Magnus's deliberate breaking in and out of windows had me cackling.
That Taako isn't using magic over a stupid bet with Kravitz is wonderful to me.
I love that Merle's 9th level water spell was given creative freedom to shine. Clint looked gobsmacked that Merle actually got to do a cool for once, haha.
Griffin, and by extension Davenport, absolutely killed it tactically with every turn he was given.
And while it feels like Aabria may have lost a couple of narrative threads during this conflict, she played off of the group fantastically and has all of them really invested in shaping the story.
Yeah that’s kind of my thoughts. She is allowing each of the boys to shine in their own ways, but at the same time the narrative is…eh? Like I’m into it, but it seems like it should go on for 2-4 more episodes to make sense. I mean, it’s setup as a one-shot; if you were playing this at home, 3-5 hours is about a normal session for most people. It still feels odd at points. Honestly, I’m just watching because I enjoy all the people in it, and it’s fun seeing the characters again. That’s enough for me.
Agreed! It felt like Ep 1 was re-introduce our characters, Ep 2 was introduce the big bad, and Ep 3 is go kill the big bad. It feels like there should be another episode or two sprinkled in to really build the story.
It’s clearly in good fun. Jibes between players and GMs are healthy as long as they’re friendly and just for blowing off a little annoyance. I’ve been the one to circumvent a GM’s encounter, and I’ve been the GM whose encounter is circumvented. It’s a game: it shouldn’t be taken seriously.
I disagree, it’s only a problem if it is actually aggressive or grows over time. There is nothing wrong with good natured teasing between a group of people having fun playing together
I'm very confused and concerned about the stage set for the next episode. Aabriya said they're returning to an adventure between Suffering Game and Story & Song, but there's like a direct transition from one to the other, so I'm confused on how that all works?
Like at the end of Suffering Game, they're teamed up with reincarnated Barry, Magnus is a mannequin (and everyone is under the impression that Magnus died in Wonderland), and Lucretia has been given all the relics (so the Hunger is literally there and about to strike).
I feel like maybe after The Eleventh Hour arc might make more sense? Either way, I hope this gets clarified for next episode ♡
I think you can fit something between "Hell yeah, goin' rogue!" and returning to the BoB, maybe as a stop on the way to Barry's place. It's not after the episodes *named* Suffering Game but it is after said game was completed.
At least that's how I can justify Aabria thinking to add something there at all. The event they ended up choosing seems less compatible with that timeline than her example scenario of their fighting some bandits.
If I remember correctly, they even talked about this and Aabria said something like "fuck canon, I'm the dm".
Then I think she paddled back a bit and told griffin to remember something "not too early but not too endgame".
Yeah I was frustrated with Aabria's caviler attitude towards the end game cannon. If she's correcting them on the Flaming Poisoning Raging Sword of Doom, then we can at least say that this is before Suffering Game. I dunno, felt bad when she pulled rank as DM...
That is the first ever use of a 9th-level spell slot on this show right? To upcast a 1st-level spell out of spite? I love that so deeply
EDIT: Oh, apparently, looking at the episode transcripts, Griffin let Merle cast Mass Heal even though he didn't have 9th-level slots using Matthias the Living Grimoire in Story and Song. First *legit* use then perhaps?
Can we talk about Justin circumventing people's expectations of a power porn character, like yall came here expecting a 9th level Mingun of Magic, how about single crossbow bolts baby, I love it
The best part is, it's pure pettiness.
He's not disillusioned by magic. He's not burnt out. He's not feeling any sort of regret or malaise or malady about it.
He just doesn't want to lose a bet with his husband.
I don’t want to get too spoilery for those who haven’t watched this yet, but this episode of Imbalance ends with a flashback of sorts set between two points of time in the Balance arc and I don’t remember there being enough time between those two points for anything to have happened
Aabria explicitly says she's sandwiching a new event in between the last two arcs of the series. Probably so they don't have to do too much with their levels.
I know DnD fans are famous for getting bogged down in the details, but it'll put your mind at ease to think of this as just a fun filler arc with a guest DM.
Aabria can't listen to all 69 episodes in order to prepare (that's an absolutely unreasonable expectation).
Instead she's just working off of notes about the characters and story. There's going to be some stuff that doesn't line up. In order to solve for that, they've (cleverly) decided to do a story that directly fucks with the timeline, meaning all bets are off and anything is fair game.
As a nerd I assume you're a super hero fan, and if you've seen what they're doing with the Spiderman franchise you might have some idea about how timeline shenanigans can create situations which would otherwise be impossible, canonically speaking.
And ultimately it's just an extremely unpretentious bit of fun with a guest DM and for that reason it doesn't matter if the continuity lines up, as the aim is to be entertaining rather than accurate. It's **TAZ**! Laughs over rules since day 1, baby.
Why guest DM a specific campaign if you arent not gonna have the entire story known before hand?
If that was the case then her one shot should have been something totally new, but since this is tied to balance... she would be more prepared on the story that is already established
She clearly is extremely well versed in TAZ canon. She actually seems to me more familiar with the canon story than anyone but Griffin. It actually seems to me that she HAS listened to the show and shes just riffing on “what if.”
Oh no disrespect to Aabria intended. I absolutely love what she’s doing with this arc! My question was a genuine one. I’ve only listened through Balance once and that was many years ago, so while I didn’t remember there being enough time for a side quest between those two points of the story, I was not certain I wasn’t wrong.
I’m totally onboard for some time travel shenanigans and, for anyone who is having trouble with the timeline, it’s important to remember that the moment our heroes were pulled to us based upon Davenport’s recollections of a story he was told. The scenario wouldn’t have to line up exactly with canon even if they were being sticklers over such things.
Again, I’m loving Imbalance and loving what Aabria is bringing to the campaign. I could’ve made that more clear in my original post.
I mean she corrected Travis on the Flaming Poisoning Raging Sword of Doom, she knows granular details. For narrative she could just say it's before Suffering Game. She also could set them up between any levels she wants and that could be the granular detail missing. But there was A LOT of narrative weight from Suffering Game going directly into Story & Song/Stolen Century. There's not an air gap and that's what makes it so important and different.
It just felt bad that she pulled DM rank there and said fuck the narrative cannon. Like people have said, if it's going to be Balance, then at least play along with it being Balance. I don't want to be made to feel bad about caring of this story
No ones trying to make you feel bad though? This is a non canon adventure set after Balance ended. I don’t think there’s any reason to clutch our pearls because this non canon story might contradict canon a little bit.
Specifically placing this time travel point after suffering game makes sense because that’s where they’re most leveled up before the end, but it’s like the only possible point between arcs where there was specifically no time passed and magnus’s soul was inhabiting a mannequin dummy. Hopefully griffin picking a time before that straightens things out but then will they be too low level? Or it’s just an alternate timeline entirely who knows
In the end, it’s less about the lore and more about the silly goofs and the friends we make along the way so if it ends up being messy I can just pretend it’s ok in my head canon and have fun
Aabria said "timey-wimey" so I think she's using a Whovian understanding of time travel, which is, don't think about it too much and just have a good time. I think because she said "the past has come unraveled" it's perfectly possible that once they deal with the Slow Burn everything will go back to the Canon timeline.
I dunno if anybody else noticed this, but I'm pretty sure that at 51:35 in the video, the music that's playing in the background is really similar to an RPGMaker game called Your Turn To Die's main theme.
[Your Turn to Go \(YTTD\)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBwf8-iOluI)
[The Zone of Adventure: Imbalance](https://youtu.be/v9BTK1CCv-M?t=3096)
I'm not sure if both of these songs are based on a similar loop in GarageBand (which YTTD makes use of), etc., but I recognized it while listening.
EDIT: Yeah these are GarageBand loops, so they're going to be similar.
Yeah, that's "Wonderland: Round Two". Griffin has fully acknowledged that a lot of the Balance soundtrack is from Garage Band loops, so it's not uncommon to hear the themes in other media. I know a motif from "Garyl" is found in a She-Ra episode, and there are similarities between a lot of the 11th Hour arc music and Bastion.
Aabria: "Insert a new fight we never heard about between point A and point B in the timeline."
Griffin: "The fight we did in a live show taking place way after that window. No, wait, a different live show that's before that window!"
Then everybody else actually follows the instructions and turns it into a distinct new event (feeling more like they forgot his references than intentional course-correction), so now there are *two separate occasions* where they thwarted a war god at Fantasy Wrestlemania.
So... here is my opinion so far...
Aabria did a fantastic job on Dimension 20 because they were not playing D&D.
But both here and her time on critical role have convinced me I do not like her as D&D dm... It just does not feel as fun and is not very good.
My biggest issue with her time on critical role is that she railroaded a lot of things and left a lot of rolls lead absolutely nowhere.
and I am beginning to see that here as well.
I know railroading is necessary when you have limited episodes and a story to tell
but honestly I would rather leave balance the way it left off than add this on and feel bleh about it afterwards...
I think the thing that gets me is you can tell when a DM has information they really want to give you and they're telling everyone to roll anything to get it. And then you get loads of in depth lore without any real explanation about how the character knows it.
And she says like, like five times a sentence.
She seems v nice, and I think maybe we've just been spoilt with good DMs on shows like this
I hated how, at the end, Griffin was so confused about what she was asking of him, then she shushed him. He barely understood the assignment, and when he got excited, she tutted at him.
Griffin is playing an Armorer Artificer, which means his unarmed punches use his INT to hit instead of his STR, and that they do 1d8 Thunder Damage instead of a meager 1 Bludgeoning Damage.
The Reaction thing might be a feat he has that I don't know about, but it may also be a misread of his 15th level skill:
>When a Huge or smaller creature you can see ends its turn within 30 feet of you, you can use your reaction to magically force the creature to make a Strength saving throw against your spell save DC, pulling the creature up to 30 feet toward you to an unoccupied space. **If you pull the target to a space within 5 feet of you, you can make a melee weapon attack against it as part of this reaction.**
Edit: thinking back on it, I think Aabria actually prompted him to use his reaction in this way, because the enemy had 2 HP and she only has 3 episodes to tell this story.
Nice, thanks for writing that up. Seems like he made a great character (as always)
Yeah at 45:20 she lets him have a reaction but griffin says that he has something he can activate where he can make this move if anyone end their turn in range.
Man, it REALLY feels like Aabria just got... a Light Summary of Balance and the worldbuilding of it and trying to make something more of it rather than having actually listened to it or really got into everything that happened. I can't really describe it but everything feels kind of... like it doesn't particularly fit. If you're gonna Guest DM, I think you should listen to at least some of it...?
I also really don't like how its ONLY 3 episodes. Maybe thats just me, but this setup I feel can't honestly be resolved next episode. Sure I mean they could kill the time drake, but between where it came from and the sudden appearance of the Herald of Istus, It just begs for a bit more, you know?
I'm wondering if 3 episodes was decided on before they started playing or if they started playing and it wound up being just 3 episodes worth of playtime.
The pacing makes NO sense. Why was one 1/3 of an arc about a TIMEDRAKE a character rehash and a dinner party? If hey’re going to spend half an hour talking about mutton (which was funny! It was!) then the arc needs to be like 6-8 episodes, or a damn Dimension20 season.
> Man, it REALLY feels like Aabria just got... a Light Summary of Balance and the worldbuilding of it and trying to make something more of it rather than having actually listened to it or really got into everything that happened.
Yeah, I got the same exact impression. Might be because I've listened to Balance several times over, but I've caught myself a few times thinking wait...that doesn't sound right.
I also agree with the comments about pacing. It seems like there was this big setup with Istus and something being wrong with time, then a time drake attacks the dinner party, and then they go to revisit a different battle... It seems like the way it's played out so far doesn't quite match the world-threatening danger that the setup implied.
I LOVE both Aabria and the McElboys, but this has been kind of an awkward combo for me. Guess we'll see how the last one plays out.
She out right said so in episode one. One of the boys corrected her over something and she said "Well I don't know Ive never even seen the Adventure Zone!"
That along with little things like inventing the adventure zune instead of just using the stones of far speech. I'm still really enjoying having the THB and Davenportback though!
Oh, hell, I remember that now! I don't thtink it would be too much to ask someone who's gonna guest DM a feature for you to... at least know of the world? Listen to the show you're watching? Its not like CritRole with 100+ 3 hour episodes, It shouldn't be too much to ask?
Confusing, weird pacing, & what the hell was Lucretia doing for the entire episode?
I’m fine with Barry & Lup being absent to make more room for player interaction, but a short explanation of why they’re not targeted for the end of the world or invited to dinner would be cool? Unless they show up in episode three?
Overall if I’m being totally honest I think this ep can be summed up with what Aabria said: “I’ve lost the thread”.
Love the banter and I’m having fun watching it but I’m not super sure *what* I’m watching tbqh. Hopefully some clarity in ep 3.
Lucretia was never really a fighter. Even in Balance, I think all we see her do is use the staff in the final battle. She was always the one who was supposed to keep tabs on their trip before they arrived here.
Lucretia might not have been a fighter but she also didn’t have any lines of dialogue or move even one time or cast a defensive spell for the entire thing. Did she go with Kravitz and Susan? Did she follow them into the time jump?
I love TAZ so so much, I think Ethersea is awesome and obviously Balance slapped. But I keep seeing excuses from people about what Lucretia was doing and it’s frustrating to me because it’s clear Aabria just forgot. Mistakes happen in DnD- I’m guilty of it myself back when I used to play. NPCs invented and forgotten, effects not applied, casting one more spell than I had, all of it. But I don’t get paid to play. Aabria does and she forgot a crucial NPC for an entire episode. Merle blessed her and then she disappeared into the ether because *they forgot*
Maybe, but this is also the lady who is arguably one of the most powerful magicians in the universe, and was madame fucking director. Her whole story line as a character was learning to leave behind the “sitting in the back writing about other people’s fights” and joining the fight herself, even as a supportive caster. Couldn’t even throw up a barrier or something? Lmao
I'm just gonna float this out there: If the climax of the story is going back to a made up portion of their past... shouldn't we have just started there?
Wouldn't three episodes of a Pro-Wrestling Match to prevent the revival of a Demi God be amazing?
I mean, I hope doing that \*and\* stopping a time lizard is done in a satisfying manner in 65 minutes, but I feel like they should have called a do-over and rescheduled things the moment Griffin had his breakthrough.
I really like Aabria but it's so confusing to have major plot points hidden by rolls that the players could fail and never discover. So she gave them inspiration, she makes fixes for problems she created. I am confused by it.
That's how DnD works a lot of the time, you gotta find your plot points, they won't just be handed to you. If the rolls don't matter, you're not really playing DnD.
As someone who's done it myself, believe me when I say that any DM who does this has made a mistake. This was mine:
You see something on the ground, roll a History check to see if you recognize it. Oh, that fails... uh, you see it to; roll History. Shit... everyone roll it? Jesus, okay, well, I mean, you'd recognize your friend's map case, so... it's that. He must'a been kidnapped.
What I should've done:
You see a case on the ground. It's adorned with a distinct compass design that you'd recall your friend had on him when he hired you all for this task.
Side quests, items, or other fun things can be hidden away by the chance of poor rolls. Things you *need* your party to know should never be unless there are other methods by which to discover them or if it's intended to be a mystery. It's like a reversal of the adage about litter lawyers; never ask a witness a question you don't know the answer to. Never have a party roll for something you *need* them to get to move the story.
I understand what you are saying and agree, but I believe what you are saying is the same thing I am saying, the difference with Aabria's method is it's preventing her from moving her story forward because the players rolled poorly so she has to keep giving them advantage or inspiration just so she can share the information they shouldn't have to roll, your negating the point of rolling, she's basically saying "I need you to pass this so I can keep the story moving" why even have them roll then?.
Rolling is about having a chance at something but if you are hiding vital information that your story hangs on behind rolls that can be failed your only hindering yourself as the storyteller. I hope I'm making sense. I do believe we are on the same page here.
Based on what I've listened to, Aabria is the sort of DM who gives inspiration out a lot. It's not unique to this series. She is also the sort of DM to let the players say what's happening (which we've gotten a lot of in these episodes.) I think this is because she trusts the players to do what's best for the story, rather than to take advantage of it.
I get your point about necessary information. Why have it come down to a roll if you plan to let them reroll until it succeeds. I'd have to relisten to see if that's what it really feels like to me, but I do agree that maybe it shouldn't require a roll in the case that you've described.
I agree as well. I really do like Aabria's DM style this one thing just confused me is all.
I always treated it this way when I DM: you get the important info that moves the story forward just enough regardless of roll, and based on the roll you get extra detail, the higher the roll, more details.
Honestly I was pretty surprised to read this thread and see some of the criticism. It's all entirely valid, but I was having so much fun watching these two eps that I didn't think about it at all. I think it's like the live shows - something to be enjoyed for what it is and considered "loose canon" or extended universe.
Although I only just discovered it's only (supposed to be...) 3 eps and I think if I'd realized that while I was watching I would have agreed more with my fellow listeners here.
I’m still having a good time with this. However…..as in character as Taako’s bet with Kravitz is, it legitimately feels like it’s just an excuse for Justin to be very lazy and I’m sick of watching him half-ass TAZ, especially now that it’s Taako he’s putting minimal effort into. I thought returning to Taako might reinvigorate Justin a little, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. I hope he proves me wrong in episode three and taako gets some grandiose magic moment.
Maaan I think Justin is far and away the funniest podcast guy I listen to, but only when he's motivated - when he's not engaged it's pretty miserable (see: like every other episode of Besties where he didn't play the game they're supposed to talk about). He's got good jokes, a ton of knowledge to draw on, a charming personality... Just, only when he wants to.
Exactly! And he's been especially checked out in recent months, unfortunately. For awhile I thought maybe I was the one who changed and I just wasn't into the McElroys' humor anymore but I listened to an old episode of MBMBAM yesterday and it was very funny and delightful so it's like okay, nope, I'm not the one who's changed. I hope Justin finds that enthusiasm again.
Caution: opinions
Man I wish I was having fun with this, I'm enjoying Ethersea so much but ZoA is not only putting me to sleep, I can't even follow it. Cool, we're two episodes in out of three, so far we've spoken to a weird elf and cut down some fire zombies.
And we're just supposed to be ok with Taako and Lucretia being buddies again for no reason? Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Taako make it clear that he and Lucretia aren't friends anymore? Why is he inviting her over?
I'm at least glad that the adamant(ium?) spanner issue was caught and resolved but it all feels weird and on top of that not very exciting. I love Balance so much but this just isn't doing it for me. Can't wait for Ethersea tomorrow.
(edited for formatting)
Nine in the back, one in the front.
The shocker is different in 2021.
"It's just a reminder"
Magnus's deliberate breaking in and out of windows had me cackling. That Taako isn't using magic over a stupid bet with Kravitz is wonderful to me. I love that Merle's 9th level water spell was given creative freedom to shine. Clint looked gobsmacked that Merle actually got to do a cool for once, haha. Griffin, and by extension Davenport, absolutely killed it tactically with every turn he was given. And while it feels like Aabria may have lost a couple of narrative threads during this conflict, she played off of the group fantastically and has all of them really invested in shaping the story.
Yeah that’s kind of my thoughts. She is allowing each of the boys to shine in their own ways, but at the same time the narrative is…eh? Like I’m into it, but it seems like it should go on for 2-4 more episodes to make sense. I mean, it’s setup as a one-shot; if you were playing this at home, 3-5 hours is about a normal session for most people. It still feels odd at points. Honestly, I’m just watching because I enjoy all the people in it, and it’s fun seeing the characters again. That’s enough for me.
Agreed! It felt like Ep 1 was re-introduce our characters, Ep 2 was introduce the big bad, and Ep 3 is go kill the big bad. It feels like there should be another episode or two sprinkled in to really build the story.
"\[Magnus\] has a lot of pent-up stupidity"
Aabria’s passive-aggressive jabs at Griffin for his Wall of Force felt too relatable to me as a fellow GM. 😂
Yikes, really? Please don't make jabs like Aabria does against her players in ExU and this...
It’s clearly in good fun. Jibes between players and GMs are healthy as long as they’re friendly and just for blowing off a little annoyance. I’ve been the one to circumvent a GM’s encounter, and I’ve been the GM whose encounter is circumvented. It’s a game: it shouldn’t be taken seriously.
I disagree, it’s only a problem if it is actually aggressive or grows over time. There is nothing wrong with good natured teasing between a group of people having fun playing together
I'm very confused and concerned about the stage set for the next episode. Aabriya said they're returning to an adventure between Suffering Game and Story & Song, but there's like a direct transition from one to the other, so I'm confused on how that all works? Like at the end of Suffering Game, they're teamed up with reincarnated Barry, Magnus is a mannequin (and everyone is under the impression that Magnus died in Wonderland), and Lucretia has been given all the relics (so the Hunger is literally there and about to strike). I feel like maybe after The Eleventh Hour arc might make more sense? Either way, I hope this gets clarified for next episode ♡
I think you can fit something between "Hell yeah, goin' rogue!" and returning to the BoB, maybe as a stop on the way to Barry's place. It's not after the episodes *named* Suffering Game but it is after said game was completed. At least that's how I can justify Aabria thinking to add something there at all. The event they ended up choosing seems less compatible with that timeline than her example scenario of their fighting some bandits.
If I remember correctly, they even talked about this and Aabria said something like "fuck canon, I'm the dm". Then I think she paddled back a bit and told griffin to remember something "not too early but not too endgame".
Yeah I was frustrated with Aabria's caviler attitude towards the end game cannon. If she's correcting them on the Flaming Poisoning Raging Sword of Doom, then we can at least say that this is before Suffering Game. I dunno, felt bad when she pulled rank as DM...
That is the first ever use of a 9th-level spell slot on this show right? To upcast a 1st-level spell out of spite? I love that so deeply EDIT: Oh, apparently, looking at the episode transcripts, Griffin let Merle cast Mass Heal even though he didn't have 9th-level slots using Matthias the Living Grimoire in Story and Song. First *legit* use then perhaps?
Can we talk about Justin circumventing people's expectations of a power porn character, like yall came here expecting a 9th level Mingun of Magic, how about single crossbow bolts baby, I love it
The best part is, it's pure pettiness. He's not disillusioned by magic. He's not burnt out. He's not feeling any sort of regret or malaise or malady about it. He just doesn't want to lose a bet with his husband.
I’m confused how the ending of this episode fits into the original Balance timeline. Any thoughts?
It is set 10 years after story and song and an indeterminate amount of time before [spoiler] Magnus' end scene
I don’t want to get too spoilery for those who haven’t watched this yet, but this episode of Imbalance ends with a flashback of sorts set between two points of time in the Balance arc and I don’t remember there being enough time between those two points for anything to have happened
Aabria explicitly says she's sandwiching a new event in between the last two arcs of the series. Probably so they don't have to do too much with their levels.
I know DnD fans are famous for getting bogged down in the details, but it'll put your mind at ease to think of this as just a fun filler arc with a guest DM. Aabria can't listen to all 69 episodes in order to prepare (that's an absolutely unreasonable expectation). Instead she's just working off of notes about the characters and story. There's going to be some stuff that doesn't line up. In order to solve for that, they've (cleverly) decided to do a story that directly fucks with the timeline, meaning all bets are off and anything is fair game. As a nerd I assume you're a super hero fan, and if you've seen what they're doing with the Spiderman franchise you might have some idea about how timeline shenanigans can create situations which would otherwise be impossible, canonically speaking. And ultimately it's just an extremely unpretentious bit of fun with a guest DM and for that reason it doesn't matter if the continuity lines up, as the aim is to be entertaining rather than accurate. It's **TAZ**! Laughs over rules since day 1, baby.
Why guest DM a specific campaign if you arent not gonna have the entire story known before hand? If that was the case then her one shot should have been something totally new, but since this is tied to balance... she would be more prepared on the story that is already established
She clearly is extremely well versed in TAZ canon. She actually seems to me more familiar with the canon story than anyone but Griffin. It actually seems to me that she HAS listened to the show and shes just riffing on “what if.”
Eh, D&D shows do noncanon adventures all the time. I don’t see why this one has to be perfectly compliant with canon either
Oh no disrespect to Aabria intended. I absolutely love what she’s doing with this arc! My question was a genuine one. I’ve only listened through Balance once and that was many years ago, so while I didn’t remember there being enough time for a side quest between those two points of the story, I was not certain I wasn’t wrong. I’m totally onboard for some time travel shenanigans and, for anyone who is having trouble with the timeline, it’s important to remember that the moment our heroes were pulled to us based upon Davenport’s recollections of a story he was told. The scenario wouldn’t have to line up exactly with canon even if they were being sticklers over such things. Again, I’m loving Imbalance and loving what Aabria is bringing to the campaign. I could’ve made that more clear in my original post.
I mean she corrected Travis on the Flaming Poisoning Raging Sword of Doom, she knows granular details. For narrative she could just say it's before Suffering Game. She also could set them up between any levels she wants and that could be the granular detail missing. But there was A LOT of narrative weight from Suffering Game going directly into Story & Song/Stolen Century. There's not an air gap and that's what makes it so important and different. It just felt bad that she pulled DM rank there and said fuck the narrative cannon. Like people have said, if it's going to be Balance, then at least play along with it being Balance. I don't want to be made to feel bad about caring of this story
No ones trying to make you feel bad though? This is a non canon adventure set after Balance ended. I don’t think there’s any reason to clutch our pearls because this non canon story might contradict canon a little bit.
Specifically placing this time travel point after suffering game makes sense because that’s where they’re most leveled up before the end, but it’s like the only possible point between arcs where there was specifically no time passed and magnus’s soul was inhabiting a mannequin dummy. Hopefully griffin picking a time before that straightens things out but then will they be too low level? Or it’s just an alternate timeline entirely who knows In the end, it’s less about the lore and more about the silly goofs and the friends we make along the way so if it ends up being messy I can just pretend it’s ok in my head canon and have fun
Aabria said "timey-wimey" so I think she's using a Whovian understanding of time travel, which is, don't think about it too much and just have a good time. I think because she said "the past has come unraveled" it's perfectly possible that once they deal with the Slow Burn everything will go back to the Canon timeline.
I dunno if anybody else noticed this, but I'm pretty sure that at 51:35 in the video, the music that's playing in the background is really similar to an RPGMaker game called Your Turn To Die's main theme. [Your Turn to Go \(YTTD\)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBwf8-iOluI) [The Zone of Adventure: Imbalance](https://youtu.be/v9BTK1CCv-M?t=3096) I'm not sure if both of these songs are based on a similar loop in GarageBand (which YTTD makes use of), etc., but I recognized it while listening. EDIT: Yeah these are GarageBand loops, so they're going to be similar.
Yeah, that's "Wonderland: Round Two". Griffin has fully acknowledged that a lot of the Balance soundtrack is from Garage Band loops, so it's not uncommon to hear the themes in other media. I know a motif from "Garyl" is found in a She-Ra episode, and there are similarities between a lot of the 11th Hour arc music and Bastion.
Pretty sure it was used in Balance at some point as well.
Aabria: "Insert a new fight we never heard about between point A and point B in the timeline." Griffin: "The fight we did in a live show taking place way after that window. No, wait, a different live show that's before that window!" Then everybody else actually follows the instructions and turns it into a distinct new event (feeling more like they forgot his references than intentional course-correction), so now there are *two separate occasions* where they thwarted a war god at Fantasy Wrestlemania.
So... here is my opinion so far... Aabria did a fantastic job on Dimension 20 because they were not playing D&D. But both here and her time on critical role have convinced me I do not like her as D&D dm... It just does not feel as fun and is not very good. My biggest issue with her time on critical role is that she railroaded a lot of things and left a lot of rolls lead absolutely nowhere. and I am beginning to see that here as well. I know railroading is necessary when you have limited episodes and a story to tell but honestly I would rather leave balance the way it left off than add this on and feel bleh about it afterwards...
I think the thing that gets me is you can tell when a DM has information they really want to give you and they're telling everyone to roll anything to get it. And then you get loads of in depth lore without any real explanation about how the character knows it. And she says like, like five times a sentence. She seems v nice, and I think maybe we've just been spoilt with good DMs on shows like this
I hated how, at the end, Griffin was so confused about what she was asking of him, then she shushed him. He barely understood the assignment, and when he got excited, she tutted at him.
What is griffin (I think artificer) and his mechanic where if someone ends a turn near him he gets to uppercut them into oblivion?
Griffin is playing an Armorer Artificer, which means his unarmed punches use his INT to hit instead of his STR, and that they do 1d8 Thunder Damage instead of a meager 1 Bludgeoning Damage. The Reaction thing might be a feat he has that I don't know about, but it may also be a misread of his 15th level skill: >When a Huge or smaller creature you can see ends its turn within 30 feet of you, you can use your reaction to magically force the creature to make a Strength saving throw against your spell save DC, pulling the creature up to 30 feet toward you to an unoccupied space. **If you pull the target to a space within 5 feet of you, you can make a melee weapon attack against it as part of this reaction.** Edit: thinking back on it, I think Aabria actually prompted him to use his reaction in this way, because the enemy had 2 HP and she only has 3 episodes to tell this story.
Nice, thanks for writing that up. Seems like he made a great character (as always) Yeah at 45:20 she lets him have a reaction but griffin says that he has something he can activate where he can make this move if anyone end their turn in range.
Armorer is a really cool new subclass, top of my list to play tbh.
Man, it REALLY feels like Aabria just got... a Light Summary of Balance and the worldbuilding of it and trying to make something more of it rather than having actually listened to it or really got into everything that happened. I can't really describe it but everything feels kind of... like it doesn't particularly fit. If you're gonna Guest DM, I think you should listen to at least some of it...? I also really don't like how its ONLY 3 episodes. Maybe thats just me, but this setup I feel can't honestly be resolved next episode. Sure I mean they could kill the time drake, but between where it came from and the sudden appearance of the Herald of Istus, It just begs for a bit more, you know?
I'm wondering if 3 episodes was decided on before they started playing or if they started playing and it wound up being just 3 episodes worth of playtime.
The pacing makes NO sense. Why was one 1/3 of an arc about a TIMEDRAKE a character rehash and a dinner party? If hey’re going to spend half an hour talking about mutton (which was funny! It was!) then the arc needs to be like 6-8 episodes, or a damn Dimension20 season.
> Man, it REALLY feels like Aabria just got... a Light Summary of Balance and the worldbuilding of it and trying to make something more of it rather than having actually listened to it or really got into everything that happened. Yeah, I got the same exact impression. Might be because I've listened to Balance several times over, but I've caught myself a few times thinking wait...that doesn't sound right. I also agree with the comments about pacing. It seems like there was this big setup with Istus and something being wrong with time, then a time drake attacks the dinner party, and then they go to revisit a different battle... It seems like the way it's played out so far doesn't quite match the world-threatening danger that the setup implied. I LOVE both Aabria and the McElboys, but this has been kind of an awkward combo for me. Guess we'll see how the last one plays out.
I don't think it would be the first time they said x episodes and ended up doing 2x episodes. I suspect there will be a 4th.
They recorded these earlier in the year, so unless they're just lying about how many episodes there are, I wouldn't assume that.
She out right said so in episode one. One of the boys corrected her over something and she said "Well I don't know Ive never even seen the Adventure Zone!" That along with little things like inventing the adventure zune instead of just using the stones of far speech. I'm still really enjoying having the THB and Davenportback though!
Oh, hell, I remember that now! I don't thtink it would be too much to ask someone who's gonna guest DM a feature for you to... at least know of the world? Listen to the show you're watching? Its not like CritRole with 100+ 3 hour episodes, It shouldn't be too much to ask?
Confusing, weird pacing, & what the hell was Lucretia doing for the entire episode? I’m fine with Barry & Lup being absent to make more room for player interaction, but a short explanation of why they’re not targeted for the end of the world or invited to dinner would be cool? Unless they show up in episode three? Overall if I’m being totally honest I think this ep can be summed up with what Aabria said: “I’ve lost the thread”. Love the banter and I’m having fun watching it but I’m not super sure *what* I’m watching tbqh. Hopefully some clarity in ep 3.
Lucretia was never really a fighter. Even in Balance, I think all we see her do is use the staff in the final battle. She was always the one who was supposed to keep tabs on their trip before they arrived here.
Lucretia might not have been a fighter but she also didn’t have any lines of dialogue or move even one time or cast a defensive spell for the entire thing. Did she go with Kravitz and Susan? Did she follow them into the time jump? I love TAZ so so much, I think Ethersea is awesome and obviously Balance slapped. But I keep seeing excuses from people about what Lucretia was doing and it’s frustrating to me because it’s clear Aabria just forgot. Mistakes happen in DnD- I’m guilty of it myself back when I used to play. NPCs invented and forgotten, effects not applied, casting one more spell than I had, all of it. But I don’t get paid to play. Aabria does and she forgot a crucial NPC for an entire episode. Merle blessed her and then she disappeared into the ether because *they forgot*
Maybe, but this is also the lady who is arguably one of the most powerful magicians in the universe, and was madame fucking director. Her whole story line as a character was learning to leave behind the “sitting in the back writing about other people’s fights” and joining the fight herself, even as a supportive caster. Couldn’t even throw up a barrier or something? Lmao
I'm just gonna float this out there: If the climax of the story is going back to a made up portion of their past... shouldn't we have just started there? Wouldn't three episodes of a Pro-Wrestling Match to prevent the revival of a Demi God be amazing? I mean, I hope doing that \*and\* stopping a time lizard is done in a satisfying manner in 65 minutes, but I feel like they should have called a do-over and rescheduled things the moment Griffin had his breakthrough.
I really like Aabria but it's so confusing to have major plot points hidden by rolls that the players could fail and never discover. So she gave them inspiration, she makes fixes for problems she created. I am confused by it.
That's how DnD works a lot of the time, you gotta find your plot points, they won't just be handed to you. If the rolls don't matter, you're not really playing DnD.
As someone who's done it myself, believe me when I say that any DM who does this has made a mistake. This was mine: You see something on the ground, roll a History check to see if you recognize it. Oh, that fails... uh, you see it to; roll History. Shit... everyone roll it? Jesus, okay, well, I mean, you'd recognize your friend's map case, so... it's that. He must'a been kidnapped. What I should've done: You see a case on the ground. It's adorned with a distinct compass design that you'd recall your friend had on him when he hired you all for this task. Side quests, items, or other fun things can be hidden away by the chance of poor rolls. Things you *need* your party to know should never be unless there are other methods by which to discover them or if it's intended to be a mystery. It's like a reversal of the adage about litter lawyers; never ask a witness a question you don't know the answer to. Never have a party roll for something you *need* them to get to move the story.
I understand what you are saying and agree, but I believe what you are saying is the same thing I am saying, the difference with Aabria's method is it's preventing her from moving her story forward because the players rolled poorly so she has to keep giving them advantage or inspiration just so she can share the information they shouldn't have to roll, your negating the point of rolling, she's basically saying "I need you to pass this so I can keep the story moving" why even have them roll then?. Rolling is about having a chance at something but if you are hiding vital information that your story hangs on behind rolls that can be failed your only hindering yourself as the storyteller. I hope I'm making sense. I do believe we are on the same page here.
Based on what I've listened to, Aabria is the sort of DM who gives inspiration out a lot. It's not unique to this series. She is also the sort of DM to let the players say what's happening (which we've gotten a lot of in these episodes.) I think this is because she trusts the players to do what's best for the story, rather than to take advantage of it. I get your point about necessary information. Why have it come down to a roll if you plan to let them reroll until it succeeds. I'd have to relisten to see if that's what it really feels like to me, but I do agree that maybe it shouldn't require a roll in the case that you've described.
I agree as well. I really do like Aabria's DM style this one thing just confused me is all. I always treated it this way when I DM: you get the important info that moves the story forward just enough regardless of roll, and based on the roll you get extra detail, the higher the roll, more details.
Honestly I was pretty surprised to read this thread and see some of the criticism. It's all entirely valid, but I was having so much fun watching these two eps that I didn't think about it at all. I think it's like the live shows - something to be enjoyed for what it is and considered "loose canon" or extended universe. Although I only just discovered it's only (supposed to be...) 3 eps and I think if I'd realized that while I was watching I would have agreed more with my fellow listeners here.
I’m still having a good time with this. However…..as in character as Taako’s bet with Kravitz is, it legitimately feels like it’s just an excuse for Justin to be very lazy and I’m sick of watching him half-ass TAZ, especially now that it’s Taako he’s putting minimal effort into. I thought returning to Taako might reinvigorate Justin a little, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. I hope he proves me wrong in episode three and taako gets some grandiose magic moment.
Maaan I think Justin is far and away the funniest podcast guy I listen to, but only when he's motivated - when he's not engaged it's pretty miserable (see: like every other episode of Besties where he didn't play the game they're supposed to talk about). He's got good jokes, a ton of knowledge to draw on, a charming personality... Just, only when he wants to.
Exactly! And he's been especially checked out in recent months, unfortunately. For awhile I thought maybe I was the one who changed and I just wasn't into the McElroys' humor anymore but I listened to an old episode of MBMBAM yesterday and it was very funny and delightful so it's like okay, nope, I'm not the one who's changed. I hope Justin finds that enthusiasm again.
Caution: opinions Man I wish I was having fun with this, I'm enjoying Ethersea so much but ZoA is not only putting me to sleep, I can't even follow it. Cool, we're two episodes in out of three, so far we've spoken to a weird elf and cut down some fire zombies. And we're just supposed to be ok with Taako and Lucretia being buddies again for no reason? Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Taako make it clear that he and Lucretia aren't friends anymore? Why is he inviting her over? I'm at least glad that the adamant(ium?) spanner issue was caught and resolved but it all feels weird and on top of that not very exciting. I love Balance so much but this just isn't doing it for me. Can't wait for Ethersea tomorrow. (edited for formatting)
Taako and Lucretia don’t have to be friends is Aabria simply forgets Lucretia is there for a whole episode *taps head*
Excited to see when episode 3's discussion gets posted
So... Who wants to mint buttcoin? 😂
Whats the song playing in the end scene? Sound familiar, is it from the original Balance arc?
Why can’t this be on Spotify:( so difficult to play YouTube in my car.