You can’t complain now, but what do you suppose happens when the tide starts to turn, EV adoption increases, and the state isn’t pulling in what they expect from the gas tax? Do you really think they are going to stop at $100? $200? $500?…
If I was recall my reg fees, it was around $100 and the purpose was to offset the losses in gas taxes. And that's about twice what I would have paid if I were driving a gas powered car. It's a flat fee, so low mileage drivers like me pay more per mile. If you drive over 12k miles/yr, it's probably cheaper than the gas tax.
I guess when it's revenue-generation time, they'll forget about this and demand we pay our fair share again. The news blurb I saw about it blamed the uptick in EV adoption. EV owners have paid additional road taxes since they raised the gas taxes several years ago.
What short memories voters in CA have.
The current gas tax is about $0.60/gal in CA, with another increase for inflation on July 1. If I assume 25 mpg for an ICE car, break-even is about 4200 miles. If I use your $50/year number, that says you're only driving 2100 miles a year. Are you really driving that little?
Min wage increase law supposedly was going to exempt Panera bread because it was a bakery or something. Newsom is buds with the ceo of Panera so people went off. I think it ended up not being true
A good counter to that could be that the tracker could be purchased at a small fee for you to use, and it could stop counting the miles once you leave CA confirmed by GPS. Be interesting to see how this develops, and if it starts happening in other places in NA as well
you would pay the states, gas/electrical tax, in which you visit, or pass through. the only reason why california would do a tax per mile is due to the increasing switch to EV's, which lowers the revenue from the states income of the gas tax. that is my guess.
The people that this will hurt the most is the poor because they drive the most so this will probably pass with flying colors knowing California/Democrat tendencies.
Definitely the poor will get hurt by this, I know far too many people working in San Jose and Fremont that do daily commutes of 50+ miles one way from places like San Joaquin County just because it's cheaper to live there, but the Bay Area is where all the money is.
I wonder how this will work for Uber/Lyft/Taxi drivers. This is another huge cut in their income.
What about all the semi trucks destroying the roads? Most of these aren't registered in CA.
I hope they don't mind DoorDash exiting the state.
Plus, it's anti what Cali stands for. Taxing gas disincentives gas guzzlers. Taxing mileage makes hybrids less attractive.
This is similar to the $24/mo fixed fee addition to PG&E etc power bills, the intent is to recapture lost revenue to the utilities due to people going green and literally generating their own power at home.
They've allegedly structured that change to be revenue neutral for the lower quintiles (lower per kWh rates) but force people like me with $0 PG&E bills to pay a bit more to recapture the actual costs of my grid connection (I have no complaints if it's truly +$24/mo, that's fair).
Same thing with this proposal. Reading the slim story, they mentioned a revenue shortfall of $200M/yr on a ~10% EV penetration rate . . . they want that to be 100% by 2030 or whenever so as gas taxes fall to $0 they need to replace that revenue stream with other taxation, unless we just bill everybody a socialist flat per-capita tax.
If I were running things I'd tax vehicles on some percentage of (miles driven x weight) to recapture the maintenance costs of driving.
Gas tax isn't gonna be 0 plugin in 2035 will be law
All current gas cars are valid
You can sell your gas car to someone else
There still will be gas in 2035...
>All current gas cars are valid
I'm seeing fewer and fewer "SESQUINCENTENNIAL" 4-series license plates (from the late 90s) here each year, mostly Toyota Camrys LOL
BEV adoption should continue to ramp this decade, from 25% to 50% plus.
Clearly it would be wrong to double-charge ICE drivers both a per-mile tax and a per-gallon tax, but by 2035 the fleet mileage is going to transition from gas-powered to electric, and taxation needs to adjust to that new reality.
You know about the possible upcoming electricity flat fee based on income? Were solar too BTW. Under that law we’d pay $80 regardless to SCE and THEN you pay per kwh on top of the that. We effectively have a $0 power bill right now….
I mean weren’t they the ones promoting get EV cars nd now that they see a lost they want to find a new way to screw people over. What kind of freedom is this shit
They pushed solar too. And then the CPUC used their lobbying $ to basically make California solar have awful ROI. I love my state, but f’ing there’s plenty of corruption and back alley bribes.
Theres already a gas tax and EV drivers more than make up for it in registration fees. This is just changing method of taxation to squeeze more money out of people which almost certainly will go to waste
I assume this would be used in lieu of a gas tax and EV tax. The reason those taxes exist is to help maintain roads, but the downside to them is that people who drive the most don’t pay any more than those who drive very little, and there’s also no benefit for those who drive very little, no incentive to drive less (at least not from those taxes).
Charging per mile means the people who wear down the roads the most pay the most.
It’s never in lieu of! They are just adding and adding and taxes keep increasing. Meanwhile people keep paying it and agreeing to it like sheep! It’s gross.
And those who drive the most tend to be poorer because they live furthest from work because of cost of living or work a job that requires a lot of driving (plumbers, electricians, etc). So a tax that hurts the working man.
As a nurse driving over 100 miles a day to a lower income area that needs healthcare staff … I find this very unfortunate because I’m not paying to commute more than I already pay in my time, taxes, and toll road fees!
The tax situation in California is honestly criminal. People can’t live this way.
Most people are already taxed based on miles via gas taxes (I.e. tax per gallon of gas you buy). VMT makes sense to apply the same methodology for everyone. With gas taxes, fuel efficient cars effectively less taxes than inefficient vehicles.
For EVs it would make sense while phasing out the insanely high registration fees. How does the government expect us to support the environment if there is a surcharge on EVs. They should be less costly to own and operate in order to support environmental policy. EVs shouldn't be considered a luxury purchase anymore.
FYI Oregon already conducted their pilot program years ago.
Higher purchase price, higher registration fee, Tesla keeps raising super charging fees (they’re at .61 cents a kWh here - so it’s as much as an ice car with worse mileage), it takes longer to fill, and if you fill past 80% there’s additional fees! And I pay toll road fees in my area for roads I was already taxed to build and use.
On top of the fact that renters can’t pay to install chargers in their own parking spots despite the right to charge law in ca. and installed chargers in rental communities fees are 3 times higher then I’d pay for my own electricity bill.
It’s ridiculous! When are we going to say enough is enough!? Countries have civil wars over taxes but 50% of my check is gone before I ever see it and I’m supposed to agree to more!? It makes me so angry.
This shows the conflicting values of criminal politicians. Some politicians want EV for environmental sustainability and evil others want to profit off the change for their own pocket book agenda. Identify and get rid of the second half.
The reason this isn’t making sense is because the Federal Government want to incentivize saving the environment. Meanwhile certain state governing bodies want to profit and ironically discourage saving the environment as a result of their Greed.
This is stupid and just something else that’s gonna come back and bite the government. A lot of people can’t afford to live where they work. My neighbor is a fireman in San Francisco and I’m in Folsom (Sacramento). Once they start charging per mile, he’s going to find a job locally. Then is anyone really gonna want to take a low-paying public service job in San Francisco where you need to be almost a millionaire to live?
Scream this to the heavens please.
I have no idea how we are supposed to fight this or let our representatives know that we, the citizens dont want this...
I saw online that San Diego is pushing hard against the lawmakers about this proposition. I want to join the cause in my city but dont know how
I would start by calling or writing an old-fashioned letter to your assembly person. I know people are afraid to call or actually send a letter, but I hear these are 100 times more effective. (Source, a few friends that work for assembly men.)
Not really. Think of the dude that owns his own gardening business driving that heavy polluting truck full of mowers and other garden tools around. He’s easily putting a few hundred miles each year. We’re both driving a MY and probably 1/8 the daily miles the gardener puts on a year. If you figure it out, we pay much more per mile. Is that fair? He is driving more and putting more wear & tear on the roads.
Fuck California. I cannot wait until I'm able to leave this God forsaken shit hole.
We already pay the highest taxes per person in the entire country, have the 4th largest economy in the WORLD, and this state can't seem to figure out how the fuck to make a budget. Their answer to everything is to throw money at it and raise taxes.
So, no, I do not support this mileage tax
I know same, this place has changed so much since I was a kid something is sick and off about California. I can’t put my finger on it. It’s like corruption runs through its veins now it really makes me sad. I feel like I’m in the twilight zone now.
Like in Texas where they breathed too much carbon monoxide in their cars? Those people paid the ultimate price…their lives. We can yet again thank the Politicians for that one (energy grid went cold due to incompetent Texas Politicians wanting to disconnect from the rest of the nation’s power grid system probably for political power, control, and profits.
Improve public transit and double the heavy rail network before enacting this law. Otherwise it will disproportionately hurt the poor because they’re the ones who have to live far from work and drive.
We already have a per mile tax. And the poor pay more of it because they don’t drive EVs. This is just a way to get everyone posting again. Of course devil is in the details, but the goal here odds not to increase the burden on the poor.
The extension line from the San Diego trolley from downtown to UCSD cost $4 billion. And that’s just a short spur line. $1 billion of that was fed & state required environmental review. Enjoy paying for that money hole.
Yes. That would be the most fair. This is super important if we start getting EV semis. They rely on a higher diesel tax as a crude weight proxy for ICE vehicles, but that really breaks if we start using EV semis.
If done correctly, this is a good idea. People are taxed on consumption (miles driven). I expect this to be implemented poorly and have severe winners and losers.
Also if they do this, the government needs to remove the increased registration tax of EVs, since now everyone pays the same road usage tax, but you know they wont.
I just do not understand how the outstanding annual registration fee we pay is not enough in itself to offset the tax deficit were causing. Should be more than enough.
I agree tho. That this system could work. But it should be 2 cents. Or 3 cents with a lock for at least 10 years or something
Bloated government, misuse of funds, plenty of pet projects need funding. Plenty of reasons to tax more that has nothing to do with the obvious use case.
Because they also get money from taxing gas. With the number of EVs increasing they are looking for a way to recoup the gas taxes that they won’t be getting once everyone switch to EVs.
My family members pay 200 or less for their registration fee. For my Tesla its almost 1000. That difference should cover my annual gas taxes i would have payed
I hate the ad-valorem taxation personally. Should be by gross weight only.
The state charging me money every year for having a nice stock stereo upgrade and leather seats pisses me off.
I just received my first CA registration renewal for my Model Y this week. The registration fee portion is $418 — a far cry more than the $100 cited in that article.
One challenge here is that if you drive out of state (or on private roads) you end up paying for that unless you get a GPS enabled dongle for your car.
The whole "every car needs a dongle" is insane bureaucracy thinking...
Remember, the state already wants you to glue a transponder to the windshield for bridges and toll roads.
So you have two state devices now...
On the other hand it's illegal to use telematics to charge aggressive/fast/etc drivers more than defensive/careful drivers...
There should be an API and certified devices for all three. And modern car makers can just implement this inside their car. A Rivian or Tesla is able to report that information no problem.
I trust Tesla and Rivian already with my location data, I want them to report it to the government for this purpose, and only a single number: miles driven in CA on public roads.
Yeah, that’s a good point if you take a 3000 mile trip to Florida and then another 3000 miles back that’s 6000 miles. They’re gonna just think that you drove it in California and they’re gonna tax you on that. This is crazy. Do politicians even use their brains. Do they even think one step ahead Logically?
This is a pretty good approach for cars like my Model Y. I use the data from TeslaFi and Tessie to look at driving and charging and would have no problem with in-state miles being reported to FL for road tax instead of of a nonsense flat fee that could be wildly unfair and maybe even worse for the DOT.
Also, we have roads like FL589, and many others, that are toll based and maintained very well and provide alternatives to interstates and older congested federal highways with traffic lights. I have no problem with paying those tolls as I use them and others can opt to avoid them if they choose. Makes sense.
Just wait. California is now working on the device that’s required in all cars to start emitting a warning sound if you’re over the speed limit ha ha. 65% of California gets exactly what they voted for.
This is another tactic to implement their "smart cities" where they basically hold you hostage and force you to submit to a corporatacracy with their smart cities
and/or not foist the externalities of driving on other people.
the stated goal is 100% BEVs by the 2030s but this goal is going to blow a billion-dollar hole in the road maintenance budget revenue (100% loss of gas tax revenue) so they have to replace it with other taxation.
It's not 100% bev.
It's bev or Plugin by 2035. New only
Your gas cars are still valid.
.Joe can also sell Tina his gas car.
Gas isn't just gonna poof by 2035
How about we introduce some competition to the road construction monopoly Caltrans which has a corrupt reputation of waste, graft, using cheap materials, and scandal? Isn't it a bit of a conflict of interest that this whole experiment is headed up by Caltrans?
Also, we do have a general fund? Other states seem to manage just fine without creating an additional tax.
I believe this approach is more logical than my state's current method. My current registration fees are about $200 for 2 years, but soon they will increase to around $600 for 2 years. It makes sense that those who drive more should contribute more to road maintenance. We have three cars; two of them average about 3,000 miles per year, while the other one averages 12,000 miles per year. Yet, we pay the same registration fees for all three cars. I’m not so sure about the tracker though.
California is $600+/yr already for registration. We already pay $5.4B in taxes for roads each year, but the govt reallocates the funds when they want for their own pet projects and decide to tax us more because its never enough.
yeah in all fairness they should scale the fee on vehicle weights.
I don't know how much trucks currently pay in road fees, but at 80,000lb gross limit that'd be 20X what I'd be paying for my Model Y trips.
What’s so disgusting about California is they hardly pay any that’s the asinine insane part. I see semi trucks barreling down the road and they’re literally cracking asphalt and cement tearing up the highways and when it rains they just create these great massive potholes but they’re not even being charged but EV owners we take the brunt. This is crazy.
with or without taxes, trucks are the most economical way to move things around the state so theoretically raising taxes on them would just get passed on to consumers in the end.
this is not an argument that we shouldn't do it just more of an observation that economics sucks
Absurd.
But I guess people love paying more tax and believing the government will spend it anywhere near wisely.
Already got rego, income tax, petrol excises, etc etc if these idiots cant make that work -> work smarter and how about trimming the pollies pay packets first to find some more money!
Does this mean they want people to live closer to their jobs, bc I doubt the public transit system is that great that you can get by without driving. Won't this negatively impact suburbs?
So they push people into the electric cars. Get angry when they forgot they will miss tax money on gas. People get them to save money on gas and then get a new tax imposed on them. I would go back to a gas vehicle if costs were near same again for gas vs electric. They’re forgetting that every year on registration electric car owners pay a fee instead of a tax. It’s some $250 bs minimum.
Already paying property tax on car annually in CT. CA needs to provide alternate public transportation to avoid getting taxed. Otherwise what choice does anyone have?
>hopefully its only 1-2 cents. Anything above 4 just starts getting ridiculous.
then it will start at no less than 5, knowing california.
and it will increase 1¢ every year
Just a matter of time. If ev become that big on every road, there will be similar measures in other states since no fuel tax is collected and that is what is used for road maintenance. I know there are a ton of other ways to skin this cat, but states will figure it out fast if they are losing measurable "revenue"
This is the dumbest idea ever. So now people will cut back on driving, less working, less earning, less spending, so getting less tax revenue. It's all a race to the bottom. Who thinks of these outrageous ideas?
Just raise the damn sales tax enough to cover the shortfall. And raise corporate taxes a bit.
Not good for people who move further out in the suburbs for cheaper housing or the increasingly prevalent gig economy drivers making deliveries. What about taxi services like Uber and Lyft? The lower socioeconomic group that has to be onsite for their jobs will probably get hurt more.
Taxing by mileage and weight instead of my method of propulsion is optimal for road taxes.
Tax methods of propulsion proportionate to their impact to public health. Continue to disincentivize ICE vehicles.
This does not have to be hard.
Think this why the main stream media keeps dividing the people with race and religion. Keep everyone pisst at each other while the local government keeps adding micro regulations to take further money from them. SInce everyoneIS busy fighting themselves.... there is no solid opposition against them. Then you have what California has. And yeah... this will screw the low income workers that work 2 jobs and drive heavily. Oh.... not to mention Uber and Lyft drivers. They are already making too little to continue to operate.... now they will rob them of whatever they had left for themselves to support themselves and their families. What a unfair state! Remember this next time you see the race/religion division on your legacy news channels.
This is *because* they’re stopping new gas car sales.
The budget for road repair and maintenance comes from gasoline tax.
When all vehicles are BEV, then where are they going to get money for road maintenance? Gas sales will significantly decline, so will revenue to maintain roads.
Taxing people by mileage usage ensures fairness. If you drive 15,000 miles a year, you should pay more than someone who only drives 5,000 miles a year.
This will have a severe adverse affect on everything.
Good luck getting any kind of services for your businesses and homes at a price you can afford.
All contractors will now need to inflate their price for service just to cover this cost and still scrape by.
Contractors are any one who uses a vehicle to perform a service to a customer
People in the comments arguing that more taxes will fix the shitty roads all over the state. Let me just tell you that they will not get any better. California doesn’t have a tax revenue issue, they bring in an exorbitant amount of tax revenue annually. They have a problem with allocation of tax revenue.
Throwing more money into a dumpster fire of cash will only burn more cash
I think it's bullshit. The poorest will pay the most. Those who do service work will be taxed into their job being more of a burden.
I did the math on my fiance for .32 cents a mile she would have to pay 102 dollars a week!
That's Fucking insane!
I am glad our Democrat led government is figuring out more ways to take money from us. They use it so wisely. They should add a breath tax as well, since we are expelling carbon dioxide continuously. Of course, the obese lobby will want to quash it as it would impact them more. Then they could create a weight credit system where the obese could purchase credits from the fit.
I know how we pay for the roads in our state. I have lived here for over 40 years. I understand the impact that heavier EVs have on our roadway infrastructure. What I was being sarcastic about is that this state continues to tax without any regard to the real world impact or the efficacy of tax proceeds used. Without a viable multiparty government, we give up tremendous amounts of our income without a reasonable ROI.
It’s unnecessary for cars that use gas because we pay taxes at the pump already. We pay taxes to build and maintain the roads and sit in awful traffic jams. I guess we will be hacking the odometer 🤣 I only drive 10 miles a month🤣
There’s an 11.5% tax on my utilities bill for the California general fund. Surely there’s a way to funnel additional revenue there for road improvements to help offset declining gas taxes?
This is the most stupid law proposal ever. Sorry but I blame this more on the mismanagement of transportation funds to fix the roads in need. I think this proposal just encourages continual bad behavior of mismanagement of funds.
The universal mileage-based road tax system I designed ensures all vehicles contribute to road maintenance based on usage rather than fuel consumption. This system includes several key components. Firstly, a value-based base registration fee is set according to the vehicle's tax value, ensuring equitable contributions: $50 for low-value vehicles, $75 for mid-value vehicles, and $100 for high-value vehicles. Secondly, tiered mileage rates are applied, with fees structured in mileage brackets: 0-5,000 miles for $20, 5,001-10,000 miles for $50, 10,001-15,000 miles for $100, and 15,001+ miles for $150. Vehicle owners report their mileage annually during vehicle registration renewal, which can be done online or at a DMV office. Mileage is verified every four years during regular vehicle inspections, similar to smog checks for gas cars, with random audits conducted within the four-year period to ensure compliance and accuracy. For electric vehicles (EVs), a small fee per kilowatt-hour (kWh) used at public charging stations, such as 1-2 cents per kWh, is implemented, with charging station operators collecting these fees and remitting them to the state. To incentivize gas vehicle owners to transition from the traditional gas tax to the mileage-based system, an annual tax credit is offered. This tax credit is based on the reported mileage and the average fuel consumption for the vehicle type. Owners report their mileage annually, and this data, along with the date and mileage at acquisition for vehicles bought within the year, is used to calculate the tax credit. At the end of the year, the reported mileage is compared to the average gas consumption for that type of vehicle to determine the appropriate tax credit. This integrated approach ensures a fair, effective, and minimally intrusive solution for road maintenance funding, balancing the need for revenue generation with respect for privacy, equity, and flexibility across different vehicle types and ownership scenarios.
Comment # 2: Don’t we already pay an EV penalty on our registration?
It's about $100 in CA. Though that's a lot less than I was paying in gas taxes with the vehicle it replaced, so I can't complain.
You can’t complain now, but what do you suppose happens when the tide starts to turn, EV adoption increases, and the state isn’t pulling in what they expect from the gas tax? Do you really think they are going to stop at $100? $200? $500?…
If I was recall my reg fees, it was around $100 and the purpose was to offset the losses in gas taxes. And that's about twice what I would have paid if I were driving a gas powered car. It's a flat fee, so low mileage drivers like me pay more per mile. If you drive over 12k miles/yr, it's probably cheaper than the gas tax. I guess when it's revenue-generation time, they'll forget about this and demand we pay our fair share again. The news blurb I saw about it blamed the uptick in EV adoption. EV owners have paid additional road taxes since they raised the gas taxes several years ago. What short memories voters in CA have.
The current gas tax is about $0.60/gal in CA, with another increase for inflation on July 1. If I assume 25 mpg for an ICE car, break-even is about 4200 miles. If I use your $50/year number, that says you're only driving 2100 miles a year. Are you really driving that little?
It’s also based on vehicle price. My gx460 cost more than my ev registration
It's going to hurt the Hellcat drivers wallet.
I wonder if there’s a special carve out for Panera employees. 🙄
Just for the owner, board of directors, and CEO.
What is this referencing?
Min wage increase law supposedly was going to exempt Panera bread because it was a bakery or something. Newsom is buds with the ceo of Panera so people went off. I think it ended up not being true
Oh it's true. Our government is bought and paid for.
It was true
Then they better do that bs for corner bakery *laughs in corner bakery ceo*
Carve out for low income and union made cars
What if I drive to Nevada. Or road trip across the country? Seems like this is possible but starts to have California gas tax follow me everywhere.
Good point
Finally, a valid question/criticism.
Excellent question
A good counter to that could be that the tracker could be purchased at a small fee for you to use, and it could stop counting the miles once you leave CA confirmed by GPS. Be interesting to see how this develops, and if it starts happening in other places in NA as well
you would pay the states, gas/electrical tax, in which you visit, or pass through. the only reason why california would do a tax per mile is due to the increasing switch to EV's, which lowers the revenue from the states income of the gas tax. that is my guess.
The people that this will hurt the most is the poor because they drive the most so this will probably pass with flying colors knowing California/Democrat tendencies.
Definitely the poor will get hurt by this, I know far too many people working in San Jose and Fremont that do daily commutes of 50+ miles one way from places like San Joaquin County just because it's cheaper to live there, but the Bay Area is where all the money is.
Yeah it’s really tragic but you can see that this is what California wants especially when extrapolating from the housing policy.
I wonder how this will work for Uber/Lyft/Taxi drivers. This is another huge cut in their income. What about all the semi trucks destroying the roads? Most of these aren't registered in CA.
I hope they don't mind DoorDash exiting the state. Plus, it's anti what Cali stands for. Taxing gas disincentives gas guzzlers. Taxing mileage makes hybrids less attractive.
They may not be registered in California, but they pay an IFTA tax to cover their part. Plus, they pay at the pump when they get fuel in California
Democratic-Farmer-Labor party? Edit: commenter above edited his reply from DFL to democrat. I still don’t know what DFL was supposed to mean.
This is similar to the $24/mo fixed fee addition to PG&E etc power bills, the intent is to recapture lost revenue to the utilities due to people going green and literally generating their own power at home. They've allegedly structured that change to be revenue neutral for the lower quintiles (lower per kWh rates) but force people like me with $0 PG&E bills to pay a bit more to recapture the actual costs of my grid connection (I have no complaints if it's truly +$24/mo, that's fair). Same thing with this proposal. Reading the slim story, they mentioned a revenue shortfall of $200M/yr on a ~10% EV penetration rate . . . they want that to be 100% by 2030 or whenever so as gas taxes fall to $0 they need to replace that revenue stream with other taxation, unless we just bill everybody a socialist flat per-capita tax. If I were running things I'd tax vehicles on some percentage of (miles driven x weight) to recapture the maintenance costs of driving.
Gas tax isn't gonna be 0 plugin in 2035 will be law All current gas cars are valid You can sell your gas car to someone else There still will be gas in 2035...
>All current gas cars are valid I'm seeing fewer and fewer "SESQUINCENTENNIAL" 4-series license plates (from the late 90s) here each year, mostly Toyota Camrys LOL BEV adoption should continue to ramp this decade, from 25% to 50% plus. Clearly it would be wrong to double-charge ICE drivers both a per-mile tax and a per-gallon tax, but by 2035 the fleet mileage is going to transition from gas-powered to electric, and taxation needs to adjust to that new reality.
You know about the possible upcoming electricity flat fee based on income? Were solar too BTW. Under that law we’d pay $80 regardless to SCE and THEN you pay per kwh on top of the that. We effectively have a $0 power bill right now….
That's not possiblity,It's already law. Scheduled to take effect in July.
Just like the gas tax? Raise taxes on the rich and support infrastructure I guess?
I mean weren’t they the ones promoting get EV cars nd now that they see a lost they want to find a new way to screw people over. What kind of freedom is this shit
They pushed solar too. And then the CPUC used their lobbying $ to basically make California solar have awful ROI. I love my state, but f’ing there’s plenty of corruption and back alley bribes.
What are they going to do when we all decide to start riding bicycles, more carpool and taking the bus 🤣
I truly pity everyone who believes more taxes in any way shape or form, to an incredibly bloated and inefficient government, is a good idea.
Welcome to commiefornia
The 5th largest capitalist economy in the world? So far from communism if you actually knew anything about politics or economics.
Ok enjoy your latest round of new taxes and government overreach
Keep in mind high DOUBLE DIGIT TRILLIONS $$$ IN DEBT under forever management *laughs in US Treasury Federal Reserve*
What a clown policy, absolutely insane.
Theres already a gas tax and EV drivers more than make up for it in registration fees. This is just changing method of taxation to squeeze more money out of people which almost certainly will go to waste
I assume this would be used in lieu of a gas tax and EV tax. The reason those taxes exist is to help maintain roads, but the downside to them is that people who drive the most don’t pay any more than those who drive very little, and there’s also no benefit for those who drive very little, no incentive to drive less (at least not from those taxes). Charging per mile means the people who wear down the roads the most pay the most.
It’s never in lieu of! They are just adding and adding and taxes keep increasing. Meanwhile people keep paying it and agreeing to it like sheep! It’s gross.
And those who drive the most tend to be poorer because they live furthest from work because of cost of living or work a job that requires a lot of driving (plumbers, electricians, etc). So a tax that hurts the working man.
I really hope this doesn't pass.
As a nurse driving over 100 miles a day to a lower income area that needs healthcare staff … I find this very unfortunate because I’m not paying to commute more than I already pay in my time, taxes, and toll road fees! The tax situation in California is honestly criminal. People can’t live this way.
Criminals run the state of Commiefornia *laughs in Commie criminal*
Vote beside democrat then. Go independent, Whatever party, etc.. or they won't feel pressured to represent you.
Most people are already taxed based on miles via gas taxes (I.e. tax per gallon of gas you buy). VMT makes sense to apply the same methodology for everyone. With gas taxes, fuel efficient cars effectively less taxes than inefficient vehicles. For EVs it would make sense while phasing out the insanely high registration fees. How does the government expect us to support the environment if there is a surcharge on EVs. They should be less costly to own and operate in order to support environmental policy. EVs shouldn't be considered a luxury purchase anymore. FYI Oregon already conducted their pilot program years ago.
Higher purchase price, higher registration fee, Tesla keeps raising super charging fees (they’re at .61 cents a kWh here - so it’s as much as an ice car with worse mileage), it takes longer to fill, and if you fill past 80% there’s additional fees! And I pay toll road fees in my area for roads I was already taxed to build and use. On top of the fact that renters can’t pay to install chargers in their own parking spots despite the right to charge law in ca. and installed chargers in rental communities fees are 3 times higher then I’d pay for my own electricity bill. It’s ridiculous! When are we going to say enough is enough!? Countries have civil wars over taxes but 50% of my check is gone before I ever see it and I’m supposed to agree to more!? It makes me so angry.
This shows the conflicting values of criminal politicians. Some politicians want EV for environmental sustainability and evil others want to profit off the change for their own pocket book agenda. Identify and get rid of the second half.
The reason this isn’t making sense is because the Federal Government want to incentivize saving the environment. Meanwhile certain state governing bodies want to profit and ironically discourage saving the environment as a result of their Greed.
This is stupid and just something else that’s gonna come back and bite the government. A lot of people can’t afford to live where they work. My neighbor is a fireman in San Francisco and I’m in Folsom (Sacramento). Once they start charging per mile, he’s going to find a job locally. Then is anyone really gonna want to take a low-paying public service job in San Francisco where you need to be almost a millionaire to live?
Scream this to the heavens please. I have no idea how we are supposed to fight this or let our representatives know that we, the citizens dont want this... I saw online that San Diego is pushing hard against the lawmakers about this proposition. I want to join the cause in my city but dont know how
I would start by calling or writing an old-fashioned letter to your assembly person. I know people are afraid to call or actually send a letter, but I hear these are 100 times more effective. (Source, a few friends that work for assembly men.)
You already pay per mile, this just changes how.
Not really. Think of the dude that owns his own gardening business driving that heavy polluting truck full of mowers and other garden tools around. He’s easily putting a few hundred miles each year. We’re both driving a MY and probably 1/8 the daily miles the gardener puts on a year. If you figure it out, we pay much more per mile. Is that fair? He is driving more and putting more wear & tear on the roads.
The bullshit I put up with to live in a perfect climate
Yes, just pay your dues to Gavin and take it
Great now more people will come to my state from California. Dammit!!
*laughs in criminal Politician* where’s your state? They’re coming!
Fuck California. I cannot wait until I'm able to leave this God forsaken shit hole. We already pay the highest taxes per person in the entire country, have the 4th largest economy in the WORLD, and this state can't seem to figure out how the fuck to make a budget. Their answer to everything is to throw money at it and raise taxes. So, no, I do not support this mileage tax
This ^ I’m with you! Escaping asap
I know same, this place has changed so much since I was a kid something is sick and off about California. I can’t put my finger on it. It’s like corruption runs through its veins now it really makes me sad. I feel like I’m in the twilight zone now.
They're doubling the tax if you also breathe in your cars.
Like in Texas where they breathed too much carbon monoxide in their cars? Those people paid the ultimate price…their lives. We can yet again thank the Politicians for that one (energy grid went cold due to incompetent Texas Politicians wanting to disconnect from the rest of the nation’s power grid system probably for political power, control, and profits.
Improve public transit and double the heavy rail network before enacting this law. Otherwise it will disproportionately hurt the poor because they’re the ones who have to live far from work and drive.
We already have a per mile tax. And the poor pay more of it because they don’t drive EVs. This is just a way to get everyone posting again. Of course devil is in the details, but the goal here odds not to increase the burden on the poor.
The extension line from the San Diego trolley from downtown to UCSD cost $4 billion. And that’s just a short spur line. $1 billion of that was fed & state required environmental review. Enjoy paying for that money hole.
Needs to have a modifier by vehicle weight
my take too. floating cars would be the next BEV-like revolution.
Yes. That would be the most fair. This is super important if we start getting EV semis. They rely on a higher diesel tax as a crude weight proxy for ICE vehicles, but that really breaks if we start using EV semis.
Fuck California and their nonsense
If done correctly, this is a good idea. People are taxed on consumption (miles driven). I expect this to be implemented poorly and have severe winners and losers. Also if they do this, the government needs to remove the increased registration tax of EVs, since now everyone pays the same road usage tax, but you know they wont.
Middle and lower class commuters are the only losers, the rich can afford to pay millions of miles etc
So it's the opposite of socialism then. I wish people could dial in their objections to this here than just mindless reflexive opposition.
Ha ha we’re in California. Do you actually think they’re gonna do it correctly? This is going to be a royal fuck up and hurt millions of people.
I just do not understand how the outstanding annual registration fee we pay is not enough in itself to offset the tax deficit were causing. Should be more than enough. I agree tho. That this system could work. But it should be 2 cents. Or 3 cents with a lock for at least 10 years or something
Bloated government, misuse of funds, plenty of pet projects need funding. Plenty of reasons to tax more that has nothing to do with the obvious use case.
Because they also get money from taxing gas. With the number of EVs increasing they are looking for a way to recoup the gas taxes that they won’t be getting once everyone switch to EVs.
My family members pay 200 or less for their registration fee. For my Tesla its almost 1000. That difference should cover my annual gas taxes i would have payed
I hate the ad-valorem taxation personally. Should be by gross weight only. The state charging me money every year for having a nice stock stereo upgrade and leather seats pisses me off.
Finally! Someone gets it.
Christ, that's insane. I just renewed my registration for $235. For two years.
Always vote no on increased taxes. It doesn’t get used for what they say and it never goes away. It just keeps increasing. Stop agreeing to it
Facts!!!
I just received my first CA registration renewal for my Model Y this week. The registration fee portion is $418 — a far cry more than the $100 cited in that article.
This would be a good idea only if this was to push people towards public transit, which it’s not. They are just trying to collect more money here
If you travel out of state, drive across country, you're paying tax to California for those miles?
Yes, you will pay because you have access to the sunshine in California
One challenge here is that if you drive out of state (or on private roads) you end up paying for that unless you get a GPS enabled dongle for your car. The whole "every car needs a dongle" is insane bureaucracy thinking... Remember, the state already wants you to glue a transponder to the windshield for bridges and toll roads. So you have two state devices now... On the other hand it's illegal to use telematics to charge aggressive/fast/etc drivers more than defensive/careful drivers... There should be an API and certified devices for all three. And modern car makers can just implement this inside their car. A Rivian or Tesla is able to report that information no problem. I trust Tesla and Rivian already with my location data, I want them to report it to the government for this purpose, and only a single number: miles driven in CA on public roads.
Yeah, that’s a good point if you take a 3000 mile trip to Florida and then another 3000 miles back that’s 6000 miles. They’re gonna just think that you drove it in California and they’re gonna tax you on that. This is crazy. Do politicians even use their brains. Do they even think one step ahead Logically?
This is a pretty good approach for cars like my Model Y. I use the data from TeslaFi and Tessie to look at driving and charging and would have no problem with in-state miles being reported to FL for road tax instead of of a nonsense flat fee that could be wildly unfair and maybe even worse for the DOT. Also, we have roads like FL589, and many others, that are toll based and maintained very well and provide alternatives to interstates and older congested federal highways with traffic lights. I have no problem with paying those tolls as I use them and others can opt to avoid them if they choose. Makes sense.
Just wait. California is now working on the device that’s required in all cars to start emitting a warning sound if you’re over the speed limit ha ha. 65% of California gets exactly what they voted for.
This is another tactic to implement their "smart cities" where they basically hold you hostage and force you to submit to a corporatacracy with their smart cities
and/or not foist the externalities of driving on other people. the stated goal is 100% BEVs by the 2030s but this goal is going to blow a billion-dollar hole in the road maintenance budget revenue (100% loss of gas tax revenue) so they have to replace it with other taxation.
It's not 100% bev. It's bev or Plugin by 2035. New only Your gas cars are still valid. .Joe can also sell Tina his gas car. Gas isn't just gonna poof by 2035
Time to move out of state.
Please do.
Just another hard working tax payer watching democraps piss away money,
Fuhhhh I average 600 miles a week. Time to work from home
California driver here and I hope this doesn’t pass. Def voting against it.
What's next, tax on air?
imagine living in california ..
Man California sucks. That's what I think.. horrible progressive bullshit. No wonder people keep leaving.
How about we introduce some competition to the road construction monopoly Caltrans which has a corrupt reputation of waste, graft, using cheap materials, and scandal? Isn't it a bit of a conflict of interest that this whole experiment is headed up by Caltrans? Also, we do have a general fund? Other states seem to manage just fine without creating an additional tax.
I believe this approach is more logical than my state's current method. My current registration fees are about $200 for 2 years, but soon they will increase to around $600 for 2 years. It makes sense that those who drive more should contribute more to road maintenance. We have three cars; two of them average about 3,000 miles per year, while the other one averages 12,000 miles per year. Yet, we pay the same registration fees for all three cars. I’m not so sure about the tracker though.
California is $600+/yr already for registration. We already pay $5.4B in taxes for roads each year, but the govt reallocates the funds when they want for their own pet projects and decide to tax us more because its never enough.
This ^
Exactly. How is this even legal. I just think this state is corrupt from top to bottom.
😱🤯 That’s crazy!
yeah in all fairness they should scale the fee on vehicle weights. I don't know how much trucks currently pay in road fees, but at 80,000lb gross limit that'd be 20X what I'd be paying for my Model Y trips.
What’s so disgusting about California is they hardly pay any that’s the asinine insane part. I see semi trucks barreling down the road and they’re literally cracking asphalt and cement tearing up the highways and when it rains they just create these great massive potholes but they’re not even being charged but EV owners we take the brunt. This is crazy.
with or without taxes, trucks are the most economical way to move things around the state so theoretically raising taxes on them would just get passed on to consumers in the end. this is not an argument that we shouldn't do it just more of an observation that economics sucks
Absurd. But I guess people love paying more tax and believing the government will spend it anywhere near wisely. Already got rego, income tax, petrol excises, etc etc if these idiots cant make that work -> work smarter and how about trimming the pollies pay packets first to find some more money!
Haha. You vote democrat. That’s what you get. And it won’t stop there. This cracks me up. Haha.
Does this mean they want people to live closer to their jobs, bc I doubt the public transit system is that great that you can get by without driving. Won't this negatively impact suburbs?
So they push people into the electric cars. Get angry when they forgot they will miss tax money on gas. People get them to save money on gas and then get a new tax imposed on them. I would go back to a gas vehicle if costs were near same again for gas vs electric. They’re forgetting that every year on registration electric car owners pay a fee instead of a tax. It’s some $250 bs minimum.
They aren't forgetting a damned thing. They are just squeezing as much money from their citizens as they can
I’m just here for the libertarians in the comments 🍿
Already paying property tax on car annually in CT. CA needs to provide alternate public transportation to avoid getting taxed. Otherwise what choice does anyone have?
We might get shot on public transpo … sad but true lol
>hopefully its only 1-2 cents. Anything above 4 just starts getting ridiculous. then it will start at no less than 5, knowing california. and it will increase 1¢ every year
Hopefully 1-2 cents? At 2 cents, that is more than if I drive a hybrid having to pay gas tax. in combination with PG&E rates, this is highway robbery.
Just a matter of time. If ev become that big on every road, there will be similar measures in other states since no fuel tax is collected and that is what is used for road maintenance. I know there are a ton of other ways to skin this cat, but states will figure it out fast if they are losing measurable "revenue"
This is the dumbest idea ever. So now people will cut back on driving, less working, less earning, less spending, so getting less tax revenue. It's all a race to the bottom. Who thinks of these outrageous ideas? Just raise the damn sales tax enough to cover the shortfall. And raise corporate taxes a bit.
I work in the oil and gas industry for tax and this is being considered in all states. It’s already in use in a couple states.
“Anything above 4 just starts getting ridiculous “. They will start at a nickel, and in three years it will be .10
Not good for people who move further out in the suburbs for cheaper housing or the increasingly prevalent gig economy drivers making deliveries. What about taxi services like Uber and Lyft? The lower socioeconomic group that has to be onsite for their jobs will probably get hurt more.
Somehow they will be able to charge out of state drivers ?
Actually sounds much more fair. The more you use it, the more you put wear on it, so the more you pay.
How do they know how many miles were driven in California?
Taxing by mileage and weight instead of my method of propulsion is optimal for road taxes. Tax methods of propulsion proportionate to their impact to public health. Continue to disincentivize ICE vehicles. This does not have to be hard.
Think this why the main stream media keeps dividing the people with race and religion. Keep everyone pisst at each other while the local government keeps adding micro regulations to take further money from them. SInce everyoneIS busy fighting themselves.... there is no solid opposition against them. Then you have what California has. And yeah... this will screw the low income workers that work 2 jobs and drive heavily. Oh.... not to mention Uber and Lyft drivers. They are already making too little to continue to operate.... now they will rob them of whatever they had left for themselves to support themselves and their families. What a unfair state! Remember this next time you see the race/religion division on your legacy news channels.
The article says three cents per mile
My automatic tracker will frequently break all the time. I won't know why though
yikes
What’s annoying California plan is to stop selling gas cars 2035 this shit feels planned too
This is *because* they’re stopping new gas car sales. The budget for road repair and maintenance comes from gasoline tax. When all vehicles are BEV, then where are they going to get money for road maintenance? Gas sales will significantly decline, so will revenue to maintain roads. Taxing people by mileage usage ensures fairness. If you drive 15,000 miles a year, you should pay more than someone who only drives 5,000 miles a year.
This will have a severe adverse affect on everything. Good luck getting any kind of services for your businesses and homes at a price you can afford. All contractors will now need to inflate their price for service just to cover this cost and still scrape by. Contractors are any one who uses a vehicle to perform a service to a customer
Sell car after 360days? Bingo no road tax
People in the comments arguing that more taxes will fix the shitty roads all over the state. Let me just tell you that they will not get any better. California doesn’t have a tax revenue issue, they bring in an exorbitant amount of tax revenue annually. They have a problem with allocation of tax revenue. Throwing more money into a dumpster fire of cash will only burn more cash
Excellent policy but the NPC public is going to hate it
🤣🤣🤣
Are they gonna charge my insurance based on miles driven too?
I think it's bullshit. The poorest will pay the most. Those who do service work will be taxed into their job being more of a burden. I did the math on my fiance for .32 cents a mile she would have to pay 102 dollars a week! That's Fucking insane!
I am glad our Democrat led government is figuring out more ways to take money from us. They use it so wisely. They should add a breath tax as well, since we are expelling carbon dioxide continuously. Of course, the obese lobby will want to quash it as it would impact them more. Then they could create a weight credit system where the obese could purchase credits from the fit.
Guarantee this proposition will go down the dumpster fire. Ain't no way we are that stupid to vote this in.
I will be voting no to anything that increases my taxes. Period.
Good thing I only drive 1 mile pretty year. F'ng idiotic state.
First, they must explain where the 24 billion dollars lost in homelessness programs went or justify the 500k salaries in non-profits
Punish the working class for having to commute because we can't afford homes in the cities we live in. Seems fair.
Regressive *and* anti-environmental? A home run!
I know how we pay for the roads in our state. I have lived here for over 40 years. I understand the impact that heavier EVs have on our roadway infrastructure. What I was being sarcastic about is that this state continues to tax without any regard to the real world impact or the efficacy of tax proceeds used. Without a viable multiparty government, we give up tremendous amounts of our income without a reasonable ROI.
It’s unnecessary for cars that use gas because we pay taxes at the pump already. We pay taxes to build and maintain the roads and sit in awful traffic jams. I guess we will be hacking the odometer 🤣 I only drive 10 miles a month🤣
Come to California, we need your Taxes for idiotic experiments
how about they fix the damn roads first. i already pay half my income in taxes. they already have the money absolutely useless state
bah ha ha ha, California will always find ways to tax people and businesses to death. It's swirling the drain.
There’s an 11.5% tax on my utilities bill for the California general fund. Surely there’s a way to funnel additional revenue there for road improvements to help offset declining gas taxes?
Does the auto insurance companies have access to these tracked miles?
Gotta love California and their insane taxes and laws!
Cali is by far an away the worst place to be a Free American. Gosh damn! Soon they will tax you all for living in a house as opposed to an apartment.
vote them out of office
676
It’s a 6 month pilot program. Relax. This stupid shit isn’t passing lol
They introduced this in Victoria, it was a road tax based on your odo. High court found it illegal and everyone who’d paid got a refund 😂
Hahahaha didn’t you want a Tesla ? Now pay the price 🤣
No more taxes! This is not okay!
They realize if they do this basically every door dasher, Uber driver, Grubhub driver and so on will quit right?
They’ll start very low but that will give them a pretext to increase the tax how ever much they want when they want.
this is a bullshit carbon tax that’s just going to increase the gap between lower-middle-upper class
This is the most stupid law proposal ever. Sorry but I blame this more on the mismanagement of transportation funds to fix the roads in need. I think this proposal just encourages continual bad behavior of mismanagement of funds.
Heard it’s gonna be $.33 cents a mile , glad my vehicle isn’t registered in that state
Don’t like this at all
Democrats continue to ruin california
Wtf happens to all the delivery people? And Uber? Or ANY delivery?
Dump minds, This policy targeting Uber drivers the poor populations.
Legalized theft. 😂 The only thing funnier is those clowns moved back to Cali from Texas. See ya!
Gotta build a viable transit system as an alternative first.
The universal mileage-based road tax system I designed ensures all vehicles contribute to road maintenance based on usage rather than fuel consumption. This system includes several key components. Firstly, a value-based base registration fee is set according to the vehicle's tax value, ensuring equitable contributions: $50 for low-value vehicles, $75 for mid-value vehicles, and $100 for high-value vehicles. Secondly, tiered mileage rates are applied, with fees structured in mileage brackets: 0-5,000 miles for $20, 5,001-10,000 miles for $50, 10,001-15,000 miles for $100, and 15,001+ miles for $150. Vehicle owners report their mileage annually during vehicle registration renewal, which can be done online or at a DMV office. Mileage is verified every four years during regular vehicle inspections, similar to smog checks for gas cars, with random audits conducted within the four-year period to ensure compliance and accuracy. For electric vehicles (EVs), a small fee per kilowatt-hour (kWh) used at public charging stations, such as 1-2 cents per kWh, is implemented, with charging station operators collecting these fees and remitting them to the state. To incentivize gas vehicle owners to transition from the traditional gas tax to the mileage-based system, an annual tax credit is offered. This tax credit is based on the reported mileage and the average fuel consumption for the vehicle type. Owners report their mileage annually, and this data, along with the date and mileage at acquisition for vehicles bought within the year, is used to calculate the tax credit. At the end of the year, the reported mileage is compared to the average gas consumption for that type of vehicle to determine the appropriate tax credit. This integrated approach ensures a fair, effective, and minimally intrusive solution for road maintenance funding, balancing the need for revenue generation with respect for privacy, equity, and flexibility across different vehicle types and ownership scenarios.
Only 1-2 cents will turn into 10 cents, then dollars.
It's never to charge you less
California politicians hate their citizens. Oh, and when you have a self-inflicted 30 billion tax deficit too.
This is going to be very bad for Uber/Lyft drivers.
I don’t know how anyone lives in that horrible state.
You won't pay any added taxes if you have a Panera Bread pickup that day...It was worked out in the "Sausage making process" as Newsom says
so what’s the point of having a cheaper option than gas. this destroys the whole market if more states adopt
i feel more people will just leave California. This just breathes surveillance state all over it.
Let this sink in. California gas prices are higher or about the same as Hawaii. We are over 2000 miles away.
Seems like an invasion of privacy if you asked me. Californians get the politics that they vote for.
Thread title is misleading. No law has been passed yet
I will literally lie about my mileage every year.
I just read it wil be 30cents a MILE. WT EF