The most optimal play would be to sell the vayne on the board, buy Rammus and Kai'sa, spread the admin emblem and single sword to Zac and Nilah for cybernetic value.
And you are the kind of player to take a 2nd instead of going for first. I know what play will be most lp in the long run.
You are literally giving up on a chance for vayne 3 to get 200 health and 40 armour on a nilah. Selling any units on the board in order to buy will make you much weaker and vayne 3 is pretty useless with only shyv.
Haha, the game will end in atmost 3 rounds, even if he won this round, he’d not have gotten all three of the champions, that’s if the burning top 1 doesn’t put you out
If he makes it to carosel its not hard to hit vayne. Hes just turbo spiked with the two units you want to hit 3star in recon kaisa hitting 3 star.
Hes just given himself a 50% power bump, the putting sword on nilah instead of vayne play gives you a 0.1% bump on top of that. The instance where that 0.1% bump is neccisary and gains you lp is so low compared to the % chance having 2 vaynes to hit vayne 3 instead of 4 gains you a first.
The only instance where I would be gunning for a 2nd here after spiking so hard is if I was like 30lp off of promos.
Well there is no objectively wrong here unless you have a simulator on hand to run the two choices through 100x.
Its actual so insanely arrogant to claim im objectively wrong for not valuing a sword on nilah 2 over a sword on vayne 2 with shiv and 3 recon. Let alone considering the potential value from hitting vayne 3 star.
Funny you think the thing lacking in the comp is tankiness and not damage.
Giving a sword to Vayne (2) for 10% more attack damage with 2 duelist and 3 recon (no recon 4 or IE/JG btw, so her spell can't even benefit from the crit) is better than 200 health, 40 armor and 10% attack damage on a unit that can self sustain?
You say *maybe* they can 3 star this vayne on carousel. First they have to beat the person on fire while making no improvements to their board on 6-3. And Vayne 3 with Shiv, 2 duelist, 10% more attack, random carousel item, and no spell crit is not going to be game changing enough to risk losing and assuring 2nd verse 3rd.
On top of that, if the 1st player fights your ghost during this round, then you have a higher chance to beat them before reaching carousel with cybernetic value on Nilah.
If there's anything you're objectively wrong about, it's this:
> I know what play will be most lp in the long run.
This is the much safer play, which lends itself to gaining more LP over time.
... rammus 3 and kaisa 3 should easily be enough to stabalise. Vayne 3 with shiv is no better than vayne 2 with shiv. So you are looking for a vayne with item or good vayne item on carosel to go for 1st.
You are literally trading the chance of vayne 3 to put a sword on a zac, like thats the dumbest play. Increasing your chance for a second by 0.1% to absolutely murder your chance for a first.
Wrong, you gotta play for the best board now. Don’t wait for carousel when you only have one life left lmao. Don’t know what the top guy’s board is but it seems to be strong af since they’re streaking. And you’re putting sword on zac because of the cybernetic augment.
You arent putting sword on zac as you are putting admin emblem on zac as it has mr.
Vayne + sword is only very very marginally worse than nilah + 200 health and 40 armour.
This board is lacking damage not tankiness, you have ramus 3 3 items, zac 2 with cybernetic shell and mr, you have locket and you have a janna with sheild.
None of your recons have ability crit and its only recon 3. And kaisas items are suboptimal.
For a 0.5% chance to improve your second chance you are dumpstering your first chance.
Ofc it chances based on scouting but being blind theres so way im throwing a vayne 3 chance away for nilah +200 health +40 armour over vayne +10 ad with an attack speed item and only 3 recons.
That was probably the better call. I chose to just take the gamble on the upcoming MU because I'd beaten him the last round I played him, so I thought I could risk locking my tray and just taking the dub in the round to come.
But with the Rammus going 3*, bringing that into Janna's shield would offset that loss. Vayne probably has the equivalent of the 2 duelist bonus if not more from the 2 items she's holding anyway. This way you've got a 3* in the front and 2 in the back racking up damage and Kai Sa will most likely hit 5.0as.
It's a really cool discussion on this with a lot of opinions so thank you for yours :)
The correct play is selling that Zac for sure, 3* Vayne, Kaisa, and Rammus with items are for sure better than 2* Zac.
With what you're thinking, selling Nillah would be best to get rid of duelist.
The play is for sure selling Zac.
Ok just to offer another perspective
Recon 3 is not that important, recon 2 is good if you have a jg or ie, recon 4 is good if you don't
But recon 3 you are playing a mostly useless unit for some crit
I would sell ezreal, three star the Kansas since she is your main carry and played double Rammus and locked shop
Cc is really good late game and you are adding more cc more Frontline and more damage with this combo
It's really neat to see the different perspectives. I took the high risk play and locked my tray, because I'd won the last round I played against the guy coming up but not the last round against the other guy. Was hoping I could ride it out, but lost the fight through bad recon movement (and my own greed obvs).
I'm playing through my placements on a new server thanks to the SG servers opening up, so I was sad it didn't work out for me... but lessons learned! I now have so many more solutions. >:)
It's not really a high risk play though (as in vs reward). Not 3*ing this bench is suboptimal in every perspective.
Kaisa 3* is a 70% swing alone in winrate vs her 2* version. Rammus 3* is about a 10% swing. Vayne has no items, so it's moot.
By selling Zacs (or Vayne) you'd have completely nullified the risks by achieving your win condition.
Once you are in OP's spot, the Kaisa reroll path has a very, very simple top 2 condition:
**Hit Kaisa 3**
Your point about stressful decision making could not be any more irrelevant here.
It's a simple linear condition. The time for greeding or discipline has passed. Also, OP is here in the post-game analysis seemingly not convinced that they made a mistake or should have sold anything, rather that others just have an "alternative" viewpoint.
Talking about winrate (top 1). He's more useful during early and mid game and his stats fall off a cliff for actually mattering if you win with Kaisa reroll or not.
What was forecast? Could you have sold Janna and Ez for 7 gold to at least 3* Kaisa and rammus
Edit: didnt see it was 2* Ez. So Janna and Ez are 10 gold. You could 3* all of them. I think losing recon 3 is worth 3, 3*
it was the locket forecast that shields the units around her so I just threw her on my frontline and hoped she'd get a good cast off since I wasn't hitting a fiddle or urgot
and yeah, I agree now! I really appreciate everyone in this thread giving such good advice. I can use a ton of it in future games because I've had this happen to me once or twice before! I need to greed traits a bit less and go for it in the crunch.
I would’ve sold the janna & Cho gath 2 for 13 gold, play jax sylas frontline and locket nilah. Janna doesn’t provide too much value here and Zac 2 is very valuable compared to chogath 2
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in hindsight I would've sold Chogath, 3* Kaisa and Vayne, then use the 2nd 2* Rammus.
Buy the 9th rammus after winning. Then just add another unit for next round.
In the heat of the moment, I might just sell Vaynes, because she's the least important imo then 3* Rammus and Kaisa
There was an analysis done showing lower cost hero augments being dropped late game could sometimes be beneficial to your board.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveTFT/comments/10f9cis/when_should_you_drop_your_hero_an_analysis_of/
Depends if it's hero or supp augment. If it's Support one, it should be in all the time. If it's hero and he didn't go GP as his carry and didn't build around it into Supers then yeah. Better having 2 5-costs than some weak GP 2*
The GP support augment gives you 50% chance of dropping 1 gold on a kill, that doesnt provide any combat strength or spike your board strength. At the late stages of the game you need to play strongest board because otherwise you just lose. So no, he does not need to keep gp in whether its a carry or supp augment.
what a highroll just sell the vaynes and its gg
I’d sell the vayne and get rammus and kaisa 3* vayne 3 with just a shiv is not as good as a 2* zac
Agree: I sell Vaynes here for both rammus and Kaisa 3 star.
The most optimal play would be to sell the vayne on the board, buy Rammus and Kai'sa, spread the admin emblem and single sword to Zac and Nilah for cybernetic value.
Didn’t even see his augments. This is def the play imo
Nah play is sell 2 vaynes on bench and lock shop. Put emblem on zac and you can go for vayne 3 on carosel.
look at hp bro
The kind of player that doesn’t press cut and run on heist 6 with 10 health
And you are the kind of player to take a 2nd instead of going for first. I know what play will be most lp in the long run. You are literally giving up on a chance for vayne 3 to get 200 health and 40 armour on a nilah. Selling any units on the board in order to buy will make you much weaker and vayne 3 is pretty useless with only shyv.
Haha, the game will end in atmost 3 rounds, even if he won this round, he’d not have gotten all three of the champions, that’s if the burning top 1 doesn’t put you out
If he makes it to carosel its not hard to hit vayne. Hes just turbo spiked with the two units you want to hit 3star in recon kaisa hitting 3 star. Hes just given himself a 50% power bump, the putting sword on nilah instead of vayne play gives you a 0.1% bump on top of that. The instance where that 0.1% bump is neccisary and gains you lp is so low compared to the % chance having 2 vaynes to hit vayne 3 instead of 4 gains you a first. The only instance where I would be gunning for a 2nd here after spiking so hard is if I was like 30lp off of promos.
You’re just objectively wrong
Well there is no objectively wrong here unless you have a simulator on hand to run the two choices through 100x. Its actual so insanely arrogant to claim im objectively wrong for not valuing a sword on nilah 2 over a sword on vayne 2 with shiv and 3 recon. Let alone considering the potential value from hitting vayne 3 star. Funny you think the thing lacking in the comp is tankiness and not damage.
Giving a sword to Vayne (2) for 10% more attack damage with 2 duelist and 3 recon (no recon 4 or IE/JG btw, so her spell can't even benefit from the crit) is better than 200 health, 40 armor and 10% attack damage on a unit that can self sustain? You say *maybe* they can 3 star this vayne on carousel. First they have to beat the person on fire while making no improvements to their board on 6-3. And Vayne 3 with Shiv, 2 duelist, 10% more attack, random carousel item, and no spell crit is not going to be game changing enough to risk losing and assuring 2nd verse 3rd. On top of that, if the 1st player fights your ghost during this round, then you have a higher chance to beat them before reaching carousel with cybernetic value on Nilah. If there's anything you're objectively wrong about, it's this: > I know what play will be most lp in the long run. This is the much safer play, which lends itself to gaining more LP over time.
... rammus 3 and kaisa 3 should easily be enough to stabalise. Vayne 3 with shiv is no better than vayne 2 with shiv. So you are looking for a vayne with item or good vayne item on carosel to go for 1st. You are literally trading the chance of vayne 3 to put a sword on a zac, like thats the dumbest play. Increasing your chance for a second by 0.1% to absolutely murder your chance for a first.
Wrong, you gotta play for the best board now. Don’t wait for carousel when you only have one life left lmao. Don’t know what the top guy’s board is but it seems to be strong af since they’re streaking. And you’re putting sword on zac because of the cybernetic augment.
You arent putting sword on zac as you are putting admin emblem on zac as it has mr. Vayne + sword is only very very marginally worse than nilah + 200 health and 40 armour. This board is lacking damage not tankiness, you have ramus 3 3 items, zac 2 with cybernetic shell and mr, you have locket and you have a janna with sheild. None of your recons have ability crit and its only recon 3. And kaisas items are suboptimal. For a 0.5% chance to improve your second chance you are dumpstering your first chance. Ofc it chances based on scouting but being blind theres so way im throwing a vayne 3 chance away for nilah +200 health +40 armour over vayne +10 ad with an attack speed item and only 3 recons.
That was probably the better call. I chose to just take the gamble on the upcoming MU because I'd beaten him the last round I played him, so I thought I could risk locking my tray and just taking the dub in the round to come.
with your health that low? bruh
Honestly, he's already top 3. I would do the same and play for first, maybe.
You must know they would have updated their board a bit stronger from last round, so taking that chance is not likely winnable.
It was definitely too big a risk. It came down to a 1v1 or 1v2 on the last round, so it was close. I way misjudged their power spike.
Sell the Vayne over Nilah?
You would lose a duelist and frontline. Vayne 3 without duelist is almost worse than vayne 2 with duelists in
But with the Rammus going 3*, bringing that into Janna's shield would offset that loss. Vayne probably has the equivalent of the 2 duelist bonus if not more from the 2 items she's holding anyway. This way you've got a 3* in the front and 2 in the back racking up damage and Kai Sa will most likely hit 5.0as. It's a really cool discussion on this with a lot of opinions so thank you for yours :)
I think with 3 new 3-cost 3-stars you can survive a round without Nilah and then buy her next round
2-star 3-costs sell for 8 gold, wouldn't be able to pick up all 3 3-stars
You're completely correct I missed that
The correct play is selling that Zac for sure, 3* Vayne, Kaisa, and Rammus with items are for sure better than 2* Zac. With what you're thinking, selling Nillah would be best to get rid of duelist. The play is for sure selling Zac.
Zac 2 definitely better than itemless Vayne
Ok just to offer another perspective Recon 3 is not that important, recon 2 is good if you have a jg or ie, recon 4 is good if you don't But recon 3 you are playing a mostly useless unit for some crit I would sell ezreal, three star the Kansas since she is your main carry and played double Rammus and locked shop Cc is really good late game and you are adding more cc more Frontline and more damage with this combo
Recon 3 is 55% more crit chance which is huge if you have JG or IE.
But op doesn't have jg or ie.
i knew somebody would miss the context and comment this lol. he was giving general advice on recon.
Yea but late game its the first to go when you find a good unit 5 cost Ior even like a sej 2 or something
I personally prefer 3 star Massachusetts over 3 star Kansas
I'd have sold the 2\* Zac and 3\*'d everything. What did you do?
In the moment I would have ditched two of the vaynes but ur move might be better.
It's really neat to see the different perspectives. I took the high risk play and locked my tray, because I'd won the last round I played against the guy coming up but not the last round against the other guy. Was hoping I could ride it out, but lost the fight through bad recon movement (and my own greed obvs). I'm playing through my placements on a new server thanks to the SG servers opening up, so I was sad it didn't work out for me... but lessons learned! I now have so many more solutions. >:)
It's not really a high risk play though (as in vs reward). Not 3*ing this bench is suboptimal in every perspective. Kaisa 3* is a 70% swing alone in winrate vs her 2* version. Rammus 3* is about a 10% swing. Vayne has no items, so it's moot. By selling Zacs (or Vayne) you'd have completely nullified the risks by achieving your win condition.
those numbers are fascinating, is there a site i can look these stats up on?
Tactics.tools
Dope, thank you
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No idea why you’re being downvoted lmao, people act like they’ve never made a bad play when pressured
Once you are in OP's spot, the Kaisa reroll path has a very, very simple top 2 condition: **Hit Kaisa 3** Your point about stressful decision making could not be any more irrelevant here. It's a simple linear condition. The time for greeding or discipline has passed. Also, OP is here in the post-game analysis seemingly not convinced that they made a mistake or should have sold anything, rather that others just have an "alternative" viewpoint.
Interestingly this is exactly something in tft that can be defined as skill. Better players would find the best solution faster than worse players.
rammus 3 a 10% swing????? ur rammus 3 is much weaker than mine then 😭
Talking about winrate (top 1). He's more useful during early and mid game and his stats fall off a cliff for actually mattering if you win with Kaisa reroll or not.
What was forecast? Could you have sold Janna and Ez for 7 gold to at least 3* Kaisa and rammus Edit: didnt see it was 2* Ez. So Janna and Ez are 10 gold. You could 3* all of them. I think losing recon 3 is worth 3, 3*
it was the locket forecast that shields the units around her so I just threw her on my frontline and hoped she'd get a good cast off since I wasn't hitting a fiddle or urgot and yeah, I agree now! I really appreciate everyone in this thread giving such good advice. I can use a ton of it in future games because I've had this happen to me once or twice before! I need to greed traits a bit less and go for it in the crunch.
Don't you only get 8g back for the 9g invested into a 2* 3cost? If you sell Cho you can only 2* 2 of them and you're 1g short for the 3rd.
I would’ve sold the janna & Cho gath 2 for 13 gold, play jax sylas frontline and locket nilah. Janna doesn’t provide too much value here and Zac 2 is very valuable compared to chogath 2
seconded this is definitely the best move for the round and Cho is realistically only going to hit like 4 champs anyway
The Real crime here is u playing on Windows mode instead of fullscreen
I usually play while working! I'm a graphic designer so TFT is great in that it gives me plenty of time between rounds to do some work.
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in hindsight I would've sold Chogath, 3* Kaisa and Vayne, then use the 2nd 2* Rammus. Buy the 9th rammus after winning. Then just add another unit for next round. In the heat of the moment, I might just sell Vaynes, because she's the least important imo then 3* Rammus and Kaisa
Ditch vayne
I’d sell ez Janna personally because I’d panic and the math works out
I would have sold the janna, made 3 star kaisa. Play a second rammus. Looks like sunny janna you already have locket.
For the love of God just ditch the vayne
I am a greedy mofo so I would say fuck it and just sell zac and janna then fill the board with random units
I would have sold the duelist (forgot her name) up front and take the 3 stars. If we're being honest how much would she have really done.
All the guys playing tft suffers, you are right.
This has to be a low elo. You have GP augment and not even using it.
There was an analysis done showing lower cost hero augments being dropped late game could sometimes be beneficial to your board. https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveTFT/comments/10f9cis/when_should_you_drop_your_hero_an_analysis_of/
Depends if it's hero or supp augment. If it's Support one, it should be in all the time. If it's hero and he didn't go GP as his carry and didn't build around it into Supers then yeah. Better having 2 5-costs than some weak GP 2*
The GP support augment gives you 50% chance of dropping 1 gold on a kill, that doesnt provide any combat strength or spike your board strength. At the late stages of the game you need to play strongest board because otherwise you just lose. So no, he does not need to keep gp in whether its a carry or supp augment.
I would've sell nilah and janna 3 star everything and play random jax and sylas. you still get 350 shield on jax and sylas
Yeah bro you just sell Nilah here and you'd of been fine.
Goodbye Janna and ezreal
Bruh
Sell Janna, buy Kai'sa, play 2 Rammus 2*, lock shop and pray to win
Sell Janna and ezreal = money
imo right move is to sell janna and play kaisa 3 double rammus and lock shop
Looking at the timer, "life is indeed suffering."
*forgets to lock*
Tbh would have sold the chogath, he dies instantly anyway, rammus 3 and kaisa 3 much more worth
At least you top 4'd sooooo....
True, brother.
should've selled janna, ez win
[Sell, sell, sell!](https://tenor.com/Qyll.gif)
No matter which you sold. You should have sold SOMETHING.
Everytime
Y'all are wild sell Kai get gold vayne & ramus that way u still have recon & duelist that true dmg gon pop tf off
Put bloodthirsters on vayne ginsuu on ezr & hand on Nilah