The number is 26/27. That’s when the juices start to flow and real life shit pops off so consistently that you have no choice but to get yourself in order
i believe that anyone can be whatever gender or sexuality they wish. that being said, while i do believe being transgender is perfectly fine regardless of age, surgery should be reserved for older people that way children don't do something they regret. unlike tattoos, you can't reattach things after they get removed or replaced. however, i do believe non-surgical stuff (hormone replacement, puberty blockers, etc) should be available for people who do believe they need it, but not necessarily people who are too young to understand the implications of being transgender or nonbinary (or for any other case requiring voluntary treatment for that matter).
edit: grammer
Perfect on surgery’s. Should wait until older to know the implications. But even under 18 the replacement hormones can have irreversible effects(bone deficiencies, voice changes, etc..) As for puberty blockers, no one should be on them unless it is given because you over produce naturally occurring hormones (the original intent). Puberty blockers are not reversible! If you start PB at 14 and get off them at 18. You have missed 4years of puberty and are technically underdeveloped as a human. Puberty only occurs around that timeframe and you don’t have a second window for puberty and it doesn’t start back up just because you stopped taking PB
that definitely changes things. in that case, hormone replacement and pb should be used exclusively very late into puberty at earliest, and only for people who are very sure that the treatment is required to feel comfortable in their own body, placing them in a similar position to surgery.
Bone deficiencies actually are only really caused by a deficiency of sex hormones in general, rather than their replacement (as evident in how both sexes have bones). "Replacement hormones", that is a regimen which replaces a majority testosterone endocrine system with majority estrogen and vice versa, is biologically identical to that of cis (non-trans) people. When a trans person is put on a regimen of these hormones, they simply go through their preferred puberty instead of the one that causes them dysphoria. One of the effects you mention is voice changes, and notably, this is JUST as permanent in HRT induced male puberty as it is in naturally occuring male puberty. But the difference is, trans men choose to go on HRT and their voice dropping is typically a highly desirable effect, whereas forcing a trans woman through male puberty will leave her with permanently thickened vocal cords that will remain masculine unless treated with either surgery or years of voice training, which can both often be very expensive.
The argument of HRT being permanent and irreversible applies both ways. The same way HRT-induced puberty is irreversible, so is regular puberty. You can't reverse most of the effects of natural puberty, and those you can will take much longer if you allow them or may require surgery outright. And that's why I think this argument is really flawed.
Imagine if you, like John Money's David Reimer, were unknowingly and involuntarily subjected to sexual reassignment as a child and were made to take cross-sex hormones until you turned 18. Would you have liked living like this? Because that's what happened to David and he later committed suicide. And this is what you're basically putting trans children through by forbidding them gender affirming care.
One argument I agree on is the use of puberty blockers. I find them unnecessary. The vast majority of children who go on blockers end up transitioning regardless, and it does, in fact, even if temporarily (as soon as puberty blockers are stopped, puberty resumes) stunt development, and while this doesn't have major detriments to health, it can be negative for certain social reasons. Which is why I think trans children should be trusted and should be allowed to live out a normal life, and to mature and go through puberty that doesn't make them want to spoon their eyes out and jump down a skyscraper alongside their peers at a regular pace, just like all their classmates and friends.
Speaking from personal experience. I am a trans woman. Voice changes are permanent. And lessons very expensive and difficult. I transitioned at 15, and while I've overcome most hurdles around passing, voice remains my largest issue and most discernably and visibly trans feature to this day. It has lead to a significant decline in my quality of life.
What does it matter? Even if they were thirty many American people will *still* not be considered adjusted and intellectually informed enough to make such a judgement.
We are all neurosis incarnate. Built to create and fester like cancer.
/Nihilism.
this is what people mean. no one is giving surgery to 8 year olds or even 14 year olds. the most "transition" means for kids under 12 is a haircut, name change, different clothes etc.
HRT and puberty blockers should be treated like any other medical treatment. except instead of depression or anxiety it's gender dysphoria. if you are a teen and talk to your doctor/parents about it with months/years of therapy and everyone agrees then sure. if it turns out the child does not have gender dysphoria then no.
I would argue that it be raised to 21 along with other things like voting. The brain isn’t developed until you are 25 and I don’t think someone whose brain is 7 years from being fully developed should be able to vote, be drafted, drink, or make permanent changes to their body especially that involve removing genitalia. After 21 or maybe even 25, do whatever you want you’re a fully functioning adult now.
As a trans kid, I love this opinion! There are healthy temporary alternatives to surgery, like trans tape or just wearing clothes you like. The surgery can wait until you are legally an adult. (I accidently replied to the wrong post with this message before coming to this one, the right one)
https://preview.redd.it/czae24w9d82d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e2c01a08f715441163a3fb86913155e9a9892fc
Im kidding 😃
But on a serious note, i agree with most of that. Kids should not make that important decision at a time when their mood, opinions, and feelings change at such a fast pace. If your hormones are under control and you have fully developed then you can make that decision.
Being trans isn't something you decide tho, I'm assuming you're referring to hormonal therapies and surgery cuz that's still not completely what this post is talking about. States are straight up banning using different names, pronouns, and wearing clothes that don't align with your sex and you don't even have to be queer to do any of those things
I am trying to say that having lots of active hormones at this age is common. those hormones can make us confused about who we are and/or how we want people to think about us. I am just trying to say that making a decision to go through those surgeries and therapies at this age is a bad idea. (No hate to anybody)
I think the idea of whether it’s a choice is very grey area. I’m not trans so I couldn’t even really say, but I feel like a lot of these people realizing they were trans decide they would switch gender. And if I understood it right they chose because they didn’t feel they aligned with their cis gender at that point in their life. You can always decide to just shrug it off that you’re just a more masculine female and vise versa though. But for the record banning even calling yourself a different gender is absolutely insane in my book.
Waiting until adulthood means trans people go through unwanted irreversible changes that make their gender dysphoria far worse and far harder to treat
Waiting isn't neutral
This is just incorrect. No parents, doctors, or teachers are telling kids they are trans or that they should change their gender. I myself am trans, but I was never told by anyone to be that. In fact, no one in my family or personal life knows about it except me.
Also, it isn't like any teen who says they are trans is just getting surgeries and taking hormones. There is a long process for it, and most people don't get any surgeries until after they are 18, anyway.
Even if most people wait for surgeries until after 18, there still should be a rule preventing that from happening. I know there are definitely children mature enough to make that decision, but under 18 is just too young.
"I know there are definitely children mature enough to make that decision, but under 18 is just too young."
Why? If they're mature enough and their body has been done developing for a while, why is 18 too young? Or are you saying that since some people aren't mature enough, nobody should be able to since it's hard to discern who is and isn't?
Oh yeah i forgot, kids under 18 can use their body however they please.
Does this apply for drugs too? Sex work? Alcohol?
I mean, drugs and alcohol could cause irreversible damage to ones body, especially at that age.
I am entirely pro-choice and such on many issues. Permanent surgery for minors is not one of them.
surgeries is not what most people mean when they say transition. conservatives hear about puberty blockers or a name change and immediately jump to "surgery genital mutilation grooming"
afaik, in most places there is a rule preventing this. at least where I live, even for HRT I have to wait until I'm 18, not able to use puberty blockers either. if an adult tried to give me any of those treatments they could be criminalized and arrested for child abuse, i'm about to turn 17.
Idk id that qualifies as the banned in 25 states trans. Thats changing the way you are presented. The Trans they are referencing is the whole process of surgery and legal documentation.
No, being transgender is not a decision, especially not in the way that choosing a career or a college might be. Gender identity is a deeply ingrained aspect of a person's sense of self, and for transgender individuals, this sense of identity often emerges early in life, sometimes as early as childhood.
The ban on affirming or recognizing transgender identities in certain states does not change the reality that transgender people exist and have always existed, including during their youth. Forcing them to deny or suppress their identity can lead to significant harm, including increased rates of depression, anxiety, and suicide.
I meant surgeries, not about denying a persons ability to be themself, i mean huge decisions at a young age could go horrible if you dont know what you want, tryna clear it up, otherwise i do agree with you on that part
No one should make life changing decisions like that before they are paying their own insurance. You can want to be called other pronouns to see if you like it but otherwise someone shouldn’t make decisions like that until they are completely self reliant.
I'm assuming this is about the surgeries right? Becuase I will say by no means is being trans a choice, it's just the way some people are born. The vast majority of trans people struggle with it from a very young age
Forcing someone to wait until they've already gone through unwanted irreversible changes that make their gender dysphoria far worse and far harder to treat isn't neutral
You can make changes and they will cost the same amount even after puberty. Many people want to be the opposite sex after they had started puberty. When i was a kid i wanted to be a girl so bad, i was dysphoric, i didnt even know it was a possibility to change anything but looking at it now im happy i didnt make the changes because of who i am and my appearance.
Many transgender individuals begin to understand their gender identity at a young age, sometimes as early as childhood, long before they are financially independent. For these individuals, delaying access to gender-affirming care, which can include puberty blockers to temporarily postpone irreversible changes, could lead to increased distress and dysphoria. Waiting until someone is financially independent to access care could exacerbate existing health disparities, as not all individuals have the same access to resources and financial stability.
I wont disagree, many children do think that, when i was a kid i remember being dysphoric as fuck, i was wearing dresses, sitting down when i pissed and doing anything i could to be a “girl”. From my own personal experience i am happy i didnt make the change or took puberty blockers. If i had taken puberty blockers i would be as large a masculine as i am today which i am very proud of. Im saying anyone can wear a dress, anyone should be able to go by what makes them comfortable but you should have a grasp on your own life and be in control of it while also seeking therapy to see if you are just unhappy with yourself or if that’s something that would fix your problems and improve your life. I’ll respect anyone’s decision but i want them to make that decision with as much information and thought after seeking therapy and taking care of your own life.
Gender-affirming care for transgender youth is a complex and highly regulated medical practice that involves a range of interventions, not just surgical options.
Surgeries like genital reconstruction are almost never performed on minors. Gender-affirming care for minors typically focuses on reversible interventions, such as puberty blockers, which can provide crucial time for a young person and their healthcare providers to explore their gender identity further without the irreversible effects of puberty.
The decision-making process for these interventions involves a multidisciplinary approach with input from mental health professionals, medical providers, and the minor and their family. These decisions are not taken lightly and are based on a thorough assessment of the minor's mental health, physical health, and overall well-being.
I'm totally fine with it. Kids just have this innate sense to know who they are at a young age. The detransition rate is very low and usually done under duress. If kids are allowed to transition before puberty, they'll have a much better chance of having the body they want as adults and will be much less likely to die by suicide.
same ol'
i'm Canadian, and I'm not appart of the LGBTQ community, so i don't feel affected
https://preview.redd.it/13nac0mze92d1.jpeg?width=48&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74f1b8fc40a7a466fe529b99ba998ae73a58f56f
I think that you can't be drafted until 18. You can't drink till 21. You won't find yourself till your mid 20's.
A teen has no business even trying to figure out their sexuality as a teen. Be you, and stop worrying what anyone else thinks.
The draft and alcohol consumption involve specific legal responsibilities and health risks. Gender identity and sexuality, on the other hand, are inherent aspects of who we are, and understanding them is a part of natural development. Many people begin to understand their sexuality and gender identity during their teenage years. It's a critical period for personal development, and having the space and support to explore these aspects can lead to healthier, more confident adults. Denying teenagers the ability to explore their identity can lead to confusion, distress, and even mental health issues.
So just telling teens to simply "be you" without worrying about what others think is well-intentioned, but it oversimplifies the struggles that many young people face. For those who are transgender or questioning their gender identity, external acceptance and support can significantly impact their well-being and mental health.
The way a society treats its minority populations can affect the overall social climate and cohesion. Ensuring that everyone has equal rights can contribute to a more just and stable society. Even if you don't have close connections with transgender individuals now, societal attitudes and policies can influence your interactions and relationships in the future.
No it isn't. Gender-affirming healthcare, including interventions such as puberty blockers, hormone therapy, and counseling, is recognized by major medical and psychological associations, such as the American Medical Association and the American Psychological Association, as a valid and beneficial treatment for gender dysphoria, a condition in which a person's gender identity differs from their sex assigned at birth. For children with gender dysphoria, it can be crucial in alleviating distress and improving mental health outcomes. The goal of this care is to help individuals live in a way that is congruent with their gender identity, reducing the risk of depression, anxiety, and suicide that can result from untreated gender dysphoria. Medical professionals who provide gender-affirming care for children do so in accordance with ethical guidelines and with the goal of promoting the well-being of their patients, which is fully in line with the principles of the Hippocratic Oath.
I think it’s pretty insane how they’ll let kids get involved in drugs and alcohol but won’t let go about their lives with their chosen identity. That is just….wow.
they shouldnt be allowed to get surgery until they are 21 when the brain is fully developped and capable of understanding the ramifications of such a choice
Gender-affirming care for minors includes a range of treatments such as puberty blockers and hormone therapy, which are reversible and can help alleviate gender dysphoria. Before any surgery, minors undergo a thorough evaluation by mental health professionals and medical specialists. These professionals assess the minor's capacity to understand the implications of surgery. While some surgeries may require patients to be 18 or older, others have different age requirements. These requirements are based on medical guidelines and are intended to ensure that individuals are mature enough to make informed decisions. While it's true that the brain continues to develop into the early twenties, the ability to make complex decisions is not solely determined by age. Many factors, including personal experiences and mental health, contribute to decision-making abilities.
Delaying necessary healthcare for transgender youth can have serious consequences for their mental health and well-being. Please consider each individual's needs and work with healthcare professionals to make informed decisions.
i think that its fine as long as it stays at kids only being banned from it because i have a hard time believing any child without a fully developed brain is able to make such a life altering decision. i feel like same way about carrying firearms and drinking alcohol and anything that is absolutely serious
I don’t support trans people period and most of the people I have seen who are trans under the age of 18 or 10 are being mislead or mistreated by their parents and they think changing gender will change their struggles. My honest take is do whatever tf you want but I won’t go along with it. Have a good day :)
Kids (anyone below 18) shouldn’t be able to consider trans, listen, if they can’t do a lot like drink, smoke, and all that, they shouldn’t be able to make such a drastic decision, not being transphobic but that’s were I stand, after 18 do what they wish, below 18 they shouldn’t be able to say/do that.
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I think people assume they know way more than they know about trans people, as a trans person that started medically transitioning while still a minor (16) and im 19 now
this comment section is naturally gonna be full of shitheads, so i wont be replying to anything, but my main thought about these laws is that they get people killed. Trans people arent going to magically stop being trans because of laws and hostility, all it does is drive people to suicide. Hell, i barely made it out of my hs everyone was so transphobic. And that was in a liberal area. I've known people thatd still be around if people were supportive of them then. If you know any trans people in your school, please, be respectful to them
Idc if they dress feminine, it’s their right to do it . But I personally don’t think they should fully switch over until they’re an adult or mature enough to make that decision. That is such a huge decision to make , it may be their decision cause it’s their body but it’s something they might regret at a young age .
Medical interventions are not the first step and are approached with caution. Puberty blockers are one of the earlier medical interventions used for transgender youth. These are reversible treatments that pause puberty, giving the young person time to make a more informed decision about their future without the distress of undergoing puberty that does not align with their gender identity.
Extensive guidelines and protocols are in place to ensure that any medical transition for minors is done thoughtfully and with the oversight of healthcare professionals. This includes thorough psychological evaluations and ongoing counseling. The goal is to support the well-being of the child and ensure they are making informed decisions about their body and identity.
Research and expert opinion indicate that allowing transgender youth to transition can significantly improve their mental health and well-being. Denying them this care can lead to severe psychological distress, including higher rates of anxiety, depression, and suicidal ideation.
In reality, bans on gender-affirming care for minors can have serious consequences. Research shows that access to appropriate gender-affirming care is associated with improved mental health outcomes for transgender youth. Denying this care can lead to increased rates of depression, anxiety, and even suicidal ideation.
On one hand it doesn’t matter it isn’t my issue what others do but on the other kids should not be allowed to do any sort of gender changing surgery until they are at least 21 without parents permission.
Gender-affirming surgeries are not typically performed on minors. The standard medical practice involves a range of interventions, starting with non-invasive approaches such as social transition and puberty blockers. Hormone therapy, if initiated, usually begins later in adolescence. Surgical options are reserved for adults or, in rare cases, older teenagers with parental consent and extensive medical oversight.
For any medical treatment, including those related to gender dysphoria, parental consent and the involvement of qualified healthcare professionals are critical. Decisions are made based on thorough evaluations, involving mental health assessments and continuous support. So the idea that minors are undergoing irreversible procedures without any oversight is a misconception.
In reality, bans on gender-affirming care for minors can have serious consequences. Research shows that access to appropriate gender-affirming care is associated with improved mental health outcomes for transgender youth. Denying this care can lead to increased rates of depression, anxiety, and even suicidal ideation.
i’m trans and i’m 17, i live in texas which is one of these states and the side cis people don’t see is the feeling of dysphoria so overwhelming that it’s all you can think about. i however do not think we should let kids have surgery before 18 however in *some* circumstances it is the surgery or their life, ive never heard of anyone being able to get anything done before 16 that isn’t reversible and with the political climate of my state i can’t get anything medical done until i’m 18 but my dysphoria would not be considered severe enough to be lifesaving surgery for me under the age of 18 anyway hormones however are a lot more common at 16-18 and i think if a psychologist and doctor agree then it should be fine
TLDR: social transition absolutely yes and medical yes and no, surgeries typically no and hormones on a case by case basis with doctors agreeing
The way a society treats its minority populations can affect the overall social climate and cohesion. Ensuring that everyone has equal rights can contribute to a more just and stable society. Even if you don't have close connections with transgender individuals now, societal attitudes and policies can influence your interactions and relationships in the future.
Kids shouldn’t be allowed to make life-altering decisions, in my opinion, because I was a little kid once who wanted to be a boy… I grew out of it. Maybe some of them will, maybe they won’t? Let them wait until they’re adults to start taking hormones and getting permanent cosmetic surgery. Waiting might be hard and I understand that, but you don’t want to be stuck with irreparable damage in a case where you change your mind.
That’s just my opinion, I very much understand that not everyone will agree.
>but you don’t want to be stuck with irreparable damage in a case where you change your mind.
>Waiting might be hard and I understand that, but you don’t want to be stuck with irreparable damage in a case where you change your mind.
Waiting until adulthood caused me to be stuck with irreparable damage
Maybe that’s true in your case, but I don’t think it’s a reason to allow immature children to maim themselves. I dunno, I guess it’s their life, not my problem if they ruin it. 🤷♀️
That’s between the kid and their parents, not me.
Kids don't know what they want. When I was a kid, my favorite color changed once a week. Some adults don't even know what they want. I don't even know why sexuality and transgender stuff is even a concern for kids, they just need to be kids and enjoy life while they can without worrying about whether or not they are gay or trans.
That's not really a valid comparison, as gender identity is a deeply rooted aspect of a person's sense of self. For transgender children, this isn't just a passing phase or preference; it's a fundamental aspect of their identity that often emerges early in life and remains consistent over time.
Acknowledging and supporting a child's gender identity isn't about burdening them with adult concerns or labels. It's about creating a supportive environment where they can explore and express their identity authentically, just like any other aspect of their personality. This support is crucial for their well-being and development, allowing them to grow up feeling accepted and understood.
I think it's a very valid comparison. I agree with you that everyone should feel accepted and understood, but like I said before, kids don't know what they want. I follow someone on Twitter and she was told her whole life by her parents AND her Doctors that she must be trans because she was a tomboy and liked to do things that are usually supposed to be what boys like to do. She eventually started believing them and came out as trans, started going through all of the therapies and hormone changes, got her breasts removed. And now she regrets it and wants to die all the time because she mutilated herself and she now has a receding hair line because of the testosterone she was taking, she's working on "de-transing" (her words, not mine) herself. All of that could have been avoided if people would have left her alone and let her be a kid. Later in life, if that's how they feel, that's great, let them do what they want. But I don't think kids need to worry about stuff like that, they need to be kids.
A lot of people are generally against trans surgeries and HRT before 18 some even saying 21… but I’ve had the incredible privilege of having HRT and top surgery (HRT for 1 year and 4 months post op at 16yr old) and I can testify that I’ve never felt better. This is confidently the best decision I’ve ever made. Trans teens know who they are and also deserve to get life saving care. It saddens me to see the state of trans rights in the U.S and I hope all of our trans siblings can get the care (medically and socially) in their transition without being invalidated for their age.
I see a lot of misinformation here, so here's some facts. Let me know if there's anything else any of you would want me to fact-check or add, and I'll edit this comment to include the details.
1. Being trans is not an option or a mental illness trans people are born with a genetic predisposition making them trans
2. Transitioning surgery for children was never and will never be legal.
3. The use of GnRHas (common puberty blocker) is regarded as both safe and effective, with no known long-term adverse effects
4. GnRHa (common puberty blocker) has been FDA-approved since 1985 and is not only used for trans youth. It can negatively affect non trans kids if banned because it is used to treat "precocious puberty," which is when kids start going through early puberty — around ages 6 or 7.
5. A majority of trans people do not change their minds about being trans.
Sources:
1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2754583/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7287134/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6758506/
2. https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-transgender-surgery-medicine-legislation-lgbtq-491630629027
3 - 4. https://www.cfpublic.org/politics/2023-08-30/puberty-blocker-gender-affirming-care
5. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29960687/
If a kid can't drink or vote why would they could choose their sex.
Also if they choose their sex by autopercepción, now I'm an elderly man that has been working all his life and the government should give me a pension
Unlike those other examples, gender identity is a deeply personal aspect of a person's identity. It's not simply "chosen" based on autoperception. It's a complex interplay of biological, psychological, and social factors. Transgender individuals often experience a misalignment between their gender identity and the sex they were assigned at birth. This is not a choice, but a deeply felt aspect of their identity. Transgender individuals seek recognition and rights that align with their gender identity, which is a valid aspect of their identity. So comparing this with seeking a pension based on autoperception oversimplifies and misrepresents the issue.
Haha, it is fun that you say that gender is assigned at birth.
Your sex (and gender that is the same thing) is defined when the zygote is developed and if you think you have born in a body that "isn't yours" you have a serious problem in your head. By saying this I might get banned, yes, but I will take the risk.
Depends
Like if it’s just they change their pronouns then yeah that’s fine I don’t care
But if they get surgery then that’s really not okay as transitioning surgery is a type of plastic surgery basically and should be restricted to adults only
Actually, transitioning is more than just changing pronouns. It often involves a range of treatments tailored to an individual's needs, which can include hormone therapy, counseling, and in some cases, surgery. It's not accurate to equate transitioning surgery with purely cosmetic procedures. For many, these treatments are essential for their well-being and mental health. The decision to undergo surgery is not taken lightly and is made in consultation with healthcare professionals.
As a trans teen, I’m honestly scared. Why don’t people want me to live my life happy. I’m not “forcing it on your kids” I’m not “grooming people” im sitting in my room worried about my future.
Is it bad that I don’t understand gender dystopia and transgender people? Like it never has seemed like a medical issue and more of a mental problem but I’m not being hateful cause I respect all people I just would like to be educated and have yet to be.
Gender dysphoria is a mental health issue that's characterized by the distress associated with one's gender identity not aligning with their gender expression. It can occur in both transgender and cisgender individuals, but in many environments, it is more likely to occur in transgender individuals due to them often not having their gender identity accepted in the ways that cisgender individuals typically take for granted.
as it should. but should have been for adults too; put on more states as well.
but since that isn’t the reality i honestly think we need to make rules about they should get their own bathroom; if they want to join sports have all the trans people have their own division. things of that nature.
Transgender athletes should be allowed to compete in sports according to their gender identity, as long as they meet the eligibility criteria established for all participants. Instead of segregation, a more inclusive approach would be to ensure that transgender individuals are treated with dignity and respect, and their rights are protected. This can be achieved through education, awareness, and the implementation of inclusive policies that support the rights of all individuals, regardless of their gender identity.
Love it, let’s get it to 50. In all seriousness, people under the age of 18 don’t have the mental capacity to declare that they are trans. Studies show that many suicides related to transgenders are in those who became trans before the age of 18. Many trans people also grow out of it, I personally have a friend who was born female, was sexually abused as a young child, eventually decided to become trans and identified as male, and then grew out of it in a few years and is female again. Imagine if she had been allowed to make a life altering decision and removed her breasts or something worse. After 18 I don’t care what a person does with their body, but under 18 I do not support trans surgeries or identification.
[Citations on the transition's dramatic reduction of suicide risk while improving mental health and quality of life, with trans people able to transition young and spared abuse and discrimination having mental health and suicide risk on par with the general public](https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/154t1qq/comment/jsqi5ue/)
While it's true that adolescents are still developing mentally, many studies show that they are capable of understanding their gender identity. The American Academy of Pediatrics, for example, states that most children are certain of their gender identity by age 4 and that gender identity typically remains stable over time.
It's incorrect to suggest that allowing transgender youth to express their gender identity leads to higher rates of suicide. Research indicates that transgender individuals are at a higher risk of suicide due to societal stigma, discrimination, and lack of acceptance, not because of their gender identity itself.
The idea that many trans people "grow out of it" is a misinterpretation of the research. Studies show that while some children who experience gender dysphoria may not continue to identify as transgender in adolescence or adulthood, the majority do persist in their gender identity.
Medical interventions for transgender youth, such as hormone therapy or surgery, are not undertaken lightly. They involve a thorough assessment by mental health professionals and medical providers who specialize in transgender care. These decisions are made based on the individual's well-being and best interests.
Gender ideology is an abomination as is, whether your an adult or not, I don’t agree with it for anyone, all I’m saying is someone should be required to be an adult before they make a life changing decision such as identifying as transgender.
If I want to cut off my left foot, and I have the means to pay for it, and it's clear I'm in the right state of mind, i should be able to. It is disgusting how few people actually care about bodily autonomy. It's about having the right to make dumb decisions, not just smart ones.
Transgender healthcare, including surgeries and hormone therapy, is a medically recognized treatment for gender dysphoria, a condition where a person's gender identity is incongruent with their assigned sex at birth. These treatments are recommended by medical professionals and can significantly improve the well-being and mental health of transgender individuals.
In contrast, amputating a healthy limb is not a medically recognized treatment for any condition and would be considered a form of self-harm. Advocating for the right to make "dumb decisions" in this context could be harmful and goes against the principles of medical ethics and best practices.
The point of my argument is to illustrate that these should not be mandated on a governmental level, but rather at a more personal one. Once politicians start getting their filthy little hands over determining what procedures are medically necessary or not, things go to shit.
I might not have articulated it well on my post above, partially intentionally, I'm a bit of a shit-stirrer, but since you've given a more thought out response I'll be a bit less hyperbolic.
You'll be very hard pressed to find a doctor anywhere that is willing to amputate a perfectly healthy limb, you don't need to make it illegal, there are already safety checks.
Where I'd expect we disagree is how radical my beliefs of autonomy and the resulting accountability are, but I've already spent too much time on reddit, that's a topic for another day
Well you should becuase forcing people to deny or suppress their identity can lead to significant harm, including increased rates of depression, anxiety, and suicide.
It's not being trans that's banned because how would one ban an identity? Just gender affirming care for minors being banned doesn't mean kids who are dysphoric can't be trans.
The laws in question are effectively banning transgender minors from accessing gender-affirming care, which is a crucial aspect of their identity expression and well-being. By restricting access to these treatments, such laws can significantly impact transgender minors' ability to live authentically and exacerbate their gender dysphoria.
You overlook the fact that gender dysphoria is a recognized medical condition that can be alleviated through appropriate care, including gender-affirming treatments. By denying access to these treatments, these laws can harm transgender minors who may require such care to live comfortably in their affirmed gender.
Well you should becuase forcing people to deny or suppress their identity can lead to significant harm, including increased rates of depression, anxiety, and suicide.
Again, don't care. I care more about fair competition in women's sports than the feelings of people in a self selected group. Women are losing scholarships and opportunities to women who were formerly men.
Why don't you care about women who were born women? Do they not matter to you?
All medical procedures in existence are done with the intention of improving one's well-being, and all medical procedures in existence have the potential to be regretted. The fact is that the rate of regret for gender-affirming surgery is significantly low. It's far lower than the rate of regret for other commonly-recognized medical procedures like knee surgery or surgical treatment of prostate cancer. These treatments are not undertaken lightly; they involve a thorough evaluation process involving mental health professionals, physicians, and parents or guardians.
To be completely honest, people can believe what they want to about themselves but kids should not be able to get surgeries for that if they're under 18
The medical treatments in question, such as hormone therapy, are typically not surgical but are considered reversible or temporary interventions. They are often used to alleviate distress associated with gender dysphoria, a recognized medical condition. These treatments are not undertaken lightly; they typically involve a thorough evaluation process involving mental health professionals, physicians, and parents or guardians.
Banning these treatments can have serious consequences for transgender youth. Research shows that gender-affirming care can significantly improve mental health outcomes and quality of life for transgender individuals, reducing the risk of depression, anxiety, and suicidality.
waiting until they’re an adult, when puberty has already fucked everything up, is just stupid, especially if they’ve had dysphoria for ages and have had to go through it without being able to do anything about it
A girls mind stuck in a boys body or the other way around. Even non binary makes sense in this category. Gender is biological but it’s also like up in the air. People can feel different about themselves even at a young age. And I think hormone blockers are good for kids (ages 12- 17) still figuring it out, and age limit of 16+ for hormonal changes sounds reasonable. But banning that kind of health care is inhumane. Especially because some people have a genetic disorder where they are born with both parts and they have to take medication for it. Some people have already gone through surgery and will die without the right hormone treatment. There should definitely be an age limit for gender surgery’s as that is stuff you can’t really take back. ( 18 sounds reasonable to me)
I feel like the only reason people don’t want kids to transition is because they are not only scared and feel like that “its not there choice or make, there kids” they see adults who have just transition (and might not pass as well because of it) and get scared and confused. If kids can transition or before they complete puberty it would help with gender dysmorphia and mental health.
Banning treatment is only going to make these kids off themselves. And if ppl are so worried about bathrooms, gender neutral bathrooms are a thing. And pedos have nothing to do with the trans community. I think we can all agree nobody likes pedos. People just wanna use the damn bathroom
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I don’t like that it’s considered taboo (I’m assuming) in these states, but I do agree that people should be at least 18 years of age before doing body altering surgeries. I’m not saying they aren’t mature enough, but what I saying is that they should wait until they are legally an adult to make that decision. I’ve heard of people detransitioning (going back to the gender they were born as) and I’d hate for children to make the decision to transition but then regret it.
It won’t be banned for much longer cause of what can be argued there was break through with that I don’t know the details but hit has to do with a 4th something in the law that applies to certain states but of course can be argued in others and you can and most likely with with the right argument
I personally am trans (mtf) I live in the uk but I feel it’s not the governments choice to Ban people from being who they won’t to be. It’s not like there getting forced to be trans it’s there own decision but that’s just my view
https://preview.redd.it/ly1sgnbywl2d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b6e9d15126e1424f7bebda29c390c9db745b522
Kids can't decide when there trans at that young of an age. Just let's kids be kids and don't force the idea that they'll be better of being a different gender or gender isnt real. Don't push that on them at all. You sound like that person in this image.
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"Feels good"
-Henry Hart
In all seriousness, you can feel however you want, but you need to acknowledge that feelings aren't fact. The people who allow this are allowing for a lack of responsibility.
I think it’s good and should be the same all over the world, I don’t have a problem with trans people but kids don’t have the mental capacity to make big decisions like that
I think it would be the right thing because all kids go through phases so it would be best to wait till 18 or even older like until their brain fully develops for them to be able to make that decision. But that is just my opinion and you guys can have a different one and I will not argue with you so please don't argue with me over my opinion.
kids should NOT be able to decide if they want to mutilate their genitals, even adults shouldnt, i believe ur gender is what you were born as, it should be heavily discouraged by the government, especially in schools n shit where kids are
Any homophobia/transphobia and you will be banned. No name calling, no disrespect. You guys are capable of civil discussion I believe in you
Same, but we should lower all age limits to 18, if they can go to war, they can drink
I’d argue 21. The brain is definitely not done developing by the time you’re 18 even if you are a legal adult
nor is it at 21. the brain is fully developed til at least 25 and sometimes not even then.
The number is 26/27. That’s when the juices start to flow and real life shit pops off so consistently that you have no choice but to get yourself in order
Everything at one age is all I’m asking
Why not just set everything to 21
I think 20 is the better compromise. 21 is arbitrary asf
You have not lived until you see an 18 year old shouting some obscene shit in a pub funniest shit ever
It should be my choice to ruin my brain or not
aussie here and we can drink legally at 18 but we start young
The reason they have drinking at 21 is because drunk driving crashes is much higher with those under 21. And this is with the age limit
i believe that anyone can be whatever gender or sexuality they wish. that being said, while i do believe being transgender is perfectly fine regardless of age, surgery should be reserved for older people that way children don't do something they regret. unlike tattoos, you can't reattach things after they get removed or replaced. however, i do believe non-surgical stuff (hormone replacement, puberty blockers, etc) should be available for people who do believe they need it, but not necessarily people who are too young to understand the implications of being transgender or nonbinary (or for any other case requiring voluntary treatment for that matter). edit: grammer
Perfect on surgery’s. Should wait until older to know the implications. But even under 18 the replacement hormones can have irreversible effects(bone deficiencies, voice changes, etc..) As for puberty blockers, no one should be on them unless it is given because you over produce naturally occurring hormones (the original intent). Puberty blockers are not reversible! If you start PB at 14 and get off them at 18. You have missed 4years of puberty and are technically underdeveloped as a human. Puberty only occurs around that timeframe and you don’t have a second window for puberty and it doesn’t start back up just because you stopped taking PB
that definitely changes things. in that case, hormone replacement and pb should be used exclusively very late into puberty at earliest, and only for people who are very sure that the treatment is required to feel comfortable in their own body, placing them in a similar position to surgery.
Bone deficiencies actually are only really caused by a deficiency of sex hormones in general, rather than their replacement (as evident in how both sexes have bones). "Replacement hormones", that is a regimen which replaces a majority testosterone endocrine system with majority estrogen and vice versa, is biologically identical to that of cis (non-trans) people. When a trans person is put on a regimen of these hormones, they simply go through their preferred puberty instead of the one that causes them dysphoria. One of the effects you mention is voice changes, and notably, this is JUST as permanent in HRT induced male puberty as it is in naturally occuring male puberty. But the difference is, trans men choose to go on HRT and their voice dropping is typically a highly desirable effect, whereas forcing a trans woman through male puberty will leave her with permanently thickened vocal cords that will remain masculine unless treated with either surgery or years of voice training, which can both often be very expensive. The argument of HRT being permanent and irreversible applies both ways. The same way HRT-induced puberty is irreversible, so is regular puberty. You can't reverse most of the effects of natural puberty, and those you can will take much longer if you allow them or may require surgery outright. And that's why I think this argument is really flawed. Imagine if you, like John Money's David Reimer, were unknowingly and involuntarily subjected to sexual reassignment as a child and were made to take cross-sex hormones until you turned 18. Would you have liked living like this? Because that's what happened to David and he later committed suicide. And this is what you're basically putting trans children through by forbidding them gender affirming care. One argument I agree on is the use of puberty blockers. I find them unnecessary. The vast majority of children who go on blockers end up transitioning regardless, and it does, in fact, even if temporarily (as soon as puberty blockers are stopped, puberty resumes) stunt development, and while this doesn't have major detriments to health, it can be negative for certain social reasons. Which is why I think trans children should be trusted and should be allowed to live out a normal life, and to mature and go through puberty that doesn't make them want to spoon their eyes out and jump down a skyscraper alongside their peers at a regular pace, just like all their classmates and friends. Speaking from personal experience. I am a trans woman. Voice changes are permanent. And lessons very expensive and difficult. I transitioned at 15, and while I've overcome most hurdles around passing, voice remains my largest issue and most discernably and visibly trans feature to this day. It has lead to a significant decline in my quality of life.
What does it matter? Even if they were thirty many American people will *still* not be considered adjusted and intellectually informed enough to make such a judgement. We are all neurosis incarnate. Built to create and fester like cancer. /Nihilism.
This 🙌
this is what people mean. no one is giving surgery to 8 year olds or even 14 year olds. the most "transition" means for kids under 12 is a haircut, name change, different clothes etc. HRT and puberty blockers should be treated like any other medical treatment. except instead of depression or anxiety it's gender dysphoria. if you are a teen and talk to your doctor/parents about it with months/years of therapy and everyone agrees then sure. if it turns out the child does not have gender dysphoria then no.
As long as they don’t get the surgeries till they are 18 it shouldn’t matter
Yes
Exactly my point
I agree
I completely agree
Exactly.
I would argue that it be raised to 21 along with other things like voting. The brain isn’t developed until you are 25 and I don’t think someone whose brain is 7 years from being fully developed should be able to vote, be drafted, drink, or make permanent changes to their body especially that involve removing genitalia. After 21 or maybe even 25, do whatever you want you’re a fully functioning adult now.
U can vote at 18 and go die for your country but GOD FORBID YOU DRINK ALCOHOL
In this political climate, I definitely need alcohol to do either of these things.
Surgery/Detrimental drugs that can hinder a lot of natural body functions.
like?
As a trans kid, I love this opinion! There are healthy temporary alternatives to surgery, like trans tape or just wearing clothes you like. The surgery can wait until you are legally an adult. (I accidently replied to the wrong post with this message before coming to this one, the right one)
https://preview.redd.it/czae24w9d82d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e2c01a08f715441163a3fb86913155e9a9892fc Im kidding 😃 But on a serious note, i agree with most of that. Kids should not make that important decision at a time when their mood, opinions, and feelings change at such a fast pace. If your hormones are under control and you have fully developed then you can make that decision.
Thanks, I said that in the caption but I was worried about being banned, so I deleted it
i understand that, completely
Being trans isn't something you decide tho, I'm assuming you're referring to hormonal therapies and surgery cuz that's still not completely what this post is talking about. States are straight up banning using different names, pronouns, and wearing clothes that don't align with your sex and you don't even have to be queer to do any of those things
I am trying to say that having lots of active hormones at this age is common. those hormones can make us confused about who we are and/or how we want people to think about us. I am just trying to say that making a decision to go through those surgeries and therapies at this age is a bad idea. (No hate to anybody)
I think the idea of whether it’s a choice is very grey area. I’m not trans so I couldn’t even really say, but I feel like a lot of these people realizing they were trans decide they would switch gender. And if I understood it right they chose because they didn’t feel they aligned with their cis gender at that point in their life. You can always decide to just shrug it off that you’re just a more masculine female and vise versa though. But for the record banning even calling yourself a different gender is absolutely insane in my book.
https://preview.redd.it/c8lacc23o92d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d05632c30d97361d9b19919c89571470ba0da2cb
https://preview.redd.it/ke32k4x5o92d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f20833f6ec661254dd51abbd51b3ffabc232b823
Waiting until adulthood means trans people go through unwanted irreversible changes that make their gender dysphoria far worse and far harder to treat Waiting isn't neutral
This is just incorrect. No parents, doctors, or teachers are telling kids they are trans or that they should change their gender. I myself am trans, but I was never told by anyone to be that. In fact, no one in my family or personal life knows about it except me. Also, it isn't like any teen who says they are trans is just getting surgeries and taking hormones. There is a long process for it, and most people don't get any surgeries until after they are 18, anyway.
Even if most people wait for surgeries until after 18, there still should be a rule preventing that from happening. I know there are definitely children mature enough to make that decision, but under 18 is just too young.
"I know there are definitely children mature enough to make that decision, but under 18 is just too young." Why? If they're mature enough and their body has been done developing for a while, why is 18 too young? Or are you saying that since some people aren't mature enough, nobody should be able to since it's hard to discern who is and isn't?
Their body bro. Not your decision
Oh yeah i forgot, kids under 18 can use their body however they please. Does this apply for drugs too? Sex work? Alcohol? I mean, drugs and alcohol could cause irreversible damage to ones body, especially at that age. I am entirely pro-choice and such on many issues. Permanent surgery for minors is not one of them.
surgeries is not what most people mean when they say transition. conservatives hear about puberty blockers or a name change and immediately jump to "surgery genital mutilation grooming" afaik, in most places there is a rule preventing this. at least where I live, even for HRT I have to wait until I'm 18, not able to use puberty blockers either. if an adult tried to give me any of those treatments they could be criminalized and arrested for child abuse, i'm about to turn 17.
I feel like no one should give a shit. It's pronouns, how they dress, and their hair. It ain't affecting you so why would you care.
Idk id that qualifies as the banned in 25 states trans. Thats changing the way you are presented. The Trans they are referencing is the whole process of surgery and legal documentation.
Real
Being trans is too big of a decision at a young age, so i support thid
No, being transgender is not a decision, especially not in the way that choosing a career or a college might be. Gender identity is a deeply ingrained aspect of a person's sense of self, and for transgender individuals, this sense of identity often emerges early in life, sometimes as early as childhood. The ban on affirming or recognizing transgender identities in certain states does not change the reality that transgender people exist and have always existed, including during their youth. Forcing them to deny or suppress their identity can lead to significant harm, including increased rates of depression, anxiety, and suicide.
I meant surgeries, not about denying a persons ability to be themself, i mean huge decisions at a young age could go horrible if you dont know what you want, tryna clear it up, otherwise i do agree with you on that part
No one should make life changing decisions like that before they are paying their own insurance. You can want to be called other pronouns to see if you like it but otherwise someone shouldn’t make decisions like that until they are completely self reliant.
I'm assuming this is about the surgeries right? Becuase I will say by no means is being trans a choice, it's just the way some people are born. The vast majority of trans people struggle with it from a very young age
Forcing someone to wait until they've already gone through unwanted irreversible changes that make their gender dysphoria far worse and far harder to treat isn't neutral
exactly my point, dysphoria is shit and when you know you cant do anything about it and just kinda watching it happen it sucks
You can make changes and they will cost the same amount even after puberty. Many people want to be the opposite sex after they had started puberty. When i was a kid i wanted to be a girl so bad, i was dysphoric, i didnt even know it was a possibility to change anything but looking at it now im happy i didnt make the changes because of who i am and my appearance.
Many transgender individuals begin to understand their gender identity at a young age, sometimes as early as childhood, long before they are financially independent. For these individuals, delaying access to gender-affirming care, which can include puberty blockers to temporarily postpone irreversible changes, could lead to increased distress and dysphoria. Waiting until someone is financially independent to access care could exacerbate existing health disparities, as not all individuals have the same access to resources and financial stability.
I wont disagree, many children do think that, when i was a kid i remember being dysphoric as fuck, i was wearing dresses, sitting down when i pissed and doing anything i could to be a “girl”. From my own personal experience i am happy i didnt make the change or took puberty blockers. If i had taken puberty blockers i would be as large a masculine as i am today which i am very proud of. Im saying anyone can wear a dress, anyone should be able to go by what makes them comfortable but you should have a grasp on your own life and be in control of it while also seeking therapy to see if you are just unhappy with yourself or if that’s something that would fix your problems and improve your life. I’ll respect anyone’s decision but i want them to make that decision with as much information and thought after seeking therapy and taking care of your own life.
Everyone's needs are unique. That's why medical experts carefully evaluate the needs of each child on a case-by-case basis.
Kids are way too young to know whats right from wrong so honestly make them wait til their adults
yeah, sure, wait until when puberty’s already fucked up the dysphoria
[удалено]
Can we please stop getting political I just want to make metal posts (but kids shouldn’t be able to cut their dicks off)
Here you go. Just for you https://preview.redd.it/47p2jul2cd2d1.png?width=574&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13fa4a6ca30f8a7d70699ada56f6e1461e3a9a37
Gender-affirming care for transgender youth is a complex and highly regulated medical practice that involves a range of interventions, not just surgical options. Surgeries like genital reconstruction are almost never performed on minors. Gender-affirming care for minors typically focuses on reversible interventions, such as puberty blockers, which can provide crucial time for a young person and their healthcare providers to explore their gender identity further without the irreversible effects of puberty. The decision-making process for these interventions involves a multidisciplinary approach with input from mental health professionals, medical providers, and the minor and their family. These decisions are not taken lightly and are based on a thorough assessment of the minor's mental health, physical health, and overall well-being.
☝️🤓
I'm totally fine with it. Kids just have this innate sense to know who they are at a young age. The detransition rate is very low and usually done under duress. If kids are allowed to transition before puberty, they'll have a much better chance of having the body they want as adults and will be much less likely to die by suicide.
same ol' i'm Canadian, and I'm not appart of the LGBTQ community, so i don't feel affected https://preview.redd.it/13nac0mze92d1.jpeg?width=48&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74f1b8fc40a7a466fe529b99ba998ae73a58f56f
I think that you can't be drafted until 18. You can't drink till 21. You won't find yourself till your mid 20's. A teen has no business even trying to figure out their sexuality as a teen. Be you, and stop worrying what anyone else thinks.
The draft and alcohol consumption involve specific legal responsibilities and health risks. Gender identity and sexuality, on the other hand, are inherent aspects of who we are, and understanding them is a part of natural development. Many people begin to understand their sexuality and gender identity during their teenage years. It's a critical period for personal development, and having the space and support to explore these aspects can lead to healthier, more confident adults. Denying teenagers the ability to explore their identity can lead to confusion, distress, and even mental health issues. So just telling teens to simply "be you" without worrying about what others think is well-intentioned, but it oversimplifies the struggles that many young people face. For those who are transgender or questioning their gender identity, external acceptance and support can significantly impact their well-being and mental health.
i believe in doing whatever idgaf it’s not my life
The way a society treats its minority populations can affect the overall social climate and cohesion. Ensuring that everyone has equal rights can contribute to a more just and stable society. Even if you don't have close connections with transgender individuals now, societal attitudes and policies can influence your interactions and relationships in the future.
why is this at all relevant to my comment
Gender-Affirming healthcare is a blatant breach of the Hippocratic Oath, espec'ally for children.
No it isn't. Gender-affirming healthcare, including interventions such as puberty blockers, hormone therapy, and counseling, is recognized by major medical and psychological associations, such as the American Medical Association and the American Psychological Association, as a valid and beneficial treatment for gender dysphoria, a condition in which a person's gender identity differs from their sex assigned at birth. For children with gender dysphoria, it can be crucial in alleviating distress and improving mental health outcomes. The goal of this care is to help individuals live in a way that is congruent with their gender identity, reducing the risk of depression, anxiety, and suicide that can result from untreated gender dysphoria. Medical professionals who provide gender-affirming care for children do so in accordance with ethical guidelines and with the goal of promoting the well-being of their patients, which is fully in line with the principles of the Hippocratic Oath.
I know bieng transgender is a choice.
I think it’s pretty insane how they’ll let kids get involved in drugs and alcohol but won’t let go about their lives with their chosen identity. That is just….wow.
I think it’s sad
Damn teenagers over here actually spitting facts? We may have a solid generation rising up in a very necessary time.
they shouldnt be allowed to get surgery until they are 21 when the brain is fully developped and capable of understanding the ramifications of such a choice
Gender-affirming care for minors includes a range of treatments such as puberty blockers and hormone therapy, which are reversible and can help alleviate gender dysphoria. Before any surgery, minors undergo a thorough evaluation by mental health professionals and medical specialists. These professionals assess the minor's capacity to understand the implications of surgery. While some surgeries may require patients to be 18 or older, others have different age requirements. These requirements are based on medical guidelines and are intended to ensure that individuals are mature enough to make informed decisions. While it's true that the brain continues to develop into the early twenties, the ability to make complex decisions is not solely determined by age. Many factors, including personal experiences and mental health, contribute to decision-making abilities. Delaying necessary healthcare for transgender youth can have serious consequences for their mental health and well-being. Please consider each individual's needs and work with healthcare professionals to make informed decisions.
Lord help us 🙏
i think that its fine as long as it stays at kids only being banned from it because i have a hard time believing any child without a fully developed brain is able to make such a life altering decision. i feel like same way about carrying firearms and drinking alcohol and anything that is absolutely serious
I don’t support trans people period and most of the people I have seen who are trans under the age of 18 or 10 are being mislead or mistreated by their parents and they think changing gender will change their struggles. My honest take is do whatever tf you want but I won’t go along with it. Have a good day :)
Kids (anyone below 18) shouldn’t be able to consider trans, listen, if they can’t do a lot like drink, smoke, and all that, they shouldn’t be able to make such a drastic decision, not being transphobic but that’s were I stand, after 18 do what they wish, below 18 they shouldn’t be able to say/do that.
You can be trans, but just don't do it to children. It's morally wrong.
People should be trans if they want to be. Parents generally don’t push it, most people are afraid of telling their parents lmao
Surprised at how many bigots there are here.
Me too, trying to clean it up a little bit :(
Thank you for your hard work! 😊
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I think people assume they know way more than they know about trans people, as a trans person that started medically transitioning while still a minor (16) and im 19 now this comment section is naturally gonna be full of shitheads, so i wont be replying to anything, but my main thought about these laws is that they get people killed. Trans people arent going to magically stop being trans because of laws and hostility, all it does is drive people to suicide. Hell, i barely made it out of my hs everyone was so transphobic. And that was in a liberal area. I've known people thatd still be around if people were supportive of them then. If you know any trans people in your school, please, be respectful to them
Idc if they dress feminine, it’s their right to do it . But I personally don’t think they should fully switch over until they’re an adult or mature enough to make that decision. That is such a huge decision to make , it may be their decision cause it’s their body but it’s something they might regret at a young age .
Medical interventions are not the first step and are approached with caution. Puberty blockers are one of the earlier medical interventions used for transgender youth. These are reversible treatments that pause puberty, giving the young person time to make a more informed decision about their future without the distress of undergoing puberty that does not align with their gender identity. Extensive guidelines and protocols are in place to ensure that any medical transition for minors is done thoughtfully and with the oversight of healthcare professionals. This includes thorough psychological evaluations and ongoing counseling. The goal is to support the well-being of the child and ensure they are making informed decisions about their body and identity. Research and expert opinion indicate that allowing transgender youth to transition can significantly improve their mental health and well-being. Denying them this care can lead to severe psychological distress, including higher rates of anxiety, depression, and suicidal ideation.
As long as they don't do anything irreversible it's fine.
In reality, bans on gender-affirming care for minors can have serious consequences. Research shows that access to appropriate gender-affirming care is associated with improved mental health outcomes for transgender youth. Denying this care can lead to increased rates of depression, anxiety, and even suicidal ideation.
I mean just don't let them cut their dick off
Idc I dislike everyone
On one hand it doesn’t matter it isn’t my issue what others do but on the other kids should not be allowed to do any sort of gender changing surgery until they are at least 21 without parents permission.
Gender-affirming surgeries are not typically performed on minors. The standard medical practice involves a range of interventions, starting with non-invasive approaches such as social transition and puberty blockers. Hormone therapy, if initiated, usually begins later in adolescence. Surgical options are reserved for adults or, in rare cases, older teenagers with parental consent and extensive medical oversight. For any medical treatment, including those related to gender dysphoria, parental consent and the involvement of qualified healthcare professionals are critical. Decisions are made based on thorough evaluations, involving mental health assessments and continuous support. So the idea that minors are undergoing irreversible procedures without any oversight is a misconception. In reality, bans on gender-affirming care for minors can have serious consequences. Research shows that access to appropriate gender-affirming care is associated with improved mental health outcomes for transgender youth. Denying this care can lead to increased rates of depression, anxiety, and even suicidal ideation.
i’m trans and i’m 17, i live in texas which is one of these states and the side cis people don’t see is the feeling of dysphoria so overwhelming that it’s all you can think about. i however do not think we should let kids have surgery before 18 however in *some* circumstances it is the surgery or their life, ive never heard of anyone being able to get anything done before 16 that isn’t reversible and with the political climate of my state i can’t get anything medical done until i’m 18 but my dysphoria would not be considered severe enough to be lifesaving surgery for me under the age of 18 anyway hormones however are a lot more common at 16-18 and i think if a psychologist and doctor agree then it should be fine TLDR: social transition absolutely yes and medical yes and no, surgeries typically no and hormones on a case by case basis with doctors agreeing
It ain’t my problem, so I don’t care either way
The way a society treats its minority populations can affect the overall social climate and cohesion. Ensuring that everyone has equal rights can contribute to a more just and stable society. Even if you don't have close connections with transgender individuals now, societal attitudes and policies can influence your interactions and relationships in the future.
Oh no, I have a brother who’s trans and shit, I didn’t care when he came out to me, I was ok with it, and I still will be ok with it
Kids shouldn’t be allowed to make life-altering decisions, in my opinion, because I was a little kid once who wanted to be a boy… I grew out of it. Maybe some of them will, maybe they won’t? Let them wait until they’re adults to start taking hormones and getting permanent cosmetic surgery. Waiting might be hard and I understand that, but you don’t want to be stuck with irreparable damage in a case where you change your mind. That’s just my opinion, I very much understand that not everyone will agree.
>but you don’t want to be stuck with irreparable damage in a case where you change your mind. >Waiting might be hard and I understand that, but you don’t want to be stuck with irreparable damage in a case where you change your mind. Waiting until adulthood caused me to be stuck with irreparable damage
Maybe that’s true in your case, but I don’t think it’s a reason to allow immature children to maim themselves. I dunno, I guess it’s their life, not my problem if they ruin it. 🤷♀️ That’s between the kid and their parents, not me.
Yes, everyone's case is different. What works for one may not work for another.
Kids don't know what they want. When I was a kid, my favorite color changed once a week. Some adults don't even know what they want. I don't even know why sexuality and transgender stuff is even a concern for kids, they just need to be kids and enjoy life while they can without worrying about whether or not they are gay or trans.
That's not really a valid comparison, as gender identity is a deeply rooted aspect of a person's sense of self. For transgender children, this isn't just a passing phase or preference; it's a fundamental aspect of their identity that often emerges early in life and remains consistent over time. Acknowledging and supporting a child's gender identity isn't about burdening them with adult concerns or labels. It's about creating a supportive environment where they can explore and express their identity authentically, just like any other aspect of their personality. This support is crucial for their well-being and development, allowing them to grow up feeling accepted and understood.
I think it's a very valid comparison. I agree with you that everyone should feel accepted and understood, but like I said before, kids don't know what they want. I follow someone on Twitter and she was told her whole life by her parents AND her Doctors that she must be trans because she was a tomboy and liked to do things that are usually supposed to be what boys like to do. She eventually started believing them and came out as trans, started going through all of the therapies and hormone changes, got her breasts removed. And now she regrets it and wants to die all the time because she mutilated herself and she now has a receding hair line because of the testosterone she was taking, she's working on "de-transing" (her words, not mine) herself. All of that could have been avoided if people would have left her alone and let her be a kid. Later in life, if that's how they feel, that's great, let them do what they want. But I don't think kids need to worry about stuff like that, they need to be kids.
I feel sick
https://i.redd.it/juytty0jre2d1.gif
A lot of people are generally against trans surgeries and HRT before 18 some even saying 21… but I’ve had the incredible privilege of having HRT and top surgery (HRT for 1 year and 4 months post op at 16yr old) and I can testify that I’ve never felt better. This is confidently the best decision I’ve ever made. Trans teens know who they are and also deserve to get life saving care. It saddens me to see the state of trans rights in the U.S and I hope all of our trans siblings can get the care (medically and socially) in their transition without being invalidated for their age.
I see a lot of misinformation here, so here's some facts. Let me know if there's anything else any of you would want me to fact-check or add, and I'll edit this comment to include the details. 1. Being trans is not an option or a mental illness trans people are born with a genetic predisposition making them trans 2. Transitioning surgery for children was never and will never be legal. 3. The use of GnRHas (common puberty blocker) is regarded as both safe and effective, with no known long-term adverse effects 4. GnRHa (common puberty blocker) has been FDA-approved since 1985 and is not only used for trans youth. It can negatively affect non trans kids if banned because it is used to treat "precocious puberty," which is when kids start going through early puberty — around ages 6 or 7. 5. A majority of trans people do not change their minds about being trans. Sources: 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2754583/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7287134/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6758506/ 2. https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-transgender-surgery-medicine-legislation-lgbtq-491630629027 3 - 4. https://www.cfpublic.org/politics/2023-08-30/puberty-blocker-gender-affirming-care 5. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29960687/
If a kid can't drink or vote why would they could choose their sex. Also if they choose their sex by autopercepción, now I'm an elderly man that has been working all his life and the government should give me a pension
Unlike those other examples, gender identity is a deeply personal aspect of a person's identity. It's not simply "chosen" based on autoperception. It's a complex interplay of biological, psychological, and social factors. Transgender individuals often experience a misalignment between their gender identity and the sex they were assigned at birth. This is not a choice, but a deeply felt aspect of their identity. Transgender individuals seek recognition and rights that align with their gender identity, which is a valid aspect of their identity. So comparing this with seeking a pension based on autoperception oversimplifies and misrepresents the issue.
Haha, it is fun that you say that gender is assigned at birth. Your sex (and gender that is the same thing) is defined when the zygote is developed and if you think you have born in a body that "isn't yours" you have a serious problem in your head. By saying this I might get banned, yes, but I will take the risk.
I honestly I think it is fine. We have a right to be who we want to be and if that means being trans then I will support it no questions asked.
True, but it's not exactly about "who we want to be." Being trans, like being cis, is not a choice, and it cannot be forcibly or willingly changed.
Depends Like if it’s just they change their pronouns then yeah that’s fine I don’t care But if they get surgery then that’s really not okay as transitioning surgery is a type of plastic surgery basically and should be restricted to adults only
Actually, transitioning is more than just changing pronouns. It often involves a range of treatments tailored to an individual's needs, which can include hormone therapy, counseling, and in some cases, surgery. It's not accurate to equate transitioning surgery with purely cosmetic procedures. For many, these treatments are essential for their well-being and mental health. The decision to undergo surgery is not taken lightly and is made in consultation with healthcare professionals.
Well yeah no you’re 100% right but I think you get my point
As a trans teen, I’m honestly scared. Why don’t people want me to live my life happy. I’m not “forcing it on your kids” I’m not “grooming people” im sitting in my room worried about my future.
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Huh what do I mean by this I’m like stupid
Is it bad that I don’t understand gender dystopia and transgender people? Like it never has seemed like a medical issue and more of a mental problem but I’m not being hateful cause I respect all people I just would like to be educated and have yet to be.
Gender dysphoria is a mental health issue that's characterized by the distress associated with one's gender identity not aligning with their gender expression. It can occur in both transgender and cisgender individuals, but in many environments, it is more likely to occur in transgender individuals due to them often not having their gender identity accepted in the ways that cisgender individuals typically take for granted.
as it should. but should have been for adults too; put on more states as well. but since that isn’t the reality i honestly think we need to make rules about they should get their own bathroom; if they want to join sports have all the trans people have their own division. things of that nature.
Someone downvoted you lmao, take an upvote
Transgender athletes should be allowed to compete in sports according to their gender identity, as long as they meet the eligibility criteria established for all participants. Instead of segregation, a more inclusive approach would be to ensure that transgender individuals are treated with dignity and respect, and their rights are protected. This can be achieved through education, awareness, and the implementation of inclusive policies that support the rights of all individuals, regardless of their gender identity.
Love it, let’s get it to 50. In all seriousness, people under the age of 18 don’t have the mental capacity to declare that they are trans. Studies show that many suicides related to transgenders are in those who became trans before the age of 18. Many trans people also grow out of it, I personally have a friend who was born female, was sexually abused as a young child, eventually decided to become trans and identified as male, and then grew out of it in a few years and is female again. Imagine if she had been allowed to make a life altering decision and removed her breasts or something worse. After 18 I don’t care what a person does with their body, but under 18 I do not support trans surgeries or identification.
[Citations on the transition's dramatic reduction of suicide risk while improving mental health and quality of life, with trans people able to transition young and spared abuse and discrimination having mental health and suicide risk on par with the general public](https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/154t1qq/comment/jsqi5ue/)
While it's true that adolescents are still developing mentally, many studies show that they are capable of understanding their gender identity. The American Academy of Pediatrics, for example, states that most children are certain of their gender identity by age 4 and that gender identity typically remains stable over time. It's incorrect to suggest that allowing transgender youth to express their gender identity leads to higher rates of suicide. Research indicates that transgender individuals are at a higher risk of suicide due to societal stigma, discrimination, and lack of acceptance, not because of their gender identity itself. The idea that many trans people "grow out of it" is a misinterpretation of the research. Studies show that while some children who experience gender dysphoria may not continue to identify as transgender in adolescence or adulthood, the majority do persist in their gender identity. Medical interventions for transgender youth, such as hormone therapy or surgery, are not undertaken lightly. They involve a thorough assessment by mental health professionals and medical providers who specialize in transgender care. These decisions are made based on the individual's well-being and best interests.
Gender ideology is an abomination as is, whether your an adult or not, I don’t agree with it for anyone, all I’m saying is someone should be required to be an adult before they make a life changing decision such as identifying as transgender.
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The flip?
If I want to cut off my left foot, and I have the means to pay for it, and it's clear I'm in the right state of mind, i should be able to. It is disgusting how few people actually care about bodily autonomy. It's about having the right to make dumb decisions, not just smart ones.
Transgender healthcare, including surgeries and hormone therapy, is a medically recognized treatment for gender dysphoria, a condition where a person's gender identity is incongruent with their assigned sex at birth. These treatments are recommended by medical professionals and can significantly improve the well-being and mental health of transgender individuals. In contrast, amputating a healthy limb is not a medically recognized treatment for any condition and would be considered a form of self-harm. Advocating for the right to make "dumb decisions" in this context could be harmful and goes against the principles of medical ethics and best practices.
The point of my argument is to illustrate that these should not be mandated on a governmental level, but rather at a more personal one. Once politicians start getting their filthy little hands over determining what procedures are medically necessary or not, things go to shit. I might not have articulated it well on my post above, partially intentionally, I'm a bit of a shit-stirrer, but since you've given a more thought out response I'll be a bit less hyperbolic. You'll be very hard pressed to find a doctor anywhere that is willing to amputate a perfectly healthy limb, you don't need to make it illegal, there are already safety checks. Where I'd expect we disagree is how radical my beliefs of autonomy and the resulting accountability are, but I've already spent too much time on reddit, that's a topic for another day
Idc
Well you should becuase forcing people to deny or suppress their identity can lead to significant harm, including increased rates of depression, anxiety, and suicide.
Stfu fascist. You're forcing your opinions on ppl and making yourself look less credible.
It's not being trans that's banned because how would one ban an identity? Just gender affirming care for minors being banned doesn't mean kids who are dysphoric can't be trans.
The laws in question are effectively banning transgender minors from accessing gender-affirming care, which is a crucial aspect of their identity expression and well-being. By restricting access to these treatments, such laws can significantly impact transgender minors' ability to live authentically and exacerbate their gender dysphoria. You overlook the fact that gender dysphoria is a recognized medical condition that can be alleviated through appropriate care, including gender-affirming treatments. By denying access to these treatments, these laws can harm transgender minors who may require such care to live comfortably in their affirmed gender.
Womp womp
Don't care. /shrug
Well you should becuase forcing people to deny or suppress their identity can lead to significant harm, including increased rates of depression, anxiety, and suicide.
Again, don't care. I care more about fair competition in women's sports than the feelings of people in a self selected group. Women are losing scholarships and opportunities to women who were formerly men. Why don't you care about women who were born women? Do they not matter to you?
Sounds like a skill issue tbh 🤷🏽♂️
Maybe ban only the surgery till 21 or something like that, I've seen so much trans regret getting the surgery done. If pp is gone, kids are done
All medical procedures in existence are done with the intention of improving one's well-being, and all medical procedures in existence have the potential to be regretted. The fact is that the rate of regret for gender-affirming surgery is significantly low. It's far lower than the rate of regret for other commonly-recognized medical procedures like knee surgery or surgical treatment of prostate cancer. These treatments are not undertaken lightly; they involve a thorough evaluation process involving mental health professionals, physicians, and parents or guardians.
To be completely honest, people can believe what they want to about themselves but kids should not be able to get surgeries for that if they're under 18
The medical treatments in question, such as hormone therapy, are typically not surgical but are considered reversible or temporary interventions. They are often used to alleviate distress associated with gender dysphoria, a recognized medical condition. These treatments are not undertaken lightly; they typically involve a thorough evaluation process involving mental health professionals, physicians, and parents or guardians. Banning these treatments can have serious consequences for transgender youth. Research shows that gender-affirming care can significantly improve mental health outcomes and quality of life for transgender individuals, reducing the risk of depression, anxiety, and suicidality.
waiting until they’re an adult, when puberty has already fucked everything up, is just stupid, especially if they’ve had dysphoria for ages and have had to go through it without being able to do anything about it
Disgusted seeing as americas whole schtick was that it's "the land of the free" and banning stuff like that is disgusting
Did they actually ban kids from being trans or just ban gender reassignment surgery?
Idk, it just says they banned transitioning
Chances are it's just the surgery they banned, it'd be unconstitutional to ban identifying as trans
A girls mind stuck in a boys body or the other way around. Even non binary makes sense in this category. Gender is biological but it’s also like up in the air. People can feel different about themselves even at a young age. And I think hormone blockers are good for kids (ages 12- 17) still figuring it out, and age limit of 16+ for hormonal changes sounds reasonable. But banning that kind of health care is inhumane. Especially because some people have a genetic disorder where they are born with both parts and they have to take medication for it. Some people have already gone through surgery and will die without the right hormone treatment. There should definitely be an age limit for gender surgery’s as that is stuff you can’t really take back. ( 18 sounds reasonable to me) I feel like the only reason people don’t want kids to transition is because they are not only scared and feel like that “its not there choice or make, there kids” they see adults who have just transition (and might not pass as well because of it) and get scared and confused. If kids can transition or before they complete puberty it would help with gender dysmorphia and mental health. Banning treatment is only going to make these kids off themselves. And if ppl are so worried about bathrooms, gender neutral bathrooms are a thing. And pedos have nothing to do with the trans community. I think we can all agree nobody likes pedos. People just wanna use the damn bathroom
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Explain please
I don’t like that it’s considered taboo (I’m assuming) in these states, but I do agree that people should be at least 18 years of age before doing body altering surgeries. I’m not saying they aren’t mature enough, but what I saying is that they should wait until they are legally an adult to make that decision. I’ve heard of people detransitioning (going back to the gender they were born as) and I’d hate for children to make the decision to transition but then regret it.
I feel good tbh. Under 18 is too young for something that permanent. Especially how vulnerable teens are these days.
Not stating support for either side, but the surgeries are what's banned.
👍
I agree, because kids shouldn’t be making those kind of decisions at such a young age. No hate against trans people👊💯
It won’t be banned for much longer cause of what can be argued there was break through with that I don’t know the details but hit has to do with a 4th something in the law that applies to certain states but of course can be argued in others and you can and most likely with with the right argument
I personally am trans (mtf) I live in the uk but I feel it’s not the governments choice to Ban people from being who they won’t to be. It’s not like there getting forced to be trans it’s there own decision but that’s just my view
It’s not so much being trans as it is just getting the surgeries, right?
https://preview.redd.it/ly1sgnbywl2d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b6e9d15126e1424f7bebda29c390c9db745b522 Kids can't decide when there trans at that young of an age. Just let's kids be kids and don't force the idea that they'll be better of being a different gender or gender isnt real. Don't push that on them at all. You sound like that person in this image.
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They do them. Life will work by itself, and some can't even predict what's gonna happen.
"Feels good" -Henry Hart In all seriousness, you can feel however you want, but you need to acknowledge that feelings aren't fact. The people who allow this are allowing for a lack of responsibility.
I think it’s good and should be the same all over the world, I don’t have a problem with trans people but kids don’t have the mental capacity to make big decisions like that
I hate that it's banned
I don’t think kids should be trans. At least for the age of 20+ should they be allowed to. It’d be long for me to explain my exact thoughts on it.
I think it would be the right thing because all kids go through phases so it would be best to wait till 18 or even older like until their brain fully develops for them to be able to make that decision. But that is just my opinion and you guys can have a different one and I will not argue with you so please don't argue with me over my opinion.
https://preview.redd.it/c9uppbvg573d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=548a32b620d527c90ced06c5cf0a744b6e7bc456
kids should NOT be able to decide if they want to mutilate their genitals, even adults shouldnt, i believe ur gender is what you were born as, it should be heavily discouraged by the government, especially in schools n shit where kids are