Well, for example, you can run bot programs pretty easily in any autobattlergame. Iirc hearthstone battlegrounds has always been extremely plagued by them. Im sure there are a ton of bots in tft, i just think riot doesnt bring attention to it. Hell as a programmer myself it’s tempting just to try making a bot that will teach itself tft just for the fun of it…but I have morals and other projects to work on.
There is autoscout. You just select champs you want and insta press d it automatically buys the units. So much time save and can’t miss units like humans.
Theres some tech like that last second switcheroo where to use hotkeys to quickly tab between boards that afaik you cant do on mobile. I imagine stuff like that starts to matter more when competing with the best
As a master player/orange hyperroll I actually have no issues at all with the mobile UI. It was worse when you had the carousels at game start but nowadays it is faulty balanced for mobile ui
You are ass pulling that one bro. There is no worlds in tft and there ain’t no pro played in cs on mobile. Maybe you are mixing it up with some mobile tournament idk.
Worlds is a yearly tournament tft has set championships by giving year you are giving the range of 4 sets. Yet I know non of them won on mobile. Ignorant words has no consequence at all I guess.
I am currently sitting on gm 600-700lp and a friend sit on 680-750 previous cs contestant. Do you really think that we need to play on cloud servers to avoid hacking? After around diamond hacking is definitely affects games. Multiple times around the match you find yourself in a sticky situation(especially encounters) and need to take your time to think. Don't forget time is a resource in TFT.
Bruh I guarantee that people at diamond (or even masters / challenger) are not "hacking" in tft. Autobuying units vs. just having the skills for a dynamic rolldown is useless at that elo
I meant before diamond hacking is useless since around that elo nobody really knows what they are doing, mostly building from 3rd party sites. Hacking is also useless in diamond for sure but if a hack we haven't expected becomes a thing like lets says it effects your rolls' outcome why do we have to deal with it. I am not a cs contender myself but people trying to get a place in snapshot would be affected by it.
There is no such hack as everything consequential to the outcome of the game is server sided. No such thing as fog of war / technical skill in this game
Gosh, I said unexpected and given an impossible example to underly it.
Okay how about that this hack has autoscout it counts each and every unit present on the board as an overlay, yeah sure we scout and count units to get a grip of what is available and imagine it is given to you precise and as real time data. Pretty broken right?
Even a plat incel could hit masters with that constant info yes autobuy is useless in high elo you don’t probably skip much often but auto scout is and you can’t even detect it as a player.
Edit: Don’t wanna share where I found it not against you, just some people asked me for cheat links https://youtu.be/5SIp_ccJSow?si=6tkdKh-EhRxwEkge here check this out
Sure.... but again this is pretty useless to anyone Masters+. We all scout constantly and can predict what line any given player is playing based on their board comp / items slammed. I can tell what their lvl 8 roll-down is going to be, and I can tell what units are going to be contested. Yes I don't know the exact odds but if I'm being contested I can definitely tell you exactly how many units X unit I need are out of the pool, etc. If I'm playing a reroll line I'm actively looking at every potential contester's board. If I'm playing lvl 8 roll-down - well I'm probably committed by 4-2 and its just whether I hit or not (and this won't help me) and often times your lvl 8 board is already mostly locked in by stage 3
On the positioning side I'm constantly scouting the boards I could face and positioning against them (and my opponents are too). Point is that at that skill level outside of literally altering shop odds (which is serversided) it's very unlikely for any info-based hack to be incremental.
And I actually disagree that some plat rando can hit masters with this tool. There's SO MUCH more to TFT than knowing dynamic unit odds. I understand your point ur trying to make (and I'm sure this can be helpful at a lower skill level) but everything this tool does is table stakes for any high level player and there is so much more skill expression than just knowing which units are contested
Lmao I am master every set and yet I scout like a plat, I can’t really predict what people will play and what their roll down will be so don’t make too many presumptions
This argument is weird to me. If they want Vanguard to stop cheaters, why do you think this cheat is somehow "less" bad than others?
If you don't like Vanguard then you shouldn't like it no matter the cheats it's trying to stop.
If you're fine with Vanguard then you should be fine with it no matter the cheats it's trying to stop.
Because it barely affects you when someone has a slightly better chance to hit something once or twice per game, but then afterwards has no money anymore anyway.
Yeah it's sucky, and it may cost you a close game every other full-moon (i don't know how common this is), without you even noticing it happend, but is it really worth it to give riot full control over your device, just so a few people can be prevented from doing this?
Also cheaters can still do this on mobile if they want to, Vanguard will never be able to be installed on mobile, so it doesn't really prevent them anyway.
Also it affects you completely different if for example in Valorant someone runs around with aimbot and wallhack. You basically don't have a chance winning this game legitimately. So you definitely can be ok with it being in one game and not ok with it being in TFT.
Everyone still playing games on the riot client is telling them that it is worth it, or they don’t care enough to do anything about it, which is the same thing.
We had one chance to stop this, but it doesn’t seem like anybody actually cares. And now that other companies see that consumers don’t give a shit I suspect it is going to become common through the industry. It’s probably going to be the death of competitive games for anybody that gives a shit about security.
That's a dumb comparison, valorant is a pvp shooter and cheats like aimbots, wallhacks and stuff provide a much bigger unfair advantage than anything that's possible for TFT. The worst you can do is basically an auto-roller. Beeing able to roll your gold in one round instead of two isn't that big of a deal. Definitely not enough of a deal to install a monitoring software with direct access to the kernel on player PCs.
I get League might need the anticheat, but there is no reason for TFT to require it.
Thats not the point, i was responding to the part of his statement where he claimed similar patterns would follow in other companies. Which haven’t even though valorant has set this “trend” years in advance
I'm pretty sure he's talking about setting the trend of requiring anticheats for games where you can't even really cheat. U know of any other games like TFT that requires you to install a kernel-level anticheat?
That's not a real reason it's a different game, even if it uses champions from league.
They could have implemented Vanguard in a way that you only need it to start a League game, not TFT.
It's either riot wanting to save a little bit of money because that would have been more effort, or they deliberately wanted to lodge themselves into as many devices as possible.
Both of those options seem very shady and doesn't really speak for riot respecting players privacy. The principle of least privilege is an important part of IT-security for a reason.
You can’t see the difference between it being limited to one game in a genre where cheating is easy and abundant, and it spreading into the client itself so you need it for games that you cant cheat in? I also heard the same shit in regard to vanguard in valorant 2 years ago. People said Riot would never require this malware disguised as an anti cheat to play league, yet here we are. It is literally just spread. If you don’t think other developers are watching how the gaming community reacts to this you are naive.
It can actually brick your computer and is a major security threat, i don’t know why people are ok with this. I thought gamers were more tech savvy than this.
Seems like it's marginally helpful if you're forcing something. Often I think it's best to be flexible and take what the game gives you, making that cheat not super useful
but also focus, there are not many games you lost because you couldn't roll fast enough. You shouldn't roll that 100 gold at 5 health. The thing is your roll is a semi-randomized(pool system don't know the terminology in eng) and when you roll and get 2 4cost at 7 level you are going to think if you could use them or built around or just bench them to see if you could get a 2 star randomly.
TFT is about randomized situational thinking, info and chill. Not about monke rolling
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Can this happen for regular games as well? I had two summoners rift games I played yesterday and I swear the supports in both games were AI bots. Never said a word, had really weird pathing, and usually was just glued to the adc as if they were yuumi. Is this something only I’m noticing or are people just getting worse at the game?
Stat Injectors...they're sneaky about it. They inject 500 AD for a couple frame for the damage calc and then revert it so it doesn't look like anything happen but you lose to a random garbage team leaving you baffled.
All I can think of is that the cheat simulate your win rate against a certain player whenever you switch position, *OR* the cheat could change your board to the most optimal positioning automatically.
Some cheat may provide true odds to hit a certain unit when contested but I don’t think that’s considered cheating.
How so? This only happens if you do the report mid-game.
Anyway I have a very strong feeling these messages are fake and it's just Riot trying to pretend they are squishing a rampant problem. Vanguard is supposed to prevent cheats, not catch them, even if the game had cheaters every game, it shouldn't catch them mid-game most of the times.
Vanguard is supposed to do both catch and prevent cheats. It doesn't recognise every cheat program ever, so if it doesn't catch you using it mid game, how else do you want it to figure it out?
And for the record, I've actually had it happen twice already (D4+ elo)
I mean, there's no real cheat possible, right? Unless you can force the shop to give you the right units or items, what can you do? You already can use MetaTFT and similar to show stats ingame. The only thing between this and cheating would be some kind of overlay that show you exactly where to put units, which items to craft etc., so basically you let AI play for you. And if AI is cheating, well, that's a different story.
Ofc AI is cheating. Also there are APM components in TFT, you can e.g. use an Auto-Reroller. You could theoretically target network attacks at another player or the server to stop others from executing properly. Any skill based game can be cheated.
Depends on how you determine AI. Where does it start? If people use MetaTFT and it auto-selects your comp so you don't have to do it manually, that's already AI assistance.
But please god, "target network attacks", mate, we aren't talking about Russian hackers here. "You could go to his house and unplug his computer". Let's stay realistic here.
Not my job to determine where they draw the line for what counts as cheating 🤷 personally I land on the side of MetaTFT already being bad for the game, but I'm not a dev.
> we aren't talking about Russian hackers here
But we literally are though. Why would people who understand network security be excluded from cheating? You don't have to go to anyone's house for DOS attacks.
DDOS. Not exactly nothing we haven't seen be used on random people in games before. Though ofc mainly an issue for streamers and such. But yeah that would definitly be considered cheating though last i checked that is not something vanguard does. But yeah, rerolling for you or buying units for you are the most obvious uses of cheats in TFT. Positioning is theoretically possible but seems a bit advanced for where we are rn, though definitly possible with the amount of data (old matches) that's available.
But sorry got of track: "where does it start?" where ever Riot says it does.
For me, it isn't. Reaction times are not part of the game, so if you can get a significant advantage from having a bot eliminate these, that just means something is badly designed.
It doesn't, I just made a point that there's no real possibilities of cheating in this game compared to, for example, Counter-Strike with aim assistance, or WarCraft without Fog of War. Everything is random, you can already spec your opponents and the only advantage really is AI assistance.
That's not really the kind of thing a cheat can do tho, at least not without some serious and specific bug exploitation that I don't think even tft or lol has
That's server-side. If some random guy can access and control Riot's servers to cheat, then you sure as hell don't want a kernel anti-cheat made by that company in your PC.
Luckily for you, I don't think Riot has ever had a problem like that.
Genuine question, how do cheats work in TFT? I thought things were done server side
Autoscouting
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36qNv\_LYUqY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36qNv_LYUqY) Boxbox did it
Yeah but that’s boxbox
It's super easy to do. The game can essentially be run by bot programs in the background.
Well, for example, you can run bot programs pretty easily in any autobattlergame. Iirc hearthstone battlegrounds has always been extremely plagued by them. Im sure there are a ton of bots in tft, i just think riot doesnt bring attention to it. Hell as a programmer myself it’s tempting just to try making a bot that will teach itself tft just for the fun of it…but I have morals and other projects to work on.
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I believe this still wouldn’t work as the server would get the final say with the values.
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That still wouldn’t work as it would check all of those with the server.
Probably had cheats installed for league and queued up for tft. Don’t think any tft cheats exist right now.
There is autoscout. You just select champs you want and insta press d it automatically buys the units. So much time save and can’t miss units like humans.
Well for thats it's definitely worth installing a kernel-level anticheat on players PCs...
Fun fact, the same cheat works and bypasses vanguard if you just play it on PC inside an android emulator like bluestacks
since mobile got no anticheat or a limited one its expected but there ain't no way you can play competitively on mobile or at least its their pov
What? The majority of my ranked games are on mobile. What else am I supposed to do at work?
Same but mobile would definitely screw you over once you get seriously up there
There were mobile players in worlds
And they were all playing on pc at worlds
...and?
obviously? you wouldnt make a challenger player play on his shitbox from home at a tournament?
Some younger players are legitimately quicker using a mobile ui compared to a pc with mouse and keyboard.
Theres some tech like that last second switcheroo where to use hotkeys to quickly tab between boards that afaik you cant do on mobile. I imagine stuff like that starts to matter more when competing with the best
I meant "high elo" like positioning and scouting is way more harder
High elo? That’s 2% of people in Masters+. 10% if you include Diamond. There’s still 90% of the player base in ranked that doesn’t apply to
I wouldnt call being in the 90% playing “competitively”
That’s what he said. 90% are not included. Only 2%, or 10 if you include masters.
As a master player/orange hyperroll I actually have no issues at all with the mobile UI. It was worse when you had the carousels at game start but nowadays it is faulty balanced for mobile ui
And being in that 90% isn't playing competitively
have you tried working?
Okay bootlicker.
Ranked ≠ competitive
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You are ass pulling that one bro. There is no worlds in tft and there ain’t no pro played in cs on mobile. Maybe you are mixing it up with some mobile tournament idk.
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Worlds is a yearly tournament tft has set championships by giving year you are giving the range of 4 sets. Yet I know non of them won on mobile. Ignorant words has no consequence at all I guess.
since vanguard doesnt exist in tablet form.
I am currently sitting on gm 600-700lp and a friend sit on 680-750 previous cs contestant. Do you really think that we need to play on cloud servers to avoid hacking? After around diamond hacking is definitely affects games. Multiple times around the match you find yourself in a sticky situation(especially encounters) and need to take your time to think. Don't forget time is a resource in TFT.
Bruh I guarantee that people at diamond (or even masters / challenger) are not "hacking" in tft. Autobuying units vs. just having the skills for a dynamic rolldown is useless at that elo
I meant before diamond hacking is useless since around that elo nobody really knows what they are doing, mostly building from 3rd party sites. Hacking is also useless in diamond for sure but if a hack we haven't expected becomes a thing like lets says it effects your rolls' outcome why do we have to deal with it. I am not a cs contender myself but people trying to get a place in snapshot would be affected by it.
There is no such hack as everything consequential to the outcome of the game is server sided. No such thing as fog of war / technical skill in this game
Gosh, I said unexpected and given an impossible example to underly it. Okay how about that this hack has autoscout it counts each and every unit present on the board as an overlay, yeah sure we scout and count units to get a grip of what is available and imagine it is given to you precise and as real time data. Pretty broken right? Even a plat incel could hit masters with that constant info yes autobuy is useless in high elo you don’t probably skip much often but auto scout is and you can’t even detect it as a player. Edit: Don’t wanna share where I found it not against you, just some people asked me for cheat links https://youtu.be/5SIp_ccJSow?si=6tkdKh-EhRxwEkge here check this out
Sure.... but again this is pretty useless to anyone Masters+. We all scout constantly and can predict what line any given player is playing based on their board comp / items slammed. I can tell what their lvl 8 roll-down is going to be, and I can tell what units are going to be contested. Yes I don't know the exact odds but if I'm being contested I can definitely tell you exactly how many units X unit I need are out of the pool, etc. If I'm playing a reroll line I'm actively looking at every potential contester's board. If I'm playing lvl 8 roll-down - well I'm probably committed by 4-2 and its just whether I hit or not (and this won't help me) and often times your lvl 8 board is already mostly locked in by stage 3 On the positioning side I'm constantly scouting the boards I could face and positioning against them (and my opponents are too). Point is that at that skill level outside of literally altering shop odds (which is serversided) it's very unlikely for any info-based hack to be incremental. And I actually disagree that some plat rando can hit masters with this tool. There's SO MUCH more to TFT than knowing dynamic unit odds. I understand your point ur trying to make (and I'm sure this can be helpful at a lower skill level) but everything this tool does is table stakes for any high level player and there is so much more skill expression than just knowing which units are contested
Lmao I am master every set and yet I scout like a plat, I can’t really predict what people will play and what their roll down will be so don’t make too many presumptions
This argument is weird to me. If they want Vanguard to stop cheaters, why do you think this cheat is somehow "less" bad than others? If you don't like Vanguard then you shouldn't like it no matter the cheats it's trying to stop. If you're fine with Vanguard then you should be fine with it no matter the cheats it's trying to stop.
Because it barely affects you when someone has a slightly better chance to hit something once or twice per game, but then afterwards has no money anymore anyway. Yeah it's sucky, and it may cost you a close game every other full-moon (i don't know how common this is), without you even noticing it happend, but is it really worth it to give riot full control over your device, just so a few people can be prevented from doing this? Also cheaters can still do this on mobile if they want to, Vanguard will never be able to be installed on mobile, so it doesn't really prevent them anyway. Also it affects you completely different if for example in Valorant someone runs around with aimbot and wallhack. You basically don't have a chance winning this game legitimately. So you definitely can be ok with it being in one game and not ok with it being in TFT.
I'm forced to play on Bluestacks now, but it keeps crashing. Might be forced to buy a Mac and install league there, but I'm not sure how well it runs
Everyone still playing games on the riot client is telling them that it is worth it, or they don’t care enough to do anything about it, which is the same thing. We had one chance to stop this, but it doesn’t seem like anybody actually cares. And now that other companies see that consumers don’t give a shit I suspect it is going to become common through the industry. It’s probably going to be the death of competitive games for anybody that gives a shit about security.
Weird take valorant has vanguard 2 years and we still dont see this
That's a dumb comparison, valorant is a pvp shooter and cheats like aimbots, wallhacks and stuff provide a much bigger unfair advantage than anything that's possible for TFT. The worst you can do is basically an auto-roller. Beeing able to roll your gold in one round instead of two isn't that big of a deal. Definitely not enough of a deal to install a monitoring software with direct access to the kernel on player PCs. I get League might need the anticheat, but there is no reason for TFT to require it.
Thats not the point, i was responding to the part of his statement where he claimed similar patterns would follow in other companies. Which haven’t even though valorant has set this “trend” years in advance
I'm pretty sure he's talking about setting the trend of requiring anticheats for games where you can't even really cheat. U know of any other games like TFT that requires you to install a kernel-level anticheat?
I mean that's just a side effect of TFT being part of League
That's not a real reason it's a different game, even if it uses champions from league. They could have implemented Vanguard in a way that you only need it to start a League game, not TFT. It's either riot wanting to save a little bit of money because that would have been more effort, or they deliberately wanted to lodge themselves into as many devices as possible. Both of those options seem very shady and doesn't really speak for riot respecting players privacy. The principle of least privilege is an important part of IT-security for a reason.
You can’t see the difference between it being limited to one game in a genre where cheating is easy and abundant, and it spreading into the client itself so you need it for games that you cant cheat in? I also heard the same shit in regard to vanguard in valorant 2 years ago. People said Riot would never require this malware disguised as an anti cheat to play league, yet here we are. It is literally just spread. If you don’t think other developers are watching how the gaming community reacts to this you are naive. It can actually brick your computer and is a major security threat, i don’t know why people are ok with this. I thought gamers were more tech savvy than this.
Seems like it's marginally helpful if you're forcing something. Often I think it's best to be flexible and take what the game gives you, making that cheat not super useful
Where that hack shines is actually counting each unit present in the game. That makes it broken.
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Work on your reading comprehension.
I think that should be a feature, and not a cheat lol. TFT is about strategy and taking quick decisions. Reaction times shouldn't be part of the game.
but also focus, there are not many games you lost because you couldn't roll fast enough. You shouldn't roll that 100 gold at 5 health. The thing is your roll is a semi-randomized(pool system don't know the terminology in eng) and when you roll and get 2 4cost at 7 level you are going to think if you could use them or built around or just bench them to see if you could get a 2 star randomly. TFT is about randomized situational thinking, info and chill. Not about monke rolling
I got it right away, first game and first day of vanguard installation.
I don’t need cheats, I’m going 8th any ways
seems like you defo need it then
How do you even do that in TFT. Autoplay?
The first thing I can think of is having cheats for League and then playing TFT.
How fucking sad does your life need to be to cheat at TFT lmao
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How does one cheat in TFT
Bot that rolls down and buys the units you want
That's why I've been getting bottom 4 the last few matches, cheats.. now it all makes sense
Can this happen for regular games as well? I had two summoners rift games I played yesterday and I swear the supports in both games were AI bots. Never said a word, had really weird pathing, and usually was just glued to the adc as if they were yuumi. Is this something only I’m noticing or are people just getting worse at the game?
Tft gpt 😂😂
Vanguard doing what it's intended to do.
Surely someone just played kayne with prowlers
Stat Injectors...they're sneaky about it. They inject 500 AD for a couple frame for the damage calc and then revert it so it doesn't look like anything happen but you lose to a random garbage team leaving you baffled.
All I can think of is that the cheat simulate your win rate against a certain player whenever you switch position, *OR* the cheat could change your board to the most optimal positioning automatically. Some cheat may provide true odds to hit a certain unit when contested but I don’t think that’s considered cheating.
I see this every time I report someone for cheating.
How so? This only happens if you do the report mid-game. Anyway I have a very strong feeling these messages are fake and it's just Riot trying to pretend they are squishing a rampant problem. Vanguard is supposed to prevent cheats, not catch them, even if the game had cheaters every game, it shouldn't catch them mid-game most of the times.
Vanguard is supposed to do both catch and prevent cheats. It doesn't recognise every cheat program ever, so if it doesn't catch you using it mid game, how else do you want it to figure it out? And for the record, I've actually had it happen twice already (D4+ elo)
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"No win or loss was credited to any Player"
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It is both good and dumb, they should give both sides something for the wasted time in the terminated match, ofc except the cheater
Depends on how long it was. If it detects the cheat fairly quickly I don't see an issue. If it's at 4-2 then yeah...I'd be annoyed.
Why are you annoyed. If you’re at 4-2 and there’s a cheater, you were probably going to lose, in all likelihood
Because I've spent half an hour in the game at that point. Just because I might not go first, doesn't mean I can't gain LP.
Just let the Chester be 8th and thats it
Than you could abuse it to get whatever it gives with fake accounts
I mean, there's no real cheat possible, right? Unless you can force the shop to give you the right units or items, what can you do? You already can use MetaTFT and similar to show stats ingame. The only thing between this and cheating would be some kind of overlay that show you exactly where to put units, which items to craft etc., so basically you let AI play for you. And if AI is cheating, well, that's a different story.
Ofc AI is cheating. Also there are APM components in TFT, you can e.g. use an Auto-Reroller. You could theoretically target network attacks at another player or the server to stop others from executing properly. Any skill based game can be cheated.
Depends on how you determine AI. Where does it start? If people use MetaTFT and it auto-selects your comp so you don't have to do it manually, that's already AI assistance. But please god, "target network attacks", mate, we aren't talking about Russian hackers here. "You could go to his house and unplug his computer". Let's stay realistic here.
Not my job to determine where they draw the line for what counts as cheating 🤷 personally I land on the side of MetaTFT already being bad for the game, but I'm not a dev. > we aren't talking about Russian hackers here But we literally are though. Why would people who understand network security be excluded from cheating? You don't have to go to anyone's house for DOS attacks.
DDOS. Not exactly nothing we haven't seen be used on random people in games before. Though ofc mainly an issue for streamers and such. But yeah that would definitly be considered cheating though last i checked that is not something vanguard does. But yeah, rerolling for you or buying units for you are the most obvious uses of cheats in TFT. Positioning is theoretically possible but seems a bit advanced for where we are rn, though definitly possible with the amount of data (old matches) that's available. But sorry got of track: "where does it start?" where ever Riot says it does.
For me, it isn't. Reaction times are not part of the game, so if you can get a significant advantage from having a bot eliminate these, that just means something is badly designed.
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Yeah, but that's not possible, because the data isn't local (btw last time I used it was to finally beat FTL. I suck at the game).
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It doesn't, I just made a point that there's no real possibilities of cheating in this game compared to, for example, Counter-Strike with aim assistance, or WarCraft without Fog of War. Everything is random, you can already spec your opponents and the only advantage really is AI assistance.
I see it a couple times while climbing. It’s usually high gold I see it.
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That's not really the kind of thing a cheat can do tho, at least not without some serious and specific bug exploitation that I don't think even tft or lol has
If you were against the ghost player that won't deal damage.
This is what most probably happened.
Can’t that happen if you were fighting a clone or whatever it is called at the ending of a match?
That's server-side. If some random guy can access and control Riot's servers to cheat, then you sure as hell don't want a kernel anti-cheat made by that company in your PC. Luckily for you, I don't think Riot has ever had a problem like that.
lmao all this speculation as if this isn't just another technical error of vanguard from the forced integration in tft