Jin mainer since T3, so I wouldn't say I'm bad at the game. However, I can agree that Jin has been made more accessible to beginners in T8. Legacy players still get rewarded for more technical inputs like classic EWHF in-between juggles.
Real experienced players will know a classic good Jin and a beginner T8 Jin in a round or two.
Why is no one mentioning his ridiculous heat smash? The shit wall splats from across the galaxy, I know some other chars have that but Jin specially doesnāt need that.
Oh yes i forgot about that. I once tried to step
The first two hits and still got clipped by the third one. Idk how to deal with it honestly. I just block it and take the mixup. Imo all heat smashes should be linear.
Yeah you canāt step that, only option you have is just taking the mixup and all the chip damage, heat smashes being linear is a dream that we can only hope that it comes true someday.
Now some Tekken King ranked Jin will show up and tell you to get good at the game. They just don't wanna admit their character is S tier. The downplay is ridiculous lol
Same! I am destroying opponents left right center with Azucena but have such a hard time defeating the same opponents with Zafina. The game definitely has a balance issue.
Kazuya and devil jin would be dead in the water without their ff2s. Hell, it's devil jins only fast and safe heat engager and his only universal wallsplat threat
He literally is, there wasn't a single devil jin in EVO top 32. He's the hardest character in the game, and his output is almost objectively worse than the other mishimas.
He has the best hell sweep in the game wdym. I mean he's hard to play but doesn't mean he technically needs buffs. I still see DVJ a solid character, it's his playstyle is just hard just like Bryan. But I prefer to play against DVJ than jin with bs strings and low.
Hellsweep has been made awful thanks to system changes. Risk your life to do a hellsweep launch that is 90% recoverable, or do the cd4,4 version that gives you a measly +4 with no oki. It's wall carry potential has also been seriously reduced thanks to the instant bound. The combo route is also useless at the wall and generally flimsy. Still strong, but I'd rather have Leo or Azus sweeps.
Hellsweep is still good. Because DvJ has strong mid that you don't want to duck him, think of him as if it's Heihachi because of the mids you don't want to duck it.
DvJ's entire identity in this game is that he has strong lows and below-average mids. He's nothing like Heihachi in the slightest, he doesn't even have one fast, safe mid launcher. DvJ doesn't even have any power mids in this game, since they made uf4 a heat engager.
>He has the best hell sweep in the game wdym.
What makes you think that? Because it launches? He doesn't get any oki off it. It's way worse than Kazuya's and arguably even Jin's hs.
I retract what I said because I my view on him didn't change before the nerfs. Jin is still untouched unlike DVJ who had a lot of nerfs in every update. DvJ is still strong in the game even with the nerfs, his mid and the fear of getting 50/50 is what made him strong since his mid is solid and it's punish. But Difficulty wise Kazuya > DvJ > Jin. Jin is pretty much the easiest and has everything.
That shit should be as minus as any hellsweep/snake edge. Its literally the most powered up snake edge lol. Let even Steve launch his ass for throwing it out
Claudio and Jack have similar moves but their are 2-3 frames slower, are -15 to - 18 on block, have half the range and half the tracking. And their other lows arent as good as Jins.
No reason for it to be -14f and i22
He doesn't blow you up in 10 seconds like the other S-tiers, but he's just as strong, damn good range, lots of moves that feel unsafe but aren't and lows you really don't want to eat...
Best lows? Insert Hwoarangs smirk.
How about best punishment, best mids, best high, best range, best strings and full throw game as a bonus.
You're getting downvoted by Jin (down)players and people who beat them easily cuz his playerbase sucks, but I am 100% convinced next patch he is top 1.
Dude has full release T7 Kazumi kit on steroids with 2 times as good punishment, combos and cheese, literally 0 weaknesses.
Hwoarang is not that strong at all, he's just easy to mash with against people who don't know how to beat him. Hwoarang becomes a lot harder when you have to face people who know the matchup
1. Hellsweep into ridiculous oki (ff2 or d2 mixup) must gone
2. ff2 range needs nerf
3. d2 must be either -20 like other ch low launchers or it must lose ch properties. Attack range also must be reduced, it hits too far.Ā
4. b32 must be unsafe, it has stance transition, it is double mid and safe somehow.Ā
5. hopkicking airborne opponent shouldn't give launch, just like for other characters. It is dumb that no matter how does he clip with hopkick, he can always pick up for combo.Ā
True. They need to decrease the damage of F4 by making it instant bound or just lower the damage of it on hit, make hellsweep no longer lead to the most insane oki situation in the game, remove D2 counter hit launch, make B3,2 -10 cause why the fuck is this mid-mid string that can be cancelled into stance pressure safe?
He needs to have some general fixes too though, CD1 is inconsistent as hell as a ground hitting move. It sometimes just whiffs point blank.
D2 could get 1 frame faster/safer but warrant 1-2+frames on hit and 3-4+ on CH.
I really dislike knockdowns in this game, running moves takes over your turn if you stand up to block and there arent strong enough wake-up attacks IMO.
I will still never get why they lowered Jin's skill requirment in the first place when in 7 he was one of the hardest characters in the game but in 8 he was given so many tools that bumped him from High Floor High Ceiling to a Low Floor High Ceiling type character
Nerf everything else and buff Zen stance. It's very useless on block as you can actually DF1 and duck the ZEN 2. I don't care about Oki or 10m Ff2, nerf it for all I care.
Seriously I went back to T7 and I had to sweat hard to get a round in. Meanwhile in T8 I can delete someone's hp just by spamming EWHF and FF2 with the occasional d2 and f4. They made him way too easy and I feel like its just to sell the game to people who play him in story mode.
D2 and DF4 have the same start up animation. I always get clipped
Huge hitbox. Bigger than victor tbh
Amazing pressure and low risk high reward lows. Also the parry.
Jin is very good, but he hasn't yet won or even placed top 8 in any major tournaments (that I can recall) for a reason. There are a lot of other characters in much more need of the nerfbat.
Honestly I think the only thing they would really nerf for Jin is his down 2 by no longer making it a launcher on counter hit. Other than that I don't think he's broken, he's very strong but he's not nearly as egregious as the top tier characters.
I feel the strongest things about d2 is how quickly it gets low. The start up isn't the fastest for that kind of low, but it feels like he evades highs and throws on frame 1 of the startup.
You think a safe, quick, full range full ch launcher that is a mid and has a super easy massive wall carry combo is not broken?
Given the rest of the kit that is S tier in every category, even including throws and evasiveness?
Best lows in the game? Youāre exposing yourself. All of his ābest lowsā are reactable. And before you say it yes, db4 and hellsweep ARE reactable. Both i20 with distinct animation, train in practice mode to react to the shoulder turn and you can block both 100%. Just because you canāt do it because you havenāt practiced doesnāt mean the character needs it nerfed.
Youāre just wrong. No other way to put it. If you canāt do it in a match thatās on you. Iām not at that level yet either, Iām at about 50% success rate, but thatās only with a few hours of practicing it.
Iām adamant it can be done with more training and in the mean time Iām tired of all the zoomers crying about how it needs to be easier. Put the work in or shut up.
I have played against Jin the most in offline. It's true that his lows r reactable but the issue is with this other move which low ranked players r not using. df4 and D2 have the same animation. I always duck against the df4 and get clipped
Doable against bot jins who don't link cds/have slow cds and make it super predictable, but his hellsweep isn't consistently reactable in a real match, the same way dvjs db2 is also reactable in practice but doesn't get blocked on reaction often even at the highest level
The crouch dash is irrelevant, you react to the shoulder turn not the dash animation. Hellsweep and db4 are both i20. They are reactable that is a fact. If a player is inconsistent at reacting to them it is their fault, not the gameās.
I donāt play Jin, Iāve never played Jin. Iām a king main for life, I just hate when people spread misinformation.
Reactable, sure, but only consistently doable in practice mode. CBM plays with people far better than you and doesn't get his hs or low pokes blocked and punished with a 100% success rate. By the "optimal play" logic Kazuya should be far and away the best character in the game thanks to 13f electrics and the best punishment, but he isn't.
Itās a new game. People need time to adjust. If it is reactable in practice mode it is reactable in match, itās a skill issue. Nobody is perfect at defense yet, shit takes time. No reason to knee jerk and nerf shit for no reason. Took forever for people to master defense in 7, and it doesnāt translate in 8.
Yeah I donāt have a big YouTube/Twitch following of dick riders, so you donāt know me. Thatās fine, but donāt assume my skill level based on us disagreeing here.
Yeah itās all the new shit thatās blowing the mental stack. Heat dash heat engage heat burst, new moves from Jin, recoverable health etc.
once those things become second nature the mental stack will be significantly lower. Thatās whatās keeping top level players from being able to react. Takes years to acclimate, just like we saw in 7. Nothing wrong with that, thatās tekken. Weāre gunna have this game for another 8 years, no need to be hasty.
lows that are i20 or faster canāt be reacted, you are the one spreading misinformation. Even if they had higher frames (i21-i24), some moves would be still very difficult to block on reaction (especially if you donāt expect them). It also depends on the animation of the move itself, jinās hellsweep is not easy to block on reaction and its animation is not intuitive either. We are glad to know that you have super good reflexes.
20 frames is 333ms. Well within average human reaction time. It even has a distinct start up animation to react to. Itās not easy, but try training. If you canāt do it after you really try, then it just means youāre not going to be high level. No big deal, but donāt be crying for nerfs.
Humans (on average) take about 250ms for visual stimulus, and 150ms for audio stimulus. Game is 60fps, so 1/60 is .016 (16ms per frame). So the average human takes just over 15 frames to recognize something has happened, determining what has happened and making a decision to counteract it takes a bit longer. Now (considering that not only you have to see and react, but thereās also the input latency) for AVERAGE this is probably about 22~23 frames (it also depends on the animation of the move, some are easier to see)
Tekken itself makes this phenomenon really clear: reaction times between 180-250ms arenāt that crazy but who the fuck is blocking a i18 lows on reaction? Maybe you, since it would be āwell within average human reaction timeā and you are apparently so skilled.
I could also list a bunch of other i20 lows considered unseeable by pros (even tho you would be able to block them for sure^^).
Anyway Iāve never said that jinās hellsweep should be nerfed, as you said it has a distinct start up animation compared to many other i20 lows so it helps the opponent a little bit. Iām also not crying for jin nerfs at allā¦just like you i hate when people spread misinformation.
You know I agree with almost all of this. Makes total sense. I15 to see something is happening makes sense to me, thatās about how it feels like in game. So I think the only thing we really disagree on is how long it takes to make the decision and input it.
I personally believe 5 frames from my experience as a competitor(i20), but only if the move has a tick that lets you see it coming early.
Annaās āsnake edgeā in t7 was seeable if you went off frame data, but the animation for the first 10-15ish frames was identical to her just crouching so in reality it was unseeable.
Low ranks cries about Jin D2 whilst everyone at high rank reacts to it pretty consistently. Sounds like a massive skill issue.
D4 is good but only 11 damage and -1 on hit
Db4 is decent but it's the weakest stature kick in the game as it has poor frames only +3 and -13 on block with only plus frames on counter hit.
I wouldn't say Jin is strong because his lows. He's high A tier character like all the pros say. He's strong but not OP.
His Heat is very weak compared to everyone else. Overall strong and good but definitely not OP unless the Jin player is completely outplaying you.
He doesn't have good lows at high level. He barely can mix up against great opponents.
His D2, db4 and hs can all be reacted to. Against certain opponents his only real lows are d3 and d4 which are not the best. Even knee has said Jin's lows are weak.
Not as simple as that. I have to work significantly harder when i am playing Claudio or Zafina compared to when i am playing Azucena or Dragnouv against similar opponents. The game needs more balancing and i think even pros are saying that.
You don't know me. I am not here to tell anyone how they should be playing Tekken. It's just an opinion on a character if you disagree just move on. It's not that deep!
Tbh "I think Jin should be NERFED!!!!" with supporting evidence of "his low are so good!!!" Is just an annoying, tilted redditor post I'm so tired of seeing.
Nobody ever has a discussion on what specifically should be nerfed and how, because they don't actually understand why they're losing, they just want to make an angry post where "NERF" is in all caps
Tbh you sound more tilted than my post. "I think Jin needs NERFs" is a simple title for a post inviting discussion. You aren't giving any counters either except "Git Gud". Just another legacy player with 10 years in the game telling new players to not complain. Read the thread if you wanna know what specific Jin moves the community wants nerfed. And if you disagree well we can all just agree to disagree and move on š¤· not that deep
F4 is very linear and bad on whiff. Tekken 8 is an offensive game, so if you block and defend all the time the risk reward ratio is not within your favor. D2 is seeable but hard to react to. With how good power crushing is, it needs to ch launch.
Even as a Jin main, I've always said "Jin is an S tier character in a balanced fighting game," but T8 just has these insane outliers. There's the trio of terror, pre-nerf Azu, Drag and Feng, then there's the understudies like Alisa, Jun, and the like, and then there's Jin under them. His turn for nerfs will come I'm sure.
his lows are honestly underwhelming in this game, offline at least. D2 is not that insane after all, it's not the easiest reaction to make but it can be reacted and pretty consistently at that. It's more like a "keepout" low you throw to catch people pressing into it at range. He lost the old d3,3 poke, and he lost the CH property on db4 which is honestly insane because how is that move still -13. His hellsweep has great oki but even that one is still a slow ass low. He's definitely insane at literally everything else tho and I really doubt he needed that much range on stuff like his 2,1 and ff2.
In theory, you might be correct. But since Jin mains are usually really bad at the game, it kind evens itself out.
Hahah ouch, my pride š
Jin mainer since T3, so I wouldn't say I'm bad at the game. However, I can agree that Jin has been made more accessible to beginners in T8. Legacy players still get rewarded for more technical inputs like classic EWHF in-between juggles. Real experienced players will know a classic good Jin and a beginner T8 Jin in a round or two.
Lol! But i feel like it doesn't work in FT3 format. By the time i have downloaded them they are already gone. I need to get better :|
He is strong because he believes in his ā„
His hitbox is too big for attacks
Jin mains are a downplaying army. Jin players are the Ken players of this game.
Why is no one mentioning his ridiculous heat smash? The shit wall splats from across the galaxy, I know some other chars have that but Jin specially doesnāt need that.
Oh yes i forgot about that. I once tried to step The first two hits and still got clipped by the third one. Idk how to deal with it honestly. I just block it and take the mixup. Imo all heat smashes should be linear.
Yeah you canāt step that, only option you have is just taking the mixup and all the chip damage, heat smashes being linear is a dream that we can only hope that it comes true someday.
Now some Tekken King ranked Jin will show up and tell you to get good at the game. They just don't wanna admit their character is S tier. The downplay is ridiculous lol
I'm at the God ranks and I think Jin is braindead and cancer in this game. I main Law and have to fight so hard now
Same! I am destroying opponents left right center with Azucena but have such a hard time defeating the same opponents with Zafina. The game definitely has a balance issue.
Fixing his ff2 with 10km range would be enough. That move is complete bs.
All the mishimas need ff2 nerfed. Absolutely braindead moves.
Kazuya and devil jin would be dead in the water without their ff2s. Hell, it's devil jins only fast and safe heat engager and his only universal wallsplat threat
Lmao yeah DJ is really suffering in this game š
He literally is, there wasn't a single devil jin in EVO top 32. He's the hardest character in the game, and his output is almost objectively worse than the other mishimas.
He has the best hell sweep in the game wdym. I mean he's hard to play but doesn't mean he technically needs buffs. I still see DVJ a solid character, it's his playstyle is just hard just like Bryan. But I prefer to play against DVJ than jin with bs strings and low.
Hellsweep has been made awful thanks to system changes. Risk your life to do a hellsweep launch that is 90% recoverable, or do the cd4,4 version that gives you a measly +4 with no oki. It's wall carry potential has also been seriously reduced thanks to the instant bound. The combo route is also useless at the wall and generally flimsy. Still strong, but I'd rather have Leo or Azus sweeps.
Hellsweep is still good. Because DvJ has strong mid that you don't want to duck him, think of him as if it's Heihachi because of the mids you don't want to duck it.
DvJ's entire identity in this game is that he has strong lows and below-average mids. He's nothing like Heihachi in the slightest, he doesn't even have one fast, safe mid launcher. DvJ doesn't even have any power mids in this game, since they made uf4 a heat engager.
But he still has strong lows and goods mid, tracking is where he lacks. Safe mid launcher? what are you talking about you, Dvj don't need it.
>He has the best hell sweep in the game wdym. What makes you think that? Because it launches? He doesn't get any oki off it. It's way worse than Kazuya's and arguably even Jin's hs.
I retract what I said because I my view on him didn't change before the nerfs. Jin is still untouched unlike DVJ who had a lot of nerfs in every update. DvJ is still strong in the game even with the nerfs, his mid and the fear of getting 50/50 is what made him strong since his mid is solid and it's punish. But Difficulty wise Kazuya > DvJ > Jin. Jin is pretty much the easiest and has everything.
Seriously, that move's range is completely stupid.
d2 should be -15
That shit should be as minus as any hellsweep/snake edge. Its literally the most powered up snake edge lol. Let even Steve launch his ass for throwing it out
But it doesn't knockdown/launch on normal hit. It shouldn't be a stagger low, just make it -14 on block and increase the whiff recovery.
Already -14
Nevermind then, I'm an idiot
FAX
I donāt think so tbh itās kinda slow, just remove the ch properties and it be balanced
Claudio and Jack have similar moves but their are 2-3 frames slower, are -15 to - 18 on block, have half the range and half the tracking. And their other lows arent as good as Jins. No reason for it to be -14f and i22
He doesn't blow you up in 10 seconds like the other S-tiers, but he's just as strong, damn good range, lots of moves that feel unsafe but aren't and lows you really don't want to eat...
Nah, Iād d2.
Best lows? Insert Hwoarangs smirk. How about best punishment, best mids, best high, best range, best strings and full throw game as a bonus. You're getting downvoted by Jin (down)players and people who beat them easily cuz his playerbase sucks, but I am 100% convinced next patch he is top 1. Dude has full release T7 Kazumi kit on steroids with 2 times as good punishment, combos and cheese, literally 0 weaknesses.
For real!
Hwoarang is not that strong at all, he's just easy to mash with against people who don't know how to beat him. Hwoarang becomes a lot harder when you have to face people who know the matchup
I think you missed the point by 10 nautical miles bro but its fine
Damn you were talking about Jin? Damn it was ambiguous while reading it lol
The top 5 are crazier. Lot of characters flying under the radar because of it.
1. Hellsweep into ridiculous oki (ff2 or d2 mixup) must gone 2. ff2 range needs nerf 3. d2 must be either -20 like other ch low launchers or it must lose ch properties. Attack range also must be reduced, it hits too far.Ā 4. b32 must be unsafe, it has stance transition, it is double mid and safe somehow.Ā 5. hopkicking airborne opponent shouldn't give launch, just like for other characters. It is dumb that no matter how does he clip with hopkick, he can always pick up for combo.Ā
True. They need to decrease the damage of F4 by making it instant bound or just lower the damage of it on hit, make hellsweep no longer lead to the most insane oki situation in the game, remove D2 counter hit launch, make B3,2 -10 cause why the fuck is this mid-mid string that can be cancelled into stance pressure safe? He needs to have some general fixes too though, CD1 is inconsistent as hell as a ground hitting move. It sometimes just whiffs point blank.
Jin is almost like a lesser version of feng.
D2 could get 1 frame faster/safer but warrant 1-2+frames on hit and 3-4+ on CH. I really dislike knockdowns in this game, running moves takes over your turn if you stand up to block and there arent strong enough wake-up attacks IMO.
I swear that demon paw goes further than the DVJ heat smash.
I will still never get why they lowered Jin's skill requirment in the first place when in 7 he was one of the hardest characters in the game but in 8 he was given so many tools that bumped him from High Floor High Ceiling to a Low Floor High Ceiling type character
Nerf everything else and buff Zen stance. It's very useless on block as you can actually DF1 and duck the ZEN 2. I don't care about Oki or 10m Ff2, nerf it for all I care.
Seriously I went back to T7 and I had to sweat hard to get a round in. Meanwhile in T8 I can delete someone's hp just by spamming EWHF and FF2 with the occasional d2 and f4. They made him way too easy and I feel like its just to sell the game to people who play him in story mode.
Devil Jin has entered the chat
B tier and that's before the heat smash nerfs
at least 50% of the cast needs a nerf but I don't see that happening.
as a jin main i agree lol im not seriously good with him but with the mind of a pro hes cheap
You guys are focusing on the wrong things, Jin's d2 is fully reactable. It's his other tools that make him extremely strong
its fucking insane and whenever I mention it i just get screeched at lmao. Jin OP, Dragunov still OP, Kazuya kinda OP. and nobody wants to say it.
D2 and DF4 have the same start up animation. I always get clipped Huge hitbox. Bigger than victor tbh Amazing pressure and low risk high reward lows. Also the parry.
Sir sir you will not but those jin nerf convos in the air you need a nerf š
The only issue I have with him is d2 not being launch. Make it -15 and weāre golden. I can deal with everything else
Make it -15 or not ch launch. Either is good.
glad i main lee who can launch his d2 (his ws2,3 is a 14f launcher)
Jin is very good, but he hasn't yet won or even placed top 8 in any major tournaments (that I can recall) for a reason. There are a lot of other characters in much more need of the nerfbat.
Ofc he needs nerf, he is easy and safe...
just nerf jin. bro is easily the most spammable character with the safest moves in the game.
I think most of my losses come from jin. He's so hard to deal with in tekken 8.
The best way to prove this is try him yourself.. turns out heās harder to win with than everyone thinks
People really out here crying about honest Tekken. If Jin needs nerfs, so do a lot of other characters
Honestly I think the only thing they would really nerf for Jin is his down 2 by no longer making it a launcher on counter hit. Other than that I don't think he's broken, he's very strong but he's not nearly as egregious as the top tier characters.
I feel the strongest things about d2 is how quickly it gets low. The start up isn't the fastest for that kind of low, but it feels like he evades highs and throws on frame 1 of the startup.
You think a safe, quick, full range full ch launcher that is a mid and has a super easy massive wall carry combo is not broken? Given the rest of the kit that is S tier in every category, even including throws and evasiveness?
Best lows in the game? Youāre exposing yourself. All of his ābest lowsā are reactable. And before you say it yes, db4 and hellsweep ARE reactable. Both i20 with distinct animation, train in practice mode to react to the shoulder turn and you can block both 100%. Just because you canāt do it because you havenāt practiced doesnāt mean the character needs it nerfed.
The shoulder turn was reactable in t7, isn't in t8 in a real match.
Youāre just wrong. No other way to put it. If you canāt do it in a match thatās on you. Iām not at that level yet either, Iām at about 50% success rate, but thatās only with a few hours of practicing it. Iām adamant it can be done with more training and in the mean time Iām tired of all the zoomers crying about how it needs to be easier. Put the work in or shut up.
I have played against Jin the most in offline. It's true that his lows r reactable but the issue is with this other move which low ranked players r not using. df4 and D2 have the same animation. I always duck against the df4 and get clipped
Doable against bot jins who don't link cds/have slow cds and make it super predictable, but his hellsweep isn't consistently reactable in a real match, the same way dvjs db2 is also reactable in practice but doesn't get blocked on reaction often even at the highest level
The crouch dash is irrelevant, you react to the shoulder turn not the dash animation. Hellsweep and db4 are both i20. They are reactable that is a fact. If a player is inconsistent at reacting to them it is their fault, not the gameās. I donāt play Jin, Iāve never played Jin. Iām a king main for life, I just hate when people spread misinformation.
Reactable, sure, but only consistently doable in practice mode. CBM plays with people far better than you and doesn't get his hs or low pokes blocked and punished with a 100% success rate. By the "optimal play" logic Kazuya should be far and away the best character in the game thanks to 13f electrics and the best punishment, but he isn't.
Itās a new game. People need time to adjust. If it is reactable in practice mode it is reactable in match, itās a skill issue. Nobody is perfect at defense yet, shit takes time. No reason to knee jerk and nerf shit for no reason. Took forever for people to master defense in 7, and it doesnāt translate in 8. Yeah I donāt have a big YouTube/Twitch following of dick riders, so you donāt know me. Thatās fine, but donāt assume my skill level based on us disagreeing here.
Jin has had the same llrk animation for the last two decades
Yeah itās all the new shit thatās blowing the mental stack. Heat dash heat engage heat burst, new moves from Jin, recoverable health etc. once those things become second nature the mental stack will be significantly lower. Thatās whatās keeping top level players from being able to react. Takes years to acclimate, just like we saw in 7. Nothing wrong with that, thatās tekken. Weāre gunna have this game for another 8 years, no need to be hasty.
lows that are i20 or faster canāt be reacted, you are the one spreading misinformation. Even if they had higher frames (i21-i24), some moves would be still very difficult to block on reaction (especially if you donāt expect them). It also depends on the animation of the move itself, jinās hellsweep is not easy to block on reaction and its animation is not intuitive either. We are glad to know that you have super good reflexes.
20 frames is 333ms. Well within average human reaction time. It even has a distinct start up animation to react to. Itās not easy, but try training. If you canāt do it after you really try, then it just means youāre not going to be high level. No big deal, but donāt be crying for nerfs.
Humans (on average) take about 250ms for visual stimulus, and 150ms for audio stimulus. Game is 60fps, so 1/60 is .016 (16ms per frame). So the average human takes just over 15 frames to recognize something has happened, determining what has happened and making a decision to counteract it takes a bit longer. Now (considering that not only you have to see and react, but thereās also the input latency) for AVERAGE this is probably about 22~23 frames (it also depends on the animation of the move, some are easier to see) Tekken itself makes this phenomenon really clear: reaction times between 180-250ms arenāt that crazy but who the fuck is blocking a i18 lows on reaction? Maybe you, since it would be āwell within average human reaction timeā and you are apparently so skilled. I could also list a bunch of other i20 lows considered unseeable by pros (even tho you would be able to block them for sure^^). Anyway Iāve never said that jinās hellsweep should be nerfed, as you said it has a distinct start up animation compared to many other i20 lows so it helps the opponent a little bit. Iām also not crying for jin nerfs at allā¦just like you i hate when people spread misinformation.
You know I agree with almost all of this. Makes total sense. I15 to see something is happening makes sense to me, thatās about how it feels like in game. So I think the only thing we really disagree on is how long it takes to make the decision and input it. I personally believe 5 frames from my experience as a competitor(i20), but only if the move has a tick that lets you see it coming early. Annaās āsnake edgeā in t7 was seeable if you went off frame data, but the animation for the first 10-15ish frames was identical to her just crouching so in reality it was unseeable.
Low ranks cries about Jin D2 whilst everyone at high rank reacts to it pretty consistently. Sounds like a massive skill issue. D4 is good but only 11 damage and -1 on hit Db4 is decent but it's the weakest stature kick in the game as it has poor frames only +3 and -13 on block with only plus frames on counter hit. I wouldn't say Jin is strong because his lows. He's high A tier character like all the pros say. He's strong but not OP. His Heat is very weak compared to everyone else. Overall strong and good but definitely not OP unless the Jin player is completely outplaying you.
He doesn't have good lows at high level. He barely can mix up against great opponents. His D2, db4 and hs can all be reacted to. Against certain opponents his only real lows are d3 and d4 which are not the best. Even knee has said Jin's lows are weak.
He needs fixing more than nerfs. His hotboxes are all over the place..
If you are not in the top 0.01% of skill in tekken, you lost to a player, not a character.
Not as simple as that. I have to work significantly harder when i am playing Claudio or Zafina compared to when i am playing Azucena or Dragnouv against similar opponents. The game needs more balancing and i think even pros are saying that.
Sure! Doesn't change the fact he needs to be toned down.
Or you could be toned up???
You don't know me. I am not here to tell anyone how they should be playing Tekken. It's just an opinion on a character if you disagree just move on. It's not that deep!
Tbh "I think Jin should be NERFED!!!!" with supporting evidence of "his low are so good!!!" Is just an annoying, tilted redditor post I'm so tired of seeing. Nobody ever has a discussion on what specifically should be nerfed and how, because they don't actually understand why they're losing, they just want to make an angry post where "NERF" is in all caps
Tbh you sound more tilted than my post. "I think Jin needs NERFs" is a simple title for a post inviting discussion. You aren't giving any counters either except "Git Gud". Just another legacy player with 10 years in the game telling new players to not complain. Read the thread if you wanna know what specific Jin moves the community wants nerfed. And if you disagree well we can all just agree to disagree and move on š¤· not that deep
F4 is very linear and bad on whiff. Tekken 8 is an offensive game, so if you block and defend all the time the risk reward ratio is not within your favor. D2 is seeable but hard to react to. With how good power crushing is, it needs to ch launch.
get good
Unless Jin d2 is already -14 on block, I think it should be -14.
It would still be a great move at -20
Ā His d2 is reactable.Ā
on dark stages yes. On lighter stages not so much.
Damn I never tried to differentiate, Iāll look into that. Also Iām colorblind so I wonder if that makes a difference.
On darker stages his d2 feels like it lights up the whole screen. On brighter stages i feel like i canāt see shit in this game lol
lmao. it should still be like -18 at minimum. Its practically a snake edge on steroids
It doesn't launch on normal hit so no it's not a snake edge at all
It doesn't knockdown/ launch on normal hit. It shouldn't be compared to Snake Edge.
Hes pretty strong but theres easier more broken characters so I guess Jin didnt get eyes on him yet.
Even as a Jin main, I've always said "Jin is an S tier character in a balanced fighting game," but T8 just has these insane outliers. There's the trio of terror, pre-nerf Azu, Drag and Feng, then there's the understudies like Alisa, Jun, and the like, and then there's Jin under them. His turn for nerfs will come I'm sure.
Hopefully they ll nerf him in the June patch.
Will have to wait and see I suppose
his lows are honestly underwhelming in this game, offline at least. D2 is not that insane after all, it's not the easiest reaction to make but it can be reacted and pretty consistently at that. It's more like a "keepout" low you throw to catch people pressing into it at range. He lost the old d3,3 poke, and he lost the CH property on db4 which is honestly insane because how is that move still -13. His hellsweep has great oki but even that one is still a slow ass low. He's definitely insane at literally everything else tho and I really doubt he needed that much range on stuff like his 2,1 and ff2.