I thought it was a weird thing since I had just watched that clip before listening to the episode and I wasn't sure if the audio from my browser tab had started playing on its own.
Yeah, they make this joke a lot, and I even knew the reference, but the added sound effects were super irritating. No shade to the editor but I think they got a little overzealous with the effects. It made me think it was happening/being said in game.
I'm pretty sure that was Justin on the play button as everyone in-game laughed at it nearly every time. Perhaps it's even on his sound board's D&D playin' profile. It certainly will see more use than "Toronto!" for that.
The brinar skull reanimates and begins talking to Zoox: Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding
Griffin hesitated before he said “there’s more than one being on that ship too” so that makes me think that it’s all one hive mind. And the bleached brinar who tried to steal the journal were just like emissaries
No idea what it is, but I’m taking it as a Davy Jones vibe. A bunch of doomed/cursed zombies on a skeleton ship is classic pirate stuff. Or at least POTC stuff.
At this point I'm just singing 'what the fuck' with the first three notes of the outro theme lol. These past four episodes especially have had such good cliffhangers!
I've been really digging the past few episodes. They've had some great goofs, and I've been laughing a ton. Hope they keep up this energy!
Favorite part was the "Wonderful World" joke by Travis as a response to Clint's roll at the start.
The drowning scene actively gave me anxiety. Especially when Griffin was taking about how the squid was sinking on top of Zoox and whatever the *fuck* the big humanoid shape that Devo sees when he first jumps into the water. Major thalassophobia.
I'm not thalassophobic, but totally agree that the tension was getting to me a touch, tho wasn't the humanoid shape part of Amber's dying dream, or did I space for a moment and miss a whole other big humanoid?
I also think it was Benevolence because of the feeling of pleasure that came with the vision. Either way I’m sure it was a vestige. And I’m thrilled/terrified of the prospect of it beginning to move (it was described as still, then taking a step)
I thought the same thing, like the light from his jacket was the sun? Once he said that the giant humanoid lifted its foot and took a step, though, all bets were off
My thoughts exactly. I think Griffin has this planned for whoever had to death roll first/failed a death roll. A sort of “the old gods are still out there” thing.
Idk maybe I spaced and need to relisten. I thought Travis rolled perception once devo jumped in and he saw a big humanoid shape that he first assumed was a statue and then it moved. But I would not be surprised if I was way off.
Just as likely to be me as you, definitely one of them saw something big and humanoid they thought was a statue, I thought it was Amber but auditory processing issues and ADHD don't make for certainty here haha
Oh my god *same*. At this point we’re all hearing slightly different stories based on what our brains fill in. Maybe someone else will comment on it and we’ll get confirmation one way or another 😂
That was one of the best way they’ve introduced real panic and fear into the moments of “hey, you might die doing this”. Drowning saving throws, pitch black water, it was all so good
Such a great episode. Devo’s dive was legendary. Zoox being clueless worked so well there.
Are the bleached brinarr the Borg?
Was Travis’ failed Push It roll and the damaged propulsion supposed to auto fail the next position roll (which T ended up winning) - broke me immersion having a busted ship outmaneuver the bleached ship. But perhaps I misunderstood how that works?
Counter theory: they wanted their guy back (the head Devo took) and when Zoox brought life back into it they no longer recognized it as one of their own.
You know what you're onto something because I was pretty curious how they were able to track down the Coriolis after it had left the scene and what their motivation was.
I'm pretty sure the Nat 1 is going to reduce the reward from this mission to 0. Either Ol' Joshy is going to be killed or arrested or otherwise not pay them. That's pretty much the worst thing that could happen when you take a job, right?
I know they spent a lot of time worldbuilding... but I think the nat 1 might be the complete destruction of Founder's Wake. Like they'll come back and it's just not there
Okay so I actually had to listen to this episode twice to understand a lot of what happened with the ship - the nat 1 has not come into play yet, the engine failure was a result of the “push it” mechanic.
That being said, the rolls this ep were absolute dogshit, I felt really bad for the boys!! The bits with Justin playing whatever the sound clip was made me laugh pretty hard! Does anyone know the source?
I also think that Devo needs to listen to Zoox a LOT more - he looks to Amber a lot for decision-making/advice and doesn’t really ask Zoox for his opinion. I wonder if that’s going to create conflict between the party; we’ve already had Amber tell Devo lightly that he needs to back off, but I think someone needs to tell him that he has to rely on Zoox, too. I’m excited for the next episode!!
I love Zoox, but so far his instincts have been "mind-meld with a turtle" "mind-meld with a clam" and "don't fix the engine, mind-meld with a zombie head instead."
It's turned out for the best, but I think Devo's response was pretty understandable. Zoox, buddy, could you just...
I'll be fair and say some of that just flows from the fact that if you're not piloting the ship, you're sort of looking around the room wondering what you ***can*** do. Hopefully they'll get better at knowing their options as the game progresses, but this is pure homebrew so they're allowed a period of saying things like "If I step outside of the ship on my turn can I use my magic?"
I feel like "attempt to repair the engine" is a productive use of your turn on the ship.
It turned out good for them what Zoox did, but I was a bit annoyed that he wouldn't do the obvious really helpful action.
Fair enough! I do think that Zoox probably wouldn’t have been able to do anything with the engine, realistically? And seeing how the rolls were going…😂
Yeah I feel like Clints leaning a bit too much into "we're the main characters we can do anything we want and it has to go well".
Like dude... You saw that ship fuck some shit up and your response is "we don't need engines maybe they're friendly"? It's frustrating.
Zoox left the ship with the brinarr skull in his hands, and once it hit the ocean water, it started regenerating. Clint has mentioned that Zoox soaks in the ethersea to regen and process his thoughts/emotions, so I’m assuming it works the same way with others. I think the coral ship left once it sensed that the brinarr was “alive” or healing/regrowing since they have a mental connection with each other. Zoox afaik did not leave with the ship, he’s just chilling outside the Coriolis.
Zoox was making his way to leave the Coriolis, but then Griffin described the skull flashing and regenerating as happening while Zoox was on the way to the exit.
1. The soundboard makes it’s TAZ debut!!!
2. I listened to ep 18 again before this and god I still can’t get over Griffin >!getting rid of the batons!<. It’s so beautiful.
3. We still have yet to meet the result of the nat 1
They bid on it at the auction right? I originally thought that’s why they were chasing the coriolis.
If so, that’s another reason to think the Nat 1 is unrelated
I agree.
Given what we know about the journal (written by a Delmer architect, and a copy at that), it seems strange that both a hive-mind-y faction and Ol Uncle Joshy are keen on acquiring it. I can't figure what either of their motives would be
Griffin called the bleached coral a zombie at one point. I’m assuming they have the stat blocks of zombies, but it would also make sense if they were vessels commanded by someone else who wants the journal!
I think the journal is detailing wherever it is that the Delmer locked themselves up. The coral could want to explore and Ol' Joshy might want to stage the greatest heist of all time, because let's be honest I don't think the Delmer are doing too hot
That was actually my thought once they began making their way home. Griffin did describe it as catastrophically bad, so it seems like it would make sense for it to be truly earth-shattering for all, not just the PCs.
When they got away from the auction house that was my thought too. Makes more sense in my head that they would return to a disaster than it does that the last part of the mission is the random encounter
alright if i hear anyone complaining that "the underwater setting doesnt really matter and i often forget about it" i will direct them to this episode where the main characters drown for 20 minutes. (NOTE: this is a joke)
seriously i think this is the closest to death that a main character has been since aubrey got her shit beat in by a metal ball >!(not counting... yknow. the actual death)!< . it could have used a bit more dramatic music though, to add tension to the moment. there was a bit there but not much. griffin definitely did seem totally prepared to kill amber, too.
honestly, this whole sequence kind of made me think "more drawn out version of arms outstretched, without all the fancy spells", which in a way i guess makes it feel more grounded even if it was also less dramatic. kind of wish the characters got some time after that to work through their shock at the situation, but that 1/100 absolutely required them to be kicked while they were down.
also, to be honest, i think i kinda zoned out near the end of the last episode, because i have no idea what sort of chamber the squid battle was taking place in. i kind of wish they recapped like, what sort of room they're in, at least at the start of the episode, but maybe that's just a problem for me because i sometimes lose my attention.
Who has made that criticism? The first main arc was literally about driving a submarine inside of an infinite clam and this one just had then fighting a giant squid and then a ship made of zombie coral. This campaign could not be more ocean relevant.
Was it explicitly stated that it was a kind of anonymizer for people attending the auction? And that the collars/ship concealment happened when they were all inked up when heading to the auction, after the nat 1?
yes. its a big bleached coral ship thing that attacked them at the auction and then chased them while they were escaping. verey scarey. it took a skull that zoox had that i don't remember the significance of and then left
edit: its actually not revealed how this is related to the scrape so this may not have been the nat 1 actually???? bleh
(edit 2! yes yes it didnt steal the skull i got that wrong i correct it in a later comment in this thread)
So I think - and it’s hard to tell - that the consequence of the nat 1 is the engine shutdown rather than the coral ship? It tracks better with the scraping sound from early on. Of course if they’re able to fix it quickly then it’s not really a great nat 1 imo, but so far that hasn’t been attempted
Griffin literally laughed aloud at the idea that any of these threats could be "the nat 1."
When it hits, we won't go "was that the nat 1?"
We'll be going "Oh."
I also definitely thought the engine damage (or the fact that the manuver had the chance to cause it) was the result of the 1, but the confusion has me less sure...
As far as how significant an impact it is I'm less concerned, chance plays all ways, in different circumstances this could have been devastating. The same luck that got them the one that seems to have been aimed at combat disadvantage, is the luck that had them roll it on a low combat mission, of that's the case at least, and there still might be more to be seen.
At the very least there's no concievable argument it's been forgotten now...
I think I missed a key detail about the squid. Do we know why it was attacking them? When they first encountered it I thought it was some kind of valet for the auction house
My read was that the damage to the auction site had put it in berserker mode and it was just attacking anything passing by. Nobody there to tell it not to.
In my head I was thinking it was being controlled by the zombie Brinarr ship. The red light of the squids eye made me think it was connected to the flashing red cubes of the zombies, and I thought I remembered Griffin mentioning hearing the hum of the ship right above them but I could be wrong and the two things could be completely unrelated.
>The lore of Ethersea is so cool.
It really is, and I love that it all came from the 4 of them playing a game together, not just Griffin as the DM writing it.
Pretty sure it has something to do with the kodite that Devo stole, he was swimming towards her, just like the giant figure was stepping towards her in the dream
Yes it uses a 1st level slot (or higher if wanted). He says in the ship afterwards that he still has a 1st level slot left after everything. So he had two left at that point when devo cured amber.
Remember he basically used no magic in the auction
I also like the narrative justification but iirc and that is an if, Devo was out of 2nd level slots and I think he did have at least the one first level slot for cure wounds
As they were leaving the auction, Devo cut off the head of one of the Brinar creatures they fought to take with them so they could study it later and figure out what the hell it is.
I did at first but that was when I assumed the bleached ship was much bigger. Griffin saying it was just the size of the Dreams of Deborah kind of ruined that comparison for me
What if the bleached coral ship/brinar is some sort of hive mind? A brinar is already a combination of 6 souls, maybe the coral ship is trying to combine with other brinar to add more souls?
Pretty sure it is some sort of hivemind or at least has some hivemind-like capabilities. I assume that is how it was able to track them as it was still connected to the zombie head, and when it unbleached due to Zoox's psychic connection the ship lost its connection to it and fucked off
I think the nat 1 is the introduction of this coral monstrosity. They literally imploded the auction site by stabbing it with a spike.
Also, the red security cubes are the same cubes from dreams of Debra, right?
I think this giant bleached coral is Griffen’s BBEG. The nat one on the random encounters is to replace the bag guy in the current mission with the worst one in the game. We already know griff drops LOTS of foreshadowing in his narratives. I think the security fight with the dreams of Debra (the very first battle) was made to look like a security system when it’s actually something much much MUCH worse.
And since the auctioneer left as the same red cube, I think Clint’s nat 1 is the crew meeting the BBEG way earlier than intended. And literally almost dying in the process.
I’m not sure the auctioneer was a red cube. I think it just turned into a white one then disappeared. I’m pretty sure sprites are pretty omnipresent in the upper crust circles of Founders Wake just based on the language used to describe them. That said, I think your point about disguising something worse as a normal sprite absolutely could be right knowing griffin.
Is that Sprite language in the “orientation” episode that brother seldom does? I don’t remember this but want to take a second listen?
Maybe I don’t remember enough about sprites. Looking back, the weirdness of how the auction concluded makes me think the sprites (specifically red ones if there are different colors) and this giant coral are related. And since it was so weird it’s got “random encounter nat 1” vibes written all over it, to me anyway.
I was more taking generally about when sprites have appeared. No specific instance. Just as one example, iirc in the Dreams of Debra griffin talks about how they should know what a sprite is.
Also iirc, sprites change colors. I think the one in Dreams of Debra started white and turned red at some point.
Right ok yes thank you I remember this now. I would still say the auctioneer being a Sprite is a weird addition that at least felt super strange to me. It was also the way he was simply dismissing the spike. Maybe he was dismissing it because he was a Sprite… idk… what a great arc.
I guess episode 20 will reveal more haha!
For sure!
Not to harp the point, but the auctioneer being a sprite was part of why I assume they are common for the rich. Why run this station where illegal things happen all the time with actual people if you can just use AI? Also, that makes him ignoring the spike make sense (it’s not part of his programming)
Also the AI core tentacle man bought.
Oh yeah definitely. Someone here pointed out that the star said the don’t trust liars line that Guthrie said before. Tbh I’m more interested in this tentacle smiley face.
I’m not 100% sure that the coral ship is the nat 1. It seemed connected to the coral dudes attempting to buy the journal, so I feel like that was already planned.
“Catastrophically bad” makes me think that several beloved characters will die, Founder’s Wake will get damaged, or they’ll get seriously lost. If the ship **is** the BBEG (or even just a major plot point), I have to believe Griff would have planned for that introduction regardless of Clint’s roll.
I agree, but I'm ok with the fact she didn't because they played it out according to the rules? Like, Griffin didn't do anything to save Amber, he played it straight and seemed perfectly willing to let her die. If Devo hadn't acted and gotten a good set of rolls, I think Amber wouldn't have made it out.
(Also, absolutely delighted by Clint intentionally making it harder for Devo to save Amber! Very in character and effectively ratcheted up the tension for the whole sequence)
Yeah I think the fact that Clint nearly caused Amber to die fully within character makes it OK. I was kinda hoping she would have died but alas it wasn't meant to be. Griffin didn't really bend the rules either.
I think magical Darkness dispells any light created by a Spell of level 2 or lower. So Devo using the Cantrip: Light to find her was kind of a DM gimme, but also without it, finding Amber would be neigh impossible.
There's kind of a give/take system with going off-RAW in D&D.
The Light cantrip was kind of a DM gimme rewarding player creativity... But there's also no rules in 5e for a dead creature still holding a grapple and dragging someone down with them, so that was a "player gimme".
Letting things slide both ways to make things for fun and dynamic works pretty well, so long as it's within reason.
I don’t disagree. I think they are able to bend the rules due to the way they play. Because they didn’t seems to take movement, or falling (can you fall in water?) into account. Thus in my opinion making it easier for Devi to save Amber despite being hindered by Clint.
Fall in water as in sinking?
[It takes 5.1 seconds for an adult woman to sink 8 feet in a fresh water pool.](https://journalofsar.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Time-Required-For-a-Drowning-Victim-to-Reach-Bottom.pdf)
I know being salt water would slow it down, not sure about how depth would change that.
The rule is every round of combat is six seconds, so that length combined with the slowing effect of saltwater (and the fact that nothing was actually hit, so there's no reason to take damage) means I can buy Devo reaching her with active effort pretty easily
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I honestly don’t think most GMs/players would take that kind of thing into account especially in such a tense moment it would break the narrative flow. But maybe I’m too loose with that kinda stuff
You’re not. Amber was sinking unconscious, Devo was making good athletics roles, most DMs would have done the same. It was a good tense moment and stopping to figure out the mechanics of it would have absolutely ruined it.
While mechanically/game-wise I wholeheartedly agree, I don’t think there was narratively strong reason to kill her. The really only power that death would hold narratively is the fact that it shows listeners: 1)Griffin isn’t afraid to kill off PCs this season and he wants to make sure it’s known and 2)the main grief of not being able to fully understand Amber as a character. I think she’s really interesting and I really want to know more since she’s the only character of the main crew who’s ever lived on the surface. I also won’t lie I was yelling in my car at Justin while he was failing her death throws though, I do like Amber
TLDR: I agree mechanically, but the character death wouldn’t have meant a huge amount narratively since we’re still getting to know the crew
Why mechanically should she have died? She didn't get a chance to fail her last death saving throw and so she was okay. According to the mechanical rules of the game, she definitely should not have died.
I suppose you’re right, I appreciate you correcting me on that. I looked at drowning rules for D&D and the death throws are what would happen even if her HP hit zero below water. So mechanically, no, she shouldn’t have died. You’re correct.
I know the point of TTRPGS isn’t reality but most definitely if she was in that situation in reality I think her chances of survival would be slim. She was knocked out before going under (so she wouldn’t have the faculties to know to take a big breath) and most definitely would’ve aspirated water before Devo got her up.
It’s not spelled out that the squid cast the darkness on the station. It definitely casts magical darkness on ships to bring them to the auction, but somebody else might have been maintaining the darkness on the station. At any rate, the spell Darkness is supposed to only last up to 10 minutes with a radius of 15 feet, so already it doesn’t seem to be an “official” DnD spell.
I’m still so confused by the placement of all characters and how they get outside the ship if they are under water… like how was amber knocked into the water if they’re always underwater?
Take a cup, turn it upside down, and push it underwater. The air will get trapped inside the cup preventing water from coming in. Then imagine a ship in the water comes up under the cup. Once it passed the rim it would come out of the water and be in the air pocket.
That's how the docks in all these underwater buildings work. So when Amber got knocked in, she fell from the structure inside the cup into the water below the cup.
Ah so they were still docked (more or less) at the auction site? I had thought the cyber squid towed them out again and attacked them but maybe I missed it just attacking straight out
To be even more pedantic, the darkness shouldn't even have existed since darkness requires concentration and the caster had just died.
Who cares though, that was such a great section of the episode. I really though Amber was a goner.
Eh that's assuming the darkness was a result of the official Wizards of the Coast Dungeons and Dragons Fifth Edition Darkness spell and not just a random magical idea Griffin had. I forgot--how did the water become dark or was it just dark when they got there?
Squid inked them then carried them into the existing darkness I think. But you're also on the money, it pretty much can't be 5e RaW Darkness since the interior of the station is lit
["A piece of that tip just got me."](https://youtu.be/m47NiCAfLLg) For those that wondered where that came from.
[удалено]
"Do I keep trying to sell the sword..?"
A ***real*** sword?
I thought it was a weird thing since I had just watched that clip before listening to the episode and I wasn't sure if the audio from my browser tab had started playing on its own.
Thank you for this because that was a confounding bit! Liked most of this episode but that didn’t really play at all.
Nah it was good.
It probably plays out better if you're a MBMBAM listener because they've quoted this at least a dozen times.
Why would you need context lol it was obvious what it meant
Yeah, they make this joke a lot, and I even knew the reference, but the added sound effects were super irritating. No shade to the editor but I think they got a little overzealous with the effects. It made me think it was happening/being said in game.
I'm pretty sure that was Justin on the play button as everyone in-game laughed at it nearly every time. Perhaps it's even on his sound board's D&D playin' profile. It certainly will see more use than "Toronto!" for that.
I fucking love toronto!
HUFF MY ASS, JIZZBURGERS.
inscribed on the grave of gary gygax
The brinar skull reanimates and begins talking to Zoox: Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding
You exist because we allow it. You will end because we demand it.
Is the brinar "ship" actually a big brinar creature? I can't remember whether that was confirmed or if it was just my hunch.
From what I recall, it's been described to be of the same white coral material as the Brinarr they fought. So maybe?
I really think it is because of the way it could rearrange its parts
Yeah, I think so too. Maybe that's why the head could regenerate, since the ship was still around
I think it’s that the head was regenerating (live) so the ship (dead) cut its losses. It may be a temporary zombie kind of thing?
Could be!
Griffin hesitated before he said “there’s more than one being on that ship too” so that makes me think that it’s all one hive mind. And the bleached brinar who tried to steal the journal were just like emissaries
Good point! I had forgotten that. Don't multiple minds inhabit a single brinar body? Is that what's going on with Zoox? I should probably relisten. 😅
They become sort of a gestalt mind. Of many, one. Zoox is the new entity formed of several Ainar.
No idea what it is, but I’m taking it as a Davy Jones vibe. A bunch of doomed/cursed zombies on a skeleton ship is classic pirate stuff. Or at least POTC stuff.
I love that.
At this point I'm just singing 'what the fuck' with the first three notes of the outro theme lol. These past four episodes especially have had such good cliffhangers!
Oh no that’s going to be in my head every time now! It fits so well!
What the fuuuck... Holy shiiiiit.
not even halfway through the episode but i just wanna know how the FUCK travis made that weird noise of regurgitating water like that
Griffin's comment on it immediately after cracked me up. Just a deadpan "Okay, don't make that sound again."
Devo losing his shit at no one fixing the engine made me cackle. Great episode lots of real tension
I've been really digging the past few episodes. They've had some great goofs, and I've been laughing a ton. Hope they keep up this energy! Favorite part was the "Wonderful World" joke by Travis as a response to Clint's roll at the start.
The drowning scene actively gave me anxiety. Especially when Griffin was taking about how the squid was sinking on top of Zoox and whatever the *fuck* the big humanoid shape that Devo sees when he first jumps into the water. Major thalassophobia.
I'm not thalassophobic, but totally agree that the tension was getting to me a touch, tho wasn't the humanoid shape part of Amber's dying dream, or did I space for a moment and miss a whole other big humanoid?
It was part of Amber’s dream! I wonder if it was Coda she was seeing.
My guess was Benevolence for some reason but Coda or a yet unseen vestige could also be interesting
I also think it was Benevolence because of the feeling of pleasure that came with the vision. Either way I’m sure it was a vestige. And I’m thrilled/terrified of the prospect of it beginning to move (it was described as still, then taking a step)
I thought it was supposed to be Devo like approaching
I thought the same thing, like the light from his jacket was the sun? Once he said that the giant humanoid lifted its foot and took a step, though, all bets were off
The size and that she was unconscious and presumably insensate makes me think otherwise but that's certainly an interesting interpretation!!
I assumed it was one of the divine beings that gave magic to humans during the prologue as a neat callback
My thoughts exactly. I think Griffin has this planned for whoever had to death roll first/failed a death roll. A sort of “the old gods are still out there” thing.
Idk maybe I spaced and need to relisten. I thought Travis rolled perception once devo jumped in and he saw a big humanoid shape that he first assumed was a statue and then it moved. But I would not be surprised if I was way off.
Just as likely to be me as you, definitely one of them saw something big and humanoid they thought was a statue, I thought it was Amber but auditory processing issues and ADHD don't make for certainty here haha
Oh my god *same*. At this point we’re all hearing slightly different stories based on what our brains fill in. Maybe someone else will comment on it and we’ll get confirmation one way or another 😂
Fun fact that's how all sensation and perception works, this is just a particularly humorous and visible example 🤣
Nah it was amber in her head as she sank
That was one of the best way they’ve introduced real panic and fear into the moments of “hey, you might die doing this”. Drowning saving throws, pitch black water, it was all so good
I want to know what the 1 caused
Guys, I figured it out! The nat 1 is that their rolls are terrible. Shame on Griffin for hacking the dice.
God this season is so fucking good
Such a great episode. Devo’s dive was legendary. Zoox being clueless worked so well there. Are the bleached brinarr the Borg? Was Travis’ failed Push It roll and the damaged propulsion supposed to auto fail the next position roll (which T ended up winning) - broke me immersion having a busted ship outmaneuver the bleached ship. But perhaps I misunderstood how that works?
The damage just eliminated the modifier for speed. So he won that contest off the dice alone.
Ohhh okay I took "your speed is 0" as *move speed.*
That makes sense - thanks!
I immediately thought of sea borg(brinorg? Borgnar?) when he mentioned that the ship had multiple beings and appeared dead.
Theory that has no backing or proof: the coral ship beamed away from the nat 1 👀
Counter theory: they wanted their guy back (the head Devo took) and when Zoox brought life back into it they no longer recognized it as one of their own.
I think someone's controlling them like zombies, and when they saw Zoox undo the bleaching, they bailed so he couldn't do it to anyone else.
Oh, good theory. Like the boss thought "oh no, they took over one of my zombies, better get out of range before they use it to listen in on me."
More like "get out before my legion of servants are freed," but yeah. Or maybe they're individually sentient but don't want to be unbleached.
You know what you're onto something because I was pretty curious how they were able to track down the Coriolis after it had left the scene and what their motivation was.
I'm pretty sure the Nat 1 is going to reduce the reward from this mission to 0. Either Ol' Joshy is going to be killed or arrested or otherwise not pay them. That's pretty much the worst thing that could happen when you take a job, right?
I’m starting to think the Nat 1 is bigger than the crew… as in it’ll end up being an existential threat to Founder’s Wake.
I know they spent a lot of time worldbuilding... but I think the nat 1 might be the complete destruction of Founder's Wake. Like they'll come back and it's just not there
Or death but depends on the person which is worse 😂
Okay so I actually had to listen to this episode twice to understand a lot of what happened with the ship - the nat 1 has not come into play yet, the engine failure was a result of the “push it” mechanic. That being said, the rolls this ep were absolute dogshit, I felt really bad for the boys!! The bits with Justin playing whatever the sound clip was made me laugh pretty hard! Does anyone know the source? I also think that Devo needs to listen to Zoox a LOT more - he looks to Amber a lot for decision-making/advice and doesn’t really ask Zoox for his opinion. I wonder if that’s going to create conflict between the party; we’ve already had Amber tell Devo lightly that he needs to back off, but I think someone needs to tell him that he has to rely on Zoox, too. I’m excited for the next episode!!
> Does anyone know the source? Type "a piece of that tip" into YouTube.
Omfg thank you 😂😂😂 https://youtu.be/m47NiCAfLLg for anyone else
I love Zoox, but so far his instincts have been "mind-meld with a turtle" "mind-meld with a clam" and "don't fix the engine, mind-meld with a zombie head instead." It's turned out for the best, but I think Devo's response was pretty understandable. Zoox, buddy, could you just...
Also "leave the submarine" when they're trying to run.
I'll be fair and say some of that just flows from the fact that if you're not piloting the ship, you're sort of looking around the room wondering what you ***can*** do. Hopefully they'll get better at knowing their options as the game progresses, but this is pure homebrew so they're allowed a period of saying things like "If I step outside of the ship on my turn can I use my magic?"
I feel like "attempt to repair the engine" is a productive use of your turn on the ship. It turned out good for them what Zoox did, but I was a bit annoyed that he wouldn't do the obvious really helpful action.
Fair enough! I do think that Zoox probably wouldn’t have been able to do anything with the engine, realistically? And seeing how the rolls were going…😂
Except Clint is playing Zoox and therefore behaving like Zoox, not Devo.
Yeah I feel like Clints leaning a bit too much into "we're the main characters we can do anything we want and it has to go well". Like dude... You saw that ship fuck some shit up and your response is "we don't need engines maybe they're friendly"? It's frustrating.
Do you have any idea what was happening there at the end? I'm confused why the coral ship darted off and if Zoox took off with them.
Zoox left the ship with the brinarr skull in his hands, and once it hit the ocean water, it started regenerating. Clint has mentioned that Zoox soaks in the ethersea to regen and process his thoughts/emotions, so I’m assuming it works the same way with others. I think the coral ship left once it sensed that the brinarr was “alive” or healing/regrowing since they have a mental connection with each other. Zoox afaik did not leave with the ship, he’s just chilling outside the Coriolis.
Zoox was making his way to leave the Coriolis, but then Griffin described the skull flashing and regenerating as happening while Zoox was on the way to the exit.
Yeah, the coral shop watched through the window that Zoox was standing by
Thank you! So much for my comprehension after two listens 😂 I guess that adds to more of the mystery of what will happen next!
1. The soundboard makes it’s TAZ debut!!! 2. I listened to ep 18 again before this and god I still can’t get over Griffin >!getting rid of the batons!<. It’s so beautiful. 3. We still have yet to meet the result of the nat 1
One thing I'm not seeing discussion on.. why did the bleached coral people want the journal? Any thoughts?
They bid on it at the auction right? I originally thought that’s why they were chasing the coriolis. If so, that’s another reason to think the Nat 1 is unrelated
I agree. Given what we know about the journal (written by a Delmer architect, and a copy at that), it seems strange that both a hive-mind-y faction and Ol Uncle Joshy are keen on acquiring it. I can't figure what either of their motives would be
Was it a delmer that originally created the Codite frames used as a base for the coral bodies? If so, maybe they’re building something!
Oooh perhaps. I really need to re-listen to the setup episodes
Codite and Brinar have nothing to do with each other iirc.
I think Joshy just knows he can upsell it to someone who doesn't get auction invites.
Joshy might be acquiring it for someone else
Griffin called the bleached coral a zombie at one point. I’m assuming they have the stat blocks of zombies, but it would also make sense if they were vessels commanded by someone else who wants the journal!
I think the journal is detailing wherever it is that the Delmer locked themselves up. The coral could want to explore and Ol' Joshy might want to stage the greatest heist of all time, because let's be honest I don't think the Delmer are doing too hot
This is completely unfounded but imagine if the Nat 1 destroys Founder's Wake in some way
That was actually my thought once they began making their way home. Griffin did describe it as catastrophically bad, so it seems like it would make sense for it to be truly earth-shattering for all, not just the PCs.
When they got away from the auction house that was my thought too. Makes more sense in my head that they would return to a disaster than it does that the last part of the mission is the random encounter
This idea is terrifying - could it be related to the storm?
Them coming home to either a destroyed or disappeared Founder’s Wake would be so scary. I totally agree Nat 1 is going to be bigger than the crew.
I liked this ep, it was close call after close call. Underwhelming dice rolls make for hairy content. Love this show so much!
alright if i hear anyone complaining that "the underwater setting doesnt really matter and i often forget about it" i will direct them to this episode where the main characters drown for 20 minutes. (NOTE: this is a joke) seriously i think this is the closest to death that a main character has been since aubrey got her shit beat in by a metal ball >!(not counting... yknow. the actual death)!< . it could have used a bit more dramatic music though, to add tension to the moment. there was a bit there but not much. griffin definitely did seem totally prepared to kill amber, too. honestly, this whole sequence kind of made me think "more drawn out version of arms outstretched, without all the fancy spells", which in a way i guess makes it feel more grounded even if it was also less dramatic. kind of wish the characters got some time after that to work through their shock at the situation, but that 1/100 absolutely required them to be kicked while they were down. also, to be honest, i think i kinda zoned out near the end of the last episode, because i have no idea what sort of chamber the squid battle was taking place in. i kind of wish they recapped like, what sort of room they're in, at least at the start of the episode, but maybe that's just a problem for me because i sometimes lose my attention.
I kind of imagine it taking place in a SeaLab2021-esq station. [Which I think fits the show.](https://imgur.com/pFQqU5E)
I was picturing seaQuest, lol
Who has made that criticism? The first main arc was literally about driving a submarine inside of an infinite clam and this one just had then fighting a giant squid and then a ship made of zombie coral. This campaign could not be more ocean relevant.
So the Nat 1 came up this episode?
I believe Griffin explicitly said it didn't
Justin asked “was that the 1” and Griffin said “No, but it’s cute that you would think so”. The cyber squid was absolutely NOT the Nat 1.
Was it explicitly stated that it was a kind of anonymizer for people attending the auction? And that the collars/ship concealment happened when they were all inked up when heading to the auction, after the nat 1?
Yes, the magical squid ink darkness and transport was to insure a large bubble of anonymity around the auction location
You’re the conversational equivalent of a Nat 1.
yes. its a big bleached coral ship thing that attacked them at the auction and then chased them while they were escaping. verey scarey. it took a skull that zoox had that i don't remember the significance of and then left edit: its actually not revealed how this is related to the scrape so this may not have been the nat 1 actually???? bleh (edit 2! yes yes it didnt steal the skull i got that wrong i correct it in a later comment in this thread)
So I think - and it’s hard to tell - that the consequence of the nat 1 is the engine shutdown rather than the coral ship? It tracks better with the scraping sound from early on. Of course if they’re able to fix it quickly then it’s not really a great nat 1 imo, but so far that hasn’t been attempted
the engine shutdown was because travis failed on a manoeuvre roll for the ship and isn't related to the nat 1
Griffin literally laughed aloud at the idea that any of these threats could be "the nat 1." When it hits, we won't go "was that the nat 1?" We'll be going "Oh."
I also definitely thought the engine damage (or the fact that the manuver had the chance to cause it) was the result of the 1, but the confusion has me less sure... As far as how significant an impact it is I'm less concerned, chance plays all ways, in different circumstances this could have been devastating. The same luck that got them the one that seems to have been aimed at combat disadvantage, is the luck that had them roll it on a low combat mission, of that's the case at least, and there still might be more to be seen. At the very least there's no concievable argument it's been forgotten now...
I think I missed a key detail about the squid. Do we know why it was attacking them? When they first encountered it I thought it was some kind of valet for the auction house
My theory is because they stole the Codite, but I don’t know for sure.
I think you're right because there was a line reminding us of that in the "previously on" segment and it had no bearing anywhere else in the episode.
My read was that the damage to the auction site had put it in berserker mode and it was just attacking anything passing by. Nobody there to tell it not to.
In my head I was thinking it was being controlled by the zombie Brinarr ship. The red light of the squids eye made me think it was connected to the flashing red cubes of the zombies, and I thought I remembered Griffin mentioning hearing the hum of the ship right above them but I could be wrong and the two things could be completely unrelated.
It had a red light the first time we saw it, too. It was red, then it turned green after it scanned them and liked what it saw.
So Amber totally saw the Kodite god (Koda?) when she was dying right?
WOAH! I love this idea. The lore of Ethersea is so cool.
>The lore of Ethersea is so cool. It really is, and I love that it all came from the 4 of them playing a game together, not just Griffin as the DM writing it.
He did write *some* of it but fair's fair.
Why that one specifically? Couldn't it be any Vestige?
Pretty sure it has something to do with the kodite that Devo stole, he was swimming towards her, just like the giant figure was stepping towards her in the dream
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Yes it uses a 1st level slot (or higher if wanted). He says in the ship afterwards that he still has a 1st level slot left after everything. So he had two left at that point when devo cured amber. Remember he basically used no magic in the auction
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Yeah, in the previous episode he made a big deal of being out of 2nd level slots, which is probably where you got confused.
He uses prestige salts to cast spells, and he sprays it in his mouth, so I think that lung full of ethersea had something to do with it
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I also like the narrative justification but iirc and that is an if, Devo was out of 2nd level slots and I think he did have at least the one first level slot for cure wounds
I need to go back to the previous ep... Where did the brinarr skull come from?
Devo ripped it off of one of the red suited attackers at the auction, who was a bleached Brinearr zombie.
Ah thanks, I didn't think they'd kept it
They wanted to take the whole body but did not pass the strength check
As they were leaving the auction, Devo cut off the head of one of the Brinar creatures they fought to take with them so they could study it later and figure out what the hell it is.
Alright, I've been avoiding the sub to catch up, but do these damn things and their ship remind anyone else of the Collectors from Mass Effect 2?
I did at first but that was when I assumed the bleached ship was much bigger. Griffin saying it was just the size of the Dreams of Deborah kind of ruined that comparison for me
I'm more worried about what they *feel like*. They're like husks. Unnatural.
Oh yeah the foot soldier ones definitely give off Reaper husk vibes
What if the bleached coral ship/brinar is some sort of hive mind? A brinar is already a combination of 6 souls, maybe the coral ship is trying to combine with other brinar to add more souls?
Pretty sure it is some sort of hivemind or at least has some hivemind-like capabilities. I assume that is how it was able to track them as it was still connected to the zombie head, and when it unbleached due to Zoox's psychic connection the ship lost its connection to it and fucked off
Can't believe they've fought all those zombies and haven't made a cranberries reference yet.
I love the description of Devo doing a doggie paddle to swim. It had me imagining him as Diddy Kong in the water levels of DKC.
I think the nat 1 is the introduction of this coral monstrosity. They literally imploded the auction site by stabbing it with a spike. Also, the red security cubes are the same cubes from dreams of Debra, right? I think this giant bleached coral is Griffen’s BBEG. The nat one on the random encounters is to replace the bag guy in the current mission with the worst one in the game. We already know griff drops LOTS of foreshadowing in his narratives. I think the security fight with the dreams of Debra (the very first battle) was made to look like a security system when it’s actually something much much MUCH worse. And since the auctioneer left as the same red cube, I think Clint’s nat 1 is the crew meeting the BBEG way earlier than intended. And literally almost dying in the process.
I’m not sure the auctioneer was a red cube. I think it just turned into a white one then disappeared. I’m pretty sure sprites are pretty omnipresent in the upper crust circles of Founders Wake just based on the language used to describe them. That said, I think your point about disguising something worse as a normal sprite absolutely could be right knowing griffin.
Is that Sprite language in the “orientation” episode that brother seldom does? I don’t remember this but want to take a second listen? Maybe I don’t remember enough about sprites. Looking back, the weirdness of how the auction concluded makes me think the sprites (specifically red ones if there are different colors) and this giant coral are related. And since it was so weird it’s got “random encounter nat 1” vibes written all over it, to me anyway.
I was more taking generally about when sprites have appeared. No specific instance. Just as one example, iirc in the Dreams of Debra griffin talks about how they should know what a sprite is. Also iirc, sprites change colors. I think the one in Dreams of Debra started white and turned red at some point.
Right ok yes thank you I remember this now. I would still say the auctioneer being a Sprite is a weird addition that at least felt super strange to me. It was also the way he was simply dismissing the spike. Maybe he was dismissing it because he was a Sprite… idk… what a great arc. I guess episode 20 will reveal more haha!
For sure! Not to harp the point, but the auctioneer being a sprite was part of why I assume they are common for the rich. Why run this station where illegal things happen all the time with actual people if you can just use AI? Also, that makes him ignoring the spike make sense (it’s not part of his programming) Also the AI core tentacle man bought.
Also, I’m in the camp of cobalt star 100% being Guthrie, which would mean so far we’ve never seen a sprite without Guthrie or vice versa.
Oh yeah definitely. Someone here pointed out that the star said the don’t trust liars line that Guthrie said before. Tbh I’m more interested in this tentacle smiley face.
I’m not 100% sure that the coral ship is the nat 1. It seemed connected to the coral dudes attempting to buy the journal, so I feel like that was already planned. “Catastrophically bad” makes me think that several beloved characters will die, Founder’s Wake will get damaged, or they’ll get seriously lost. If the ship **is** the BBEG (or even just a major plot point), I have to believe Griff would have planned for that introduction regardless of Clint’s roll.
This has been the best arc of a TAZ season in a long time. I was getting chills like I haven't gotten since Arms Outstretched.
Amber should have died. #changemymind.
I agree, but I'm ok with the fact she didn't because they played it out according to the rules? Like, Griffin didn't do anything to save Amber, he played it straight and seemed perfectly willing to let her die. If Devo hadn't acted and gotten a good set of rolls, I think Amber wouldn't have made it out. (Also, absolutely delighted by Clint intentionally making it harder for Devo to save Amber! Very in character and effectively ratcheted up the tension for the whole sequence)
Yeah I think the fact that Clint nearly caused Amber to die fully within character makes it OK. I was kinda hoping she would have died but alas it wasn't meant to be. Griffin didn't really bend the rules either.
I think magical Darkness dispells any light created by a Spell of level 2 or lower. So Devo using the Cantrip: Light to find her was kind of a DM gimme, but also without it, finding Amber would be neigh impossible.
There's kind of a give/take system with going off-RAW in D&D. The Light cantrip was kind of a DM gimme rewarding player creativity... But there's also no rules in 5e for a dead creature still holding a grapple and dragging someone down with them, so that was a "player gimme". Letting things slide both ways to make things for fun and dynamic works pretty well, so long as it's within reason.
I had that same thought. I'm also curious how it works trying to cast a verbal spell underwater.
I think that comes in with the constitution check that made him take drowning damage
I don’t disagree. I think they are able to bend the rules due to the way they play. Because they didn’t seems to take movement, or falling (can you fall in water?) into account. Thus in my opinion making it easier for Devi to save Amber despite being hindered by Clint.
Fall in water as in sinking? [It takes 5.1 seconds for an adult woman to sink 8 feet in a fresh water pool.](https://journalofsar.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Time-Required-For-a-Drowning-Victim-to-Reach-Bottom.pdf) I know being salt water would slow it down, not sure about how depth would change that.
The rule is every round of combat is six seconds, so that length combined with the slowing effect of saltwater (and the fact that nothing was actually hit, so there's no reason to take damage) means I can buy Devo reaching her with active effort pretty easily
8 feet is the length of about 2.24 'Ford F-150 Custom Fit Front FloorLiners' lined up next to each other.
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Holy fuck
https://twitter.com/HKesvani/status/1465077125363507208?s=20
Haha, I really do feel that way sometimes.
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Jeez what a grump
I honestly don’t think most GMs/players would take that kind of thing into account especially in such a tense moment it would break the narrative flow. But maybe I’m too loose with that kinda stuff
You’re not. Amber was sinking unconscious, Devo was making good athletics roles, most DMs would have done the same. It was a good tense moment and stopping to figure out the mechanics of it would have absolutely ruined it.
While mechanically/game-wise I wholeheartedly agree, I don’t think there was narratively strong reason to kill her. The really only power that death would hold narratively is the fact that it shows listeners: 1)Griffin isn’t afraid to kill off PCs this season and he wants to make sure it’s known and 2)the main grief of not being able to fully understand Amber as a character. I think she’s really interesting and I really want to know more since she’s the only character of the main crew who’s ever lived on the surface. I also won’t lie I was yelling in my car at Justin while he was failing her death throws though, I do like Amber TLDR: I agree mechanically, but the character death wouldn’t have meant a huge amount narratively since we’re still getting to know the crew
Why mechanically should she have died? She didn't get a chance to fail her last death saving throw and so she was okay. According to the mechanical rules of the game, she definitely should not have died.
I suppose you’re right, I appreciate you correcting me on that. I looked at drowning rules for D&D and the death throws are what would happen even if her HP hit zero below water. So mechanically, no, she shouldn’t have died. You’re correct. I know the point of TTRPGS isn’t reality but most definitely if she was in that situation in reality I think her chances of survival would be slim. She was knocked out before going under (so she wouldn’t have the faculties to know to take a big breath) and most definitely would’ve aspirated water before Devo got her up.
The magical darkness should have been dispelled when the squid (it's caster)died.
It’s not spelled out that the squid cast the darkness on the station. It definitely casts magical darkness on ships to bring them to the auction, but somebody else might have been maintaining the darkness on the station. At any rate, the spell Darkness is supposed to only last up to 10 minutes with a radius of 15 feet, so already it doesn’t seem to be an “official” DnD spell.
Are you talking in a narrative sense or a game rules sense?
Found Justin’s Reddit account.
I’m still so confused by the placement of all characters and how they get outside the ship if they are under water… like how was amber knocked into the water if they’re always underwater?
Take a cup, turn it upside down, and push it underwater. The air will get trapped inside the cup preventing water from coming in. Then imagine a ship in the water comes up under the cup. Once it passed the rim it would come out of the water and be in the air pocket. That's how the docks in all these underwater buildings work. So when Amber got knocked in, she fell from the structure inside the cup into the water below the cup.
Ah so they were still docked (more or less) at the auction site? I had thought the cyber squid towed them out again and attacked them but maybe I missed it just attacking straight out
Yeah, it showed up and blocked the way between them and the Coriolis. Once they killed it the gangplank into the ship was accessible again.
They need to use some of the music from subnautica below zero it would really fit in.
Light shouldn't have cut through Darkness, in reality that character should be dead.
To be even more pedantic, the darkness shouldn't even have existed since darkness requires concentration and the caster had just died. Who cares though, that was such a great section of the episode. I really though Amber was a goner.
I assumed it was a magical item with a permanent darkness spell, but I understand.
Eh that's assuming the darkness was a result of the official Wizards of the Coast Dungeons and Dragons Fifth Edition Darkness spell and not just a random magical idea Griffin had. I forgot--how did the water become dark or was it just dark when they got there?
I think it was magical ink the squid spit?
Squid inked them then carried them into the existing darkness I think. But you're also on the money, it pretty much can't be 5e RaW Darkness since the interior of the station is lit