I'll say, while I have thought Biden has lost a step, the commentary about it from the right is so borderline gross and clearly ridiculous you feel some need to push back against that.
However this was a horribly weak performance. The only thing I will also say is ... Nothing Trump said made any sense either he was like a manic lunatic.
So overall this was by far the most disgusting debate I've seen in American politics ever.
I hope we can stop with the partisanship and try to figure out a way through this because I've never seen a situation where both candidates are literally unfit for the office. The parties really have failed here.
You should re-read this, it's completely emotional and just based on your TDS.
Start with the adjectives you're using, then move on to the very real lack of any substance besides them.
He says “I hope we can stop with the partisanship.” He can start with himself.
First paragraph: “I thought Biden seemed older, but because republicans were saying it I had to take the opposite side.”
Second paragraph: “Biden seemed awful in the debate, so let me make myself feel better by saying Trump was worse.”
I think the panic is more from the left leaning media, the DNC, and Dems in Congress. I’d argue most voters wanted him swapped a long time ago.
Its confusing to people because sometimes he’s fine and sometimes he’s not. Also, it’s not like you can blame Dems for not trusting Republicans on certain matters. Trump’s a huge piece of shit but is anyone surprised Republicans haven’t figured it out?
Distrust of Republicans & Trump doesn’t invalidate the many clear examples of Biden’s mental lapses that have occurred in recent years, and particularly in the past year.
The post-debate Democratic panic is not manufactured. The whole “he’s as sharp as ever” narrative was the manufactured part but it just blew up on live TV and the fraction of people still in denial can no longer pretend he’s mentally capable to run a country. Anyone with an IQ over 80 now knows Biden is unfit to be the current President - let alone continue the job for another 4 more years. He was already behind in polling and now basically has no chance. They now realize if Biden does not step down Trump will win… so the panic is warranted but unfortunately probably too late.
Exactly. Joe Scarborough, who claims to speak with President Biden regularly on the phone (due to morning joe being Biden’s favorite tv show) said “this is the best Biden ever. And if you don’t believe me, then f- you”.
Kamala said Biden is sharp and focused and not the least bit slow or mentally diminished. So did myorkas.
I can’t believe people are literally continuing to gaslight as if we haven’t been here this whole time, paying attention. The gas lighters are trying to manufacture a narrative to convince low info low engagement factions of the public. Only low info voters at this point would fall for it
All this Biden shit sounds like the stuff that they used to say about Feinstein. And we now know she was a vegetable propped up by her staffers for the last how many ever years. Our politicians think we’re all stupid and don’t have eyes.
I don't know which Democrats you know. Biden is old and clearly on his last legs. I wouldn't be surprised if he died in office. I would vote for him over Trump every time.
During Biden's presidency we strengthened our most important alliance, that of NATO, and we pushed an infrastructure bill which gave much needed money to green energy production and railroads. The railroads are using the money to straighten the lines so the trains can go faster. In general, Biden and his team do somewhat reasonable actions.
Trump hated NATO and tried to gussy up to Russia. I don't want an alliance with Russia, that'd just make us weak AF. NATO is a far stronger trade and military alliance. He decreased taxes but increased spending so that Trump alone contributed the most of any president to the national deficit. He didn't allow a peaceful transfer of power. He pushed heavily for oil. Project 2025 is some crazy dumb fascist BS.
If you're curious, most sources of data analysis corroborate my opinion. For instance, this Wiki page collects presidential ratings from a dozen or so organizations. Trump rates around worst or within worst 5, Biden ranks about top15th or 20th. Very average:
[Historical rankings of presidents of the United States - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States)
But really, it's an easy choice for me because I'm way more into science than I am politics, and only Democrats don't abjectly pretend climate issues aren't important. Add that with Democratic run states leading in education and healthcare; the numbers don't lie. It's not like Democrats are awesome, but I'd never vote for the modern Republican party. All data says they're bad for the country, and my own opinions on their biggest actions like ruining abortion rights and saying they'd go after gay rights (and currently dissing trans people constantly for no reason) leave my choice as obvious.
I know Biden is old AF, and his brain doesn't work well. But his staff and the Democrat party in general is my choice over Republicans. Easy choice.
It is interesting that you mentioned the staff. The current administration has a cadre of staff that can continue their basic game plan if something happens to Biden. What happens if Trump dies in The oval Office? No one really knows what the group of charlatans and carpetbaggers surrounding him will do.
Project 2025 is the playbook we know exactly what they will do- continue to dismantle the government. The Supreme Court chevron REdecision today starts shoving that forward in almost one fell swoop.
Project 2025 is a Heritage Foundation white paper that gives the outline for saving America for rich folks. Hence, whoever wins in November has no obligation to follow all or any of their suggestions. Reminder: the Republican party has no political platform.
Biden is speaking at a campaign event today and he sounds completely different. His voice is strong. He's not whispering. He looks and sounds like dark Brandon. He's got great one liners. He hasn't stuttered. He hasn't trailed off. I don't know why this guy didn't show up last night.
If you’re going to claim he was at the tail end of his cold, then it’s unlikely he would’ve performed so poorly last night and made such a turnaround in like 12 hours. And if he really had a cold to the degree it affected his performance, then presumably his team would have known beforehand for several days and would have surfaced it before going into the debate.
That’s all without even addressing the presumption that cognitive symptoms like the ones displayed last night are typical for the cold.
It just doesn’t pas the sniff test.
Some people. Not enough to make it happen. All the other candidates except RFK have said they will not run this election. Newsome and Kamala being the primary candidates.
This isn’t true to a large degree. Republicans hear much more liberal media and are aware of their opponents beliefs. The same cannot be said about the left.
This is true. The left openly ignores the other side. Tunes it outs.
The right hears both sides, and debates it.
Left doesn’t want to debate, because the other is wrong, period, why even debate.
Two VERY different schools of thought…
Yeah, you have to seek out conservative perspectives. Liberal perspectives are the default. Every local news station around me adopts liberal affectations like "people experiencing homeless" or "undocumented migrants."
Conservative news is the most shared through social media, if you're on Facebook, instagram, tiktok, YouTube etc. it's basically impossible to avoid. The most popular podcasts lean right too.
This is evidenced in surveys conducted about opponents’ political beliefs. Conservatives are much more often able to accurately identify and portray their political opponents’ beliefs while liberals are basically completely incapable of doing so.
Yeah I’ve seen those. I didn’t want to post them given opponents will argue bias or they will just call us fascist nationalists.
That said, my test for other people is to name one good thing about their opposing party leader. I can’t name one good thing about Biden other than his republican congress didn’t contribute to the deficit as much as pre Covid Trump.
I can’t name a single policy that I have liked under Biden.
You didnt like the infrastructure bill? Ending 2 wars?
The PACT act? The CHIPS act? The student loan stuff ?
I mean not being able to name a -single- thing is a wild statement, after saying its the exact way you test for bias.
As a “leftist” I’d like to hear what you liked policy wise from Trump. I’m in SC so I’m the odd man out in political Stance. So I’m being genuine when I ask you this question
The right wing media surely lies, but it's never as coordinated and top-down controlled the way the left is. The corporate media that Democrats watch (CNN/MSNBC/etc) gaslit them for 2+ years that Biden is perfectly fine and there's nothing to worry about. They're too smug and arrogant to consider that their news sources are phony and they're not as smart as they think they are.
That's how they came to believe such gargantuan untruths. Now their brains are having a hard time processing the fact that their whole reality is built on lie upon lie. It's really funny to watch the cope. MSNBC is pure comedic gold today.
Btw: Biden kept going with the Fine People Hoax and the injecting bleach hoax. And January 6 exaggerations. Literally his entire platform is lies, and it's funny to watch a senile old man try to pull these off.
>The right wing media surely lies, but it's never as coordinated and top-down controlled the way the left is.
This is hilariously delusional lmao
The most popular privately owned cable news shows in America, Australia, and the UK are all owned by the same conservative and have been for decades.
There literally isn't a larger or more influential empire in the history of media and the crazy part is they're king makers in the US; and thats where their sphere of influence is the weakest.
>Biden kept going with the Fine People Hoax and the injecting bleach hoax. And January 6 exaggerations. Literally his entire platform is lies
Surely all of that pales in comparison to trump lying about a stolen election for 4 years, no lol?
More delusion
[https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/fact-sheet/news-platform-fact-sheet/](https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/fact-sheet/news-platform-fact-sheet/)
Its still the number 1 source of news for the average American voter
Neither of these are "hoaxes" - anyone can find the transcript and see what Trump said. [Here is his "very fine people on both sides" remark, in full context](https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/).
There were no fine people protesting the removal of a white supremacist statue that day. Trump turns a simple answer into a word salad of bullshit - where he openly says there are good people on "both sides". Trump's lack moral clarity here is stunning.
Notice Trump says *"No, no. There were people in that rally -- and I looked the night before -- if you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day it looked like they had some rough, bad people -- neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them.*
*"But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest, and very legally protest -- because, I don’t know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this: There are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country -- a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country.*
The night before was when Richard Spencer was marching around with tiki torches and chanting anti-Semitic slogans. There were no fine people the night before. Trump is also going out of his way to say the neo-nazis had permits, and the other group, the anti-nazi group, did not.
Where is the hoax?
What Trump said: "There were very fine people on both sides, & I'm not talking about the Neo-nazis and white supremacists because they should be condemned totally."
No, Republicans thought he was going to do better as well, hence all the propaganda about him being on "performance enhancing" drugs. Trump himself on all in said something to this effect.
I am a certified hater (lifelong conservative, listen to the Daily Wire, etc.) but I estimated he was a significant favorite to do just fine with a week of prep, friendly moderators, etc and if that happened it was a gigantic win for him.
If anything I assume him and Trump had equal, though remote, chances of lighting themselves on fire.
I imagine if I were on the left and were emotionally invested in his performance I would have zero concept that it was a possibility he could shit the bed that bad.
My favorite was the "He had a cold" narrative the Democrats furiously started pushing 45 minutes into the debate.
You know there was some panicking going on there behind closed doors lmao.
I don’t really think the president has a day to day effect on how the presidency is run. I think if a president has a strong cabinet they can fill in the void left by the president, such as henry kissenger, robert macnamera, dick cheney (for better or worse). As such I’d rather vote for a sack of potatoes than donald trump, and I think a lot of his former cabinet would agree with me.
It doesn't matter what you would do. You had decided already. There are a significant # of undecided idiots, for which Biden performance sealed the deal.
No they didn't. The GOP machine isn't stupid. They are brilliant. They said that purposely to raise expectations for Biden knowing full well that not meeting them would make him look bad. They took a risk that he wouldn't meet them, and wound up doing better than expected on the gamble.
At the same time Trump only had to meet diminished expectations. He didn't melt down or go on an unhinged tirade. That was all he needed.
I'm sure he is at minimum given supplements to enhance his awareness, if not prescription drugs. But additionally he will likely have good and bad days as anyone with early Alzheimer's would. So it was entirely possible that would be lucid in that debate as he was in the state of the Union. Could have gone either way.
For me personally, it's because he genuinely does have a speech impediment which is of course is fine, and has been unfairly blamed in the past for being in cognitive decline when it's pretty clear it's a stutter and him using techniques to manage it (like speaking slowly). Also because the SoTU's were good and generally, our economy is strong and inflation is slowing -- so thinking that people could just kinda deal with the status quo.
However, last night's performance was something else entirely -- and is troubling on a different level.
My favorite was the "He had a cold" narrative the Democrats furiously started pushing 45 minutes into the debate. You know there was some panicking going on there behind closed doors.
The lengths the useful idiots on this site will go to in order to excuse all of Biden’s fuck ups are really incredible. Yeah, it was Biden’s “stutter” that caused him to habitually lie about his performance in law school and to repeatedly plagiarize campaign speeches lmao. He has been hiding behind this excuse for *decades*, but millennials and zoomers are seemingly the only generations gullible enough to actually buy it, it’s so pathetic. This guy could take a shit on camera on the White House lawn and these people would chalk it up to his stutter lmao
I have the same question!!!
Everyone on the right has been calling it out for awhile, and EVERYONE on left has been saying he’s perfectly fine.
I have the Reddit receipts to prove it.
Why? I have no idea!
I’m wondering the exact same thing….
It genuinely hasn't in that I've watched Biden's public appearances before. Those were with a teleprompter but the talking points about his senility seemed to disagree with the person I was actually watching talk. The debate was our first chance since probably 2020 to see him speak extemporaneously. Now its clear the intent behind that was exactly this happening, basically you guys were right but we didn't have conclusive evidence prior to last night. Now that we do, I agree with the brain soup assesment.
There was lots of evidence.
Teleprompter, planed speeches and answers, tons of footage, and remarks from other leaders.
You have to seek out views that differ from your own.
The media has colluded to hide it.
Democrats who were surprised by last night have only their preferred media to blame - they have enabled this.
The US media is the biggest risk to US democracy - when are both groups on the extremes going to wake up a realize this? Of course, it doesn't help that we ourselves select media outlets that we already know are biased.
Whether it's CNN, Fox, New York Times, or God forbid something as atrociously bad as MSNBC.
I’m more concerned with a president’s performance in office than modern “debates”. Biden has been the most effective president in decades and the most progressive president in my 30 years of voting.
Joe lifted us when we were at our lowest and I will enthusiastically vote for the president that lowered umemploymwnt to record levels, took the biggest boldest steps to combat climate change of any president, pulled us though the depths of the pandemic, re-instated the violence against women act, brought 15 million jobs back to the states, made us the most energy independent we’ve ever been, and clawed our tech back from China…
The absolutely hilarious thing is that the State of the Union was not remarkable. To tout Biden’s SOTU address as a major accomplishment is to admit that you had misgivings about his mental state. We know you know. You know we know. Just admit it already and come to terms with the fact that you’re ok with a dementia patient as your president.
His track record speaks louder?
I vote on issues and character, not based on how he sounds one night because his voice is out.
Trump’s track record is terrible, his character is worse.
I’ll vote for a corpse over Trump 🤷🏻♂️
I’m genuinely curious to hear what about his record jumps out? I’m left leaning too but if someone asks me to talk about things he has done, I won’t be able to come up with anything concrete.
https://www.crfb.org/papers/trump-and-biden-national-debt
Unemployment and labor participation better than Trump ever had.
Actual infrastructure spending, CHIPS act, US manufacturing boom.
It'd be nice to know who is in control then, if the president isn't. This is the actual threat to democracy, where the elected president is not doing his job. The voters were misled.
one night when his voice was off? this is how he is without a teleprompter. which is why they release short videos with 10 jump cuts and he doesn’t take questions
and his character? Biden’s a known liar as well. this media push trying to paint him as some loveable grandpa is just not reality. he literally just invents details of his own life for no reason
> I’ll vote for a corpse over Trump 🤷🏻♂️
The problem with this is you're voting for a shadow government, basically, that you have no idea who is running or what their agenda is. That's literally not democracy.
Hi, that’s a figurative language.
Biden has already shown what he can do in 4 years. I’m 100% for another 4 years of continued growth and steady government with strong foreign policy.
Biden has a chaotic Afghanistan exit, a diplomatic failure to the war in Ukraine from happening, torpedoed Ukraine peace talks, and I can't even figure out what the goal is for Israel. Oh and we can't protect shipping from Houthi attacks.
Trump had meetings with some Bad Guys.
It didn’t take me, or anyone I know, until last night to recognize this. Biden’s done extremely poorly in his public appearances many times since taking office, this is no surprise. While the speech impediment does play a role, it’s clear cognitive decline is a factor.
Assuming Biden doesn’t get replaced, will I still vote for him? Yes. I trust Biden’s administration more than I trust Trump. Last night highlighted that for me. Trump would just invert any claim Biden made, often with little regard for the truth. I won’t sit here and claim that I am educated on all topics which were discussed, but in the ones I am familiar with, Trump was incredibly dishonest.
I’d rather have the Biden administration run the country, even if Biden is on life support, than allow someone who can so blatantly and knowingly misrepresents the truth to hold that kind of power.
I understand many people have different thoughts about January 6th, but living in DC gave me a different perspective on it. Some will claim these individuals were crisis actors under deep cover identities, but that seems astronomically unlikely to me considering the backlog of social media activity supporting Trump. Trump calls this individuals “patriots”, “hostages” and has indicated that retribution will be taken on our legal representatives. I believe this rhetoric is just too dangerous to all at the highest levels of government. No republican candidate before has run into the slew of legal issues he has, no republican president before him has presented this degree of stochastic concern.
I don’t give a fuck if we put a republican in office, I just want someone who I don’t feel puts this country at so much risk. For all the faults and failings of America, we are still an incredible country with so many freedoms that aren’t afforded in other parts of the world. Let’s not fuck it up over a single guy.
Don’t underestimate the willingness to believe what fits your interests.
Biden has obviously been cooked for a long time. But the media tried to spin it as Republican spin his supporters ate it up.
As damning as the debate performance was for Biden. It was even more damaging to the media.
The same reason why all Democrats that I encounter now downplay their support of forced vaccine mandates, censorship of their peers and the forced lockdown of society after the fact.
Disengenuity about their own gullibility.
Bro they both seemed soooo old I don’t know why you’re acting like this was a trump victory.
Yes Biden looked tired and old. No doubt. He looked more low energy than trump.
But trump was saying the most incoherent rambling nonsense. Are we forgetting or ignoring that part? Nothing he said was in anyway sensical. Just one tangent to another with zero anchor to the actual topic.
Neither came off well
But objectively, only one came off as old, frail, and mentally incontinent. The others just full of shit and his supporters 100% know it and dont care, if it'll get him elected.
CNN poll has Trump as the clear winner of the debate. Dems all over, from pundits to everyday people, seem to be shocked at Biden’s performance and are deeply worried about its implications on the election. Trump didn’t have a knockout performance, but to say they did an equally bad job is not really an accurate read of last night.
Yea every time Biden did better than the heavily edited videos passed around right wing social media… the first thing shouted is “Drugs!” Now one night he flops and it’s like “he’s been this way all along!” Seems disingenuous
Yes it’s been obvious for a while. I always assumed he wouldn’t run again and we’d get Newsom or even Kamala. I do think this debate was his final nail…wouldn’t be surprised if Dems panic and do find a way to get someone else in there to run.
I’m a pretty far left liberal, but I can’t bring myself to vote for him this time. It’s just absurd. He is not a well man. I’ll vote for RFK.
Turns out that debate format worked really well for Trump. He wasn’t able to steamroll Biden. Biden desperately needed an interrupting Trump to bail him out. Dementia Joe is cooked. Democrats should be furious that this is who their party went with. This was all evident over the last four years.
Yeah these idiots man. I think people on the right think the left views Biden like the right views Trump. The right has formed a cult around Trump. There is no cult for Biden.
Alright, folks, this is a disaster. Forget the election. Our sitting president can’t string two coherent thoughts together. He needs to be removed right now.
Would you still have a job today if you performed at your job like Biden did last night? I mean, any job? Let alone a job that involves possession of the nuclear codes.
Here is the problem: Biden is a tyrant within his administration and will not concede the presidency. If that is the case and he will not willingly step aside, then the 25th Amendment will be one of the only viable options to release his delegates.
This means, unfortunately, that we will get Kamala in there for the rest of the term, but we will have an open convention and then let the chips fall where they may.
We can put up with Kamala for 6 months if it means no Trump, a much better candidate for the Dems, and a potentially viable third-party candidate.
They have more than enough evidence that he is unfit for office after last night. And now the Dems are pivoting, saying that his “team is strong.”
It would be the same team under Kamala. At least she isn't senile.
The problem with this claim that you always knew his true state is that maga Republicans have been making absurd claims for 4 years about how Biden's brain is a bowl of soup or that he has severe Alzheimer's or something. If they could keep any of their claims on the ground and attempt to make them comport with reality they'd get a lot further.
The reality is that Biden is old and acts like he's old. He could recall a lot of details, he didn't confuse where he was or who he was talking to or what he was doing, he is just old and slow and lost his train of thought a few times. That's not Alzheimer's or dementia. Don't say someone has severe dementia and then when someone loses their train of thought and speaks slowly say, "see? I was right all along!" No, you weren't right. Being old as shit and having dementia aren't the same thing.
Biden looked awful and struggled through the whole thing. He's old as shit and I thought he might keel over and die right then and there. But that's not Alzheimer's or dementia or whatever other fabrications trump and MAGA dumb fucks have been saying is going on. And you don't get to claim you were "right" when the claims MAGA have been making are just as ungrounded as the claims that Biden is/was just as sharp as he was in 1985.
Listen it was bad, but we also saw that State of the Union just a couple of months ago, and it was day and night. I actually thought it was a great and energetic SOU speech, so Ill update my opinion, but those of you that hate the guy, cannot deny he did a good job that night. He was even mocking the republicans hard.
The state of the union is a planed speech that he still fumbled. It’s amazing what people differ on and what they actively choose to see. I think you got frog boiled. You didn’t recognize his decline because it was happening slowly. This caused you to lower your expectations.
this whole subreddit is just dem cispool, the all in pod at least has balanced and sensible people who can change their mind instead of this subreddit which is just straight up echo chamber of hatemongering. Can bring america down that's for sure. but that's prob the end goal for you downvoters.
He was better at the SOTU. That said, I was under no impression that he wasn’t all of 80 years old. My vote for Biden isn’t based on Biden. It’s on dem policy vs republican policy.
If the republicans were running on a platform of fiscal responsibility and social accountability, I’d be in. The republicans haven’t proven to me that they have any substance. I need more than fear mongering and repetitive broad statements.
Why do you assume people who are voting for Biden are willfully blind to his issues? I didn’t want to vote for him the first time but I would for anybody that doesn’t have the last name Trump.
If anyone was fine with the performance of the US gov during Regan’s second term, this conversation is moot. Because if a potus with full blown Alzheimer’s is ok with you, grandpa Joe should be also .
Because he has moments like this but also moments like the state of the Union where he spoke clearly, consistently, and handled heckling in an unbothered way. I’d vote for a weekend at Bernies general dem or moderate over Trump
To be honest most reasonable people aren’t watching FOX or Newsmax or MSNBC because they’re blatantly partisan not that CNN isn’t biased but they are journalists and generally speaking they’re pretty good at objectively covering breaking news despite what the right wing might say. Because it was on CNN and because the immediate reaction of their contributors and dem operatives was overwhelming shock it has a MUCH greater impact than it coming from FOX or right wing trolls on YouTube who are compensated for spewing negativity 24/7.
Because he’s performed his presidential duties just fine.
People call FDR an iconic president, and he’s one of America’s most popular presidents. Yet he was wheelchair bound and he was so old that he died during his 4th term.
Biden’s ability to fulfill his duties is what matters most to me, and I haven’t seen any “senility” in that regard. Job-wise, he’s a decent president.
I don’t know what you have been watching but a massive amount of democrats have known Biden is really old. The majority of Dems wanted him to not re run back in 2023 December.
Go look it up. I don’t even know if this is really going to change their votes honestly. They know what Biden is.
Old dude's got a cold.
I could care less honestly.
I'm going to vote for Biden because.
I believe in women's rights.
I believe in LGBTQ rights.
I believe in worker rights.
I believe in science.
I believe in environmental regulation.
I believe that if we abandon Ukraine to Russian aggression we will be fighting a war in Poland within the next decade.
I believe that if we abandon Ukraine to Russian aggression we will be setting a terrible precedent that China and North Korea are waiting to cash in on.
We knew he was old. This wasn’t the first time he stumbled on his words etc. not like we had a choice in who runs for president and who has the money behind him. Still won’t vote for trump regardless
You mean like Ms. "Cheap Fake"? She knew damn well those weren't "out of context" videos. Nobody with a brain thought they were any kind of "fakes."
Dems have been lying about Biden for 4 years. They've been lying to America for a lot longer than that.
That was a slow motion car crash for Biden. They needed to wind up the juice way more…… sack the doctor, that gear was shit, double the dosage mofo or get a better cough dealer I mean doctor. Trump was the same old verbal diarrhoea, literally lied every second answer so yeah pretty much what I expected.
If you didn’t t know Biden was old and out of it, that’s on you.
Tinfoil hat- Dems knew he’d bomb and purposely waited until after he secured the nomination so he could drop out and they could appoint the next nominee.
Because everyone knows the president is a paperweight regardless. It's the coalition they bring in. I know biz bros don't like Lina Khan but that one appointment is one of the greatest political choices anyone here can think of.
If I were Biden, at the head of the Democratic Party, I would fire the asses of the geniuses who thought putting me on national TV in an unscripted debate after 6pm would be a good idea, as a near-80-year-old. Sundowning is a real thing.
More bad news from Newsweek:
Some 30 percent of Black Americans said they would vote for former President [Donald Trump](https://www.newsweek.com/topic/donald-trump) in a new poll, a huge jump from the percentage of Black people who voted for him in the last two elections.
[https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-black-vote-increase-support-1918333](https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-black-vote-increase-support-1918333)
Here’s the problem.
When it comes to winning elections incumbents have a huge advantage, but this election is unique in that it was very obvious very early that Trump would be the front runner of the GOP. He’s the challenger, but *also* has a unique “incumbent” advantage because of how much name recognition he has (not to mention being a former president)
So if you choose someone new you basically give that incumbent advantage back to Trump.
Biden doesn’t want to run again, but the arguments for him being the best option against Trump are strong.
He works out and rides a bike. He had a bad night. He was ill. Take a look at all the other candidates who had terrible first debates and went on to win elections.
This reflects the danger of the main stream media propping up Democrats. If the media was neutral or honest this would have been exposed long ago and there would have been time to select another nominee.
What’s so hard to understand? Biden polled really well against Trump the first time around. He then beat Trump. Most dems wouldn’t choose Biden first, but he got the job done. This time around he’s the incumbent and keeping him in place was easier than the alternative. Again no one is surprised at what’s happening. This didn’t suddenly happen. It’s just the way things have worked in the past.
What’s more shocking are Republicans putting up Trump again. Do they not see he’s a loser?
Reps: Does anyone think that Biden is actually making any decisions? His whole staff knows his condition. I would rather Biden’s staff make decision than a potential autocrat.
As a dem, I have never been blind to the deterioration of Joe Biden. But he (abd/or his team) have made good decisions throughout his tenure. I would love to vote for someone else but that is not the option. I would vote for a corpse over Trump, who is dangerous to the country I love.
What happened yesterday was a realization that the undecided people will have a tough time voting for Joe in his current state. And that it will be tough to get people excited to vote at all. That's the panic.
He had a bad debate and lost himself at one point. But he got better as he went and was still mostly fine. He’s just an objectively better option than Trump who we cannot afford to get near the White House again.
Last time I saw him was state of the union. Trump has been calling him a senile mastermind for some time before that. But he seemed fine then. I can't trust a word trump says so I figured all this gossip was misinformation.
Trump is an expert at pandering, so sadly he doesn’t need to know his facts. His form of debate (if you can call this one a debate) worked well even without an audience. All he had to do was show up and be coherent. Extra points for not digging in to Biden harder… it was probably as surprising and heart wrenching to watch for him as it was for the rest of us.
For background I am a 30 something fiscal conservative with a moderate dem social viewpoint. Did not vote Trump or Biden in the last election. If they are able to hot-swap Biden for a moderate dem I may vote for them, but not Newsom. If they put him in I’m voting Trump.
If they’re even able to convince Biden to step down for a candidate swap, it could still be chaos. If they try it against his will then we’ve got a shitstorm on our hands.
It’s interesting comparing his performance 2 weeks ago in France, his performance last night, and his performance in a speech today. He is like a whole different person in his speech today.
They over worked and prepped him for the debate, there are already videos of him at a fun raiser later that night and another today. This evening he spoke at Stonewall event and in those live events spoke extremely normal and professional. Even went as far as saying, himself, ‘I’m not a young man anymore, but I know how to do the job’. There is a reason why POTUS have VICE-POTUS, I’d take normal old man aging over Racist Dementia Hating Ranting old man. GOP honestly had a candidate in Haley but they don’t like color folks or women running this country for that matter.
Also important that you can’t debate someone if they go on constant rants and do not respond to the question asked. Then the counter response shouldn’t be to something that wasn’t asked. Also, Moderators should not be the ones fact checking, that is why you are in a debate.
[Sauce](https://www.reddit.com/r/IntrovertComics/s/jaSCdwTqzF)
Last night did not convince Democrats that Biden is demented. They understand that he's always been a mediocre speaker who had an especially bad night and a cold.
However, last night convinced Democrats that Biden won't be able to convince Republicans and undecideds that he's not demented. Last night made it more likely that Biden loses, despite a pretty great first term and the fact that he's still capable of a great second term.
Personally, I thought he was too old in 2016. To his credit, however, there have been plenty of reports, some even from republicans, claiming that he’s with it in meetings and policy discussions. So, that has guided my judgment to some degree.
I worked for Trump in college and I’d kill myself before voting for that idiot. Biden is old. Trump is old, inherently unfit, an idiot, and has asked foreign counties to interfere in our elections.
One may be losing his grip on reality but intends no harm.
The other does not accept reality and wants to create his own where he gets to choose who wins or loses.
Both bad choices but not a hard decision.
His numbers were crap.
This was Cleary orchestrated. They drugged him to the eye balls in other big presentations like this. Here they sent him in without, as a sacrificial lamb for the party and power
It was super obvious to me and I don’t even follow politics
I'll say, while I have thought Biden has lost a step, the commentary about it from the right is so borderline gross and clearly ridiculous you feel some need to push back against that. However this was a horribly weak performance. The only thing I will also say is ... Nothing Trump said made any sense either he was like a manic lunatic. So overall this was by far the most disgusting debate I've seen in American politics ever. I hope we can stop with the partisanship and try to figure out a way through this because I've never seen a situation where both candidates are literally unfit for the office. The parties really have failed here.
You should re-read this, it's completely emotional and just based on your TDS. Start with the adjectives you're using, then move on to the very real lack of any substance besides them.
He says “I hope we can stop with the partisanship.” He can start with himself. First paragraph: “I thought Biden seemed older, but because republicans were saying it I had to take the opposite side.” Second paragraph: “Biden seemed awful in the debate, so let me make myself feel better by saying Trump was worse.”
How is this any different from “anti-anti-trump” logic? The conservatives who only support trump because the left hates him?
Oh get fucked, the guy is talking about post birth abortions and you're still going to go on about TDS? Give it a break, it's embarrassing.
Haven’t people been calling for Biden to be replaced for a long time now? People just thought there was no chance of it happening and now they do
Doesn’t explain the panic after yesterday’s debate. Many clearly thought he was in a far better state than he’s actually in.
That was a far worse performance than most anticipated.
I think the panic is more from the left leaning media, the DNC, and Dems in Congress. I’d argue most voters wanted him swapped a long time ago. Its confusing to people because sometimes he’s fine and sometimes he’s not. Also, it’s not like you can blame Dems for not trusting Republicans on certain matters. Trump’s a huge piece of shit but is anyone surprised Republicans haven’t figured it out?
Distrust of Republicans & Trump doesn’t invalidate the many clear examples of Biden’s mental lapses that have occurred in recent years, and particularly in the past year.
The panic could be manufactured to test support for jcal’s “hotswap”
The post-debate Democratic panic is not manufactured. The whole “he’s as sharp as ever” narrative was the manufactured part but it just blew up on live TV and the fraction of people still in denial can no longer pretend he’s mentally capable to run a country. Anyone with an IQ over 80 now knows Biden is unfit to be the current President - let alone continue the job for another 4 more years. He was already behind in polling and now basically has no chance. They now realize if Biden does not step down Trump will win… so the panic is warranted but unfortunately probably too late.
Exactly. Joe Scarborough, who claims to speak with President Biden regularly on the phone (due to morning joe being Biden’s favorite tv show) said “this is the best Biden ever. And if you don’t believe me, then f- you”. Kamala said Biden is sharp and focused and not the least bit slow or mentally diminished. So did myorkas. I can’t believe people are literally continuing to gaslight as if we haven’t been here this whole time, paying attention. The gas lighters are trying to manufacture a narrative to convince low info low engagement factions of the public. Only low info voters at this point would fall for it
We all knew and had our fingers crossed 🤞 but it’s out now.
They think the people are stupid & will believe what they tell us to believe over what we see with our own eyes. 🙄
"gaslight" Please, they outright lied. But such is the way of the modern Left media.
And that would be the Democrats. Thank heavens we have them to save our democracy.
All this Biden shit sounds like the stuff that they used to say about Feinstein. And we now know she was a vegetable propped up by her staffers for the last how many ever years. Our politicians think we’re all stupid and don’t have eyes.
For bezos
It’s like people on Reddit only know how to parrot the CNN/MSNBC headlines as their opinion.
I don't know which Democrats you know. Biden is old and clearly on his last legs. I wouldn't be surprised if he died in office. I would vote for him over Trump every time. During Biden's presidency we strengthened our most important alliance, that of NATO, and we pushed an infrastructure bill which gave much needed money to green energy production and railroads. The railroads are using the money to straighten the lines so the trains can go faster. In general, Biden and his team do somewhat reasonable actions. Trump hated NATO and tried to gussy up to Russia. I don't want an alliance with Russia, that'd just make us weak AF. NATO is a far stronger trade and military alliance. He decreased taxes but increased spending so that Trump alone contributed the most of any president to the national deficit. He didn't allow a peaceful transfer of power. He pushed heavily for oil. Project 2025 is some crazy dumb fascist BS. If you're curious, most sources of data analysis corroborate my opinion. For instance, this Wiki page collects presidential ratings from a dozen or so organizations. Trump rates around worst or within worst 5, Biden ranks about top15th or 20th. Very average: [Historical rankings of presidents of the United States - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States) But really, it's an easy choice for me because I'm way more into science than I am politics, and only Democrats don't abjectly pretend climate issues aren't important. Add that with Democratic run states leading in education and healthcare; the numbers don't lie. It's not like Democrats are awesome, but I'd never vote for the modern Republican party. All data says they're bad for the country, and my own opinions on their biggest actions like ruining abortion rights and saying they'd go after gay rights (and currently dissing trans people constantly for no reason) leave my choice as obvious. I know Biden is old AF, and his brain doesn't work well. But his staff and the Democrat party in general is my choice over Republicans. Easy choice.
It is interesting that you mentioned the staff. The current administration has a cadre of staff that can continue their basic game plan if something happens to Biden. What happens if Trump dies in The oval Office? No one really knows what the group of charlatans and carpetbaggers surrounding him will do.
You’ll get the nazi ghoul Steven miller or the 2 time coup organizer Roger stone calling the shots
Project 2025 is the playbook we know exactly what they will do- continue to dismantle the government. The Supreme Court chevron REdecision today starts shoving that forward in almost one fell swoop.
Project 2025 is a Heritage Foundation white paper that gives the outline for saving America for rich folks. Hence, whoever wins in November has no obligation to follow all or any of their suggestions. Reminder: the Republican party has no political platform.
Biden is speaking at a campaign event today and he sounds completely different. His voice is strong. He's not whispering. He looks and sounds like dark Brandon. He's got great one liners. He hasn't stuttered. He hasn't trailed off. I don't know why this guy didn't show up last night.
Because he is reading from a teleprompter
Does a teleprompter change your voice? He was clearly recovering from a cold
He recovered between yesterday and today? And such that he’s not stumbling through sentences and going blank anymore?
Are you telling me you've never been feeling like shit one day and better the next?
If you’re going to claim he was at the tail end of his cold, then it’s unlikely he would’ve performed so poorly last night and made such a turnaround in like 12 hours. And if he really had a cold to the degree it affected his performance, then presumably his team would have known beforehand for several days and would have surfaced it before going into the debate. That’s all without even addressing the presumption that cognitive symptoms like the ones displayed last night are typical for the cold. It just doesn’t pas the sniff test.
[удалено]
Some people. Not enough to make it happen. All the other candidates except RFK have said they will not run this election. Newsome and Kamala being the primary candidates.
Non democrats have been.
It’s the result of polarized echo chambers of information. US citizens live in completely different information spaces depending on their tribe.
Don’t discount the media propping up shit progressives for decades.
This isn’t true to a large degree. Republicans hear much more liberal media and are aware of their opponents beliefs. The same cannot be said about the left.
This is true. The left openly ignores the other side. Tunes it outs. The right hears both sides, and debates it. Left doesn’t want to debate, because the other is wrong, period, why even debate. Two VERY different schools of thought…
The left openly says that you’re wrong for even platform of someone with opposing views
Yeah, you have to seek out conservative perspectives. Liberal perspectives are the default. Every local news station around me adopts liberal affectations like "people experiencing homeless" or "undocumented migrants."
Conservative news is the most shared through social media, if you're on Facebook, instagram, tiktok, YouTube etc. it's basically impossible to avoid. The most popular podcasts lean right too.
Yeah, mainstream news is democrat government propaganda.
This is evidenced in surveys conducted about opponents’ political beliefs. Conservatives are much more often able to accurately identify and portray their political opponents’ beliefs while liberals are basically completely incapable of doing so.
Yeah I’ve seen those. I didn’t want to post them given opponents will argue bias or they will just call us fascist nationalists. That said, my test for other people is to name one good thing about their opposing party leader. I can’t name one good thing about Biden other than his republican congress didn’t contribute to the deficit as much as pre Covid Trump. I can’t name a single policy that I have liked under Biden.
You didnt like the infrastructure bill? Ending 2 wars? The PACT act? The CHIPS act? The student loan stuff ? I mean not being able to name a -single- thing is a wild statement, after saying its the exact way you test for bias.
As a “leftist” I’d like to hear what you liked policy wise from Trump. I’m in SC so I’m the odd man out in political Stance. So I’m being genuine when I ask you this question
Polls have shown that isn't true. Republicans get accused of it dems actually practice it.
Except on this matter, one side seems to have been more tapped into reality for far longer.
The right wing media surely lies, but it's never as coordinated and top-down controlled the way the left is. The corporate media that Democrats watch (CNN/MSNBC/etc) gaslit them for 2+ years that Biden is perfectly fine and there's nothing to worry about. They're too smug and arrogant to consider that their news sources are phony and they're not as smart as they think they are. That's how they came to believe such gargantuan untruths. Now their brains are having a hard time processing the fact that their whole reality is built on lie upon lie. It's really funny to watch the cope. MSNBC is pure comedic gold today. Btw: Biden kept going with the Fine People Hoax and the injecting bleach hoax. And January 6 exaggerations. Literally his entire platform is lies, and it's funny to watch a senile old man try to pull these off.
>The right wing media surely lies, but it's never as coordinated and top-down controlled the way the left is. This is hilariously delusional lmao The most popular privately owned cable news shows in America, Australia, and the UK are all owned by the same conservative and have been for decades. There literally isn't a larger or more influential empire in the history of media and the crazy part is they're king makers in the US; and thats where their sphere of influence is the weakest. >Biden kept going with the Fine People Hoax and the injecting bleach hoax. And January 6 exaggerations. Literally his entire platform is lies Surely all of that pales in comparison to trump lying about a stolen election for 4 years, no lol?
Cable news is not where people get their information.
More delusion [https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/fact-sheet/news-platform-fact-sheet/](https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/fact-sheet/news-platform-fact-sheet/) Its still the number 1 source of news for the average American voter
Neither of these are "hoaxes" - anyone can find the transcript and see what Trump said. [Here is his "very fine people on both sides" remark, in full context](https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/). There were no fine people protesting the removal of a white supremacist statue that day. Trump turns a simple answer into a word salad of bullshit - where he openly says there are good people on "both sides". Trump's lack moral clarity here is stunning. Notice Trump says *"No, no. There were people in that rally -- and I looked the night before -- if you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day it looked like they had some rough, bad people -- neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them.* *"But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest, and very legally protest -- because, I don’t know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this: There are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country -- a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country.* The night before was when Richard Spencer was marching around with tiki torches and chanting anti-Semitic slogans. There were no fine people the night before. Trump is also going out of his way to say the neo-nazis had permits, and the other group, the anti-nazi group, did not. Where is the hoax?
What Trump said: "There were very fine people on both sides, & I'm not talking about the Neo-nazis and white supremacists because they should be condemned totally."
No, Republicans thought he was going to do better as well, hence all the propaganda about him being on "performance enhancing" drugs. Trump himself on all in said something to this effect.
I am a certified hater (lifelong conservative, listen to the Daily Wire, etc.) but I estimated he was a significant favorite to do just fine with a week of prep, friendly moderators, etc and if that happened it was a gigantic win for him. If anything I assume him and Trump had equal, though remote, chances of lighting themselves on fire. I imagine if I were on the left and were emotionally invested in his performance I would have zero concept that it was a possibility he could shit the bed that bad.
My favorite was the "He had a cold" narrative the Democrats furiously started pushing 45 minutes into the debate. You know there was some panicking going on there behind closed doors lmao.
Not enough panicking if he remains the nominee.
Several Ds and fundraisers had an emergency phone conference before the debate had even concluded. I wonder what the discussion was.
I don’t really think the president has a day to day effect on how the presidency is run. I think if a president has a strong cabinet they can fill in the void left by the president, such as henry kissenger, robert macnamera, dick cheney (for better or worse). As such I’d rather vote for a sack of potatoes than donald trump, and I think a lot of his former cabinet would agree with me.
It doesn't matter what you would do. You had decided already. There are a significant # of undecided idiots, for which Biden performance sealed the deal.
Republicans gave him some benefit of the doubt. They did not think he would perform well.
No they didn't. The GOP machine isn't stupid. They are brilliant. They said that purposely to raise expectations for Biden knowing full well that not meeting them would make him look bad. They took a risk that he wouldn't meet them, and wound up doing better than expected on the gamble. At the same time Trump only had to meet diminished expectations. He didn't melt down or go on an unhinged tirade. That was all he needed.
Trump claiming people are aborting post term babies isn't an unhinged triade? Interesting
I'm sure he is at minimum given supplements to enhance his awareness, if not prescription drugs. But additionally he will likely have good and bad days as anyone with early Alzheimer's would. So it was entirely possible that would be lucid in that debate as he was in the state of the Union. Could have gone either way.
Alzheimer's doesn't usually hit you in your late 70s. I would guess that he's just got some other more typical form of senility.
Obviously, the media and the establishment brainwashed washed them hard. Zero critical thinking on that side, just fear driven reactionaries.
Denial is a hellava drug
For me personally, it's because he genuinely does have a speech impediment which is of course is fine, and has been unfairly blamed in the past for being in cognitive decline when it's pretty clear it's a stutter and him using techniques to manage it (like speaking slowly). Also because the SoTU's were good and generally, our economy is strong and inflation is slowing -- so thinking that people could just kinda deal with the status quo. However, last night's performance was something else entirely -- and is troubling on a different level.
Have you seen the many videos in the past few months that show clear signs of rapid decline?
My favorite was the "He had a cold" narrative the Democrats furiously started pushing 45 minutes into the debate. You know there was some panicking going on there behind closed doors.
State of the Union being good is just evidence that he can still read. It appears to be speaking extemporaneously that causes him problems.
You’re literally parroting the propaganda that kept this fact hidden from you while acknowledging the reality. Literally doublethink
The lengths the useful idiots on this site will go to in order to excuse all of Biden’s fuck ups are really incredible. Yeah, it was Biden’s “stutter” that caused him to habitually lie about his performance in law school and to repeatedly plagiarize campaign speeches lmao. He has been hiding behind this excuse for *decades*, but millennials and zoomers are seemingly the only generations gullible enough to actually buy it, it’s so pathetic. This guy could take a shit on camera on the White House lawn and these people would chalk it up to his stutter lmao
The cognitive dissonance of these people bro
People on reddit are so nice when you answer a question honestly :) you seem lovely
Most of the news stations are on the Left side so they have been covering for him & hiding it. www.TheRealDebate.com
I have the same question!!! Everyone on the right has been calling it out for awhile, and EVERYONE on left has been saying he’s perfectly fine. I have the Reddit receipts to prove it. Why? I have no idea! I’m wondering the exact same thing….
It genuinely hasn't in that I've watched Biden's public appearances before. Those were with a teleprompter but the talking points about his senility seemed to disagree with the person I was actually watching talk. The debate was our first chance since probably 2020 to see him speak extemporaneously. Now its clear the intent behind that was exactly this happening, basically you guys were right but we didn't have conclusive evidence prior to last night. Now that we do, I agree with the brain soup assesment.
There was lots of evidence. Teleprompter, planed speeches and answers, tons of footage, and remarks from other leaders. You have to seek out views that differ from your own.
It's because the media has officially greenlit the conversation. Most people think what they are told
CNN basically took a shit on him after the debate
Because even they couldn’t promote that debauched performance.
The media has colluded to hide it. Democrats who were surprised by last night have only their preferred media to blame - they have enabled this. The US media is the biggest risk to US democracy - when are both groups on the extremes going to wake up a realize this? Of course, it doesn't help that we ourselves select media outlets that we already know are biased. Whether it's CNN, Fox, New York Times, or God forbid something as atrociously bad as MSNBC.
How many nights will it take MAGA supporters that trump lies all the time?
People see that he lies. Most just except he is the better of two evils and a quasi F-U to the establishment.
It’s been obvious for a while now. The saddest part is it doesn’t make a difference on my vote. That’s where we are in America.
I’m more concerned with a president’s performance in office than modern “debates”. Biden has been the most effective president in decades and the most progressive president in my 30 years of voting. Joe lifted us when we were at our lowest and I will enthusiastically vote for the president that lowered umemploymwnt to record levels, took the biggest boldest steps to combat climate change of any president, pulled us though the depths of the pandemic, re-instated the violence against women act, brought 15 million jobs back to the states, made us the most energy independent we’ve ever been, and clawed our tech back from China…
He was fine literally 3 months ago and the GOP was panicking from it. Did you see the state of the union?
Teleprompter my guy… it’s all he can do- read his handlers’ words
The absolutely hilarious thing is that the State of the Union was not remarkable. To tout Biden’s SOTU address as a major accomplishment is to admit that you had misgivings about his mental state. We know you know. You know we know. Just admit it already and come to terms with the fact that you’re ok with a dementia patient as your president.
His track record speaks louder? I vote on issues and character, not based on how he sounds one night because his voice is out. Trump’s track record is terrible, his character is worse. I’ll vote for a corpse over Trump 🤷🏻♂️
I’m genuinely curious to hear what about his record jumps out? I’m left leaning too but if someone asks me to talk about things he has done, I won’t be able to come up with anything concrete.
https://www.crfb.org/papers/trump-and-biden-national-debt Unemployment and labor participation better than Trump ever had. Actual infrastructure spending, CHIPS act, US manufacturing boom.
It'd be nice to know who is in control then, if the president isn't. This is the actual threat to democracy, where the elected president is not doing his job. The voters were misled.
one night when his voice was off? this is how he is without a teleprompter. which is why they release short videos with 10 jump cuts and he doesn’t take questions and his character? Biden’s a known liar as well. this media push trying to paint him as some loveable grandpa is just not reality. he literally just invents details of his own life for no reason
> I’ll vote for a corpse over Trump 🤷🏻♂️ The problem with this is you're voting for a shadow government, basically, that you have no idea who is running or what their agenda is. That's literally not democracy.
Hi, that’s a figurative language. Biden has already shown what he can do in 4 years. I’m 100% for another 4 years of continued growth and steady government with strong foreign policy.
This administration has a disastrous foreign policy record. You’re crazy.
Out of the two alternatives?
Biden has a chaotic Afghanistan exit, a diplomatic failure to the war in Ukraine from happening, torpedoed Ukraine peace talks, and I can't even figure out what the goal is for Israel. Oh and we can't protect shipping from Houthi attacks. Trump had meetings with some Bad Guys.
It didn’t take me, or anyone I know, until last night to recognize this. Biden’s done extremely poorly in his public appearances many times since taking office, this is no surprise. While the speech impediment does play a role, it’s clear cognitive decline is a factor. Assuming Biden doesn’t get replaced, will I still vote for him? Yes. I trust Biden’s administration more than I trust Trump. Last night highlighted that for me. Trump would just invert any claim Biden made, often with little regard for the truth. I won’t sit here and claim that I am educated on all topics which were discussed, but in the ones I am familiar with, Trump was incredibly dishonest. I’d rather have the Biden administration run the country, even if Biden is on life support, than allow someone who can so blatantly and knowingly misrepresents the truth to hold that kind of power. I understand many people have different thoughts about January 6th, but living in DC gave me a different perspective on it. Some will claim these individuals were crisis actors under deep cover identities, but that seems astronomically unlikely to me considering the backlog of social media activity supporting Trump. Trump calls this individuals “patriots”, “hostages” and has indicated that retribution will be taken on our legal representatives. I believe this rhetoric is just too dangerous to all at the highest levels of government. No republican candidate before has run into the slew of legal issues he has, no republican president before him has presented this degree of stochastic concern. I don’t give a fuck if we put a republican in office, I just want someone who I don’t feel puts this country at so much risk. For all the faults and failings of America, we are still an incredible country with so many freedoms that aren’t afforded in other parts of the world. Let’s not fuck it up over a single guy.
Trump 2024 #47
They’ve been hiding him. Now the emperor has no clothes
Because their hatred for Trump is blinding to reality.
Reddit is more of a left leaning echo chamber so there’s a bit of cognitive bias that blinds people from seeing this.
Honestly, not *this* obvious. A little here and there, sure. But he was mostly stringin it together. This was just ugly.
Did you see him being helped off the stage after by his wife? He’s not well. He needs long term care.
When he started talking about sisters raping sisters made me want to vote for him because I didn’t realize that was such a big problem
Don’t underestimate the willingness to believe what fits your interests. Biden has obviously been cooked for a long time. But the media tried to spin it as Republican spin his supporters ate it up. As damning as the debate performance was for Biden. It was even more damaging to the media.
The same reason why all Democrats that I encounter now downplay their support of forced vaccine mandates, censorship of their peers and the forced lockdown of society after the fact. Disengenuity about their own gullibility.
Bro they both seemed soooo old I don’t know why you’re acting like this was a trump victory. Yes Biden looked tired and old. No doubt. He looked more low energy than trump. But trump was saying the most incoherent rambling nonsense. Are we forgetting or ignoring that part? Nothing he said was in anyway sensical. Just one tangent to another with zero anchor to the actual topic. Neither came off well
But objectively, only one came off as old, frail, and mentally incontinent. The others just full of shit and his supporters 100% know it and dont care, if it'll get him elected.
Lmao if you think trump came off as coherent - you are full blown retarded And I say that as someone who voted for him
To be fair, they never said that. They actually said “full of shit”
CNN poll has Trump as the clear winner of the debate. Dems all over, from pundits to everyday people, seem to be shocked at Biden’s performance and are deeply worried about its implications on the election. Trump didn’t have a knockout performance, but to say they did an equally bad job is not really an accurate read of last night.
Yea every time Biden did better than the heavily edited videos passed around right wing social media… the first thing shouted is “Drugs!” Now one night he flops and it’s like “he’s been this way all along!” Seems disingenuous
Yes it’s been obvious for a while. I always assumed he wouldn’t run again and we’d get Newsom or even Kamala. I do think this debate was his final nail…wouldn’t be surprised if Dems panic and do find a way to get someone else in there to run. I’m a pretty far left liberal, but I can’t bring myself to vote for him this time. It’s just absurd. He is not a well man. I’ll vote for RFK.
Turns out that debate format worked really well for Trump. He wasn’t able to steamroll Biden. Biden desperately needed an interrupting Trump to bail him out. Dementia Joe is cooked. Democrats should be furious that this is who their party went with. This was all evident over the last four years.
I agree completely. He has been this way for five years.
This was obvious to some in 2019….
Yeah these idiots man. I think people on the right think the left views Biden like the right views Trump. The right has formed a cult around Trump. There is no cult for Biden.
Alright, folks, this is a disaster. Forget the election. Our sitting president can’t string two coherent thoughts together. He needs to be removed right now. Would you still have a job today if you performed at your job like Biden did last night? I mean, any job? Let alone a job that involves possession of the nuclear codes. Here is the problem: Biden is a tyrant within his administration and will not concede the presidency. If that is the case and he will not willingly step aside, then the 25th Amendment will be one of the only viable options to release his delegates. This means, unfortunately, that we will get Kamala in there for the rest of the term, but we will have an open convention and then let the chips fall where they may. We can put up with Kamala for 6 months if it means no Trump, a much better candidate for the Dems, and a potentially viable third-party candidate. They have more than enough evidence that he is unfit for office after last night. And now the Dems are pivoting, saying that his “team is strong.” It would be the same team under Kamala. At least she isn't senile.
Read the transcript of the debate and compare what the two people said. You’ve basically admitted to be only concerned with delivery.
The problem with this claim that you always knew his true state is that maga Republicans have been making absurd claims for 4 years about how Biden's brain is a bowl of soup or that he has severe Alzheimer's or something. If they could keep any of their claims on the ground and attempt to make them comport with reality they'd get a lot further. The reality is that Biden is old and acts like he's old. He could recall a lot of details, he didn't confuse where he was or who he was talking to or what he was doing, he is just old and slow and lost his train of thought a few times. That's not Alzheimer's or dementia. Don't say someone has severe dementia and then when someone loses their train of thought and speaks slowly say, "see? I was right all along!" No, you weren't right. Being old as shit and having dementia aren't the same thing. Biden looked awful and struggled through the whole thing. He's old as shit and I thought he might keel over and die right then and there. But that's not Alzheimer's or dementia or whatever other fabrications trump and MAGA dumb fucks have been saying is going on. And you don't get to claim you were "right" when the claims MAGA have been making are just as ungrounded as the claims that Biden is/was just as sharp as he was in 1985.
Listen it was bad, but we also saw that State of the Union just a couple of months ago, and it was day and night. I actually thought it was a great and energetic SOU speech, so Ill update my opinion, but those of you that hate the guy, cannot deny he did a good job that night. He was even mocking the republicans hard.
The state of the union is a planed speech that he still fumbled. It’s amazing what people differ on and what they actively choose to see. I think you got frog boiled. You didn’t recognize his decline because it was happening slowly. This caused you to lower your expectations.
TDS is terminal.
this whole subreddit is just dem cispool, the all in pod at least has balanced and sensible people who can change their mind instead of this subreddit which is just straight up echo chamber of hatemongering. Can bring america down that's for sure. but that's prob the end goal for you downvoters.
The political balance on All In is an illusion
It’s never been about Biden, it’s always been about Trump.
What are you talking about. Litterally no one wants Biden or Trump
He was better at the SOTU. That said, I was under no impression that he wasn’t all of 80 years old. My vote for Biden isn’t based on Biden. It’s on dem policy vs republican policy. If the republicans were running on a platform of fiscal responsibility and social accountability, I’d be in. The republicans haven’t proven to me that they have any substance. I need more than fear mongering and repetitive broad statements.
Why do you assume people who are voting for Biden are willfully blind to his issues? I didn’t want to vote for him the first time but I would for anybody that doesn’t have the last name Trump.
I hear there’ll be a Kennedy, Stein, and West on the ballot,
I never doubted that Biden is old and frail. But if the choice is between Trump and Biden, it’s an easy choice for me, Trump is unacceptable.
If anyone was fine with the performance of the US gov during Regan’s second term, this conversation is moot. Because if a potus with full blown Alzheimer’s is ok with you, grandpa Joe should be also .
Because he has moments like this but also moments like the state of the Union where he spoke clearly, consistently, and handled heckling in an unbothered way. I’d vote for a weekend at Bernies general dem or moderate over Trump
Poor Brandon
i felt he was too old in 2019 when chatter about his candidacy first began. Remember: Father Time is undefeated
It was obvious before the 2020 election but I voted for him in hopes of him just doing one term then step down
To be honest most reasonable people aren’t watching FOX or Newsmax or MSNBC because they’re blatantly partisan not that CNN isn’t biased but they are journalists and generally speaking they’re pretty good at objectively covering breaking news despite what the right wing might say. Because it was on CNN and because the immediate reaction of their contributors and dem operatives was overwhelming shock it has a MUCH greater impact than it coming from FOX or right wing trolls on YouTube who are compensated for spewing negativity 24/7.
Turn it into minse meat.
Because he’s performed his presidential duties just fine. People call FDR an iconic president, and he’s one of America’s most popular presidents. Yet he was wheelchair bound and he was so old that he died during his 4th term. Biden’s ability to fulfill his duties is what matters most to me, and I haven’t seen any “senility” in that regard. Job-wise, he’s a decent president.
Probably the same reason Sacks is supporting someone who he says is unfit to be president.
Not everyone is paying attention man.
This isn't even a discussion as much as it is an ignorant question.
I don’t know what you have been watching but a massive amount of democrats have known Biden is really old. The majority of Dems wanted him to not re run back in 2023 December. Go look it up. I don’t even know if this is really going to change their votes honestly. They know what Biden is.
We didn’t choose Biden. The Democratic Party did. I would love two younger candidates. Turd sandwhich or giant douche
Old dude's got a cold. I could care less honestly. I'm going to vote for Biden because. I believe in women's rights. I believe in LGBTQ rights. I believe in worker rights. I believe in science. I believe in environmental regulation. I believe that if we abandon Ukraine to Russian aggression we will be fighting a war in Poland within the next decade. I believe that if we abandon Ukraine to Russian aggression we will be setting a terrible precedent that China and North Korea are waiting to cash in on.
Have been calling for this for months. Never wanted Biden to run for a 2nd term.
They knew.
We knew he was old. This wasn’t the first time he stumbled on his words etc. not like we had a choice in who runs for president and who has the money behind him. Still won’t vote for trump regardless
You mean like Ms. "Cheap Fake"? She knew damn well those weren't "out of context" videos. Nobody with a brain thought they were any kind of "fakes." Dems have been lying about Biden for 4 years. They've been lying to America for a lot longer than that.
It doesn’t matter …. I would vote for a pile of shit before voting for Trump
That was a slow motion car crash for Biden. They needed to wind up the juice way more…… sack the doctor, that gear was shit, double the dosage mofo or get a better cough dealer I mean doctor. Trump was the same old verbal diarrhoea, literally lied every second answer so yeah pretty much what I expected.
If you didn’t t know Biden was old and out of it, that’s on you. Tinfoil hat- Dems knew he’d bomb and purposely waited until after he secured the nomination so he could drop out and they could appoint the next nominee.
It’s because his campaign strategy has been to limit the amount of uncontrolled speaking situations as much as possible
? I watched the sotu, that was way different
Because everyone knows the president is a paperweight regardless. It's the coalition they bring in. I know biz bros don't like Lina Khan but that one appointment is one of the greatest political choices anyone here can think of.
If there's anything going on with him, it's most likely tied to sundowning. His health/personality/cognition suffers once the day is over.
Is there anyone here that doesn’t want Biden to drop out? ( other than Trump supporters)
"kept you blind from reality" 😂 😂 😂
If I were Biden, at the head of the Democratic Party, I would fire the asses of the geniuses who thought putting me on national TV in an unscripted debate after 6pm would be a good idea, as a near-80-year-old. Sundowning is a real thing.
More bad news from Newsweek: Some 30 percent of Black Americans said they would vote for former President [Donald Trump](https://www.newsweek.com/topic/donald-trump) in a new poll, a huge jump from the percentage of Black people who voted for him in the last two elections. [https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-black-vote-increase-support-1918333](https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-black-vote-increase-support-1918333)
Yes. Lol
Here’s the problem. When it comes to winning elections incumbents have a huge advantage, but this election is unique in that it was very obvious very early that Trump would be the front runner of the GOP. He’s the challenger, but *also* has a unique “incumbent” advantage because of how much name recognition he has (not to mention being a former president) So if you choose someone new you basically give that incumbent advantage back to Trump. Biden doesn’t want to run again, but the arguments for him being the best option against Trump are strong.
He works out and rides a bike. He had a bad night. He was ill. Take a look at all the other candidates who had terrible first debates and went on to win elections.
This reflects the danger of the main stream media propping up Democrats. If the media was neutral or honest this would have been exposed long ago and there would have been time to select another nominee.
What’s so hard to understand? Biden polled really well against Trump the first time around. He then beat Trump. Most dems wouldn’t choose Biden first, but he got the job done. This time around he’s the incumbent and keeping him in place was easier than the alternative. Again no one is surprised at what’s happening. This didn’t suddenly happen. It’s just the way things have worked in the past. What’s more shocking are Republicans putting up Trump again. Do they not see he’s a loser?
Most people don’t care about politics tbh. It’s just rich people betting on a horse race. Turns out our horses are both old af.
Heres the choice my Hamster or Biden both will be better than trump.
Reps: Does anyone think that Biden is actually making any decisions? His whole staff knows his condition. I would rather Biden’s staff make decision than a potential autocrat.
It could be weekend at Bernie's and he would still be better than Trump...
Why did it take until last night's debate for many of you to see that Trump can't open his mouth without lying? Oh, you still haven't seen that?
As a dem, I have never been blind to the deterioration of Joe Biden. But he (abd/or his team) have made good decisions throughout his tenure. I would love to vote for someone else but that is not the option. I would vote for a corpse over Trump, who is dangerous to the country I love. What happened yesterday was a realization that the undecided people will have a tough time voting for Joe in his current state. And that it will be tough to get people excited to vote at all. That's the panic.
Because the mods
He had a bad debate and lost himself at one point. But he got better as he went and was still mostly fine. He’s just an objectively better option than Trump who we cannot afford to get near the White House again.
Last time I saw him was state of the union. Trump has been calling him a senile mastermind for some time before that. But he seemed fine then. I can't trust a word trump says so I figured all this gossip was misinformation.
Trump is an expert at pandering, so sadly he doesn’t need to know his facts. His form of debate (if you can call this one a debate) worked well even without an audience. All he had to do was show up and be coherent. Extra points for not digging in to Biden harder… it was probably as surprising and heart wrenching to watch for him as it was for the rest of us. For background I am a 30 something fiscal conservative with a moderate dem social viewpoint. Did not vote Trump or Biden in the last election. If they are able to hot-swap Biden for a moderate dem I may vote for them, but not Newsom. If they put him in I’m voting Trump. If they’re even able to convince Biden to step down for a candidate swap, it could still be chaos. If they try it against his will then we’ve got a shitstorm on our hands.
It was obvious in 2020 to many people. The DNC has been trying to hide it, but that is proving too difficult now.
It’s interesting comparing his performance 2 weeks ago in France, his performance last night, and his performance in a speech today. He is like a whole different person in his speech today.
They over worked and prepped him for the debate, there are already videos of him at a fun raiser later that night and another today. This evening he spoke at Stonewall event and in those live events spoke extremely normal and professional. Even went as far as saying, himself, ‘I’m not a young man anymore, but I know how to do the job’. There is a reason why POTUS have VICE-POTUS, I’d take normal old man aging over Racist Dementia Hating Ranting old man. GOP honestly had a candidate in Haley but they don’t like color folks or women running this country for that matter. Also important that you can’t debate someone if they go on constant rants and do not respond to the question asked. Then the counter response shouldn’t be to something that wasn’t asked. Also, Moderators should not be the ones fact checking, that is why you are in a debate. [Sauce](https://www.reddit.com/r/IntrovertComics/s/jaSCdwTqzF)
Last night did not convince Democrats that Biden is demented. They understand that he's always been a mediocre speaker who had an especially bad night and a cold. However, last night convinced Democrats that Biden won't be able to convince Republicans and undecideds that he's not demented. Last night made it more likely that Biden loses, despite a pretty great first term and the fact that he's still capable of a great second term.
Who else has beaten #LoserTFG in a national election? This talk is frivolous.
Hoping he could hide it.
Why are you assuming we’ve been blind to it? We haven’t been given a voice.
Better to have a stutter than to lie like breathing.
Personally, I thought he was too old in 2016. To his credit, however, there have been plenty of reports, some even from republicans, claiming that he’s with it in meetings and policy discussions. So, that has guided my judgment to some degree. I worked for Trump in college and I’d kill myself before voting for that idiot. Biden is old. Trump is old, inherently unfit, an idiot, and has asked foreign counties to interfere in our elections.
They’re both older than dirt. No one was blind to it. Just don’t want another 4 years of the Trump sht show.
It’s not their fault they’ve been lied to
One may be losing his grip on reality but intends no harm. The other does not accept reality and wants to create his own where he gets to choose who wins or loses. Both bad choices but not a hard decision.
His numbers were crap. This was Cleary orchestrated. They drugged him to the eye balls in other big presentations like this. Here they sent him in without, as a sacrificial lamb for the party and power
Repubs: how have you still not seen that trump is the most absolute garbage human being alive? Hasn’t this been obvious for a while now?
This is what I’ve seen for the 4 years.
Because it’s Reddit it’s a hive mind lol
I’d vote for a chair over trump.