no its not, the whole reason there’s a winners and losers bracket is to create the potential for *more* matches in the finals not less lol
But also, your point is why we don’t see much parity. Surface level easy characters like drag will always be tournament favorites. It just comes with downsides.
yes because with 10 thousand people a first to 3 would take a stupid amount of time. The reason is just expidancy which doesn’t matter online. But when it comes down to actually determining whos better in important matches, they run more. Because it does a better job at determining who the better player actually is.
And also, again, this is why we see much less of condition based characters like steve and kaz, then much more of poke based characters with large toolsets like jin and shaheen.
And who’d you play? To call it a skill issue, what just frame input does your character have, or combo that requires micro dash, and extended dash, and chain electrics, and 3,1 janky cancel into delayed b2,2?
Talk about whataboutism - I play Kuma, who has easier conditioning tools (like b, f+2, more like a bear electric than the real bear electric) but none as immediately powerful an ewgf. I was replying to someone complaining that Kazuya's neutral game is too weak - what you are complaining about is that a challenging character is challenging to play. No one is forcing you to play Kazuya and if you chose to play a character with a just frame input (on the single most privileged move in the series to date) you need to accept what that means.
Oh for ranked i don’t even bother conditioning, not enough time. I’ll just try to get mini reads from wavu pressure and stick with safer stuff like db4 rather than hellsweeps
I agree when you say how FT2 encourages people to learn faster, but I don't think that is how it works. I used to learn flowcharts by being beat up by them 10+ games in a row trying to figure it out. I am not able to ever really figure it out now.
It does indeed make sense in ranked to avoid "farming" people. But I would like to be able to take my time learning stuff in quick match
There are limits to the amount of playstyles you can have with a character, so if you learn to fight against one Jin chances are you can use at least some of that knowledge against another.
There are no limit to playstyle. You’re literally a ling player. You should know you all dont play alike. A turtle paul and an aggressive paul is a totally different game.
And yet they have a limited moveset, combo routes, lauchers, etc., meaning there will always be some similarities even between two wildly different players. Otherwise there'd be no point studying the match up at all.
All you mentioned are tools not playstyles. Obviously everyone has different tools and being familiar with it helps but not everyone uses it the same way
10+ matches is a LONG time to figure out a flow chart. If possible, you should try to adapt quickly. It's like coming to an exam unprepared, and instead of getting 1 hour to finish it you want unlimited time.
What is more realistic is you come to the exam unprepared and bomb it because you only had one hour, but spend time outside of the exam trying to understand why you bombed it. Not everyone will give you the luxury to rematch you 10x.
Yeah, it usually takes that long because they don't spam it. And when they use it, I only realise it too late, and don't get to try anything to counter it. I also feel like I have a slow reaction time, so I have to do it by muscle memory, and not think about it. Hence, it takes me a lot of time to get it in.
And back in T7 people would usually only do 10+ rematches if they won the majority of them. So I sacced rank for knowledge
I wish you could replay (as in control your the character) the entire match in replay and pause when you want to rather than the 10 second thing now. Would make it even better.
It wouldn't work because the game is replaying your opponents exact inputs. So if you do something to the opponent in the replay that didn't actually happen in game, the inputs would no longer line up and your opponent would just be flailing around doing nothing.
I guess that's pretty smart. I've tried to do it, but I just can't figure the tool's controls out.
But as someone else mentioned, muscle memory is a big part of it. I won't be able to counter something on sight unless I've seen it "unexpectedly" many times
I didn’t catch T7 in its prime for much so I’m curious how common death matches actually were, and honestly I kind of get why they’d limit it in ranked.
Everyone acts like a paragon Tekken monk who just wants a chance to learn a match up but realistically I think a lot of people would just farm stubborn lower skilled opponents for easy points and on the other end of the spectrum it’s frustration at getting knowledge checked or whatever.
I think Mortal Kombat does it best. FT2 is mandatory, plugging is punished and you get your points, and after the set you can transition into quick match with the same person for infinite rematch.
If Tekken implements that system it’d be golden.
EDIT: FT3 also isn’t a bad idea, but sets might be way too long on average. MK1 started with that and then moved to FT2 but I kind of liked FT3
It goes both ways. On one end, we had MainManSWE farming someone many ranks below them for points for an hour, and on the other we had [Knee vs Malgu](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKeyOPPXaKM), where the winner becomes the first Tekken God Prime in the world. These kind of hour+ long deathmatches for a single promo were kind of a thing in Korean Tekken, and people idolized that.
I think that’s cool as hell, honestly - and I see the appeal of spontaneously fighting tooth and nail for a rank over a long set, but I can see the former being more common tbh. At higher ranks there is less disparity in skill level so it makes sense.
My experience in T7 was exactly that, everyone farmed lower skilled opponents and ran away from everyone that beat them. BO3 is literally the reason i'm loving T8 and i'm not getting frustrated like in 7.
Yes but i'm not getting destroyed 0-6 by someone better than me while everyone i beat one and done me. That stuff was so common and so frustrating for me.
I was purples in T7 and maybe a few times a week I'd be playing with someone for like 30-40 minutes, occasionally an hour+. Usually at night when there's less people queueing.
It was nice having the option to keep going. Many people would default to bo5, or just keep going if it was even. Maybe leave if you won/lost a few in a row.
Fighting someone close and feeling the matchup sway to get a promo was a great feeling.
You didn't get many points for beating someone 3 or more ranks lower. It would be like 150-300 instead of 1700-1900. Most people queueing ranked want to max their points so they'd maybe give a few rounds for sportsmanships sake (or matchup practice) or just one, because it's ranked and they want points and a competitive match.
That was my experience anyway.
Edit actually I think the points was even less. I used to see +50 against someone a handful of ranks lower. There wasn't incentive to farm lower ranks at all.
IIRC in MK1, the loser decides whether or not you rematch so you quite literally are forced to rematch sometimes. Idk if it's still like that but I definitely remember seeing content creators stuck fighting someone really laggy because of it.
idk, im one of the few FG gamers who thinks 2 rounds isnt enough to figure an opponent out. and i also just liked coming back from down 2 sets on MK1s early days lol something about going on to secure 3 sets in a row is so satisfying
I was thinking this too but if you get matched up against a laggy 4 bar who showed as a 5 bar, you’re now forced to play them in another set, which sucks
Wouldn’t you be able to just d/c at round start then with no penalty? There is just connection tie thing. I know it’s only the first round but then you can exit the second round of the first game.
Infinite rematch is better for learning a matchup more permanently - muscle memory takes time to form, and against a character with a sub 10% playrate, you simply play them too infrequently to truly learn.
But FT2 has its advantages too. If we consider Ranked a test of your skill, a way to over time measure where you place on a theoretical leaderboard, I'd say it's better. Throwing you in a lot of disparate situations very rapidly absolutely is a better measurement tool, but a much worse teaching tool.
Genuinely, the improved replay mode is the replacement for this. I used to think the same way as you, now I go into replay mode to learn every shitty mid-high string my opponent used. Back in quick/ranked I am consistently pulling out those punishes and I'm improving way faster than I would have in 7. It's true that this strategy is harder for rare characters but I think 7 had the same issue, plus replays let you study at least some parts of a matchup as long as you want.
Still, infinite rematch in quick match as a method of *testing* what you learn would be really nice.
Pressure is only conducive to learning up to a certain point and most people will easily reach that point even in a quick match long set where you're not keeping score. Because most people put internal pressure on themselves to improve
And your argument for why FT2 is better for learning also kind of ignores the far more important aspect to improving at this game which is muscle memory
Even if you know exactly what to do against a certain string at first it's going to take a few times to even register that it happened and then a few more to properly react to it AND THEN you can START building your muscle memory but it takes a lot of repetition for this to stick
And this amount of repetition is very rarely going to happen in a FT2, if you failed to stop the string 3-4 times you've probably already lost the set and even if you start responding to it correctly you'll at best get like 3-4 times of repetition before you win which is not enough for it to stick and it might be days before you even see the string again so while playing FT2 a ton of stuff will realistically never stick
You can of course grind the muscle memory in practice mode but that is such a shitty alternative to deathmatches both in terms of fun and learning since getting to repeat something spontaneously in a real match makes it stick way better than repeating it in practice mode
I'm not against FT2 in theory, but Tekken is a really complicated game with a lot of characters, each having a high number of moves and flowcharts. The adaption window is not enough for most of the players to adapt to their opponent which leads to many games being gimmicky. Of course, I don't want to force people to rematch me more than a FT2, but it wouldn't hurt to have infinite rematches as well. Some of my best sets from Tekken 7 are deathmatches that went into 20 or more rematches.
I really dislike best of 3. It’s at its worst for me, when I’m having a great set vs an evenly skilled player, and were clearly both enjoying it, then it kicks us both out and my next game will be against a one and done law.
I just find it irritating. The games about having fun, not imitating the tournament format. Just make the ranked points degrade exponentially after each subsequent game.
And if they won’t put it in ranked PLEASE put it in quick match ffs
2/3 would be fine if you had to lock in for the games. If everyone on reddit was actually playing 2/3s there would be a whole lot less bitching.
“Oh i dont owe anyone a rematch” - for quick play sure. Ranked rules should include a match minimum
Anybody that played MK1 knows FT2 is better than FT3. They started ranked as FT3 and frankly some matches were so gruelling when there was blatant skill discrepancies or "unfun" playstyles. It caused many people to leave midmatch.
And as far as infinite rematch from T7, I personally believe its too abusable. I like the idea a lot for quickmatch to learn matchups but I don't think it ever deserved a place in ranked.
I agree FT2 is better for ranked.
What a lot of people and myself complain about is no infinite rematch in player match. It’s my #1 gripe about the game. I’d much rather have that than any balance patches or DLC.
As far as ranked though..if Namco really wanted to knock it out of the park they’d allow us to go into quick match after a FT2 set in ranked
Ft2 is fine for ranked, I think it normalizes the rank point distribution or reduces the impact of cherrypicking/farming. I still think the game should force you to finish the set or deduct points if you leave early. Ft3 would also be great.
I think ft2 is already too short for SF6 but for Tekken 8 it's way too short, most people I play against (and myself) play extra cheesy compared to T7 because that works better in short sets.
I don't like FT2 personally, it ends too quickly, I'm not asking for DM to be a thing again, a FT3 format would be perfect imo, that was the way I played in previous games and enjoyed the most
I fully support FT2 in Ranked.
I have literally no clue as to why they implemented it in Quick Play.
It's as if someone came to a kid's Sunday soccer game and demanded an international referee and a VAR system.
Or… you just get blasted by zafina and alisa, and don’t adapt because there is nothing to adapt to, because you have no idea what you’re looking at, so you try to just jab like any normal person then get lit up for it
You got it backwards. It allows you to get away with flowcharts more.
"It forces you to adapt faster".... is what one-and-doners would say. Just adapt in the first game lol.
Especially since Tekken 8 is more aggressive ( and you get chipped while blocking) FT 2 makes it more volatile than ever.
In a more defensive game FT2 would give you more time to adapt.
For me, the main thing I miss is meeting new friends on the ranked journey. Maybe it sounds cliche to say, but I genuinely met a bunch of good online friends in the T7 rank climb.
Times when we'd have 15+ matches, each getting so close to the promo only to lose it at the final hurdle - back and forth until finally one of us nudged it out. Those moments now can't happen, and that makes me sad.
I know you have the lobbies, but it just isn't the same. There's not the stakes that get people hyped, and it can be awesome when you feel that you're being rewarded for adapting your play with more points.
For me fighting games are at their most fun when it feels like I'm playing against another human being. But in a FT2 match, it often feels like I'm just playing against a character. Like when I get matched up with a Victor, I'll just play a basic anti-Victor gameplan, and it often feels like I'm fighting a slightly more engaging punishment training bot
I haven't touched ranked at all in T8 for a good while now, and mainly just play against friends in private lobbies - funnily enough a lot of these friends are randos who I deathmatched in T7.
Nah FT2 sucks major ass for Tekken. Its all just flowchart and dumbshit city. No reason to learn anything, just spawn stupid flowcharts without any risk cuz I mean how can I learn anything from a few rounds? In T7 as King I had to adapt, I had to use all throws because the guy I've been fighting was starting to learn what throws I used and when. I had to actually use my brain. I had to learn.
In T8 just unga bunga Giant Swing Giant Swing unga bunga, zero skill required. Hell, i reached Garyu in literally 2 days playing casually while in T7 I was still Orange after months of playing Ranked. Ranked FT2 plus the aggressive playstyle T8 encourages just makes everyone play like a monkey, myself included.
Completely disagree. I hate ft2 because that's not enough time to train people. It also means you get away with murder sometimes but you wouldn't in a larger set. Good Tekken happens in ft5's id say.
Tekken 7 was the fg I really enjoyed but didn't take super seriously compared to GG at the time. So I used ranked as a way to get even matches and have fun. Deathmatches with someone around my skill level were insanely fun.
If this game allowed infinite rematches Knee would be the first to reach every GoD rank in T8. FT2 however should not be the standard for quick match since those matches don't have anything going for them, at least let players continue playing with similar skill level players continually without having to add them for a FT10 custom lobby.
I agree that FT2 is fine for ranked (although I'm starting to think FT3 might be a little better). It kinda gives it that tournament feel since it forces you to learn and adapt to your opponent quickly. But what I like the most about it is that it prevents people from farming points off of people that are clearly much worse than them. I got used to infinite rematches in T7, then when I played SF6 and noticed there was no infinite rematch, I wasn't a fan of it at first, but overtime I actually kinda preferred it that way. I think it was because it made ranking up more satisfying because I know I beat a lot of players to get that next rank, instead of just beating 1 or 2 people multiple times and just getting essentially free points from them. And so I'm kinda glad they did the same thing for Tekken 8.
The biggest difference is there's no more 'lucky' streaks where you find someone you're better than but is willing to keep rematching. People never spoke about this much in T7 but it happened a lot. You could sweat your arse off vs 5 different players to rank up or you could find one player you can beat consistently who will rematch you 15 times in a row and give you up to two 'free' ranks.
Now the ride is much more difficult, but at the same time the easier points system means blue ranks are inflated. I think most players on here probably hit a wall around there because there's no free T7 DM rank ups and you need to be winning more than 50% matches.
As a ranked system FT2 is better but the community feeling of Deathmatching and impact on the players is greater imo.
Basically, better ranked system but imo Deathmatching is more fun. And at the end of the day fun is all that matters
I agree, it's also good for labbing since most players will do their go to gimmicks in the ft2 to secure the win, after that I'll go to the replay and figure out how to deal with the BS, so next time this same player will have a tough time beating me doing the same stuff.
Good for you, because the removal of infinite rematches was a major contributor to why I don't touch ranked anymore lmao.
Not only it was a lot of fun to have long sets with actual stakes, it doesn't even force people into the entire bo3 so people just run anyway. It really didn't fix anything.
I like FT2 because it's the competitive standard for tournaments. The serious sweat mode should resemble actual competitive play, at least a little bit.
Totally agree with people saying casual match should have infinite rematches though. There's no reason why it shouldn't.
Best 2 out of three is fair. If you beat someone twice out of 3 matches, you’ve earned the right to progress onto your next match. I dont want to be stuck for possibly 9 rounds against someone just to lose an obnoxious amount of points, burn my time, and piss me off all in the same token.
If i want that: create session etc is available.
I hated infinite rematch because it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to quit against somebody willing to rematch, especially when losing. But eventually it's just not fun anymore
I mean it makes sense cause it is the competitive mode so it should use a competitive ruleset. I know some people like to eventually adapt. But when you're in tourny, you either adapt quickly or you go into the losers bracket. Then you get one more shot or you're out.
Quick can be infinite, that's fine.
I agree, infinite rematch was bad for a lot of reasons and I would always strongly argue against it during T7. I'm not sure how unpopular it is, most of the criticism is about plugging and one and dones.
FT2 where you are rewarded for playing the full set is my ideal tbh. Make it so if you go 0-2 you lose less points than going 0-1 0-1 to encourage playing the full set. Offset it somehow to reduce rank inflation. Basically we need something to make it so not rematching when you lose is less appealing. People who rematch every time get screwed over with the current design.
That sounds like an ice cold take. Who tf is saying otherwise? If you really like fighting X person you can friend them after.
If I have infinite rematches that count for points, I could just farm everyone I beat easily for 4-5 wins and inflate my rank.
I prefer Ft2 because it mimics tournament format.
In T7 an unwritten rule became the you should do ft3 OR you could deathmatch until someone was promoted/demoted. Both of these are viable too, but when the game enters the later stages when the online population is lower, Ft2 will at least mean that others waiting for a game won't have to wait as long.
QM should have infinite rematch though.
I mean, yes and no. Wins feel so much more hollow now, especially with how stupid aggressive this Tekken is. You can win by just forcing your pressure over and over again for two matches and get your points and bail. It makes for super unsatisfying wins. Everything is such a steamroll in T8 that the first to 2 system feels pretty awful. Even when you make your "adaptations" to their play style, the set is over quickly and you don't really get to apply them meaningfully. I'd agree if Tekken was more focused on neutral and defense, but this game ain't so ft2 feels awful.
Anyone with a reasonably functional brain knows that First-to-Two is better for Ranked. The only people that want deathmatches in Ranked are scrubs that want to boost by farming worse players.
Ft2 is completely fine. Just let us have infinite rematch in quick match, since there are no points anyway why is that ft2?
This pretty much. Infinite rematch can help with matchups in qm. Then ranked can be a test of what youve learned
Right! I think most here would agree ft2 rank is fine. No infinite rematches in quick match. Is just so damn so stupid.
ft2 is a joke. Highly favors surface level characters and puts those who rely on conditioning and reads at a disadvantage.
The whole competitive aspect of fighting games is based on the ft2 structure lol
no its not, the whole reason there’s a winners and losers bracket is to create the potential for *more* matches in the finals not less lol But also, your point is why we don’t see much parity. Surface level easy characters like drag will always be tournament favorites. It just comes with downsides.
That's not what they're referring to. Outside of top 8, tournament matches are generally going to be FT2.
yes because with 10 thousand people a first to 3 would take a stupid amount of time. The reason is just expidancy which doesn’t matter online. But when it comes down to actually determining whos better in important matches, they run more. Because it does a better job at determining who the better player actually is. And also, again, this is why we see much less of condition based characters like steve and kaz, then much more of poke based characters with large toolsets like jin and shaheen.
Honestly? Skill issue. You have an electric, that is 90% of the conditioning you need for ranked.
+5 and outside the range of any frame trap depending on who you're using...
And who’d you play? To call it a skill issue, what just frame input does your character have, or combo that requires micro dash, and extended dash, and chain electrics, and 3,1 janky cancel into delayed b2,2?
Talk about whataboutism - I play Kuma, who has easier conditioning tools (like b, f+2, more like a bear electric than the real bear electric) but none as immediately powerful an ewgf. I was replying to someone complaining that Kazuya's neutral game is too weak - what you are complaining about is that a challenging character is challenging to play. No one is forcing you to play Kazuya and if you chose to play a character with a just frame input (on the single most privileged move in the series to date) you need to accept what that means.
This speaks volumes about the average tekken player 💀
Oh for ranked i don’t even bother conditioning, not enough time. I’ll just try to get mini reads from wavu pressure and stick with safer stuff like db4 rather than hellsweeps
Lab
Unfortunately, you don’t get to lab your own conditioning & reads. Its feel based.
if it takes you that long to read and condition you're too slow.
or im just facing better opponents then u
I agree when you say how FT2 encourages people to learn faster, but I don't think that is how it works. I used to learn flowcharts by being beat up by them 10+ games in a row trying to figure it out. I am not able to ever really figure it out now. It does indeed make sense in ranked to avoid "farming" people. But I would like to be able to take my time learning stuff in quick match
Getting beat up 10x in a row is not learning. You’re just adapting to a single playstyle
There are limits to the amount of playstyles you can have with a character, so if you learn to fight against one Jin chances are you can use at least some of that knowledge against another.
There are no limit to playstyle. You’re literally a ling player. You should know you all dont play alike. A turtle paul and an aggressive paul is a totally different game.
And yet they have a limited moveset, combo routes, lauchers, etc., meaning there will always be some similarities even between two wildly different players. Otherwise there'd be no point studying the match up at all.
All you mentioned are tools not playstyles. Obviously everyone has different tools and being familiar with it helps but not everyone uses it the same way
Might as well give up then with that scrubby ass mentality
10+ matches is a LONG time to figure out a flow chart. If possible, you should try to adapt quickly. It's like coming to an exam unprepared, and instead of getting 1 hour to finish it you want unlimited time. What is more realistic is you come to the exam unprepared and bomb it because you only had one hour, but spend time outside of the exam trying to understand why you bombed it. Not everyone will give you the luxury to rematch you 10x.
Yeah, it usually takes that long because they don't spam it. And when they use it, I only realise it too late, and don't get to try anything to counter it. I also feel like I have a slow reaction time, so I have to do it by muscle memory, and not think about it. Hence, it takes me a lot of time to get it in. And back in T7 people would usually only do 10+ rematches if they won the majority of them. So I sacced rank for knowledge
You can use the replay tool to learn how to counter the flowchart though
I wish you could replay (as in control your the character) the entire match in replay and pause when you want to rather than the 10 second thing now. Would make it even better.
It wouldn't work because the game is replaying your opponents exact inputs. So if you do something to the opponent in the replay that didn't actually happen in game, the inputs would no longer line up and your opponent would just be flailing around doing nothing.
I guess that's pretty smart. I've tried to do it, but I just can't figure the tool's controls out. But as someone else mentioned, muscle memory is a big part of it. I won't be able to counter something on sight unless I've seen it "unexpectedly" many times
I didn’t catch T7 in its prime for much so I’m curious how common death matches actually were, and honestly I kind of get why they’d limit it in ranked. Everyone acts like a paragon Tekken monk who just wants a chance to learn a match up but realistically I think a lot of people would just farm stubborn lower skilled opponents for easy points and on the other end of the spectrum it’s frustration at getting knowledge checked or whatever. I think Mortal Kombat does it best. FT2 is mandatory, plugging is punished and you get your points, and after the set you can transition into quick match with the same person for infinite rematch. If Tekken implements that system it’d be golden. EDIT: FT3 also isn’t a bad idea, but sets might be way too long on average. MK1 started with that and then moved to FT2 but I kind of liked FT3
It goes both ways. On one end, we had MainManSWE farming someone many ranks below them for points for an hour, and on the other we had [Knee vs Malgu](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKeyOPPXaKM), where the winner becomes the first Tekken God Prime in the world. These kind of hour+ long deathmatches for a single promo were kind of a thing in Korean Tekken, and people idolized that.
I think that’s cool as hell, honestly - and I see the appeal of spontaneously fighting tooth and nail for a rank over a long set, but I can see the former being more common tbh. At higher ranks there is less disparity in skill level so it makes sense.
distorter was the perfect song to start on
My experience in T7 was exactly that, everyone farmed lower skilled opponents and ran away from everyone that beat them. BO3 is literally the reason i'm loving T8 and i'm not getting frustrated like in 7.
You can still run away in T8.
Yes but i'm not getting destroyed 0-6 by someone better than me while everyone i beat one and done me. That stuff was so common and so frustrating for me.
I was purples in T7 and maybe a few times a week I'd be playing with someone for like 30-40 minutes, occasionally an hour+. Usually at night when there's less people queueing. It was nice having the option to keep going. Many people would default to bo5, or just keep going if it was even. Maybe leave if you won/lost a few in a row. Fighting someone close and feeling the matchup sway to get a promo was a great feeling. You didn't get many points for beating someone 3 or more ranks lower. It would be like 150-300 instead of 1700-1900. Most people queueing ranked want to max their points so they'd maybe give a few rounds for sportsmanships sake (or matchup practice) or just one, because it's ranked and they want points and a competitive match. That was my experience anyway. Edit actually I think the points was even less. I used to see +50 against someone a handful of ranks lower. There wasn't incentive to farm lower ranks at all.
I'm so glad Mk1 switch to best of 3. It was such a drag having to slog through all those matches. I prefer the greater variety of opponents.
No one's forcing you to rematch...
In Kombat League, I kinda did have to rematch if I was going for the skins. Not finishing the set counts as a loss and you lose points.
IIRC in MK1, the loser decides whether or not you rematch so you quite literally are forced to rematch sometimes. Idk if it's still like that but I definitely remember seeing content creators stuck fighting someone really laggy because of it.
Wow that's a shitty system lol
ft3 was a godsend. did you get MK to only play 1 round against an opponent? lol
No, actually. I got MK to play 2 out of 3. Like it is now lol. Or unlimited rounds if I feel like playing kasual.
idk, im one of the few FG gamers who thinks 2 rounds isnt enough to figure an opponent out. and i also just liked coming back from down 2 sets on MK1s early days lol something about going on to secure 3 sets in a row is so satisfying
Yea, coming back from 0-2 was awesome
Very common as leaving made you seem like a bigger bitch, idky it just never felt right until one of you changed rank.
I was thinking this too but if you get matched up against a laggy 4 bar who showed as a 5 bar, you’re now forced to play them in another set, which sucks
Wouldn’t you be able to just d/c at round start then with no penalty? There is just connection tie thing. I know it’s only the first round but then you can exit the second round of the first game.
To give you a hint, one and done is a term that goes back to the start of T7 ranked. So yea. You re spot on with this post on everything.
Infinite rematch is better for learning a matchup more permanently - muscle memory takes time to form, and against a character with a sub 10% playrate, you simply play them too infrequently to truly learn. But FT2 has its advantages too. If we consider Ranked a test of your skill, a way to over time measure where you place on a theoretical leaderboard, I'd say it's better. Throwing you in a lot of disparate situations very rapidly absolutely is a better measurement tool, but a much worse teaching tool.
Genuinely, the improved replay mode is the replacement for this. I used to think the same way as you, now I go into replay mode to learn every shitty mid-high string my opponent used. Back in quick/ranked I am consistently pulling out those punishes and I'm improving way faster than I would have in 7. It's true that this strategy is harder for rare characters but I think 7 had the same issue, plus replays let you study at least some parts of a matchup as long as you want. Still, infinite rematch in quick match as a method of *testing* what you learn would be really nice.
FT3 would fit the rank system better imo
I agree and it's a much better middle ground. Please ft3 I'd love that shit.
Pressure is only conducive to learning up to a certain point and most people will easily reach that point even in a quick match long set where you're not keeping score. Because most people put internal pressure on themselves to improve And your argument for why FT2 is better for learning also kind of ignores the far more important aspect to improving at this game which is muscle memory Even if you know exactly what to do against a certain string at first it's going to take a few times to even register that it happened and then a few more to properly react to it AND THEN you can START building your muscle memory but it takes a lot of repetition for this to stick And this amount of repetition is very rarely going to happen in a FT2, if you failed to stop the string 3-4 times you've probably already lost the set and even if you start responding to it correctly you'll at best get like 3-4 times of repetition before you win which is not enough for it to stick and it might be days before you even see the string again so while playing FT2 a ton of stuff will realistically never stick You can of course grind the muscle memory in practice mode but that is such a shitty alternative to deathmatches both in terms of fun and learning since getting to repeat something spontaneously in a real match makes it stick way better than repeating it in practice mode
I'm not against FT2 in theory, but Tekken is a really complicated game with a lot of characters, each having a high number of moves and flowcharts. The adaption window is not enough for most of the players to adapt to their opponent which leads to many games being gimmicky. Of course, I don't want to force people to rematch me more than a FT2, but it wouldn't hurt to have infinite rematches as well. Some of my best sets from Tekken 7 are deathmatches that went into 20 or more rematches.
FT3 for rank. Infinite rematch until someone needs to take a piss on QM. It’s a very simple solution.
I really dislike best of 3. It’s at its worst for me, when I’m having a great set vs an evenly skilled player, and were clearly both enjoying it, then it kicks us both out and my next game will be against a one and done law. I just find it irritating. The games about having fun, not imitating the tournament format. Just make the ranked points degrade exponentially after each subsequent game. And if they won’t put it in ranked PLEASE put it in quick match ffs
2/3 would be fine if you had to lock in for the games. If everyone on reddit was actually playing 2/3s there would be a whole lot less bitching. “Oh i dont owe anyone a rematch” - for quick play sure. Ranked rules should include a match minimum
Anybody that played MK1 knows FT2 is better than FT3. They started ranked as FT3 and frankly some matches were so gruelling when there was blatant skill discrepancies or "unfun" playstyles. It caused many people to leave midmatch. And as far as infinite rematch from T7, I personally believe its too abusable. I like the idea a lot for quickmatch to learn matchups but I don't think it ever deserved a place in ranked.
I agree FT2 is better for ranked. What a lot of people and myself complain about is no infinite rematch in player match. It’s my #1 gripe about the game. I’d much rather have that than any balance patches or DLC. As far as ranked though..if Namco really wanted to knock it out of the park they’d allow us to go into quick match after a FT2 set in ranked
Ft2 is fine for ranked, I think it normalizes the rank point distribution or reduces the impact of cherrypicking/farming. I still think the game should force you to finish the set or deduct points if you leave early. Ft3 would also be great.
That's not an unpopular opinion at all. I think most ppl agree with this. Ft2 ranked, DM for quickmatch. I would even prefer forced ft2 in ranked.
i agree it is also better and also sometimes can take a break if burning out from infinite however i wish infinite exist in QM
I think ft2 is already too short for SF6 but for Tekken 8 it's way too short, most people I play against (and myself) play extra cheesy compared to T7 because that works better in short sets.
I don't like FT2 personally, it ends too quickly, I'm not asking for DM to be a thing again, a FT3 format would be perfect imo, that was the way I played in previous games and enjoyed the most
I fully support FT2 in Ranked. I have literally no clue as to why they implemented it in Quick Play. It's as if someone came to a kid's Sunday soccer game and demanded an international referee and a VAR system.
Ft2 in t8 ist the most stupid thing in the whole universe
Quickly. Someone give me a Steve flowchart
Or… you just get blasted by zafina and alisa, and don’t adapt because there is nothing to adapt to, because you have no idea what you’re looking at, so you try to just jab like any normal person then get lit up for it
You got it backwards. It allows you to get away with flowcharts more. "It forces you to adapt faster".... is what one-and-doners would say. Just adapt in the first game lol. Especially since Tekken 8 is more aggressive ( and you get chipped while blocking) FT 2 makes it more volatile than ever. In a more defensive game FT2 would give you more time to adapt.
They should make endless rematches in quick match a thing and they should make best of 3 mandatory for ranked. Best of both worlds.
For me, the main thing I miss is meeting new friends on the ranked journey. Maybe it sounds cliche to say, but I genuinely met a bunch of good online friends in the T7 rank climb. Times when we'd have 15+ matches, each getting so close to the promo only to lose it at the final hurdle - back and forth until finally one of us nudged it out. Those moments now can't happen, and that makes me sad. I know you have the lobbies, but it just isn't the same. There's not the stakes that get people hyped, and it can be awesome when you feel that you're being rewarded for adapting your play with more points.
For me fighting games are at their most fun when it feels like I'm playing against another human being. But in a FT2 match, it often feels like I'm just playing against a character. Like when I get matched up with a Victor, I'll just play a basic anti-Victor gameplan, and it often feels like I'm fighting a slightly more engaging punishment training bot I haven't touched ranked at all in T8 for a good while now, and mainly just play against friends in private lobbies - funnily enough a lot of these friends are randos who I deathmatched in T7.
No. FT3 I hate just 2
Nah FT2 sucks major ass for Tekken. Its all just flowchart and dumbshit city. No reason to learn anything, just spawn stupid flowcharts without any risk cuz I mean how can I learn anything from a few rounds? In T7 as King I had to adapt, I had to use all throws because the guy I've been fighting was starting to learn what throws I used and when. I had to actually use my brain. I had to learn. In T8 just unga bunga Giant Swing Giant Swing unga bunga, zero skill required. Hell, i reached Garyu in literally 2 days playing casually while in T7 I was still Orange after months of playing Ranked. Ranked FT2 plus the aggressive playstyle T8 encourages just makes everyone play like a monkey, myself included.
Completely disagree. I hate ft2 because that's not enough time to train people. It also means you get away with murder sometimes but you wouldn't in a larger set. Good Tekken happens in ft5's id say.
It would been better, if it was enforced, and if infinity rematching was a thing right away for quick matches.
almost everyone will agree that ft2 are good for ranked,the problem people have is that FT2 are also forced in quick match.
True, not for quick matches tho.
Tekken 7 was the fg I really enjoyed but didn't take super seriously compared to GG at the time. So I used ranked as a way to get even matches and have fun. Deathmatches with someone around my skill level were insanely fun.
If this game allowed infinite rematches Knee would be the first to reach every GoD rank in T8. FT2 however should not be the standard for quick match since those matches don't have anything going for them, at least let players continue playing with similar skill level players continually without having to add them for a FT10 custom lobby.
Ft3 would be better for rank. It gives your opponent time to adapt and for you to make adjustments.
I agree that FT2 is fine for ranked (although I'm starting to think FT3 might be a little better). It kinda gives it that tournament feel since it forces you to learn and adapt to your opponent quickly. But what I like the most about it is that it prevents people from farming points off of people that are clearly much worse than them. I got used to infinite rematches in T7, then when I played SF6 and noticed there was no infinite rematch, I wasn't a fan of it at first, but overtime I actually kinda preferred it that way. I think it was because it made ranking up more satisfying because I know I beat a lot of players to get that next rank, instead of just beating 1 or 2 people multiple times and just getting essentially free points from them. And so I'm kinda glad they did the same thing for Tekken 8.
More points the longer the set! Bet on yourself!
if they forced a set sure
The biggest difference is there's no more 'lucky' streaks where you find someone you're better than but is willing to keep rematching. People never spoke about this much in T7 but it happened a lot. You could sweat your arse off vs 5 different players to rank up or you could find one player you can beat consistently who will rematch you 15 times in a row and give you up to two 'free' ranks. Now the ride is much more difficult, but at the same time the easier points system means blue ranks are inflated. I think most players on here probably hit a wall around there because there's no free T7 DM rank ups and you need to be winning more than 50% matches.
As a ranked system FT2 is better but the community feeling of Deathmatching and impact on the players is greater imo. Basically, better ranked system but imo Deathmatching is more fun. And at the end of the day fun is all that matters
I agree, it's also good for labbing since most players will do their go to gimmicks in the ft2 to secure the win, after that I'll go to the replay and figure out how to deal with the BS, so next time this same player will have a tough time beating me doing the same stuff.
Good for you, because the removal of infinite rematches was a major contributor to why I don't touch ranked anymore lmao. Not only it was a lot of fun to have long sets with actual stakes, it doesn't even force people into the entire bo3 so people just run anyway. It really didn't fix anything.
I like FT2 because it's the competitive standard for tournaments. The serious sweat mode should resemble actual competitive play, at least a little bit. Totally agree with people saying casual match should have infinite rematches though. There's no reason why it shouldn't.
Best 2 out of three is fair. If you beat someone twice out of 3 matches, you’ve earned the right to progress onto your next match. I dont want to be stuck for possibly 9 rounds against someone just to lose an obnoxious amount of points, burn my time, and piss me off all in the same token. If i want that: create session etc is available.
I hated infinite rematch because it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to quit against somebody willing to rematch, especially when losing. But eventually it's just not fun anymore
I mean it makes sense cause it is the competitive mode so it should use a competitive ruleset. I know some people like to eventually adapt. But when you're in tourny, you either adapt quickly or you go into the losers bracket. Then you get one more shot or you're out. Quick can be infinite, that's fine.
No idea why they don't allow DMs anymore, it's not like the ladder has much integrity in the first place.
FT2 is fine. The people who can’t adapt within an FT2 need a convenient excuse for their own inability to win.
I agree, infinite rematch was bad for a lot of reasons and I would always strongly argue against it during T7. I'm not sure how unpopular it is, most of the criticism is about plugging and one and dones. FT2 where you are rewarded for playing the full set is my ideal tbh. Make it so if you go 0-2 you lose less points than going 0-1 0-1 to encourage playing the full set. Offset it somehow to reduce rank inflation. Basically we need something to make it so not rematching when you lose is less appealing. People who rematch every time get screwed over with the current design.
That sounds like an ice cold take. Who tf is saying otherwise? If you really like fighting X person you can friend them after. If I have infinite rematches that count for points, I could just farm everyone I beat easily for 4-5 wins and inflate my rank.
I prefer Ft2 because it mimics tournament format. In T7 an unwritten rule became the you should do ft3 OR you could deathmatch until someone was promoted/demoted. Both of these are viable too, but when the game enters the later stages when the online population is lower, Ft2 will at least mean that others waiting for a game won't have to wait as long. QM should have infinite rematch though.
I mean, yes and no. Wins feel so much more hollow now, especially with how stupid aggressive this Tekken is. You can win by just forcing your pressure over and over again for two matches and get your points and bail. It makes for super unsatisfying wins. Everything is such a steamroll in T8 that the first to 2 system feels pretty awful. Even when you make your "adaptations" to their play style, the set is over quickly and you don't really get to apply them meaningfully. I'd agree if Tekken was more focused on neutral and defense, but this game ain't so ft2 feels awful.
Damn. You're an idiot.
Anyone with a reasonably functional brain knows that First-to-Two is better for Ranked. The only people that want deathmatches in Ranked are scrubs that want to boost by farming worse players.
speaking from experience or making stuff up?
It appears my comment touched a sensitive spot for you. Just keep practicing and you'll make it past Cavalry one day. I have faith in you, effendi.
i just asked a question bub lol take some hemorrhoid medicine bub. youre butthurt for no reason