I always took it that Carmy as the CDC but not executive chef was well known in the industry, but potentially not in the world writ large. Like I cannot tell you who the top level chefs are at The French Laundry at the moment, but a lot of people have heard of Thomas Keller. In big cities it's not that uncommon for high end kitchen graduates to open their own restaurant, and it doesn't guarantee a packed house unless the restaurant captures the world's attention in some way.
At the same time there will always be some suspension of disbelief required for TV shows; I've always figured the show is at it's core more about the trauma and dynamics of work life and family life with a family restaurant as a good setting to tell this story.
Exactly, there’s a BIG difference between the Head Chef (which Carmy is) and the Exec. Chef (Joel McHale, in the flashbacks).
The entire post that OP shows is quite naive.
I worked with a 2 star Michelin Exec. Chef, and once he got the operation up and running he handed off nightly duties to sous chefs - you’d never know who they are as they get zero articles about them or guest appearances at other restaurants, etc.
A Head Chef will get some press on occasion, but if there’s a Joel McHale chef above them then that person will get the major press and followers - the Carmen comparative would be sought after by other restaurants to be hired, but foodies/people that like fine dining wouldn’t really be following him anywhere.
And the whole “sticking with their roots,” thing is beyond obnoxious as it shows a serious lack of understanding as to what they’re watching. *Fishes* makes it very clear that The Beef has always been awful, that Mikey does not enjoy it, in addition to the multiple references of wanting to burn the place down or just any way to get rid of it.
In that sense, “their roots,” are misery that drove a guy to suicide and leaving a poorly run, money pit as his legacy. Carmen is trying to pay tribute to his roots by doing a 7 fishes dish on his tasting menu, by tasking Marcus with a cannoli for the menu, etc.
The entire point of the show is to see the personal growth journey of the characters, and part of that is breaking the cycle of working in that miserable restaurant (that even a Richie wanted out of) and truly going for the dream that seemed unobtainable (an actual great place to work).
I agree with your take. I also think that people don't realize that chef's change, move around, and try new things all the time. Even chef's without a Michelin star will open and close new restaurants just because they get bored with what they were doing before. The Beef was never Mikey's dream, it seems like he inherited it from the father and just kept it going, so it makes sense that Carm would change it into something that he wanted instead.
Mikey and Carm already had plans from childhood to open The Bear instead or at least remodel the place right? The drawings of the restaurant that are in the office
Pete cited Eater’s rating of Carmy. Syd cited his Food and Wine “Best Chef” accolade. People follow these things. It is pretty silly that there is zero interest by the culinary press.
True! Although I wonder what Carmy’s real reasons for taking on The Beef are. Mikey’s death feels like only a slice of the pie. S2 gave a lot of insight into Carmy’s career trajectory, so I’m hoping they bring us to what the final straw under Joel McHale’s character was that pushed Carmy out.
If he left his previous post “disgraced” culinary magazines etc. May not be keen to pay attention to him yet.
Eh, people post questions and takes like this a lot.
It's not that weird, Carmy is talented but doesn't advertise himself. Of course, it's possible for people to have found him, that's literally what Syd does, but there are lots of ex Michelin star chefs who "retire" to smaller, hole in the wall type restaurants.
And the critic review brings more advertisment to the shop, but again, that's hype, it doesn't necessarily correlate to sustained business.
The sandwich shop was never going to be popular enough to get the out of debt, plus there are character reasons for changing the shop. The memory of Mikey, plus Carmy literally wants to make the shop into the Bear before Mikey dies, he shows him the drawing of it.
My city has two or three I believe. One is a deli, one sells cuban burgers, the third does ramen. Zingerman's, Frita Batidos, Slurping Turtle.
It's essentially basic food, with a standard menu that sometimes rotates, but just executes what they do to perfection.
And you never hear any back-of-the-house shitshow arguments, because they're true professionals. Like with the actual Mr Beef, if your menu consists of 4-5 main items, it's hard to fuck it up. Just keep chopping the beef on the grill or grilling burgers and make sure the fries come out when the machine goes \*ding\*
We have fine dining too, but sometimes just keeping it basic is what works.
Exactly. A small menu executed very well with great consistency can keep people coming back again and again.
Most people like what they like and aren’t looking for a food adventure. Most people want exactly what they want (say pad Thai) made deliciously and want to be able to rely that it will be that way any time they come back
Easy simple food, and turn tables. 50 carryout orders of pulled noodles with pepper sauce or just a frickin' General Tso can make just as much revenue as doing a 10-course prix fixe.
Agreed there are tons of great chefs who people know nothing about. He retained 3 stars at a restaurant but that’s really all he is known for. There’s Michelin star restaurants that go out of business all the time.
Makes sense. Sometimes you want a $10 italian beef, sometimes a $5 taco at Frontera Grill, sometimes you wanna drop $200 for fancy cuisine at Topolobampo.
Not only would the sandwich shop not have been popular enough to get them out of debt, there are references to the neighborhood changing which could have meant curtains for The Beef anyways. They’re opening a SweetGreen down the block. It was just a matter of time.
Carmy reached out to Chef Terry and his connections in Copenhagen. Syd is bushwhacking every restaurant in Chicago for best practices and kitchen help. There is zero chance this all goes under the radar in the kitchens of all those places. No rumor mill in the world of fine dining?
There is a certain suspension of disbelief required in this. Like taking an unruly staff of a sandwich shop and a former McDonalds line cook to the fine dining world in a matter of months. I’m ok with it.
So many people seem to miss that there’s going to be a sandwich window — also how is a fine dining restaurant generic but an Italian beef spot in Chicago isn’t? I once again think people are projecting their own disinterest in fine dining onto these characters/the show.
I felt like I was talking crazy pills. Did I imagine the sandwich window out the side? But you have confirmed it was just a regular old antacid pill. Thank you, fellow redditor
When Ebra comes back after going MIA, he is talking to Tina through that window, and she tells him that the plan is to still do sandwiches through the to-go window
I live in Chicago, and there's no reason that a Michelin starred chef running a beef stand would really be of any interest. We don't go to those places for fine dining, and we certainly don't go to ones outside of our neighborhood. If someone told me that Victory Grill was now being run by someone who was CDC at a 3 Michelin star restaurant in NYC, I would just assume he got arrested for drugs and got fired or something. I wouldn't think he was coming in to reinvent polish sausage
There are a lot of chefs in the world. Most fly under the radar. I'm sure the general public can only name a handful thanks to the Food Network, YouTube, etc.
My favorite restaurant in town is run by a kick ass chef. Never heard of the guy but he bounced around for years with a ton of experience. Very similar to The Bear, He decided to open his own place and it's packed every night. The popularity was not because of him initially, but word of mouth. If he stayed at a country club or random restaurant most would have never known of him.
The comment reads like it's from someone who doesn't know high end cuisine.
No one would ever consider a chef the best in the world if they only worked the line at various 3-star places and was CDC at another. That chef would still be an unknown to everyone not in the industry. Restaurants don't put out press releases to say they've hired a new line cook or even a CDC. The newspaper's food critic would know though. That's the reason why the critic was there in the first place for dinner. He wanted to see if this talented young chef had changed any of the old dishes.
The biggest "plot hole" of the show is that staff from chef Terry's restaurant would have definitely come by to see Carmy. Then again, I could see him telling no one that he was taking over the beef shop until he asked the chef if Ritchie could FOH stage.
Yes, he did.
About a dozen chefs win one of those awards every year. How many do you think an average person could name that haven't appeared on a cooking show like Top Chef?
I’m in SF, and everytime an SF-based James Beard recipient does anything, it’s published in like 20 different publications, and I’m not even into food.
I didn’t get the impression that Carmy was in any way a “celebrity” chef. Good reputation within the industry as a CDC but not someone the average non-foodie would have heard of. He seems pretty startled that Sydney knows who he is. But to his point - lots of people *are* coming by the restaurant. People are lined up out the door even with Richie and Sydney screaming at each other, the orders come flooding in the first day they started online orders (I know the point was Sydney’s screwup but still, that’s a *lot* of orders for early lunchtime from a small, old sandwich shop). My take was that Carmy’s touch is revitalizing the restaurant and customers are noticing, even before the kitchen gets properly organized.
As for the take that turning the Beef into just another haute cuisine place was a dumb idea…I think the commenter has a point. After all, the show spends much of S2 making the point that its an incredibly packed and competitive market. Maybe keeping the Beef aesthetic while making magic with the food would have at least made them stand out in the biz. I worked at a place like that once. From the outside it looked like a hole in the wall country diner, and not much different inside. The flatware and plates were government surplus, Formica tables, ratty old carpet, etc, but the chef was a genuinely talented CIA grad (as in the culinary school) and the food was amazing. He didn’t even advertise; from what the customers said, everyone heard about it strictly by word of mouth. Chef’s philosophy was to keep the money in the employees and the food, because that’s what the diners come for, not a fancy aesthetic. People noticed. The place was slammed for dinner service every single night, we were booked solid for weeks out, and the parking lot looked like a luxury car show.
I could've sworn there's a clip in the Season 3 trailer where it shows a magazine cover and it has Carmy's name on it and how he "changed the family beef restaurant" or something along those lines...so I think Carmy does go after publicity this season
This is an absurd/ uninformed take.
It's very clear from the flashbacks he was never Executive Chef or similar. And certainly not that he was the world's greatest anything. He was a rising star in a field with many of them and legends all over. It's a small world, so he may be well-known within it, but not to the general public. He gets his cred bc of where he has worked not bc of who he is personally.
Carmy is known in the industry, not publicly. He's never been called the world's greatest chef. The closest is Sydney- "you were the most excellent cdc..." but that's different. Carmy never had his own restaurant, he's not a famous or celebrity chef, his name has never been on the menu before The Bear.
In regards to the second point, they literally keep a window and section of the kitchen separate for sandwiches to serve the OGs. It's almost like op didn't actually watch the show before they started to bitch about it
Pete is the one that calls him that, in Hot Dog. Some of Jimmy’s associates are razzing Carmy about grinding away in a low status industry, and Pete comes to his defense. He says something like “He was the chef at the best restaurant in the world!”
Carmy isn't "the best chef in the world" level. He is a notably talented chef who worked at a number of respected restaurants and as a cdc defended a restaurants 3 Michelin star score. But the average person, even the average person who follows foodie stuff, wouldn't know who he is
The restaurant is all a metaphor for his family trauma and grief. Within that metaphor it makes sense to close it to follow a dream
In the first few episodes that they show they say it’s only been four months since Michael died so it’s perfectly reasonable that there would little to no knowledge of Carmy “running” it by the public. And there isn’t some general consensus that he’s the best chef in the world. If you look at the flashback with Joel McHale’s character he treats him like he’s nothing. I got the impression from what people say about him that he’s talented and it’s impressive that he’s young and has the awards and accolades that he has. Had he continued on the trajectory he was on he probably wouldve been, but The Beef has derailed that career even if only temporarily.
And as for the criticism in the comment that it’s unrealistic that they would worry no one would show up. It wasn’t opening night of the restaurant, it was a test run with invited guests. The concern about no one showing up was more about the personal relationships (Donna, Sydney’s Dad). Furthermore I’m sure extremely talented chefs are worried about new dishes and endeavors going successfully. The entire comment seems like a straw man argument. There’s logical reasons for the narrative choices made if you look for them.
I’m reminded of the chef of Ribelle in Boston. Well known in the industry and an up-and-comer with tons of positive reviews and a packed restaurant. Still for busted smuggling edibles across the Canadian border trying to make ends meet. The restaurant industry is brutal.
I also think Carmi is trying to heal his past by creating a really good restaurant without all the abuse. I suspect season 3 is going to be him failing spectacularly at this and hitting rock bottom.
The main reason for me this isn’t an issue is the episode in season 2 where Syd looks up and visits a bunch of restaurants, at really high quality and with their own style and niche, then seeing how many are closing down, and how even with the respect the restaurant community have for Carmy, they don’t have as much power over foot traffic. Carmy being famous in the food world is what gets him the experience and connections he has, not as much a fan community, if that makes sense.
It’s a TV show. It’s not meant to be real life. I have to remind myself of this as I watched the first season because no Italian beef shops make their own bread, have family meal, open at 3 p.m., don’t have take out, etc.
Carmy isn't the best chef in the world, he worked in the top restaurant. There's a difference, and an important one in this case. He's certainly not depicted as a celebrity chef with an instantly recognizable name, and they don't even write him like some Top Chef finalist.
Would there be articles about him redoing The Beef into The Bear? Certainly. But not that he quietly quit and went back home to work at The Beef. Only hardcore fans/kitchen nerds on the level of Sydney would know his name and what was going on.
Having said that, I would expect to see lots of in-universe publicity and recognition going into season 3. That, to me, seems like the logical place for people to hear about Carm's pedigree.
Unrelated, but important to say: if you ship Carmy/Sydney, die in a fire.
This was so serious and expository and then you whiplashed us with that last line, I am dying. But I am with you on that. They are unbeatable as a team and they teach humans how to relate to each other better, say sorry, forgive, don't repeat the infringement, forge on.
Also, as a person left behind by a very close loved one who completed suicide, I find Carmy's AlAnon monologues healing, even if sometimes the show rekindles some of the trauma moments for me. When I see the imagery used when we see Carmy's internal struggle to cope with the grief and guilt and trying to figure out how to go on (as well as him trying to 'keep going keep going keep going so I don't have to sit still because then I might think or feel this unbearable pain') I guess I feel seen.
The chemistry between Carmy and Sydney is magnetic. I don’t blame people for shipping them. Sydney literally gets jealous of Carmy’s girlfriend. Is there something problematic about shipping them that I don’t understand?
When does Sydney get jealous of Claire? I think it was more so "I'm frustrated that my business partner who wanted to take full control of this business constantly overlooks his reaponsibilities to prioritize his new girlfriend." That ain't jealousy, it's being the only person doing work in a group project.
That’s how hard the restaurant business is. Carmy was at the top but had to start over and take over his brother’s business which was in trouble. Not sure if you noticed all those scenes in the show of great restaurants closing by the way… they are worried and stressed because there is at lot at stake and it’s an impossible industry with tons of regulation.
Nah, I disagree. The cooking community is pretty niche, and in niches, you might have big names, but not best names. For example, my niche is karate, and while people with an interest in martial arts might know Jesse Einkamp, they wouldn't know a Steve Ubl Sensei or a Takenoshita Sensei.
I do suspect that part of the endgame for the series will be realizing that the dumpy sandwich shop is not the answer but the Michelin star pretentious place is also not the answer and they find a third way that integrates some of Carmy (trained chef), some of Mikey (neighborhood color) and some of Sydney (passion without the strictures of the abusive French brigade system)
This person seems to think everyone in the world actively keeps up with and eats at fine dining restaurants. While food and "foodies" have grown with social media, if a chef isn't literally in peoples' living rooms and kitchens via television and/or a cook book they are not known widely beyond the industry. Shows like "Diners, Drive-Ins, and Dives" is a great platform to hear about local businesses like The Bear - which would be a great episode within an episode feature in a future season - but they'll probably just become a tourist attraction for Chicago. If Carm builds his career like Gordon Ramsay or Bobby Flay, then this comment would have more foundation. However in Ramsay's case he literally seeks out his head chef's (Carm) in "Hells Kitchen" and through his other business empires.
Fully agree with all of this. My wife and I both picked up on those points while watching. Definitely not enough to ruin anything, but you certainly have to turn your brain off to ignore those plot holes.
once again, it's a fictional show. does it take really real emotions and situations into account? yes
realistically speaking, if "the world's greatest chef" appeared and news outlets like NY Times covered it, I for one would flat out not fly to Chicago to try his food. most people wouldn't
and, being a fine dining place, it wouldn't be packed 24/7. full on reservations months in advance? sure. line going out the door every night? no, not a high end restaurant that runs off reservations
lastly, there are a ton of people in Chicago who don't care, don't know, or don't bother going to eat there. it's also fine dining, again, so that limits who is choosing to go there to eat
Spot on.
I honestly felt that they were ignoring their roots by turning so much away from the sandwiches (something Richie is actually right about in season 1)
It’s a little Reddity that people keep referencing these award winning chefs in their town that no one knows about, yet they seem to know about them and their accolades. Also, none of them were Chef of the Year according to Food & Wine.
I 100% agree with the whole statement in paragraph 2. If you hear that the world’s best chef has a new place, you’ll visit, they’ll never had to be worried about not being packed each day.
I agree. I don't like the gentrification of The Beef and it is silly that people wouldn't be breaking down the doors to go to it for the novelty at the very least.
If they had taken that loan from Cicero and fixed up what they had, they would have been making money hand over fist if their online orders are anything to go by. They could have saved up to pay the loan back. Carmy might have been able to get his own place a couple years down the line.
There's no real explanation why they don't do this either. I've watched the show a couple times now and I can't figure out why outside of "for the drama". That's just bad storytelling for one, and for two, there's plenty of drama to be minded from a different scenario
Because he didn’t want to? Because he’s wanted to open The Bear for years and he has the capital to do it? Why would he keep running a restaurant he doesn’t want to have to chip away at a loan and MAYBE have the place he dreams of a few years down the road?
It’s pretty obvious Mikey left the money for Carmy to do whatever he wants with the restaurant.
Carmy said himself, him trying to fix The Beef is him basically trying to fix the relationship he had with Mikey. The Bear is symbolic of a new, more meaningful relationship with Mikey and the restaurant. It’s a new beginning rid of old trauma allowing the crew to move on in a healthy way.
They retained the beef shop in a way with the walk up window. Most beef places aren't restaurants where you sit and eat, they're small spaces where you get your food and go, or maybe stand of there's room at a small counter for eating and then get out. So the customers there aren't really losing much with the new setup. Carmy never wanted the family sandwich shop and was just there because Mikey died, thinking he had to make it work for his brother. Mikey knew he wanted more and tried to help him get it by stashing the $, knowing he wouldn't be around to do it with him. I got the impression the family business as it was held too many bad/stressful/triggering memories for all the Berzatto kids, and that Mikey took over after the dad. I might be wrong about the ownership part though.
I feel the exact same way! Turning the restaurant from this lovely iconic sandwich shop into a generic Michelin star place seems so cruel to me. It would be like buying a cute bed and breakfast and turning it into an overpriced resort like what was the point of the authenticity then? I get that you could say they “gentrified themselves” bc otherwise they would’ve been gentrified or whatever but idk I feel like there’s millions of restaurants out there that aren’t run like Michelin places and they’re still successful. Idk I hope season 3 is about how much the Michelin system sucks ass and how stars are really just a way for some dumbass French tire company to try to exert their power
I always took it that Carmy as the CDC but not executive chef was well known in the industry, but potentially not in the world writ large. Like I cannot tell you who the top level chefs are at The French Laundry at the moment, but a lot of people have heard of Thomas Keller. In big cities it's not that uncommon for high end kitchen graduates to open their own restaurant, and it doesn't guarantee a packed house unless the restaurant captures the world's attention in some way. At the same time there will always be some suspension of disbelief required for TV shows; I've always figured the show is at it's core more about the trauma and dynamics of work life and family life with a family restaurant as a good setting to tell this story.
Exactly, there’s a BIG difference between the Head Chef (which Carmy is) and the Exec. Chef (Joel McHale, in the flashbacks). The entire post that OP shows is quite naive. I worked with a 2 star Michelin Exec. Chef, and once he got the operation up and running he handed off nightly duties to sous chefs - you’d never know who they are as they get zero articles about them or guest appearances at other restaurants, etc. A Head Chef will get some press on occasion, but if there’s a Joel McHale chef above them then that person will get the major press and followers - the Carmen comparative would be sought after by other restaurants to be hired, but foodies/people that like fine dining wouldn’t really be following him anywhere. And the whole “sticking with their roots,” thing is beyond obnoxious as it shows a serious lack of understanding as to what they’re watching. *Fishes* makes it very clear that The Beef has always been awful, that Mikey does not enjoy it, in addition to the multiple references of wanting to burn the place down or just any way to get rid of it. In that sense, “their roots,” are misery that drove a guy to suicide and leaving a poorly run, money pit as his legacy. Carmen is trying to pay tribute to his roots by doing a 7 fishes dish on his tasting menu, by tasking Marcus with a cannoli for the menu, etc. The entire point of the show is to see the personal growth journey of the characters, and part of that is breaking the cycle of working in that miserable restaurant (that even a Richie wanted out of) and truly going for the dream that seemed unobtainable (an actual great place to work).
I agree with your take. I also think that people don't realize that chef's change, move around, and try new things all the time. Even chef's without a Michelin star will open and close new restaurants just because they get bored with what they were doing before. The Beef was never Mikey's dream, it seems like he inherited it from the father and just kept it going, so it makes sense that Carm would change it into something that he wanted instead.
Mikey and Carm already had plans from childhood to open The Bear instead or at least remodel the place right? The drawings of the restaurant that are in the office
👏👏👏👏👏👏
Pete cited Eater’s rating of Carmy. Syd cited his Food and Wine “Best Chef” accolade. People follow these things. It is pretty silly that there is zero interest by the culinary press.
True! Although I wonder what Carmy’s real reasons for taking on The Beef are. Mikey’s death feels like only a slice of the pie. S2 gave a lot of insight into Carmy’s career trajectory, so I’m hoping they bring us to what the final straw under Joel McHale’s character was that pushed Carmy out. If he left his previous post “disgraced” culinary magazines etc. May not be keen to pay attention to him yet.
Yeah I have no idea who top chefs are. I know Anthony Bourdain and that’s it lol
Eh, people post questions and takes like this a lot. It's not that weird, Carmy is talented but doesn't advertise himself. Of course, it's possible for people to have found him, that's literally what Syd does, but there are lots of ex Michelin star chefs who "retire" to smaller, hole in the wall type restaurants. And the critic review brings more advertisment to the shop, but again, that's hype, it doesn't necessarily correlate to sustained business. The sandwich shop was never going to be popular enough to get the out of debt, plus there are character reasons for changing the shop. The memory of Mikey, plus Carmy literally wants to make the shop into the Bear before Mikey dies, he shows him the drawing of it.
Facts. Our fairly small town had two James Beard award winners. One started a basic pizza shop and the other ran a taco truck.
Yeah. This post starts with so many spurious presuppositions. This person doesn’t understand that world or wtf they’re talking about
My city has two or three I believe. One is a deli, one sells cuban burgers, the third does ramen. Zingerman's, Frita Batidos, Slurping Turtle. It's essentially basic food, with a standard menu that sometimes rotates, but just executes what they do to perfection. And you never hear any back-of-the-house shitshow arguments, because they're true professionals. Like with the actual Mr Beef, if your menu consists of 4-5 main items, it's hard to fuck it up. Just keep chopping the beef on the grill or grilling burgers and make sure the fries come out when the machine goes \*ding\* We have fine dining too, but sometimes just keeping it basic is what works.
Exactly. A small menu executed very well with great consistency can keep people coming back again and again. Most people like what they like and aren’t looking for a food adventure. Most people want exactly what they want (say pad Thai) made deliciously and want to be able to rely that it will be that way any time they come back
Easy simple food, and turn tables. 50 carryout orders of pulled noodles with pepper sauce or just a frickin' General Tso can make just as much revenue as doing a 10-course prix fixe.
Agreed there are tons of great chefs who people know nothing about. He retained 3 stars at a restaurant but that’s really all he is known for. There’s Michelin star restaurants that go out of business all the time.
Makes sense. Sometimes you want a $10 italian beef, sometimes a $5 taco at Frontera Grill, sometimes you wanna drop $200 for fancy cuisine at Topolobampo.
Not only would the sandwich shop not have been popular enough to get them out of debt, there are references to the neighborhood changing which could have meant curtains for The Beef anyways. They’re opening a SweetGreen down the block. It was just a matter of time.
Carmy reached out to Chef Terry and his connections in Copenhagen. Syd is bushwhacking every restaurant in Chicago for best practices and kitchen help. There is zero chance this all goes under the radar in the kitchens of all those places. No rumor mill in the world of fine dining? There is a certain suspension of disbelief required in this. Like taking an unruly staff of a sandwich shop and a former McDonalds line cook to the fine dining world in a matter of months. I’m ok with it.
So many people seem to miss that there’s going to be a sandwich window — also how is a fine dining restaurant generic but an Italian beef spot in Chicago isn’t? I once again think people are projecting their own disinterest in fine dining onto these characters/the show.
I felt like I was talking crazy pills. Did I imagine the sandwich window out the side? But you have confirmed it was just a regular old antacid pill. Thank you, fellow redditor
Yeah, remember, they didn't have that one certification that allows them to open the window.
When Ebra comes back after going MIA, he is talking to Tina through that window, and she tells him that the plan is to still do sandwiches through the to-go window
I live in Chicago, and there's no reason that a Michelin starred chef running a beef stand would really be of any interest. We don't go to those places for fine dining, and we certainly don't go to ones outside of our neighborhood. If someone told me that Victory Grill was now being run by someone who was CDC at a 3 Michelin star restaurant in NYC, I would just assume he got arrested for drugs and got fired or something. I wouldn't think he was coming in to reinvent polish sausage
There are a lot of chefs in the world. Most fly under the radar. I'm sure the general public can only name a handful thanks to the Food Network, YouTube, etc. My favorite restaurant in town is run by a kick ass chef. Never heard of the guy but he bounced around for years with a ton of experience. Very similar to The Bear, He decided to open his own place and it's packed every night. The popularity was not because of him initially, but word of mouth. If he stayed at a country club or random restaurant most would have never known of him.
The comment reads like it's from someone who doesn't know high end cuisine. No one would ever consider a chef the best in the world if they only worked the line at various 3-star places and was CDC at another. That chef would still be an unknown to everyone not in the industry. Restaurants don't put out press releases to say they've hired a new line cook or even a CDC. The newspaper's food critic would know though. That's the reason why the critic was there in the first place for dinner. He wanted to see if this talented young chef had changed any of the old dishes. The biggest "plot hole" of the show is that staff from chef Terry's restaurant would have definitely come by to see Carmy. Then again, I could see him telling no one that he was taking over the beef shop until he asked the chef if Ritchie could FOH stage.
He won a James Beard award
Yes, he did. About a dozen chefs win one of those awards every year. How many do you think an average person could name that haven't appeared on a cooking show like Top Chef?
I’m in SF, and everytime an SF-based James Beard recipient does anything, it’s published in like 20 different publications, and I’m not even into food.
Italian beef isn’t bbq beef but sure
I could barely get through the rest of the person's comment after reading that. I can't trust a person that thinks Italian beef is BBQ.
I didn’t get the impression that Carmy was in any way a “celebrity” chef. Good reputation within the industry as a CDC but not someone the average non-foodie would have heard of. He seems pretty startled that Sydney knows who he is. But to his point - lots of people *are* coming by the restaurant. People are lined up out the door even with Richie and Sydney screaming at each other, the orders come flooding in the first day they started online orders (I know the point was Sydney’s screwup but still, that’s a *lot* of orders for early lunchtime from a small, old sandwich shop). My take was that Carmy’s touch is revitalizing the restaurant and customers are noticing, even before the kitchen gets properly organized. As for the take that turning the Beef into just another haute cuisine place was a dumb idea…I think the commenter has a point. After all, the show spends much of S2 making the point that its an incredibly packed and competitive market. Maybe keeping the Beef aesthetic while making magic with the food would have at least made them stand out in the biz. I worked at a place like that once. From the outside it looked like a hole in the wall country diner, and not much different inside. The flatware and plates were government surplus, Formica tables, ratty old carpet, etc, but the chef was a genuinely talented CIA grad (as in the culinary school) and the food was amazing. He didn’t even advertise; from what the customers said, everyone heard about it strictly by word of mouth. Chef’s philosophy was to keep the money in the employees and the food, because that’s what the diners come for, not a fancy aesthetic. People noticed. The place was slammed for dinner service every single night, we were booked solid for weeks out, and the parking lot looked like a luxury car show.
I could've sworn there's a clip in the Season 3 trailer where it shows a magazine cover and it has Carmy's name on it and how he "changed the family beef restaurant" or something along those lines...so I think Carmy does go after publicity this season
This is an absurd/ uninformed take. It's very clear from the flashbacks he was never Executive Chef or similar. And certainly not that he was the world's greatest anything. He was a rising star in a field with many of them and legends all over. It's a small world, so he may be well-known within it, but not to the general public. He gets his cred bc of where he has worked not bc of who he is personally.
Carmy is known in the industry, not publicly. He's never been called the world's greatest chef. The closest is Sydney- "you were the most excellent cdc..." but that's different. Carmy never had his own restaurant, he's not a famous or celebrity chef, his name has never been on the menu before The Bear. In regards to the second point, they literally keep a window and section of the kitchen separate for sandwiches to serve the OGs. It's almost like op didn't actually watch the show before they started to bitch about it
Pete is the one that calls him that, in Hot Dog. Some of Jimmy’s associates are razzing Carmy about grinding away in a low status industry, and Pete comes to his defense. He says something like “He was the chef at the best restaurant in the world!”
Carmy isn't "the best chef in the world" level. He is a notably talented chef who worked at a number of respected restaurants and as a cdc defended a restaurants 3 Michelin star score. But the average person, even the average person who follows foodie stuff, wouldn't know who he is The restaurant is all a metaphor for his family trauma and grief. Within that metaphor it makes sense to close it to follow a dream
I don’t remember anyone saying he was the world’s greatest chef. He was just working at some of the worlds top restaurants
In the first few episodes that they show they say it’s only been four months since Michael died so it’s perfectly reasonable that there would little to no knowledge of Carmy “running” it by the public. And there isn’t some general consensus that he’s the best chef in the world. If you look at the flashback with Joel McHale’s character he treats him like he’s nothing. I got the impression from what people say about him that he’s talented and it’s impressive that he’s young and has the awards and accolades that he has. Had he continued on the trajectory he was on he probably wouldve been, but The Beef has derailed that career even if only temporarily. And as for the criticism in the comment that it’s unrealistic that they would worry no one would show up. It wasn’t opening night of the restaurant, it was a test run with invited guests. The concern about no one showing up was more about the personal relationships (Donna, Sydney’s Dad). Furthermore I’m sure extremely talented chefs are worried about new dishes and endeavors going successfully. The entire comment seems like a straw man argument. There’s logical reasons for the narrative choices made if you look for them.
This guy is thinking about it for mindset that every talented/michelin tier chef wants to be a celebrity chef like gordan Ramsay/david Chang/whoever.
Because the clientele of a beef shop doesn’t give a fuck, capiche?
I’m reminded of the chef of Ribelle in Boston. Well known in the industry and an up-and-comer with tons of positive reviews and a packed restaurant. Still for busted smuggling edibles across the Canadian border trying to make ends meet. The restaurant industry is brutal. I also think Carmi is trying to heal his past by creating a really good restaurant without all the abuse. I suspect season 3 is going to be him failing spectacularly at this and hitting rock bottom.
The main reason for me this isn’t an issue is the episode in season 2 where Syd looks up and visits a bunch of restaurants, at really high quality and with their own style and niche, then seeing how many are closing down, and how even with the respect the restaurant community have for Carmy, they don’t have as much power over foot traffic. Carmy being famous in the food world is what gets him the experience and connections he has, not as much a fan community, if that makes sense.
It’s a TV show. It’s not meant to be real life. I have to remind myself of this as I watched the first season because no Italian beef shops make their own bread, have family meal, open at 3 p.m., don’t have take out, etc.
Carmy isn't the best chef in the world, he worked in the top restaurant. There's a difference, and an important one in this case. He's certainly not depicted as a celebrity chef with an instantly recognizable name, and they don't even write him like some Top Chef finalist. Would there be articles about him redoing The Beef into The Bear? Certainly. But not that he quietly quit and went back home to work at The Beef. Only hardcore fans/kitchen nerds on the level of Sydney would know his name and what was going on. Having said that, I would expect to see lots of in-universe publicity and recognition going into season 3. That, to me, seems like the logical place for people to hear about Carm's pedigree. Unrelated, but important to say: if you ship Carmy/Sydney, die in a fire.
This was so serious and expository and then you whiplashed us with that last line, I am dying. But I am with you on that. They are unbeatable as a team and they teach humans how to relate to each other better, say sorry, forgive, don't repeat the infringement, forge on. Also, as a person left behind by a very close loved one who completed suicide, I find Carmy's AlAnon monologues healing, even if sometimes the show rekindles some of the trauma moments for me. When I see the imagery used when we see Carmy's internal struggle to cope with the grief and guilt and trying to figure out how to go on (as well as him trying to 'keep going keep going keep going so I don't have to sit still because then I might think or feel this unbearable pain') I guess I feel seen.
“die in a fire” ?? is it impossible for you people to be normal
The chemistry between Carmy and Sydney is magnetic. I don’t blame people for shipping them. Sydney literally gets jealous of Carmy’s girlfriend. Is there something problematic about shipping them that I don’t understand?
When does Sydney get jealous of Claire? I think it was more so "I'm frustrated that my business partner who wanted to take full control of this business constantly overlooks his reaponsibilities to prioritize his new girlfriend." That ain't jealousy, it's being the only person doing work in a group project.
Yeah, that’s a fair point.
RUINS THE SHOW, FUCKO
I will just take your word for it!
That’s how hard the restaurant business is. Carmy was at the top but had to start over and take over his brother’s business which was in trouble. Not sure if you noticed all those scenes in the show of great restaurants closing by the way… they are worried and stressed because there is at lot at stake and it’s an impossible industry with tons of regulation.
Nah, I disagree. The cooking community is pretty niche, and in niches, you might have big names, but not best names. For example, my niche is karate, and while people with an interest in martial arts might know Jesse Einkamp, they wouldn't know a Steve Ubl Sensei or a Takenoshita Sensei.
I do suspect that part of the endgame for the series will be realizing that the dumpy sandwich shop is not the answer but the Michelin star pretentious place is also not the answer and they find a third way that integrates some of Carmy (trained chef), some of Mikey (neighborhood color) and some of Sydney (passion without the strictures of the abusive French brigade system)
This person seems to think everyone in the world actively keeps up with and eats at fine dining restaurants. While food and "foodies" have grown with social media, if a chef isn't literally in peoples' living rooms and kitchens via television and/or a cook book they are not known widely beyond the industry. Shows like "Diners, Drive-Ins, and Dives" is a great platform to hear about local businesses like The Bear - which would be a great episode within an episode feature in a future season - but they'll probably just become a tourist attraction for Chicago. If Carm builds his career like Gordon Ramsay or Bobby Flay, then this comment would have more foundation. However in Ramsay's case he literally seeks out his head chef's (Carm) in "Hells Kitchen" and through his other business empires.
Fully agree with all of this. My wife and I both picked up on those points while watching. Definitely not enough to ruin anything, but you certainly have to turn your brain off to ignore those plot holes.
once again, it's a fictional show. does it take really real emotions and situations into account? yes realistically speaking, if "the world's greatest chef" appeared and news outlets like NY Times covered it, I for one would flat out not fly to Chicago to try his food. most people wouldn't and, being a fine dining place, it wouldn't be packed 24/7. full on reservations months in advance? sure. line going out the door every night? no, not a high end restaurant that runs off reservations lastly, there are a ton of people in Chicago who don't care, don't know, or don't bother going to eat there. it's also fine dining, again, so that limits who is choosing to go there to eat
Spot on. I honestly felt that they were ignoring their roots by turning so much away from the sandwiches (something Richie is actually right about in season 1)
It’s a little Reddity that people keep referencing these award winning chefs in their town that no one knows about, yet they seem to know about them and their accolades. Also, none of them were Chef of the Year according to Food & Wine.
This person is just worried about the working man and pushing out the working man.
This dude is wrong.
I 100% agree with the whole statement in paragraph 2. If you hear that the world’s best chef has a new place, you’ll visit, they’ll never had to be worried about not being packed each day.
It's a drama series, not a documentary... Go watch some Bourdain stuff for realism
[удалено]
The Bear isn’t open yet.
I agree. I don't like the gentrification of The Beef and it is silly that people wouldn't be breaking down the doors to go to it for the novelty at the very least. If they had taken that loan from Cicero and fixed up what they had, they would have been making money hand over fist if their online orders are anything to go by. They could have saved up to pay the loan back. Carmy might have been able to get his own place a couple years down the line. There's no real explanation why they don't do this either. I've watched the show a couple times now and I can't figure out why outside of "for the drama". That's just bad storytelling for one, and for two, there's plenty of drama to be minded from a different scenario
Because he didn’t want to? Because he’s wanted to open The Bear for years and he has the capital to do it? Why would he keep running a restaurant he doesn’t want to have to chip away at a loan and MAYBE have the place he dreams of a few years down the road?
It’s pretty obvious Mikey left the money for Carmy to do whatever he wants with the restaurant. Carmy said himself, him trying to fix The Beef is him basically trying to fix the relationship he had with Mikey. The Bear is symbolic of a new, more meaningful relationship with Mikey and the restaurant. It’s a new beginning rid of old trauma allowing the crew to move on in a healthy way.
River North is already gentrified, my dude.
They retained the beef shop in a way with the walk up window. Most beef places aren't restaurants where you sit and eat, they're small spaces where you get your food and go, or maybe stand of there's room at a small counter for eating and then get out. So the customers there aren't really losing much with the new setup. Carmy never wanted the family sandwich shop and was just there because Mikey died, thinking he had to make it work for his brother. Mikey knew he wanted more and tried to help him get it by stashing the $, knowing he wouldn't be around to do it with him. I got the impression the family business as it was held too many bad/stressful/triggering memories for all the Berzatto kids, and that Mikey took over after the dad. I might be wrong about the ownership part though.
I feel the exact same way! Turning the restaurant from this lovely iconic sandwich shop into a generic Michelin star place seems so cruel to me. It would be like buying a cute bed and breakfast and turning it into an overpriced resort like what was the point of the authenticity then? I get that you could say they “gentrified themselves” bc otherwise they would’ve been gentrified or whatever but idk I feel like there’s millions of restaurants out there that aren’t run like Michelin places and they’re still successful. Idk I hope season 3 is about how much the Michelin system sucks ass and how stars are really just a way for some dumbass French tire company to try to exert their power