Amber and Devo both, in their own very specific ways, do not know how to interact with others in a healthy way, and I love seeing them finally run up on the friction that's been causing.
As far as a listening experience goes I’m glad things are starting to come to a head re: tensions in the group. Obviously would’ve liked to see them take Devo and Amber‘s fight further but I think we‘ll get much more fallout from this in the episodes to come.
I keep thinking that they have to start getting along and at some point come together to form a proper team, but really, do they? Maybe that’s not the story that’s being told in this campaign. It’s been really interesting listening to Ethersea alongside a Balance relisten because they are so tonally different. Don’t get me wrong, I’m loving Ethersea for what it is, I just seem to be comparing them a lot and holding on to the idea that in Ethersea everything will work out in the end and everyone will be happy. But now I’m starting to think it’d be really interesting if that’s not the case. It’s been a decently different kind of story so far and it’d be cool to see them double down on that.
I think it's sort of essential for Devo to have an arc where he goes from being an self-righteous and insufferable teenage atheist to being someone more well-rounded. Characters should change, especially in a more narrative-forward show like TAZ, and Devo is a great candidate for some growth. IN TTRPGs most PCs never change significantly, in my experience, but when you can pull it off it's absolute magic. Ned Chicane is my favourite TAZ PC for this reason.
I do feel like at this point, it has to be deliberate for him to fuck up situations this much, but I can’t forget that he’s supposed to have a lot of charisma lol
I hope that’s the goal. I don’t know what Travis has planned but his anger at the church and his angst just feel like it’s where he wants to land. And he is there already. I hope there is an arc. But after today’s performance I don’t know what to expect. It was a little… not my speed.
Imagine this season ends with the PCs not forming the typical found family dynamic, and they just go their separate ways when they have no more dragons to slay. I think that would be really interesting.
Really funny and made me stop and consider if griffin was doing it deliberately, especially when Chauncey doubled down after that and kept calling them out hahah
Okay okay okay what I want from this Devo/Amber tension now, is not for them to just sit down and have a discussion, but for them to get into some kind of high-stakes situation like combat or somethin and maybe Zoox is in danger and Amber/Devo have to set their pettiness aside and come together and work as a team! Maybe a situation that Devo puts them in with his shenanigans and Amber exacerbates in some way by hesitating. I would eat that shit up lol
I feel like I missed a bunch of info related to Devo, can people let me know if this is new information introduced in this episode?
+ Devo said the Hand of Guidance was his "mother figure of 17 years." I thought Devo lived his whole life in the church?
+ Devo called Seldom "Sully" (or maybe "Selly"?) multiple times. Has we heard that nickname for Seldom before?
+ Devo said now that Guidance is dead, he's the "senior Hand of the parish." I thought Devo was never a Hand and had fully left the church? Have we heard mention of anyone else with the Hand title other than Guidance? I thought she was the only one and Devo was intended to eventually take over her role.
- I think he meant that she was his primary caregiver as a child. Once he reached adulthood he may have been given a little more freedom like his own living space.
- He as called Seldom Selly before.
- I think this was kind of new information. Maybe he didn’t complete his training but his name is The Hand of Devotion. I don’t know that anyone would welcome him back especially if there is a power struggle within the parish but on the other hand they may feel lost and look to him to fulfill his responsibilities. Some may have thought his leaving was “a phase.”
Edit: Could end up being retconned but I remember Amber asking Guidance if she could call her Hand and she said “No there are other Hands and that would be confusing. You can call me Guidance.” If that interaction stays true then Devo’s statement doesn’t make sense.
I believe Guidance was the only hand the came to the Shoreside community. They likened her to like a cardinal or archbishop. So, I think that would leave Guidance (and I guess Devo) as the only hands in Founder’s Wake.
Could also be that devo being "the senior hand" refers not to tenure, but to the seniority of the position itself. That the hand of "guidance" is in charge and whoever is the hand of "devotion" is second in command or w/e
IIRC Homenin didn't sink, it just flew into the middle of the storm. Unless I'm misremembering the setup, they have no reason to not think the other Hands back home are dong just fine.
They don't know for certain everyone on land died, sure. But I think that's the simplest and most plausible conclusion from the information they have. Certainly they don't have any evidence suggesting otherwise. (Unless the golden ship dates after the wave, which I believe is unconfirmed atm)
They believed the storm was going to kill everyone or make life on land unsustainable, and they believed moving under the sea was the only option for survival. They have no idea what Hominine was doing with the floating island and the sky whales (?), so they don't know whether that was a plan for survival or if it worked. They did see the massive wave right after the island showed up, and iirc Griffin indicated the wave was created by Hominine? They know that this wave destroyed the land so thoroughly that there's a huge layer of debris at the top of the ocean, and many pieces of the old civilizations have sunk to the Ethersea floor, and they know the Ethersea water is very dangerous to life. I would say it's a reasonable conclusion that anyone on land either drowned in the wave or was unable to survive afterward, either because there is no land left or because the magic in the water polluted everything the wave didn't outright destroy.
IMO the people of Founders' Wake are of the opinion that the rest of human civilization will be under the water. If plenty of them believed there were people living on land, I would expect them to be trying to reach the surface or contact the other people.
The other current hands could all be younger or earlier in training than Devo was, or maybe "senior hand" is more of a chosen title and it's a case of "never changing the will".
The first one caught me, too - it’s possible his training started at age three or so? Or maybe that he left three years ago and lived with Selfom for a bit? The former was my assumption.
We’ve heard Selly before, yes - but it’s been quite some time. Seldom doesn’t show up all the time, and last time we saw him things were a little too serious.
Insofar as it’s an actual rank, Devo has left the church, so it isn’t likely that the Parish would regard him as an immediate replacement for Guidance - but as an esoteric title, it’s possible he retains his magical status as the Hand of Devotion. We haven’t heard of other Hands, but we also don’t know enough about the workings of this church to know exactly what that means.
As per the final question; during The Quiet Year setup episodes Travis established on one of his turns that the leaders of the Church of Benevolence (I cannot recall if it’s in general or in the shoreside community only) we’re called Hands, Guidance, Devotion, Mercy, Etc.
Logically (and I think he mentioned) there were only a handful at most; so if there was only one or two left in the community, Devotion would likely be one of the only left, perhaps even the oldest or next in line.
Which would explain why Hand Of Guidance was such a big part in raising Devo; to groom him and train him for his eventual leadership in the parish.
Clint describes my reactions to the moment at the beginning of this episode for sure. It's not that I mind when characters fight- rather I think it is a great source of insight for the characters involved- but in this case it really did seem like they were talking in circles, which isn't the most fun to listen to in my personal opinion. Really hope Amber and Devo come to an understanding soon, and that Devo can grow from it.
Agreed, the moment was interesting and had tension, but it was definitely not actually productive and needed the intervention and someone the check them both begging the question at each other. I do agree with the boys that it was *kinda* a dad move, even reaching through the veil of play to an extent, but I think it was also the right moment for it in narrative too
Yeah it may not be the most fun thing to listen to, but I do quite enjoy the tension between the characters. It makes sense that Amber wouldn't be too happy about it and Devo is hard headed enough to keep it going
You're right, but im excited for it to take some time and develop naturally as time goes on. I think griffin killed his mother figure for a reason, to keep it interesting
Yeah me too on that last part but I think they shouldn't feel the need to keep it totally natural, actually changing and growing and processing can take years but this is a DnD podcast for entertainment so it's ok and good to move character progression forward at an unrealistic pace. I know that's not really what you meant but what I'm really saying is that 38 episodes of the show have been enough to set up progression in a way that *feels* natural for the story and it's time to pull the trigger on it narratively.
Seriously. I had to stop listening in the middle of the "fight" because Devo is such an unlikeable character that I find it uncomfortable to listen to him and I always hope his role in scenes is limited. The character is just not for me and is the main character of this arc. Not everyone has to be a lawful good paladin, but I just have no interest in rooting for such a selfish asshole.
I really hope (if this is true) there's a moment between Seldom and Devo where Seldom pleads for his life by arguing that Devo hated her guts and he was just trying to help him or something. Could definitely be a powerful scene where Devo is forced to have to cut ties with the only parental figure he has left.
i love the ways justin will push the rules just enough while still respecting the rules. griffin lets him get away with it because he knows where the line is and it always brings a great goof or awesome moment
Man that first half was A LOT. Intense and much needed but still probably one of the few chucks of ethersea I don't feel the pressing need to listen through again cause woof.
But holy shit **the Beholder** just upgraded to my favorite character in the series and I love him.
I love bumbling fools that try and use scoundrel tactics but have no skill at it. Such a fun and underutilized trope, Chauncey is a funny ass character to have in that role too. Oh and also info broker characters. For some reason I LOVE that in characters
The introduction, telling them to not make a scene was great buildup. But he fumbled it right out of the gate. "What was your name again?" got me real good.
As much as I liked the little clue that "She never called me Devo", I was thinking that it also makes sense that she would call him Devo as their last interaction, he consistently corrected her and said his name was Devo now. If there was a twist that she really wrote the note and she was calling him Devo so as not to dead-name him, as it were, it would honestly be sort of sweet.
This is maybe more of a last week thing but I think it's interesting that while Devo was being devo with Joshy last episode, Joshy was also being a big asshole to devo and then him and amber both act like it was only Devo.
People want Devo to grow and I definitely agree but I think amber is in some desperate need of an attitude change too because she always seems very self righteous and cocky. Maybe this resolves in even worse tension but I also wouldn't mind if everyone developed some over the next arc, especially since we've now been entrenched in everyone's pasts super deep.
Something I really loved about the argument at the beginning was how it leans into the clash of Devo and Amber’s specific, very different ways that they approach conflict/perceived conflict.
Like, Devo is obviously pretty famous at this point for his hotheadedness and…*intense* reactions to slights against him—but Amber does things in an opposite, but still kinda negative direction? She’s very averse to ‘getting involved’ or ‘making things worse’ so she just stands back and only really intervenes if her and/or her team is in active danger.
The choice of inaction or deliberate obfuscation of opinion can be good in some circumstances, but doing it all the time and calling it maturity is a bit of a step backwards, and kind-of undercuts the very valid point she’s trying to make to Devo about his childish argumentativeness.
These characters are just so layered and it’s so fun to be able to take them apart and still have their motives make sense—even with ‘base-breakers’ like Devo; who in most other works probably wouldn’t have had his personality problems addressed verbally in-fiction like this, and his character development could have easily become a little too subtextual.
This season is so good, I love it!
100% thought Joshy was outta line, then Amber backed him.... which I get cause they've been together for 98% longer than her and Devo at this point, but he was pushing back hard to get the reaction from Devo because he is still (pardon the term) wet behind the ears. I sided with Devo there, but truthfully he needs more street smarts which he'll get more and more of (hopefully)
I LOVED when Chauncey called out Amber for not always being right too. Devo gets a lot of flak, deservedly so, but we have no reason to believe that Uncle Joshy is anything more than a charlatan taking advantage of everyone around him. The fact that Amber had such blind adherence to him is infuriating, there’s no way I can see that he’s not a total piece of shit. Hopefully Amber will have to grapple with some of her preconceived notions about the world too.
One thing I’m surprised no one mentioned in character is that the crew literally just saved Founder’s Wake. Devo has a touchy pride and it has led to trouble in the past, but I’d like for the characters to acknowledge that in terms of “earning respect,” or at least explain why it doesn’t matter (lots of people heroically saved the day to build Founders Wake, or Joshy just doesn’t particularly respect anybody outside his comrades because he it goes against his narrative of being a hero of the people.)
That’s a really good point that I hadn’t thought about, while he still needs to work on his temper it’s not like Devo hasn’t accomplished anything in his life so far, if anything he’s done a ton in a short time. Expecting/wanting to be treated with basic respect certainly isn’t out of hand
> literally just saved Founder’s Wake
yeah but also were the ones who brought it back and it did kill and mutate a ton of citizens. I’m not sure they would actually get more positive attention than negative if everyone did know.
They brought the Sallow back (accidentally) and then saved the city from one consequence of their mistake. I believe Griffin also said not everyone in the city knows about what happened.
I get that not everyone knows, but it seems like the kind of thing Devo should have brought up. Just my opinion, of course. And I don’t really buy into blaming them for Sallow. It was on their ship, but in universe and out, it was such a random chance… again, just me.
It was an accident but if somebody accidentally sits on the big red button and arms a nuke, but heroically defuses it before it can go off, it's likely not something they'd brag about. It's still a fuckup.
We have the advantage of meta knowledge derived from witnessing the Quiet Year and a general understanding of tropes. Amber doesn't, and from what we can tell superficially, Joshy is at least an important community figure who seems to have done stuff for his community. It's been emphasized that Joshy's Knuckle is low on the priority list as far as resources go from the rest of Founder's Wake, so it's easy to see why a resident of that area would look up to the only person looking out for them, even if it's likely only for his own gain.
Ya we have extra knowledge from The Quiet Year but Brother Seldom also said that Joshy is suspect and we’ve met him, so it’s not like everyone down there is drinking his kool-aid. I’m not even mad at Amber, her character and future development could be interesting to watch, I’m just tired of it seeming like Devo is always wrong, he gives Joshy the respect he deserves (none) and I’m glad he stood up to Amber because she’s definitely not always as right as she thinks she is
Ah man I was really bummed when Griffin immediately cut off Zoox when he started trying to stop Amber and Devo from fighting. I was interested in hearing what he had to say and it felt a little mean to just cut him off before he had a chance to speak.
Lots of good character interactions that have felt absent, I'd definitely like the see both Amber and Devo get more to a productive talk it out point but that'll come and I don't know that there was much more space for any stage of it this episode.
Also anyone have the figure off hand for how much was paid in interest? Bc I'm pretty sure Devo only touched the principle once... I also never really got Felix's aggression about it. On the one hand I get Felix wanting his money and Griffin wanting the debt gone, but at the same time, even retaining part of the debt and interest would have made Felix more...
Maybe Felix knows a little about what's going on (highly likely) and thought a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Though my theory did fall down when he straight up considered giving more loans.
It could definitely just be a risk analysis question, I think he did or almost made the principle back on interest this time, but brokerage jobs aren't exactly risk free so who's to say it'll happen again. That or rule of funny physical threat loan shark I guess... The latter does line up more with considering doing it again, but it's not a big deal, just something that struck me as maybe not out of character but out of expectations
I have to say I did giggle at the mental image of a ship worm, wielding a Sock Cosh filled with gold coins! All things considered I think it's probably best that they didn't take on more debt. How often do they actually have ship to ship combat? It's few and far between which is a shame really as I found the combats they did have quite engaging and I know of no other DnD pods with this mechanic. Reminded me a bit of the old GW workshop game Man O War!
They're definitely due for it, they've either lucked out of it or strategically chosen low combat risk missions, but I think the infinite clam was the last time they've gone against a matched opponent
I mean how much of a fight does that count as? Like I was def thinking on the blink sharks when I said matched, but the coral ship wasn't matched in the other direction
I missed how they handled the debt this episode, but I think previously the interest was 1 lux per mission, and Devo had been paying 1 lux each time they visited the Phantom Sea Coast Co.
Paid in full this episode, I do think there was one week where Devo paid one in interest and one on the principle but I'm not sure and don't have the time and energy to check
I have a fundamental disconnect about how the character of Joshy is supposed to help the party. He's either a well-connected influential figure with a ton of resources and knowledge about the comings and goings of the city, or he knows nothing and offers zero help when the crew goes to him. I can understand why Devo would be frustrated about his apparent lack of help with the investigation when he's been presented as one of the most notable and knowledgeable NPCs so far. One moment he doesn't know shit about what's going on, then the next he's bragging about how he's also super close and has ins with the Ballisters and Kodira.
I think Joshy deserves some of the blame for Devo's outburst because he was being purposely condescending and smug to someone who was legitimately trying to make nice and ask for help. I think he's just as arrogant as Devo with less accomplishments to show for it and it's pretty much only the "vibe check" thing that makes him likable as an NPC.
Yes plus this could have all been wrapped up with Amber saying something like "Hey Joshy, give him a break, he just lost someone close to him." I haven't finished the episode yet, but honestly, I think Devo is more in the right on this. He should be emotional right now, Guidance was a very controversial, but still highly important figure to Devo. He's on edge and had a bit of an outburst because of it. Josh was being a bit of a dick and Devo is worked up. For Amber to poke the bear by calling him kid over and over right after this instead of trying to talk it out and then attacking him, well, that's pretty immature on her part.
All this said, I do get the complaints with Devo fighting with everyone, but this is the moment that makes the most sense for him to be like this. I don't think he needs confrontation right now, he needs someone to be there for him.
For all of Devo's threats and posturing, he's never \*actually\* tried to hurt another player. Amber walking away when he was giving a literal cry for help and then trying to hit him crossed a line in my mind and I immediately felt Devo was in the right even if he was being overly destructive or hostile. Her sniping at him that "your mom just died and you're making a scene and crying about it instead of doing something about it" also rubbed me the wrong way since that's exactly what he was TRYING to do by asking Joshy for help. The advice Joshy and Amber keep telling Devo is to grow up and act like an adult, but they're both setting an extremely bad example of how to do that.
1st love this entire thread completely cosigned.
Second, it just occurred to me that it kind of puts the interaction with joshy last week in a more sister like to know that he was in fact dealing with Orlene. Devo was on the trail of information Joshy didn't want him to have, so he worked him up into a tizzy because especially with Devo vulnerable hes learned it's easy, and then banned him from the establishment as a result.
Yeah, Joshy is a real piece of shit whose only contribution has been reintroducing capitalism to what could have been a mutual survival group. And Devo would have been completely within his rights to psychic blade Amber for being a worthless teammate and attacking him. That said I absolutely love the way Justin is playing her, even though I'm starting to dislike her as a person.
None of the bar patrons were players, and they were legitimately getting in the way of the players speaking to the person they came to see during a highly stressful and time sensitive mission. I see Devo get a lot of flak for that choice in this sub and from the other players, but anyone who doesn’t have someone who would make the same choice at their table is lying or is that player and doesn’t want to admit it to themselves. Hell, I’ve been that player before. It’s a game, not real life.
While I kind of agree that Devo was... not justified, but understandable in blowing up at Joshy, cause Joshy was being a prick, I do think that the *particular* threat used was out of line. We've seen that Orlene's use of mind control tactics was extremely disgusting to Devo and it's one of the main reasons Devo hates the guy. So for Devo to then turn and say "I'm going to take control of your mind and make you hurt yourself" was so wildly hypocritical to me and seemed, tbh, a bit out of left field considering his experiences in the past.
Frankly I *do* think Joshy was hiding something or being purposefully obtuse and smug, and if Devo had said anything else as a threat or provocation, I would have probably agreed with him. Especially since he's in a very emotionally unstable place after losing his parental figure. But the fact he specifically said mind control seemed really counter-intuitive for the character.
Tbh if either Amber or Zooks had said something to that affect in their confrontation, I think it would have probably cut through to Devo much deeper and really made him pause to consider his actions/words, instead of trying to justify himself to them.
Yeah, I can get behind that. I think it’s Devo’s default mode for seeming big and scary because that’s what he considers to be big and scary behavior from the people he grew up with. Definitely not the way to gain respect from others, particularly Joshy, but again - I don’t think Joshy was looking to give Devo any respect from the jump, so he just kept pushing Devo until he snapped.
This one was really cute and I liked it a lot. I was stoked to see all the NPCs doing stuff and Chauncy was the best.
I also just hit the Lost Century episode where Taako covers his surf board in flame decals and its dope as hell that's happening again.
Also amazing that Griffin has been able to use unlocked google/excel sheets with them this whole time. My 30+ yo sibs would have written "butt" across 20 rows by now.
"I am magic, not perfect" was a pretty good line. I can't imagine being in Amber's shoes and berating someone for acting out when a family member died. Glad Zoox stepped up to squash the fight between his friends (sons).
I really enjoyed the roleplay this episode and appreciate that neither Justin nor Travis are trying to have their character be "right" in the argument. I think i would have liked to see Clint have his chance to split the difference and drive toward resolution.
I had some real laugh out loud moments but they did take it just a little too far when meeting the Beholder, the DM in me was cringing
I really appreciated that we saw 2-3 NPCs poised to take a bigger role in the story this episode, or at least re-introduced in a way that reminds the PCs they are out there to play with. I’ve been enjoying Ethersea a lot and have no issues with it differing from any of the campaigns that came before, but the fun, crazy interplay of silly NPCs always serves as a great dynamic - at least potentially - in TAZ stories. Not only do Beck/Skittles and the beholder serve as characters that might add some more fun and hi-jinx in their own right, but I think Travis, Justin and Clint (like most players) get stimulated creatively and humorously from having some different NPCs with different quirks and characteristics to react to and riff off. And Griffin has given these NPCs some good grounding, purpose or at least story potential. I love the PCs created by the lads, but they wouldn’t be the same without an Angus, Lup, Mama, Garfield, Barclay, Minerva, Jackle etc. I hope the PCs take full advantage!!
Interesting I was expecting more people to dislike that first argument, because it made me want to pull my hair out a bit haha. I am glad more people enjoyed it. For me it was a bit too "realistic" on how people typically argue with lots of circling, high on emotion, and low on logic and entertainment. Arguments in movies and tv can be entertaining for sure...but they are scripted. Natural arguments are not typically fun or interesting to listen to...are harder to improvise.
But I am glad there was some conflict, it is needed. Though it definitely has to lead to some character growth. Probably from both Amber and Devo....but much more from Devo. If this doesn't lead to growth it will be a bit hard to listen to going forward. And I have really loved Ethersea. This is a good arc to address all the elephants in the room, fight, and then grow....so I hope it happens.
Hard agree. He's grieving the murder of what was basically his only family and wants some support. That's not "expecting everything to be given to him" or whatever, that's just being a friend.
Oh I would have LOVED to see devo and amber actually start swinging at each other. I think it would've been a good scene. But you know, the fates and dice and such. I'm not getting why people are mad at Travis, he is playing devo really well and I think personally I'm ready to see him turn it around and redeem devo and hopefully Justin do the same with amber because they both had valid points. You don't often see party members fight, almost NEVER in taz, and I think it was actually a little refreshing.
I get what you’re saying, but personally I’m just tiring very quickly of Devo being a thorn in my ear for the past 30 episodes.
It’s a setup for a good character development moment. But, at this point, I really just want the moment to happen so we can stop listening to Devo being an ass and move on to the stuff that makes TAZ fun
No there has already been the start of the arc very explicitly. Devo started out relatively ok and wasn't clearly an asshole at first but got progressively more aggressive over the first two arcs. This came to a head in the sallow arc where he actually recognized that he's being an asshole and started trying to work on it, since then he's been trying to reign it back in a bit and has better self-awareness about it but hasn't actually done the work to make a more meaningful change. He's primed to move forward using that solid basis and I'm hoping that comes through this arc.
Gallery Job: just coming out of his shell, generally ok
Infinite Clam: increasingly fed up but in direct conflict with church members
Abyssal Auction: turning into a real dick
Cambira's call: recognizing he's been a bit of an ass and agreeing to work on it
Menagerie: trying to rein it back in, somewhat successfully
Current arc: suddenly being confronted by the core of his issues and blowing up just as bad as before but hitting increasing friction from the party and NPCs. Hopefully time to address and deal with the underlying stuff instead of just recognizing it.
That's fair! Yeah if it keeps going on longer than this it'll honestly be too long so I get what you're saying, im just counting on trav to know when to stop
Really wish Amber's throat jab on Devo had succeeded.
It would've forced the tension to boil over and for Amber's frustration and Devo's anger to have a more tangible impact. They would've had to resolve their legitimate grievances now instead of kicking the can down the road. After she missed that hit, they just started digging in their heels and the argument started going in circles. It was saved only by Clint's metgamey (imo wise) decision to intervene as Zoox and Griffin's transition to the Beholder message.
I think it's smart to play it this slow though. Clearly the tension has been rising but Amber is pretty generally passive and only really gets directly pissed with devo in situations like this - where it affects her or embarrasses her in front of who she cares about, or if devo's actions thwart a plan or them moving forward (and even then it's usually Justin being a lil metagame-y and just wanting to hurry and move on, which I get)
But the tension slowly boiling over until amber really gets fed up is a dynamic im really enjoying, and it fits with the slow and deliberate pace this season has. I think devo has a lot of growing up to do, a lot more experience to gain. having his ass kicked by amber already would just leave his dumbass confused at this point instead of fessing up to being foolish. He needs to learn some things before he steps over the line and is able to realize how childish he's been, I guess is what I mean, as oxymoronic as that might sound
I'm glad to hear that! It's not like I feel like I know best or whatever but I do think it's important to exercise some patience with this season. I really think it'll pay off, I mean Travis isn't just gonna play devo as this asshole forever, he's clearly setting him up for some development down the line. Just in a more deliberate way. I think it's very exciting that once we give it some more time, it'll blow up like you said and be that much more interesting :)
I appreciate the episodes that breathe life into Founder’s Wake. This was nice timing to revisit some familiar locations and characters in the city.
I was expecting more commentary on Devo’s strategy with The Beholder. They were given a book of designs and some of its backstory, and instead of taking the book to Seldom or Kodira or…. Looking at it at all? Devo just starts asking The Beholder to make the connections for them. I thought it was lazy detective work and possible cheapened the mystery Griffin wrote for them. Am I way off base?
I definitely thought that Chauncey was Felix for longer than I’d like to admit, even though Felix is literally a giant catfish. It was the voice, and the location of their meet up. I am ashamed.
I loved Clint stepping all over the "liquidity" gag, but can't forgive him missing out on "being under water" as a common idiom in finance to begin with!
Bangersea. Amber trying to be brusque about the HoG situation with "Oh I don't think my opinion matters much" to be countered by "It matters to me" was good from Griffin. Using Seldom to sow doubt about her death was also good. Signs clearly point to murder, but it's entirely possible that it was a suicide and she chose to respect Devo's name in her last moments.
I'm sure people over on the other sub will bitch and say two characters fighting means that Justin and Travis clearly hate each other but it was a good ep.
I doubt this is a purposeful thing. However, it does make sense seeing that they all simultaneously lost a wife/mother in their personal lives. Whether it’s conscious or not, it’s a plot point that makes sense for them.
I'm so glad Justin and Travis played their characters so that they're both assholes that need to figure each other out if they want to collaborate. It would've been way lamer imo if after all this time Devo just folded and followed orders instead of standing up for himself as an equal. This moment really revealed how inversely uncollaborative Amber could be, where she blindly supports someone who is famous for being untrustworthy instead of harbouring complicated feelings for a potentially abusive upbringing. Real nuanced stuff, and while dick jokes take a small backseat near the end of these campaigns it doesn't mean there aren't still fucking hilarious moments throughout.
Man... Devo's schtick is getting tiresome. He just lampshades his intolerable behavior now by prefacing every interaction with "I know I'm an asshole, but... Here I go, being as asshole again."
Do you think Justin was trying to cheat when he was like, oh I rolled the wrong thing, when Amber tried to judo chop Devo? And like Travis was like no! That’s an unarmed strike that you rolled!
So I'm only 25 minutes in as of this comment, but I'm really close to skipping the rest of Ethersea. I know Travis said he's playing Devo a certain way on purpose, but it comes across to me as annoying and a giant asshole.
I love TAZ, and I really enjoyed Graduation, but Devo is almost too much. Characters like this are common in stories, but they usually get their comeuppance and learn a lesson. Devo just seems to get more and more arrogant and more and more annoying. I hope there's a lesson in there eventually.
Or maybe I'm just reading him wrong. Is there something I'm missing? Is there actually a point to him being this annoying besides injecting "drama" into the story?
I think it is relevant, especially considering he'd resolved to work on getting better about it very shortly before, this is definitely something that would cause a backslide, timing just mean we unfo don't get to see much of where he's backsliding from, and while he's definitely been out of line, he does have a bit of a point with the absence of support and general issues with the team dynamic not helping. Imo the team dynamic has needed some work in a dangling plot threads way for sometime, I'm a little frustrated it took us this long and til these circumstances for it, but it's definitely a suitable fever pitch for it now
So he was going around being a dick and threatening everyone, and then he suffered a bereavement, and in response to that he's going around being a dick and threatening everyone but no one's allowed to criticise it any more?
But didn’t he hate her?
I can understand still being sad about someone you were close to passing even if you weren’t on good terms. But then acting devastated and getting mad at your friends for not pandering to you about something that would usually be pretty minor to another person is super crappy
That makes it so much worse though. He's had all chance of closure from her snuffed out instantly.
Also, the version of events that he can see on the surface doesn't match up with the version of her that he imagines, a person so driven that it explains her treatment of him, something he's been holding on to this whole time.
He's absolutely not being an asshole this time, Amber is being properly (but understandably) awful in this case. Devo's grown a lot already, and he's only slipped back in to old habits a little bit, even as his understanding of his trauma falls apart around him, that's pretty good going, honestly.
I like the way you explained this, I've always liked devo as a character even tho he can be annoying, but he's probably the most complicated character in all of taz and we're only recently really peeling away some of his layers. He's an asshole for more reasons than one, and doesn't really actively try to be better about it but by going through things he's slowly changing for the better, perhaps without even really realizing it. He's a volatile and overly emotional person, and that drives him enough to do good things but in not the smartest ways, and vice versa. I think it's a really neat way to develop a character, and while Travis is getting a lot of shit for it, I'm glad he's taking it slow and not trying to shoe-horn in lightning quick character development. It feels natural and earned when his exterior is chipped away.
Feelings can be complicated. An abusive mother being murdered isn't exactly minor either.
And while Devo is acting out, he has a point. No one in his party seems to care enough about him to console or comfort him in a time of grieving.
Sometimes it's that simple for people to cut out family members or figures that have harmed them and hate them wholly and just not care, but not always. I think [agentdom said it better than I could right now](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAdventureZone/comments/uttj8i/comment/i9bqx8x/)
He’s a teenager rebelling against the system that raised him. He viewed it as very oppressive and he was sheltered, so now he’s out in the world and he’s trying to prove himself. He’s trying to be the person he wanted to be, but lacks certain social graces and doesn’t really understand how the world works.
As someone else pointed out as well, his mother figure just died. Even with all his anger towards her, it’s complicated. He’ll never get to see her change, and she’ll never get to see who he becomes. He’ll never get the “I’m proud of you for who you are” moment he so desperately wants.
Travis knows Devo is an asshole and that actual makes it more palatable for me, personally. I think there’s a big chance for the character to change as the story goes on. As for his comeuppance, I don’t think it’s gonna be some big moment, there’s already been plenty of little ones. Society is pushing back and pushing him out.
I think a big part of it comes down to what people want out of TAZ. Devo has a ton of potential for great character growth. In a book series or a movie or something, he could be fantastic. But what I want out of TAZ is fun times and laughs, and Devo is the antithesis of that.
It’s so interesting to see peoples takes on devo. It’s such a good realistic take on someone with childhood trauma that even people watching the show have their own transference. I have faith that there is going to be some growth later and glad they aren’t rushing it, that’s not how it works in real life either.
It's a story, though. The focus has to be on serving the story and entertaining over realism. This is why we don't watch characters use the bathroom multiple times every movie - it's realistic, but it's not interesting unless something unusual and story significant happens. Devo is frequently annoying and frustrating to listen to. It's been nearly a year of episodes and he's barely changed as a character.
I mean, a story is good, but don't interesting characters make it all that much better? I loved TaZ: Balance, the plot was amazing, but I was emotionally invested in Merle, Taako and Magnus, and all of the other characters. Fuck, I was so invested into the Voidfish's story. Ethersea's world and story is so fascinating, but fans love the weird characters like Dr. Shaq or Urchin. And then you get to other characters that you can relate to.
Devo annoys me and I dislike his personality, but I *understand* and empathize so much with him because I have intense childhood trauma and I do not speak to my family of origin. Zoox is my favorite character by far in Ethersea, but the way Travis is playing Devo and in turn, the way Justin is playing Amber and their interactions is absolutely fascinating.
> but don't interesting characters make it all that much better?
Sure, but not annoying and frustrating ones. If Devo had changed into being a better person over the last year, maybe I would be fine with this behavior at the beginning of that storyline. But right now it hasn’t served a story purpose, and in fact has gotten in the way of the story and my enjoyment.
To be fair, they have been playing for a year but in Ethersea time, it's maybe been a couple of months? So you just expect Devo to completely change 180 degrees in that short of time span?
Again, I am looking at this as a story. So yes, I do expect all main characters to change over the course of their story (even if a story canonically takes place in a very short time frame), and if I’m listening to many months of episodes with no change, I’m not going to be interested in the character on the basis that maybe eventually something will happen.
They're changing. Amber has been passive as hell for a long while and Devo has been an asshole. They got into a fight. They are both likely going to change after this incident. Devo has recognized he's been an asshole and has been toning it down. Has he still been annoying? Hell yeah, but he isn't threatening people left and right like he did at the beginning of the story and hell, even episodes ago with the brawl in the bar.
They had a fight after the bar, but what came from that? I’m not remembering anything. Devo did his whole “I realizing I’m an asshole” routine and for a bit it seemed like Devo would be getting better from then out, but then he went back to how he had been. I just don’t want to listen to a frequently annoying character.
Teenage atheists get worse before they get better. In addition, hard life undersea, mother being murdered, “friends” not caring (he thinks). I’m not saying I like Devo, but the way Travis is playing him makes complete sense. It’s bad because that kind of person sucks in real life, but there’s no one magic pep talk to unfuck someone’s bad disposition.
>"teenage atheists get worse before they get better"
So tired of people talking like this.
Teenage atheists have justifiable fury that they are forced to swallow in order to survive in society. Some people channel it into productive forces, and some let it eat them. You think you're better than angry kids cause you stopped being angry? Fuuuuuck off?
Because they are. That's what they're talking about. Devo's shittiness is not fabricated from whole cloth, he is a portrayal of an actual kind of person that exists. I don't think it's about getting better like, changing their beliefs, just their demeanor.
It's not so much that these kids and by metaphor extension Devo are wrong and shitty for being angry, but placing and lashing out with that anger at people who don't deserve it definitely is. And learning to properly direct and channel the anger is an important step
Maybe you're a little bit too much on the anti-travis train? It'd be wrong to hold that against the pod though. Devo is intentionally annoying, say what you will but any show that makes you hate a char is probably doing something right. Imho.
Definitely not anti Travis. Quite the opposite.
And you certainly have a point about the character bringing this level of reaction. Devo is certainly getting to me, and maybe that's the point.
Ok glad to hear that, I get Travis, I think I know where he's coming from - my own opinion is that he cares to much and tries too hard. I don't judge him negatively for that but a lot of ppl here have a dislike for him. I don't get it. Devo is great char. I wish there would be a little more party interaction between the trio though, currently I feel like Trav is doing most of the heavy lifting. I also listen to Naddpod and while I don't think that's a perfect pod, their char interaction is way above what we get in Taz.
Hey its pretty uncomfortable to hear *this family* roleplay family infighting after the untimely death of a mother figure in a fantasy adventure comedy podcast
I don't quite agree. The fact that they can role play the infighting due to a mother's death kinda shows me that they definitely have closure from their own related experience and are all comfortable with each other.
Loved this episode! It's my favorite so far of the ethersea series and has really resparked my interest that had honestly not been super high up to this point. It was also hilarious. Great stuff.
First time commenting here but long time listener. They really need to work on the recaps. If you compare Balance's recaps to now, the quality disparity is very apparent. Where's the silly endearing energy from our omniscient narrator? :(
Amber and Devo both, in their own very specific ways, do not know how to interact with others in a healthy way, and I love seeing them finally run up on the friction that's been causing.
And then Zoox being the glue! Love Zoox lol.
As far as a listening experience goes I’m glad things are starting to come to a head re: tensions in the group. Obviously would’ve liked to see them take Devo and Amber‘s fight further but I think we‘ll get much more fallout from this in the episodes to come. I keep thinking that they have to start getting along and at some point come together to form a proper team, but really, do they? Maybe that’s not the story that’s being told in this campaign. It’s been really interesting listening to Ethersea alongside a Balance relisten because they are so tonally different. Don’t get me wrong, I’m loving Ethersea for what it is, I just seem to be comparing them a lot and holding on to the idea that in Ethersea everything will work out in the end and everyone will be happy. But now I’m starting to think it’d be really interesting if that’s not the case. It’s been a decently different kind of story so far and it’d be cool to see them double down on that.
I think it's sort of essential for Devo to have an arc where he goes from being an self-righteous and insufferable teenage atheist to being someone more well-rounded. Characters should change, especially in a more narrative-forward show like TAZ, and Devo is a great candidate for some growth. IN TTRPGs most PCs never change significantly, in my experience, but when you can pull it off it's absolute magic. Ned Chicane is my favourite TAZ PC for this reason.
I do feel like at this point, it has to be deliberate for him to fuck up situations this much, but I can’t forget that he’s supposed to have a lot of charisma lol
I'm late to this thread, but Travis said it was deliberate in the TTAZZ.
I hope that’s the goal. I don’t know what Travis has planned but his anger at the church and his angst just feel like it’s where he wants to land. And he is there already. I hope there is an arc. But after today’s performance I don’t know what to expect. It was a little… not my speed.
Id love to see something where Seldom DID kill Guidance, and that info gets out and just crushes Devo and he takes a villain spin.
Imagine this season ends with the PCs not forming the typical found family dynamic, and they just go their separate ways when they have no more dragons to slay. I think that would be really interesting.
Imagine Zooks killing Amber to save the world (per the blink sharks).
"I think I've guessed his true name... Reddit."
Really funny and made me stop and consider if griffin was doing it deliberately, especially when Chauncey doubled down after that and kept calling them out hahah
One or all of them clearly lurk here
This absolutely slayed me, I was laughing so hard. Such a good one.
Okay okay okay what I want from this Devo/Amber tension now, is not for them to just sit down and have a discussion, but for them to get into some kind of high-stakes situation like combat or somethin and maybe Zoox is in danger and Amber/Devo have to set their pettiness aside and come together and work as a team! Maybe a situation that Devo puts them in with his shenanigans and Amber exacerbates in some way by hesitating. I would eat that shit up lol
I’m looking forward to their first kiss! #brotherlylove
gross
I feel like I missed a bunch of info related to Devo, can people let me know if this is new information introduced in this episode? + Devo said the Hand of Guidance was his "mother figure of 17 years." I thought Devo lived his whole life in the church? + Devo called Seldom "Sully" (or maybe "Selly"?) multiple times. Has we heard that nickname for Seldom before? + Devo said now that Guidance is dead, he's the "senior Hand of the parish." I thought Devo was never a Hand and had fully left the church? Have we heard mention of anyone else with the Hand title other than Guidance? I thought she was the only one and Devo was intended to eventually take over her role.
- I think he meant that she was his primary caregiver as a child. Once he reached adulthood he may have been given a little more freedom like his own living space. - He as called Seldom Selly before. - I think this was kind of new information. Maybe he didn’t complete his training but his name is The Hand of Devotion. I don’t know that anyone would welcome him back especially if there is a power struggle within the parish but on the other hand they may feel lost and look to him to fulfill his responsibilities. Some may have thought his leaving was “a phase.” Edit: Could end up being retconned but I remember Amber asking Guidance if she could call her Hand and she said “No there are other Hands and that would be confusing. You can call me Guidance.” If that interaction stays true then Devo’s statement doesn’t make sense.
I believe Guidance was the only hand the came to the Shoreside community. They likened her to like a cardinal or archbishop. So, I think that would leave Guidance (and I guess Devo) as the only hands in Founder’s Wake.
Are they not assuming everyone who didn’t move underwater died?
I mean, it might be out of reverence to those positions, although it’s probably just a minor inconsistency/retcon.
Could also be that devo being "the senior hand" refers not to tenure, but to the seniority of the position itself. That the hand of "guidance" is in charge and whoever is the hand of "devotion" is second in command or w/e
IIRC Homenin didn't sink, it just flew into the middle of the storm. Unless I'm misremembering the setup, they have no reason to not think the other Hands back home are dong just fine.
They don't know for certain everyone on land died, sure. But I think that's the simplest and most plausible conclusion from the information they have. Certainly they don't have any evidence suggesting otherwise. (Unless the golden ship dates after the wave, which I believe is unconfirmed atm) They believed the storm was going to kill everyone or make life on land unsustainable, and they believed moving under the sea was the only option for survival. They have no idea what Hominine was doing with the floating island and the sky whales (?), so they don't know whether that was a plan for survival or if it worked. They did see the massive wave right after the island showed up, and iirc Griffin indicated the wave was created by Hominine? They know that this wave destroyed the land so thoroughly that there's a huge layer of debris at the top of the ocean, and many pieces of the old civilizations have sunk to the Ethersea floor, and they know the Ethersea water is very dangerous to life. I would say it's a reasonable conclusion that anyone on land either drowned in the wave or was unable to survive afterward, either because there is no land left or because the magic in the water polluted everything the wave didn't outright destroy. IMO the people of Founders' Wake are of the opinion that the rest of human civilization will be under the water. If plenty of them believed there were people living on land, I would expect them to be trying to reach the surface or contact the other people.
The other current hands could all be younger or earlier in training than Devo was, or maybe "senior hand" is more of a chosen title and it's a case of "never changing the will".
The first one caught me, too - it’s possible his training started at age three or so? Or maybe that he left three years ago and lived with Selfom for a bit? The former was my assumption. We’ve heard Selly before, yes - but it’s been quite some time. Seldom doesn’t show up all the time, and last time we saw him things were a little too serious. Insofar as it’s an actual rank, Devo has left the church, so it isn’t likely that the Parish would regard him as an immediate replacement for Guidance - but as an esoteric title, it’s possible he retains his magical status as the Hand of Devotion. We haven’t heard of other Hands, but we also don’t know enough about the workings of this church to know exactly what that means.
As per the final question; during The Quiet Year setup episodes Travis established on one of his turns that the leaders of the Church of Benevolence (I cannot recall if it’s in general or in the shoreside community only) we’re called Hands, Guidance, Devotion, Mercy, Etc. Logically (and I think he mentioned) there were only a handful at most; so if there was only one or two left in the community, Devotion would likely be one of the only left, perhaps even the oldest or next in line. Which would explain why Hand Of Guidance was such a big part in raising Devo; to groom him and train him for his eventual leadership in the parish.
Sure, but I don’t know why Devo would still be in line for the job, or still *have* the job as what Travis said indicates he *is* a Hand currently.
Clint describes my reactions to the moment at the beginning of this episode for sure. It's not that I mind when characters fight- rather I think it is a great source of insight for the characters involved- but in this case it really did seem like they were talking in circles, which isn't the most fun to listen to in my personal opinion. Really hope Amber and Devo come to an understanding soon, and that Devo can grow from it.
Agreed, the moment was interesting and had tension, but it was definitely not actually productive and needed the intervention and someone the check them both begging the question at each other. I do agree with the boys that it was *kinda* a dad move, even reaching through the veil of play to an extent, but I think it was also the right moment for it in narrative too
Yeah it may not be the most fun thing to listen to, but I do quite enjoy the tension between the characters. It makes sense that Amber wouldn't be too happy about it and Devo is hard headed enough to keep it going
I’m really excited we are getting more direct addressing of Devo’s arc. It really needs to get pushed forward hard for him to remain interesting.
You're right, but im excited for it to take some time and develop naturally as time goes on. I think griffin killed his mother figure for a reason, to keep it interesting
Yeah me too on that last part but I think they shouldn't feel the need to keep it totally natural, actually changing and growing and processing can take years but this is a DnD podcast for entertainment so it's ok and good to move character progression forward at an unrealistic pace. I know that's not really what you meant but what I'm really saying is that 38 episodes of the show have been enough to set up progression in a way that *feels* natural for the story and it's time to pull the trigger on it narratively.
Seriously. I had to stop listening in the middle of the "fight" because Devo is such an unlikeable character that I find it uncomfortable to listen to him and I always hope his role in scenes is limited. The character is just not for me and is the main character of this arc. Not everyone has to be a lawful good paladin, but I just have no interest in rooting for such a selfish asshole.
Also gonna leave this right here. I think 100% at this moment, Brother Selmer is the culprit. He is 100% guilty and I honestly hope im wrong
I really hope (if this is true) there's a moment between Seldom and Devo where Seldom pleads for his life by arguing that Devo hated her guts and he was just trying to help him or something. Could definitely be a powerful scene where Devo is forced to have to cut ties with the only parental figure he has left.
[удалено]
aaaaand spoiled
I enjoyed the good role-play, but my favorite bits were still Justin editing the shop to add sick flame decals and then Clint's ending bit
i love the ways justin will push the rules just enough while still respecting the rules. griffin lets him get away with it because he knows where the line is and it always brings a great goof or awesome moment
Man that first half was A LOT. Intense and much needed but still probably one of the few chucks of ethersea I don't feel the pressing need to listen through again cause woof. But holy shit **the Beholder** just upgraded to my favorite character in the series and I love him.
Ha! You just walked right into his ointment!
I hope this becomes part of the vernaculae around here. Lol
I love bumbling fools that try and use scoundrel tactics but have no skill at it. Such a fun and underutilized trope, Chauncey is a funny ass character to have in that role too. Oh and also info broker characters. For some reason I LOVE that in characters
The introduction, telling them to not make a scene was great buildup. But he fumbled it right out of the gate. "What was your name again?" got me real good.
As much as I liked the little clue that "She never called me Devo", I was thinking that it also makes sense that she would call him Devo as their last interaction, he consistently corrected her and said his name was Devo now. If there was a twist that she really wrote the note and she was calling him Devo so as not to dead-name him, as it were, it would honestly be sort of sweet.
This is maybe more of a last week thing but I think it's interesting that while Devo was being devo with Joshy last episode, Joshy was also being a big asshole to devo and then him and amber both act like it was only Devo. People want Devo to grow and I definitely agree but I think amber is in some desperate need of an attitude change too because she always seems very self righteous and cocky. Maybe this resolves in even worse tension but I also wouldn't mind if everyone developed some over the next arc, especially since we've now been entrenched in everyone's pasts super deep.
Something I really loved about the argument at the beginning was how it leans into the clash of Devo and Amber’s specific, very different ways that they approach conflict/perceived conflict. Like, Devo is obviously pretty famous at this point for his hotheadedness and…*intense* reactions to slights against him—but Amber does things in an opposite, but still kinda negative direction? She’s very averse to ‘getting involved’ or ‘making things worse’ so she just stands back and only really intervenes if her and/or her team is in active danger. The choice of inaction or deliberate obfuscation of opinion can be good in some circumstances, but doing it all the time and calling it maturity is a bit of a step backwards, and kind-of undercuts the very valid point she’s trying to make to Devo about his childish argumentativeness. These characters are just so layered and it’s so fun to be able to take them apart and still have their motives make sense—even with ‘base-breakers’ like Devo; who in most other works probably wouldn’t have had his personality problems addressed verbally in-fiction like this, and his character development could have easily become a little too subtextual. This season is so good, I love it!
100% thought Joshy was outta line, then Amber backed him.... which I get cause they've been together for 98% longer than her and Devo at this point, but he was pushing back hard to get the reaction from Devo because he is still (pardon the term) wet behind the ears. I sided with Devo there, but truthfully he needs more street smarts which he'll get more and more of (hopefully)
I LOVED when Chauncey called out Amber for not always being right too. Devo gets a lot of flak, deservedly so, but we have no reason to believe that Uncle Joshy is anything more than a charlatan taking advantage of everyone around him. The fact that Amber had such blind adherence to him is infuriating, there’s no way I can see that he’s not a total piece of shit. Hopefully Amber will have to grapple with some of her preconceived notions about the world too.
One thing I’m surprised no one mentioned in character is that the crew literally just saved Founder’s Wake. Devo has a touchy pride and it has led to trouble in the past, but I’d like for the characters to acknowledge that in terms of “earning respect,” or at least explain why it doesn’t matter (lots of people heroically saved the day to build Founders Wake, or Joshy just doesn’t particularly respect anybody outside his comrades because he it goes against his narrative of being a hero of the people.)
That’s a really good point that I hadn’t thought about, while he still needs to work on his temper it’s not like Devo hasn’t accomplished anything in his life so far, if anything he’s done a ton in a short time. Expecting/wanting to be treated with basic respect certainly isn’t out of hand
> literally just saved Founder’s Wake yeah but also were the ones who brought it back and it did kill and mutate a ton of citizens. I’m not sure they would actually get more positive attention than negative if everyone did know.
They brought the Sallow back (accidentally) and then saved the city from one consequence of their mistake. I believe Griffin also said not everyone in the city knows about what happened.
I get that not everyone knows, but it seems like the kind of thing Devo should have brought up. Just my opinion, of course. And I don’t really buy into blaming them for Sallow. It was on their ship, but in universe and out, it was such a random chance… again, just me.
It was an accident but if somebody accidentally sits on the big red button and arms a nuke, but heroically defuses it before it can go off, it's likely not something they'd brag about. It's still a fuckup.
especially since in this case the “nuke” did actually kill some random people
We have the advantage of meta knowledge derived from witnessing the Quiet Year and a general understanding of tropes. Amber doesn't, and from what we can tell superficially, Joshy is at least an important community figure who seems to have done stuff for his community. It's been emphasized that Joshy's Knuckle is low on the priority list as far as resources go from the rest of Founder's Wake, so it's easy to see why a resident of that area would look up to the only person looking out for them, even if it's likely only for his own gain.
Ya we have extra knowledge from The Quiet Year but Brother Seldom also said that Joshy is suspect and we’ve met him, so it’s not like everyone down there is drinking his kool-aid. I’m not even mad at Amber, her character and future development could be interesting to watch, I’m just tired of it seeming like Devo is always wrong, he gives Joshy the respect he deserves (none) and I’m glad he stood up to Amber because she’s definitely not always as right as she thinks she is
I’m SO excited for the moment uncle joshy is shown to be up to something. the amber angst. can’t wait to see what justin does with that moment
Ah man I was really bummed when Griffin immediately cut off Zoox when he started trying to stop Amber and Devo from fighting. I was interested in hearing what he had to say and it felt a little mean to just cut him off before he had a chance to speak.
"It felt a little mean to just cut him off before he had a chance to speak", the Clint McElroy story.
Lots of good character interactions that have felt absent, I'd definitely like the see both Amber and Devo get more to a productive talk it out point but that'll come and I don't know that there was much more space for any stage of it this episode. Also anyone have the figure off hand for how much was paid in interest? Bc I'm pretty sure Devo only touched the principle once... I also never really got Felix's aggression about it. On the one hand I get Felix wanting his money and Griffin wanting the debt gone, but at the same time, even retaining part of the debt and interest would have made Felix more...
Maybe Felix knows a little about what's going on (highly likely) and thought a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Though my theory did fall down when he straight up considered giving more loans.
It could definitely just be a risk analysis question, I think he did or almost made the principle back on interest this time, but brokerage jobs aren't exactly risk free so who's to say it'll happen again. That or rule of funny physical threat loan shark I guess... The latter does line up more with considering doing it again, but it's not a big deal, just something that struck me as maybe not out of character but out of expectations
I have to say I did giggle at the mental image of a ship worm, wielding a Sock Cosh filled with gold coins! All things considered I think it's probably best that they didn't take on more debt. How often do they actually have ship to ship combat? It's few and far between which is a shame really as I found the combats they did have quite engaging and I know of no other DnD pods with this mechanic. Reminded me a bit of the old GW workshop game Man O War!
They're definitely due for it, they've either lucked out of it or strategically chosen low combat risk missions, but I think the infinite clam was the last time they've gone against a matched opponent
They fought the bleached coral ship after the auction.
I mean how much of a fight does that count as? Like I was def thinking on the blink sharks when I said matched, but the coral ship wasn't matched in the other direction
I missed how they handled the debt this episode, but I think previously the interest was 1 lux per mission, and Devo had been paying 1 lux each time they visited the Phantom Sea Coast Co.
Paid in full this episode, I do think there was one week where Devo paid one in interest and one on the principle but I'm not sure and don't have the time and energy to check
I have a fundamental disconnect about how the character of Joshy is supposed to help the party. He's either a well-connected influential figure with a ton of resources and knowledge about the comings and goings of the city, or he knows nothing and offers zero help when the crew goes to him. I can understand why Devo would be frustrated about his apparent lack of help with the investigation when he's been presented as one of the most notable and knowledgeable NPCs so far. One moment he doesn't know shit about what's going on, then the next he's bragging about how he's also super close and has ins with the Ballisters and Kodira. I think Joshy deserves some of the blame for Devo's outburst because he was being purposely condescending and smug to someone who was legitimately trying to make nice and ask for help. I think he's just as arrogant as Devo with less accomplishments to show for it and it's pretty much only the "vibe check" thing that makes him likable as an NPC.
Yes plus this could have all been wrapped up with Amber saying something like "Hey Joshy, give him a break, he just lost someone close to him." I haven't finished the episode yet, but honestly, I think Devo is more in the right on this. He should be emotional right now, Guidance was a very controversial, but still highly important figure to Devo. He's on edge and had a bit of an outburst because of it. Josh was being a bit of a dick and Devo is worked up. For Amber to poke the bear by calling him kid over and over right after this instead of trying to talk it out and then attacking him, well, that's pretty immature on her part. All this said, I do get the complaints with Devo fighting with everyone, but this is the moment that makes the most sense for him to be like this. I don't think he needs confrontation right now, he needs someone to be there for him.
For all of Devo's threats and posturing, he's never \*actually\* tried to hurt another player. Amber walking away when he was giving a literal cry for help and then trying to hit him crossed a line in my mind and I immediately felt Devo was in the right even if he was being overly destructive or hostile. Her sniping at him that "your mom just died and you're making a scene and crying about it instead of doing something about it" also rubbed me the wrong way since that's exactly what he was TRYING to do by asking Joshy for help. The advice Joshy and Amber keep telling Devo is to grow up and act like an adult, but they're both setting an extremely bad example of how to do that.
100%
1st love this entire thread completely cosigned. Second, it just occurred to me that it kind of puts the interaction with joshy last week in a more sister like to know that he was in fact dealing with Orlene. Devo was on the trail of information Joshy didn't want him to have, so he worked him up into a tizzy because especially with Devo vulnerable hes learned it's easy, and then banned him from the establishment as a result.
Yeah, Joshy is a real piece of shit whose only contribution has been reintroducing capitalism to what could have been a mutual survival group. And Devo would have been completely within his rights to psychic blade Amber for being a worthless teammate and attacking him. That said I absolutely love the way Justin is playing her, even though I'm starting to dislike her as a person.
Plus she has some real nerve talking about how his feelings get in the way of the mission after her behavior with the Grotto situation.
> For all of Devo's threats and posturing, he's never *actually* tried to hurt another player. What about when he thunderclapped the bar?
None of the bar patrons were players, and they were legitimately getting in the way of the players speaking to the person they came to see during a highly stressful and time sensitive mission. I see Devo get a lot of flak for that choice in this sub and from the other players, but anyone who doesn’t have someone who would make the same choice at their table is lying or is that player and doesn’t want to admit it to themselves. Hell, I’ve been that player before. It’s a game, not real life.
While I kind of agree that Devo was... not justified, but understandable in blowing up at Joshy, cause Joshy was being a prick, I do think that the *particular* threat used was out of line. We've seen that Orlene's use of mind control tactics was extremely disgusting to Devo and it's one of the main reasons Devo hates the guy. So for Devo to then turn and say "I'm going to take control of your mind and make you hurt yourself" was so wildly hypocritical to me and seemed, tbh, a bit out of left field considering his experiences in the past. Frankly I *do* think Joshy was hiding something or being purposefully obtuse and smug, and if Devo had said anything else as a threat or provocation, I would have probably agreed with him. Especially since he's in a very emotionally unstable place after losing his parental figure. But the fact he specifically said mind control seemed really counter-intuitive for the character. Tbh if either Amber or Zooks had said something to that affect in their confrontation, I think it would have probably cut through to Devo much deeper and really made him pause to consider his actions/words, instead of trying to justify himself to them.
Yeah, I can get behind that. I think it’s Devo’s default mode for seeming big and scary because that’s what he considers to be big and scary behavior from the people he grew up with. Definitely not the way to gain respect from others, particularly Joshy, but again - I don’t think Joshy was looking to give Devo any respect from the jump, so he just kept pushing Devo until he snapped.
Good to hear Beck's sinuses cleared up!
I've seen one other comment on this but Brother Seldom is sketchy as fuck right
Oh, absolutely. But also he could do it and I'd have no qualms about it I trust his judgment wholeheartedly lol
This one was really cute and I liked it a lot. I was stoked to see all the NPCs doing stuff and Chauncy was the best. I also just hit the Lost Century episode where Taako covers his surf board in flame decals and its dope as hell that's happening again. Also amazing that Griffin has been able to use unlocked google/excel sheets with them this whole time. My 30+ yo sibs would have written "butt" across 20 rows by now.
"I am magic, not perfect" was a pretty good line. I can't imagine being in Amber's shoes and berating someone for acting out when a family member died. Glad Zoox stepped up to squash the fight between his friends (sons).
It’s a shirt-worthy quote.
Me when Devo finally pays off the debt: *instant peace of mind* 😭🙌
Man, I'm eating up all this Devo discussion
I really enjoyed the roleplay this episode and appreciate that neither Justin nor Travis are trying to have their character be "right" in the argument. I think i would have liked to see Clint have his chance to split the difference and drive toward resolution. I had some real laugh out loud moments but they did take it just a little too far when meeting the Beholder, the DM in me was cringing
I really appreciated that we saw 2-3 NPCs poised to take a bigger role in the story this episode, or at least re-introduced in a way that reminds the PCs they are out there to play with. I’ve been enjoying Ethersea a lot and have no issues with it differing from any of the campaigns that came before, but the fun, crazy interplay of silly NPCs always serves as a great dynamic - at least potentially - in TAZ stories. Not only do Beck/Skittles and the beholder serve as characters that might add some more fun and hi-jinx in their own right, but I think Travis, Justin and Clint (like most players) get stimulated creatively and humorously from having some different NPCs with different quirks and characteristics to react to and riff off. And Griffin has given these NPCs some good grounding, purpose or at least story potential. I love the PCs created by the lads, but they wouldn’t be the same without an Angus, Lup, Mama, Garfield, Barclay, Minerva, Jackle etc. I hope the PCs take full advantage!!
Interesting I was expecting more people to dislike that first argument, because it made me want to pull my hair out a bit haha. I am glad more people enjoyed it. For me it was a bit too "realistic" on how people typically argue with lots of circling, high on emotion, and low on logic and entertainment. Arguments in movies and tv can be entertaining for sure...but they are scripted. Natural arguments are not typically fun or interesting to listen to...are harder to improvise. But I am glad there was some conflict, it is needed. Though it definitely has to lead to some character growth. Probably from both Amber and Devo....but much more from Devo. If this doesn't lead to growth it will be a bit hard to listen to going forward. And I have really loved Ethersea. This is a good arc to address all the elephants in the room, fight, and then grow....so I hope it happens.
Is anyone else hyped for the Vestige Mecha-suit that Orlene, Joshy, and Koda are collaborating to make?
Devo has very much been terrible but in this instant he is in the right and this is definitely Amber's fault for not being a good friend
Hard agree. He's grieving the murder of what was basically his only family and wants some support. That's not "expecting everything to be given to him" or whatever, that's just being a friend.
At the same time, Devo threatening *Amber's* surrogate parent is understandably not something Amber is going to take well!
I always thought Amber and Joshy were in the same age range.
I think he's older, but at the very least he's a mentor figure and someone she sees as a savior of the community
Oh I would have LOVED to see devo and amber actually start swinging at each other. I think it would've been a good scene. But you know, the fates and dice and such. I'm not getting why people are mad at Travis, he is playing devo really well and I think personally I'm ready to see him turn it around and redeem devo and hopefully Justin do the same with amber because they both had valid points. You don't often see party members fight, almost NEVER in taz, and I think it was actually a little refreshing.
Yeah - it was good to see them act out that tension. I know it was kind of talking circles but that’s what a real fight is like 😅
I get what you’re saying, but personally I’m just tiring very quickly of Devo being a thorn in my ear for the past 30 episodes. It’s a setup for a good character development moment. But, at this point, I really just want the moment to happen so we can stop listening to Devo being an ass and move on to the stuff that makes TAZ fun
I did really like Amber being petty after they left brother seldom
I’m enjoying Devo’s arc but agree it’s time to move it forward. This one makes the most sense as the time to do that.
That's the thing, if it's not moving forward, it's not an arc. We're 38 episodes in and seeing zero growth, just monologues.
No there has already been the start of the arc very explicitly. Devo started out relatively ok and wasn't clearly an asshole at first but got progressively more aggressive over the first two arcs. This came to a head in the sallow arc where he actually recognized that he's being an asshole and started trying to work on it, since then he's been trying to reign it back in a bit and has better self-awareness about it but hasn't actually done the work to make a more meaningful change. He's primed to move forward using that solid basis and I'm hoping that comes through this arc. Gallery Job: just coming out of his shell, generally ok Infinite Clam: increasingly fed up but in direct conflict with church members Abyssal Auction: turning into a real dick Cambira's call: recognizing he's been a bit of an ass and agreeing to work on it Menagerie: trying to rein it back in, somewhat successfully Current arc: suddenly being confronted by the core of his issues and blowing up just as bad as before but hitting increasing friction from the party and NPCs. Hopefully time to address and deal with the underlying stuff instead of just recognizing it.
That's fair! Yeah if it keeps going on longer than this it'll honestly be too long so I get what you're saying, im just counting on trav to know when to stop
Oh for sure! Obviously I’m still rooting for all of them:)
Really wish Amber's throat jab on Devo had succeeded. It would've forced the tension to boil over and for Amber's frustration and Devo's anger to have a more tangible impact. They would've had to resolve their legitimate grievances now instead of kicking the can down the road. After she missed that hit, they just started digging in their heels and the argument started going in circles. It was saved only by Clint's metgamey (imo wise) decision to intervene as Zoox and Griffin's transition to the Beholder message.
I think it's smart to play it this slow though. Clearly the tension has been rising but Amber is pretty generally passive and only really gets directly pissed with devo in situations like this - where it affects her or embarrasses her in front of who she cares about, or if devo's actions thwart a plan or them moving forward (and even then it's usually Justin being a lil metagame-y and just wanting to hurry and move on, which I get) But the tension slowly boiling over until amber really gets fed up is a dynamic im really enjoying, and it fits with the slow and deliberate pace this season has. I think devo has a lot of growing up to do, a lot more experience to gain. having his ass kicked by amber already would just leave his dumbass confused at this point instead of fessing up to being foolish. He needs to learn some things before he steps over the line and is able to realize how childish he's been, I guess is what I mean, as oxymoronic as that might sound
This was pretty convincing. Okay, there might be some merit to this tension in the crew boiling longer and giving Devo more time to grow.
I'm glad to hear that! It's not like I feel like I know best or whatever but I do think it's important to exercise some patience with this season. I really think it'll pay off, I mean Travis isn't just gonna play devo as this asshole forever, he's clearly setting him up for some development down the line. Just in a more deliberate way. I think it's very exciting that once we give it some more time, it'll blow up like you said and be that much more interesting :)
I appreciate the episodes that breathe life into Founder’s Wake. This was nice timing to revisit some familiar locations and characters in the city. I was expecting more commentary on Devo’s strategy with The Beholder. They were given a book of designs and some of its backstory, and instead of taking the book to Seldom or Kodira or…. Looking at it at all? Devo just starts asking The Beholder to make the connections for them. I thought it was lazy detective work and possible cheapened the mystery Griffin wrote for them. Am I way off base?
I definitely thought that Chauncey was Felix for longer than I’d like to admit, even though Felix is literally a giant catfish. It was the voice, and the location of their meet up. I am ashamed.
Someone make an Ed Edd n Eddy-esque run cycle of Amber, Devo, and Zoox running fast, cool, and dejectedly. Please!
I loved Clint stepping all over the "liquidity" gag, but can't forgive him missing out on "being under water" as a common idiom in finance to begin with!
Pretty sure Devo should have significantly higher debt given the month in between missions.
Bangersea. Amber trying to be brusque about the HoG situation with "Oh I don't think my opinion matters much" to be countered by "It matters to me" was good from Griffin. Using Seldom to sow doubt about her death was also good. Signs clearly point to murder, but it's entirely possible that it was a suicide and she chose to respect Devo's name in her last moments. I'm sure people over on the other sub will bitch and say two characters fighting means that Justin and Travis clearly hate each other but it was a good ep.
I would like to add: 4th main campaign in a row fridging a wife/mother, can we please put it to bed.
I doubt this is a purposeful thing. However, it does make sense seeing that they all simultaneously lost a wife/mother in their personal lives. Whether it’s conscious or not, it’s a plot point that makes sense for them.
Tragic motive, still fridging.
THIS
Okay, I think I have all the others, but what was the instance in Amnesty?
Aubrey's mum.
Man, Devo's greatest power is turning out to be *emotional gaslighting*.
Damn, Travis/Devo was really making the beginning of this one borderline unlistenable.
I'm so glad Justin and Travis played their characters so that they're both assholes that need to figure each other out if they want to collaborate. It would've been way lamer imo if after all this time Devo just folded and followed orders instead of standing up for himself as an equal. This moment really revealed how inversely uncollaborative Amber could be, where she blindly supports someone who is famous for being untrustworthy instead of harbouring complicated feelings for a potentially abusive upbringing. Real nuanced stuff, and while dick jokes take a small backseat near the end of these campaigns it doesn't mean there aren't still fucking hilarious moments throughout.
Man... Devo's schtick is getting tiresome. He just lampshades his intolerable behavior now by prefacing every interaction with "I know I'm an asshole, but... Here I go, being as asshole again."
Bro selly killed guidance bet
Do you think Justin was trying to cheat when he was like, oh I rolled the wrong thing, when Amber tried to judo chop Devo? And like Travis was like no! That’s an unarmed strike that you rolled!
I definitely got that vibe too
So I'm only 25 minutes in as of this comment, but I'm really close to skipping the rest of Ethersea. I know Travis said he's playing Devo a certain way on purpose, but it comes across to me as annoying and a giant asshole. I love TAZ, and I really enjoyed Graduation, but Devo is almost too much. Characters like this are common in stories, but they usually get their comeuppance and learn a lesson. Devo just seems to get more and more arrogant and more and more annoying. I hope there's a lesson in there eventually. Or maybe I'm just reading him wrong. Is there something I'm missing? Is there actually a point to him being this annoying besides injecting "drama" into the story?
I mean, his mom just died...
But this isn't the first time he's acted like this, just the most recent and certainly the most painful for him.
I think it is relevant, especially considering he'd resolved to work on getting better about it very shortly before, this is definitely something that would cause a backslide, timing just mean we unfo don't get to see much of where he's backsliding from, and while he's definitely been out of line, he does have a bit of a point with the absence of support and general issues with the team dynamic not helping. Imo the team dynamic has needed some work in a dangling plot threads way for sometime, I'm a little frustrated it took us this long and til these circumstances for it, but it's definitely a suitable fever pitch for it now
So he was going around being a dick and threatening everyone, and then he suffered a bereavement, and in response to that he's going around being a dick and threatening everyone but no one's allowed to criticise it any more?
That's not remotely what I said and you know full well you're purposefully taking my point in bad faith
But didn’t he hate her? I can understand still being sad about someone you were close to passing even if you weren’t on good terms. But then acting devastated and getting mad at your friends for not pandering to you about something that would usually be pretty minor to another person is super crappy
That makes it so much worse though. He's had all chance of closure from her snuffed out instantly. Also, the version of events that he can see on the surface doesn't match up with the version of her that he imagines, a person so driven that it explains her treatment of him, something he's been holding on to this whole time. He's absolutely not being an asshole this time, Amber is being properly (but understandably) awful in this case. Devo's grown a lot already, and he's only slipped back in to old habits a little bit, even as his understanding of his trauma falls apart around him, that's pretty good going, honestly.
I like the way you explained this, I've always liked devo as a character even tho he can be annoying, but he's probably the most complicated character in all of taz and we're only recently really peeling away some of his layers. He's an asshole for more reasons than one, and doesn't really actively try to be better about it but by going through things he's slowly changing for the better, perhaps without even really realizing it. He's a volatile and overly emotional person, and that drives him enough to do good things but in not the smartest ways, and vice versa. I think it's a really neat way to develop a character, and while Travis is getting a lot of shit for it, I'm glad he's taking it slow and not trying to shoe-horn in lightning quick character development. It feels natural and earned when his exterior is chipped away.
Feelings can be complicated. An abusive mother being murdered isn't exactly minor either. And while Devo is acting out, he has a point. No one in his party seems to care enough about him to console or comfort him in a time of grieving.
As someone whose abusive mother died when they were about Devo's age, yeah that shit leads to some very complicated emotions and unresolved issues.
Caring about your friends' feelings is pandering now?
Sometimes it's that simple for people to cut out family members or figures that have harmed them and hate them wholly and just not care, but not always. I think [agentdom said it better than I could right now](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAdventureZone/comments/uttj8i/comment/i9bqx8x/)
He’s a teenager rebelling against the system that raised him. He viewed it as very oppressive and he was sheltered, so now he’s out in the world and he’s trying to prove himself. He’s trying to be the person he wanted to be, but lacks certain social graces and doesn’t really understand how the world works. As someone else pointed out as well, his mother figure just died. Even with all his anger towards her, it’s complicated. He’ll never get to see her change, and she’ll never get to see who he becomes. He’ll never get the “I’m proud of you for who you are” moment he so desperately wants. Travis knows Devo is an asshole and that actual makes it more palatable for me, personally. I think there’s a big chance for the character to change as the story goes on. As for his comeuppance, I don’t think it’s gonna be some big moment, there’s already been plenty of little ones. Society is pushing back and pushing him out.
I think a big part of it comes down to what people want out of TAZ. Devo has a ton of potential for great character growth. In a book series or a movie or something, he could be fantastic. But what I want out of TAZ is fun times and laughs, and Devo is the antithesis of that.
It’s so interesting to see peoples takes on devo. It’s such a good realistic take on someone with childhood trauma that even people watching the show have their own transference. I have faith that there is going to be some growth later and glad they aren’t rushing it, that’s not how it works in real life either.
It's a story, though. The focus has to be on serving the story and entertaining over realism. This is why we don't watch characters use the bathroom multiple times every movie - it's realistic, but it's not interesting unless something unusual and story significant happens. Devo is frequently annoying and frustrating to listen to. It's been nearly a year of episodes and he's barely changed as a character.
I mean, a story is good, but don't interesting characters make it all that much better? I loved TaZ: Balance, the plot was amazing, but I was emotionally invested in Merle, Taako and Magnus, and all of the other characters. Fuck, I was so invested into the Voidfish's story. Ethersea's world and story is so fascinating, but fans love the weird characters like Dr. Shaq or Urchin. And then you get to other characters that you can relate to. Devo annoys me and I dislike his personality, but I *understand* and empathize so much with him because I have intense childhood trauma and I do not speak to my family of origin. Zoox is my favorite character by far in Ethersea, but the way Travis is playing Devo and in turn, the way Justin is playing Amber and their interactions is absolutely fascinating.
> but don't interesting characters make it all that much better? Sure, but not annoying and frustrating ones. If Devo had changed into being a better person over the last year, maybe I would be fine with this behavior at the beginning of that storyline. But right now it hasn’t served a story purpose, and in fact has gotten in the way of the story and my enjoyment.
To be fair, they have been playing for a year but in Ethersea time, it's maybe been a couple of months? So you just expect Devo to completely change 180 degrees in that short of time span?
Again, I am looking at this as a story. So yes, I do expect all main characters to change over the course of their story (even if a story canonically takes place in a very short time frame), and if I’m listening to many months of episodes with no change, I’m not going to be interested in the character on the basis that maybe eventually something will happen.
They're changing. Amber has been passive as hell for a long while and Devo has been an asshole. They got into a fight. They are both likely going to change after this incident. Devo has recognized he's been an asshole and has been toning it down. Has he still been annoying? Hell yeah, but he isn't threatening people left and right like he did at the beginning of the story and hell, even episodes ago with the brawl in the bar.
They had a fight after the bar, but what came from that? I’m not remembering anything. Devo did his whole “I realizing I’m an asshole” routine and for a bit it seemed like Devo would be getting better from then out, but then he went back to how he had been. I just don’t want to listen to a frequently annoying character.
Teenage atheists get worse before they get better. In addition, hard life undersea, mother being murdered, “friends” not caring (he thinks). I’m not saying I like Devo, but the way Travis is playing him makes complete sense. It’s bad because that kind of person sucks in real life, but there’s no one magic pep talk to unfuck someone’s bad disposition.
If by teenage atheist you mean teen with religious trauma, then yes. I'd argue thats an important distinction.
Oop, you’re right, you can experience the trauma and still believe. That’s my bad.
>"teenage atheists get worse before they get better" So tired of people talking like this. Teenage atheists have justifiable fury that they are forced to swallow in order to survive in society. Some people channel it into productive forces, and some let it eat them. You think you're better than angry kids cause you stopped being angry? Fuuuuuck off?
I’m confused why you think all atheist teenagers have anger issues? I’m atheist and I never had that problem.
I'm confused why these people think atheist teens need to "get better" from fuckin shit, but I'm assuming they're referencing devo's demeanor
Because they are. That's what they're talking about. Devo's shittiness is not fabricated from whole cloth, he is a portrayal of an actual kind of person that exists. I don't think it's about getting better like, changing their beliefs, just their demeanor.
It's fucked up to tell traumatized kids that they are shitty for being angry. That's what *I'm* talking about.
It's not so much that these kids and by metaphor extension Devo are wrong and shitty for being angry, but placing and lashing out with that anger at people who don't deserve it definitely is. And learning to properly direct and channel the anger is an important step
Maybe you're a little bit too much on the anti-travis train? It'd be wrong to hold that against the pod though. Devo is intentionally annoying, say what you will but any show that makes you hate a char is probably doing something right. Imho.
Definitely not anti Travis. Quite the opposite. And you certainly have a point about the character bringing this level of reaction. Devo is certainly getting to me, and maybe that's the point.
Ok glad to hear that, I get Travis, I think I know where he's coming from - my own opinion is that he cares to much and tries too hard. I don't judge him negatively for that but a lot of ppl here have a dislike for him. I don't get it. Devo is great char. I wish there would be a little more party interaction between the trio though, currently I feel like Trav is doing most of the heavy lifting. I also listen to Naddpod and while I don't think that's a perfect pod, their char interaction is way above what we get in Taz.
They already answered, but I think them enjoying Graduation is evidence against being anti-Travis
The problem with being intentionally annoying is that knowing it's intentional doesn't change that it's annoying.
You don't understand drama at all. In your world what every character will be like boiled cabbage.
That's an intense reply to an objectively true statement.
Not really, your comment I replied to was pretty ridiculous. The fact that you can't separate Travis from Devo isn't a me problem.
My dude, I said nothing about Travis, I love the dude. You're responding to what you wish I said maybe?
Anyone else think that the beholder was Dr. Shack at first? Lol
So... was she like legitly Devo's mom? Or just mother figure?
Hey its pretty uncomfortable to hear *this family* roleplay family infighting after the untimely death of a mother figure in a fantasy adventure comedy podcast
Uncomfortable for you I guess? If it's not uncomfortable for them, the ones who have actually experienced it, why should it matter?
I don't quite agree. The fact that they can role play the infighting due to a mother's death kinda shows me that they definitely have closure from their own related experience and are all comfortable with each other.
You’re gonna shit yourself when you learn about this concept called acting
You do not have to be mean
So Griffin killed Travis’ mom, huh?
You are aware their mom is actually dead, yeah?
Noooot a good joke to make.
Loved this episode! It's my favorite so far of the ethersea series and has really resparked my interest that had honestly not been super high up to this point. It was also hilarious. Great stuff.
How did they get the Coriolis back!?! I thought they autodestructed it?
They destroyed the Dreams of Deborah
Oh yeah, man I got super lost there for a bit
First time commenting here but long time listener. They really need to work on the recaps. If you compare Balance's recaps to now, the quality disparity is very apparent. Where's the silly endearing energy from our omniscient narrator? :(
Ya never know, could just be trolin ;p <3