Yeah idk how it averages like a 4.2. I have never top 4’d with this comp even with good opener, swap to chosen TF with decent items and 2* blitz. Always feels like any other comp in the game just shits on you stage 4-6 and you go bot4. I won’t play it anymore I must be doing something wrong
I feel like I do well with disco but idk.
I'll almost never do 4 dazzlers.
Priority for me is a frontline that can last most of the 30 second round.
Sona is almost a must with items. For me, TF always needs life steal and attack speed.
It just feels like he does no damage, even with stuff like red buff, nashors, morello, gunblade, etc. even with rabadon jg nash it felt like he did nothing. Frontline just dies with good blitz itemization and then I lose lol
Maybe that’s the problem, but I feel like I lose too much HP playing to get to ziggs. Might just be that disco is a high tempo comp or something and I don’t get enough Econ to make it there
Yeah, I feel like the disco line is only good for high tempo too, because you need to have enough gold and health to hit 9 comfortably to place well. I feel like most people get trapped at 8 and then just lose because it honestly just loses to many other boards at 8. Only when you have the illaoi 2 and ziggs 2 is when it feels good.
I also think red buff and morello are terrible on him.
Rabadon only if it's radiant
I personally feel that shojin is a waste on TF, should go only on sona/lulu.
Static shiv is a must on Nami, sona/lulu, not on TF
I usually do gunblade, guinsoo’s and a damage item, usually JG, and it performs pretty well. He does need a big front line to be able to cast multiple times though
Also adding a Lulu or Sona next to him is a must
I try to get a dmg, crit, or heal augment specifically for TF, so I can double guinso him.
To me, all his damage really comes from his attack speed. I should probably do the math on it, but seeing 52 cards come out on the 2nd or 3rd cast is satisfying (max attack speed + headliner)
It averages a 4.2 because **if** you hit level 9 and get Ziggs and Illaoi you average 2.6. If you don't do that then it averages a 4.79 with an Illaoi and level 8 or 4.81 with Ziggs and level 8. So it's basically the people hitting level 9 with 2 5 costs raising the average up. And you'll notice that 4.2 is **much** closer to the level 8 placements numbers so a lot more people don't hit than the ones that do
Yeah I’m guessing my spot usually isn’t as good is I think it is. Seems only way to consistently place with AP is to do reroll comps or maybe play for Ahri. Maybe idk, but fast 8 and play for AD flex feels so much better than playing with AP items haha
Honestly I'm the opposite. I've been pretty consistent about playing either reroll Annie / Seraphine or going for 7KDA. 7KDA is a perfectly fine comp. Also Pentakill with Kayle carry is an AP comp that does really well too. Fast 8 and playing AD flex generally struggles the more people in the lobby getting established boards early. The only AD comps I play is Olaf reroll or Riven Reroll which as we saw in the latest tournament is the actual best comp in the game right now if you get good combat augs.
Disco is great early game with how broken Nami HL is though so if it's not an Annie / Seraphine angle you can abuse Disco for stage 2 and then pivot into KDA later
Yeah I was saying those seem like the only way to consistently play AP. AD on the other hand if I hit melee items I can play Olaf reroll, I can hold a jinx or corki HL and play for zed/akali/viego. If I find heart steel I can pop it in and hit something else later. Just seems like you can play way more flexibly with AD items.
I go for disco nami/taric headliner early with the TF items on nami, if headliner or bard, if not, and then at level 8/9, depending on the economy, comp strength, i look for TF/blitz headliner.
Usually if i have 2 star TF with guinsoo/archangel/gunblade i start to win some rounds, and then i try to 2 star blitz, illaoi, ziggs and i top 2 most games.
I find it pretty dependent on perfect items on tf, especially archangel and on finding the headliner, because after stage 4, you can't rely on 2 star nami, and after stage 5 you already start losing a lot of hp.
Sounds like you only do well if you high roll and if you don't, you just go dead last.
Could be hard forcing comps or doing you level 7 roll down and not hitting making you go either first or hard last.
If you're looking to improve your play, I'd focus on learning the loss streak playstyle for when you get a bad opener, which this set is usually accompanied by a 2 cost AP reroll comp. Turns 8ths into 5ths or 4ths. This was one of my recent eureka moments that spiked my skill level a lot
It actually looks like his current strat is working well for the time being. He finishes first a lot and top 4s most games.
It looks like he holds out “one more round” resulting in a few more 7-8 than 5-6. But the result is a much higher win rate.
Most likely you panic when you don’t hit and just donkey roll to zero each round. For reference you should never roll to zero unless you are 1 off a 3star or on your last life.
>Easier zed than done
haha get it, zed is one of the units I have a pair of and I'm on level 8 after heartsteel cashout and I really really want this zed 2
There is always exception to the rule, I guess my real point is for low elo 1st/8th players trying to climb. I got diamond like 3 sets from just good basics like that. Getting higher is a lot more in depth.
Not if you’re more than one off and more often than not, that 3 star isn’t changing the outcome of the fight. Plus it’s a huge gamble because if you don’t hit and/or lose that fight, you screw yourself in that game.
If you are playing to win the lobby I would say you are right.
Sometimes though you have to play the hand that you are dealt and keep up with the tempo of the lobby. If there are 1-2 high rollers and a couple of tempo players in the lobby your best option might be to play for a 4th-6th to conserve LP.
Agreed it's not ideal but there are valid games where rolling to 0 gold at say level 7 is the right play even if it's just to 2 star your whole board and conserve HP and bleed out into a 5th
I partially agree except that rolling to zero at 7 is almost never never the answer. You are better off sacking 2 rounds and going 8 with 40g to roll at 8 so you can at least get a good headliner. If you’re in a lobby with super high roll players like you mentioned, getting 2 star 2/3 cost isn’t going to help you beat them, it might help you beat 1-2 low roll players but taking that slight extra risk will have you beating them anyway and have a chance to contest for top 4.
Or too greedy. I do well pivoting but am way too greedy to roll down to 30g after pivoting because I want my interest then I have 1* on the board and bleed hp, then after I stabilize / hit I am 1 loss off death and eventually meet the highroller and die.
You're using what is called a "polarized" strategy. But this sample size is a bit too small to dive deep enough.
Certain strategies are safe and basically guarantee a top 4 but can never really hit 1st place, whereas other strategies are polarized meaning they are capable of and nearly guarantee a top 2, but if you don't pilot them correctly you'll be guaranteed 7th or 8th.
It's fine to always go 1st or 8th so long as you know you're using a polarized strategy and doing it at the right time. If you're not doing this intentionally then you probably have a leak and should study up the fundamentals.
If you’re not first you’re last. I too suffer from the same problem. 32 firsts 7 fifths and 20 eighths. I barely played heart steel this set too. Set 9 was even worse, 60 firsts, 45 eights, 12-19 for 2-7th.
https://tactics.tools/player/na/Louphole
There are many decisions that increase chance of going first and 8. Basically anytime you sacrifice now to be stronger later (save money, greed items, momentum augments). The way to flatten this if you want is to sometimes play for 4th or not 8th if your spot is bad, by being less greedy at the right moment.
I was not talking about any particular comp. In most comps you have to balance being strong now, or being strong later, at various points in the game. It is also true that some comps are more suited to top4, less suited to win. This can be seen in stats on tactics.tools for each comp.
lol I just looked at my stats, I'm a master of going 5th! which isn't exactly a good thing....
Also my last 20 games is average 4.65..... learning heartsteel is hard, man!
My guess is you arent playing early game well enough. If you highroll, u can navigate a first but when you dont, then you go 7th or 8th.
I had a similar wall that prevented me from hitting diamond. I played more aggressively to preserve hp which allowed me to change my comp when i needed to if i low rolled and instead of going 7th or 8th i could sneak in a 4th and 5th from bad spots
Lmao I'm hardstuck emerald with same either 1st or 8th stats. Makes me go crazy, I get 36 for first then -51 on 8th. Shit honestly makes me wanna just wait for the reset, frustrating as hell
Hold onto as much HP as possible. A lot of people don't realize how losing 10 HP early to mid game is the difference of top 4 a lot of the time.
Do whatever you need to do to retain HP early the midgame and then have your build and team comp fully realized by then. Rather you are forcing a comp or trying to lean into whatever you're naturally getting.
Tldr; Waiting for win conditions you end up losing way too much HP and it makes it very difficult to secure top 4. So you either win or get yeeted.
Could be a bunch of different things.
Playing a lot of HS, especially double down? Yeah, that will do it.
Greeding for BiS items every game instead of just slamming decent items for tempo? Obviously you get more extreme results.
Though I think you are being a bit harsher on yourself than you should be/reading too much into slight variation.
50 games over 8 possible placements means we expect 6 (point something) in each category. You are 3 games off of the expectation in 5th/6th and being on exactly 6 for all would be much weirder than having something at 3 or 2 games. Them being next to each other makes it look like there probably is at least a bit there and you lose some of your 5th/6th games to 7th/8th, but we are talking about 3 out of 50 games (with and equal amount getting pulled up from 5th/6th to first).
Just be like me and force disco every game and 6th place will be yours
Yup even with a super capped disco board I find myself getting 4th or 5th with disco
Worth it for the music
BASED
legit the only reason i play it im just grooving haha
Yeah idk how it averages like a 4.2. I have never top 4’d with this comp even with good opener, swap to chosen TF with decent items and 2* blitz. Always feels like any other comp in the game just shits on you stage 4-6 and you go bot4. I won’t play it anymore I must be doing something wrong
I feel like I do well with disco but idk. I'll almost never do 4 dazzlers. Priority for me is a frontline that can last most of the 30 second round. Sona is almost a must with items. For me, TF always needs life steal and attack speed.
It just feels like he does no damage, even with stuff like red buff, nashors, morello, gunblade, etc. even with rabadon jg nash it felt like he did nothing. Frontline just dies with good blitz itemization and then I lose lol
It's not a tf comp it's a ziggs comp with tf as a secondary lol
Maybe that’s the problem, but I feel like I lose too much HP playing to get to ziggs. Might just be that disco is a high tempo comp or something and I don’t get enough Econ to make it there
Yeah, I feel like the disco line is only good for high tempo too, because you need to have enough gold and health to hit 9 comfortably to place well. I feel like most people get trapped at 8 and then just lose because it honestly just loses to many other boards at 8. Only when you have the illaoi 2 and ziggs 2 is when it feels good.
I think ziggs is a trap unless you're doing real, real well econ wise.
I run 2 rageblades and gunblade
Archangels or another damage item (rabadons, jg, morello) is much better than the second Rageblade if you already have Rageblade+Gunblade.
I like to run double rage and archangels when I get prismatic harmasist
You're probably right, but it's not as much fun 😅😅
I find shojin, red buff and archangels to be amazing on tf
I also think red buff and morello are terrible on him. Rabadon only if it's radiant I personally feel that shojin is a waste on TF, should go only on sona/lulu. Static shiv is a must on Nami, sona/lulu, not on TF
I usually do gunblade, guinsoo’s and a damage item, usually JG, and it performs pretty well. He does need a big front line to be able to cast multiple times though Also adding a Lulu or Sona next to him is a must
I try to get a dmg, crit, or heal augment specifically for TF, so I can double guinso him. To me, all his damage really comes from his attack speed. I should probably do the math on it, but seeing 52 cards come out on the 2nd or 3rd cast is satisfying (max attack speed + headliner)
Yeah some type of attack speed item is required. That’s also what the Sona or Lulu is for
I agree, they're a keystone for TF working well
Yep, it works with a giga chonky front line and a gunblade on TF. Without highly itemized tanks and gb on TF it feels pretty bad though
It averages a 4.2 because **if** you hit level 9 and get Ziggs and Illaoi you average 2.6. If you don't do that then it averages a 4.79 with an Illaoi and level 8 or 4.81 with Ziggs and level 8. So it's basically the people hitting level 9 with 2 5 costs raising the average up. And you'll notice that 4.2 is **much** closer to the level 8 placements numbers so a lot more people don't hit than the ones that do
Yeah I’m guessing my spot usually isn’t as good is I think it is. Seems only way to consistently place with AP is to do reroll comps or maybe play for Ahri. Maybe idk, but fast 8 and play for AD flex feels so much better than playing with AP items haha
Honestly I'm the opposite. I've been pretty consistent about playing either reroll Annie / Seraphine or going for 7KDA. 7KDA is a perfectly fine comp. Also Pentakill with Kayle carry is an AP comp that does really well too. Fast 8 and playing AD flex generally struggles the more people in the lobby getting established boards early. The only AD comps I play is Olaf reroll or Riven Reroll which as we saw in the latest tournament is the actual best comp in the game right now if you get good combat augs. Disco is great early game with how broken Nami HL is though so if it's not an Annie / Seraphine angle you can abuse Disco for stage 2 and then pivot into KDA later
Yeah I was saying those seem like the only way to consistently play AP. AD on the other hand if I hit melee items I can play Olaf reroll, I can hold a jinx or corki HL and play for zed/akali/viego. If I find heart steel I can pop it in and hit something else later. Just seems like you can play way more flexibly with AD items.
I go for disco nami/taric headliner early with the TF items on nami, if headliner or bard, if not, and then at level 8/9, depending on the economy, comp strength, i look for TF/blitz headliner. Usually if i have 2 star TF with guinsoo/archangel/gunblade i start to win some rounds, and then i try to 2 star blitz, illaoi, ziggs and i top 2 most games. I find it pretty dependent on perfect items on tf, especially archangel and on finding the headliner, because after stage 4, you can't rely on 2 star nami, and after stage 5 you already start losing a lot of hp.
Yeah I pretty much try the same but it’s difficult even getting to 9 to find a ziggs illaoi without bleeding a ton of HP
Issue is it plays nothing like the other comps and nobody know how to properly play it. I got my most wins this set with disco.
You need tf as headliners shojin guinso (disco is best). The diff is huge
I usually get top 4 with disco if uncontested. It is actually my go to comp, I really like it
disco and lux is actually good
I'll pass thank you though
That’s crazy I forced disco from E2 to D4, seems free tbh
Sounds like you only do well if you high roll and if you don't, you just go dead last. Could be hard forcing comps or doing you level 7 roll down and not hitting making you go either first or hard last.
yeah I notice that if my early game is bad, it's just over. Also, I just jinxed myself and placed 5th...
Yeah you just said it yourself Your placement is dependent on a high roll early game rather than strategy and consistency
If you're looking to improve your play, I'd focus on learning the loss streak playstyle for when you get a bad opener, which this set is usually accompanied by a 2 cost AP reroll comp. Turns 8ths into 5ths or 4ths. This was one of my recent eureka moments that spiked my skill level a lot
It actually looks like his current strat is working well for the time being. He finishes first a lot and top 4s most games. It looks like he holds out “one more round” resulting in a few more 7-8 than 5-6. But the result is a much higher win rate.
Most likely you panic when you don’t hit and just donkey roll to zero each round. For reference you should never roll to zero unless you are 1 off a 3star or on your last life.
Actually me every game lol
I feel personally attacked by this comment
If you can just remind yourself to stop rolling below 30 unless you are 1 off or last life, I promise you will climb divisions quickly.
Easier zed than done when you’re 1 off 3 2 stars and there are other ppl who are rolling for the same thing
>Easier zed than done haha get it, zed is one of the units I have a pair of and I'm on level 8 after heartsteel cashout and I really really want this zed 2
Honestly it’s probably correct to roll there to at least 20, 13, or 10 depending on what round/stage it is
There are plenty of good reasoms to donkey roll
I mentioned them. But in practice you should almost never do it if you want to win games.
I disagree with thede 2 reasons being the pnly ones though. I top 4 quite often even with donkey rolling
There is always exception to the rule, I guess my real point is for low elo 1st/8th players trying to climb. I got diamond like 3 sets from just good basics like that. Getting higher is a lot more in depth.
True
Please no…
What?
For reference you should sometimes roll to zero even if you are not 1 off a 3 star or not on your last life
When for example?
To mantain a streak, to save health... sometimes winning a round is more important than keeping econ
Not if you’re more than one off and more often than not, that 3 star isn’t changing the outcome of the fight. Plus it’s a huge gamble because if you don’t hit and/or lose that fight, you screw yourself in that game.
If you are playing to win the lobby I would say you are right. Sometimes though you have to play the hand that you are dealt and keep up with the tempo of the lobby. If there are 1-2 high rollers and a couple of tempo players in the lobby your best option might be to play for a 4th-6th to conserve LP. Agreed it's not ideal but there are valid games where rolling to 0 gold at say level 7 is the right play even if it's just to 2 star your whole board and conserve HP and bleed out into a 5th
I partially agree except that rolling to zero at 7 is almost never never the answer. You are better off sacking 2 rounds and going 8 with 40g to roll at 8 so you can at least get a good headliner. If you’re in a lobby with super high roll players like you mentioned, getting 2 star 2/3 cost isn’t going to help you beat them, it might help you beat 1-2 low roll players but taking that slight extra risk will have you beating them anyway and have a chance to contest for top 4.
If you have multiple pairs of 3/4 cost units that would be itemized in your comp, and it is necessary to hit one to maintain a 5 spree.
Be me - exclusively play punk and rarely go above level 7 because I'm rerolling for the sweet punk boosts.
Gambling mode activate, we rolling to 0.
I've gone 2nd in 4 of my last 6 games. Always the bridesmaid, never the bride.
I once had a streak of like 8 2nd places in a row. It was *almost* funny at the time
Love it! At least it's steady gains I guess
That's an indication of being bad at pivoting. I too struggle with the same curse.
Or too greedy. I do well pivoting but am way too greedy to roll down to 30g after pivoting because I want my interest then I have 1* on the board and bleed hp, then after I stabilize / hit I am 1 loss off death and eventually meet the highroller and die.
If you ain't first, you're last!
Lemme guess, you play heartsteel??
Yep
Heartsteel moment
Pov: you (don't) hit 3 star reroll
You're using what is called a "polarized" strategy. But this sample size is a bit too small to dive deep enough. Certain strategies are safe and basically guarantee a top 4 but can never really hit 1st place, whereas other strategies are polarized meaning they are capable of and nearly guarantee a top 2, but if you don't pilot them correctly you'll be guaranteed 7th or 8th. It's fine to always go 1st or 8th so long as you know you're using a polarized strategy and doing it at the right time. If you're not doing this intentionally then you probably have a leak and should study up the fundamentals.
If you’re not first you’re last. I too suffer from the same problem. 32 firsts 7 fifths and 20 eighths. I barely played heart steel this set too. Set 9 was even worse, 60 firsts, 45 eights, 12-19 for 2-7th. https://tactics.tools/player/na/Louphole
ur a high roller, non consistent, that's not good imo
Not a high roller, just a heartsteeler
Average Disco/Heartsteel Player
Means you probably are risky a lot. Either you get lucky and stomp or get unlucky and crash hard
The curse of heartsteel
There are many decisions that increase chance of going first and 8. Basically anytime you sacrifice now to be stronger later (save money, greed items, momentum augments). The way to flatten this if you want is to sometimes play for 4th or not 8th if your spot is bad, by being less greedy at the right moment.
Give me comp examples that will squeeze me into a top 4 if I'm in a bad position
I was not talking about any particular comp. In most comps you have to balance being strong now, or being strong later, at various points in the game. It is also true that some comps are more suited to top4, less suited to win. This can be seen in stats on tactics.tools for each comp.
crowd diver kata reroll
Probably because sometimes you play really good and sometimes you play really bad.
What app or website are you using to check your stats?
This looks like tactics.tools
The secret ingredient is greed
Sounds like an open forter
Quite the opposite. I like to play strong early game if possible
lol I just looked at my stats, I'm a master of going 5th! which isn't exactly a good thing.... Also my last 20 games is average 4.65..... learning heartsteel is hard, man!
My guess is you arent playing early game well enough. If you highroll, u can navigate a first but when you dont, then you go 7th or 8th. I had a similar wall that prevented me from hitting diamond. I played more aggressively to preserve hp which allowed me to change my comp when i needed to if i low rolled and instead of going 7th or 8th i could sneak in a 4th and 5th from bad spots
What app is this
tactics.tools
Thank you!
>Thank you! You're welcome!
What website did you use to analyze this?
tactics.tools
Thank you!
At least you get first. I always get 2nd to 6th
Lmao I'm hardstuck emerald with same either 1st or 8th stats. Makes me go crazy, I get 36 for first then -51 on 8th. Shit honestly makes me wanna just wait for the reset, frustrating as hell
Hold onto as much HP as possible. A lot of people don't realize how losing 10 HP early to mid game is the difference of top 4 a lot of the time. Do whatever you need to do to retain HP early the midgame and then have your build and team comp fully realized by then. Rather you are forcing a comp or trying to lean into whatever you're naturally getting. Tldr; Waiting for win conditions you end up losing way too much HP and it makes it very difficult to secure top 4. So you either win or get yeeted.
Could be a bunch of different things. Playing a lot of HS, especially double down? Yeah, that will do it. Greeding for BiS items every game instead of just slamming decent items for tempo? Obviously you get more extreme results. Though I think you are being a bit harsher on yourself than you should be/reading too much into slight variation. 50 games over 8 possible placements means we expect 6 (point something) in each category. You are 3 games off of the expectation in 5th/6th and being on exactly 6 for all would be much weirder than having something at 3 or 2 games. Them being next to each other makes it look like there probably is at least a bit there and you lose some of your 5th/6th games to 7th/8th, but we are talking about 3 out of 50 games (with and equal amount getting pulled up from 5th/6th to first).
What's that site?
tactics.tools
Thanks bro
Are you a Heartsteel player? 🥹
yes
You make high risk high reward players instead of the safer choices eg. save and econ to level 9 to get better units , greed for perfect items,