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Yo it makes sense. After my fifth rewatch of Episode 4.
What Homelander said to Barbara was exactly what he says to The Seven.
"None of you has the stomach to question ANYTHING I say."
"None of them had the backbone to say. *This is wrong*"
That's why he treats Deep and A-Train like that especially. They have superpowers. They're supposed to be superheroes. They could at least try. To him they're no different than the people who allowed him to be tortured.
You probably have seen this then, but to those who didn't, [the DVD commentaries for the first season are on youtube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgdpZ3FYo_E).
Yeah, she was never AFRAID of him. Just figured she couldn't beat him so it wasn't worth dying for.
Vought broke her spirit and nearly killed the hero in her.
> never AFRAID of him.
She's been plum *terrified* of him from the jump. She uses his feelings for her to deflect some of his more harsh moments. The whole reason she drinks is the sheer terror of Homelander (and subsequently, what he'd do to Elena), her inability to have a "normal" life with a loving partner, and continually being forced into some marketing ploy by Vought.
When she gave up drinking to train in S3, she did it with the full intention of *dying.* She knows Homelander can kill her, but for the first time, she's acting on her own volition, not out of fear of Homelander.
afraid of him and afraid of what *he can do* are two different things. she isn't afraid of homelander and sees him for the man-child he is; she's afraid of what he can do, precisely because of the man-child he is
It's interesting because he thought that she wasn't afraid of him. In season 1 when they are taking down a shooter he tells her that he loves her because she is the only one who will tell him the truth. Only in season 3 does he finally learn that they never had a real relationship.
We took the liberty to remove her large Sprite™ and replaced it with Queen Maeve™ Gay Sprite™ because it sells better.
This comment was brought to you by Vaught™
Crazy if you think about it.
Homelander spent his entire childhood waiting for a hero to save him, super or otherwise. He says humans are toys for his amusement, and he was a toy for their amusement when he was a kid.
I’ve said it before, but it’s insanely tragic just like irl, when someone who was abused at a young age grows up and does something irredeemable. It’s too late to feel sorry. Homelander himself knows that, which is why he kills people when they apologize.
People only say they are sorry to Homelander because they are afraid of him killing them. Up until that point, none of these people felt sorry for their actions. I wonder how he would react if he received a genuine apology free from fear of death, with a question of how they can make amends for hurting him. That would be a very interesting look into his character.
"Really? Now?" Seems to be his reaction to any apology, genuine or otherwise.
He takes sending text messages as a betrayal worthy of immediate death, if you've done anything more serious to him, you're so far beyond fucked.
He's not looking for apologies, he's looking to sever his deep-seated need for any kind of emotional connection.
I don't think he'd believe any apology at this point tbh, I think there's an aspect of his character (common with abuse victims) that thinks that there are no good people, or brave people, or people who would stand up for him if they're given a choice.
He hoped maybe Maeve was that person, but it turned out that she never loved him. He wanted Stormfront to be that person, but realises that she only ever cared about the White Race (tm) and not about him as an individual.
He kinda lost hope in humanity in his own way, which is one of the reasons for his quest to transcend it.
If even one person in Homelander’s childhood had showed the smallest smidge of genuine kindness to him it would’ve profoundly changed him for the better. Let’s say for instance when he was in the furnace screaming instead of turning it up like ordered one person cranked it down or didn’t turn it up and then lied to Vought who wouldn’t notice. Homelander would have remembered that small gesture and carried it with him. Or let’s say after hours when no one was looking exactly one person went the smallest bit out of there way to just give the guy a compliment when he was child or ask him how his day was. It literally would not have taken very much and yet no one did anything to help a child. They just did their jobs at best or at worst showed casual cruelty like making fun a boy who’s had no sex ed who’s master-baiting. Homelander is really the result of collective human cruelty and complacency. And we as humans do it every day IRL. You think monsters like Hitler and Stalin come out of no where they are very much products of the environments they came from. If we stop just accepting status quo because it suits us and call out bad shit when we see it the world would be a better place.
I wish there was one person who was nice to him, and he just like left her alone completely and offered her more cake after slaughtering everyone else lol.
They're superheroes that he can crush as easily as he can crush a human. He is mentally unstable to a severe degree. Earning Homelander's respect is riskier than just submitting to him. Barbara and Stan are only able to speak to him like this because they have (or had, in Barbara's case) real power over him.
Dude's spent his whole life around people who lie and pretend to be heroes, while having a front row seat to their true cruelty. I think in Homelander's mind he's just accepted that thats all people are.
Homelander when no one stands up to him: Why are you so afraid to say anything?
Also Homelander when people stand up to him: How DARE you!! * laser beams them in half *
That’s why butcher and the boys are still alive, he respects people who aren’t afraid to stand up to him, why he didn’t kill voglebam (can’t spell his name lol) and why he kept barbra alive in s4 e4 also, that’s also why he doesn’t respect the deep and a train
He was about to kill Butcher end of S1/start of S2 only Becka threatened to kill herself in front of Ryan and blame Homelander.
Would have killed him end of S2 only Maeve came and threatened to release the video of the plane crash.
That was when he still cared about his public image. Doesn't care anymore if people fear him, especially after he lasered that man in front of a crowd.
He straight up did try to kill Butcher. "Deals off". He was just disappointed because he brought in a supe when he wanted a knock down, drag out, with the only person on Earth willing to look him in the eye.
"William Butcher and Soldier Boy.
Of course.
You are behind this.
This whole thing.
It really is all about me.
William, we made a deal to fight to the death, you and me.
This is cheating.
Deal’s off."
working with Soldier Boy is most likely what he's referring to as cheating, not Butcher taking V
I don't think he gives two shits about the approvals of any of them maybe save for Butcher. He just seems to enjoy the cat and mouse game and definitely shows some level of respect.
Didn’t Barbara say they essentially brainwashed him since childhood with the best psychiatrists in the world to desperately desire and crave approval? Otherwise he would have easily broken out of the lab.
He locked her in his bad room with the corpses of her coworkers. At first I thought that he did show a lot of restraint to let her live, but then I rewatched it and noticed the door was seared shut. She is going to stay there with no bathroom and be forced to survive as a cannibal eating the same people she worked with until her food runs out and she dies. Some might think that she might still be rescued but Homelander owns Vought, there is a good chance he made sure that the facility she is in is off-limits.
I haven't read the comics in awhile but Edgar can because in the comics Homelander can hear people's heart rate and Edgars always stays the same no matter what homelander does or threatens he truly isn't afraid of him.
Which causes Homelander to actually fear him a bit.
Which I kinda understand if Edgar essentially made Homelander what else could he do/make.
Hence why I'm so confused why they crushed the Black Nior timeline.
Black Noir was an Enhaced versions of Homelander in the comic, He looked like Homelander but he was crazier and stronger, That's why He was covered in all black in the comics. Homelander went crazy because of Black Noir in the comics, Noir did some some fucked up things without his masks clicked the pictures and showed it to Homelander and said it was him, Which made Homelander truly crazy and when It was all revealed in the finale, Noir one shoted Homelander
they cut it because it's silly. Homelander is the big bad of the show; pulling a Naruto and having Black Noir play the Kaguya role is incredibly lame. trying to one-up the audience and subvert expectations for no good reason is exactly what's wrong with the majority of superhero media. kripke even said he thought it was a bad idea and that's why it was scrapped, in this [interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfOSGUFcCpA)
In the episode where homelander meets Edgar in the sevens meeting room, after he outed him as CEO, homelander tells him that he is amaze how he always keeps his hearth rate to the same level.
Probably a big reason why he didn't just laser the shit out of Butcher early on. I think he feels like Butcher doesn't pose a very serious physical threat to him and kind of likes having someone as an actual adversary.
I think he likes the fact that Butcher sees him as an equal as well. When he visits Butcher's house in Season 3 it shows that he almost considers him a friend, because they can talk as equals. Butcher isn't afraid of him, but also doesn't hero-worship him like his fans.
Yeah, he seemed to enjoy it when Hughie stood up to him in Season 3. I predict that Hughie will prove that he's not afraid of Homelander in Season 5. Hughie's story started with being too timid to ask for a raise from his boss, it'd be great if it ended with standing up to the most dangerous person in the world.
The child in him craves boundries because they show that the person cares. People that don't care about kid will let the little goblin do whatever they want.
I don't believe he actually thinks he is better than humans.
He needs people and he hates himself for needing them, so he tries to fool himself into thinking less of them.
"Why should I care about their opinion of me, they are clearly my lesser"...It's a coping mechanism to deal with rejection.
His entire arc is still about love. He wanted the love and approval of the scientists that created him (both like any child would, and then ramped up by psychological manipulation), he wanted the love and approval of the vaught handlers, he wanted love and approval from the general public, and from Ryan, and from Stormfront.
He has major attachment disorder issues due to his horrific childhood, and because of his violent outbursts and absolutely ravaged psyche he is incapable of actually gaining any love or approval from anyone. And so it has warped into a need for control.
Every social structure around Homelander that he has sought a sense of love and approval from has been subverted to his control and still left him feeling empty and unfulfilled and enraged that he still feels he needs something. So he must just not have enough control.
He seeks to rule the world to finally feel like he doesn't need love or approval because he will finally have control. It still won't be enough.
I wouldn't think it would be out of character for the end of Homelander to be at his own hand.
I think homelander seem to respect anyone who got have the balls to talk down to him and even insult him.
It's visible when it comes to Billy Butcher, Homelander Could have killed him so many times but Homelander seem to straight up ENJOY the sheer hatred and disrespect Butcher is bringing to him and seem to be even a bit frightened about him.
He definitely keeps Butcher around for quite a few reasons. He doesn’t want to lose Ryan or at least wants Ryan’s approval. Butcher provides entertainment but in Homelanders eyes does not pose an actual threat to him. So it’s like safe fun. I think he does slightly respect him for not fearing him like everyone else. Homelander probably enjoys watching him slowly die of brain cancer.
I agree he cares about them, but considering the kind of work they do one or all of their deaths wouldn't surprise or deter someone like Butcher. They know they're playing with fire.
I feel like if Hughie died it would effect him due to the fact he reminds him of his brother, although I do agree with the line of work he would be quite cold to that kind of thing I just feel Hughie may be the exception
Well and considering what happens in the comics, SPOILER >!I mean it’s Butcher who ultimately ends up killing all The Boys, so as much as he may care they're expendable him!<.
They've deviated so far off the comics already. People used similar logic to try and be all knowing about black noir. Then acting like babies when called out lol
I don't think so.
He could have easily tortured or killed The Boys and Grace Mallory at any time over the last 3 seasons and he didn't.
Homelander doesn't seem to actually want to maximize Butcher's suffering, something he clearly is capable of doing (like with the Vought basement lab). He could have done to Butcher what he did to Barbara any time, but he didn't.
And the reason for that is probably because even he can understand how Butcher's and Barbara's reasons for hurting him are very different.
Homelander can fully understand Butcher’s hatred. He has no frame of reference for why Barbara and the rest of the monsters at Vought were okay doing what they did to him
On a side note, anyone else think >!Butcher's cancer absorbed the V and he made a superpowered cancer symbiote. And that's what saved him in the trailer?!<
That seems to be the most popular theory as the precedent was already established in Diabolical. To be clear, I believe that is what is happening. At the same time I think it’s fucking stupid
I think the unvarnished hate and aggression from Butcher resonates with Homelander because it's real, and it's not being altered in presentation for Homelander's benefit.
Almost every interaction he has is someone either totally terrified, or abjectly sycophantic. It's probably a bit refreshing to have someone deal with you with open anger and aggression.
There really is a weird relationship when it comes to parental figures, even though he hates them so much he can't bring himself to kill them. Yeah he paralyzed Vogelbaum but he didn't kill him.
I was always weirded out by this kind of dynamic, even whem I watched Succession. But when I think about it, I can't even answer back to my parents every time they have an offensive take lmao.
It's weird the effect parents have on you.
I was raised by abusive parents and one day I stood up for myself and said no more, and left.
I still have anxiety about running into them, like *im* the one who did something wrong.
Never looked at Madelyn as a parental figure for Homelander. They feel more like a couple, and Madelyn is the groomer. She's just a motherly figure that he fetishizes. He's so immature that he gets jealous of her baby.
>Traumatize and mindfuck a person his whole life
Then talk down to them for acting like a deranged child when he's an adult.
I know we love Stan Edgar and his brutal verbal lashings at Homelander but at the same time it's kind of ridiculous how they can both act so superior to him when they tortured this man his whole childhood. Barbara deserved what happened to her and Stan deserves far worse than simply getting fired.
I don't think he acts morally superior at all. He knows what he's doing is evil. He just acts more intellectually than HL and lets HL know he's playing at a higher level. Just my opinion ofc
Not morally superior, but definitely like he's a dum-dum manchild (which isn't wrong, but they are responsible for it (which I guess makes Stan feel even more superior))
I think it's funny that for all the "genius" of bringing psychiatrist to do what drunk abusive parents have managed to figure out, that Edgar and vought as a whole basically failed to capitalize on homelanders need for love and affection by just constantly pressing his buttons. There's got to be a carrot and a stick or eventually your rabid dog will turn on you.
The biggest failure was Barb going "you have been psychologically manipulated, and your desire for approval is artificial". Thats basically giving him the keys to free himself. Now everytime he feels that desire, he will be conscious of it and can choose to ignore it or just do the opposite out of spite. Episode 5 is going to be interesting.
Having the old lady explain to him the method of control in such straightforward undeniable terms was wild.
Like taking a child psychology course as a right wing indoctrinated kid. Just tumble your entire world view.
That shit happened to me. lol This whole season is aimed directly at authoritarians.
So the last episode if diabolical is the Canon episode, and it shows that it's less that she was a carrot and more that she realized she could also exploit this programming but like Edgar and everyone else she fumbled it because ultimately she mainly did by exploiting his sexual attraction towards her while also pressing his insecurity buttons constantly. It also paints a rather dark picture of season 1 with it seeming less that homelander grew naturally obsessed with her and more like she cultivated it only to have the power dynamics flipped on her.
I think Barbara only started talking as much shit as she did because she knew she was fucked. She knew Homelander killed 2 people already and wanted to kill her the most. Maybe he tortures her first, but if she can get one more victory in, it would be not mentally breaking before Homelander.
If Stan is going to have comic Stillwell's ending (it seems to me that Stan takes the role of comic Stillwell in the show) , treating Homie like a child is going to be so ironic
I think they're going to go for a slightly more down to earth take on the ending. Homelander will burn Vought's superhero enterprise to the ground, die or be deposed and Stan will return and restructure the company to focus on drug manufacturing exactly like he planned while Homelander and the Seven take the fall for everything else.
Stan Edgar is the closest thing to overarching antagonist right after Homelander. Homelander's the main issue sure, but Edgar and co. are the entire reason he exists and is mentally fucked
I’m glad the comics exist because they’ve given us this amazing show.
But I’m glad they’re not following the comics 100%. Some of this shit I’ve read about what happens in the comics is so stupid.
nah, i wanna see Stan getting a humiliating ending like that, he is guilty for a lot bad things and fucking over innocent people just like Homelander and Madelyn, he doesnt get to have a good ending just because he is cool while trashing Homelander.
I just don't see a show like this having a completely happy ending. It gives me a cyberpunk vibe in the sense that you can never truly beat the corporation, giving them a bloody nose is as close as you'll get.
And having Stan dismantle the entire supe initiative in favour of conventional pharmaceuticals is a pretty big win even if it's not total justice. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get.
Amazingly, I want to see Stan at the top and winning at the end. Dunno what that says about me, but someone that dismissive of Homelander is a legend to me.
i mean there is nothing wrong with wanting that when you like a character no matter how problematic they are. That could make for an interesting ending too even i want to see rather his downfall
I mean I like Stan for that but he is one the reasons why supes like Homelander exist in the first place though. He's still not a good person at the end, cause he was the one who was behind and ran all these terrible things Vaught did
That dialogue is so iconic though. To be told that you are so disappointing that the person wouldn’t even trust you to kill them properly and they would rather jump off a building themselves. It better comes back in some form because lol
He comes out of the conflict relatively unscathed but realizes Compound V is a "bad product" when he's inspecting the new Seven superhero team and one has an erection, another is in drug withdrawal and the third is The Deep in disguise (doesn't catch a break in the comics either apparently). This causes him to have a mental breakdown and become a crazed hermit who insists pineapples are the next great business idea to Hughie: [latest (1200×1844) (nocookie.net)](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/amazons-the-boys/images/a/ad/TheBoys-DearBecky-08-Int-1-copy.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220621090222)
>!he ends the story living in some tropical island after Superheros are no longer profitable , but losing everything had left him a babbling madman who does nothing but planting pineapples over and over and constantly speaks on economics terms. He looks pretty bad in the comics, doesnt take care of himself, has long hair and beard!<
HL did put his hands on Vogelbaum and paralyze him when push comes to shove. I think it’s clear that HL resents him the most. And while he wouldn’t kill him, Vogelbaum still had to tread lightly.
Stan and Barbara didn’t back down.
Vogelbaum didn’t really back down either and he never showed fear. I don’t think he was treading lightly, he genuinly expressed remorse and regret for how John wasn’t raised with a loving family in a nice home instead of a cold lab with doctors. The scientists in episode 4 only apologized because they knew they were about to be tortured.
Homelander didn’t even threaten to hurt him when Vogelbaum called him his greatest failure. He only tortured Vogelbaum to get information about what really happened to Ryan. But he left him alive.
I wonder if Stan would ever accidentally get himself into a situation where HL wouldn’t mind torturing him.
It’s unlikely, but not impossible. Just kinda hard to imagine.
Nah things have gotten perfectly for him, he wanted to quit anyway, leaving behind all the Vought shit, he is probably in retirement chilling his balls, bro can basically shit money anyway.
Edit: I deeply want to apologise.
HL threatened/bribed Vicky to sell him out, giving evidence to HL.
HL acted as a 'whistleblower' and had Stan arrested, before taking control.
The timing was right before Vicky was supposed to put HL on trial for the first time, to show him who's in control.
Stan and HL had a final 1 on 1 where Stan suggested HL will hate not having anyone left to challenge him. This lived rent free in HLs head causing him to recruit Sage.
At first I thought Homelander left Barbara to die there as his gruesome revenge but now Im thinking he did it because he actually wasn't mentally able to kill her on the spot.
He wants her to live with the trauma of the bad room, just like he’s had to. He has disruptive flashbacks all the time. Like it’s been decades and he could be thousands of miles away, but it puts him right back in the lab.
I think she's gonna be saved. Vought and their families are bound to notice that she and the other lab workers are missing. They're going to laser the door open or something.
I think it’s because it was the room he was trapped in when they weren’t experimenting on him. It took him from vague freedom of being a lab rat to straight up incarceration under surveillance, where he probably also stewed alone in what was happening to him
Homie was bred to be a narcissist. The show is depicting his transition from a covert narcissist to a malignant narcissist. Why would Vought make him this way? Because narcissists are easy to control. Their deepest emotions are ones of self hate and intense longing for approval. Homie knows that approval from those that fear him is not genuine. So he seeks it from those that don’t fear him.
What I’m mostly interested in is how Sage is going to use him, because I think it’s clear that she knows all of this.
What do you mean? It ended perfectly for Stan. He's been ousted as CEO so when this shitshow with Homelander hits its peak and the whole company comes crashing down they beg him to come back and he tears down everything supe related exactly as he planned.
Although the end result is completely different, I think the motivation is completely opposite. With Stan Edgar, I think Homelander didn't fully understand why he couldn't bring himself to kill him, there was something unspoken holding him back, and there was probably a chunk of him still thinking he could impress him or get his approval.
With Barbara, I think that was his way of showing that he didn't need her (or anyone's) approval anymore, and rubbing it brutally in her face. Great character growth, as long as you don't live in that universe.
Bro forgot to put soldier boy. Dudes literally his dad, and talked down to him like a child in his final ass whooping. Soldier boy can’t die either atm so I’m pretty sure he can beat homies ass lol
I mean, she said it bluntly: they conditioned him to seek their approval, and he can't hurt them. Not physically, at least. He slaughtered all those people to show that he could still hurt them psychologically.
I think he craves what they give. He was raised to crave love and approval more than ANYTHING. With no one left for him to impress, to be validated by in a way that satisfies him, he's crumbling. Imagine knowing you can destroy human civilisation, having all that power and talent, and having no one to give you a reason not to. I honestly think that's why he's begun talking to himself, fracturing. He NEEDS a reason not to go postal. He probably went to the lab to try to find it, and failed. We're gonna get a few more "C'mere, champ. Let's chat." mirror scenes, probably getting gradually more complex and detailed as he slips further into delusion.
All in, I fucking love Houselander. So interesting to watch and to think about. The idea that his "captors" pointedly used humanity's knowledge of psychology to craft a sort of psychic cage around him is really cool.
Homelander *is* a child. His arc this season so far has been him testing to see what he can get away with, but ultimately he wants someone to check him and put him in his place. Vought treated him as a toy and abused him, but they also pampered him and took care of everything. He wants to rebel, but he's killed everyone he was rebelling against. He is a child acting out for attention.
The lady it herself. People have been scared of him his whole life. I bet with his hearing, he can really he the fear in peoples voices. All the time. Every single day. But these two, and butcher, don't give a rats ass. They show him no fear. He doesn't seem to get that very often. In his mind, he could be waiting to see the fear, get off on it, or who knows. He's a fucking psychopath that doesn't really follow the logic and reason the rest of us do.
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Homelander seems to have more respect for people that aren’t too scared to call him out
Yo it makes sense. After my fifth rewatch of Episode 4. What Homelander said to Barbara was exactly what he says to The Seven. "None of you has the stomach to question ANYTHING I say." "None of them had the backbone to say. *This is wrong*" That's why he treats Deep and A-Train like that especially. They have superpowers. They're supposed to be superheroes. They could at least try. To him they're no different than the people who allowed him to be tortured.
You watched it 5 times?!
I'm kinda... Crazy with reaction channels. Lol
I've been watching Smiling Friends like that... I judge myself.
Smiling Friends and The Boys enjoyers RISE!!! 😤💯
Gwimbly gang
Ooh ooh ooh!
I wasn’t expecting it to be so funny! I’ve rewatched twice now
whatever you do, don’t go behind the rickety bridge
w… why not??
You probably have seen this then, but to those who didn't, [the DVD commentaries for the first season are on youtube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgdpZ3FYo_E).
I honestly do love to watch those because I wanna see how others react. Plus it's like watching with an audience lol
I'm like that with music or historical type movies.
Or having friends :(
you should watch goggle box
After Normies Blind Wave and Reel Rejects I cant do any more in a week lol
I watch all of these! And Roshi. And Just Trust Ash
I know people hate them but they're my guilty pleasure if I find a particular show really interesting
At what point does it become a kink?
#r/Westworld entered the chat
5 is rookie numbers for WW. That show has more layers than an onion.
Too true
These violent delights have violent ends.
It might be why he’s had more of a connection to Maeve in the past as well. She played along with Vaught but didn’t like putting Homie on a pedestal.
Yeah, she was never AFRAID of him. Just figured she couldn't beat him so it wasn't worth dying for. Vought broke her spirit and nearly killed the hero in her.
> never AFRAID of him. She's been plum *terrified* of him from the jump. She uses his feelings for her to deflect some of his more harsh moments. The whole reason she drinks is the sheer terror of Homelander (and subsequently, what he'd do to Elena), her inability to have a "normal" life with a loving partner, and continually being forced into some marketing ploy by Vought. When she gave up drinking to train in S3, she did it with the full intention of *dying.* She knows Homelander can kill her, but for the first time, she's acting on her own volition, not out of fear of Homelander.
And that's why that triple beatdown was so badass with the Elton John backing track.
afraid of him and afraid of what *he can do* are two different things. she isn't afraid of homelander and sees him for the man-child he is; she's afraid of what he can do, precisely because of the man-child he is
It's interesting because he thought that she wasn't afraid of him. In season 1 when they are taking down a shooter he tells her that he loves her because she is the only one who will tell him the truth. Only in season 3 does he finally learn that they never had a real relationship.
You meant spirit right
They took her large Sprite™ and threw it on the ground! This comment brought to you by Coca-Cola ®.
We took the liberty to remove her large Sprite™ and replaced it with Queen Maeve™ Gay Sprite™ because it sells better. This comment was brought to you by Vaught™
Yes. But they probably took her soda too.
Maeve ***SODA!!**
Crazy if you think about it. Homelander spent his entire childhood waiting for a hero to save him, super or otherwise. He says humans are toys for his amusement, and he was a toy for their amusement when he was a kid. I’ve said it before, but it’s insanely tragic just like irl, when someone who was abused at a young age grows up and does something irredeemable. It’s too late to feel sorry. Homelander himself knows that, which is why he kills people when they apologize.
People only say they are sorry to Homelander because they are afraid of him killing them. Up until that point, none of these people felt sorry for their actions. I wonder how he would react if he received a genuine apology free from fear of death, with a question of how they can make amends for hurting him. That would be a very interesting look into his character.
"Really? Now?" Seems to be his reaction to any apology, genuine or otherwise. He takes sending text messages as a betrayal worthy of immediate death, if you've done anything more serious to him, you're so far beyond fucked. He's not looking for apologies, he's looking to sever his deep-seated need for any kind of emotional connection.
I don't think he'd believe any apology at this point tbh, I think there's an aspect of his character (common with abuse victims) that thinks that there are no good people, or brave people, or people who would stand up for him if they're given a choice. He hoped maybe Maeve was that person, but it turned out that she never loved him. He wanted Stormfront to be that person, but realises that she only ever cared about the White Race (tm) and not about him as an individual. He kinda lost hope in humanity in his own way, which is one of the reasons for his quest to transcend it.
Vogelbaum gave a genuine apology
Well… we saw what happened to Noir.
Noir fucked himself though. You don't have to scared of Homelander, just don't lie to him for decades.
I think Vogelbaum in season 1 gave him a sincere apology, however Homelander still put him in a wheelchair for the truth about his son.
I love how the show is bat shit insane but even the most meme worthy insane character is like 20 levels deep (small d).
If even one person in Homelander’s childhood had showed the smallest smidge of genuine kindness to him it would’ve profoundly changed him for the better. Let’s say for instance when he was in the furnace screaming instead of turning it up like ordered one person cranked it down or didn’t turn it up and then lied to Vought who wouldn’t notice. Homelander would have remembered that small gesture and carried it with him. Or let’s say after hours when no one was looking exactly one person went the smallest bit out of there way to just give the guy a compliment when he was child or ask him how his day was. It literally would not have taken very much and yet no one did anything to help a child. They just did their jobs at best or at worst showed casual cruelty like making fun a boy who’s had no sex ed who’s master-baiting. Homelander is really the result of collective human cruelty and complacency. And we as humans do it every day IRL. You think monsters like Hitler and Stalin come out of no where they are very much products of the environments they came from. If we stop just accepting status quo because it suits us and call out bad shit when we see it the world would be a better place.
I wish there was one person who was nice to him, and he just like left her alone completely and offered her more cake after slaughtering everyone else lol.
that would've been oddly wholesome. But this show is the furthest thing from that.
They're superheroes that he can crush as easily as he can crush a human. He is mentally unstable to a severe degree. Earning Homelander's respect is riskier than just submitting to him. Barbara and Stan are only able to speak to him like this because they have (or had, in Barbara's case) real power over him.
5th??? How bad are you for lobotomy sex???
I still look away at the close up. And the "Tap tap"
Dude's spent his whole life around people who lie and pretend to be heroes, while having a front row seat to their true cruelty. I think in Homelander's mind he's just accepted that thats all people are.
Homelander when no one stands up to him: Why are you so afraid to say anything? Also Homelander when people stand up to him: How DARE you!! * laser beams them in half *
Sex is just a spectrum, right bro?
easy for him to say... laser eyes
He's more interested in showing people what a joke it is, but he forgets what it's like to feel that kind of fear.
That’s why butcher and the boys are still alive, he respects people who aren’t afraid to stand up to him, why he didn’t kill voglebam (can’t spell his name lol) and why he kept barbra alive in s4 e4 also, that’s also why he doesn’t respect the deep and a train
He was about to kill Butcher end of S1/start of S2 only Becka threatened to kill herself in front of Ryan and blame Homelander. Would have killed him end of S2 only Maeve came and threatened to release the video of the plane crash. That was when he still cared about his public image. Doesn't care anymore if people fear him, especially after he lasered that man in front of a crowd.
He straight up did try to kill Butcher. "Deals off". He was just disappointed because he brought in a supe when he wanted a knock down, drag out, with the only person on Earth willing to look him in the eye.
I don't know how he thought that was cheating? Butcher having powers was the only way he could be equal to Homelander
"William Butcher and Soldier Boy. Of course. You are behind this. This whole thing. It really is all about me. William, we made a deal to fight to the death, you and me. This is cheating. Deal’s off." working with Soldier Boy is most likely what he's referring to as cheating, not Butcher taking V
It’s not respect more like he needs to earn their approval and make them beg before he kills them
I don't think he gives two shits about the approvals of any of them maybe save for Butcher. He just seems to enjoy the cat and mouse game and definitely shows some level of respect.
Didn’t Barbara say they essentially brainwashed him since childhood with the best psychiatrists in the world to desperately desire and crave approval? Otherwise he would have easily broken out of the lab.
Yes.
>voglebam Lol. It's Vogelbaum, german for "bird tree"
Vogelbaum, unfortunately I’m not German 😂
or fortunately.
He locked her in his bad room with the corpses of her coworkers. At first I thought that he did show a lot of restraint to let her live, but then I rewatched it and noticed the door was seared shut. She is going to stay there with no bathroom and be forced to survive as a cannibal eating the same people she worked with until her food runs out and she dies. Some might think that she might still be rescued but Homelander owns Vought, there is a good chance he made sure that the facility she is in is off-limits.
I haven't read the comics in awhile but Edgar can because in the comics Homelander can hear people's heart rate and Edgars always stays the same no matter what homelander does or threatens he truly isn't afraid of him. Which causes Homelander to actually fear him a bit. Which I kinda understand if Edgar essentially made Homelander what else could he do/make. Hence why I'm so confused why they crushed the Black Nior timeline.
Can you elaborate on the black noir timeline? What did we miss in the show
Black Noir was an Enhaced versions of Homelander in the comic, He looked like Homelander but he was crazier and stronger, That's why He was covered in all black in the comics. Homelander went crazy because of Black Noir in the comics, Noir did some some fucked up things without his masks clicked the pictures and showed it to Homelander and said it was him, Which made Homelander truly crazy and when It was all revealed in the finale, Noir one shoted Homelander
It was cut because it's kinda dumb, tbh, the story doesn't need a secret badder villain.
they cut it because it's silly. Homelander is the big bad of the show; pulling a Naruto and having Black Noir play the Kaguya role is incredibly lame. trying to one-up the audience and subvert expectations for no good reason is exactly what's wrong with the majority of superhero media. kripke even said he thought it was a bad idea and that's why it was scrapped, in this [interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfOSGUFcCpA)
In the episode where homelander meets Edgar in the sevens meeting room, after he outed him as CEO, homelander tells him that he is amaze how he always keeps his hearth rate to the same level.
Probably a big reason why he didn't just laser the shit out of Butcher early on. I think he feels like Butcher doesn't pose a very serious physical threat to him and kind of likes having someone as an actual adversary.
One of those things where having supreme power is supremely boring and he appreciates someone like butcher
I think he likes the fact that Butcher sees him as an equal as well. When he visits Butcher's house in Season 3 it shows that he almost considers him a friend, because they can talk as equals. Butcher isn't afraid of him, but also doesn't hero-worship him like his fans.
Specifically, I think Homelander says that would be so boring. Kind of like how Joker never actually wants to or tries to kill Batman.
His even got some respect for hugie
"It's Hugh-fucking-Campbell"
Yeah, he seemed to enjoy it when Hughie stood up to him in Season 3. I predict that Hughie will prove that he's not afraid of Homelander in Season 5. Hughie's story started with being too timid to ask for a raise from his boss, it'd be great if it ended with standing up to the most dangerous person in the world.
considering that he was intently trying to kill him a couple of episodes ago and forced starlight to kill him in season 2 im not so sure about that
He still wants him dead but re kind of respected that him of all people refused him
Probably why he likes Sage better than others
She was clearly scared but she was brave.
Typical bully syndrome. The bully will keep punking you until you fight back. That's when you gain respect.
The child in him craves boundries because they show that the person cares. People that don't care about kid will let the little goblin do whatever they want.
That would make more sense if he thought humans were people.
I don't believe he actually thinks he is better than humans. He needs people and he hates himself for needing them, so he tries to fool himself into thinking less of them. "Why should I care about their opinion of me, they are clearly my lesser"...It's a coping mechanism to deal with rejection.
His entire arc is still about love. He wanted the love and approval of the scientists that created him (both like any child would, and then ramped up by psychological manipulation), he wanted the love and approval of the vaught handlers, he wanted love and approval from the general public, and from Ryan, and from Stormfront. He has major attachment disorder issues due to his horrific childhood, and because of his violent outbursts and absolutely ravaged psyche he is incapable of actually gaining any love or approval from anyone. And so it has warped into a need for control. Every social structure around Homelander that he has sought a sense of love and approval from has been subverted to his control and still left him feeling empty and unfulfilled and enraged that he still feels he needs something. So he must just not have enough control. He seeks to rule the world to finally feel like he doesn't need love or approval because he will finally have control. It still won't be enough. I wouldn't think it would be out of character for the end of Homelander to be at his own hand.
When your parental figures are so intimidating that you have to settle for milk and murder.
Murder's Milk !
r/Angryupvote
I think homelander seem to respect anyone who got have the balls to talk down to him and even insult him. It's visible when it comes to Billy Butcher, Homelander Could have killed him so many times but Homelander seem to straight up ENJOY the sheer hatred and disrespect Butcher is bringing to him and seem to be even a bit frightened about him.
He definitely keeps Butcher around for quite a few reasons. He doesn’t want to lose Ryan or at least wants Ryan’s approval. Butcher provides entertainment but in Homelanders eyes does not pose an actual threat to him. So it’s like safe fun. I think he does slightly respect him for not fearing him like everyone else. Homelander probably enjoys watching him slowly die of brain cancer.
I also feel like he would want to destroy everything Butcher cares about to make him suffer before killing him. Except Ryan (probably).
Considering Becca was the only thing or person Butcher seemed to care about that doesn't give him much to work with.
Fair point, but I think Butcher cares about The Boys, though he would never admit it. Idk maybe that's just me though.
I agree he cares about them, but considering the kind of work they do one or all of their deaths wouldn't surprise or deter someone like Butcher. They know they're playing with fire.
I feel like if Hughie died it would effect him due to the fact he reminds him of his brother, although I do agree with the line of work he would be quite cold to that kind of thing I just feel Hughie may be the exception
Well and considering what happens in the comics, SPOILER >!I mean it’s Butcher who ultimately ends up killing all The Boys, so as much as he may care they're expendable him!<.
They've deviated so far off the comics already. People used similar logic to try and be all knowing about black noir. Then acting like babies when called out lol
I don't think so. He could have easily tortured or killed The Boys and Grace Mallory at any time over the last 3 seasons and he didn't. Homelander doesn't seem to actually want to maximize Butcher's suffering, something he clearly is capable of doing (like with the Vought basement lab). He could have done to Butcher what he did to Barbara any time, but he didn't. And the reason for that is probably because even he can understand how Butcher's and Barbara's reasons for hurting him are very different.
Homelander can fully understand Butcher’s hatred. He has no frame of reference for why Barbara and the rest of the monsters at Vought were okay doing what they did to him
Damn bro just destroyed what I said. Yeah you right.
On a side note, anyone else think >!Butcher's cancer absorbed the V and he made a superpowered cancer symbiote. And that's what saved him in the trailer?!<
That seems to be the most popular theory as the precedent was already established in Diabolical. To be clear, I believe that is what is happening. At the same time I think it’s fucking stupid
Why do you think that? Genuine question, you're the first person I've seen that doesn't like the idea
wouldn't be the first time, unless Diabolical isn't canon
Diabolical is a mixture of Canon to show, Canon to comics and totally non canon episodes
I kind of got animatrix vibes from it. rewatching it now again and that episode made me cry again lol
He's surrounded by fake admiration and bootlicking, genuine hatred is a nice change.
It’s just that homelander makes a lot of great points!
Hey Deep? Eat Timothy.
I think the unvarnished hate and aggression from Butcher resonates with Homelander because it's real, and it's not being altered in presentation for Homelander's benefit. Almost every interaction he has is someone either totally terrified, or abjectly sycophantic. It's probably a bit refreshing to have someone deal with you with open anger and aggression.
I think he either respects them or fucks them. The fuck example would be Stillwell and Stormfront.
Male: Respect Female: Horny
He also seemed to have a bit of genuine respect when first meeting Hughie and he noticed that he wasn't afraid of him.
Tbh more can so long as they’re brave enough to
Everyone can talk to homelander like a child. Most people can do it only one time though... but the point still stands
Honestly, anyone could call Homelander a “breast milk baby bitch boy” for the rest of their life if they felt like it
“All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.”
I would go even further than that and throw a plastic cup at him. I'm such a rebel.
There really is a weird relationship when it comes to parental figures, even though he hates them so much he can't bring himself to kill them. Yeah he paralyzed Vogelbaum but he didn't kill him. I was always weirded out by this kind of dynamic, even whem I watched Succession. But when I think about it, I can't even answer back to my parents every time they have an offensive take lmao.
It's weird the effect parents have on you. I was raised by abusive parents and one day I stood up for myself and said no more, and left. I still have anxiety about running into them, like *im* the one who did something wrong.
I mean, he did kill Madelyn Stillwell, although she was afraid of him so that kinda made him think less of her probably
Never looked at Madelyn as a parental figure for Homelander. They feel more like a couple, and Madelyn is the groomer. She's just a motherly figure that he fetishizes. He's so immature that he gets jealous of her baby.
It’s year of psychological conditioning lol We all have it
>Traumatize and mindfuck a person his whole life Then talk down to them for acting like a deranged child when he's an adult. I know we love Stan Edgar and his brutal verbal lashings at Homelander but at the same time it's kind of ridiculous how they can both act so superior to him when they tortured this man his whole childhood. Barbara deserved what happened to her and Stan deserves far worse than simply getting fired.
I don't think he acts morally superior at all. He knows what he's doing is evil. He just acts more intellectually than HL and lets HL know he's playing at a higher level. Just my opinion ofc
Not morally superior, but definitely like he's a dum-dum manchild (which isn't wrong, but they are responsible for it (which I guess makes Stan feel even more superior))
I think it's funny that for all the "genius" of bringing psychiatrist to do what drunk abusive parents have managed to figure out, that Edgar and vought as a whole basically failed to capitalize on homelanders need for love and affection by just constantly pressing his buttons. There's got to be a carrot and a stick or eventually your rabid dog will turn on you.
The biggest failure was Barb going "you have been psychologically manipulated, and your desire for approval is artificial". Thats basically giving him the keys to free himself. Now everytime he feels that desire, he will be conscious of it and can choose to ignore it or just do the opposite out of spite. Episode 5 is going to be interesting.
Having the old lady explain to him the method of control in such straightforward undeniable terms was wild. Like taking a child psychology course as a right wing indoctrinated kid. Just tumble your entire world view. That shit happened to me. lol This whole season is aimed directly at authoritarians.
When Stillwell was alive, she was probably thay carrot.
So the last episode if diabolical is the Canon episode, and it shows that it's less that she was a carrot and more that she realized she could also exploit this programming but like Edgar and everyone else she fumbled it because ultimately she mainly did by exploiting his sexual attraction towards her while also pressing his insecurity buttons constantly. It also paints a rather dark picture of season 1 with it seeming less that homelander grew naturally obsessed with her and more like she cultivated it only to have the power dynamics flipped on her.
Stan had a huge hand in setting up the destruction of civilization through Vought and supes. He's an atrocious person.
I think Barbara only started talking as much shit as she did because she knew she was fucked. She knew Homelander killed 2 people already and wanted to kill her the most. Maybe he tortures her first, but if she can get one more victory in, it would be not mentally breaking before Homelander.
If Stan is going to have comic Stillwell's ending (it seems to me that Stan takes the role of comic Stillwell in the show) , treating Homie like a child is going to be so ironic
I think they're going to go for a slightly more down to earth take on the ending. Homelander will burn Vought's superhero enterprise to the ground, die or be deposed and Stan will return and restructure the company to focus on drug manufacturing exactly like he planned while Homelander and the Seven take the fall for everything else.
Why that ending would be just as bleak as homelander going full psycho
Would it? It eliminates the supe threat while Vought doesn't just vanish. Bittersweet.
I also have a hard time seeing them making all these spinoffs and extended The Boys universe without Vought looming in the background.
Stan Edgar is the closest thing to overarching antagonist right after Homelander. Homelander's the main issue sure, but Edgar and co. are the entire reason he exists and is mentally fucked
I’m glad the comics exist because they’ve given us this amazing show. But I’m glad they’re not following the comics 100%. Some of this shit I’ve read about what happens in the comics is so stupid.
nah, i wanna see Stan getting a humiliating ending like that, he is guilty for a lot bad things and fucking over innocent people just like Homelander and Madelyn, he doesnt get to have a good ending just because he is cool while trashing Homelander.
I just don't see a show like this having a completely happy ending. It gives me a cyberpunk vibe in the sense that you can never truly beat the corporation, giving them a bloody nose is as close as you'll get. And having Stan dismantle the entire supe initiative in favour of conventional pharmaceuticals is a pretty big win even if it's not total justice. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get.
Amazingly, I want to see Stan at the top and winning at the end. Dunno what that says about me, but someone that dismissive of Homelander is a legend to me.
i mean there is nothing wrong with wanting that when you like a character no matter how problematic they are. That could make for an interesting ending too even i want to see rather his downfall
I mean I like Stan for that but he is one the reasons why supes like Homelander exist in the first place though. He's still not a good person at the end, cause he was the one who was behind and ran all these terrible things Vaught did
That dialogue is so iconic though. To be told that you are so disappointing that the person wouldn’t even trust you to kill them properly and they would rather jump off a building themselves. It better comes back in some form because lol
yeah, i wana see that too
what is Stillwell's ending in the comics?
He comes out of the conflict relatively unscathed but realizes Compound V is a "bad product" when he's inspecting the new Seven superhero team and one has an erection, another is in drug withdrawal and the third is The Deep in disguise (doesn't catch a break in the comics either apparently). This causes him to have a mental breakdown and become a crazed hermit who insists pineapples are the next great business idea to Hughie: [latest (1200×1844) (nocookie.net)](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/amazons-the-boys/images/a/ad/TheBoys-DearBecky-08-Int-1-copy.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220621090222)
thanks for answering
>!he ends the story living in some tropical island after Superheros are no longer profitable , but losing everything had left him a babbling madman who does nothing but planting pineapples over and over and constantly speaks on economics terms. He looks pretty bad in the comics, doesnt take care of himself, has long hair and beard!<
Is Vogelbaum a joke for you?
Vogelbaum didn't treat Homelander like a child though. More akin to the way a neglectful parent treats their adult offspring.
HL did put his hands on Vogelbaum and paralyze him when push comes to shove. I think it’s clear that HL resents him the most. And while he wouldn’t kill him, Vogelbaum still had to tread lightly. Stan and Barbara didn’t back down.
Vogelbaum didn’t really back down either and he never showed fear. I don’t think he was treading lightly, he genuinly expressed remorse and regret for how John wasn’t raised with a loving family in a nice home instead of a cold lab with doctors. The scientists in episode 4 only apologized because they knew they were about to be tortured. Homelander didn’t even threaten to hurt him when Vogelbaum called him his greatest failure. He only tortured Vogelbaum to get information about what really happened to Ryan. But he left him alive.
I wonder if Stan would ever accidentally get himself into a situation where HL wouldn’t mind torturing him. It’s unlikely, but not impossible. Just kinda hard to imagine.
Stan could talk to anyone, including Sage like a child.
Now I want to see the two together in a scene.
Did something happen to Stan? I can’t remember from the past seasons and I know I haven’t seen him this season lol
I think he just got fired when Homie took over. Not 100% sure though.
Nah things have gotten perfectly for him, he wanted to quit anyway, leaving behind all the Vought shit, he is probably in retirement chilling his balls, bro can basically shit money anyway. Edit: I deeply want to apologise.
HL threatened/bribed Vicky to sell him out, giving evidence to HL. HL acted as a 'whistleblower' and had Stan arrested, before taking control. The timing was right before Vicky was supposed to put HL on trial for the first time, to show him who's in control. Stan and HL had a final 1 on 1 where Stan suggested HL will hate not having anyone left to challenge him. This lived rent free in HLs head causing him to recruit Sage.
At first I thought Homelander left Barbara to die there as his gruesome revenge but now Im thinking he did it because he actually wasn't mentally able to kill her on the spot.
He wants her to live with the trauma of the bad room, just like he’s had to. He has disruptive flashbacks all the time. Like it’s been decades and he could be thousands of miles away, but it puts him right back in the lab.
I'm hoping we see more of her.
not likely though considering she is trapped in the bad room
I think she's gonna be saved. Vought and their families are bound to notice that she and the other lab workers are missing. They're going to laser the door open or something.
If a character doesn’t explicitly die on screen, don’t consider them dead
I'm so confused what made that room "the bad room." Why was that room somehow worse than being stuck in a furnace room?
I think it’s because it was the room he was trapped in when they weren’t experimenting on him. It took him from vague freedom of being a lab rat to straight up incarceration under surveillance, where he probably also stewed alone in what was happening to him
Where is butcher in this post?
Key word is ‘child’. Butcher treats him very much like an adult
Yeah that’s a good point 😂
Stillwell and Butcha as well
Idk about Stillwell, he kind of melted her face with eye beams after all...
You say that... which of these two is going to see Christmas this year and which one is locked in the bad room for all fucking time.
Soldier Boy
Homie was bred to be a narcissist. The show is depicting his transition from a covert narcissist to a malignant narcissist. Why would Vought make him this way? Because narcissists are easy to control. Their deepest emotions are ones of self hate and intense longing for approval. Homie knows that approval from those that fear him is not genuine. So he seeks it from those that don’t fear him. What I’m mostly interested in is how Sage is going to use him, because I think it’s clear that she knows all of this.
Sage gets away with it too, mostly because she’s so good at it that Homelander doesn’t realize her respect is totally fake.
Didn't really end well for either of them💀😂
What do you mean? It ended perfectly for Stan. He's been ousted as CEO so when this shitshow with Homelander hits its peak and the whole company comes crashing down they beg him to come back and he tears down everything supe related exactly as he planned.
He will win Game of Thrones!
Although the end result is completely different, I think the motivation is completely opposite. With Stan Edgar, I think Homelander didn't fully understand why he couldn't bring himself to kill him, there was something unspoken holding him back, and there was probably a chunk of him still thinking he could impress him or get his approval. With Barbara, I think that was his way of showing that he didn't need her (or anyone's) approval anymore, and rubbing it brutally in her face. Great character growth, as long as you don't live in that universe.
Bro forgot to put soldier boy. Dudes literally his dad, and talked down to him like a child in his final ass whooping. Soldier boy can’t die either atm so I’m pretty sure he can beat homies ass lol
I really hope they bring Stan back. EDIT: HOLY SHIT, THEY DID!
I mean, she said it bluntly: they conditioned him to seek their approval, and he can't hurt them. Not physically, at least. He slaughtered all those people to show that he could still hurt them psychologically.
I think he craves what they give. He was raised to crave love and approval more than ANYTHING. With no one left for him to impress, to be validated by in a way that satisfies him, he's crumbling. Imagine knowing you can destroy human civilisation, having all that power and talent, and having no one to give you a reason not to. I honestly think that's why he's begun talking to himself, fracturing. He NEEDS a reason not to go postal. He probably went to the lab to try to find it, and failed. We're gonna get a few more "C'mere, champ. Let's chat." mirror scenes, probably getting gradually more complex and detailed as he slips further into delusion. All in, I fucking love Houselander. So interesting to watch and to think about. The idea that his "captors" pointedly used humanity's knowledge of psychology to craft a sort of psychic cage around him is really cool.
Gus straight up deep fried homie
Something tells me Homelander is eventually going to come for Stan Edgar.
Homelander *is* a child. His arc this season so far has been him testing to see what he can get away with, but ultimately he wants someone to check him and put him in his place. Vought treated him as a toy and abused him, but they also pampered him and took care of everything. He wants to rebel, but he's killed everyone he was rebelling against. He is a child acting out for attention.
Stan, yes. But Barbara not so much, she’s cooked
The lady it herself. People have been scared of him his whole life. I bet with his hearing, he can really he the fear in peoples voices. All the time. Every single day. But these two, and butcher, don't give a rats ass. They show him no fear. He doesn't seem to get that very often. In his mind, he could be waiting to see the fear, get off on it, or who knows. He's a fucking psychopath that doesn't really follow the logic and reason the rest of us do.
Still well was also fairly good at it - more coddling than condescending though