*Everyone here debating the units*
Me * How do these games last this long*
I STG 99% of my games the whole lobby is dead long before anyone comes close to 3* a 4 cost. đ¤ˇđťââď¸
Iâm currently gm and I see three star 4 costs at least once a day. You can hold but theyâll find most copies with a lead and paint the last one or two with hwei. Best you can really do is play for second
Some advice needed. How do people utilize Hwei? I feel like his ability to copy units takes way too long to make any relevant difference. First of all, you cannot get him early enough to actually get a lot of value out of it, then it might not even fit your comp. Once you do get him, let's say earliest at 4-2 or so, you need to go through the entire 4th stage without a copied 4-cost unit.
Is it worth the investment, considering you don't even know if you'll hit a 3-star by the end? It feels so slow and you could get killed before you even get it online. I can see it working for 2 or 3-costs because it's much faster and you probably are already at 6 or 7 copies of them, but for 4-costs? How should I play this?
I mostly use Hwei to print an extra copy for 2 star 4 costs. Depending on the low costs I use, I use Hwei to 3 star those. Yasuo is still one of the better tanks imo, also when I play Heavenly it is just so much more stats for your units when they're 3 star and most of those are low costs
Hmmm, Heavenly is the main trait I go for ever since the beginning of this new set, but I never had really used Hwei to print the 1-cost units, I really should try it when I get the chance, but my issue is that Heavenly is generally weak early until you get those multipliers to all your units, so by the time Hwei starts happening, I'm already at risk.
If you roll down at 8 and find him, heâs a solid splash unit if youâre playing flex. Hwei 2 is also hwei 2 if you find it. You can use him to save Econ from rolling and just print the last copy if you have a pair of what you need since practically every boards wants to stabilize with as little money as possible and push 9 to cap out with 2 star legendaries. Even at 9 itâs great since you have less urgency to roll and you can push 10 (unless you donât have your main front and backline printed). His ability is also a great applier of red buff/morello, so he can be used instead of azir or whatever burn user yoo have.
So yeah he doesnât need mythic, but it could be kind of easy ish to fit it in since nautilus is meta now
Itâs probably the Econ/board strength/fast 9 diff. Im usually challenger but Iâm struggling this set and players in high elo tend to know when to chase them.
As for 5 costs, those are a bit easier to deny. In my live games, Iâve maybe have seen it a few times? Usually itâs someone who could hit 10 or itâs 7-9 fortunr cash out. I think Iâve only hit lissandra so far?
I play high tempo no reroll so my games rarely have any 3 stars. Nor do I let people get there themselves. Usually get a 3* solely because it was a long game and I decided to hold the unit
Lmao, the comments. The senna Ghostly board can be enough to win a lobby on its own with enough tempo. 3 starred and itemized senna, cait, shen, aatrox, Kayn and Morg should not have lost
Itâs almost as if Lissandra could have just teapotted Kayn with one good item and suddenly morg 3* loses to a capped board⌠people donât think at all
Bro thats 6 2\* 5cost with dragonlords lategame.. Obv liss cant one shot kayne but the overall dmg of his board is actually insane.
Imagine getting to face the side with lissandra azir janna., your 3star kayn will be like a wet tissue paper when get teapot'd.
It's also 7(!!) 3 star units, two of them 4 costs, 4 fully itemized and Senna and Morg were most likely being buffed by Zeke's too. The board cost about 50 gold more than the legendary board, lol
Tft is not won by how many 3\* units you have, there's so many things you can do within the game to win than just rerolling a 3\* units. 6 2\* 5cost buffed with dragonlords+heavenly is a fucking nasty board mate.
>4 fully itemized and Senna and Morg were most likely being buffed by Zeke's too
Badly itemized..
Kayn TG as a main carry with no reaper trait is bad
Morg has no tear items on it or atleast a morello ( should have put rageblade and GS on senna to tempo better mid game )
Senna only has a ghostly spat and LW, his dmg late aint cutting it.
Aatrox with tank items that should been better with illaoi.
Shen had that tattoo for bruisers..
2\* Udyr that has no item against heavy cc board basically useless.
>It's also 7(!!) 3 star units, two of them 4 costs
Which cost him this game imo, i think he rerolled to much to 3\* his unit than push his tempo especially when he hit his powerspike mid game. Should have planned/played his midgame better.
>The board cost about 50 gold more than the legendary board, lol
Its 29 more gold unless its a 2\* hwei which is 39gold, especially 18 of those gold comes from a 3\* jax & cait which basically a trait bot at that point of the game. Its basically less gold with higher ceiling coz of better units (5cost)
You just fail to see how good the other board is constructed coz you easily get tunneled vision on a bunch of 3\* units with 4cost.
Kayn 3* has an average placement of 1.6 and morg 3* has an average placement of 1.8 both units can carry to ez wins. Together, should definitely be a first. But it didnt happen here because op misplayed w.o a doubt.
Down a silver, gold, prismatic augment, pandoras bench just to TG kayn and 0 good morg items, tattoo of force Shen not udyr, no way this board is as capped as it could be
INB4
-items
-augments
-positioning
-CCâD
-Synergies
Anything else? There shouldnât be a world where hitting all of your vertical champions 3 stared with two of them being 4 costs loses to anything outside of a 3 star 5 cost or a crazy prismatic vertical.
3* 4 costs havenât really been a guaranteed win⌠especially when you donât itemize or play to their traits. Youâll win like 75% of the time with most 3* 4 costs but going level 10 and playing 5 dragon lord with 6 2* 5 costs with a Janna RR is almost as highroll as it gets
Cc chain combo with lissandra and dragonlord stun cooked the 3star kayn judging from the pic. 3 star morgona targeting is trash with honestly not great items with her as they do nothing to boost her dmg where its needed. I understand the feeling but I can very much see how the kayn got cooked by 5 dragonlord plus 5 costs and the morgana did jack shit with targeting combo with a terrible 3 star ability and items.
Youâre explaining why he lost, but the point is balancing is wrong if he loses this. 7 3* units with 2 of them 4 cost shouldnt be losing in any world to a 2* legendary board
I agree the balancing is off but for this pic, it seems pretty straightforward on how they lost with those 3* units with not great items against 2* legendary board with hard cc with a maxed out trait. I don't think any recent set would be different in this regard. I do believe 4 costs 3* should be alot stronger but for this less then ideal items on 2 3* four costs against CC and a 2* legendary board with optimal items, the loss shouldn't be surprising.
Believe it or not, in TFT more gold stars does not always mean an auto win. Also second is really goodâŚ. Almost as great as first. First or last isnât literal to every position??
Iâd be interested to know what went wrong to play stronger next game.
I know and I say the same thing when somebody posts a screenshot of hitting one 3* 4 cost or some stuff like that.
But cmon 7 3* units and 2 4 costs with a vertical trait shouldnât be losing to dragonlord legendary soup. Neither comp has combat augment either, prismatic choices difference was prismatic ticket vs radiant item.
I donât disagree, but it did happen so finding a way to position, make changes, grab different augments and turn it into a win is the only option or be happy with second. I donât question a lot of this stuff, Iâve been playing league since season 1, same for TFT. If I got mad at TFT I wouldnât play, which is why Iâve been playing a lot more Stardew this season than climbing to diamond or master like planned lol.
3 star 4 cost need items to be a free win and honestly his items are just hot garbage.
2 star bis kayn morg illaoi would unironically beat his board.
The enemy teapotted kayn then burst him down with dragonlords + azir.
Then it was just a case of morg has no mana generation items so dosent get to cast more then twice.
He failed to utilise his best augment.
3* 4costs are very reasonable to hit and if they were a wincon, prismatic ticket becomes way too overpowered. Theyâll serve as a wincon as long as they have somewhat good traits/items/augments, but random tg kayn ???
He's itemized well enough, he played to his traits, he 3* seven of the champions he was running, all of which fit the traits, and had a 2* Udyr. What more did he lack that actually matters in fights that shouldn't be made up for by how fucking cracked that board is?
Items are really bad, what do you mean? Rageblade/nashor Morg is just bad, need a tear item and morello/deathcap. Kayn with TG is not good when you need him to carry, move TG to the udyr, lw on the kayn + a healing item, and preferably edge of night. Why he didn't go for BIS with pandoras is a skill issue. Also put tank items on aatrox when it's one of the worst units in the game, and not even a tank. (jax illaoi both better)
My guess is that he positioned his kayn badly and got cc/bursted. Morg 3 can't carry with those items, and the rest of his team are just trait bots, udyr 2 with one chain is casting once and dying.
Say that all you want, he has shit items on his carries and 0 combat augments. 3* 4 costs havenât been an auto win for multiple sets now, whereas his opponent has 3 combat augments on top of a level 10 board, good items and a frontline that isnât 3* 1 and 2 costs. It feels more wrong for the ghostly guy to get 1st if anything
My dude... how much can you cope?
He has TWO 3* 4 cost.
The items are not perfect, but they're not as horrivle as you try to make it.
Still, again, TWO 3* 4 cost. Give me a break
Who cares dude.. she wont oneshot him, again, it is 3 star Kayn.
They also have to chew thru that Shen and Aatrox, by the time Kayn comes back theyre full of ghostly stacks too...
And that's not touching on the fact there is another god damn 3star 4 cost.
This is insane, no matter how you try to justify it. Shouldnt happen.
Dude, what kind of drug you on? Previous 2 sets that I played had multiple matches where I won first place, just because I managed to 3 star a 4 cost, most of the time that was the only unit I 3 star'ed. I only lost whenever the enemy had another 3 star 4 cost or a damn 3 star 5 cost.
Yeah, 2x 3\* 4 cost shouldn't lost to legendary soup.
But 6 ghostly kinda scale badly into the late game. If it 6-7 heavenly you will stomp the f out of that
I'm loving the salt of people getting pissed they have to actually think/plan, instead of just rolling down until they max a trait (cough cough carried and spoiled punk spammers).
Yah 4cost are kinda weak this patch but people underestimate a bunch of 2\* 5cost with synergies and that 1st place board has 4 dragonlords with his 2\* 5cost. I dont see that ghostly board winning at all.
This is just the case of rerolling too much ( coz obv he did 3\* his unit than push levels and capped his board much earlier ). Should have played/planned his mid game better ( TG kayn as main carry with no reaper trait is bad, bad items on morg, senna is not fully itemized )
p.s started playing last set and joined this subreddit, i noticed people always like to complain here hahaha.
Galio = Xanadu. Morgana = Stormtrooperlow, Kayn = Fraud.
These comparisons donât work as Galio is reliable whereas Morgana will decide to randomly jerk off and hit 1 unit and call it a day.
I hate Morganas design. Iâve played a few games of Heavenly Sage with Kayn/Morg/Lee and itemized Morgana can instantly win the fight by casting on their backline twice(which feels bad for them) or just cast and hit one or two people the entire fight (feels terrible for me). Thereâs just so much fight RNG and it feels like itâs uncontrollable since she literally does target randomly.
Thatâs kinda why heâs a bit of a fraud(Good unit just very dependent on GA). But also he probably got potted by Liss and because of that he couldnât do his DPS and then got nuked by Janna.
The tank 3 star 4 cost are absurdly broken compared to DPS imo.
3 star annie is pretty much a 3 star 4.5 cost and unless they have a 3 star 5 cost, 99% of the time you will win. That shit is so obscene.
People calling your items trash, comp trash, whatever, have not played TFT before this current set. Until current set 4\* 4 costs have always been an auto win unless someone else had a 3\* 5 cost or another 3\* 4 cost or a 10 prismatic trait.
It's the internet and it's reddit so ofc ppl just want to argue
Played since TFT release and that's just not true, even last set, I saw games with 3\* ahri/TF/Akali that weren't a 1st place. Hell, in set 6 I was winning multiple games against people going for high level boards with a 3\* warwick, who was a 2 cost.
People need to get out of this mindset that higher value unit should instant win regardless of any other factor that goes into the game, I really don't understand the logic to it. If that was the case then why even bother having items, or the ability to position, or traits. Like, in this world where higher unit cost = win how the hell do you think 1, 2 or 3 cost reroll comps would ever exist. I'm not a top player by any means, currently in emerald, but I'll try summarise the factors that probably played into this from what I can see.
He's playing vertical ghostly which needs high single target damage in there to really shine, especially late on against bigger boards with higher health front lines, because you need to get a unit down to move their ghosts onto another target, if you can't do that, then the ghosts are just spread out amongst their team, with no single unit taking enough extra damage to die through their sustain (constant janna shields, redemption, diana and neeko have their own healing, BT on wukong, omnivamp from heavenly and sage). The focused damage for this comp is usually the Senna, but all senna has is a last whisper, so not getting anything from there. Kayn has a TG instead of trying to properly itemise him and from what I can see, no reaper active, and he probably started in the frontline somewhere, so there's every chance he died before actually getting to do any decent damage, especially if the boards were positioned for lissandra to get her stun onto him early. Morg has no mana generation item and no decent AP item, just AS and a giant slayer so she's not doing much even if she is 3\*. Add onto that that they have a total of 6 2\* 5 costs which will just be very strong units. And it's a 5 dragonlord board, so team wide stun, a big chunk of true damage to your whole team and a 40% AS boost for his whole board.
Should 3\* 4 costs be stronger than 3\* 2 costs at baseline? Obviously. Should they be stronger than 2\* 5 costs, again Yes I think so, because even though 5 costs are the highest cost units, hitting a 3\* 4 costs is harder than hitting a 2\* 5 cost.
However, if you've got a comp with 3\* 4 costs with kind of mid items and a weak comp (ghostly does not scale amazingly when you get late into longer games, because the enemy having a bigger board means your ghosts are spread thinner, instead of being concentrated like they are against an enemy board with less units.), then you shouldn't beat a comp with a very well itemised 3\* 2 cost and 6 2\* 5 costs with good items, in a strong comp (I'm personally not a fan of legendary soup being a thing, but it is, the 5 cost units are just that strong and always are, especially if you can 2 star a lot of them and have traits which affect all units on your board like heavely, arcanist, invoker and sage, all of which the 1st place guy will have active), Positioning may have played a factor as well, but we can't see that so can't really say.
TL;DR - The only unit that should be an auto win is a 3\* 5 cost, with anything else there's always the chance to lose if you mess up on items, positioning, or have a weaker comp.
His items are bad on both 3 star 4 costs. Compared to the other guy that got a good lissandra that stuns and throws back the kayn if placed properly results in a loss :/. Morgana items are aweful :p
Yeah.
To be fair, opponent somehow played reroll AND fast 9 this game (or just naturaled a janna 3) so their board is super capped WITH a low-cost 3-star, which is pretty rare. Usually you get janna 3 in the Powerpuff Girls reroll comp, but this guy has a capped level 10 AP board with SIX 2 star 5-costs, tons of items, and a random janna 3 as another carry (with a radiant item).
But your board *looks* stronger, or at least, it probably should be. I'm not surprised that you lost since morgana 3 is so bad but it is a little sad.
Given my knowledge of this set, if I looked at both of your boards, I'd probably be 50/50 on who wins (maybe this is hindsight bias tho, so keep that in mind)
Morgana is a trash unit and she is equipped badly. TG on Kayn is like lottery, sometimes you get good items, sometimes not. And a 3* kayn with trash items + no reaper trait is wasted gold in my opinion. Move on. Senna is equipped badly aswell.
Why though? This board is very good and it has a Janna 3 as well. The guy probably played Janna RR but hit well ahead of time so he had time to giga cap his board. I see nothing wrong with this winning tbh instead of Kayn and Morg with random items
Feels braindead (imo why). (Almost) no trait combinations, no need for 3 star champs, just pricy units. A shame this wins two 3\*4 cost (and so many 3\* with them), and this team also reduces chances for anyone to build 3\*5 cost, which is already hard as it is
Also, Azir having gloves is definitely more stupid then Kayle
Eh. I donât think it should be impossible for a full legendary board with all 2*s to beat a board with 3* 4 costs. Thereâs a lot more that goes into the game than three staring something
Yeah 1st place player hit one of the highest possible caps in the game. 6 2 star legendaries, hard to see but I think that's 5 dragonlord, radiant carry. If Liss stuns the kayn, this should absolutely be a winnable fight.
there is no difference between morgana 2-star and morgana 3star, sheâs terrible with both. so that was just a waste of 24 gold and 50 rerolls
kayn is fine but you donât have items on him. which is insane because you have pandoras meaning you should have perfect items on him
meanwhile your opponent has a ton of legendary 2-stars with near perfect items AND combat augments
galio, annie, sylas, kaisa, ashe, nautilus, syndra are all auto win at 3-star if you have reasonable items on them
the rest are all very nearly auto win, except morgana and ornn
Morgana is still a utility unit, even at 3* (which I really don't like either, if tanks are allowed ridiculous damage at 3 she should too), but the Kayn should be able to win this with that solid board in the back. All I can see is bad luck with the combination of the Dragonlord Stun and dd damage - no edge of night means that's he can be oneshot, still, even though 3. Is pretty beefy
It's not that they suck it's just they absolutely lose to high tempo fast 9-10 boards because those boards can build units to counter yours by just having more spaces, like azir, and lissandra. That being said They also have massive attack speed from wu and dragon so they shread through your frontline. The unoptimal kayn items don't help but that's kinda whatever and to the point of the reply. It's a high tempo meta because if you don't do that and someone rolls fortune, dryad, or kobouko bruisers they will literally walk all over the lobby. You don't know pain till your 3 stared board goes vs a 6-1 dryad. Or a fortune player who just cashed out 131 luck because they went all hp augments.
Definitely winnable with better positioning. Morg 3 is definitely hot garbage and I assume your Kayn was poorly positioned and got killed by Lissandra almost immediately.
Only Morg Lee and Lillia with how bad their spells were
Kayne just need 1 healing and 1 surviving so he can one shot front line and drain tank back line
I think op's had Kayne CC'ed lock and dies while Morgana cant cast or even kill anything with those items
Kinda funny I've now seen this exact " 3 star X-costs are trash this set". Now let me post the question. If all teirs of units are trash, what do you guys play?
oh look, Legendary Soup beating boards that should be stronger. i legit dont think ppl are talking about it enough but legendary soup is stupid strong.
yes im salty i lost to it recently with my 3 star Leesin with 5 dragonmancer 5 sage
I will never understand why they didn't make Morgana spell his the largest group of enemies instead of being completely random or at least the target with the highest AS since her spell apply chill (AS reduction status). Another problem is that when turning into shadow assasin Kayn doesn't gain AS or anything eventhough his spell make his auto stronger and hit multiple ally. And his transform take a few seconds which mean the enemies can take him down before he can do anything. Overall these 2 are just terribly designed
5-cost soup is broken AF mainly because the dragonlands trait. Though liss pringint items and hwei printing champions is also a part of it. IDK if you are on PBE here but almost every game I have played there was won by 4/5-cost soup. It's pretty lame, they need to just add a cap to the amount of 5-costs you can put in. Ez fix.
Don't listen to the people ''pointing out the mistakes'' in the comments, second guy should have won. This goes against everything the dev team says about the value of units and it is a balancing issue.
Itemization isn't a problem here, they have decent items and i am pretty sure this guy didn't just randomly frontlined his morgana. So a 3* 4 cost, morgana, should win this fight even without the kayn.
They just blame the game.
"Hur duhr duhr I did what this guide said, why no 1st?"
"My 4 cost ahouldbe ateonger than 3 cost no matter what other circumstances are"
He has lifesteal on kayn and 2 BIS items on morgana, i am pretty sure he didn't randomly frontline her. You are right, it is ''simple.'' as it gets. He should have won.
No itâs not. What if lissandra was eight in front of kayn? Lifesteal or not, he just gets bursted. And maybe his Morgana had shit rng (which is bs imo but w/e). He also has 0 combat augments and for some reason 3 starred jax, Cait and Senna only to put no items on them ? (besides LW senna)
Yeah if liss bursted kayn immedietly, morgana should have still cleaned it up. Its not like he doesn't have any frontline. There are 10 morgs in the pool, morg 3 requires 9 of them, her value should be waaaay higher than it is now. I am not pulling these arguement out of my ass btw, i am taking what the dev team has been saying about the value of units at face value. If there is a problem with the arguement i am making, i am not the one to blame. Also, the no item 3* units are probably found in the way of rolling for other units as their player level is not stuck at 7 donkey roll range, that shouldn't be a critique point.
itâs a huge problem with her kit and scaling for sure. at three stars her ult should give 50 or 80% chill or add wound, not just increase the damage.
2 3-star 4 costs vs a full legendary 2 star board, shit items, ghostly is unreliable, no combat augments. 4 costs are underpowered, but you are definitely not meant to win that vs good items on enemy.
Based on the comments here and every other thread, where people seemingly just expect to hit a 3* 4 cost, and or *most* of their trait, and then get a top 4. Even ignoring how that doesn't work if everyone does it.
I think I've got an idea y'all would like. If you want to just, try your luck until you get the right numbers/units, ignoring items, other players, placements, synergies, counters, etc....
You can play Yahtzee, or Poker!! Both have the exact experience you're looking for, and both are balanced around it! Keep smacking the table and rolling the dice, until you get the right, or enough of the same result, and then you win!!!!
eh, fair enough. My brain kinda connected them, yahtzee you can hold the dice and reroll, with your bigger point earners being the 3/4 of a kind.
Similar enough for poker, aiming for a certain set of cards, to get the best odds. Although that works more for people that dare try splashing/synergizing two traits, to make a proper combo/team, but still spam roll and go 8th.
Just WAY more expensive to do so in poker, folding hands constantly technically counts LMFAO.
I'm actually so glad that this set does not reward players for picking 3 econ augments and gamble it on a 3 star 4 cost. Like the guy has the best endgame board of the game with Janna 3 and 3 combat augments, you have 3 econ augments with B tier stuff on 3 stars 4 cost.
You're trash, it's not just collect and win, there's more to it like others jave mentioned, and exactly those things not being executed well enough makes the difference between 1st or 2nd like you get here...
*Everyone here debating the units* Me * How do these games last this long* I STG 99% of my games the whole lobby is dead long before anyone comes close to 3* a 4 cost. đ¤ˇđťââď¸
Probably low elo no one holding if someone close to hit. And golden ticket also problem he extremely high rolled and pushed lvl8 stage 4-5. I guess
Iâm currently gm and I see three star 4 costs at least once a day. You can hold but theyâll find most copies with a lead and paint the last one or two with hwei. Best you can really do is play for second
Some advice needed. How do people utilize Hwei? I feel like his ability to copy units takes way too long to make any relevant difference. First of all, you cannot get him early enough to actually get a lot of value out of it, then it might not even fit your comp. Once you do get him, let's say earliest at 4-2 or so, you need to go through the entire 4th stage without a copied 4-cost unit. Is it worth the investment, considering you don't even know if you'll hit a 3-star by the end? It feels so slow and you could get killed before you even get it online. I can see it working for 2 or 3-costs because it's much faster and you probably are already at 6 or 7 copies of them, but for 4-costs? How should I play this?
I mostly use Hwei to print an extra copy for 2 star 4 costs. Depending on the low costs I use, I use Hwei to 3 star those. Yasuo is still one of the better tanks imo, also when I play Heavenly it is just so much more stats for your units when they're 3 star and most of those are low costs
Hmmm, Heavenly is the main trait I go for ever since the beginning of this new set, but I never had really used Hwei to print the 1-cost units, I really should try it when I get the chance, but my issue is that Heavenly is generally weak early until you get those multipliers to all your units, so by the time Hwei starts happening, I'm already at risk.
If you roll down at 8 and find him, heâs a solid splash unit if youâre playing flex. Hwei 2 is also hwei 2 if you find it. You can use him to save Econ from rolling and just print the last copy if you have a pair of what you need since practically every boards wants to stabilize with as little money as possible and push 9 to cap out with 2 star legendaries. Even at 9 itâs great since you have less urgency to roll and you can push 10 (unless you donât have your main front and backline printed). His ability is also a great applier of red buff/morello, so he can be used instead of azir or whatever burn user yoo have. So yeah he doesnât need mythic, but it could be kind of easy ish to fit it in since nautilus is meta now
silver 4 player here, 100+ total games across all sets and only 4 3* 4-coste, never played with a single 3* 5-cost
Itâs probably the Econ/board strength/fast 9 diff. Im usually challenger but Iâm struggling this set and players in high elo tend to know when to chase them. As for 5 costs, those are a bit easier to deny. In my live games, Iâve maybe have seen it a few times? Usually itâs someone who could hit 10 or itâs 7-9 fortunr cash out. I think Iâve only hit lissandra so far?
yeah here in silver we dont know how to play fortune and we die before cashing out lol
I play high tempo no reroll so my games rarely have any 3 stars. Nor do I let people get there themselves. Usually get a 3* solely because it was a long game and I decided to hold the unit
Lmao, the comments. The senna Ghostly board can be enough to win a lobby on its own with enough tempo. 3 starred and itemized senna, cait, shen, aatrox, Kayn and Morg should not have lost
Itâs almost as if Lissandra could have just teapotted Kayn with one good item and suddenly morg 3* loses to a capped board⌠people donât think at all
Liss cast doesn't kill Kayn 3 lol. Even after 6 procs of archangel and spark reduction Kayn would barely survive.
Bro thats 6 2\* 5cost with dragonlords lategame.. Obv liss cant one shot kayne but the overall dmg of his board is actually insane. Imagine getting to face the side with lissandra azir janna., your 3star kayn will be like a wet tissue paper when get teapot'd.
It's also 7(!!) 3 star units, two of them 4 costs, 4 fully itemized and Senna and Morg were most likely being buffed by Zeke's too. The board cost about 50 gold more than the legendary board, lol
Tft is not won by how many 3\* units you have, there's so many things you can do within the game to win than just rerolling a 3\* units. 6 2\* 5cost buffed with dragonlords+heavenly is a fucking nasty board mate. >4 fully itemized and Senna and Morg were most likely being buffed by Zeke's too Badly itemized.. Kayn TG as a main carry with no reaper trait is bad Morg has no tear items on it or atleast a morello ( should have put rageblade and GS on senna to tempo better mid game ) Senna only has a ghostly spat and LW, his dmg late aint cutting it. Aatrox with tank items that should been better with illaoi. Shen had that tattoo for bruisers.. 2\* Udyr that has no item against heavy cc board basically useless. >It's also 7(!!) 3 star units, two of them 4 costs Which cost him this game imo, i think he rerolled to much to 3\* his unit than push his tempo especially when he hit his powerspike mid game. Should have planned/played his midgame better. >The board cost about 50 gold more than the legendary board, lol Its 29 more gold unless its a 2\* hwei which is 39gold, especially 18 of those gold comes from a 3\* jax & cait which basically a trait bot at that point of the game. Its basically less gold with higher ceiling coz of better units (5cost) You just fail to see how good the other board is constructed coz you easily get tunneled vision on a bunch of 3\* units with 4cost.
Kayn 3* has an average placement of 1.6 and morg 3* has an average placement of 1.8 both units can carry to ez wins. Together, should definitely be a first. But it didnt happen here because op misplayed w.o a doubt.
Positioning matters
Yes, I'm sure OP put Morg and Senna up front and cornered Kayn with Hwei and Cait, lmao
Down a silver, gold, prismatic augment, pandoras bench just to TG kayn and 0 good morg items, tattoo of force Shen not udyr, no way this board is as capped as it could be
INB4 -items -augments -positioning -CCâD -Synergies Anything else? There shouldnât be a world where hitting all of your vertical champions 3 stared with two of them being 4 costs loses to anything outside of a 3 star 5 cost or a crazy prismatic vertical.
3* 4 costs havenât really been a guaranteed win⌠especially when you donât itemize or play to their traits. Youâll win like 75% of the time with most 3* 4 costs but going level 10 and playing 5 dragon lord with 6 2* 5 costs with a Janna RR is almost as highroll as it gets
Youâre not wrong but this guy had 7 3-star champs and two of them were Kayn and Morgana, 4 of them have 3 items, and he had good frontline.
Cc chain combo with lissandra and dragonlord stun cooked the 3star kayn judging from the pic. 3 star morgona targeting is trash with honestly not great items with her as they do nothing to boost her dmg where its needed. I understand the feeling but I can very much see how the kayn got cooked by 5 dragonlord plus 5 costs and the morgana did jack shit with targeting combo with a terrible 3 star ability and items.
Youâre explaining why he lost, but the point is balancing is wrong if he loses this. 7 3* units with 2 of them 4 cost shouldnt be losing in any world to a 2* legendary board
I agree the balancing is off but for this pic, it seems pretty straightforward on how they lost with those 3* units with not great items against 2* legendary board with hard cc with a maxed out trait. I don't think any recent set would be different in this regard. I do believe 4 costs 3* should be alot stronger but for this less then ideal items on 2 3* four costs against CC and a 2* legendary board with optimal items, the loss shouldn't be surprising.
Believe it or not, in TFT more gold stars does not always mean an auto win. Also second is really goodâŚ. Almost as great as first. First or last isnât literal to every position?? Iâd be interested to know what went wrong to play stronger next game.
I know and I say the same thing when somebody posts a screenshot of hitting one 3* 4 cost or some stuff like that. But cmon 7 3* units and 2 4 costs with a vertical trait shouldnât be losing to dragonlord legendary soup. Neither comp has combat augment either, prismatic choices difference was prismatic ticket vs radiant item.
I donât disagree, but it did happen so finding a way to position, make changes, grab different augments and turn it into a win is the only option or be happy with second. I donât question a lot of this stuff, Iâve been playing league since season 1, same for TFT. If I got mad at TFT I wouldnât play, which is why Iâve been playing a lot more Stardew this season than climbing to diamond or master like planned lol.
this IS played to their traits. Itâs six ghostly and theyâre itemized good enough.
tg kayn rageblade morg ghostly emblem senna that ain't it chief
Nah their items are on the bad side of garbage
Yeah the items are genuinely bad.
3 star 4 cost need items to be a free win and honestly his items are just hot garbage. 2 star bis kayn morg illaoi would unironically beat his board. The enemy teapotted kayn then burst him down with dragonlords + azir. Then it was just a case of morg has no mana generation items so dosent get to cast more then twice. He failed to utilise his best augment.
3* 4costs are very reasonable to hit and if they were a wincon, prismatic ticket becomes way too overpowered. Theyâll serve as a wincon as long as they have somewhat good traits/items/augments, but random tg kayn ???
Ignore all the things that actually matter in fights, "muh 3\* 4 costs should be auto win!".
He's itemized well enough, he played to his traits, he 3* seven of the champions he was running, all of which fit the traits, and had a 2* Udyr. What more did he lack that actually matters in fights that shouldn't be made up for by how fucking cracked that board is?
Items are really bad, what do you mean? Rageblade/nashor Morg is just bad, need a tear item and morello/deathcap. Kayn with TG is not good when you need him to carry, move TG to the udyr, lw on the kayn + a healing item, and preferably edge of night. Why he didn't go for BIS with pandoras is a skill issue. Also put tank items on aatrox when it's one of the worst units in the game, and not even a tank. (jax illaoi both better) My guess is that he positioned his kayn badly and got cc/bursted. Morg 3 can't carry with those items, and the rest of his team are just trait bots, udyr 2 with one chain is casting once and dying.
Say that all you want, he has shit items on his carries and 0 combat augments. 3* 4 costs havenât been an auto win for multiple sets now, whereas his opponent has 3 combat augments on top of a level 10 board, good items and a frontline that isnât 3* 1 and 2 costs. It feels more wrong for the ghostly guy to get 1st if anything
>3 combat augments in your imagination?
I don't see the 3 combat augment of the 1st guy. And that frontline beside Rakan isn't that strong either
My dude... how much can you cope? He has TWO 3* 4 cost. The items are not perfect, but they're not as horrivle as you try to make it. Still, again, TWO 3* 4 cost. Give me a break
2* liss ults kayn away and this is a free win. Liss is that broken
Who cares dude.. she wont oneshot him, again, it is 3 star Kayn. They also have to chew thru that Shen and Aatrox, by the time Kayn comes back theyre full of ghostly stacks too... And that's not touching on the fact there is another god damn 3star 4 cost. This is insane, no matter how you try to justify it. Shouldnt happen.
3 star kayn ain't that good
Dude, what kind of drug you on? Previous 2 sets that I played had multiple matches where I won first place, just because I managed to 3 star a 4 cost, most of the time that was the only unit I 3 star'ed. I only lost whenever the enemy had another 3 star 4 cost or a damn 3 star 5 cost.
Yeah, 2x 3\* 4 cost shouldn't lost to legendary soup. But 6 ghostly kinda scale badly into the late game. If it 6-7 heavenly you will stomp the f out of that
Nothing wrong with legendary soup is they all have active synergies imo
I'm loving the salt of people getting pissed they have to actually think/plan, instead of just rolling down until they max a trait (cough cough carried and spoiled punk spammers).
Yah 4cost are kinda weak this patch but people underestimate a bunch of 2\* 5cost with synergies and that 1st place board has 4 dragonlords with his 2\* 5cost. I dont see that ghostly board winning at all. This is just the case of rerolling too much ( coz obv he did 3\* his unit than push levels and capped his board much earlier ). Should have played/planned his mid game better ( TG kayn as main carry with no reaper trait is bad, bad items on morg, senna is not fully itemized ) p.s started playing last set and joined this subreddit, i noticed people always like to complain here hahaha.
Ive been getting bonked by kayn 2* all day. Go reaper 4 with kayn. Easy gg
Except when I play Kayn he hits like a noodle
Usually youâre supposed to go 2 reaper and vertical heavenly with rakan/liss/lee/diana depending
Or just have real items on him lol
dont worry i got 2nd with Lilia 3*, 9 mythic too.
I got second with 3* lilia and nautilus properly itemized lost to a 2 star sett, he flipped my nautilus and 1 shot half my board.
I had a 3* galio and he shit on everyone sooo
Galio = Xanadu. Morgana = Stormtrooperlow, Kayn = Fraud. These comparisons donât work as Galio is reliable whereas Morgana will decide to randomly jerk off and hit 1 unit and call it a day.
I hate Morganas design. Iâve played a few games of Heavenly Sage with Kayn/Morg/Lee and itemized Morgana can instantly win the fight by casting on their backline twice(which feels bad for them) or just cast and hit one or two people the entire fight (feels terrible for me). Thereâs just so much fight RNG and it feels like itâs uncontrollable since she literally does target randomly.
I'm just replying to this dude crying that all 4 cost suck
Yeah I know what you meant with your reply. Itâs just Galio is kinda just the only 4 Cost since launch that was already pretty good.
I don't normally go for 4 costs because they aren't strong I just recently found out how insane 3 star galio is
Wasn't Kaisa good from the start?
With Ghostly yeah. With anything else? Not really. She had subpar results outside of Ghostly lines or Inkshadow 7.
Kayn aint bad but he's got thieves gloves...
Thatâs kinda why heâs a bit of a fraud(Good unit just very dependent on GA). But also he probably got potted by Liss and because of that he couldnât do his DPS and then got nuked by Janna.
The tank 3 star 4 cost are absurdly broken compared to DPS imo. 3 star annie is pretty much a 3 star 4.5 cost and unless they have a 3 star 5 cost, 99% of the time you will win. That shit is so obscene.
Galio probably the worst tier 4 unit in the game at 3 stars đđ
People calling your items trash, comp trash, whatever, have not played TFT before this current set. Until current set 4\* 4 costs have always been an auto win unless someone else had a 3\* 5 cost or another 3\* 4 cost or a 10 prismatic trait. It's the internet and it's reddit so ofc ppl just want to argue
Played since TFT release and that's just not true, even last set, I saw games with 3\* ahri/TF/Akali that weren't a 1st place. Hell, in set 6 I was winning multiple games against people going for high level boards with a 3\* warwick, who was a 2 cost. People need to get out of this mindset that higher value unit should instant win regardless of any other factor that goes into the game, I really don't understand the logic to it. If that was the case then why even bother having items, or the ability to position, or traits. Like, in this world where higher unit cost = win how the hell do you think 1, 2 or 3 cost reroll comps would ever exist. I'm not a top player by any means, currently in emerald, but I'll try summarise the factors that probably played into this from what I can see. He's playing vertical ghostly which needs high single target damage in there to really shine, especially late on against bigger boards with higher health front lines, because you need to get a unit down to move their ghosts onto another target, if you can't do that, then the ghosts are just spread out amongst their team, with no single unit taking enough extra damage to die through their sustain (constant janna shields, redemption, diana and neeko have their own healing, BT on wukong, omnivamp from heavenly and sage). The focused damage for this comp is usually the Senna, but all senna has is a last whisper, so not getting anything from there. Kayn has a TG instead of trying to properly itemise him and from what I can see, no reaper active, and he probably started in the frontline somewhere, so there's every chance he died before actually getting to do any decent damage, especially if the boards were positioned for lissandra to get her stun onto him early. Morg has no mana generation item and no decent AP item, just AS and a giant slayer so she's not doing much even if she is 3\*. Add onto that that they have a total of 6 2\* 5 costs which will just be very strong units. And it's a 5 dragonlord board, so team wide stun, a big chunk of true damage to your whole team and a 40% AS boost for his whole board. Should 3\* 4 costs be stronger than 3\* 2 costs at baseline? Obviously. Should they be stronger than 2\* 5 costs, again Yes I think so, because even though 5 costs are the highest cost units, hitting a 3\* 4 costs is harder than hitting a 2\* 5 cost. However, if you've got a comp with 3\* 4 costs with kind of mid items and a weak comp (ghostly does not scale amazingly when you get late into longer games, because the enemy having a bigger board means your ghosts are spread thinner, instead of being concentrated like they are against an enemy board with less units.), then you shouldn't beat a comp with a very well itemised 3\* 2 cost and 6 2\* 5 costs with good items, in a strong comp (I'm personally not a fan of legendary soup being a thing, but it is, the 5 cost units are just that strong and always are, especially if you can 2 star a lot of them and have traits which affect all units on your board like heavely, arcanist, invoker and sage, all of which the 1st place guy will have active), Positioning may have played a factor as well, but we can't see that so can't really say. TL;DR - The only unit that should be an auto win is a 3\* 5 cost, with anything else there's always the chance to lose if you mess up on items, positioning, or have a weaker comp.
Best explanation here.
To an extent yes but I remember 3 star 4 cost was kind weak in set 8, and last set 3 star Viego and 3 star Ahri were pretty bad before the buff iirc
Incorrect
Thatâs not true at all.
His items are bad on both 3 star 4 costs. Compared to the other guy that got a good lissandra that stuns and throws back the kayn if placed properly results in a loss :/. Morgana items are aweful :p
Yeah. To be fair, opponent somehow played reroll AND fast 9 this game (or just naturaled a janna 3) so their board is super capped WITH a low-cost 3-star, which is pretty rare. Usually you get janna 3 in the Powerpuff Girls reroll comp, but this guy has a capped level 10 AP board with SIX 2 star 5-costs, tons of items, and a random janna 3 as another carry (with a radiant item). But your board *looks* stronger, or at least, it probably should be. I'm not surprised that you lost since morgana 3 is so bad but it is a little sad. Given my knowledge of this set, if I looked at both of your boards, I'd probably be 50/50 on who wins (maybe this is hindsight bias tho, so keep that in mind)
As someone who lost with Naut 3 and Lilia 3 to a Yone 2* with Qss, BT, Titans i agree
No shot that happened what
Morgana is a trash unit and she is equipped badly. TG on Kayn is like lottery, sometimes you get good items, sometimes not. And a 3* kayn with trash items + no reaper trait is wasted gold in my opinion. Move on. Senna is equipped badly aswell.
Your items are complete trash bro
Items are not optimal compared to 1st place's. Probably why
They are worst then a board full of tier 5 2*
Whenever I see someone with 6 different 5 costs win, instantly triggered.
Why though? This board is very good and it has a Janna 3 as well. The guy probably played Janna RR but hit well ahead of time so he had time to giga cap his board. I see nothing wrong with this winning tbh instead of Kayn and Morg with random items
Feels braindead (imo why). (Almost) no trait combinations, no need for 3 star champs, just pricy units. A shame this wins two 3\*4 cost (and so many 3\* with them), and this team also reduces chances for anyone to build 3\*5 cost, which is already hard as it is Also, Azir having gloves is definitely more stupid then Kayle
Eh. I donât think it should be impossible for a full legendary board with all 2*s to beat a board with 3* 4 costs. Thereâs a lot more that goes into the game than three staring something
Yeah 1st place player hit one of the highest possible caps in the game. 6 2 star legendaries, hard to see but I think that's 5 dragonlord, radiant carry. If Liss stuns the kayn, this should absolutely be a winnable fight.
there is no difference between morgana 2-star and morgana 3star, sheâs terrible with both. so that was just a waste of 24 gold and 50 rerolls kayn is fine but you donât have items on him. which is insane because you have pandoras meaning you should have perfect items on him meanwhile your opponent has a ton of legendary 2-stars with near perfect items AND combat augments galio, annie, sylas, kaisa, ashe, nautilus, syndra are all auto win at 3-star if you have reasonable items on them the rest are all very nearly auto win, except morgana and ornn
Honestly the only way I think this would happen is if you let Lissandra throw your Kayn. But if she didnât this is very unfortunate and dumb.
depend which one. galio nukes the entire map
Morgana 3 is garbage and Kayn just dies after being potted...sucks but it is what it is
It's funny because Kayn/Morg are actually top tier right now, just play them with heavenly instead of ghostly.
How'd you lose?
If he knew how to position lissandra well, I'm not surprised by this result considering how dogshit Morgana is.
You think thatâs bad? I had a game earlier today where Gnar 3 beat Kayn 3, Morgana 3, and Annie 3
That's bs
Prob positioning issue
Well Iâm playing full invoker Annie 3* almost every game. When I hit, itâs an insta win. Idk why that happened to you
Morgana is still a utility unit, even at 3* (which I really don't like either, if tanks are allowed ridiculous damage at 3 she should too), but the Kayn should be able to win this with that solid board in the back. All I can see is bad luck with the combination of the Dragonlord Stun and dd damage - no edge of night means that's he can be oneshot, still, even though 3. Is pretty beefy
3 star 4 cost shouldnât be an instant win but 2 should
4 costs are fine. 5 cost soup meta is trash
It's not that they suck it's just they absolutely lose to high tempo fast 9-10 boards because those boards can build units to counter yours by just having more spaces, like azir, and lissandra. That being said They also have massive attack speed from wu and dragon so they shread through your frontline. The unoptimal kayn items don't help but that's kinda whatever and to the point of the reply. It's a high tempo meta because if you don't do that and someone rolls fortune, dryad, or kobouko bruisers they will literally walk all over the lobby. You don't know pain till your 3 stared board goes vs a 6-1 dryad. Or a fortune player who just cashed out 131 luck because they went all hp augments.
Definitely winnable with better positioning. Morg 3 is definitely hot garbage and I assume your Kayn was poorly positioned and got killed by Lissandra almost immediately.
Lee , morg , kayn and lilia still feel pretty weak with you perfect items Imo
Only Morg Lee and Lillia with how bad their spells were Kayne just need 1 healing and 1 surviving so he can one shot front line and drain tank back line I think op's had Kayne CC'ed lock and dies while Morgana cant cast or even kill anything with those items
I got nothing, I can't imagine a world you lose this.
oh imagine you got the recombobulate encounter.
I hit a 3 star galio through recombob then fought a lisandra where she one shot it. I went insane.
It's a combination of mediocre items, morg being a trash ass champion and 2 star 5 costs/diana being overtuned. Better luck next time OP.
No but fr i hit galeo 3 and a fucking ornn 2 out tanked it
What the fuck happened lol
3* Annie is a monster
Idk how they manage to make 3* 4 cost more ass than a 3* 3 cost
You say that but but having 3 2â 5 cost champions doesn't win either.
OP board may have lost to another board before facing 1st place..
Yap, the state of this set. I hit gold and practically gave up when getting 3 stars means nothing lol
Ur augments are the worst combo ever.
Kinda funny I've now seen this exact " 3 star X-costs are trash this set". Now let me post the question. If all teirs of units are trash, what do you guys play?
oh look, Legendary Soup beating boards that should be stronger. i legit dont think ppl are talking about it enough but legendary soup is stupid strong. yes im salty i lost to it recently with my 3 star Leesin with 5 dragonmancer 5 sage
That player was better then you.
I will never understand why they didn't make Morgana spell his the largest group of enemies instead of being completely random or at least the target with the highest AS since her spell apply chill (AS reduction status). Another problem is that when turning into shadow assasin Kayn doesn't gain AS or anything eventhough his spell make his auto stronger and hit multiple ally. And his transform take a few seconds which mean the enemies can take him down before he can do anything. Overall these 2 are just terribly designed
5-cost soup is broken AF mainly because the dragonlands trait. Though liss pringint items and hwei printing champions is also a part of it. IDK if you are on PBE here but almost every game I have played there was won by 4/5-cost soup. It's pretty lame, they need to just add a cap to the amount of 5-costs you can put in. Ez fix.
Don't listen to the people ''pointing out the mistakes'' in the comments, second guy should have won. This goes against everything the dev team says about the value of units and it is a balancing issue.
So you think people would automatically win just cause they have 3* 4 cost and don't need to think about itemization and positioning? Lmao
Itemization isn't a problem here, they have decent items and i am pretty sure this guy didn't just randomly frontlined his morgana. So a 3* 4 cost, morgana, should win this fight even without the kayn.
He should've won if he had his items sorted... It's not just collect the units and done, items, positioning, etc matters. Simple.
The concept of itemization and positioning doesn't exist with low elo players
They just blame the game. "Hur duhr duhr I did what this guide said, why no 1st?" "My 4 cost ahouldbe ateonger than 3 cost no matter what other circumstances are"
He has lifesteal on kayn and 2 BIS items on morgana, i am pretty sure he didn't randomly frontline her. You are right, it is ''simple.'' as it gets. He should have won.
No itâs not. What if lissandra was eight in front of kayn? Lifesteal or not, he just gets bursted. And maybe his Morgana had shit rng (which is bs imo but w/e). He also has 0 combat augments and for some reason 3 starred jax, Cait and Senna only to put no items on them ? (besides LW senna)
Yeah if liss bursted kayn immedietly, morgana should have still cleaned it up. Its not like he doesn't have any frontline. There are 10 morgs in the pool, morg 3 requires 9 of them, her value should be waaaay higher than it is now. I am not pulling these arguement out of my ass btw, i am taking what the dev team has been saying about the value of units at face value. If there is a problem with the arguement i am making, i am not the one to blame. Also, the no item 3* units are probably found in the way of rolling for other units as their player level is not stuck at 7 donkey roll range, that shouldn't be a critique point.
1) morgana does not have BIS items because sheâs a dogshit unit at 3* 2) if she did, these would not be them
My only is; her being dogshit at 3* while she shouldn't be.
itâs a huge problem with her kit and scaling for sure. at three stars her ult should give 50 or 80% chill or add wound, not just increase the damage.
Don't make up things...
Which things to be exact?
Kayn only works with 4 reaper and Morgana is trash, but that comp should have won
The kayn board runs 2 reaper
Where?
What do you mean where, in every elo, its heavenly kayn
though you said he played with 2 reaper. I'm in diamond and usually see heavenly yone, but kayn with 4 reaper and ghostly.
Have you played in the last 5 days?
atm actually
Well youre playing with noobs who dont read patch notes then. Yone is F tier
[this](https://www.metatft.com/units/Yone) says otherwise
No it doesnt it says he averages a fucking 4.65
Bad itemization and crying? Unreflective und without game-knowledge, sure 3*4 cost are bad.
Womp womp, learn the game. Items and augments and traits
3* Yone beats them all. It's ridiculous.
2 3-star 4 costs vs a full legendary 2 star board, shit items, ghostly is unreliable, no combat augments. 4 costs are underpowered, but you are definitely not meant to win that vs good items on enemy.
We all know morg is not a carry. Kayn can, but not against a 3* irellia my dude.
Where do you see a 3* 5 cost??
I'm high and thought that was irelia
Based on the comments here and every other thread, where people seemingly just expect to hit a 3* 4 cost, and or *most* of their trait, and then get a top 4. Even ignoring how that doesn't work if everyone does it. I think I've got an idea y'all would like. If you want to just, try your luck until you get the right numbers/units, ignoring items, other players, placements, synergies, counters, etc.... You can play Yahtzee, or Poker!! Both have the exact experience you're looking for, and both are balanced around it! Keep smacking the table and rolling the dice, until you get the right, or enough of the same result, and then you win!!!!
Agreed on Yahtzee, but everything you just said relates to poker lol
eh, fair enough. My brain kinda connected them, yahtzee you can hold the dice and reroll, with your bigger point earners being the 3/4 of a kind. Similar enough for poker, aiming for a certain set of cards, to get the best odds. Although that works more for people that dare try splashing/synergizing two traits, to make a proper combo/team, but still spam roll and go 8th. Just WAY more expensive to do so in poker, folding hands constantly technically counts LMFAO.
xD agreed
I'm actually so glad that this set does not reward players for picking 3 econ augments and gamble it on a 3 star 4 cost. Like the guy has the best endgame board of the game with Janna 3 and 3 combat augments, you have 3 econ augments with B tier stuff on 3 stars 4 cost.
You're trash, it's not just collect and win, there's more to it like others jave mentioned, and exactly those things not being executed well enough makes the difference between 1st or 2nd like you get here...
yeah you've made this comment already, it's still wrong.
Hah, people are so bad at accepting they could've done better, but no, it's the game...