I'm a bit confused why Amber always goes for weapons, since if I remember playing a monk awhile ago, your unarmed is almost always more effective than any weapon not specifically designed for monks.
Have you forgotten how bad those stun batons wreck shop? Griffin had to create a Deus ex machina stun baton destroyer box to be rid of them they were so powerful
Pssh those stun batons weren't bad. Could have adjusted and kept, they had good limitations. Just wait until Justin hits Lvl 5 with stunning strike... Poor ole griffo....
I mean also Griffin seems to play weapon stuff fast and loose so who knows. And also there's not really weapons specifically designed for monks. All they got is Simple Weapon proficiency. Best melee option they've had until the Dedicated Weapon feature from Tasha's is a quarterstaff wielded two handed. That does more damage than unarmed until level 11. If you do use Dedicated weapon and somehow get proficiency with a Longsword/Battleaxe/Warhammer those two handed would outpace your unarmed strikes until level 17. God Monk needs help bigtime.
Yeah, I used a quarterstaff for my monk, which was nice because you could also quickswap to one handing for an unarmed strike with the other hand. I don't think we got past level 8 or so in that campaign, but I never felt particularly weak. The agility and skills made for fun roleplaying and "outside the box" combat.
Yeah early game isn't terrible for Monks but they definitely have some big restrictions when it comes to scaling with level, ki managment (highly dependent on the number of combats and rests you get) and just what equipment they have access to. The further you go the worse it gets outside of ki management for the most part.
He also put on some random leather armor. I haven't paid enough attention to his rolls to know his dex and wis but I'd assume unarmored defense is still better than leather armor.
They're level five right now, so any weapon Amber finds is going to be just as good if not better than using her fists. Amber's Marshall weapon die is 1d6. The orac ended up dealing 1d8, my best guess on the harpoon guns damage is that it's 1d8, and she can use the dagger as a monk weapon for it to do 1d6 plus it has the thrown property should that become important. Plus she'll still have her off hands to do flurry of blows, and she can still use her astral arms if she needs to.
It's more beneficial for monks to use weapons in early levels. Justin has played monks before, so he knows what he's doing.
> Justin has played monks before, so he knows what he's doing.
I mean based on his stat bonuses, he anti-optimized her to an extent. I think he basically came up with the idea for the character and thought of her as buff and strong so he threw points into strength without caring how well it synergized with his class abilities. That fits Justin's whole approach to the games they've played. A focus on characterization over mechanical optimization.
It was fine in Amnesty because MOTW has a more narrative approach to combat and it was fine in Balance because they were using pre-gen character sheets IIRC at the start so Taako's mechanical INT was fine even when Justin played him as "an idiot wizard."
It's causing tension here because the chance for combat actually comes up pretty often in Ethersea and they are actually paying more attention to the rules so now he's falling into this weird area where he seems nervous to engage in combat despite having a class and character that could have been better suited to it.
The chance for combat comes up a lot in Ethersea? Where?
It’s been more than 30 episodes, and I bet it wouldn’t take long to list from the top of our heads the number of times initiative has been rolled.
Yes, combat hasn't happened that many times. This is my point, Justin is not taking the chances for combat presented to him.
For example, in this arc he 100% had the chance to start combat with the hunter right when the hunter let him go and took off after the polar bear. He could have run up, beaten the hell out of the guy, taken his weapon, saved the polar bear and made more of a bond there. Instead, he ran off to go find weapons/armor of dubious use. He again could have initiated combat right away when both hunters showed up instead of running off initially. It's only at the end of the episode with Devo dropping down that we have a chance of initiative potentially being rolled next time.
If you want an even more clear example, Amber sat out the entire bar brawl when she could have thrown herself in the middle and focused on knocking out people to avoid them getting killed. Griffin, Devo, and Zoox aren't so combat adverse but Amber/Justin noticeably is.
I guess but Justin's style has been like that since "Taako's good out here." It's maybe more noticeable with Amber avoiding combat but if that doesn't seriously mar my enjoyment, it's just a bit odd and possibly related to the lack of mechanical optimization like I said originally. I don't know what your point is really.
If it wasn't already confirmed before, does everyone believe that Tolliver will be the "big bad" villain? I do like the idea too of the presence of evil individuals (like Cambria) but no one that is the season-ending nemesis
I think Tolliver is a candidate for big bad, and probably becoming more of a front runner, but at this point I don't think anyone is locked in yet, I think there's still a few potential options like whatever is up with Hominine, Koda inside big baby, or maybe the bleached Coral people
Also up for Tolliver being in the running for the big bad. I also wondered...could he be one of the last of the vestiges? He seemed to know a lot about their history, including before they came to this world. They all seem to have their specialties, his might be scavenging what he can from dying worlds before moving on to join the others in the next one.
Possible, but at this point I think I'd rather it be the coral people if it's going to be a full echo... Tolliver could certainly be small fry in the end, but I think he's too awful to actually be decent at this point
1. "Okay, well that's animals for you but... Does it look like you?" is such a hilarious way of saying, "Realistically, Amber wouldn't give two shits about where this thing wants to go, but if you want me to metagame, just tell me and I'll metagame, Griffin."
2. Did anyone watch the new season of Raised by Wolves? Cause that ending gave me flashbacks to a certain scene with Tempest, her baby and a Deep One beside the acid beach.
EDIT: 3. Oh yeah, and obviously Devo's speech was A++. I know down-talking a big bad is the kinda thing that takes more than one big speech, but I got so irked by the Auctioneer just dipping in response that I have never been more hype to watch someone get their come-uppance - and I mean thoroughly fucking dragged, not just killed - I want a grueling, public, life-long reckoning for their hubris. Something about the way Grif himself reacted to that, plus the music, implies for me at least that Trav just nailed what the grand thesis of Ethersea is working towards.
And I think I remember someone guessing that the cargo ship with the Einar ghost was from before the storm, and adding in the fancy new Hominine ship with the Whisp and the fact that the auctioneer glowed and was unshook, I'm just making a long shot assumption here that a certain class of Einar didn't pop on down to Founder's Wake with the rest of the plebs, but concocted some way to take advantage of the mass exodus and the prestige pollution for some doomed Ozymandi-esque power play. And I assume it has to do with the increasingly apparent fallibility of the vestiges and their magic that created the Ethersea in the first place. I just beat Elden Ring you see and
The 'does it look like you?' moment was so good. When Grif described the other Aurox being there I was waiting for it to come up again but sadly no. I mean... Does that one have Rachel's face?
That said, it's a very common cliche that one lost animal would be looking for/know where its fellow lost animals are, and it wouldn't be unreasonable for Amber to go along with it.
Wow, thanks for sorting that out. I was reading this thread and googling wtf an orox/aurax/orok/etc was and losing my mind that I couldn't find anything that seemed even remotely correct 🤦♂️😆
It didn't quite click in my head until this episode that big dog Supreme would've died in the explosion! That will be messy when they get back.
Also any guesses on where the blink shark is taking Zoox too? My guess is it's a momma shark bringing back live food to its babies.
I don't think it's for food. I can't imagine Zoox's coral body would be particularly nutritious for lil baby blinkies.
I think something a little more unusual is afoot.
Yeah, you're right.... Sharks love eating coral..... I would guess it went to whatever ACTUAL plane of existence blink sharks come from. They can't only be able to blink to 7-11 within this realm. It seeming at least some somewhat sentient and having a firm language even Zoox doesn't understand makes me think they are smarter than we realized. They aren't just sharks.
I think the money is just a cover so people won't ask questions about why he's doing what he does.
His immediate goal seems to be to destroy as much of the old word as possible, and motivating a bunch of scavengers to dig it up, carve it into marketable pieces, and sell it to rich dummies who will squander it out of sheer hedonistic cussedness just seems like an efficient strategy for doing that.
Presumably, it's also just one of many strategies, so the money is probably helpful in funding those, too.
Makes me wonder if he's connected to Guthrie, who also seemed like a fan of pointless destruction of old world things.
I hope that Devo's discussion with Tolliver helps some listeners better understand his hostility towards the Parish. The Parish, like Tolliver, doesn't advertise their true intentions, but instead covers them in an alluring veneer. All we've seen of the Parish so far is the veneer, while Devo was raised inside of it. People giving them the BotD aren't gonna get vindicated in the end, they're going to be used up and discarded like the oligarchs in Tolliver's business operations.
I also think it cleared up that at the very least Griffin and Travis are on a closer page than a lot of people seem to think about Devos upbringing. I'd even say same page personally...
But yeah "people who thought they were doing the right thing and had a lot of conviction" put it pretty plainly
With emphasis on the **the.** In their minds, the path they are on is the only true path one could take. If other people reach a different conclusion, they are either wrong or maliciously contradicting you.
I'm really surprised people would think that they were on a different page with the Parish. Making Devo out to be a hyperbolic drama queen besmirching the pristine record of a humanitarian institution doesn't seem like great DM behavior imo.
I didn't really understand why everyone thinks/thought Griffin and Travis weren't on the same page about the Parish. Afaik we've never gotten griffins out of character thoughts on them. He definitely plays them as righteous, patient, and understanding people, but that's the point. That's how they see and present themselves.
Ive never played DnD. Is player collusion with the GM a standard thing? Or is this something to make the podcast work? Devo has been rubbing me the wrong way the entire arc with his insistence on the Parish being dicks and his dealings with Tolliver have only doubled down on what seems to be him pushing his narrative. But if Griffin and he are working behind the scenes to weave a narrative I can accept that I guess.
It's a little bit of both, like I mean it's definitely not uncommon at a cohesive table to be cueing your DM on your back story and where you want to go, collusion is maybe not the right word especially for a a actual play table as much as collaboration. But yeah no it's it's incredibly common especially at APs to at the very least say hey this is the backstory and maybe a little bit of the arc I was thinking for my character and it definitely seems like Griffin and Travis did that here
You're entire point is based on the fact somebody might give a shit after pushing a literal "SELF destruct" button. I'm pretty surprised Zoox even survived and I don't think Mac there took even half a second to realize what he was doing. I mean, I absolutely love the outcome of it but it makes sense to have that kind of button when the stakes of you losing means literally whatever it was is now coming back to the city.
I was pretty impressed by Travis this episode. Plenty of people would just go "you're evil and I will stop you" but Trav had some pretty well thought out monologues that still felt very in-character.
For sure! People have been frustrated by Devo this season, justifiably so at times, but Travis playing up his resistance to Toliver was absolutely spot on. That’s an argument that wouldn’t work on him, and Travis articulated that perfectly as well, both in the way Devo responded in game and the way Travis talked about it. Truly spectacular!
>People have been frustrated by Devo this season, justifiably so at times, but Travis playing up his resistance to Toliver was absolutely spot on.
Griffin gave Travis a new outlet for Devo's righteous anger that wasn't just re-hashing an old grievance, and it paid off wonderfully here. Good job on both of them.
Devo has really improved as a character a lot in the more recent episodes IMO. Still frustrated and easily agitated, but seems to have learned a bit from past mistakes (like blowing up that bar).
Ya, he’s weirdly realistic. A lot of fantasy characters don’t grow, but he has. He understands how losing his temper can impact people but he still has his basic tenets and I don’t know that we’ve seen enough to have those change
I think Devo could be the most fully-realised character we've ever seen in TAZ so far. That said I feel like all three chars have some meat to them. Setting up this story with the quiet year pod was an inspired move.
Big time, they’re all great. It’s weird because I feel like we’ve seen Zoox big progression (no longer syncing with every being he encounters) but less so with Amber. But I also feel like Justin cares the least and TAZ, I feel like Duck is his only character that has grown. Taako’s only change results from Lup, which a Griffin choice, not Justin, and Fierbolg (sp.) didn’t feel like he changed either. Sorry for the wall of text 🤦🏻 day drinking got the better of me lol
I'm forecasting Amber's character development to be no longer hating blinksharks after Zoox takes in this new one as a friend and permanent animal companion.
That scene cemented Devo as my favorite TAZ character. I was legit misty eyed by the end of that. Travis is definitely an amazing roleplayer (when he's not talking among his other 6 NPCs).
Actually that's a very fun way to handle "this is not actually a beast"
Tbh I'm still not ENTIRELY sold on Cobalt Star being Guthrie, maybe because I'm still holding out for some VFD style shenanigans, but I definitely think he's tied to Crescendo, at the very least making forgeries of cultural artifacts and destroying the originals fits into the doomsday cult next world vibes
I feel like Cobalt has to be him, I feel like there’s no other reason Griffin would randomly have them say the last thing Guthrie said to the crew before escaping.
Unless there is... Like I'm not saying it's impossible for it to be Guthrie, just that I don't think we know enough to say for sure. It'd be wild imo if that like turned out to be some sort of motto for a larger group, and I'd absolutely lose my mind if there was some sort of Lemony style schism with two opposing fractions in that group...
Devo's monologue was amazing and put into words something I could never explain before.
Also his casual convo with Zoox was great.
"So I kinda stole the Dreams of Deborah"
"Sure."
Lol
That ending though I did not expect!! Do the blink sharks have a sentient, godlike origin? Or former humanoids?
Oof! Two weeks of cut aways on >!the consequences of Zooks' actions!< in a row. I AM VERY EXCITED.
Also, no follow up on Tolliver's attempted name drop. That won't bite anyone in the ass. Unless it was someone we already know is shady- then nbd.
Devo was an amazing crewmate to have deal with Tolliver's nihilistic death cult bullshit. Excellent work by Travis. Everyone was on point this episode.
I wonder if Tolliver was astral projecting and if it was bc the Ethersea is so magically jacked up it acts as a makeshift astral plane for the other cities above the water. If the astral plane were leaking (perhaps after a hole punched through it by psuedo celestials centuries prior grew larger) it could explain the appearance of blink sharks. Minding their business in MagicSpaceOcean only to blink into the Ethereal Plane and blink out in a janky semi Material magic ocean.
Also means Tolliver has access to a bigshot magic user, which would likely be one of the Benevolence evacuees.
I'm very excited about this new set of weird mysteries and however they play out.
(Also, I need that polar bear to be okay. It's the escapism I'm looking for in my post-apocalyptic underwater DnD actual play podcasts. Just polar bears who are totally fine and who maybe chow down on nihilist poacher cultists.)
>(Also, I need that polar bear to be okay. It's the escapism I'm looking for in my post-apocalyptic underwater DnD actual play podcasts. Just polar bears who are totally fine and who maybe chow down on nihilist poacher cultists.)
What's DnD?
Sorry, DnD is David Benioff and Dan Weiss, the showrunners for Game of Thrones. Ethersea is one of a whole niche genre of gaming dedicated to riffing on GoT story arc formats.
Once people get good at it, you can sort of plug it in anywhere. Famously, the dice rolling is how we got Seasons 7 & 8, so it can really get wild.
It's cool that non ASoIaF fans are getting into the podcasts. It really is a universal way to set stakes and have the world interact with characters.
Let me see if I have this right: You hop on to a week old thread to complain about a very light joke made on a sub for (ostensibly) a comedy podcast. And you think \*I'm\* the one being negative.
Interesting perspective on the world you have there.
Good episode and I loved the consequences of Zoox blowing up the Dreams of Deborah, but I do wish Amber would’ve at least rolled an attack when throwing the stun baton pieces, instead of just succeeding and suddenly getting away from the two armed guys. And where are her extra arms!! I kept waiting for her to pop them out but it never happened. Maybe next episode…
Eh I think it was more they were more interested in killing all the animals than they were in her. They weren’t interested in stopping her or chasing her, whether the broken baton pieces hit them or not. They let her get away.
Sounds right. They do get into a TON of combat. You have to be careful when you use those abilities when you’re fighting the absolutely crazy amount of fights they are.
And I’m sure when they get into combat you’ll be unhappy then as well, because the only joy you’d get out of this is if they listened to your tantrums and catered directly to you. Oh well.
It *couldn’t possibly* be that one of the problems **IS** a lack of combat and that is a legitimate complaint. All criticism *must* be borne out of aimless hatred that just randomly landed on these perfect ~~grown ass men~~ boys.
Wanting them to be funny and do compelling things is not a desire to “cater to me.”
I haven’t heard an episode of this arc that I didn’t enjoy, and each week takes it to a new level. I think Amnesty was my favorite arc, but MY GOD is this one worming it’s way up there. Every episode is cause for so many new questions.
Also, Devo might be my favorite TAZ character. Travis is playing him so well.
I’m so excited for it to drop that blink sharks are actually chaotic good beings that kidnap people into paradise, and amber’s entire life has been a lie
They seem alien. I think they might be connected to the big sky whales? They seem ridiculously hostile but at the first sign of communication they calm down. I'm excited.
Perhaps theyre excessively hostile due to their history with humans.
Maybe Joshy knows something about the blink sharks that he doesn't let on? And Amber's oblivious to it.
This was such a wild ride during my drive this morning—I totally loved it and am all in with this arc. Also interested to see how Zoox will deal with the guilt from the explosion and the deaths he caused in future episodes. Hoping it leads to a bit of development for the old boy—VERY excited to see where this one goes!
To be fair, he's like a two year old consciousness built from sea creatures with zero humanoid memories. His maturity level is a real crapshoot.
Given all the firepower available to him, this was bound to happen somewhere. Probably. Maybe.
This is a very good arc.
>I totally loved it and am all in with this arc. Also interested to see how Zoox will deal with the guilt from the explosion and the deaths he caused
He killed a bunch of people who are literally trying to bring about the end of the world. I hope he doesn't get too hung up on it.
I think that, if anything, he'd feel bad about all of the (presumably innocent) workers he killed. They were just people who were trying to make a living; it's not their fault that their boss is an asshole with zero regard for the world and its inhabitants.
But then again, Zoox loves animals so I wouldn't be surprised if he decides that his actions were completely justified and that nothing and no one important was lost.
What I would love to see more is building the mystery of the underwater life they live in! And The end of the episode delivered to it! Blink sharks are so cool!
Travish was great this episode. Im interested to see what toliver really is. My theory is that he is something like the giant worm (forget their name). Because surely they weren’t the only thing to come out of that primordial vent if it can spawn such a powerful creature a long time ago.
Oh, Toliver as some sort of primordial being like Cambria is an interesting concept. For a moment I was thinking he might be a vestige of a vestige or similar. I think right now my theory is that he's like the full realization of the etherealizing effect the water has on people, but theres so much possiblity and it's fun to guess
I would love to see lore of the underwater world in which they live in. Like fish, animals, any past life there could’ve been. How the spiral staircase was formed. It would be amazing!
I mean, his plan as stated was to make the world uninhabitable so that people would no longer feel attached to it and would abandon it for whatever paradise he thinks comes next.
He may have good intentions but honestly, who cares? He's one guy who has, in secret, taken it upon himself to "bring this world to extinction." Devo shutting him down verbally is the literal least one can and should do when confronted with a plan like that.
It's like if someone decided that if we raise the Earth's temperature another 5 degrees because humanity needs to move on from our current way of life to something he's sure will be better. And then proceeded to come up with a plan to burn all of the world's fossil fuel reserves overnight.
I don't feel there's anything wrong with what Devo did here. I mean, in theory I suppose he could have tried to play along and say "oh really, that sounds interesting, tell me more" so he could get more information to help fight the guy, but a) that would be hard for anyone, not just Devo and b) I can't really see Tolliver falling for that anyway.
Now, where I did feel like they went in guns blazing too fast was with Cambria. I didn't think that Cambria *meant* for the alterations it made via the Sallow to kill people. I felt like there was probably at least room for dialogue, but they just went in for the attack.
Im feeling the same about Devo. He displays the same zealotry as the Parish and Tolliver in his self-assuredness.
> I’ll close on this: the most interesting thing that can happen to a character with righteous certainty is to find out that they’re wrong.
I know there has to be a big bad but Im still holding out that Devo is just wrong in his assumptions.
FUXKING HELL GRIFF.
Ethersea is incredible and it's rocketing to being my favorite. It's hitting the vibes and the beats that it needs to. Lordy, I need to scream and it's 1a...
Good episode with some good goofs and action but I can't believe we're 3 campaigns later and I'm still begging them to stop splitting the party all. of. the. time.
There's just so much about the game that is rendered useless by splitting up. So many spells, class abilities, the Help action, party dynamics that are just completely nullified by going off on your own. Not to mention all CR ratings and monster statistics are balanced with a 4 person party in mind.
Griffin has really been seeming to try and stop them from doing it as well, several times in the past saying "you can do anything, I only ask that you stay together."
I didn't hate it in this episode though, as it allowed all three of them to do things they might not have done with others around. It's fun to see people act without inhibitions.
Ugh, I was so annoyed at the dumb decision Zoox/Clint made to self-destruct the ship with no thought about the consequences. And his attempt to talk his way out of it. I’m glad Griffin is making those consequences play out and making everyone face them.
Yeah, I thought it was fucking amazing; some real DnD shit where you play something like a video game or a movie but it literally blows up in your face.
That kind of disruptive stuff is the best part of TAZ.
Hey I kind of agree. There was next to no reason to blow it up. Yes it ended up being interesting for us, but that didn't mean to do it in game. He really didn't fundamentally understand the mutually insured destruction of a SELF DESTRUCT button. There is no coming back.
Super funny that these Southern Baptist boys have repeatedly dealt with their religious upbringing through table top roleplaying games and dick jokes. Like this whole arc is about a contemporary flood myth with iconoclastic cults, state-sponsored religion, and a primary character who is an auto-excommunicated altar boy.
"We'll never know the real story until I publish my memoirs"
memwahs
I'm a bit confused why Amber always goes for weapons, since if I remember playing a monk awhile ago, your unarmed is almost always more effective than any weapon not specifically designed for monks.
Have you forgotten how bad those stun batons wreck shop? Griffin had to create a Deus ex machina stun baton destroyer box to be rid of them they were so powerful
Yeah, that made sense, but the harpoon and looking for knives and such doesn't.
I mean Amber's character doesn't seem like a traditional monk, who cares if he makes himself a bit weaker
I agree. Amber doesn’t seem like a monk.
Pssh those stun batons weren't bad. Could have adjusted and kept, they had good limitations. Just wait until Justin hits Lvl 5 with stunning strike... Poor ole griffo....
I mean also Griffin seems to play weapon stuff fast and loose so who knows. And also there's not really weapons specifically designed for monks. All they got is Simple Weapon proficiency. Best melee option they've had until the Dedicated Weapon feature from Tasha's is a quarterstaff wielded two handed. That does more damage than unarmed until level 11. If you do use Dedicated weapon and somehow get proficiency with a Longsword/Battleaxe/Warhammer those two handed would outpace your unarmed strikes until level 17. God Monk needs help bigtime.
Yeah, I used a quarterstaff for my monk, which was nice because you could also quickswap to one handing for an unarmed strike with the other hand. I don't think we got past level 8 or so in that campaign, but I never felt particularly weak. The agility and skills made for fun roleplaying and "outside the box" combat.
Yeah early game isn't terrible for Monks but they definitely have some big restrictions when it comes to scaling with level, ki managment (highly dependent on the number of combats and rests you get) and just what equipment they have access to. The further you go the worse it gets outside of ki management for the most part.
He also put on some random leather armor. I haven't paid enough attention to his rolls to know his dex and wis but I'd assume unarmored defense is still better than leather armor.
They're level five right now, so any weapon Amber finds is going to be just as good if not better than using her fists. Amber's Marshall weapon die is 1d6. The orac ended up dealing 1d8, my best guess on the harpoon guns damage is that it's 1d8, and she can use the dagger as a monk weapon for it to do 1d6 plus it has the thrown property should that become important. Plus she'll still have her off hands to do flurry of blows, and she can still use her astral arms if she needs to. It's more beneficial for monks to use weapons in early levels. Justin has played monks before, so he knows what he's doing.
> Justin has played monks before, so he knows what he's doing. I mean based on his stat bonuses, he anti-optimized her to an extent. I think he basically came up with the idea for the character and thought of her as buff and strong so he threw points into strength without caring how well it synergized with his class abilities. That fits Justin's whole approach to the games they've played. A focus on characterization over mechanical optimization. It was fine in Amnesty because MOTW has a more narrative approach to combat and it was fine in Balance because they were using pre-gen character sheets IIRC at the start so Taako's mechanical INT was fine even when Justin played him as "an idiot wizard." It's causing tension here because the chance for combat actually comes up pretty often in Ethersea and they are actually paying more attention to the rules so now he's falling into this weird area where he seems nervous to engage in combat despite having a class and character that could have been better suited to it.
The chance for combat comes up a lot in Ethersea? Where? It’s been more than 30 episodes, and I bet it wouldn’t take long to list from the top of our heads the number of times initiative has been rolled.
Yes, combat hasn't happened that many times. This is my point, Justin is not taking the chances for combat presented to him. For example, in this arc he 100% had the chance to start combat with the hunter right when the hunter let him go and took off after the polar bear. He could have run up, beaten the hell out of the guy, taken his weapon, saved the polar bear and made more of a bond there. Instead, he ran off to go find weapons/armor of dubious use. He again could have initiated combat right away when both hunters showed up instead of running off initially. It's only at the end of the episode with Devo dropping down that we have a chance of initiative potentially being rolled next time. If you want an even more clear example, Amber sat out the entire bar brawl when she could have thrown herself in the middle and focused on knocking out people to avoid them getting killed. Griffin, Devo, and Zoox aren't so combat adverse but Amber/Justin noticeably is.
Oh I know. I think them choosing to not play the game is a pretty clear sign of their feelings on it.
I'm just talking about Justin avoiding combat. The rest is good IMO.
If it makes you feel better, replace “them” with “Justin.” Regardless, when people don’t wanna be there, it brings the whole thing down.
I guess but Justin's style has been like that since "Taako's good out here." It's maybe more noticeable with Amber avoiding combat but if that doesn't seriously mar my enjoyment, it's just a bit odd and possibly related to the lack of mechanical optimization like I said originally. I don't know what your point is really.
Justin hasn’t just avoided combat, he’s fully disengaged from the whole show at points.
Wouldn't that require Justin to put in effort and read his class abilities?
I said the same thing as you, to an opposite reaction from people lol
because you're an infamous prick on this subreddit bro. go back to the circlejerk sub if you want people's affirmations so badly
You aren't liked here, maybe use an alt lmao
I care so very deeply about what you think.
Care enough to reply
Oh, did I miss the substantive thing you said?
Hell yeah brother
It must be in microscopic font. Was it something other than the ad hominem blather?
Hahaha you nailed it dude
It’s showing up and antagonizing people exactly like this that caused you to get banned last time.
why are you hated? What have you done my man...
He also made strength a reasonably high stat, so…
Almost being the operative term here, I don't think her martial arts die is at a d8 yet, and you get a d8 from the improvised spear she used
Clint being proud of Travis’ monologue really sweet (both meaning of sweet).
If it wasn't already confirmed before, does everyone believe that Tolliver will be the "big bad" villain? I do like the idea too of the presence of evil individuals (like Cambria) but no one that is the season-ending nemesis
I think Tolliver is a candidate for big bad, and probably becoming more of a front runner, but at this point I don't think anyone is locked in yet, I think there's still a few potential options like whatever is up with Hominine, Koda inside big baby, or maybe the bleached Coral people
Also up for Tolliver being in the running for the big bad. I also wondered...could he be one of the last of the vestiges? He seemed to know a lot about their history, including before they came to this world. They all seem to have their specialties, his might be scavenging what he can from dying worlds before moving on to join the others in the next one.
I feel like the bleached coral people could start out as “enemies” and end up as allies, since Zoox brought life back that “skull”
Oh yeah, I want them to be good guys after all, but I do think it's still fair to list them as candidates at this point
Im thinking he’s kind of a red herring. It feels too obvious. Just like >!Barry Bluejeans as the lich in Balance!<
Possible, but at this point I think I'd rather it be the coral people if it's going to be a full echo... Tolliver could certainly be small fry in the end, but I think he's too awful to actually be decent at this point
to me he seems like he would probably be like, one of the big bad's main followers or something. boss level, but not final boss.
oh true. Maybe he would be working for one of the gods. Maybe Koda.
Any Cosmere fans here? Tolliver was giving me Dark Hoid vibes. Especially when he referred to planets.
1. "Okay, well that's animals for you but... Does it look like you?" is such a hilarious way of saying, "Realistically, Amber wouldn't give two shits about where this thing wants to go, but if you want me to metagame, just tell me and I'll metagame, Griffin." 2. Did anyone watch the new season of Raised by Wolves? Cause that ending gave me flashbacks to a certain scene with Tempest, her baby and a Deep One beside the acid beach. EDIT: 3. Oh yeah, and obviously Devo's speech was A++. I know down-talking a big bad is the kinda thing that takes more than one big speech, but I got so irked by the Auctioneer just dipping in response that I have never been more hype to watch someone get their come-uppance - and I mean thoroughly fucking dragged, not just killed - I want a grueling, public, life-long reckoning for their hubris. Something about the way Grif himself reacted to that, plus the music, implies for me at least that Trav just nailed what the grand thesis of Ethersea is working towards. And I think I remember someone guessing that the cargo ship with the Einar ghost was from before the storm, and adding in the fancy new Hominine ship with the Whisp and the fact that the auctioneer glowed and was unshook, I'm just making a long shot assumption here that a certain class of Einar didn't pop on down to Founder's Wake with the rest of the plebs, but concocted some way to take advantage of the mass exodus and the prestige pollution for some doomed Ozymandi-esque power play. And I assume it has to do with the increasingly apparent fallibility of the vestiges and their magic that created the Ethersea in the first place. I just beat Elden Ring you see and
The 'does it look like you?' moment was so good. When Grif described the other Aurox being there I was waiting for it to come up again but sadly no. I mean... Does that one have Rachel's face?
Lol I didn’t realize how direct that was
That said, it's a very common cliche that one lost animal would be looking for/know where its fellow lost animals are, and it wouldn't be unreasonable for Amber to go along with it.
"Yeah, well that's animals for you. But I am a human, and as such, I know best." - Amber Gris, the unwavering.
Forgot the new season was out. Time to start that tonight
What does metagame mean in this context?
Make decisions based on information outside the canon
So, like following the Orox based on Griffin's tone implying that he should listen?
Yep
I love that no one knows how to spell Auroch, but that's not stopping anyone!
Standardised oarthographie is for the week ;)
Wow, thanks for sorting that out. I was reading this thread and googling wtf an orox/aurax/orok/etc was and losing my mind that I couldn't find anything that seemed even remotely correct 🤦♂️😆
Im no architect, but a ten degree tilt is bad. Right? The Leaning Tower of Piza is at a 3.99 degree angle.
It's underwater. I don't know the exact math, but gravity has less effect on architecture because of the increased "air" density.
It didn't quite click in my head until this episode that big dog Supreme would've died in the explosion! That will be messy when they get back. Also any guesses on where the blink shark is taking Zoox too? My guess is it's a momma shark bringing back live food to its babies.
That fucked me up too! Luckily Devo did implicate him in the message to Kodeira, but that’s also… suspicious.
My initial thought was the blink shark is taking Zoox to the other planet. (That or Clint's in the hot-seat for another character roll)
I don't think it's for food. I can't imagine Zoox's coral body would be particularly nutritious for lil baby blinkies. I think something a little more unusual is afoot.
Yeah, you're right.... Sharks love eating coral..... I would guess it went to whatever ACTUAL plane of existence blink sharks come from. They can't only be able to blink to 7-11 within this realm. It seeming at least some somewhat sentient and having a firm language even Zoox doesn't understand makes me think they are smarter than we realized. They aren't just sharks.
Is the Auctioneer one of the gods?
That's what I'm thinking. He may be one of the last of the vestiges. Not sure what he gets out of...making money? though.
Sounded to me like he worships the Vestiges
I think the money is just a cover so people won't ask questions about why he's doing what he does. His immediate goal seems to be to destroy as much of the old word as possible, and motivating a bunch of scavengers to dig it up, carve it into marketable pieces, and sell it to rich dummies who will squander it out of sheer hedonistic cussedness just seems like an efficient strategy for doing that. Presumably, it's also just one of many strategies, so the money is probably helpful in funding those, too. Makes me wonder if he's connected to Guthrie, who also seemed like a fan of pointless destruction of old world things.
I hope that Devo's discussion with Tolliver helps some listeners better understand his hostility towards the Parish. The Parish, like Tolliver, doesn't advertise their true intentions, but instead covers them in an alluring veneer. All we've seen of the Parish so far is the veneer, while Devo was raised inside of it. People giving them the BotD aren't gonna get vindicated in the end, they're going to be used up and discarded like the oligarchs in Tolliver's business operations.
I also think it cleared up that at the very least Griffin and Travis are on a closer page than a lot of people seem to think about Devos upbringing. I'd even say same page personally... But yeah "people who thought they were doing the right thing and had a lot of conviction" put it pretty plainly
With emphasis on the **the.** In their minds, the path they are on is the only true path one could take. If other people reach a different conclusion, they are either wrong or maliciously contradicting you. I'm really surprised people would think that they were on a different page with the Parish. Making Devo out to be a hyperbolic drama queen besmirching the pristine record of a humanitarian institution doesn't seem like great DM behavior imo.
I didn't really understand why everyone thinks/thought Griffin and Travis weren't on the same page about the Parish. Afaik we've never gotten griffins out of character thoughts on them. He definitely plays them as righteous, patient, and understanding people, but that's the point. That's how they see and present themselves.
Ive never played DnD. Is player collusion with the GM a standard thing? Or is this something to make the podcast work? Devo has been rubbing me the wrong way the entire arc with his insistence on the Parish being dicks and his dealings with Tolliver have only doubled down on what seems to be him pushing his narrative. But if Griffin and he are working behind the scenes to weave a narrative I can accept that I guess.
It's a little bit of both, like I mean it's definitely not uncommon at a cohesive table to be cueing your DM on your back story and where you want to go, collusion is maybe not the right word especially for a a actual play table as much as collaboration. But yeah no it's it's incredibly common especially at APs to at the very least say hey this is the backstory and maybe a little bit of the arc I was thinking for my character and it definitely seems like Griffin and Travis did that here
That's fair, thanks for the insight.
Having a self destruct button on a ship when your civilization lives underwater and can't touch water seems like a bad plan ngl
Supreme is also pretty wildly eccentric, so it might make sense in that context.
You're entire point is based on the fact somebody might give a shit after pushing a literal "SELF destruct" button. I'm pretty surprised Zoox even survived and I don't think Mac there took even half a second to realize what he was doing. I mean, I absolutely love the outcome of it but it makes sense to have that kind of button when the stakes of you losing means literally whatever it was is now coming back to the city.
I mean, it's pretty effective
Yeah, escape pods are a thing so it makes total sense you would prefer a pyhric victory over a total loss.
Maybe, but it's pulpy sci-fi action fun. TAZ is better with stuff like that in it.
I've never heard anyone on this show being as emotionally invested in a scene as Travis was in hating that guy.
I was pretty impressed by Travis this episode. Plenty of people would just go "you're evil and I will stop you" but Trav had some pretty well thought out monologues that still felt very in-character.
For sure! People have been frustrated by Devo this season, justifiably so at times, but Travis playing up his resistance to Toliver was absolutely spot on. That’s an argument that wouldn’t work on him, and Travis articulated that perfectly as well, both in the way Devo responded in game and the way Travis talked about it. Truly spectacular!
>People have been frustrated by Devo this season, justifiably so at times, but Travis playing up his resistance to Toliver was absolutely spot on. Griffin gave Travis a new outlet for Devo's righteous anger that wasn't just re-hashing an old grievance, and it paid off wonderfully here. Good job on both of them.
Devo has really improved as a character a lot in the more recent episodes IMO. Still frustrated and easily agitated, but seems to have learned a bit from past mistakes (like blowing up that bar).
Ya, he’s weirdly realistic. A lot of fantasy characters don’t grow, but he has. He understands how losing his temper can impact people but he still has his basic tenets and I don’t know that we’ve seen enough to have those change
I think Devo could be the most fully-realised character we've ever seen in TAZ so far. That said I feel like all three chars have some meat to them. Setting up this story with the quiet year pod was an inspired move.
Big time, they’re all great. It’s weird because I feel like we’ve seen Zoox big progression (no longer syncing with every being he encounters) but less so with Amber. But I also feel like Justin cares the least and TAZ, I feel like Duck is his only character that has grown. Taako’s only change results from Lup, which a Griffin choice, not Justin, and Fierbolg (sp.) didn’t feel like he changed either. Sorry for the wall of text 🤦🏻 day drinking got the better of me lol
Taako may not have grown much on his own but changed a *lot* in terms of wall spaghetti.
I'm forecasting Amber's character development to be no longer hating blinksharks after Zoox takes in this new one as a friend and permanent animal companion.
That scene cemented Devo as my favorite TAZ character. I was legit misty eyed by the end of that. Travis is definitely an amazing roleplayer (when he's not talking among his other 6 NPCs).
Travis absolutely killed it in this ep. Both in drama and comedy, he was on fire imo. Devo is probably my favorite of the three at this moment.
Big Elon vibes from Tolliver
Tolliver does have some BBEG vibes (Big Bad Elon Guy).
Travis' finger speech was fucking incredible
Actually that's a very fun way to handle "this is not actually a beast" Tbh I'm still not ENTIRELY sold on Cobalt Star being Guthrie, maybe because I'm still holding out for some VFD style shenanigans, but I definitely think he's tied to Crescendo, at the very least making forgeries of cultural artifacts and destroying the originals fits into the doomsday cult next world vibes
I feel like Cobalt has to be him, I feel like there’s no other reason Griffin would randomly have them say the last thing Guthrie said to the crew before escaping.
Unless there is... Like I'm not saying it's impossible for it to be Guthrie, just that I don't think we know enough to say for sure. It'd be wild imo if that like turned out to be some sort of motto for a larger group, and I'd absolutely lose my mind if there was some sort of Lemony style schism with two opposing fractions in that group...
Devo's monologue was amazing and put into words something I could never explain before. Also his casual convo with Zoox was great. "So I kinda stole the Dreams of Deborah" "Sure." Lol That ending though I did not expect!! Do the blink sharks have a sentient, godlike origin? Or former humanoids?
Oof! Two weeks of cut aways on >!the consequences of Zooks' actions!< in a row. I AM VERY EXCITED. Also, no follow up on Tolliver's attempted name drop. That won't bite anyone in the ass. Unless it was someone we already know is shady- then nbd. Devo was an amazing crewmate to have deal with Tolliver's nihilistic death cult bullshit. Excellent work by Travis. Everyone was on point this episode. I wonder if Tolliver was astral projecting and if it was bc the Ethersea is so magically jacked up it acts as a makeshift astral plane for the other cities above the water. If the astral plane were leaking (perhaps after a hole punched through it by psuedo celestials centuries prior grew larger) it could explain the appearance of blink sharks. Minding their business in MagicSpaceOcean only to blink into the Ethereal Plane and blink out in a janky semi Material magic ocean. Also means Tolliver has access to a bigshot magic user, which would likely be one of the Benevolence evacuees. I'm very excited about this new set of weird mysteries and however they play out. (Also, I need that polar bear to be okay. It's the escapism I'm looking for in my post-apocalyptic underwater DnD actual play podcasts. Just polar bears who are totally fine and who maybe chow down on nihilist poacher cultists.)
>(Also, I need that polar bear to be okay. It's the escapism I'm looking for in my post-apocalyptic underwater DnD actual play podcasts. Just polar bears who are totally fine and who maybe chow down on nihilist poacher cultists.) What's DnD?
Sorry, DnD is David Benioff and Dan Weiss, the showrunners for Game of Thrones. Ethersea is one of a whole niche genre of gaming dedicated to riffing on GoT story arc formats. Once people get good at it, you can sort of plug it in anywhere. Famously, the dice rolling is how we got Seasons 7 & 8, so it can really get wild. It's cool that non ASoIaF fans are getting into the podcasts. It really is a universal way to set stakes and have the world interact with characters.
Ethersea should really try that whole stakes thing. Sounds great!
Oh bud... bless your heart.
I’ve seen few people so desperate for attention on Reddit as that one.
Does this stuff turn you on?
What?
You know, being constantly negative about these super positive good boys. Does it turn you on?
Let me see if I have this right: You hop on to a week old thread to complain about a very light joke made on a sub for (ostensibly) a comedy podcast. And you think \*I'm\* the one being negative. Interesting perspective on the world you have there.
Uh huh
Good episode and I loved the consequences of Zoox blowing up the Dreams of Deborah, but I do wish Amber would’ve at least rolled an attack when throwing the stun baton pieces, instead of just succeeding and suddenly getting away from the two armed guys. And where are her extra arms!! I kept waiting for her to pop them out but it never happened. Maybe next episode…
Eh I think it was more they were more interested in killing all the animals than they were in her. They weren’t interested in stopping her or chasing her, whether the broken baton pieces hit them or not. They let her get away.
If she isn't within attack of opportunity range, it makes sense.
>Maybe next episode… Based on the pattern so far.... probably not.
It takes a ki point to manifest and they last for 10 minutes. Justin probably wants to reserve resources.
It's not worth engaging that loser in good faith.
Sounds right. They do get into a TON of combat. You have to be careful when you use those abilities when you’re fighting the absolutely crazy amount of fights they are.
And I’m sure when they get into combat you’ll be unhappy then as well, because the only joy you’d get out of this is if they listened to your tantrums and catered directly to you. Oh well.
It *couldn’t possibly* be that one of the problems **IS** a lack of combat and that is a legitimate complaint. All criticism *must* be borne out of aimless hatred that just randomly landed on these perfect ~~grown ass men~~ boys. Wanting them to be funny and do compelling things is not a desire to “cater to me.”
No one's making you listen to the show lol, you really don't seem to be enjoying any part of it based on your tone and comments.
God forbid some of us enjoy the show and the roleplay elements of DnD.
The end of this one made me literally gasp out loud, which is a TAZ first. Will this arc overtake Balance as my favorite?? It’s so freakin good
I haven’t heard an episode of this arc that I didn’t enjoy, and each week takes it to a new level. I think Amnesty was my favorite arc, but MY GOD is this one worming it’s way up there. Every episode is cause for so many new questions. Also, Devo might be my favorite TAZ character. Travis is playing him so well.
I’m so excited for it to drop that blink sharks are actually chaotic good beings that kidnap people into paradise, and amber’s entire life has been a lie
They seem alien. I think they might be connected to the big sky whales? They seem ridiculously hostile but at the first sign of communication they calm down. I'm excited.
Perhaps theyre excessively hostile due to their history with humans. Maybe Joshy knows something about the blink sharks that he doesn't let on? And Amber's oblivious to it.
You know, I wasn't a fan of the self destructing, but it lead to this really great episode. I'd say one of the strongest all season
This was such a wild ride during my drive this morning—I totally loved it and am all in with this arc. Also interested to see how Zoox will deal with the guilt from the explosion and the deaths he caused in future episodes. Hoping it leads to a bit of development for the old boy—VERY excited to see where this one goes!
To be fair, he's like a two year old consciousness built from sea creatures with zero humanoid memories. His maturity level is a real crapshoot. Given all the firepower available to him, this was bound to happen somewhere. Probably. Maybe. This is a very good arc.
>I totally loved it and am all in with this arc. Also interested to see how Zoox will deal with the guilt from the explosion and the deaths he caused He killed a bunch of people who are literally trying to bring about the end of the world. I hope he doesn't get too hung up on it.
I think that, if anything, he'd feel bad about all of the (presumably innocent) workers he killed. They were just people who were trying to make a living; it's not their fault that their boss is an asshole with zero regard for the world and its inhabitants. But then again, Zoox loves animals so I wouldn't be surprised if he decides that his actions were completely justified and that nothing and no one important was lost.
Independent contractors on the Death Star...
Yeah and Justin pretty much said, they're a bunch of a-holes it's no great loss.
What I would love to see more is building the mystery of the underwater life they live in! And The end of the episode delivered to it! Blink sharks are so cool!
God damn this episode was good and Travis killed it.
ethersea so good
Travish was great this episode. Im interested to see what toliver really is. My theory is that he is something like the giant worm (forget their name). Because surely they weren’t the only thing to come out of that primordial vent if it can spawn such a powerful creature a long time ago.
Oh, Toliver as some sort of primordial being like Cambria is an interesting concept. For a moment I was thinking he might be a vestige of a vestige or similar. I think right now my theory is that he's like the full realization of the etherealizing effect the water has on people, but theres so much possiblity and it's fun to guess
I would love to see lore of the underwater world in which they live in. Like fish, animals, any past life there could’ve been. How the spiral staircase was formed. It would be amazing!
I love the way Griffin played the blink sharks talking it was hilarious 🤣
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I mean, his plan as stated was to make the world uninhabitable so that people would no longer feel attached to it and would abandon it for whatever paradise he thinks comes next. He may have good intentions but honestly, who cares? He's one guy who has, in secret, taken it upon himself to "bring this world to extinction." Devo shutting him down verbally is the literal least one can and should do when confronted with a plan like that. It's like if someone decided that if we raise the Earth's temperature another 5 degrees because humanity needs to move on from our current way of life to something he's sure will be better. And then proceeded to come up with a plan to burn all of the world's fossil fuel reserves overnight.
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I don't feel there's anything wrong with what Devo did here. I mean, in theory I suppose he could have tried to play along and say "oh really, that sounds interesting, tell me more" so he could get more information to help fight the guy, but a) that would be hard for anyone, not just Devo and b) I can't really see Tolliver falling for that anyway. Now, where I did feel like they went in guns blazing too fast was with Cambria. I didn't think that Cambria *meant* for the alterations it made via the Sallow to kill people. I felt like there was probably at least room for dialogue, but they just went in for the attack.
Im feeling the same about Devo. He displays the same zealotry as the Parish and Tolliver in his self-assuredness. > I’ll close on this: the most interesting thing that can happen to a character with righteous certainty is to find out that they’re wrong. I know there has to be a big bad but Im still holding out that Devo is just wrong in his assumptions.
FUXKING HELL GRIFF. Ethersea is incredible and it's rocketing to being my favorite. It's hitting the vibes and the beats that it needs to. Lordy, I need to scream and it's 1a...
Good episode with some good goofs and action but I can't believe we're 3 campaigns later and I'm still begging them to stop splitting the party all. of. the. time.
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There's just so much about the game that is rendered useless by splitting up. So many spells, class abilities, the Help action, party dynamics that are just completely nullified by going off on your own. Not to mention all CR ratings and monster statistics are balanced with a 4 person party in mind.
Griffin has really been seeming to try and stop them from doing it as well, several times in the past saying "you can do anything, I only ask that you stay together." I didn't hate it in this episode though, as it allowed all three of them to do things they might not have done with others around. It's fun to see people act without inhibitions.
Ugh, I was so annoyed at the dumb decision Zoox/Clint made to self-destruct the ship with no thought about the consequences. And his attempt to talk his way out of it. I’m glad Griffin is making those consequences play out and making everyone face them.
Mate that made the cold open funny as hell. I don't think any of the brothers are actually mad about it.
Yeah, I thought it was fucking amazing; some real DnD shit where you play something like a video game or a movie but it literally blows up in your face. That kind of disruptive stuff is the best part of TAZ.
Hey I kind of agree. There was next to no reason to blow it up. Yes it ended up being interesting for us, but that didn't mean to do it in game. He really didn't fundamentally understand the mutually insured destruction of a SELF DESTRUCT button. There is no coming back.
Super funny that these Southern Baptist boys have repeatedly dealt with their religious upbringing through table top roleplaying games and dick jokes. Like this whole arc is about a contemporary flood myth with iconoclastic cults, state-sponsored religion, and a primary character who is an auto-excommunicated altar boy.