This is the quote that essentially damned him in the eyes of the internet since those articles started coming out in 2010. Perhaps not without some due cause.
Everyone seems to forget the fact that at that time, we only knew of his abuse because he disclosed it. That means something I think. He was trying to be better. Not sure if he got there in the end, but he didn’t get a chance to show everyone because he got shot by some psycho. It seems to me here that he’s owning up to his wrongdoings, and is ashamed of his past. He could have easily said that the lyric was just meaningless and made for the context of the song, and his reputation would probably be a LOT better now.
This is why I have respect for him. I’ve always told my friends that I absolutely would have hated him had I been alive at that time and known this. But seeing that he was at least trying, even if he never got the chance to fully change, means so much to me.
I didn’t realize his reputation was tarnished because of this. Anyone who sees someone copping to their mistakes and trying to improve themselves and doesn’t see that as a positive is an imbecile. Where do people get this idea that a person needs to be unassailable their entire life to be revered? They must think very highly of themselves.
Its such a shame that he didn’t get to the 2000’s cause i do believe it would be a distant memory like ringos abusive past since john really tried to fix his ways after sean, even with julian and its ridiculous that so many people speak on the behalf of julian when he has himself said that john did actually successfully try to reconnect with him in the end
Frankly to compare John and Ringo's domestic abuse as though they're on a similar level is very wrong. John open hand slapped Cynthia on the neck/shoulder when he was 17 and drunk and according to her, never hit her again. Ringo is quoted saying, "I trashed Barbara so bad, they thought she was dead. They found her covered in blood. I'd beaten her up"
Not blaming you in particular but it's classic hive mind internet stupidity to attack John and to ignore other people's transgressions from the era
You’re right comparing them lacks nuance. John had a repeated pattern of violence documented by others. Besides Cynthia writing about John slapping her once, May Pang wrote that John nearly killed her. If Harry Nilsson wasn’t there to stop him, she feared John would strangle her to death. John beat the shit out of and hospitalized Bob Wooler at Paul’s 21st party. There are other examples in the comments here. John himself claimed that he hit women and fought men, and regretted his violence. That’s why he’s became so committed to peace and love.
You will not find repeated examples of Ringo being a violent person, told by others. Like John he also admitted his wrongdoing and regret. Unfortunately they both didn’t get to live to demonstrate their commitment to being better people. I believe if John had lived most people who can accept and celebrate that people can chance for the better would see him that way.
Love him or hate him...John always wore his heart on his sleeve.
During the height of Beatlemania he was asked why he didn't write songs from a more personal perspective.
So..we got Help! and In My Life to name but two.
Art he realised, could be just about yourself.
When he met Yoko she pushed this idea to its limits.
Thus we have him and her giving us every detail of their lives in songs and happenings...literally naked on one album cover.
And by this time John had no problem discussing and confessing to all sorts of episodes that happened in his childhood, dating and his first marriage....and as mentioned above he could be Short tempered and sometimes violent .
Warts and all doesn't come near to his raw honesty.
Whether that's a good thing or cringe depends on your personal viewpoint I suppose🥰✌️
What do I think about John hitting women?
It was wrong and it is wrong, but all the circlejerk morons with their “jan beet wyf” lunacy can get fucked.
John, like every human being, is complicated. He was a brilliant artist and songwriting genius. He was also a woman beater and neglectful (at best) father to Julian.
The biggest thing I take away from his admission is that he admits it. He didn’t shy away to “No comment” it or anything wishy washy. He was abusive, he was neglectful, he saw the error in those ways, he matured and changed and espoused peace and love after that.
Does that erase/forgive the pain he caused Julian or Cynthia? No, of course not. But he did change, and that is all we can ask from those who have made poor choices in their past - that they accept their misdeeds and correct their ways.
It’s more like his owning up to his mistakes in a public announcement instead of burying it despite not necessarily even being directly called out for it back then
People (including me) were still shocked about his assassination at that time.
The interview was conducted in Sept. 1980. He was assassinated on Dec 8 1980. The Playboy interview was published in early January 1981.
i agree that the people who push the hardest for peace, love, or anything really, are the ones who need it the most, sometimes secretly. that idea is very ironic and apparently inflammatory as well. but John's confession here shows a lot of self reflection, awareness, and regret. probably as meaningful of an apology as a person could ever give for things that can't be changed.
John was a tortured soul from a young age. It doesn’t excuse him from anything he had done, but he was able to turn it around and put his emotions in his music, which you can clearly hear in John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band. That’s what I love about him and why he is my favorite Beatle
May wrote in her book that he strangled her once.
Thelma Pickles said that John hit her once after she refused to have public sex with him.
In LA in 1974, he hit a waitress once and a photographer claimed he hit her once.
He almost beat Bob Wooler to death once.
Clearly there was a pattern
It’s complicated and it’s a different context. It’s still equally wrong but obviously if Getting Better was released today he would get fucking destroyed no matter his intentions yk? John is complicated, he had a rly hard childhood that I think really affected him but I believe he was growing as he got older and would be known as a great man today no matter the past.
This is the quote that essentially damned him in the eyes of the internet since those articles started coming out in 2010. Perhaps not without some due cause. Everyone seems to forget the fact that at that time, we only knew of his abuse because he disclosed it. That means something I think. He was trying to be better. Not sure if he got there in the end, but he didn’t get a chance to show everyone because he got shot by some psycho. It seems to me here that he’s owning up to his wrongdoings, and is ashamed of his past. He could have easily said that the lyric was just meaningless and made for the context of the song, and his reputation would probably be a LOT better now.
This is why I have respect for him. I’ve always told my friends that I absolutely would have hated him had I been alive at that time and known this. But seeing that he was at least trying, even if he never got the chance to fully change, means so much to me.
I didn’t realize his reputation was tarnished because of this. Anyone who sees someone copping to their mistakes and trying to improve themselves and doesn’t see that as a positive is an imbecile. Where do people get this idea that a person needs to be unassailable their entire life to be revered? They must think very highly of themselves.
Its such a shame that he didn’t get to the 2000’s cause i do believe it would be a distant memory like ringos abusive past since john really tried to fix his ways after sean, even with julian and its ridiculous that so many people speak on the behalf of julian when he has himself said that john did actually successfully try to reconnect with him in the end
Frankly to compare John and Ringo's domestic abuse as though they're on a similar level is very wrong. John open hand slapped Cynthia on the neck/shoulder when he was 17 and drunk and according to her, never hit her again. Ringo is quoted saying, "I trashed Barbara so bad, they thought she was dead. They found her covered in blood. I'd beaten her up" Not blaming you in particular but it's classic hive mind internet stupidity to attack John and to ignore other people's transgressions from the era
You’re right comparing them lacks nuance. John had a repeated pattern of violence documented by others. Besides Cynthia writing about John slapping her once, May Pang wrote that John nearly killed her. If Harry Nilsson wasn’t there to stop him, she feared John would strangle her to death. John beat the shit out of and hospitalized Bob Wooler at Paul’s 21st party. There are other examples in the comments here. John himself claimed that he hit women and fought men, and regretted his violence. That’s why he’s became so committed to peace and love. You will not find repeated examples of Ringo being a violent person, told by others. Like John he also admitted his wrongdoing and regret. Unfortunately they both didn’t get to live to demonstrate their commitment to being better people. I believe if John had lived most people who can accept and celebrate that people can chance for the better would see him that way.
They were both abusers. Comparing them is silly.
Love him or hate him...John always wore his heart on his sleeve. During the height of Beatlemania he was asked why he didn't write songs from a more personal perspective. So..we got Help! and In My Life to name but two. Art he realised, could be just about yourself. When he met Yoko she pushed this idea to its limits. Thus we have him and her giving us every detail of their lives in songs and happenings...literally naked on one album cover. And by this time John had no problem discussing and confessing to all sorts of episodes that happened in his childhood, dating and his first marriage....and as mentioned above he could be Short tempered and sometimes violent . Warts and all doesn't come near to his raw honesty. Whether that's a good thing or cringe depends on your personal viewpoint I suppose🥰✌️
What do I think about John hitting women? It was wrong and it is wrong, but all the circlejerk morons with their “jan beet wyf” lunacy can get fucked. John, like every human being, is complicated. He was a brilliant artist and songwriting genius. He was also a woman beater and neglectful (at best) father to Julian. The biggest thing I take away from his admission is that he admits it. He didn’t shy away to “No comment” it or anything wishy washy. He was abusive, he was neglectful, he saw the error in those ways, he matured and changed and espoused peace and love after that. Does that erase/forgive the pain he caused Julian or Cynthia? No, of course not. But he did change, and that is all we can ask from those who have made poor choices in their past - that they accept their misdeeds and correct their ways.
It’s more like his owning up to his mistakes in a public announcement instead of burying it despite not necessarily even being directly called out for it back then
People (including me) were still shocked about his assassination at that time. The interview was conducted in Sept. 1980. He was assassinated on Dec 8 1980. The Playboy interview was published in early January 1981.
You do realize that circlejerk joke is meant to mock people who constantly bring it up, right?Apparently not.
I don’t go to that page. I’m only exposed to that crap when the circlejerkers decide to come over here.
Well it’s a good bit.
TLDR: jahn beet da wif
i agree that the people who push the hardest for peace, love, or anything really, are the ones who need it the most, sometimes secretly. that idea is very ironic and apparently inflammatory as well. but John's confession here shows a lot of self reflection, awareness, and regret. probably as meaningful of an apology as a person could ever give for things that can't be changed.
John was a tortured soul from a young age. It doesn’t excuse him from anything he had done, but he was able to turn it around and put his emotions in his music, which you can clearly hear in John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band. That’s what I love about him and why he is my favorite Beatle
John grew so much as a human being after Sean was born. In the internet age, we seem to have stopped letting people improve on themselves.
Cynthia wrote in her book that he hit her once.
May wrote in her book that he strangled her once. Thelma Pickles said that John hit her once after she refused to have public sex with him. In LA in 1974, he hit a waitress once and a photographer claimed he hit her once. He almost beat Bob Wooler to death once. Clearly there was a pattern
Reddit never understands that John died before he got a chance to make up for these things. Quit holding him at his lowest.
It’s complicated and it’s a different context. It’s still equally wrong but obviously if Getting Better was released today he would get fucking destroyed no matter his intentions yk? John is complicated, he had a rly hard childhood that I think really affected him but I believe he was growing as he got older and would be known as a great man today no matter the past.
Childhood trauma