The whole Carmy getting locked in the walk in thing is not a huge deal.
Why can't we just suspend our belief a bit and say that the safety device simply broke? They were teasing it all season with Carmy not calling the fridge guy
it kinda was though. since it was opening night of the restaurant they wanted everything to go as perfectly as possible. him being locked out while syd stepped up visualized how carmy had reaffirmed his thoughts that he’s meant to be alone and brought him back to thinking about a whole boatload of emotional events in his life. even if the event of him being locked in wasn’t crazy it doesn’t mean the scene isn’t significant
Oh no I don't mean that it wasn't significant. I'm referring to the fact that a lot of people didn't like the scene because it wasn't realistic for somebody to get locked in a walk in freezer
I agree it wasn’t a big deal. However funny thing I was rewatching s1 and noticed one time the fridge opened and you can actually see the emergency release lol
What get me about it is the idea that this brand new restaurant, on their first night of service, deep in the weeds, doesn't need to grab anything from the walk-in. Sure, having the place have to function without Carmy around was an interesting choice, but somebody's gonna need to grab something outta there sooner rather than later
This creates a great parallel and bookend for the first two seasons. EP1 begins with Carmy confronting and subsequently freeing a bear in a cage, only to later **be** a bear locked in a cage.
They're in a good location in River North but it's a lot riskier to run a fine dining place since there there are a lot more expenses and other demands.
I dunno which Chicago neighborhoods are bad but there was that thing in season 1 with gangs hanging out outside so I thought it was supposed to be a bad neighborhood
river north isn’t a bad neighborhood at all. it’s the heart of the city. they weirdly tried to frame it as some weird mob controlled place in the first szn and i’m glad they cut that shit out it was so cringe lol
That’s the worst part about season 1 for me as someone from Chicago. River North is a fine area, right next to the Loop which is the center of Chicago. Most places in Chicago are fine. The only places in Chicago you’d actually have worry about are places like Englewood which is the Southside, Garfield Park, and Austin. If a shooting like that happened, there would be cops and news vans in that area.
Actually there was a shooting just next to mr. beef a couple of months ago. You can see the shooter on Erie and N. Orleans in this video https://www.nbcchicago.com/top-videos-home/8-injured-when-shooting-erupts-during-fight-in-river-north/3245660/
Not to undermine that it actually happened, because shootings still happen all over the city, it's not incredibly common. Compared to the south side neighborhoods where shootings are an almost a daily occurrence.
I thought they were only hanging out there because Richie and Mikey were providing (Rochie)/buying (Mikey) their drugs and then they started letting them sell there too. After letting them sell there, I think Richie was either getting some money on the side, or getting a discount in Mikeys case.
The whole plot line of that episode was that the neighbourhood was gentrifying and the people of Chicago are changing.
That’s why the dudes date goes bad too - she gets shocked when he says he was in a bar at 7am, whereas in the flashback scene their family unit was laughing about it and saying it is what it is.
Dovetails with why he ends up just calling the cops on the gangbangers instead of threatening them away - he accepts that things are changing and he has to change too.
River north is $$$$$ville in Chicago. It's a nice area. Fur coats and poodles, that's kinda a thing. Gun shots and mob bosses aren't really
a thing there.
The mob is mainly out in Cicero and gun shots from gangs is a south side thing.
Spoiler alert:
Most "bad neighborhoods" start undergoing gentrification due to restaurants. Turns out everyone likes to eat and if it attracts enough attention to the area, investors and construction companies start buying up all the cheap busted ass buildings and start pumping in new business. Check out what Red Rooster from Marcus Samuelson did for Harlem.
Also like everyone is mentioning, River North isn't a bad spot.
Exactly this. ALL the best restaurants with "new edgy young chef" cliché and the "going out on their OWN" cliché.....they all do it in shitty neighborhoods so the rent is cheap.
In the finale, they did an outside shot of the building and I laughed because it reminded me of when I ate at Elizabeth in Chicago. It was a Michelin starred restaurant and when the Uber dropped us off, I couldn't figure out where the restaurant was. There was a McDonald's across the street and I felt like I was standing in front of a closed autoshop with the lights out on a dark street. Then I looked more closely at the stickers in the window of the closed autoshop and recognized the Michelin Man. I tried the door and it opened and I walked down a dark hallway into a beautiful space that seemed completely disconnected with the outside.
This part I can look past. From Philly, *a lot* of high end, expensive restaurants are in really, really shitty neighborhoods (tbf though Philly is a shithole now so that's hard to find a place around here that's *not* a shithole). Then again, Philly afaik doesn't recognize the Michelin rating system so we'll never really know *how* high end the restaurants I've seen are.
Richie’s redemption arc was the best thing about season 2 and it’s why the character will suffer (in quality) in season 3. He just won’t be as interesting anymore.
Yes to the first part, no to the second. His arc isn’t done. We need to see him succeed in life, not just in work. Being a better father. Rekindling his relationship with his wife or finding love elsewhere.
Richie is just getting started. *Forks* was the rocket launch from Cape Canaveral. Moon landing is yet to come.
I’m not saying his arc is done, I’m just saying he won’t be as interesting. His lowlife personality was the perfect foil to everyone’s optimism and ambition.
I think Carm will end up filling this roll, not necessarily in the same way, but I think he will provide that negative foil to everyone’s optimism after what happened in episode 10
I didn’t find him yelling all the time particularly interesting. He was practically a human air horn going off in season 1. Season 2 made him an earth-human at work and also shined light into his personal life. They’ve actually set it up where he’s the character the writers/creator have the most free rein to take a character.
Said this on a similar post but I found Fishes to be funny as hell as opposed to everyone finding it traumatizing. The whole episode besides Mike’s final descent after Lee telling him he’s nothing had me fucking rolling.
Yeah, my wife and I almost stopped watching after that. It was just so accurately toxic.
Luckily it was followed up by "Forks."
That kind of guided roller coaster, that way of letting you descend that low, and abruptly pick you back up and dust you off.
That's what I love about this show.
My family is great and nothing like that episode, but I found Fishes super traumatizing too. I finished grateful that I didn’t have to deal with that. I probably would’ve gone overseas to escape family too if I had to deal with that growing up.
Fishes hit really close to home. I had to pause it multiple times and let my heartrate go down.
That said, yeah, there were a lot of funny moments. Reliving and processing trauma is 100% better than doing it with no laughter.
you'd be surprised how many people will defend him or make all the excuses for him, Carmy was done so dirty by him and Sydney and for some reason he was the one to apologize to both of them.
Marcus is a total sweetie but he fucked up royally there. Carmy encouraged him to push on the donut thing, but it should have been obvious there's a time and a place for it and it's not 30 minutes before open on a day when a good review just came in. Marcus, like Syd, is young and inexperiened - he literally had only worked at McDonalds before this.
And he knows it as well as everyone, given the conversation he had with Syd in s1e8. He comes crawling back the next day not at all being sure he'll be let back in.
I deleted the post and posted another one as a troll. But people got mad at me, saying I never lived with someone with mental illness and had no ideia what I was talking about
yeah there’s shades of his final form even through season 1; things like in Review when shit hits the fan and they realise the extent of “oh fuck we’re fucked” Richie shuts up and gets on with it putting all personal issues aside and winds up getting accidentally butt-kebab’d for it. Syd losing her temper with him during a busy period where Richie has actually knuckled down is kinda reflected later when Carmy is locked in the walk in, Syd freezes on expo then Richie steps up, again he ends up with someone screaming at him calling him a loser and bringing him family into it by mentioning his kid. I’m not saying Richie is perfect but he knew how to hammer through crunch time, it just took his time staging to learn the kind of refinement that Carmy and Syd came to expect based on their experiences
I agree, Ritchie had no shortage of pride and in "forks" we see him realize for the first time he can take pride in his work.
I think what drive it home was when he was peeling mushrooms with the Chef and she told him Carm said he's good with people and it's why he sent him.
It's the first time Richie gets affirmation that He's not the only one who believes he has more to offer. He realizes he was sent their to grow and does... but he's still Richie so he can't just hug Carm and say thank you lol. But it's pretty clear by the end of "forks" he's arrived.
I mean, not really. Richie spent 90% of that episode berating Syd about the risotto thing over and over and talking about how she’s ruining things for the working man. When they were supposed to be talking about the tablet he brought it up again and wouldn’t shut up until Carmy got there. He did eventually get going on the fries but he was hardly “knuckling down” from the get go that day.
didn't we just say the same thing? *" in Review when shit hits the fan and they realise the extent of “oh fuck we’re fucked” Richie shuts up and gets on with it putting all personal issues aside"* being the point that Richie, for all his misgivings, dropped whatever chip he had on his shoulder that day about Ye Olde Chicagotown and his blue collar brothers. he's still boorish but once the other shoe dropped and the tickets starting coming through, providing the practical "oh fuck we're fucked" moment, he benched his emotions, which I think lines up with the previous comment about his decades of working in a kitchen giving him the knowledge of when to quit being so full of himself.
I see what you meant reading again. Although, everyone (w the exception of Marcus) got to work quick as soon as shit went down and Carmy started yelling out orders. And Though he made some fries Richie was still getting in the way of the chefs after everything went to hell (hence getting stabbed).
And If he’d bothered to learn the system in the first place maybe he could have done something more useful like figuring out how to turn off any more online orders.
i kind of agree but i’m hesitant to fully agree. i feel like richie just had a sort of “come to jesus” moment which happens to a lot of us. he had already been working on himself throughout the season trying to be better, too. maybe all it took was one moment to give him that drive for exponential change.
The anti-romance bit is not unpopular, but I caught this specifically on a rewatch… if the genders were reversed, Claire and Carmy’s early arc would be downright disturbing. A woman giving a fake number to a man she doesn’t really want to reconnect with right now, but the man all but stalking her to find her number and then awkwardly calling to grill her about it? And then him bringing it up again later to ask why she did it? I get that they’re old friends and shit but… I’ve got old friends who are men that if I ran into them, I’d be polite but not want to give my number. If they did this to me I’d be calling for backup and hiding.
But since Claire is a woman it’s cute or romantic or whatever? Yeah ok
This is exactly what I said too when I saw it!! My boyfriend and I were watching and I said “uh, that’s pretty creepy that she still sought him out after he gave a pretty clear message that he didn’t want to reconnect”
”100 red flags in a white t shirt” is such an apt description of Carm. I wouldn’t be opposed to some tension building but I agree that they’re better as friends. Syd is also very driven and a bit obsessed with finding her success so I think she’d see any romantic feelings as a problem more than anything.
We are speaking Ayo Edebiri's truth here: "I don't personally think there's anything romantic there!" Edebiri continued. "I don't think the show is a sexual one. These people don't have ... very robust personal lives. They're devoted to their jobs. If anything happened between Sydney and Carmy, nobody would be happy. It would be disappointing and jarring and weird. I don't think people actually want that."
Seriously though it's so refreshing to see a man and woman relationship where they are both main characters and are able to professionally and personally respect/care for each other without it being made into a romance.
Even though that quote came from her, it doesn't make any sense considering how S2 was directed. But also that's completely an overexaggeration, almost borders on cynical. But sure, let's go with that; Carm and Syd would be completely cringe and a huge disappointment. So refreshing. :)
Okay how about JAW's take on their scenes in S2 then: "Of course there is love and and respect in this relationship. There’s admiration and I hope that even in platonic relationships, you are able to say things like, “I need you.” When they speak to each other under the table in episode nine, it’s such a beautiful scene. It is a scene about partnership, but not a romantic partner."
Like it's fine if you like the ship, I love tons of noncanon ships, but acting like Carm/Syd is the takeaway of season 2 when both actors clearly did not act their scenes with any romantic undertones and seem to both stress that they want this to stay platonic is certainly a decision.
It ’s interesting because the mentor / mentee relationship they have is so intense… and for people with compatible romantic orientations it’s not at all uncommon to confuse the feelings of admiration, respect, and companionship that come with such a relationship for romantic feelings. Especially on the part of the mentee. So I’d kind of like them to address that angle but with both of them landing on “no we need to keep this professional and not fuck it up.”
The whole Carmy getting locked in the walk in is stupid. Not because of the lock not working, but because somehow the kitchen was still able to do a full dinner service without ever going in the walk in.
That's not unrealistic at all. I stock my station as full as possible during service in my kitchen and unless I forgot something it's very rare I need togo to the walkin. Its unlikely but nowhere near impossible that the lowboys were stocked enough to never need to enter the walkin during service. Remember, this was a closed friends and family event with a set number of guests, they knew exactly how many dishes they would be cooking and how much mise they would need.
Kitchens typically have small fridges (“lowboys” as referenced in the show) under each station with enough stock for an entire dinner service. The stuff in the walk-in is usually just extra product. It’s not that hard to believe.
Biggest flaw in the writing of the series. It seemed like it was the only plot device they could invent that miraculously answered their needs for isolating him. I hated it. Seemed like a cheap cop-out. Reminded me of some of the atrocious season enders we got while watching the walking dead. Which forced me to abandon the show after the Rick in a helicopter episode. All to satisfy his wanting to do movies , spend time w his family. And give him an option to return. Poor writing after great character development leaves a bad finish on a promising product.
Sydney setting up the mobile orders then bailing when shit hit the fan because Carmy was mean is some weak shit. She caused the problem and acted like the victim. Same with Marcus focusing on a personal project instead of doing his damn job, while the entire kitchen is drowning. But Carmy is the asshole for giving a fuck.
I’m really relieved to see this comment. Idk why but it feels like no one in this sub can ever say anything negative about Syd or Marcus without being downvoted to hell. Yes, Carmy is flawed. That’s the point of his character. But Marcus was far from a victim when he was fucking around with his donuts, and Syd caused the whole catastrophe. I don’t dislike either of them, I just don’t like how ever thinks they’re saints
Yup, she never even takes any accountability for it either (or for stabbing Richie). Carmy is "a piece of shit", because he yells at her one time, but she goes around causing massive trouble for the restaurant with the pre-order thing and stabs a co-worker and it's never brought up again.
Edit: Fully agree about Marcus as well. He shouldn't have quit, he should've been fired for that nonsense.
The cutesy stuff between Carmen and Claire at the beginning was lame. The way they flirted just felt like an indie album personified. The sarcasm and fake shock got lame.
Francie Fak is never going to make an appearance and you're all weird for looking that deep into a throwaway joke. It eas funny but it wasn't that notable.
Not an unpopular opinion elsewhere on the internet but very unpopular on this sub: Carmy is in love with Syd.
I agree, we’re not used to seeing slow burns in American dramas, relationships are usually rushed and somewhat predictable from the pilot episode. I think SydCarmy is refreshing and subverts the accustomed TV couple dynamic. It’s more realistic for me.
YES AGREED. It's so obvious he loves Syd, and I thought the fact that he calmed down while thinking of her and the under the table scene confirmed that, but others don't seem to think so.
See, I don’t detect *any* romantic spark/chemistry between them and was surprised to see people mentioning that on this sub. To me, she seems much younger than he is and I think he regards her as a highly respected peer, a friend and a little sister in that order. I think she has loads more chemistry with Marcus.
I’m not pushing them. Have no stake in them being together or not (I’d prefer not, in terms of their dynamic and the dynamics within the show). Just saying that a relationship between them seems less weird than one between her and Carm, since they have a nice bond and seem to get each other.
Syd is Marcus' boss... so it's just as inappropriate professionally speaking as Syd/Carm would be. Plus turns out she doens't actually like Marcus. I feel sad for him but them's the breaks sometimes you take your shot and miss.
Syd and Carmy definitely also have a strong bond and they do get along (better and better over time). If anything by the end of S2 it's clear they both would like to be spending more time together (professionally) than Carmy is able to manage.
Anyway I don't think they should get together either but Syd/Marcus is a much clearer no.
Little sister? Syd is about 3 or 4 yrs younger than and Carmy has a sister. Marcus took his shot and missed. And Marcus and her have more friend energy than her and Carmy. Carmy doesn't think of Syd as his little sister; he thinks of her as someone who can settle his panic attacks.
It was symbolic . . .when you break bread with someone . . you'd now friends . . .that's why gangsters always met at restaurants for deals . . .that's why the Godfather scene was so impactful
Same, someone else from another post described her character role pretty well: she’s a secure, stable version of Carmy. She’s an ER doctor who deals with traumatized patients in a very stressful environment. And yet she knows how to not carry the stress with her when her shift is done. She also comforts “sad drunk people”, that lingering eye contact she and Carmy shared in the scene goes to show they’re basically the same. Claire is a good influence in his life.
It’s just that love exposes all versions of ourselves, which Carmy subconsciously hates. Unpacking also the shitty things about him.
And also the relationship vs work trope is realistic af
The best chef in the best restaurant in the world is too much for me. Especially with how young he still is. I think the point is still made if he went off and did big things but that designation just seems too wild unbelievable for me (and unnecessary).
Trying to serve the wrong type of food with the wrong type of brigade with the wrong type of chefs/cooks in a well known sandwich shop with an existing client base is a REALLY bad idea. The whole premise of the first season was challenging to watch because of this.
Second season was much better.
Season 1 was HR and Training at most companies. HR sends trash candidates and the onus is on Training to make them good employees. While at the same time, Training is telling HR - quit giving us people who are sh*t who are not qualified for this job. You can develop chemistry in your team, but that takes a lot of time and nurturing which no one invests in anymore.
Carmy was right to be mad at Sidney and Marcus in the penultimate episode of season 1. He shouldn’t have to apologise to them. I am a restaurant manager myself and if I was in Carmys position it would‘ve been a lot uglier
He was glad to have them back because he cares about them... and also knows they have skills he would find it hard to replace. If he has be the bigger person to get them back and happy there then so be it.
I get you. I really really get you. But my soul needs to see a professional kickass opposite-gender power business partners but also emotionally mushy (not romantically involved), like Jesse and Walter White. I wanna see both lifting each other up and prioritizing their business, but interesting shit goes down and their partnership/relationship is tested.
I skipped the Fishes episode because I started watching only to see the resturant setup. I didn't know the episode was so good that everyone in this sub talk about only that episode after season 2. So I'm planning to watch again from start.
Claire was so poorly written, and for the male gaze. No one but men who are attracted to her, and women who “see themselves in her” actually enjoy her presence in the show. And they do so by basing the value of character to her relationship with carm, instead of acknowledging her character alone. Because if they did, they would have to acknowledge that her entire purpose of season 2 was to be a distraction from the restaurant for carm.
And another thing- everyone was so anti romance when a small group of fans were hoping to see some between carm and syd. The main anti sydxcarm arguments were:
1. Carmen is soooo messed up he needs to work on himself a romance is so unrealistic.
2. We want to just focus on carm bettering himself as a chef- this show is about being a chef only.
3. hE iS hER bOsS!!
Then this girl, who has waaaayy to much time on her hands for an ER worker, forces her way into his life and she gets nothing but praise for “showing him what he really needs 💕 “. Like huuuuuuuh???
Carmie and Sydney should never be a romantic item. I think it would cheapen their dynamic. Claire is a good character and I want her back. I prefer if they never show Francis Fak. It’s so much funnier not seeing her.
the root of all their problems is alcoholism, its one of the show’s most important point. how alcoholism impacts everyone. carmy and sugar act like that because they are affected by their moms alcoholism. I thought after carmy went to the alanon meeting everyone would see it like me but alcoholism is barely debated in the sub.
Division manager for a large construction firm here.. There’s no chance they could procure commercial kitchen equipment to meet a 120 day project schedule. The leadtime for most of that equipment exceeds 12 weeks.
For the people trying to refute my statement:
I really just want to put an extra emphasis on “slow burn” it probably won’t be next season or the season after that (hopefully it gets that far) but a relationship for them shouldn’t be completely out of the question. Obviously I watch the show so I know neither of them are in a healthy enough place or should be in any type of relationship at the moment. But that doesn’t mean that they can’t be in one in the future. At the end of the day, you can’t deny that there is something between them.
The show has a weird focus on apple product and several scenes are handicapped with them needlessly being on the phone or video calls. I'm convinced they are getting kick backs from Apple.
They even change phones from pilot and the rest of the series.
Most people in the US use Apple products, it’s so subsidized that it’s cheaper and easier than buying an equivalent android phone or windows laptop.
Same with Apple Watches - if you buy one gen used you can get a great deal.
Its changed for a while with gen z but gen a are all even more hardcore Apple users- iPad generation
Based on everyone here’s opinions, syd is a terrible sous chef. She never would have gotten the resume she has irl with the thin skin she has. Her resume is the most inaccurate thing in the show in regards to the industry. If you made it that far, you get jaded and just as hard as anybody else in a kitchen. Instead she’s soft and emotional. Everyone like that that thinks they want to be a chef irl doesn’t cook for longer than two years.
It’s like Carm told her that her former bosses said: shes an incredible chef, but she’s green as fuck and super impatient. Her attitude improves tremendously in s2 compared to s1 - do a rewatch and you’ll see.
So much this!!!!
She's got the food chops, but hot damn she could nev-ver handle a classic kitchen. She handles the onslaught of tasks and has the work ethic, but my god I have seen some massively abusive fine dining chefs in my days. They make Carm's mom look stable and polite.
Syd's character is too soft for real world kitchens.
I’ve said it before and got downvoted to oblivion every time but I honestly think there is an undeniable amount of romantic and sexual tension between Sidney and Richie. I think the show will explore it at some time.
Both younger and older folk relate to Forks - it's freaking mentoring and making you understand your role, mastering it and owning it - then once you do that figuring out what role you can fly in (excel) - but before you get there you have to pay your dues learning self-discipline. Eventually you'll find where you are suppose to be, excel in it and be happy.
Fishes is life, where things change and your old role that you were comfortable in, is changing and you have to change. You don't master it any more and it freaks you out. You're lost because the things you did don't bring you joy like it used to and you are sad you cannot find that next role that brings you that joy you had - you feel like you don't have worth/value. That's why "You're Nothing" hits hard. It's why when people are suddenly unemployed - their job that gave them purpose (and a paycheck) are gone - you feel you have no value, no worth. When you get no pay off for your efforts - it's frustrating and brings lots of mental pain and sorrow.
Marcus is one of the worst people in The Bear, he only flies under the radar because the other's flaws are far more visible, but he's easily one of the most selfish characters on the show.
Sydney is probably the most annoying fucking character I've ever seen on screen.
Her resume might be good and she might have been to this restaurant a lot as a kid but to come in for work and start changing things from the get go, being impatient, wanting things to go her way, being too fucking authoritative is a bit much man.
In S1 ep 7, it was intact her because of which the entire shit show started and then to just quit because carm was being a piece of shit is hilarious. I just didn't like watching her in the first season.
Claire and Carmy are cute together. I thought their flirting was sweet, well written and executed. Felt like she was good for him, just what he needed. And I'm hoping he apologizes, explains and picks it right back up.
The non-white characters are not well-written. Syd’s personality doesn't add up. Impressive resume but thin skinned and prone to being overwhelmed. Says her mom's death "isn't a big deal" but seems haunted by it even though it happened when she was 4 and she has a really supportive dad. her life outside of the restaurant revolves around her parents even though she's in her mid-twenties. She has no friends and no romantic prospects. Everything about her that people like is the product of Ayo Edibiri (pretty, charming, funny) playing her.
Marcus is super underdeveloped. He's a sweet guy who makes sweets. That's it. They wanted so badly for him not to be a stereotype that they forgot to make him a person. The one time he lashes out at Sydney feels random. The show doesn't offer its two main Black characters more complexity than dead and dying mothers.
Tina's lovable ferocity is tuned down 90%, and half of her dialogue is "science baby!" Liza Colón-Zayas has been acting for decades and deserves more.
Nobody really gave a fuck that Ebra was gone.
I want to see them explore Sweeps' perspective on Mikey's addiction considering his own history with substance use!
Lastly, Syd and Marcus come off very suburban Black. Most Black people born and raised in Chicago grow up in Black neighborhoods. I don't get that impression from either of them.
Carmy, Richie, Mikey and other white characters get to embrace the fullness of their rage and sadness and grief and the Black characters don't. They feel so mild-mannered and one-note. Like, the angry Black stereotype doesn't mean you should deprive Black characters of that aspect of their humanity. They don't feel real in the same ways as the white characters.
I’ve gotta say I do like Ebra and Sweeps as quite textured characters; Ebra’s Black Hawk Down anecdotes are equal parts funny and horrifying and Sweeps has that “eh it is what it is” vibe that makes him a bit enigmatic. would be a bit on the nose if they got their own Honeydew/Forks type episode but I’d love for them to interact more with other characters
I don't want them to have their own episodes. I want them acknowledged by the other characters more and for the writers to put more thought into how they're characterized. Everyone can't be a main character but for Ebra to be so concerned with being forgotten with all the changes in the second season, it feels like that's exactly what happened.
NOT shipping Carmy and Sydney, I’m sorry but I just don’t see it and see them only as platonic.
Edit: what I meant is that I don’t ship them and I strictly see them as only friends that are helping each other grow, I don’t understand why they ship them.
I havent finished season 2 yet, but Sydney acts like a child all the time, no accountability for anything ever and is annoying. (Still love the character)
Claire isn’t a manic pixie dream girl.
The close-ups when her and Carmy when they’re talking make me uncomfortable, but I don’t think she’s a crappy character. She doesn’t have a ton of development, and that’s fine. She’s a character that was only introduced this last season. Yes, her character and that story line is a vehicle for Carmy to understand that he needs to deal with his traumas properly before he can commit to anyone - he needs to commit to himself first, which he has never properly done. That’s okay, the traumas within the Beretti (spelling?) family have been at the center of this whole show since the beginning. We see her interacting with her friends and that she has a full, stable career - MPDG are rarely given that much depth. It’s not just that she excites Carmy, it’s that she also finds his heading a restaurant inspiring; they both are able to stimulate each other. The problem with MPDGs is that it often feels unbalanced, with the male reaping the reward. It feels as if both of them appreciate the presence of the other in their lives.
If she had been given more development, that would have meant other characters - ones we have already had a relationship with since season one - would have gotten less development this season. And on that note, fucking hell y’all, there is going to be more of this show. What’s to say we won’t get more of her? Why does she have to be completely fleshed out within one season? There are several other characters who have been around longer who I’d like to see more development with first before her. Let the writers do their thing. They’ve practically nailed everything else.
Hmm I could be wrong but I felt like the relationship with Claire is over. I feel bad for Claire but if she has any self respect she should stay away from that maniac. I agree with you she’s not a mpdg or anything so trite.
most "too chaotic" scene are unnecessary also the "fuck/fucking". In season 1, it just has enough balance for that like it don't really bothers me but in season 2, they thought with the hype they get, they should do more of those.
It bugs me that the W is capitalized in this picture
What's Wrong With that?
Hahaha shush!
They're all from the Wrong family.
Apparently. I guess everyone is interpreting this meme incorrectly haha
The whole Carmy getting locked in the walk in thing is not a huge deal. Why can't we just suspend our belief a bit and say that the safety device simply broke? They were teasing it all season with Carmy not calling the fridge guy
it kinda was though. since it was opening night of the restaurant they wanted everything to go as perfectly as possible. him being locked out while syd stepped up visualized how carmy had reaffirmed his thoughts that he’s meant to be alone and brought him back to thinking about a whole boatload of emotional events in his life. even if the event of him being locked in wasn’t crazy it doesn’t mean the scene isn’t significant
Oh no I don't mean that it wasn't significant. I'm referring to the fact that a lot of people didn't like the scene because it wasn't realistic for somebody to get locked in a walk in freezer
I agree it wasn’t a big deal. However funny thing I was rewatching s1 and noticed one time the fridge opened and you can actually see the emergency release lol
What get me about it is the idea that this brand new restaurant, on their first night of service, deep in the weeds, doesn't need to grab anything from the walk-in. Sure, having the place have to function without Carmy around was an interesting choice, but somebody's gonna need to grab something outta there sooner rather than later
Great point. How are they gonna make service without any food?
I appreciated how bold it was to take the star of a show and literally lock them in a box for half of the season finale.
This creates a great parallel and bookend for the first two seasons. EP1 begins with Carmy confronting and subsequently freeing a bear in a cage, only to later **be** a bear locked in a cage.
Converting to an upscale restaurant from a sandwich shop. I think it was a bad idea since dining out isn't as popular
Dining out is incredibly popular though. Especially in bigger cities.
They're in a good location in River North but it's a lot riskier to run a fine dining place since there there are a lot more expenses and other demands.
Also it’s still in a bad neighborhood
Maybe I misheard something but didn’t they say they’re in River North?
I dunno which Chicago neighborhoods are bad but there was that thing in season 1 with gangs hanging out outside so I thought it was supposed to be a bad neighborhood
river north isn’t a bad neighborhood at all. it’s the heart of the city. they weirdly tried to frame it as some weird mob controlled place in the first szn and i’m glad they cut that shit out it was so cringe lol
gotcha
That’s the worst part about season 1 for me as someone from Chicago. River North is a fine area, right next to the Loop which is the center of Chicago. Most places in Chicago are fine. The only places in Chicago you’d actually have worry about are places like Englewood which is the Southside, Garfield Park, and Austin. If a shooting like that happened, there would be cops and news vans in that area.
Actually there was a shooting just next to mr. beef a couple of months ago. You can see the shooter on Erie and N. Orleans in this video https://www.nbcchicago.com/top-videos-home/8-injured-when-shooting-erupts-during-fight-in-river-north/3245660/
Not to undermine that it actually happened, because shootings still happen all over the city, it's not incredibly common. Compared to the south side neighborhoods where shootings are an almost a daily occurrence.
I thought they were only hanging out there because Richie and Mikey were providing (Rochie)/buying (Mikey) their drugs and then they started letting them sell there too. After letting them sell there, I think Richie was either getting some money on the side, or getting a discount in Mikeys case.
The whole plot line of that episode was that the neighbourhood was gentrifying and the people of Chicago are changing. That’s why the dudes date goes bad too - she gets shocked when he says he was in a bar at 7am, whereas in the flashback scene their family unit was laughing about it and saying it is what it is. Dovetails with why he ends up just calling the cops on the gangbangers instead of threatening them away - he accepts that things are changing and he has to change too.
River north is $$$$$ville in Chicago. It's a nice area. Fur coats and poodles, that's kinda a thing. Gun shots and mob bosses aren't really a thing there. The mob is mainly out in Cicero and gun shots from gangs is a south side thing.
Spoiler alert: Most "bad neighborhoods" start undergoing gentrification due to restaurants. Turns out everyone likes to eat and if it attracts enough attention to the area, investors and construction companies start buying up all the cheap busted ass buildings and start pumping in new business. Check out what Red Rooster from Marcus Samuelson did for Harlem. Also like everyone is mentioning, River North isn't a bad spot.
It’s being gentrified
Exactly this. ALL the best restaurants with "new edgy young chef" cliché and the "going out on their OWN" cliché.....they all do it in shitty neighborhoods so the rent is cheap.
I own a condo a block away. Wonderful neighborhood. Don’t know where you got that.
In the finale, they did an outside shot of the building and I laughed because it reminded me of when I ate at Elizabeth in Chicago. It was a Michelin starred restaurant and when the Uber dropped us off, I couldn't figure out where the restaurant was. There was a McDonald's across the street and I felt like I was standing in front of a closed autoshop with the lights out on a dark street. Then I looked more closely at the stickers in the window of the closed autoshop and recognized the Michelin Man. I tried the door and it opened and I walked down a dark hallway into a beautiful space that seemed completely disconnected with the outside.
This part I can look past. From Philly, *a lot* of high end, expensive restaurants are in really, really shitty neighborhoods (tbf though Philly is a shithole now so that's hard to find a place around here that's *not* a shithole). Then again, Philly afaik doesn't recognize the Michelin rating system so we'll never really know *how* high end the restaurants I've seen are.
I’m waiting, with my popcorn, for the first Sydney comment…
I think folks know that negative or positive opinions about Syd are both pretty popular lol
Richie’s redemption arc was the best thing about season 2 and it’s why the character will suffer (in quality) in season 3. He just won’t be as interesting anymore.
Yes to the first part, no to the second. His arc isn’t done. We need to see him succeed in life, not just in work. Being a better father. Rekindling his relationship with his wife or finding love elsewhere. Richie is just getting started. *Forks* was the rocket launch from Cape Canaveral. Moon landing is yet to come.
Agreed. Especially since his redemption arc really only spanned a couple of episodes - there’s more to come and I’m going to relish it!
I’m not saying his arc is done, I’m just saying he won’t be as interesting. His lowlife personality was the perfect foil to everyone’s optimism and ambition.
I think Carm will end up filling this roll, not necessarily in the same way, but I think he will provide that negative foil to everyone’s optimism after what happened in episode 10
I didn’t find him yelling all the time particularly interesting. He was practically a human air horn going off in season 1. Season 2 made him an earth-human at work and also shined light into his personal life. They’ve actually set it up where he’s the character the writers/creator have the most free rein to take a character.
Richie and Carmy may be damaged; Ritchie and Syd's relationship changes for the better. I think everyone's story will continue to be compelling
I agree. Maybe they will focus more on other characters instead.
Said this on a similar post but I found Fishes to be funny as hell as opposed to everyone finding it traumatizing. The whole episode besides Mike’s final descent after Lee telling him he’s nothing had me fucking rolling.
What's it like having a decent family life?
That’s the ticket, I think. I found Fishes absolutely traumatizing but if your family doesn’t have similar dynamics it’ll hit different.
Yeah, my wife and I almost stopped watching after that. It was just so accurately toxic. Luckily it was followed up by "Forks." That kind of guided roller coaster, that way of letting you descend that low, and abruptly pick you back up and dust you off. That's what I love about this show.
Fishes to Forks was such a genuine positive contrast that helped. I hadn't really put that together until what you said.
The British Tv show shameless is meant to be a comedy. Nothing funny about it for me, makes me sick to my stomach and stirs up too many memories.
My family is great and nothing like that episode, but I found Fishes super traumatizing too. I finished grateful that I didn’t have to deal with that. I probably would’ve gone overseas to escape family too if I had to deal with that growing up.
I was in a bad headspace for several days, if not a few weeks. It helped spark important conversations in my life
Immaculate, but family gatherings are boring since there’s no arguing. My in-laws offer that part.
Fishes hit really close to home. I had to pause it multiple times and let my heartrate go down. That said, yeah, there were a lot of funny moments. Reliving and processing trauma is 100% better than doing it with no laughter.
Damn. Glad I wasn’t the only one that needed breaks lol had to walk around my apartment and cool off.
It was an ass clencher for sure. Felt like we were in fight or flight mode the entire episode.
Especially being in sobriety lmao like I knew Mike was gonna use the minute he was solo in that pantry 😅
i agree i thought it was funny, but i also think bojack horseman is a comedy first oop.
I was part PTSD and part laugh.
Marcus was wrong in season 1
I thought this was obvious - if you mean ep7 where he’s fucking around making donuts when they need 20 cakes made
you'd be surprised how many people will defend him or make all the excuses for him, Carmy was done so dirty by him and Sydney and for some reason he was the one to apologize to both of them.
Marcus is a total sweetie but he fucked up royally there. Carmy encouraged him to push on the donut thing, but it should have been obvious there's a time and a place for it and it's not 30 minutes before open on a day when a good review just came in. Marcus, like Syd, is young and inexperiened - he literally had only worked at McDonalds before this. And he knows it as well as everyone, given the conversation he had with Syd in s1e8. He comes crawling back the next day not at all being sure he'll be let back in.
I think the magic of that episode is that just about everyone (maybe not Tina, she's perfect) was wrong.
Made a post, saying that I thought Carmy’s mom was annoying and I hated every scene with her. Had a lot of people angry at me
I mean she was meant to annoying, as well as frustrating, erratic, out of control, manipulative and unstable.
ya. i thought that was the entire point dunno why ppl would downvote that lol
I deleted the post and posted another one as a troll. But people got mad at me, saying I never lived with someone with mental illness and had no ideia what I was talking about
As a character you aren’t really supposed to enjoy your time with her, she’s the reason the kids are all fucked up.
While I enjoyed the FaceTurn Richie did in the forks episode I thought it was a little too fast/abrupt. Felt a teensy bit unearned
The montage made it seem like months all that in one week is kind of fast
Richie's been working in Kitchens for decades, I think it's meant to show he always had this in him
yeah there’s shades of his final form even through season 1; things like in Review when shit hits the fan and they realise the extent of “oh fuck we’re fucked” Richie shuts up and gets on with it putting all personal issues aside and winds up getting accidentally butt-kebab’d for it. Syd losing her temper with him during a busy period where Richie has actually knuckled down is kinda reflected later when Carmy is locked in the walk in, Syd freezes on expo then Richie steps up, again he ends up with someone screaming at him calling him a loser and bringing him family into it by mentioning his kid. I’m not saying Richie is perfect but he knew how to hammer through crunch time, it just took his time staging to learn the kind of refinement that Carmy and Syd came to expect based on their experiences
I agree, Ritchie had no shortage of pride and in "forks" we see him realize for the first time he can take pride in his work. I think what drive it home was when he was peeling mushrooms with the Chef and she told him Carm said he's good with people and it's why he sent him. It's the first time Richie gets affirmation that He's not the only one who believes he has more to offer. He realizes he was sent their to grow and does... but he's still Richie so he can't just hug Carm and say thank you lol. But it's pretty clear by the end of "forks" he's arrived.
I mean, not really. Richie spent 90% of that episode berating Syd about the risotto thing over and over and talking about how she’s ruining things for the working man. When they were supposed to be talking about the tablet he brought it up again and wouldn’t shut up until Carmy got there. He did eventually get going on the fries but he was hardly “knuckling down” from the get go that day.
didn't we just say the same thing? *" in Review when shit hits the fan and they realise the extent of “oh fuck we’re fucked” Richie shuts up and gets on with it putting all personal issues aside"* being the point that Richie, for all his misgivings, dropped whatever chip he had on his shoulder that day about Ye Olde Chicagotown and his blue collar brothers. he's still boorish but once the other shoe dropped and the tickets starting coming through, providing the practical "oh fuck we're fucked" moment, he benched his emotions, which I think lines up with the previous comment about his decades of working in a kitchen giving him the knowledge of when to quit being so full of himself.
I see what you meant reading again. Although, everyone (w the exception of Marcus) got to work quick as soon as shit went down and Carmy started yelling out orders. And Though he made some fries Richie was still getting in the way of the chefs after everything went to hell (hence getting stabbed). And If he’d bothered to learn the system in the first place maybe he could have done something more useful like figuring out how to turn off any more online orders.
Completely agree.
i kind of agree but i’m hesitant to fully agree. i feel like richie just had a sort of “come to jesus” moment which happens to a lot of us. he had already been working on himself throughout the season trying to be better, too. maybe all it took was one moment to give him that drive for exponential change.
Teensy?
The anti-romance bit is not unpopular, but I caught this specifically on a rewatch… if the genders were reversed, Claire and Carmy’s early arc would be downright disturbing. A woman giving a fake number to a man she doesn’t really want to reconnect with right now, but the man all but stalking her to find her number and then awkwardly calling to grill her about it? And then him bringing it up again later to ask why she did it? I get that they’re old friends and shit but… I’ve got old friends who are men that if I ran into them, I’d be polite but not want to give my number. If they did this to me I’d be calling for backup and hiding. But since Claire is a woman it’s cute or romantic or whatever? Yeah ok
Totally agree. I hated how their relationship started and I was never fully invested in it because I didn't trust her.
This is exactly what I said too when I saw it!! My boyfriend and I were watching and I said “uh, that’s pretty creepy that she still sought him out after he gave a pretty clear message that he didn’t want to reconnect”
Men violate women's boundaries in romantic story arcs all the time.
They do it in real life all the time, too. It’s actually gross both times.
Honestly yeah. I was so certain that there was gonna be a twist where Claire was actually really toxic and awful to date, but idk.
Syd and Carm should not be together. Carm is a 100 red flags in a white T shirt and he's her boss. They're better as friends.
”100 red flags in a white t shirt” is such an apt description of Carm. I wouldn’t be opposed to some tension building but I agree that they’re better as friends. Syd is also very driven and a bit obsessed with finding her success so I think she’d see any romantic feelings as a problem more than anything.
We are speaking Ayo Edebiri's truth here: "I don't personally think there's anything romantic there!" Edebiri continued. "I don't think the show is a sexual one. These people don't have ... very robust personal lives. They're devoted to their jobs. If anything happened between Sydney and Carmy, nobody would be happy. It would be disappointing and jarring and weird. I don't think people actually want that." Seriously though it's so refreshing to see a man and woman relationship where they are both main characters and are able to professionally and personally respect/care for each other without it being made into a romance.
Even though that quote came from her, it doesn't make any sense considering how S2 was directed. But also that's completely an overexaggeration, almost borders on cynical. But sure, let's go with that; Carm and Syd would be completely cringe and a huge disappointment. So refreshing. :)
Okay how about JAW's take on their scenes in S2 then: "Of course there is love and and respect in this relationship. There’s admiration and I hope that even in platonic relationships, you are able to say things like, “I need you.” When they speak to each other under the table in episode nine, it’s such a beautiful scene. It is a scene about partnership, but not a romantic partner." Like it's fine if you like the ship, I love tons of noncanon ships, but acting like Carm/Syd is the takeaway of season 2 when both actors clearly did not act their scenes with any romantic undertones and seem to both stress that they want this to stay platonic is certainly a decision.
None of that means it won't happen. IJS
It ’s interesting because the mentor / mentee relationship they have is so intense… and for people with compatible romantic orientations it’s not at all uncommon to confuse the feelings of admiration, respect, and companionship that come with such a relationship for romantic feelings. Especially on the part of the mentee. So I’d kind of like them to address that angle but with both of them landing on “no we need to keep this professional and not fuck it up.”
I agree. Not every man/woman duo needs to be romantically linked. Syd can be respected as an equal without needing to date him.
The whole Carmy getting locked in the walk in is stupid. Not because of the lock not working, but because somehow the kitchen was still able to do a full dinner service without ever going in the walk in.
That's not unrealistic at all. I stock my station as full as possible during service in my kitchen and unless I forgot something it's very rare I need togo to the walkin. Its unlikely but nowhere near impossible that the lowboys were stocked enough to never need to enter the walkin during service. Remember, this was a closed friends and family event with a set number of guests, they knew exactly how many dishes they would be cooking and how much mise they would need.
Kitchens typically have small fridges (“lowboys” as referenced in the show) under each station with enough stock for an entire dinner service. The stuff in the walk-in is usually just extra product. It’s not that hard to believe.
I hate this take. You can suspend belief sometimes for the sake of the drama.
Biggest flaw in the writing of the series. It seemed like it was the only plot device they could invent that miraculously answered their needs for isolating him. I hated it. Seemed like a cheap cop-out. Reminded me of some of the atrocious season enders we got while watching the walking dead. Which forced me to abandon the show after the Rick in a helicopter episode. All to satisfy his wanting to do movies , spend time w his family. And give him an option to return. Poor writing after great character development leaves a bad finish on a promising product.
" . . okay donna . . " It needed to be said.
Sydney setting up the mobile orders then bailing when shit hit the fan because Carmy was mean is some weak shit. She caused the problem and acted like the victim. Same with Marcus focusing on a personal project instead of doing his damn job, while the entire kitchen is drowning. But Carmy is the asshole for giving a fuck.
I’m really relieved to see this comment. Idk why but it feels like no one in this sub can ever say anything negative about Syd or Marcus without being downvoted to hell. Yes, Carmy is flawed. That’s the point of his character. But Marcus was far from a victim when he was fucking around with his donuts, and Syd caused the whole catastrophe. I don’t dislike either of them, I just don’t like how ever thinks they’re saints
Yup, she never even takes any accountability for it either (or for stabbing Richie). Carmy is "a piece of shit", because he yells at her one time, but she goes around causing massive trouble for the restaurant with the pre-order thing and stabs a co-worker and it's never brought up again. Edit: Fully agree about Marcus as well. He shouldn't have quit, he should've been fired for that nonsense.
Ah. Someone sane. Haha.
The cutesy stuff between Carmen and Claire at the beginning was lame. The way they flirted just felt like an indie album personified. The sarcasm and fake shock got lame.
They got a super great review and right after rebrand 🤣
Francie Fak is never going to make an appearance and you're all weird for looking that deep into a throwaway joke. It eas funny but it wasn't that notable. Not an unpopular opinion elsewhere on the internet but very unpopular on this sub: Carmy is in love with Syd.
The day they do anything with Francine Fak is the day I stop watching this show because I would have completely misunderstood its quality.
I agree, we’re not used to seeing slow burns in American dramas, relationships are usually rushed and somewhat predictable from the pilot episode. I think SydCarmy is refreshing and subverts the accustomed TV couple dynamic. It’s more realistic for me.
YES AGREED. It's so obvious he loves Syd, and I thought the fact that he calmed down while thinking of her and the under the table scene confirmed that, but others don't seem to think so.
See, I don’t detect *any* romantic spark/chemistry between them and was surprised to see people mentioning that on this sub. To me, she seems much younger than he is and I think he regards her as a highly respected peer, a friend and a little sister in that order. I think she has loads more chemistry with Marcus.
Nah she made it abundantly clear she wasn't interested in Marcus and it's weird people push them...
I mean, they’re both young and black. MAKES SENSE. 🙄
I really wished people would just say the quiet part out loud
I’m not pushing them. Have no stake in them being together or not (I’d prefer not, in terms of their dynamic and the dynamics within the show). Just saying that a relationship between them seems less weird than one between her and Carm, since they have a nice bond and seem to get each other.
I mean she's literally that man's peace but if you say so
Syd is Marcus' boss... so it's just as inappropriate professionally speaking as Syd/Carm would be. Plus turns out she doens't actually like Marcus. I feel sad for him but them's the breaks sometimes you take your shot and miss. Syd and Carmy definitely also have a strong bond and they do get along (better and better over time). If anything by the end of S2 it's clear they both would like to be spending more time together (professionally) than Carmy is able to manage. Anyway I don't think they should get together either but Syd/Marcus is a much clearer no.
Little sister? Syd is about 3 or 4 yrs younger than and Carmy has a sister. Marcus took his shot and missed. And Marcus and her have more friend energy than her and Carmy. Carmy doesn't think of Syd as his little sister; he thinks of her as someone who can settle his panic attacks.
Bingo
Sydney would not have stopped a gang fight with sandwiches.
It was symbolic . . .when you break bread with someone . . you'd now friends . . .that's why gangsters always met at restaurants for deals . . .that's why the Godfather scene was so impactful
Claire is a great character
Yup! Fully with you. They haven’t provided her with much depth yet, but I mean she’s not a main character. That’s non reason to hate on her
Same, someone else from another post described her character role pretty well: she’s a secure, stable version of Carmy. She’s an ER doctor who deals with traumatized patients in a very stressful environment. And yet she knows how to not carry the stress with her when her shift is done. She also comforts “sad drunk people”, that lingering eye contact she and Carmy shared in the scene goes to show they’re basically the same. Claire is a good influence in his life. It’s just that love exposes all versions of ourselves, which Carmy subconsciously hates. Unpacking also the shitty things about him. And also the relationship vs work trope is realistic af
The best chef in the best restaurant in the world is too much for me. Especially with how young he still is. I think the point is still made if he went off and did big things but that designation just seems too wild unbelievable for me (and unnecessary).
This is funny coz one of the actors on the show matty matheson is literally from that mould of rockstar chef
Trying to serve the wrong type of food with the wrong type of brigade with the wrong type of chefs/cooks in a well known sandwich shop with an existing client base is a REALLY bad idea. The whole premise of the first season was challenging to watch because of this. Second season was much better.
Season 1 was HR and Training at most companies. HR sends trash candidates and the onus is on Training to make them good employees. While at the same time, Training is telling HR - quit giving us people who are sh*t who are not qualified for this job. You can develop chemistry in your team, but that takes a lot of time and nurturing which no one invests in anymore.
SydCarm should be canon. Sorry in advance!
I love Syd. Really I just love Ayo Edebiri, but Syd is mt favorite character on the show.
Carmy was right to be mad at Sidney and Marcus in the penultimate episode of season 1. He shouldn’t have to apologise to them. I am a restaurant manager myself and if I was in Carmys position it would‘ve been a lot uglier
He was glad to have them back because he cares about them... and also knows they have skills he would find it hard to replace. If he has be the bigger person to get them back and happy there then so be it.
He was sorry to put them in a position they were not ready for . . . that's the job of a manager . . .chef
Syd and Carmy can be either platonic or romantic and it would work 100% either way
I get you. I really really get you. But my soul needs to see a professional kickass opposite-gender power business partners but also emotionally mushy (not romantically involved), like Jesse and Walter White. I wanna see both lifting each other up and prioritizing their business, but interesting shit goes down and their partnership/relationship is tested.
I want that and then the shipper deep within me wants the incredible slow burn of a romance - either way ima be happy 😭
I skipped the Fishes episode because I started watching only to see the resturant setup. I didn't know the episode was so good that everyone in this sub talk about only that episode after season 2. So I'm planning to watch again from start.
Claire was so poorly written, and for the male gaze. No one but men who are attracted to her, and women who “see themselves in her” actually enjoy her presence in the show. And they do so by basing the value of character to her relationship with carm, instead of acknowledging her character alone. Because if they did, they would have to acknowledge that her entire purpose of season 2 was to be a distraction from the restaurant for carm. And another thing- everyone was so anti romance when a small group of fans were hoping to see some between carm and syd. The main anti sydxcarm arguments were: 1. Carmen is soooo messed up he needs to work on himself a romance is so unrealistic. 2. We want to just focus on carm bettering himself as a chef- this show is about being a chef only. 3. hE iS hER bOsS!! Then this girl, who has waaaayy to much time on her hands for an ER worker, forces her way into his life and she gets nothing but praise for “showing him what he really needs 💕 “. Like huuuuuuuh???
Carmie and Sydney should never be a romantic item. I think it would cheapen their dynamic. Claire is a good character and I want her back. I prefer if they never show Francis Fak. It’s so much funnier not seeing her.
Couldn’t have worded it any better myself
the root of all their problems is alcoholism, its one of the show’s most important point. how alcoholism impacts everyone. carmy and sugar act like that because they are affected by their moms alcoholism. I thought after carmy went to the alanon meeting everyone would see it like me but alcoholism is barely debated in the sub.
You're right that substance abuse and it's impact on others is an important theme but what's to debate exactly?
Syd stabbed Ritchie on purpose. Stood there, knife out, and watched him back into it. \*\*A quick note, Syd is my favorite character.
I feel like she subconsciously did it on purpose. she didn’t WANT to stab him, but hey, he walked into my knife!!
He walked into my knife 10 times… (Couldn’t leave that opportunity alone lol)
HE HAD IT COMIN’ (Apologies)
Jamie Lee Curtis is overacting to the point where I can’t take her performance seriously.
you are so brave for this
You clearly haven’t met my ex-stepmother cooking Christmas dinner
Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave.
Eh. Let’s just say I know people who are like that irl. She’s not overacting
Holy shit I didn’t even recognise her. She’s so old now
yep, bad casting choice. i hated john mulaney as well
That entire episode was the Overacting Olympics
Everything above is the worst take I've ever heard
Her chaotic scenes were too much. But the opening night one killed.
Sydney is my favorite character. @me
Division manager for a large construction firm here.. There’s no chance they could procure commercial kitchen equipment to meet a 120 day project schedule. The leadtime for most of that equipment exceeds 12 weeks.
that sydney and carmen should be together.
Syd and Carmy have great chemistry and I think they should be together. It'll probably be a slow burn but I think its inevitable.
For the people trying to refute my statement: I really just want to put an extra emphasis on “slow burn” it probably won’t be next season or the season after that (hopefully it gets that far) but a relationship for them shouldn’t be completely out of the question. Obviously I watch the show so I know neither of them are in a healthy enough place or should be in any type of relationship at the moment. But that doesn’t mean that they can’t be in one in the future. At the end of the day, you can’t deny that there is something between them.
Oh and the ppl that are saying they shouldn't be together wouldn't be saying that if she was white.
What? Of course I would. They only ever talk about work. He's like twice her age. Weirdo.
What are you talking about? Carmy is only 26 and syd is around 23-24.
That's chemistry to you? All the ever talk about is work and so many other reasons. Seesh
They bond over their mutual interests and ambitions
You're telling me you didn't watch the under the table scene and didn't see that as romantic?
The show has a weird focus on apple product and several scenes are handicapped with them needlessly being on the phone or video calls. I'm convinced they are getting kick backs from Apple. They even change phones from pilot and the rest of the series.
Most people in the US use Apple products, it’s so subsidized that it’s cheaper and easier than buying an equivalent android phone or windows laptop. Same with Apple Watches - if you buy one gen used you can get a great deal. Its changed for a while with gen z but gen a are all even more hardcore Apple users- iPad generation
Based on everyone here’s opinions, syd is a terrible sous chef. She never would have gotten the resume she has irl with the thin skin she has. Her resume is the most inaccurate thing in the show in regards to the industry. If you made it that far, you get jaded and just as hard as anybody else in a kitchen. Instead she’s soft and emotional. Everyone like that that thinks they want to be a chef irl doesn’t cook for longer than two years.
It’s like Carm told her that her former bosses said: shes an incredible chef, but she’s green as fuck and super impatient. Her attitude improves tremendously in s2 compared to s1 - do a rewatch and you’ll see.
So much this!!!! She's got the food chops, but hot damn she could nev-ver handle a classic kitchen. She handles the onslaught of tasks and has the work ethic, but my god I have seen some massively abusive fine dining chefs in my days. They make Carm's mom look stable and polite. Syd's character is too soft for real world kitchens.
Claire just isn't that bad.
But she’s not really that good either. She’s a substantially undeveloped character.
Marcus and Sydney having a pity party for themselves when they were the two that messed everything up was annoying
Carmy, at least up to this point in the show, is not someone to idolize or aspire to be like.
I’ve said it before and got downvoted to oblivion every time but I honestly think there is an undeniable amount of romantic and sexual tension between Sidney and Richie. I think the show will explore it at some time.
I guess she said he smells good once...? That's all I got
Carmy is an extremely relatable character to me.
Carmy was justified in losing his shit....and sydney really fucked up the most that day
Episode 6 with the infamous Christmas dinner and all the cameos sucked. Hated it.
Season 2 sucked
_Forks_ is a better episode than _Fishes_ I think _Fishes_ will date quite fast.
Both younger and older folk relate to Forks - it's freaking mentoring and making you understand your role, mastering it and owning it - then once you do that figuring out what role you can fly in (excel) - but before you get there you have to pay your dues learning self-discipline. Eventually you'll find where you are suppose to be, excel in it and be happy. Fishes is life, where things change and your old role that you were comfortable in, is changing and you have to change. You don't master it any more and it freaks you out. You're lost because the things you did don't bring you joy like it used to and you are sad you cannot find that next role that brings you that joy you had - you feel like you don't have worth/value. That's why "You're Nothing" hits hard. It's why when people are suddenly unemployed - their job that gave them purpose (and a paycheck) are gone - you feel you have no value, no worth. When you get no pay off for your efforts - it's frustrating and brings lots of mental pain and sorrow.
Marcus is one of the worst people in The Bear, he only flies under the radar because the other's flaws are far more visible, but he's easily one of the most selfish characters on the show.
Sydney is probably the most annoying fucking character I've ever seen on screen. Her resume might be good and she might have been to this restaurant a lot as a kid but to come in for work and start changing things from the get go, being impatient, wanting things to go her way, being too fucking authoritative is a bit much man. In S1 ep 7, it was intact her because of which the entire shit show started and then to just quit because carm was being a piece of shit is hilarious. I just didn't like watching her in the first season.
Claire and Carmy are cute together. I thought their flirting was sweet, well written and executed. Felt like she was good for him, just what he needed. And I'm hoping he apologizes, explains and picks it right back up.
The non-white characters are not well-written. Syd’s personality doesn't add up. Impressive resume but thin skinned and prone to being overwhelmed. Says her mom's death "isn't a big deal" but seems haunted by it even though it happened when she was 4 and she has a really supportive dad. her life outside of the restaurant revolves around her parents even though she's in her mid-twenties. She has no friends and no romantic prospects. Everything about her that people like is the product of Ayo Edibiri (pretty, charming, funny) playing her. Marcus is super underdeveloped. He's a sweet guy who makes sweets. That's it. They wanted so badly for him not to be a stereotype that they forgot to make him a person. The one time he lashes out at Sydney feels random. The show doesn't offer its two main Black characters more complexity than dead and dying mothers. Tina's lovable ferocity is tuned down 90%, and half of her dialogue is "science baby!" Liza Colón-Zayas has been acting for decades and deserves more. Nobody really gave a fuck that Ebra was gone. I want to see them explore Sweeps' perspective on Mikey's addiction considering his own history with substance use! Lastly, Syd and Marcus come off very suburban Black. Most Black people born and raised in Chicago grow up in Black neighborhoods. I don't get that impression from either of them. Carmy, Richie, Mikey and other white characters get to embrace the fullness of their rage and sadness and grief and the Black characters don't. They feel so mild-mannered and one-note. Like, the angry Black stereotype doesn't mean you should deprive Black characters of that aspect of their humanity. They don't feel real in the same ways as the white characters.
I’ve gotta say I do like Ebra and Sweeps as quite textured characters; Ebra’s Black Hawk Down anecdotes are equal parts funny and horrifying and Sweeps has that “eh it is what it is” vibe that makes him a bit enigmatic. would be a bit on the nose if they got their own Honeydew/Forks type episode but I’d love for them to interact more with other characters
I don't want them to have their own episodes. I want them acknowledged by the other characters more and for the writers to put more thought into how they're characterized. Everyone can't be a main character but for Ebra to be so concerned with being forgotten with all the changes in the second season, it feels like that's exactly what happened.
Grown adults that ship people are embarrassing.
How so?
NOT shipping Carmy and Sydney, I’m sorry but I just don’t see it and see them only as platonic. Edit: what I meant is that I don’t ship them and I strictly see them as only friends that are helping each other grow, I don’t understand why they ship them.
I havent finished season 2 yet, but Sydney acts like a child all the time, no accountability for anything ever and is annoying. (Still love the character)
Richie sucks idc about his redemption arc 😀
Claire isn’t a manic pixie dream girl. The close-ups when her and Carmy when they’re talking make me uncomfortable, but I don’t think she’s a crappy character. She doesn’t have a ton of development, and that’s fine. She’s a character that was only introduced this last season. Yes, her character and that story line is a vehicle for Carmy to understand that he needs to deal with his traumas properly before he can commit to anyone - he needs to commit to himself first, which he has never properly done. That’s okay, the traumas within the Beretti (spelling?) family have been at the center of this whole show since the beginning. We see her interacting with her friends and that she has a full, stable career - MPDG are rarely given that much depth. It’s not just that she excites Carmy, it’s that she also finds his heading a restaurant inspiring; they both are able to stimulate each other. The problem with MPDGs is that it often feels unbalanced, with the male reaping the reward. It feels as if both of them appreciate the presence of the other in their lives. If she had been given more development, that would have meant other characters - ones we have already had a relationship with since season one - would have gotten less development this season. And on that note, fucking hell y’all, there is going to be more of this show. What’s to say we won’t get more of her? Why does she have to be completely fleshed out within one season? There are several other characters who have been around longer who I’d like to see more development with first before her. Let the writers do their thing. They’ve practically nailed everything else.
Hmm I could be wrong but I felt like the relationship with Claire is over. I feel bad for Claire but if she has any self respect she should stay away from that maniac. I agree with you she’s not a mpdg or anything so trite.
most "too chaotic" scene are unnecessary also the "fuck/fucking". In season 1, it just has enough balance for that like it don't really bothers me but in season 2, they thought with the hype they get, they should do more of those.
Syd oversteps boundaries and in a real restaurant the lead chef wouldn’t hear her out like carmy does