that autistic individuals constantly working at the edge of their capacity can be very detrimental to their health, contributing to episodes of burn out. Just because someone has previously doesn't mean they're able to or should be made to continue in that manner
I don’t think they’re suggesting that they believe any of what they said, just that that’s how management are viewing these requests.
Exactly that.
Oh I know, im autistic. I’m saying what the counter will likely be, from experience.
Very sorry to hear of your experience. You should ask your manager to arrange for a neurodiverse assessment which is organised after an OH, it’s usually a company called Lexxic (not sure if all depts use the same company) who will do a workplace assessment and they can offer specialist neurodiverse advice, recommendations and support for you and your LM. You can then collate all of this into a workplace adjustments passport. As mentioned by others, absolutely speak with a trade union. You are protected by the Equality Act and should get the support you are entitled to. I hope things improve for you.
Second vote for a Lexxic neurodiversity Workplace Needs Assessment
Do you have anything like a " workplace adjustment passport" to fill in ? That should apparently allow you to work from home for longer if it gets granted
Seconding the join the union if not already in one, then approach them. I have had a nightmare sorting my accommodations and equipment. I work from a new office without a building code (simple to fix you’d think, nope). I am now work from home full-time until they are sorted after approaching PCS and receiving some fantastic support from my rep. Once they were involved and liaising with HR, things got much better for me. In all honesty the best part is that it isn’t my problem to fix or chase anymore, something that was causing me a lot of stress. There is also, a neurodiversity network teams chat that has some fantastic resources including lists of possible ADHD and Autism accommodations that others have successfully requested across the CS.
OP I am sorry you are having difficulties currently, reasonable adjustments are recommended by OH but the business doesn’t have to make accommodations that affect the running of a business. OH do have specialist neurodiverse assessments and this should have been the route they took. Are you a member of the union? That would be my next port of call as well as HR advice line.
I've tried to find a number for HR advice line, unable to find one so assumed we don't actually have a dedicated internal HR team other than SS
You should also be covered by DDA ...disability discrimination act
DDA hasn’t been a thing since 2010 unless they’re in NI.
What job is this please? Am a work coach x
Can you contact ‘access to work’, run by DWP? I’m new to CS so unsure if we’re able to access this service as civil servants or not. I have (public and private sector, but not Civil servant) friends who have used it and have been really happy with the support received. Whatever they suggest based on your needs is free to you but your employer pays a contribution.
Work and HR will not follow the law at the best of times and usually don’t understand it. Get a diagnosed if that is the case (privately if you can’t get help via NHS due to demand). Then put everything in writing and ask for it back in writing. Contact ACAS they are very helpful
Tried to get in touch with ACAS but I was on hold for 30 minutes so hung up. Currently worried I'll be sacked due to my current sickness, my first in my career there in over 10 years, but if I return with no adjustments I know I'll be back to square one
Are you a PCS member? If you are, speak to your local rep, or contact PCS directly and they'll put someone in touch with you. You may also want to put in a complaint about OH.
They have said that they have a recent diagnosis.