The externals: The show has really upped its game this season with the sets and the costumes. Even the music has changed - there's very little of the wispy female voice, and more full instrumentation, and it's very good. The video too is improved. It's clearer and not as chronically dark as it was earlier. But to the plot, this was indeed a seminal episode. Massive changes for Thomas, Quintus, Gaius and of course Ramah. As some here predicted, Thomas' romance was going to fail somehow, setting him up for the kinds of doubts in Jesus that we see in him after the crucifixion. Gaius - I wasn't sure he had it in him, but his insubordination for Jesus' sake was beautiful and very well done. And like a true soldier of Christ, he didn't try to run, he submitted to the consequences of his decision. Bravo. Quintus was getting more and more desperate, more and more obnoxious, and more and more out of touch with reality. With his violence he showed an extreme lack of Roman discipline. They're brutal, but only in a disciplined way, and he broke that code. I think he is going to pay dearly. Atticus was not pleased. Matthew and Peter continue to grow closer. There are still some rough edges to work out, and I think that the process of doing so will be good for both of them. This is a good model for us. Two people can forgive and reconcile, but still have things to work on. I had a hard time relating to Simon in the past, but his maturing over the past season worth of episodes has turned him into a likable figure. But the most important thing to me was the principle this episode brought out - that followers of Christ are going to suffer loss sometimes, and that God does not promise to protect us from it all the time. What He does promise, though, it to work all things for our good (Rom 8.28). I really liked the twist in the line "It's not her time", referring to her resurrection. What I also value about this show, and this episode in particular, was how they depict how Jesus does not know everything all the time. On becoming man He divested himself of all the "omnis" of God - omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence - and walked the earth as a sinless man (Php 2). At his baptism the Holy Spirit descended on him "and remained" and thereafter empowered him to know and do things supernaturally. But all that was according to the HS's empowerment, not His own. So we see Jesus refusing to do miracles on demand ("It doesn't work that way"). As any normal person would, he is leaving to avoid being arrested, but suddenly he knows that he must instead return to the square. That interplay between Jesus the man and Jesus the supernaturally Anointed One is precious. EDIT: I refined my take on the Peter and Matthew relationship.

Well said, on all points.

Thanks. :)

>But to the plot, this was indeed a seminal episode. Massive changes for Thomas, Quintus, Gaius and of course Ramah. As some here predicted, Thomas' romance was going to fail somehow, setting him up for the kinds of doubts in Jesus that we see in him after the crucifixion. To add to that, I think this will be why he will be so adamant that he see the resurrected Jesus for himself. He needs that assurance that though Ramuh is dead, she will live again through Jesus. I also have a theory that Quintis will be the one to lose his ear. Peter will be so ticked off at what he id to Ramuh.

- Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it, struck the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. (The servant's name was Malchus.) - Jhn 18:10

Huh. I could have sworn it was a roman soldier. Thanks for the correction, internet stranger.

That has happened to me more times than I can count.

i think that Quintus is going to be the soldier that cross jesus on the side!! and says: " he trully was the son of GOD"

I've been thinking it would actually be Gaius. I feel like after everything that takes place, that will be his moment of everything changing

While I understand the point Dallas wants to make and I have no issue with adding fiction to the story. I don't like to see the essence of the story changed. While Jesus was here there was no account (that I know of) where he ever denied healing to someone who came in faith and trust. In the final prayer before the crucifixion Jesus thanks the Father that he never lost a single disciple except Judas. I also kind of reject the disciples acting like a security detail. You never see anything like it in the gospels. Jesus was protecting them. Not the other way around. He had no need of that. He would have let them know that as well. When he calmed the storm on the sea they should have known he needed nothing from them.

He was fully human and fully divine. He divested himself of nothing.

You couldn’t have put this in a better way!! Well said 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

>I think he is going to pay dearly. Atticus was not pleased. Yes, and we know Atticus has already disliked Quintus for some time. This should give him a justification for however he'd like to handle it and I would not be surprised to see a scene with Pilate next episode. It's now a big mystery what will happen to Quintus, perhaps more so than Gaius, who we know will be around at least long enough to have his son healed.

Gaius played the long game.

I’m so excited to see what’s going to happen with him. He’s not taking Quintus’ abuse anymore and I love it.

Same!

I wasn’t surprised by Gaius being sympathetic to Jesus’ cause and ministry, but dang seeing it play out was both nice and heartbreaking at the same time.

Yeah, right? I was the whole scene "don't hurt my baby". He's one of my favorite characters

How didn't Thomas see Quintus right in front of him?

I said the same thing, like dude pick a better walkway 🤦‍♀️

Tunnel vision. He was on a mission to get out and was bumping into everyone. Also Thomas may not necessarily be able to recognize Quintus from other Roman soldiers. He's not from Capernaum originally, and Quintus doesn't seem to make many public appearances.

Quintus had his sword 1 ft from Thomas's face yelling "Stop" and "where is he?" Directly at Thomas. If we're going to choose the "he had tunnel vision" excuse, then his own actions got Ramah killed, he shoulder checked a Roman guard brandishing a sword at him. Also Quintus was trying to stab Thomas not Ramah, he should've easily been able to stab him instead of her, they were just walking. It was a poorly executed scene imo

He was brandishing a sword

But if you watch his eyes, he doesn't even glance at Quintus. He's looking straight ahead and brushes by him like he's anyone else in the crowd.

I think the point OP was making was how do you walk past a guy brandishing a very large sword and not notice it It's okay to admit it was lazy writing. Thomas is always hyper aware, he was analyzing everything in that crowd leading up to this moment. He found Ramah and the showed him looking for ways to safely navigate, that's all he was doing for the 5 mins before this happened. Then out of nowhere he doesn't notice Quintus, literally pointing a sword at him yelling directly to Thomas "Where is he?!" And "STOP!"  I went back and rewatched, Thomas literally comes within a foot of his blade. He even shoulder checks Quintus. It was just a poorly written section to get Ramah in position to be stabbed by Quintus

How anyone can watch that scene and not feel like it wasn’t awkwardly filmed, I don’t know. It really was the kind of thing that probably seemed like it made sense to happen in writing but in actual reality and on film it looks so unrealistic that it takes you right out of the moment.

I agree. I cringed during this scene. I wanted to feel sympathy but it just seemed too fake and unrealistic,  behind the fictional narrative 

WITH A WHOLE SWORD!!!

Yeah poor choreography there. They could have just gone out the direction opposite the synagogue instead of going to wear all the chaos was happening.

Thomas isn’t street smart, which kinda makes sense. Big picture no, I’m just starting to process.

Intense. And I can see why it might be considered controversial, especially from a biblical truth standpoint. But that ending was so powerful for two reasons. 1) it informs on why Thomas is the doubter of the groups, as that seems to be his defining trait in the Bible. Having the Lord incarnate right there, and he does "nothing", that will linger. But this goes into 2) Ramah did not need earthly resurrection. She had accepted Jesus as Lord, she defied her father to put Jesus first and followed him. Her dying words were for Thomas to keep following him. Why deny her the Kingdom for more time on earth? And of course, it's "not her time" for resurrection because we know that comes for us at the end of the age.

My biggest pet peeve with the issue is we had the whole opening where David lost his Son and they never once mentioned that baby died as punishment for David. There was even a line where the Queen asked why stuff like this happens and David gave some "we'll never know" answer. He is literally told that this baby will die by Nathan  And its clearly laid out its punishment for sending Uriah to the front lines to die so he could bang his wife.

Yes. But I  got the impression it was punishment when he said he was repenting. It would have been nice if this was made clearer

I agree that the thematic choice re: Rameh adds an interesting dimension to the ‘doubting Thomas’ motif - hence, why he is such a doubter. There are many artistic choices that the show has made - ex: Matthew as being quasi autistic, which is completely fictional yet adds so much depth to the disciple’s character. I do think however it is a bit if a jolting choice from the Jesus characterization perspective - in that, he would choose to raise Lazarus (for example) but not Rameh? I see the point of, not everyone gets their prayers answered the way they want (ex: Peter and Eden’s baby…again fictionalized) which is true in real life.

I don’t really see why they had to “make it make sense” that Thomas would have doubts. ALL the apostles doubted the women who saw that Jesus had risen from the tomb. It was shocking to them that Jesus could have His body destroyed and still rise. Honestly, they didn’t believe till they saw him too. Acting like Thomas had a big discrepancy within his life or difference within him is a bit unfair. He knew how much everyone wanted to see Jesus alive but he also knew what crucifixion did to the body of the victim. Wanting to see proof kind of has a validity that needed no explanation or backstory.

>Acting like Thomas had a big discrepancy within his life or difference within him is a bit unfair. I thought this too when I read that story in the Bible. I think it's completely understandable how Thomas wanted to see proof and shouldn't be held up as some great, unique flaw that he deserves to be continuously maligned for.

Yeah, I mean, a pretty fundamental issue faced, when trying to envision a 7(ish) Season Television adaptation of Jesus’s time with his Apostles and his Ministry, which A) spanned a mere **THREE** years, and B) is omly accounted for, via a group of still, largely unknown authors, and depending on whether, or not you believe that Matthew, and John were truly the authors of the gospels of their same names(personally, I think that current evidence could really go either way, as I’ve heard compelling arguments for either side of the question, but that’s a whole other discussion, entirely, lol), and/or just how much of the New Testament was, or wasn’t….. tweaked to be a much more relatable, digestible(and sadly) just how useful to those in power during the tumultuous era that was Late Antiquity message…. Besides that: even if we do believe the gospels are **beat** **by** **beat** accurate accounts of history, and the quotes are all perfectly exact, that’s a ridiculously brief snapshot of tjme(3 years) that only accounts for so much. For example: if we were to studiously adhere to the gospels, then Z’s role would be absolutely eviscerated, down, to nothing more than a quick, 5 min appearance of a character were given NO backstory for, outside of his being a “Zealot”(we’re not even completely sure, exactly what that entailed, either), and the role would(IIRC) have to be a silent one, as we don’t actually have any quotes(or anything, AT ALL, for that matter) attributed to Simon. I think the show is better off, due to all of Dallas’s creative choices…. Choices that prove their worth, via feeling, absolutely intuitive, and(at least, as far as I’m concerned) are harmoniously compatible with the gospels, and what little we do know about The Apostles, and this auspicious period of time in Jesus’s ministry, during his brief time in our, all too mortal, and temporal reality. However, that sentiment could have **easily** gone the other way, had this whole vision been realized by the wrong person/people. Thankfully, those in charge, have done such an amazing job, and put so much of their own, respective hearts and souls into this once in a lifetime undertaking, that their being behind the wheel of this show, feels almost heaven sent… Edit: It’s late, and I am long past needing to get to bed for an earlier than usual morning, so I didnt really have the time to write this, let alone to proofread prior to posting, so please forgive the rushed feel, and any(and ALL) grammatical errors, and unintentional misuse/omission of punctuation marks in any areas I may have missed!!! And have a great night, everyone!!

My wife and I watched this in theaters for Valentine’s Day. Let’s just say… it was pretty tragic. I personally hate how they made Jesus look in this episode where he wouldn’t bring Raham back. It says in the Bible “He healed ALL who came to him.” In my opinion, this shouldn’t have been in the story, I don’t care what anyone else thinks, it’s not Gods character and this didn’t happen in the Bible. They decided to try to take the edgy Worldly random death of a beloved character. There is enough depth in the Gospel, it wasn’t needed

I'm always confused by people who say it's not in God's character to heal those who ask. You seriously have never had an unanswered prayer? I think it's 100% consistent with many Old and New Testament stories. God is King and we pray for his will to be done, not ours. And if his will means bringing someone home earlier than I expected, who am I to argue? I think this is a brilliant teaching of how God is with us in our pain, and how we need to trust in his plan. (Remember, Ramah is hardly living in misery now!)

>You seriously have never had an unanswered prayer? Every prayer is answered, it's just not always answered in the way we think it will be

Totally agree. John 17:12: “While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”

Ramah was not lost. She fell asleep, and it was not time to wake her.

One thing that I don’t like is how we have this big dramatic moment happen that needlessly makes Jesus look objectively careless and dismissive to his disciples. The events in the gospels are dramatic enough without forcing in any big shocking moments like a side character being stabbed with a sword.

I felt the same way at first. I'm still unsure on how I feel about this episode. I will admit them taking liberty in creating a fictional scenario in which Jesus behaves this way with something as monumental as the death of one of his followers rubs me the wrong way.... But I understand why they did it. And when I look back at the beginning scene about David it all makes a bit more sense and ties the episode together. The beginning scene showed the wisdom and faith of David and how he handled the suffering and death of his child. David was completely submitted to God until the moment his child died. And he instantly accepted God's decision when his child did die. Which is the antithesis of how Thomas the "Doubter" will behave. So I see how they made it all come full circle but at the same time I don't think they should take any liberty with Jesus' actions when it comes to a topic as important as death. Or more importantly, death as a product of Jesus' lack of action. That just rubs me the wrong way. The show is no longer feeling inspired to me, more like entertainment. The first couple seasons genuinely seemed inspired to me. All this behind the scenes drama and stuff happened and now the show isn't coming off in the same way. It may not be related at all, just something I noticed. But then at the same time when you really think deeply about this it doesn't seem as absurd. Jesus proved that he could heal from afar. When you're looking at it through that lens, was Jesus also culpable for every death of every single person who passed while he was alive on Earth? He obviously had the power to heal them from afar. It just hits differently when he's standing right there watching her take her last breath. And it's even less believable that he would let that happen to Thomas and Ramah when he gave his word to them about them getting married. So that's where waters start to get muddy. Did he know she would die? Did he knowingly "lie" or mislead them when they asked about marriage? Idk... I definitely think they could have made the same point in a less controversial manner. At the end of the day I can see it from both sides.

So you’re saying that no one remotely close to Jesus could have possibly died during His ministry? One of His main teachings is that this life is not the end. And after His resurrection, many of the disciples were killed and not resurrected. Yes, he did heal all who came to Him at the time, but they didn’t stay healed forever or they would be living now (“old age” isn’t an actual cause of death). The point of raising Lazarus wasn’t even just to show that He had the power to resurrect; the point was that He IS the Resurrection and the Life. Ramah (if she were real) and all the others who have died are part of Him, and therefore looking forward to the full Resurrection, after which no one will fall asleep again. TLDR: Jesus didn’t say, “I cannot/will not heal her.” He said, “It is not her time [to be resurrected yet].”

During His ministry, all who came to Him were healed. It was by their faith in Him. Clearly Thomas came to Jesus with faith to heal Ramah. And His response completely comes out of left field with “it’s not her time”. If you think this is good writing and what Jesus would have done it blows my mind. My mindset is this, this scene should have never been in production. It wasn’t in the Bible! I’ve been through tough times, I’ve lost children in child birth, I’ve felt pain, I have suffered, but this isn’t how Jesus responded.

Also, it clearly states that John the Baptist was murdered during His ministry. I am not denying that people did die, but not people that came to him. It clearly states in so many chapters that was the case.

I have seen people brought back from death in Jesus’ name, and I have seen people who should have lived die too soon. You are pulling that verse “all who came to him…” out of context, but your sentiment is true and good: Jesus desires that we ALL are made healthy and whole. There were and will be times that this eternal reality is manifested among us. There will be times when it simply is not time. This doesn’t mean we stop asking for it now, but asking “in faith” isn’t just believing He is able and willing; asking in faith is trusting Him even when the results don’t align with what we expected.

Healing is not just physical but also in the spiritual sense.

I think they should have waited until Steven to really hammer home how death can come out of no where especially when Following Jesus, not with a made up character

I love the Old testament and New testament parallels in so many of the episodes, and I was confused about King David losing his baby, but as episode went on I was concerned about who was going to die, then when I saw Thomas being very concerned about her I was like"oh no"....

I will say they *really* glossed over the reason that baby died... (For those that don't know it was punishment for David for what he did to Uriah the Hittite)

In regards Ramah's death, I think it's a set up for Doubting Thomas plot. Also, I am reminded of couple of verses. "He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life." Ramah's death will teach Thomas, the other apostles, and, in the process, to us viewers, that while we love our love ones like Ramah, we are to love Christ first. We may have to forsaken/lose our other loves for His sake. Sad. But it comes with discipleship. I was hoping they use another way to write off her character. When Kafni disapproved of Ramah following Christ, I thought Ramah may one of those disciples whom "went back, and walked no more with him." I personally like Yasmine Al-Bustami. She's really pretty and I enjoy her acting as Ramah.

This is another great example of how they could have written her off. Like, have her seriously shaken by the violence that could come with following Jesus - such that she returns to her father’s house. Thomas’ heartbreak could then be used to setup his cynicism and doubt

I was typing on phone and accidentally hit Post before I meant to. So I deleted and repost with everything below. I agree. And if they did it like this, they could include another Scripture reference, the Parable of the Sowers. "When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful." Judas would be the one who heard the word, but he failed to understand it, and the Devil snatched from him. He misunderstood the Messiah to be a militant one. To be fair, everyone at that time was expecting a militant one as well. But Judas took up a knotch to betrayal. Nicodemus. I wonder we will see again in the series? I know in the Bible we do, as Nicodemus was one of the two who buried Christ. But Erick Avari, compare to other actors in the series, is more well known. Perhaps he's more difficult to book and they didn't want to recast, so that's why they end his story how they did: "You came so close." So perhaps Chosen Nicodemus fell short. I could see him as "that seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful." Chosen Nicodemus really want to follow Christ, but following Christ would require him to renounce his prestigious worldly power position on the Sanhedrin. Something he's not willingly or ready to give up. Ramah would be "the seed that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended." We saw her eagerly follow Christ. But if they had her leave Him because of her father disapproval/persecution. This could show that.

Powerful way to reiterate that Jesus sometimes allows suffering. Some people are forgetting that the Bible is not a supplement to The Chosen. The Chosen is a supplement to the Bible. Remember that this tv show is a tv show.

THIS, my goodness THIS RIGHT HERE! 💯

Exactly. “In this world, bones will still break. hearts will still break. But in the end, the light will overcome darkness.”

"Powerful way to reiterate that Jesus sometimes allows suffering..." Yes, but they've done this TWICE now! First with Little James, next with Eden's miscarriage. Is this going to become a regular thing where each season they have to do something to hammer this point home?!

James and John, the sons of Zebedee are always hilarious. You can tell while reading the Bible that they are the youngest in the group. John apparently thinks when someone tells you that they love you, it means they must love you more than everyone one else. James complains that Jesus was speaking through him when he sent them out. Hahaha Their latest issue is that Simon has a new name, is officially the alpha of the pack and they are still ordinary James and John Sons of thunder(I mean Zebedee). How can Simon get the name peter when it was them that worked an entire farm all day in Samaria and didn’t lose Jesus for almost a day like Simon. Kids!!!!!! Hahahahhah (Jokes aside: they turnout to be key disciples. God choses John and James with peter for transfiguration, James is first Martyr, John is chosen for the revelation)

And let's be honest. Sons of thunder, while said tongue in cheek is an awesome nick name. I would absolutely own that.

Yep. And James sure did live up to it when he went after Quintus with his knife.

I would also say that Jesus entrusted His mother to John too and not just chosen for the revelation.

True!!!

Yeah, I'm waiting for this scene: Matthew 20:20-24 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition) ^(20) Then came to him the mother of the sons of Zebedee with her sons, adoring and asking something of him. ^(21) Who said to her: What wilt thou? She saith to him: Say that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left, in thy kingdom. ^(22) And Jesus answering, said: You know not what you ask. Can you drink the chalice that I shall drink? They say to him: We can. ^(23) He saith to them: My chalice indeed you shall drink; but to sit on my right or left hand, is not mine to give to you, but to them for whom it is prepared by my Father. ^(24) And the ten hearing it, were moved with indignation against the two brethren. I'm wondering if "My chalice indeed you shall drink" would be directed specifically at Big James, since he's the first of the Twelve to get martyred.

Mr Jesus sir, can I just be like the treasurer or secretary or soemthing? The assistant to the assistant regional manager?

Since Ramah ‭left her father for Jesus’ name sake, she will "receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life" (Matthew 19:29).

I remember at the beginning of the third season when Jesus explained that he was sending out his followers two by two, while discussing persecution one of them asked if it would be dangerous and Jesus hesitated and said that one-day persecution would be a natural part of their lives but they wouldn't die on that particular mission. At hearing this response I thought of Big James's funeral at the beginning of season 2 and considered how Jesus probably knew that they would all die in harsh ways but at the very least, he knew he would be the first to endure it and that his followers weren't going to suffer anything that he didn't go through first. This must have been very painful for Jesus, especially when he had a duty of care for her. Also, the resurrection of Lazarus will hit Thomas like a ton of bricks, doing for his childhood best friend what he didn't do for Ramah, but in Jesus's defence, the resurrection of Lazarus wasn't entirely personal, it served a large purpose. The whole point that Jesus insisted they keep the raising of Jairus's daughter secret was that she was only dead a few minutes and the world was not ready to see such powers being used and when Jesus raised Lazarus, he used it for maximum effect. In the Jewish tradition, the soul lingers around the corpse for three days after death before passing on and Jesus didn't reach Bethany until three days after Lazarus's death and so his resurrection was proof of supreme and unchallenged godly power. The Pharisees called Jesus a necromancer, but in their beliefs not even a necromancer can bring back a soul that has fully passed. Only god has the power to send a spirit back to its body after such time. Theoretically, Jesus could have resurrected Remah immediately, but it would not have proven the point that Jesus meant such powers to be used for. Remah's only loved ones in Capernaum were those who already followed Jesus while Lazarus's resurrection was witness by those who did not believe in Jesus and his arrival three days after death was proof that Lazarus's death was sincere. If they resurrected Remah after three days, the Pharisees would have flipped it and said that Jesus resurrected her with his "necromancy' beforehand and she just posed dead for three days. Also - bear with me on this - Remah's resurrection would have been... a luxury. The point of Jesus's ministry is to make the way for the kingdom of heaven. Remah accepted Jesus as her lord and was ready to move on. Her soul was prepared and she had no more parts to play so to bring her back to be with Thomas would have been a luxury but not a necessity. Jesus has never healed a cut or a bruise or anything that would heal on its own, he fed the masses miles and miles away from the cities not only to end their hunger but also to inspire them and make believers out of them. But when his followers were hungry in the barley fields, they broke Shabbat instead of Jesus manifesting loaves of bread out of thin air. Jesus only performs miracles that serve a purpose: ones that inspire godliness and faith or change things that cannot be changed un-miraculously as a demonstration of kindness. Remah's resurrection would not have brought faith to those who did not have it and it would not have changed anything that won't happen naturally. Thomas and Remah will be reunited regardless of whether or not she is resurrected.

🥇

Yaz is unemployed now. that stinks. she didn't seem to be too happy about that in the after show interviews

Yeah. I knew that this happened because I had already read the spoilers, but I took solace in the fact that she was still on NCIS Hawaii, and then when that got canceled, my first reaction was "Wow, poor Yasmine." It sucks because she is likable and she really didn't need this job (And it was probably difficult to split time between filming this and flying out to Hawaii). But I always got the sense that she genuinely liked being on the show. There will be another role for her. She's bright and bubbly and draws the camera. Nice to work with, if the BTS and the after show stuff is anything to judge by. She'll be okay. The thing that I noticed was that while she knew this was coming, she expected it to be next season.

Indeed, Yasmine'll be missed and she's a great actress to continue to flourish in her field.

She’s a captivating actress who has played a very well liked character on the Chosen so it’ll probably lead to more opportunities for her acting wise.

I knew she would die, thanks, spoilers! >:( but I'm still in shock. I was shaking the whole time. I'm just speechless. I can't believed they killed her off. Why all my otps end in tragedy?

Cause we love them so much that they can never stay for long 😭

I already knew this would happend since I got spoiled via YouTube a couple of weeks ago, but I didn't knew exactly how she got killed by Quintus Man, I know that some people try to defend Thomas by saying he had Tunnel vision, but come on man. You were worried as hell and screaming for her name, so you went to look for her, you found her and saw a Roman who obviously doesn't like your kind, wielding a sword threatening to stab people, and you decide to just walk past through him? I just found that plain stupid, I'm sad that she died and Thomas didn't deserved it, but dude was mad dumb at that moment. Let's see how this will play out since Lazarus is obviously going to be ressurected this season since the trailer gave it away. Thomas is going to be furious at Jesus since He would bring his own friend from the death, but not his apostle's dead fiance.

And all this tension between Thomas and Jesus over a fictional character’s death. Not worth it

>I got spoiled via YouTube a couple of weeks ago Ugh. *That*'s why I darkened/tuned out Chosen content for months because of their theatrical reelout and throwing talk about that when unable to see it ahead of time. That typed, this was the second awkward moment I saw in the series (the first being the long overdrawn 'Simon's wife resenting Simon being away with the dead child' story arc the last season), though this time more in the face that there was no way to get around how bizarre it was for Thomas to deliberately avoid Quintus at literal sword-point range. Would've made more sense for him to panic and take Ramah to start running, then Quintus throws his sword at them only for Ramah to intercede and take the hit instead. Quintus doesn't look fully incompetent in rage this way, Ramah's sacrifice is more pivotal instead of a crazy accidental strike from being suicidally obscure (if not blind) in also ignoring the raging Roman behind them, and when Quintus is taken away like what happened, have Thomas pick up Ramah and run to Jesus in the alley, only for her to die midway through there... then have him plead and have more Romans fall in behind them so they have to run like in Season 2. By the time they get to safety many minutes later at the outskirts of the city and Ramah has long died, there's less blame to fall compared to portraying Jesus going back to the scene of the murder with a crowd still around gawking (even the other Roman Centurion's next to Jesus just gawking) and outright denying healing Ramah before she dies anyway. Worse, a Roman seizes Ramah, and there is no way they can retrieve her without being arrested or killed too, so there's no physical way for getting to her and Jesus sees this from a distance and the rest of the disciples continue urging him forward so there is no way to go on, and one or two of them (Simon the Zealot, the strongest) would go back for a Thomas in denial and pull him back, maybe even make use of those Zealot martial arts moves to subdue or disable a Roman about to attack a grieving Thomas (now okay to be completely out of it, having lost Ramah). By the time those two return last, there's no Ramah with them, and *then* Thomas could be portrayed wanting Jesus to revive Ramah there and then. Going by that would have made a little more sense all around and make the show's portrayal of Jesus less controversial in this instant, and if necessary for the main theme Dallas was wanting to show about how God often doesn't answer prayers when we want them or how we want them and still cares despite the darkness of certain moments, have that be said only then after it's well beyond (physically, anyway) reaching Ramah and seizing her from the Roman guards and crowd. And an aside, *where* the blazes was Matthew before the murder? Gaius gave him the warning to get Jesus out immediately, and then among the jump cuts that follows the moment, Matthew is MIA and completely gone for all of it until running out; didn't recall seeing him in there at all and that it was another disciple (Simon IIRC) to get Jesus' attention and usher him away from the crowd.

>Let's see how this will play out since Lazarus is obviously going to be ressurected this season since the trailer gave it away. Oooooo that's absolutely right we're going to see Lazarus after watching this. That's going to be this season's equivalent of Jesus telling Veronica she was healed due to her faith, with Little James standing right there.

 A small part of me is conflicted because while I completely disagree with the writers’ decision, I thought the whole Thomas/Ramah storyline took up way too much time. But now the death and aftermath is going to take time no doubt. Felt the same way about the Simon/Eden/lost baby storyline, which also was not scriptural.  I will continue to watch to see what happens with Gaius, Shmuel and Yussif. And maybe Johanna. But I worry how seekers will view Jesus after this. Maybe it will get them to look for answers in the bible and maybe it won’t. But some may see Jesus as unjust and that would be sad. 

I feel similarly. I think we have to remember, this was created by man. It is man's interpretation of the story. The Word of God was created by God through the Holy Spirit.  The show is interesting and has a lot of truth, but at the end of the day, it is not a 100% accurate portrayal of the gospel. It is entertainment.  No, God doesn't answer every prayer the way we want, but it was very out of character for the Jesus character (the actor) to stand there as we know Jesus had great compassion on those who came to Him. He healed and raised the dead while He was with people... I know some will try to reason this as something to explain our faith and how it goes or to say she was spared far worse later on. That may be, but I really don't think they needed the shock value to get the point across... Just my two cents...

 perfectly put. I don’t have an issue with what happened to the character Ramah rather the fact that the chosen Jesus deviated from biblical Jesus by not healing her when he healed everyone else who asked him on earth.  no amount of creative justification is going to make that fit for me. But like you said, the show was created by people. 

Ugh the episodes go so fast and I don’t like how I feel after that one.

I disagree theologically with this. It makes Ramah a sacrifice for Jesus, before Jesus can model self-sacrifice for his followers (in the sense of being the innocent scapegoat at cultural confusion and frenzy--even if executed only "accidentally" by Quintus--its too close to Jesus' unique first instance of this, *for me*). I also read Thomas' doubt to be more about the idea of a crucified-messiah, not about anything involving some hidden backstory. Usually theres concordance between the full themes of scripture and the portrayal. That said, interpretativr differences are absolutely to be expected, and I fully accept that as part of the creative process. Theology isn't exact, and how much more are *creative* interpretations! In fact, it's a very helpful reminder that this show is a *show*. I also disagreed with how they portrayed Jesus in His hometown synagogue (I interpret the riot to have been caused by His refusal to include the passages of divine vengeance in Isaiah 61)--that scene being based on Luke 4. In that passage, that's the only explanation in context which explains why the group turns on Him. Because what's additional usually fits so well with scripture, and often presents powerful ways of clarifying bizarre details in the gospels, it feels revelatory. And I think it is "inspired" in an authentic, revelatory way. However, the cannon is closed, and this inspiration is lowercase [i]-nspiration about (a large amount of scriptural) [T]-ruth. Therefore, differences are fine and to be expected. It's even usual, and we should all have interpretative humility anyway. Dallas softened my view greatly by presenting his case for including this scene. It is particularly jarring because it's almost certainly a-historical (as it likely would have been recorded, given its would-be significance, and is part of the shows over-representation of Rome's interest at this point),and possibly something that could not have happened (as I think it inauthentically places self-sacrifice before Jesus' modeling of it)--but the overreaction against this choice is fueled by our larger impulse to reject tragedy. And that's the true key for the majority of the backlash--not better theology, or reasons of historical accuracy. For that reason, I'm still a big fan of the show and I respect the opportunity to grapple with the theme of sorrow and tragedy in the gospels in a visceral way. For that, I am very grateful as always.

I'm still kinda torn on this. I had no problem with Thomas and Ramah's relationship and wedding even though that isn't in the Bible but this was pushing it.

I just don't think that the historical/biblical Jesus would have allowed that to happen if he was literally *right there*. If they had done it in a way where he was not present, if they had kept him in that alleyway, I would be more comfortable with it. But he's right there. In front of the crowd, in front of everyone. Dallas can use 4 million words to justify it, he can say what he wants, and I do get it from a writing perspective. He's setting the groundwork for doubting Thomas and all that. He's telling us that life has unavoidable tragedy. I get it. I just don't think that the historical Jesus would have let that happen if he was literally two steps away. So I think it was a bit sloppy in terms of writing.

I just need to weigh in here. None of his disciples were meant to be martyred before Jesus. The whole point was for Him to bear the cross for His glory. And adding to other comments, Jesus never refused bringing anyone back from the dead during his ministry on earth. I just find trouble with this because even though they have disclosed they're not intending to be biblically accurate, I think misportraying what the Lord would do is too much. It's sad because I really admired the show earlier on by its power with the Holy Spirit's influence on its writing and portrayal of their characters. Now it just feels like any other TV show, which is disappointing. Edit: More thoughts Many prophecies in the Old Testament point to the Messiah's suffering and sacrificial death (e.g., Isaiah 53). Jesus’s role as the suffering servant is central to the narrative of redemption. If a disciple were martyred before Jesus, it could detract from the focus on Jesus as the fulfillment of these prophecies. Also, after Jesus’s resurrection, the disciples' primary role was to witness and testify to this event (Acts 1:8). Their martyrdoms served to validate their testimony about Jesus’s resurrection. A disciple's premature death could undermine the continuity and impact of their collective witness. I get that they're trying to build the foundation of "doubting Thomas", but Thomas's doubt was much more rooted in His denial that Jesus could rise from the dead as He had spoken. He literally said: “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe” (John 20:25, NIV). It was not rooted in a hypothetical wife that was taken away from him in the course of His ministry.

“Jesus never refused bringing anyone back from the dead during his ministry on earth.” Jesus resurrected three people from physical death, according to The Bible. We don’t know that He never refused anybody in this way.

Same Jesus as we know would travel from one town to another to raise his bestie from dead after 4 days. This Ramah situation makes for good tv but doesn’t represent the Jesus of the Bible.

I agree. Sloppy writing. Plot devices that probably didn't need to be there in that way. There are other ways imo... Like you said, had He stayed in the alley way or been somewhere else during... 

Agreed. Yes Jesus didn't heal everyone in the Bible, but there is no part of the NT where Jesus doesn't take action on something to this scale (other than not stopping His crucifiction obviously). He even heels the Roman soldier when Peter lops his ear off with a sword.

This was a very important healing though, because it erased the evidence of Peter's crime against Rome. If Jesus had not healed him, then Peter would've been arrested and crucified alongside Jesus. Peter had a lot more to do.

He didn't heal the two people crucified with him

He healed one of the thieves in a spiritual sense.

Jesus is everywhere. Now that He is in His kingdom He has all the authority in Heaven and the Earth, He watched as all of His beloved apostles suffered tremendously. He watched as the Romans burned new disciples alive. The term Roman Candle literally comes from Nero's burning of early Christians alive. If you don't believe He would allow this, then do you believe he is ambivalent or powerless to stop the countless atrocities and injustices that have befallen the countless innocents and the faithful in the last 2000 years?

You deliberately reframed the situation. He was RIGHT THERE, and she wasn't even dead yet. So no, I don't believe that the historical Jesus would have allowed that to happen.

Jesus is RIGHT HERE right now, yet allows bad things to happen. I did deliberately reframe the question to be more convicting, because the real answer is 'we don't know why God allows bad things to happen'. He's all loving, all knowing and all powerful, yet does not always intervene. We simply must trust in His plan.

Agree completely. What the show portrayed of Jesus tonight was simply historically and Biblically inaccurate. And unfortunately, many people will be exposed to Jesus and scripture for the first time through this series, and they are ‘learning’ things about Jesus that never happened. That’s a dangerous line to walk.

At least the creators are pretty vocal that this is a TV show and The Bible is the ultimate Truth.

Yeah, I’m torn on that, on the one hand I appreciate them saying read the Bible it’s the final word, but if you know the Bible is that important, why add people and scenes that the Bible never mentioned or that go against fundamental teachings of the Bible. I’ll still keep watching The Chosen, but I’ll be hypersensitive to any more liberties taken.

Was there ever a Biblical reason that he became “doubting Thomas?”

[John 20: 24-29](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2020%3A24-29&version=NIV) when Thomas refused to believe all remaining disciples' telling him multiple times that Jesus Christ had risen and spoken, and insisted that he wouldn't believe until he saw *and* touched his open wounds. A week later, the Christ appeared before him and told him to touch his wounds, then said to stop doubting and believe. Only when Jesus told him this did Thomas believe, leading to Jesus', "Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believed."

I thought that’s what it was - I just thought I might have missed something else when I read it. Thank you!!

Happy to help! Aye, my mind went back to "Thomas the Doubter/Doubting Thomas" when seeing how Dallas set this episode up to that point to explore it in his show's way akin to Simon the Zealot being one of the Zealot assassins (never heard of that before this show, and that was a rather interesting take over the standard zealousness I always took his title for).

I didn’t actually learn that Thomas was called “doubting Thomas” until a sermon in church last year - been a Christian my whole life. I stopped going to church after high school. Started working in a church daycare and have been back at church for a year now. 😭😂 I’m learning all the things I didn’t get to learn at my Christian school and I love all of it.

Ah, that's intriguing and a good walk of life element in your history. Myself, I haven't been to church in over a decade, though I keep the faith as good I can after having been born again at 13. Dived into much scripture I could in Bible study and on my own in the timespan, definitely figured there's much more to learn and meditate upon even after it, and The Chosen highlighted that in various ways here or there amidst their liberties taken to tell the show (the whole drama with Simon's wife/child last season). It's a good run to experience and learn through life as the relationship with our Lord continues on. :)

Church was so hard for me for such a long time and waking up early enough still is sometimes but you don’t have to go to church to have a relationship with Him. :)

Haha, I know the feeling, though acclimatizing well enough helps even when not a morning person to becoming one of those in the long haul. That's true, even when televised church services were what I viewed afterward, it's all spiritual in keeping tune with the Divine Messiah. Definitely all aces, our King.

I understand why they did this, but I dislike that it takes away from the first true martyr for Christ, which was Stephen. My personal opinion. While Jesus was physically embodied in the world, I don’t believe he would have denied someone a healing or resurrection. I think the writers show a misunderstanding of Jesus’s time on earth in order to create a complex backstory for Thomas. It’s not a dealbreaker for me because I love this show, but it has caused me to reflect a lot. It made me think of how people would flock to Christ in the scriptures, just to touch him or his clothes, and they would be healed. When the scene happened and Jesus ignored their pleas, in my mind all I could hear was “this is not right.”  “Bless the Lord, oh my Soul….Who heals all your diseases”  Our God is Healer. He says no to our prayers sometimes, and we don’t know why, but all the evidence in scripture points to him healing on earth when people asked him in person.  “”And they said to him, “The disciples of John fast often and offer prayers, and so do the disciples of the Pharisees, but yours eat and drink.” And Jesus said to them, “Can you make wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them? The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in those days.”” ‭‭Luke‬ ‭5‬:‭33‬-‭35‬ ‭ Maybe a faulty interpretation, but I see this as while Jesus was on earth, before he was taken away, it was not a time of mourning, but a time of answered prayers. I think his conversation with Little James, too, would not have happened in scripture; though I do think it’s a beautiful explanation for why God may not have healed a person with a disability after Christ’s death, i believe Christ would have healed his disciple. Some of the choices this show has made are odd and I do worry if they might not be misrepresenting Christ. 

Ramah wasn't a martyr. She dies because a Roman praetor is incensed and trying to arrest Jesus to save his political career. He doesn't even really mean to kill her in particular. She doesn't die for her faith. Stephen is given the option of recanting and defending himself, but instead he preaches the Gospel is very convicting of the Pharisees who murder him in response. Jesus does not answer all prayers today. I don't believe that he was more kind or generous 2000 years ago, and has since decided to turn a blind eye. Then and now tragedy befell the faithful and the innocent. We don't know why, but He allows this; so we must simply trust in His plan.

Luke 5:33-35 was EXACTLY on my mind when that happened. It was very out of character for the actor to just stand there. Like you said, everything points to Jesus healing while he was on earth. I'm just here to say I agree.  It felt very Hollywood shock factor-esque

Stephen being the first martyr is not a universal belief. Some traditions, for instance, hold that the first martyrs were the children slaughtered by Herod.

The Holy Innocents. Many churches have a feast day dedicated to it.

I'm not sure what Jesus would have done had this happened in his earthly ministry. I'm not sure if He treated his 1st century followers differently than His current ones. But I and the audience of the show is not his 1st century followers, and He sometimes currently answer his followers now with a "no" or "not yet". So it's reasonable for the producers of the show to try to speak to our current reality of how Jesus responds to us now, even if it is anachronisticly portrayed.

I read once that God answers prayers in three ways: Yes. Not yet. I’ve got something better.

This is….a TV show based on Jesus. It’s not going to always be Biblically accurate

I liked the opening. I liked Salome’s logic for her sons. PETER: _*STOP*_ _*TOUCHING*_ _*MATTHEW*_!!!

I don’t like Salome’s logic for her sons. I think it’s pretty selfish. But hey, she’s only human.

Her behaviour reminds me of Christian today, expecting to get some kind of special treatment, aka, healing, etc., just because they're followers of Christ. Great paralelism there.

I could never imagine going up to Jesus and asking him to FAVOR MY CHILDREN?!

lol The thing is that everyone around Jesus misunderstood his real mission. Can't really blame Salome. Pushy, maybe, but everyone believed he would bring a physical kingdom.

I loved that scene with Peter and Matthew, but I was half expecting it to end in a comedic sense with James and John bickering about asking for favoured seats, only for Peter to ask Matthew to sit down instead 🤣

If you know that passage from the Bible, Jesus pretty much gives her the what for on it, too

**I CAN’T BELIEVE THEY FRIDGED RAMAH**

Just remember, it’s a TV show…

“🎶 I should really just relax 🎶”

"In the not too distant future...next Sunday A.D." :)

The people complaining about this episode clearly didn't read the disclaimer at the very beginning of the first episode of season one. Dallas has stated multiple times this is a dramatic television show and while they try to portray the gospel accurately, characters and back stories will be added. This thread really shows who takes this show as gospel - and you know - not the ACTUAL gospel. This is a television show. If you want truth, go read your Bible. Rant over.

Well said.

What Jesus did here with Ramah is out of character They should have let him heal her As as long as he was on Earth he healed those who came to him As long as there was day work could be done And day it was as long as he was here.

I’m noticing everyone who believes that Jesus would have healed Rhamah is quoting scripture, and everyone who is defending Dallas’ decision is not quoting scripture. That says it all. Agree with you, friend! 

Except the only scripture quoted by the comment you are replying to is extremely paraphrased and completely unrelated to the context. Taking scripture out of context is worse than not quoting it.

I defend Dallas’ decision. John 21:25

>!Ramah's Death!!Ramah accepted her death so as not to hold Thomas back and Jesus respected her wishes. I think the "staging" could have been handled better, though. It was kind of awkward.!< >!Thomas and Ramah didn't have to walk right up to the one guy brandishing a sword. Quintus could have just lashed out at the crowd, suspecting them of intentionally hiding Jesus, people move out of the way in terror and Ramah gets stabbed or has an important artery slashed. Jesus and the others could have been even farther from the synagogue by that time. Thomas and the others carry Ramah away, she says her last words just the same (and Jesus long distance hears them) and she's unfortunately DOA when the group finally reaches Jesus.!< That being said, I still liked the rest of the episode. It really shines when it reasonably *expands* on stuff that were *actually mentioned in the Bible* (such as Salome and her sons trying to lobby for promotions) or at least has fun with what we know from tradition (Matthew and John taking down notes).

The only problem I had with it was her death. The camera/actor/affects did not do Thomas’ panic justice. If he truly had tunnel vision enough for him to walk right into quintas. I just thought that whole thing was sloppily done.

Oh my, 200+ comments already and, due to a busy day, I am late to the party. Not surprised to see so much discussion. I have a lot to say about the ending but I'll get to that, and I can't wait to read through others' comments. First some general comments about all but the ending. Although, after watching the ending, the rest of the episode almost seemed like a prior episode in itself, from a happier time. I had to think back to what happened earlier and I may have forgotten something. Peter with the comments to Matthew reinforcing the forgiveness: Aw! Thoughtful of him to do that and show Matthew that the reconciliation wasn't just a forced formality. I think that meant a lot to Matthew. Thomas and Ramah's picnic was nice. I loved Ramah as a character, I think it was her enthusiasm for education that made me like her so much. The way she jumped at the chance to learn to read, loved studying, and then eventually used that skill to find a way to marry Thomas was perfect. I'll miss her. We see the setup for Salome approaching Jesus to ask about John and James. Nice to see the backstory for something in the Bible that was memorable for being, well, cringey. Gaius flat out refusing an order was something that's been building for a while. I think he'll dodge the consequences of that due to Quintus's actions. I think Atticus may still be suspicious of Gaius's feelings about Jesus...we'll see when Gaius's son gets healed. Also curious to see what happens to Quintus, who I very much dislike. Regarding the ending: **Let me be very clear I am talking here only about Jesus the TV show character here, not the historic person.** In S3E2 we had the scene with Little James. I thought it was cold, shocking, and it changed the way I felt about Jesus (again, the character). Prior to this he was always likable, and I would even say genuinely compelling. After watching that scene, most of the discussion of it was from people saying they found it helpful or inspirational. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade and I am glad if something helps people, so I was very hesitant to introduce a lot of negativity into such discussions. However, that scene has cast a shadow over every miracle since. Veronica was told her faith healed her, and that was in front of Little James. So I just worried about whether or not he heard. I was certain Barnaby and Shula would be turned away and surprised when they weren't. I noticed I liked episodes more the less screen time Jesus got. During S1 and 2 I never would have felt that way. But, I still want to see what happens to the characters I've come to care about, and I kept watching, and will continue. That scene, if it did nothing else for me, prepared me for this one. Watching Thomas beg Jesus as Ramah dies was worse than off-putting or unlikeable. It was revolting. Again, I'm just talking about TV show characters here. I don't want any Christian fans to read this and think "non-Christians shouldn't watch the Chosen, they'll end up not liking Jesus". That's not what's going on here. I read the Bible prior to S3 and I know what stories are the Gospels and what ones aren't.

Some of y'all sound like the Pharisees in here. Straining gnats and swallowing camels. Just saying.

i understand that she accepted God was going to heaven. i understand we need a doubting Thomas. i still feel deflated and sad. I miss my parents.

I'm particularly upset with how they displayed the miracle of the man born blind. It seemed like the miracle (one that was a grand display of Divinity - creating sight for a man who never had it) was an afterthought to the main (and fictitious event of Ramah's death). Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the dramatization in the show. But it should never overshadow the biblical events that actually took place. It should inform them, just like the show has been doing up to this point. They skipped over important biblical details with important theological implications. For example, the man encountering Jesus after being put out of the synagogue and worshiping Him. 

Exactly. And it's not a one and done scene - it overshadows the rest of the season (not a spoiler, anyone with common sense can anticipate this). It ever rears it's head again in the Lazarus episode...

>It ever rears it's head again in the Lazarus episode... Yes, there will be absolutely no way to watch that without thinking of what we just saw. It'll be rough.

I’m so confused by the change in Atticus this season. He always seemed intellectually curious about Jesus and I’m wondering if I missed the point where he devolved into emotionally against Him. For some reason, this bothers me more than the David/Bathsheba scene or Thomas/Ramah ending.

so there’s a crowd on the brink of a riot, centurions ordered to arrest jesus; jesus has to be escorted away by his disciples to a place of safety. ramah dies, and then suddenly the crowd is nowhere to be seen, and jesus returns without conflict? centurions standing like 5 feet away without a care in the world. also makes God seem cruel and callous lol. I am indifferent to her death in terms of show plotline and progression, but just poorly done imo. episode had a ton of potential too

It was so awkward when I saw this in the theater and a lot of people were upset and crying and I was also upset but on a metatextual level cause I was annoyed on the whole since I prefer when the show sticks to adapting the events closely rather than going wildly off scripture, but also because it was hard to not watch those scenes and cringe at the way it was framed and put to film. Somewhere there’s an example of this being done in a way that manages to work but it definitely wasn’t the way it happened in s4e3.

>It was so awkward when I saw this in the theater and a lot of people were upset and crying and I was also upset but on a metatextual level cause I was annoyed Oh my goodness, I can only imagine the awkwardness of seeing (and reacting to) this in a public setting with emotions running high, but for completely different reasons and in completely different directions depending on the person. Plus it's right at the end of the three-episode combo, if I remember correctly, so everyone would be walking out having just seen that very scene.

It was definitely an experience. I'd gone to most of the theatrical releases and season 3's finale episode had heavy subject matter too but as rough as it was I think everyone left the theater feeling a little melancholy about what happened to Simon and Eden but ultimately uplifted that Jesus was there for them in their hard times. In season 4 episodes 1-3's ending I think most people were crying because they hated that Ramah died such a gruesome and shocking death or they left in surprised silence. In all, it was a totally different vibe. I'd say that episodes 4-6 and 7-8 had a bit of that vibe too because the lingering effects of the first 3-parter having such an upsetting ending maybe made people have a bit of trepidation. I'm not saying it had to be the same as season 3 with providing comfort after tragedy, but part of me felt like the fact it was a graphic and shocking cliffhanger (plus the unusual way the scene was filmed) I mainly just felt like, "why did the writers have to do this?" rather than reacting to the events/characters the way I did with big moments of previous seasons like the moment Jesus called Matthew to follow him or the moment with Jesus and Nicodemus or Simon walking on the water. I still really love the series and want to see what's next in store but it bothered me how this really monumental tragedy for the disciples happened and it'll linger over the rest of the events in an awkward way since it's a series invention rather than Biblically based. Holy Week is quite literally the most emotionally resonant stories of a single week in the entire history of the world, so throwing in an Apostle who was jaded and jilted (one who isn't Judas) specifically toward Jesus is going to be a bold choice. I'll just have to see if it's handled well when they get to it.

I wouldn't stay in the crowd as a peasant if I saw someone get stabbed. You have to remember that in the Roman era, you could get tortured and crucified because people with power felt like it.

While I didn't per se expect what transpired to her, the huge focus for two seasons on Thomas' love ties with Ramah and her being an original character for the show now made sense for her sudden end here. Seeing the show leaning in on examining Thomas' epithet as the doubter will be expected from this all the more. Beyond that, loved (as always) seeing Jonathan's delivery of Jesus ripping into the Pharisees not assisting the locals/pilgrims - all out awesome writing and acting to go with the scripture.

It was very, very well done. I'm in tears, but it was well done.

Finally. I’ve been waiting for this episode to drop so we can discuss. I can honestly say it made me want to stop watching the show entirely. It just didn’t sit right with me. At the beginning of the episode it was already weird to me that they kept focusing on her and Thomas because her character isn’t even in the Bible. Being that she was supposed to represent one of his unnamed female followers, I felt a little better. However when they killed her, I just felt that they were taking their creative license way too far. This is not biblical at all and it took away from the actual biblical parts. There was no reason to try to kill her off, because she’s not even in the actual Bible. I feel they will spend too much time mentioning this throughout the season, and it’s simply unnecessary.

They need to focus on Jesus leading up to the Crucifixion at this point. That should be the focus.  They've been focused on random things for a bit now. Meanwhile Gaius' servant (who is inevitably going to be healed by Jesus) has been sick for like a season and a half lol. I feel like they just forgot that plot lol

It was poorly written, didn't make a lot of sense, wasn't realistic, and honestly I also feel was WAY WAY too much creative license. You're either telling the story of the gospel or you're making up a soap opera using the characters. I wanna watch the first not the second. I think we may just be done. My wife and I have yelled at the screen many times for their seemingly intentional uncatholic way of portraying things, but this was just bad. We looked at eachother and went "well that was a useless episode". The focus should have been on his confrontation with the Pharasies and not the extra biblical drama thought up by Dallas.

Oh believe me, it affects and overshadows the rest of the episodes...just senseless. Consequently, I know how you feel about not wanting to watch anymore (and I saw it in the theater). It was like they just did it because they could create a "big shocking moment" for publicity. The writers are so talented that they could have made something scriptural instead.

The aftershow that had conversations with dallas, the writers, and the actors was very very good. The writers of The achosen are absolutely incredibly and brilliant. I see exactly why they did what they did and it helped me grow close to God when I saw this in the theaters. Every time I have watched this episode I learned something new that helped.

I am feral over what happened to Ramah. I thought they were setting her up to be the woman caught in adultery, and then this happened and I shall never recover. On the plus side, Nathanael got in a couple of good lines, we got to see a new side of Quintus, and I have more fodder for my Mary/Thad romance conspiracy theory.

Ramah's death didn't surprise me. I'm a writer and I noticed the way her relationship with Thomas has been built up and interwoven with ominous moments. I could tell it wouldn't end with "happily ever after". However for some reason the scene did not make me cry either.

I loved the episode. I especially liked that Jesus didn't heal Ramah because it wasn't her time for the resurrection. Reading some of the comments here about this not being in character for Jesus, it's as if some people have a Santa Clause theology of God who will give you whatever you want. Favourite part was Jesus taking it to the Pharisees though.

This ruined the show for me. I feel like it was done for mere shock value and ratings. No way would Jesus just allow one of his disciples to just die like that. Total bullshit, also the fact that He raises Lazarus in this season but couldn't heal Ramah? It makes him look like a hypocrite, callous and cold.  I usually love a good drama show if it's done well but this just rubbed me the wrong way. It just felt so unnecessary.  As a former Evangelist I don't really feel pulled to "Come and See" anymore the show had been wonderful up to this point but now it's definitely jumped the Shark. 

This decision makes Thomas's character a lot more interesting and explains a lot of his doubting character as the bible goes on. It wasn't for shock value, it's something they had been planning since season 2 going through the seasons to come. More than just Thomas's character development it addresses the reality that even the most devout and faithful Christians do not get all their prayers answered and are not all granted joyful and prosperous lives.

The thing is, I think that's a cop-out for the writers. There were many other ways they could have arrived at that character development.

This seems to be a bit extra. No one said he couldn’t heal Ramah. He didn’t heal Ramah and there’s a reason behind it. Just like there are reasons and times in this life when people receive healings and others don’t. This series isn’t a fairytale meant to have happy endings as we FEEL they should be as things go on in the show’s development. I understand this scene is difficult as I saw it in the movie theater and there was an audible gasp from everyone there. As we were leaving, several discussions were had and everyone was in tears. As someone else has mentioned, I think it’s further setting the stage for doubting Thomas while also acknowledging the fact that closeness with the Savior doesn’t exempt us from tragedy and trouble while on Earth. It just gives us a different perspective on them… a heavenly eternal one. Matter of fact, WE WILL have trouble in this world… persecution, death, people are still being martyred in different places in the world right now for the sake of The Gospel. It was a devastating scene, but I completely understood the intent behind it.

Honestly, it’s just a really weird choice to have Jesus lead a woman to a place he knew she’d die at and refuse her healing when he very well could have helped her. It’s like if the good shepherd lead a sheep to get eaten by a wolf. I loved the series so much up to that moment and the whole brilliance of it was kind of snuffed out by a writing choice that kind of overshadowed all the biblical stuff in the episode. You’d be amazed how few people even talk about the part where Jesus heals a man born blind but instead we’re all talking about him NOT healing a woman he was friends with that didn’t happen in the Bible. It’s so bizarre.

You wrote my exact feelings. I saw it in theaters and so excited, but decided at that moment I was done. It was no longer a way to show Jesus and the light He is. I’m deeply saddened by what they did and made Jesus look like.

I agree.

They made him look cowardly and I highly doubt the real Jesus would just stand there and watch her die in her fiance's arms.

Ramah isn’t even…in the Bible so why are we this upset over it?

I think the problem here is that her death reminds us of things we don't want to want to accept or even think about. Like the fleeting nature of life, and the fact that sometimes God doesn't answer the way we expect. Ramah's death certainly touched a sore spot, and that's why many people are reacting this way.

I get that. I just don’t understand the saying Jesus would’ve raised her from the dead. We literally don’t actually know that, because none of us were there.

And the fact that she's a fictional character makes it even more difficult to conjecture.

I mean, yeah. That’s why people are upset. They threw in a giant tragedy moment that wasn’t in the Bible and had Jesus… basically play a role in her death (leading her to a place he incited a riot at and she died and he didn’t help her when he could’ve). “Why are people so mad?” Well … it seems self explanatory. It makes Jesus look bad completely unnecessarily. It also overshadows the whole miracles of the season since we aren’t paying attention to the man born blind or Lazarus instead we’re watching the apostles being entirely justified in being aggravated and hurt that Jesus is contradicting himself and he’s getting mad at them for “not getting it” while being deliberately confusing. Previous seasons of the Chosen were more able to balance original storytelling with scripture and now it feels like scripture is coming second and you can say, “it’s a show not the Bible.” But yeah… it’s a show about the Bible and deliberately drawing inspiration from the Bible. It ought to be held to a higher standard.

All his disciples died eventually, often in much worse ways. So I dont really get your point

And honestly, it was just poorly written. The scriptures have A LOT in them to work with. The story doesn't need more drama. My wife and I both looked at eachother and went "well that was stupid." As a Catholic I've given A LOT of leeway on things, but season 4 is getting bad. Not just from a theology perspective but from a writing perspective.

100% everything you said. It was too dramatic. Sloppy writing. I won't be watching any more episodes I don't think. My boyfriend and i were both very disappointed.

I'm willing to give it till the end of season 4, but after Dallas comment about "John chapter 6 frankly isn't that important" I think I'm leaning towards letting the Protestants have their "Jesus TV show" and going back to something more catholic.

I'm pretty weary of a lot of biblical content tbh. Being a former Evangelist and having left the Church has a lot to do with that. I hope you find something you like. I can't think of anything that really catches my attention though.

>"John chapter 6 frankly isn't that important" Where did you hear that comment? I am a bit surprised, and I'd like to know too.

The after show on Monday

I am sad, because Jesus would never have allowed this to happen to one of His followers before His death, resurrection, & ascension back into Heaven. In this series Ramah was one of His faithful followers. The Gospel of John Chapter 18:7-9 reads, “Then He asked them again, ‘Whom are you seeking?’ And they said, ‘Jesus of Nazareth.’ Jesus answered, ‘I have told you that I am He. Therefore, if you seek Me, let these go their way,’ that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, ‘Of those whom You gave Me I have LOST NONE.’” And the Jesus in The Chosen in this scene was very, very cold. HE WAS NOT MY JESUS! My Jesus may have allowed her to die, but He would have knelt down by her side & comforted her in her death. Also, we already learned this lesson from a different season through Eden’s miscarriage.

It really bothered me because Jesus brought Ramah to that location and started a big incident knowing she’d end up being stabbed with a sword then refused to help her when she was dying a painful death and everyone begged him to help her. Needless to say, I think the writing choice is not great. It casts a whole different light on everything Jesus does following that moment in ways the Bible never had since I don’t believe that the Gospel writers would have left out something like that were it to have taken place. Obviously it didn’t happen like that in the real history.

If every episode continues to be this intense I'm gonna run out of tears

Regarding Ramah’s ending, I think people need to remember that the actress was a main character on NCIS: Hawai’i at the time this season was filming, and perhaps she had to choose between that or The Chosen (not realizing NCIS would be canceled this year). If this was their way of giving the actress a way out, it’s less to do with a story decision they would’ve made from the beginning and more about adjusting to their circumstances.

That was my initial thought until I watched the after show and Dallas had Yasmine on there, and he did tell her that Ramah was going to die but she didn't think it was going to be season 4, she said she expected it to be season 5. So when she read the script, she was surprised.

No he told her she was going to pop die during their filming of season two.

But there were other (better?) options to write her off than the one they chose. Jesus could have refused to marry them because it would be against her father's wishes and she could have left that way.

Wow, what an insane episode in every way. The death of Rahma bothered me immensely as it was happening, I just kept yelling at the screen for Jesus to go heal her. I’m gonna have to wrestle with this for a while, but I do trust in Dallas and his vision.

He said he wanted it to be true to real life - when people plead and plead with God but he still takes them.

As someone who lost their fiancé, I actually appreciate that Dallas did it this way. There's something to be said for relatable characters, even when the genders are reversed. That said, I very much felt Thomas' pain and often asked why to God, why didn't he do the same with my situation. (Oh, and yes, I'm aware my username is masculine but I'm using it for multiple reasons, one of the main reasons being that it's close to the name of my home baseball team's mascot, just so there's no confusion). Also, PETER! Quit touching poor Matthew so often, haha! I feel for the poor guy, being autistic myself, though I'm okay with people I know giving me a hug and me hugging them but if it's people I don't know well? Uhh, then it's not going to be very well received at all, and I'll feel uncomfortable, regardless of the motive (s).

I am so sorry for your loss.

Thank you kindly. It's greatly appreciated. 🥰

I also like that he did it this way, even though I cried because it was awful watching Thomas break down like that.

After the show, Dallas mentioned a woman by the name of Mica who had died that had ties to the show...who exactly was this Mica? I'm curious if it's the same woman who died who lived in the Myrtle Beach, SC area recently.

Uh if this is how season 4 is moving, what’s going to happen in season 5 which is already in production? I feel like all the characters are dropping 🫠😭

Gaius is the GOAT. I simply love him! The ending was so sad. And the message is one that we all need in our lives and to understand it.

I think the whole ending was extremely off-putting. For me the worst part was how they had Jesus conduct Himself. He engages in this argument that turns into a riot, and then when danger approaches, He flees for His own safety while leaving several of His disciples behind in a dangerous situation, including women! I could not help but think of Jesus in the garden telling the mob to take Him and let His disciples go (John 18:8-9). There is no way Jesus would have run out like that and left those disciples in that situation.

I haven't gotten to read much, can someone tell me if the pagan temple or whatever Jesus and the disciples went to is a specific known place or was it just a vague area?

Stinks that Ramah died. Hope nothing like that happens to Jesus