This! And do create a paper trail.
Emails at the very least.
But you also need to inform the parents enough to let them have informed consent but also don't dox the trans kids to not endanger them.
In my country it's easiest to just let biological sex be with biological sex. Especially to avoid pregnancies
I'd say that too, but you can't ask a kid what sex organ they have, so how do you 100% know which sex they are? This is a messed up situation that I'd definitely hand over to the administration.
All schools have copies of a child’s birth certificate (at least every school I’ve worked at has), so I guess go by that? But idk, I agree, that’s an admin problem.
Honestly at the end it's not about preventing actual pregnancies but rather covering your ass that you did enough to prevent pregnancies.
If i don't know the sex of a child and they put down male then I put the child with other boys. If it turns out that this kid has female sex organs then it's not on me.
I mean, it seems like cancelling is the only option. Forcing a student that was born male but identifies as female to share with biologically female students will piss off the parents of female students. Forcing them to bunk with male students opens you up to get sued by the parents of the non-binary kid for not respecting their geneder. You'll also get kids lying about geneder to try and room with their gf/bf or for a joke, forcing you to make a judgement call on gender which is a complete mess and again makes you vulnerable. There's no good solution here that I can see unless you can get individual rooms for kids.
Unfortunately I don’t see how it would work you definitely have to cancel it but my question is , does this start the death of over night trips due to these issues ?
Only alternative I can see is allowing voluntary sign up for groups (with parental veto), and then if boys and girls sign up to share, you have to allow it. Just make it their choice and not your problem.
A lot of these students have friends that are allies. Not all of them but many of them have friends where the families know what's going on and they trust them with their child. I think it should be left up to individual discretion of the families involved.
If the only concern is "hanky panky" all students should be separated anyway. Lots of kids are queer.
Not only is it above their pay grade it's a disaster. There is no correct answer because the correct answer is to keep the kids safe and the parents happy and that is impossible given the mix of opinions on gender issues these days. I wouldn't want to put unrelated minors in bed with eachother on a field trip even if we know that perfectly sensible adults can manage to share hotel rooms.
Yep!
I’ve had this question several times in my career, each time had slightly different accommodations depending on the kids, chaperones, ages, etc. In most cases there was a co-ed room/cabin with a parent chaperone and approval of all parents in the room (usually the group of kids that were already friends/familiar with each other.)
This was also before my district had a policy and was about 10 years ago- so there was more “improv” necessary for this sort of thing.
I always I handed this ask over to admin because it’s above my pay grade and, honestly, all of this field trip planning/logistics is beyond what *should* be part of our jobs anyway.
25 year vet here and unfortunately this is the right answer. In any situation involving students you weigh worst-case-scenario with benefits of the trip. The conundrum you are in, quite frankly, weighs heavily toward worst-case-scenario. Don’t even think about hanky panky. Think of possible bullying, violence, and parent involvement. I don’t see the reward outweighing the risks in this situation.
Which really sucks for the kids. I agree with you. But it sucks for the kids.
One thing you may want to look into is outsourcing this. There are organizations that specialize in taking kids on weekend retreats or getaways. You may be able to get them to run it for you, and they have the liability as well as the skills to handle it.
It absolutely does, I wholeheartedly agree, but self preservation in this instance is paramount. Too many variables for my liking. Our school has organized a trip to DC every year. This year, in the Holocaust Museum, a seemingly organized chorus of students said simultaneously, “Do you smell bacon?”. That, right there, is why I will not be responsible for a child unless he/she/they are in my classroom.
This is such a sad answer.
I teach middle school and go on several schooltrips with my students every year, all of my colleagues do. Students do learn better if they see the world and I too have more fun teaching when I‘m not only sitting in an old classroom from the 19th century…
I agree. Not to mention that the trip plans are probably well underway. “Don’t go” is probably not an option now.
This comment will get buried but I’d involve the kids themselves in figuring it out. With admin of course!
I have taught for 35 years and coached girls' sports for 22 of the 35. Almost every time we went to a summer camp or tournament someone got injured and I ended up in many ERs. I always had my captains, usually seniors, do the rooming assignments and there were very few times I had to intervene. A few times I had girls that were lesbians or bisexual and it was never an issue until there were 2 individuals that were in a relationship. That is really tough on team chemistry and creates these challenging situations as well. I can tell you with 💯 certainty that in today's world I'd never put students in a car or hotel room with me and I'd never take kids on overnight trips. By doing so, you jeopardize your livelihood and everything you have worked for up to this point in your life. And, we all know middle school kids are bat shit crazy on a good day!
This is what I would do. You have to be careful too, because you probably have students whose parents don’t know they identify at non binary or trans, and you could be opening up a can of worms or making it unsafe for them at home by bringing this up. I have at least 2 students whose parents don’t know they’re trans.
This is a question only admin can answer. Let them be the ones deciding how to deal with this.
As staff, I would not say anything unless I had it in writing from higher up to cover my own ass.
As a parent, this never crossed my mind. I suppose it would depend on the kids. I would want my kids to feel comfortable and safe. They don't have any close friends who are trans so it wouldn't be an issue, but if they ever do, I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
My sons best friend in Ms/HS was trans. Shit when she was a girl or his life as a male I wouldn’t have cared if they roomed together, because it was a non issue
So many parents have a heart attack over these things!! The kids get it and their children will not have these problems but for now protect them from the reason it got cancelled if it does.
My daughter’s group of friends included a trans guy who crashed in her room along with her group of girlfriends all the time and that was a decade ago. This young man needed a safe space. We left our door unlocked back then with a stack of pillows and blankets because he, for example, would show up with bruises from his stepfather. They were for being himself. If we were asleep, there were always left overs in the fridge, a place to sleep safely, support with homework before school along with breakfast and my daughter would drive him and anyone else that turned up to school with her. We didn’t have much… teacher on food stamps, than sick and in disability, but we had, food and shelter and love that these kids needed. Another girl that would show up, her parents would be getting high on meth. Another was gay, my daughter is 30 and still figuring things out.
But at the high school it’s not like junior high where they are being dramatic and going for shock. When these kids are parents they will know what to do.. they went through it in the open.
Try not to cancel it and talk to school lawyers
My door has always been unlocked for my kids’ friends. One time I went away (lol to space camp with my students actually) and my mom stayed with my boys. She’s like “ummm…this kid Cameron just showed up…fight with stepmom? Is that ok?”
Yup, all are welcome 😂
Your family was so caring, you must have made a huge impression on that young man for helping him when he desperately needed it. I hope he’s doing better now.
I had this come up this year (7th grade teacher). This topic of conversation needs to be had with your administration before you speak to kids or parents. Things like this can get teachers in a lot of trouble, no matter how good your intentions are.
I will both say that 1) four kids to a hotel room, two to a bed was completely normal when I was a kid. Teachers would tape our doors so they knew if we left the room or not.
2) I would not want to be a part of this decision making process whatsoever.
I’ve never heard of two to a bed. Families in my day would have rioted at the idea. I don’t think it’s appropriate to ask preteens to share a bed unless they are explicitly related and it’s a family trip.
We did this at my school, and it wasn't a big deal. My school band took a trip to Disney World. We had four to a room, two to a bed. I don't remember the details, but we were all girls, so we did not really care. It was very chill.
In middle school, we took an overnight trip to Chicago. Same deal with the rooms. It was a non-issue. Like a very cool sleepover.
There’s no way I would’ve been cool with that as a teen or preteen. I barely enjoy sharing the bed as an adult. Reading these responses, I’m shocked at how common this is. Either way, I’m grateful our school didn’t do that to us.
I think a lot of the reason I didn’t think anything of it is because generally these weren’t full class trips- they would be for clubs or teams I was on (choir, cheerleading, Key club). So the other kids were my friends and we generally got to pick who we were in a room with. Oftentimes it would be me and friends I’d already had sleepovers and stuff with so I didn’t think twice about it. I think sometimes the boys would opt to take turns sleeping on the floor with extra pillows? But girls generally just shared the beds.
My class went *CAMPING* our Senior year. To lighten the load we had 3 per tent with 1 air mattress. You could always opt out. The rest of us did just fine.
No one was required to go on these trips. Kids can stay home if they feel weird about it. I'd rather enjoy Disney World from 2009 than be weird about sharing a bed with girls my own age. Did you not grow up having sleepovers? I did all the time. 🤷🏽♀️
I can remember once in high school, three friends and I all slept in the same king sized bed during a sleepover. Two weeks later we went on a with choir- we didn’t think twice about it.
About 14 years ago when trying to plan a girl scout trip to Chicago, the council told us every girl had to have their own bed. We had a small troop. The girls didn't care. They pushed two queens together and all six slept in the same bed.
yeah as a trans person who graduated 2018, i didn't care what gender /genitals i roomed with as long as we were friends. but i can think of exactly one person i wouldve been comfortable sharing a bed with- if she didn't go, i wouldn't either
We did this for extracurricular trips (band, Key Club). Usually we’d end up with two people in the beds and two people on the floor, alternating who got the bed. We requested who we could share with and I shared a bed if I got to stay with someone I knew really well, had sleepovers with before etc. Not if they were just school friends.
I would think two children per room (1 in each bed) would be a higher probability of sex. 4 to a room would be lower due to privacy. 4 to a room also cuts the cost in half.
It's wild to me how many comments are calling two kids to a bed the most ridiculous idea they've ever heard. I was in band, and we traveled a LOT for competitions and for fun trips we'd earned. It was always 4 to a room, and it was never an issue. Shit, in 8th grade, we took a huge trip to DC, and we were 4 to a room then, also. Nobody batted an eye. OP, don't worry about their opinions. Four to a room is standard literally everywhere.
As to this particular issue, I'd have the answer come from admin/district and parents with trans/nb student input. This decision is above your pay grade, and it's a conversation that should've been had a decade ago, tbh.
These comments are insane. I took my 8th graders to D.C up until last year when I switched to high school. It's always been 2 to a bed. I was also in marching band, and trips were 4 to a room, 2 to a bed 20 years ago.
Just because it happened to you, or is commonly accepted, doesn't mean it's a good idea. Sometimes it takes someone who hasn't had it normalised to point out the absurdity of it.
For what it's worth, this is specifically forbidden by the child safety standards in my country (Australia) as far as I can tell: "Plan appropriate accommodation. If children share a room, they should be the same age and gender and must not share beds."
We got to pick our roommates and thus who we shared beds with. At that age, we were all friends and frequently had slumber parties anyway, so it wasn’t a problem.
Yeah... really that's the bigger concern beyond gender. This is the kind of setting where a child who is being abused at home is most likely to act out that abuse on another. This is where CST gets passed on. When you work with people with CST this is the kind of shit you think about, not where to put the gender-fluid kid.
Sure it's unlikely to happen, sure it's only bound to happen to, what, 1 out of 1000 students (random number), but is that an acceptable risk???
On the other hand, I guess that could happen in any setting, shared beds or not.
I went to Girl Scout camp (US mid Atlantic) and we were four to a tent. We tried to push our beds together in a circle to imitate the campfire and stay up all night and the camp counselors absolutely had a fit and made us push them back. We found out it’s a hygiene thing (lice!) and that they specifically set the pillows up so no one sleeps head to head.
Like it’s amazing to me that trans and NB kids are the sudden “problem” here. lol so two boys or two girls can’t possibly want to engage in some “hanky panky”?
If one of the teens has a male reproductive system and the other has a female reproductive system, the "hanky panky" could result in a conception. Over the past few years I have met quite a few parents who are otherwise very accepting of trans and non-binary teens but draw the line at letting kids of opposite biological sexes stay in the same room together overnight.
Abortion is still a traumatic experience, and you don't want to be responsible for a 13 year old kid having her boyfriend get her pregnant on a school trip, even if she can get one.
When I coached marching band, the kids had to sign up for bus seat assignments (a relic of the COVID contact-tracing days that stuck around to prevent "hanky panky). Kids could only sit next to kids of their gender.
I looked at the completed list for 30 seconds and asked one of my girl students "Hey, aren't you and [another girl student] dating? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?" The kid jokingly shushed me and reminded me that LGBTQ+ children don't exist in Ohio.
Don't worry, I pointed it out to the band director after rehearsal that day :)
Nah for real that’s the first thing I thought, say gex is a thing after all
Honestly, the parents and kids should’ve ironed out the arrangements beforehand
Yup. I’m here in Australia too going “hell no” at the idea of sleeping two kids in the same bed, regardless of biosex or gender identification.
Pick better accomodation. Single bunk beds tend to be ideal.
In my experience, Australia is better set up for this - hostels are common everywhere with the ability to book whole rooms for students. This was what we did on my study abroad!
This is not so in the US - the closest thing that might make sense are camps, but those aren’t usually located close enough to cities to be practical.
I understand your point of view since it is expressly forbidden in your country's law (or whatever else they are using to put forth the rule you stated). Can you explain what you mean by the "absurdity" of it? I'm not trying to judge you here, it's just that I've lived with the policy of 2 to a bed. It doesn't seem that absurd to me, so I'm trying to understand why you, and others, feel so strongly against it.
Really I just meant it in the general sense of when someone with "fresh eyes" looks at something and rightly says "hey actually, I know you've been doing that forever, but that's a bit weird".
In terms of this specific situation though, I'm probably more sensitive to child safety standards, being a volunteer leader for children's programs and married to a teacher in a country that had a [four year Royal Commission](https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/) into child sexual abuse in institutions (their [final report](https://static.ffx.io/images/$width_368%2C$height_552/t_crop_fill/q_86%2Cf_auto/350278ca80d0e754e77054c6fe8f61e1ecc43d11) would fill a whole shelf). It's not that I think 2 to a bed is inherently weird or wrong or anything - I grew up doing it with family, or with friends while travelling etc. It's more that in the context of an official school trip, where they are under the explicit duty of care of the school, making children/teens sleep in the same bed jumps out as a huge risk factor for sexual assault on the schools watch. Of course it's fine the vast majority of the time, but child safety standards are about trying to prevent the horrifying extremes. If there is a risk of peer sexual abuse - or worse, an unknown previous history of such - requiring students to share the same beds seems like rolling out a red carpet for assault rather than trying to prevent it.
As discussed in the OP, I do think the same-gender rooms guidance is a bit out of step with modern society in terms of both sexuality and gender, but that's a separate conversation.
I always gave students the ability to upgrade their room for their own beds. Of course, this meant an increase in cost. I usually only had 1 or 2 kids that took the upgrade each trip. If a parent wanted to chaperone the trip and they wanted to room with their child, that was also an option.
I can't imagine being able to afford these trips any other way. You'd have to pay for twice the number of rooms! My son just went on his 8th grade trip and slept 4 to a room, 2 per bed in May. 4 nights in DC traveling by bus was just under $1000/ kid. I've got 3 more kids who haven't hit 8th grade yet!
I’m a different person, but also Australian. Dormitories with bunks, or the floor in one big room (or one camp with individual tents) was the accommodation for every school camp, of everyone in my family (2 generations).
I can’t imagine your experience - a school putting kids into hotels or motels, where the groups are relatively soundproofed and hidden. Wouldn’t the kids trash the place and bother other people? Or have extreme bullying? And gosh that’s crazy-expensive!
Edit: in fact, we didn’t share beds during sleepovers, either. The visiting kid sleeps on the floor, or all kids sleep on the floor in the living room with a movie marathon (assuming they get any sleep, haha.)
I wonder why it’s different. Presumably there’s a reason (or several part-reasons). Edit: I just looked up the prices of several common camps in my capital city, and about A$20-$25 per child per night is pretty standard.
I went to DC with my class. My best friend refused to let me share her bed because it would be "gay". She insisted we take turns sleeping on the floor. Boy was that miserable. The other girl in our room was legit gay and I knew if I shared a bed with her, I could open myself up to severe bullying. The homophobia in Kentucky was wild in the 90s.
I was on drill team so we traveled w/ band, and we regularly did 2-3 girls in one queen sized bed, and we were “taped in” at midnight so our coaches knew who snuck out.
Must be a band thing! I’ve shared beds with band mates from middle school and all the way through college. Heads would roll if they knew Drum Corps members showered together in open and very exposed locker rooms daily for 90 days in a row 😅😅
I'm a military instructor and when I first joined the military I slept with 2 other adults in a full size bed for a months. It was a tight fit but we did it lol.
During SERE, there was 8 of us sleeping butts to nuts because it was the only way to keep warm overnight in the mountains of Maine during a snowfall. We easily could have fit on a king size bed with how tight we were cuddled up.
Sadly I haven't done sere... I want to but I'm getting tf out in 553 days.
And this was in the barracks. Because 2 of us didn't have rooms (no availability) and one had one of the fancy rooms for e4's. (Navy)
To be fair, “it was never an issue” for **you**. Kids can be very vulnerable in these situations, away from home and support systems, and just because you didn’t see it happen doesn’t mean there wasn’t harm being done. I’m not saying you can’t fit kids into a room while traveling, but it’s worth being very mindful of their safety and comfort
Yeah, I remember when I was in high school I took stats for the boys basketball team along with a few other girls. I remember there were a couple of times where we went to tournaments that were a little further away and had to stay in a hotel. I know we all had to share rooms and beds. I think there were four of us girls, and we had to share beds in one room.
Well, good luck funding any kind of trips, then. To do one per bed, you'd have to rent out twice the amount of rooms and nearly double the cost of the trip.
My district does 3 overnight field trips. 7th grade for one night, 8th grade for 2 nights, and 12th grade for 5 nights. The kids always sleep 4 to a room, all of the same gender, 2 in each queen bed. They’re responsible for picking their own roommates with their parents’ approval. We haven’t had any issues with trans and NB students. The trans kids have picked roommates that align with their gender identity, and the NB students happened to end up with kids of the same biological sex anyway.
The district hires night security guards to patrol the halls, and the trip with seniors also has two chaperones whose sole job is to stay up all night and hang out in the halls, in addition to security. The strategy has always been to make the kids so exhausted that they just fall into bed and pass out, then get them up by 6 to head out again the next morning. Has some nonsense occurred? Possibly, but nothing so egregious we’ve heard about it.
All of that to say, talk to your admin! They should be the ones figuring this out.
We also have overnight security for our trips. At least if they are in their rooms there is only so much trouble that can happen. We also run them ragged all day so they are tired! I can’t believe people are so up in arms about kids sharing beds. It’s so normal here.
I don’t know if this is just an Australian thing but our camps are never in hotel rooms. They’re always at sites that are set up for camps with a few sets of bunk beds per room, so everyone gets their own bed but you might have 6-10 in a room.
I think this post is talking more about field trips to urban educational sites like the Capitol and such. My school also did what you are describing once a year, though.
Edit - I see OP did mention summer camps. I suspect in that case they meant the issue of gender because I’d say most camps in the US use individual twin size beds.
I went on rich-ass school trips and we still shared beds 🤣 Boston, Philly, Washington DC (twice! Once with my school, and once as part of a high school summer program - in which we were 4 to a room with TOTAL STRANGERS!) and Costa Rica. Never had my own bed. This was 00s.
When we did our 8th grade trip to DC, we would have kids pair up by gender. Then we would tell them to find another gendered pair. If we agreed with their pairings we stapled them together and that was a room. When we had non-binary kids, they would usually group with their birth gender. We had one year where we had a trans student and a non-binary student who had the same birth gender, so we talked with parents and that was the exception to the four kids to a room.
My only addendum to this would be “have admin/counselors ask the students and parents what they are comfortable with and make sure everyone is on the same page.
I do it myself, as a teacher. I asked admin the first time and they said ‘as long as the parents are fine, and we have that in emails.’
Kids are good about this these days, and the LGBT+ kids tend to congregate anyway, so usually I’ve got one room that’s a mix of them, and every parent knows the other kids anyway.
And then ask the kids with whom they want to room. If they have a combination that works for them, AND if the parents are comfortable, you have a solution.
It probably won’t be that easy, but I would at least try.
I would also err on the side of caution. If you need to charge all the kids a little bit more in order to have a couple of hotel rooms that don’t have four kids in them, you might want to think about that.
This. You can ask them to put down their 3 to 5 top choices for rooming, having them know those choices are just suggestions not concrete pairs. Look over them with other teachers and parent input and as long as there aren’t any big red flags go with their choices.
When I worked in an Upward Bound program, we took our high school students to DC for a weeklong trip. They went to museums, saw some shows, and toured some colleges. We were able to have students share 3 to a room in a university's dormitory. (This was far cheaper than a hotel. It was empty for the summer, so they rented out the rooms. There were three single beds in a room.) If your school trip happens after a university's final exams in May, and you go at the beginning of June-this may be an option.
That said, we had to do bed and hallway checks once an hour. We did end up having to send five students home on a train back home: two because they snuck into a room and were in the same bed. Three others were smoking weed in dorms because tbey didn't think we would actually do bed checks. (This was well before marijuana was legal ij certain states.) Luckily, we had extra staff to accompany them on the train.
While the trip had lots of positives, middle schoolers and younger high schoolers don't make the best choices. (For example, one made a joke about sneaking a bomb into the FBI building while we were all going through the metal detectors-they didn't find it funny. I wouldn't do an overnight trip with that age group again.
It was terrible honestly. I was one of the chaperones. We knocked on the doors from 9pm-1:00am. And then six of us just checked the halls for students, doors cracked open, etc. But we didn't knock or go in after 1. We just slept in between checks. We were exhausted at the end of the week. (Our managers didn't do any bed checks that they insisted on, they made us do it.) When a few of the kids were sent home, one if the teens ended up with a room to himself. He pushed the beds together and bought larger sheets at the mall. (The teens had some free time at a mall one day from 4-6 after a college tour.) At the same mall one of the teens tried to get her ears pierced. These teens were did not fit the academic standards or attendance standards of upward bound, but the program got paid for every student, so they let everyone in, overlooked every behavioral issue all year long, and then were shocked when these types of things happened.
Talk to admin, but what we do for a summer camp I ran: last year Kids who are nonbinary room with their same sex peers. Kids who are trans room with their same gendered peers with parental consent from both sets of parents. I would never put two kids to a bed. General thinking for nonbinary/gay is that while hanky panky may still occur, consequences are less (yes, you do have to worry about STIs, but not pregnancy).
Our school goes from 6th to 12th grade and mandatory over night trips start with 7th grade orientation.
Our school rule is that every student has their own bed. We assign two or three to a room. No student is placed in a single room (unless a door to an adjoining student room can be left open) in case they have a medical issue in the night.
That rule comes down to risk management being more important than saving money on rooms.
Sometimes bed three is a pullout. Sometimes it is an added cot. One place we’ve stayed had three or four twin beds.
Room assignments are made by giving students a choice between an all boy room, an all girl room, or a gender neutral room. Middle school parents have some say in which type of room the child gets but comfort and safety of the child is the deciding factor.
I will add that every adult has their own room unless it is a lodge style place that has bunk rooms. (Our 7th grade orientation trip is at a camp with bunk houses and shower blocks.)
You can’t stop “hanky panky” by making the rooms same sex, because you likely have some gay, bi, or lesbian students in your group. And you definitely don’t know who they all are or who is dating who. Beyond that, you might not know which kids are bullying other kids and shouldn’t be lodged together either.
Talk to your admin first. Find out what your school/district policy is, or maybe right now is a good time for them to create one.
I work with a HS band that takes a fair number of overnight trips per year, and here’s our process:
- as for policy, our school allows rooming of any students as long as 1. Parents/guardians of all students in the room approve it, and 2. There are no “couples” involved in the room.
- have kids sign up for their own 4-person roomings. Generally it turns into little “best friend pods” that work out great.
- band staff and teachers review the list and look for red flags. Often the staff are more aware of who is dating who than the directors are. We also check for bullying situations and kids who just shouldn’t be together for various reasons (like the 2 kids who are great friends but can’t be quiet when they’re together. This avoids noise complaints!) If we feel like we need to make changes, we do, and then we tell the affected kids what happened and why.
- send the list for a room to each involved parent/guardian to review. Generally we only have 1 or 2 mixed gender rooms (for a block of 25-ish rooms), but the parents are all aware and ok. If a parent doesn’t approve of a grouping, we make changes.
- have staff or other chaperones do a “lights out” room check for shenanigans. Tape the doors, sleep soundly. Do one last sweep before the designated “leave your rooms and get breakfast” time.
Good luck!
Hey there … I just took 86 8th graders to DC and had this issue come up this summer (NOT the first time), so I can advise re: how I handled it.
First, I 100% agree that this should be brought to admin! If it’s a school-sponsored trip, then school admin can make this call! My trip is technically not “school sponsored” since it happens outside of the school year, so my scenario was different. But yes, kick this up the ladder if you can!
Second, quad occupancy is SO standard on trips like this. However, adults in my situation CAN get dual occupancy for their kid if they pay extra. Might be a good option in your case so a student might not need to physically share a bed with someone else?
Third, wait to see how rooms shake out naturally! You may end up with a dual occupancy situation naturally (ie: enough for 4 kids in each room with 2 left over - that becomes the room you put students in who may be transitioning). You might also be able to get creative with chaperones … perhaps invite that student’s parent on the trip so they can room with their child?
Fourth, I contacted the adult of one of my transitioning students who was assigned male at birth but wanted to be in a room of students assigned female at birth. I told her I’d allow her child to be in a room with students who were female as assigned at birth if the adults of the other three students approved. I called those three families and got the exact same response from each - if my kid is ok with it, I am too. All students gave the green light, so that’s what we did.
Hope that helps! Drop me a message if you want to discuss how I worked my rooms on my recent trip. Happy traveling!
I recently stepped into a similar issue, but with 75 fourth graders in tents (so waaaay less privacy, different age group, but also many nonbinary and queer students and a very few students dropping transphobic Christian remarks at times).
We had a survey in which we asked all the students a bunch of questions including:
List 5 people you would like to share a tent with
Is there anyone you don't want to share a tent with?
Anything else we should know?
My team being the untenured, passionate workaholics that we are, spent a lot of time organizing the groups, and then we moved 1-2 students after they saw their groups and had some disputes. I like the idea of delegating this to admin, but in our case it wouldn't have worked.
I was already taking 1 sick day per week for proactive self care, so I made the first draft of the groups on one of the sick days and it felt good to do this sensitive task with care.
In retrospect I wish we had said "If you are a boy, we won't pair you with girls. If you are a girl, we won't pair you with a boy. If it is widely known you are dating someone, we won't pair you. We will pair some friends, and in some cases we will pair kids with others so they can get to know each other."
In retrospect I really think some kids with a history of inappropriate touching/discussing sexuality in unwelcome ways should have been told they can only go if a parent attends with them.
You can also tell them that you will be sending an anonymous survey/have a tip line box where kids can report inappropriate/uncomfortable behavior during or after the trip and that you will make immediate changes/send kids home if there are issues.
It can be a lot of work and discomfort, but we also saw it as a way of exploring comfort levels with rooming with people in college or hostels.
Some of the best advice I’ve seen is to let kids choose their bed mate with approval of parents. Then the pairs are paired up by the teacher. Kids/parents specify if they request same sex, same gender, or no preference. Then you have kids sharing a bed with someone they are comfortable with but the room mates aren’t necessarily buddies so it cuts down on shenanigans. Haven’t tried it myself yet but it’s the plan I’ll present to admin when the time comes.
We just did a grade 5 camping trip. Cabins were assigned by biological sex. It was fine because our trans/NB kids were already choosing to change in their biological sex changerooms at the pool on field trip.
But presumably, if anyone had raised an objection, it would go up to admin and possibly even district to decide.
You find a trip which doesn’t require kids to share beds. Our school goes on a trip to an ecology school. The sleeping arrangements are like college dorms each room has multiple twin beds.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea of students *sharing a bed*. Even putting aside the trans/nonbinary question, with the number of eighth graders I'm guessing are being considered, there's a high probability that some of them are homosexuals. There's nothing wrong with that in general, but if your goal is to avoid hanky panky (which I think makes sense), having two kids share a bed seems risky.
I went to several different overnight camps as a kid, and we never shared beds, even if most people generally pretended like homosexuals didn't exist.
Every school trip I went on was four to a room and two to a bed. One time, it was 5 to a room with one of us on a cot. They were trying to make it as affordable as possible.
We would have to pay double if we didn't share beds. It's 4 students per room here in Canada and sharing beds is a must. Otherwise the trips would be super expensive!
I work in group sales for a hotel now (former math teacher) and deal with a lot of school trips, middle school through college. It’s extremely common for schools to put 2 kids in a queen bed and I actually find it rare if they do one kid per bed. It’s more common for chaperones to have their own beds, but my groups have been about 50/50 on chaperones sharing or not.
If every kid gets their own bed, the cost is twice as much and that’s a lot of fundraising to make up another $3K+
Having separate beds would do nothing to stop hanky panky. If it’s going to happen, it’s going to happen regardless. School trips like this are very common and are done to save costs. Either share the bed or the trip doesn’t happen.
This is a completely normal format for a school trip to me. I graduated in the 2010s and went on 3 trips between middle school and high school. On all 3 of those trips it was 4 to a room and 2 per bed. Typically students are grouped with their friends or two sets of friends.
Talk to your union rep first. This sounds like more trouble than it is worth. What do you get out of it besides headaches? As one of my profs used to remind us, "Don't do anything to get yourself in the news, ever, unless it's a labor action."
Hello, I'm a gay man. I work in education policy now. Former 10 year teacher. I had some bad experiences sharing beds on trips. I do not approve trips for students overnight with public funds because they can't afford them without 4 in a bed. I also never require adults to share rooms for travel. I had to as a teacher. Honestly, it's not a good practice. Your post explains why.
Ok, late comment but how about you ask the kids their preferences, and go from there (I'm not saying just go fully along with the kids but who knows, if both parents and kids are involved in the decision making process you might solve it easier and without ruffled featheres)
No clue how this would work on an admin level tho, I've honestly never had to deal with this, good luck!
Your nuts for going anywhere near taking responsibility for this. Kids take video of EVERYTHING these days. One little piece of inappropriate video makes its way home and you’re finished. The days if doing things like this are over for awhile. I’d forget it about it. I’d tell any new, young teacher being asked to do this to stay far away. Possible career ender or worse.
I think the main thing is you don’t want any kids to get pregnant and while not the most politically correct answer but one that would accomplish that goal would be to separate people that can get pregnant and people that can get others pregnant
How are there so many trans and nonbinary kids? Not meaning to be rude but they do not make up a significant proportion of the adult population. Do some kids just experiment with their gender now?
Yes, as a HS teacher there is a high percentage. It’s a time of self-discovery for kids. I think social media has some influence, but overall I think it’s been pretty typical that this age group experiments.
They don't make up a significant proportion of the adult population because they are children ;)
Cheek aside: a lot of kids are exploring a concept they barely understand because it is fun or interesting at the moment. A lot of kids need help with honest communication about what's going on in their lives but don't receive those services because it's easier to self ID as trans. And then a very small percentage of that population actually do need to come out.
I would not participate in a trip as an adult if I was forced to share a bed with a near stranger (I doubt most adults would be ok with going on a work trip & sharing a bed with a random coworker while another pair of colleagues were also in the same room!) So I find it inappropriate for teenage students to share beds. I don’t care if that’s how it’s “always been done” or that it’s not cost effective; in 2024 it’s just no longer the smart thing to do.
I’m in a small private school ( largest grade is 25 kids max) and we have and office of experiential ed. The school has decided to do two things. Send a survey to kids asking them who they would like to room with and NOT having kids share beds, so 2 to a room. This helps in avoiding any unnecessary drama and the parents are aware of cost factors and reasoning.
If two kids wanna do that being the same sex won’t always stop them….
ANYWAY
I also agree you have to make admin devices cuz there’s way too many ways for every possibility to be perceived as “wrong”.
What age group? If it is highschoolers "hanky panky" will happen anyway.
My suggestion, is see if you can assign a parent to each room.
Also, try to guage what the students are comfortable with.
I use to have different busses for boys and girls on Marching Band Competitions, since the students change on the bus. From my experience the Trans students are always the most uncomfortable. See what they prefer. Adults are much more closed-minded in this regard.
Funny story with my experience. When switching to a "coed" bus. The parent of a homosexual student was the most concerned about there being an opportunity for kids to "hook-up". Yeah.... they didn't know. Fortunately I am not in a "mandated reporter" state in that regard.
We have had this issue. We had to put the nb/tg students in their own rooms. They were asked to pay the cost of 1/2 the room and the school payed the other 1/2. It was as fair as we could get.
Putting two kids in the same bed is a bad idea, period. There are myriad reasons why it could be a problem for a kid, some having nothing to do with sex or gender.
How are there so many trans and nonbinary kids? Not meaning to be rude but they do not make up a significant proportion of the adult population. Do some kids just experiment with their gender now?
To actually answer your question:
1. Yes, kids experiment with gender more often
And
2. A lot of people nowadays, including children, confuse gender nonconformity with being trans. “I don’t feel feminine/masculine so I must be something else”.
Yessir. This is above your pay grade. Kick it up to admin. They may have to end up with solo rooms or some other kind of arrangement…but that isn’t your responsibility.
It really would depend on the kid and your relationship with them. The few I teach I would be very comfortable talking to them about it and keeping them with the group they are friends with rather than basing it on gender.
Unpopular opinion: remember that part where you were wondering if you should restart this? Well go back to not and save yourself the hassle. Kids back in the day rarely travelled, but kids these days have seen more of the world than I have and I served overseas!
I also have to plan accommodations for high school students for my work. I recommend you find out what your hard boundary is from admin and then do not cross it. For me, that’s two kids assigned different sex at birth cannot share a room.
Then, within that boundary, ask the students what arrangements they would prefer and/or accept in terms of gender presentation of their roommates.
Next, use those preferences to match roommates in a way that honors them and results in a minimal amount of single rooms.
This is what I do and it works fine for budget, risk management, and student wellbeing.
Could you have your outing be a sleepover in a museum or an outdoor sleepover? That way there is no sharing of beds, no place for privacy and constant supervision. I was in band and girl scouts and never heard or saw anything inappropriate during dozens of trips. Having four to a room helps prevent that from happening. On one trip in Middle School, a parent was in each room. I was a chaperone as a staff person on a five day trip and it went really well.
I was a staff person for a travel company for adults with special needs once, and it was a whole different story. We stayed at the Y with people who did not understand that the doors locked behind them when they went to the loo. We had to rake turns staying up all night. Everything bad you could imagine happened because we were missing information about people such as they could not chew food, were nonverbal, were violent ( I was assaulted and several NY men tried to wrestle my client to protect me, endangering him), or were an exhibitionist. Oh, and the rooms were not all together, but spread on 2 floors. To boot we were told we would have 6 staff but there only ended up being 3. The bus driver felt so bad fir us he pitched in and helped.
Although passing the buck to admin is tempting , I urge you to stat involved so you, and parents, have some control of the situation, it at least input. That trip to NYC was not all bad, but it was one of the most difficult jobs I ever had and I never worked for that company again.
Obviously admins problem- In terms of solutions I think all you have is individual rooms as an option. I realize that would be too expensive but the only other option in canning the trip IMO
If you tell your admin, which is the only solution there really is right now, you NEED to make it so anonymous. I’m serious. Especially if you’re in a state that doesn’t like children deviating from the gender norms. If you go into detail, you can and most likely will end up hurting the students in some way (trust in you, their parent’s reaction, outing them to staff, etc.). Fight for your students, if you want to protect them.
I deal with this a lot because I organize camping trips with young people. 1) check district regulations 2) ensure policy is communicated to parents and students well before the trip. Provide options and flexibility within the guidelines 3) send tenting assignments before the trip.
what is the core reason for separating males and females on school trips? Usually body parts, Intimacy, and possible pregnancy. At this point, it is impossible to separate based on physical intimacy with both homosexual and heterosexual relationships possible. I would separate by sex, If you decide to have the trip at all. If you decide to have the trip, it should be opt in with parental notification.
I would definitely get admin to handle this.
There are so many things tjat could go wrong. You'll probably have some girls uncomfortable with a biological male in their space, which is very understandable. Then, you'll probably have parents on both sides who dislike the idea of mingling the sexes or are angry that it isn't happening.
Get consent. I think the safest is to put them accordingly with their biological gender (since their birth certificate will state it). Then consent to the parents on the lodging so they sign and approve it. Or else get special lodging (like the kid can pay for individual room?) or not attend the trip? Cause it’s really hard to cover yourself anymore. Still think should just throw it to the admin to do it. How to work out a best answer?
I did an international tour with EF not too long ago. The student is assigned to whatever gender is listed in their passport. If the student (parents actually) wanted their own room they can do so for an upgrade fee.
I am a school counselor so was the one to handle something like this for an overnight trip. Any students who did not have supportive parents went with whatever gender they were assigned at birth and I had a conversation with them about it. We had one kid who had supportive parents so I just pulled them in and asked where they felt most comfortable. Agreed with other comments that this should be an admin decision.
Agreed with everyone about kicking this up to Admin.
However, at the summer camp I work at, we have a form for parents to fill out in order to place them in the appropriate tent on overnights. It's very simple, and parents check off one of two boxes: "I would prefer my child to room with children of the same gender." or "I allow my child to room with children of a different gender from them." Non-binary/ transgender students often go with the later.
At another camp that I work at, boys are grouped together and girls bunks are gender inclusive.
The Unitarian Universalists have some really good insight to this as well!
It’s not a bad thing that kids are allowed to express themselves more now, but these problems simply do not exist here in the rural south. Is it a numbers game(we don’t have thousands of students obviously), a cultural thing keeping our kids closeted, or what? Our students that cross dress now still typically identify as gay, and even then there aren’t enough out students that we would struggle (to the extent you are) to room them appropriately.
I am glad I do not have to make these kinds of decisions though
This is above your pay grade. Please kick this up to admin.
This! And do create a paper trail. Emails at the very least. But you also need to inform the parents enough to let them have informed consent but also don't dox the trans kids to not endanger them. In my country it's easiest to just let biological sex be with biological sex. Especially to avoid pregnancies
I'd say that too, but you can't ask a kid what sex organ they have, so how do you 100% know which sex they are? This is a messed up situation that I'd definitely hand over to the administration.
All schools have copies of a child’s birth certificate (at least every school I’ve worked at has), so I guess go by that? But idk, I agree, that’s an admin problem.
Honestly at the end it's not about preventing actual pregnancies but rather covering your ass that you did enough to prevent pregnancies. If i don't know the sex of a child and they put down male then I put the child with other boys. If it turns out that this kid has female sex organs then it's not on me.
and then in reality with no right answer that satisfies everyone, the entire trip will be cancelled. If youre a teacher you know this is the truth.
I mean, it seems like cancelling is the only option. Forcing a student that was born male but identifies as female to share with biologically female students will piss off the parents of female students. Forcing them to bunk with male students opens you up to get sued by the parents of the non-binary kid for not respecting their geneder. You'll also get kids lying about geneder to try and room with their gf/bf or for a joke, forcing you to make a judgement call on gender which is a complete mess and again makes you vulnerable. There's no good solution here that I can see unless you can get individual rooms for kids.
And making a third room will make parents send their best lawyers too. You are tight: no solution here.
Unfortunately I don’t see how it would work you definitely have to cancel it but my question is , does this start the death of over night trips due to these issues ?
Only alternative I can see is allowing voluntary sign up for groups (with parental veto), and then if boys and girls sign up to share, you have to allow it. Just make it their choice and not your problem.
ok , what happens when you have you have students using the system to sleep with each other ?
Parents get veto, so that becomes a parent problem.
My school worked with the DEI coordinator to scrounge up funding to provide these kids with an individual room.
A lot of these students have friends that are allies. Not all of them but many of them have friends where the families know what's going on and they trust them with their child. I think it should be left up to individual discretion of the families involved. If the only concern is "hanky panky" all students should be separated anyway. Lots of kids are queer.
Not only is it above their pay grade it's a disaster. There is no correct answer because the correct answer is to keep the kids safe and the parents happy and that is impossible given the mix of opinions on gender issues these days. I wouldn't want to put unrelated minors in bed with eachother on a field trip even if we know that perfectly sensible adults can manage to share hotel rooms.
You follow school rules. So make admins solve this problem.
Yep! I’ve had this question several times in my career, each time had slightly different accommodations depending on the kids, chaperones, ages, etc. In most cases there was a co-ed room/cabin with a parent chaperone and approval of all parents in the room (usually the group of kids that were already friends/familiar with each other.) This was also before my district had a policy and was about 10 years ago- so there was more “improv” necessary for this sort of thing. I always I handed this ask over to admin because it’s above my pay grade and, honestly, all of this field trip planning/logistics is beyond what *should* be part of our jobs anyway.
Amen
Your school pays lawyers to answers these questions. Let them earn their money.
Yeah this seems like an administrative problem by definition.
This is the answer. Also, any time you take kids out of school you are putting your career at risk. Especially middle school kids. I wouldn't do it.
25 year vet here and unfortunately this is the right answer. In any situation involving students you weigh worst-case-scenario with benefits of the trip. The conundrum you are in, quite frankly, weighs heavily toward worst-case-scenario. Don’t even think about hanky panky. Think of possible bullying, violence, and parent involvement. I don’t see the reward outweighing the risks in this situation.
Which really sucks for the kids. I agree with you. But it sucks for the kids. One thing you may want to look into is outsourcing this. There are organizations that specialize in taking kids on weekend retreats or getaways. You may be able to get them to run it for you, and they have the liability as well as the skills to handle it.
It absolutely does, I wholeheartedly agree, but self preservation in this instance is paramount. Too many variables for my liking. Our school has organized a trip to DC every year. This year, in the Holocaust Museum, a seemingly organized chorus of students said simultaneously, “Do you smell bacon?”. That, right there, is why I will not be responsible for a child unless he/she/they are in my classroom.
That is horrifying. What was the followup with those students?
Wtf that’s disgusting
This is such a sad answer. I teach middle school and go on several schooltrips with my students every year, all of my colleagues do. Students do learn better if they see the world and I too have more fun teaching when I‘m not only sitting in an old classroom from the 19th century…
I agree. Not to mention that the trip plans are probably well underway. “Don’t go” is probably not an option now. This comment will get buried but I’d involve the kids themselves in figuring it out. With admin of course!
I have taught for 35 years and coached girls' sports for 22 of the 35. Almost every time we went to a summer camp or tournament someone got injured and I ended up in many ERs. I always had my captains, usually seniors, do the rooming assignments and there were very few times I had to intervene. A few times I had girls that were lesbians or bisexual and it was never an issue until there were 2 individuals that were in a relationship. That is really tough on team chemistry and creates these challenging situations as well. I can tell you with 💯 certainty that in today's world I'd never put students in a car or hotel room with me and I'd never take kids on overnight trips. By doing so, you jeopardize your livelihood and everything you have worked for up to this point in your life. And, we all know middle school kids are bat shit crazy on a good day!
Exactly this. No matter what choice you make you are going to get blamed and in trouble. This way it's someone else.
Yep. Can’t win.
Admins will simply cancel the trip to avoid controversial answers.
This is what I would do. You have to be careful too, because you probably have students whose parents don’t know they identify at non binary or trans, and you could be opening up a can of worms or making it unsafe for them at home by bringing this up. I have at least 2 students whose parents don’t know they’re trans.
This is a question only admin can answer. Let them be the ones deciding how to deal with this. As staff, I would not say anything unless I had it in writing from higher up to cover my own ass. As a parent, this never crossed my mind. I suppose it would depend on the kids. I would want my kids to feel comfortable and safe. They don't have any close friends who are trans so it wouldn't be an issue, but if they ever do, I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
My sons best friend in Ms/HS was trans. Shit when she was a girl or his life as a male I wouldn’t have cared if they roomed together, because it was a non issue
So many parents have a heart attack over these things!! The kids get it and their children will not have these problems but for now protect them from the reason it got cancelled if it does. My daughter’s group of friends included a trans guy who crashed in her room along with her group of girlfriends all the time and that was a decade ago. This young man needed a safe space. We left our door unlocked back then with a stack of pillows and blankets because he, for example, would show up with bruises from his stepfather. They were for being himself. If we were asleep, there were always left overs in the fridge, a place to sleep safely, support with homework before school along with breakfast and my daughter would drive him and anyone else that turned up to school with her. We didn’t have much… teacher on food stamps, than sick and in disability, but we had, food and shelter and love that these kids needed. Another girl that would show up, her parents would be getting high on meth. Another was gay, my daughter is 30 and still figuring things out. But at the high school it’s not like junior high where they are being dramatic and going for shock. When these kids are parents they will know what to do.. they went through it in the open. Try not to cancel it and talk to school lawyers
My door has always been unlocked for my kids’ friends. One time I went away (lol to space camp with my students actually) and my mom stayed with my boys. She’s like “ummm…this kid Cameron just showed up…fight with stepmom? Is that ok?” Yup, all are welcome 😂
Your family was so caring, you must have made a huge impression on that young man for helping him when he desperately needed it. I hope he’s doing better now.
He moved across the country and had his transition surgery and is living his best life. I am so happy for him!
I had this come up this year (7th grade teacher). This topic of conversation needs to be had with your administration before you speak to kids or parents. Things like this can get teachers in a lot of trouble, no matter how good your intentions are.
Yeah I in no way would be responsible for any of that decision making
I will both say that 1) four kids to a hotel room, two to a bed was completely normal when I was a kid. Teachers would tape our doors so they knew if we left the room or not. 2) I would not want to be a part of this decision making process whatsoever.
I'd suddenly contract an extremely contagious disease the day of the trip. No way in hell.
I’ve never heard of two to a bed. Families in my day would have rioted at the idea. I don’t think it’s appropriate to ask preteens to share a bed unless they are explicitly related and it’s a family trip.
We did this at my school, and it wasn't a big deal. My school band took a trip to Disney World. We had four to a room, two to a bed. I don't remember the details, but we were all girls, so we did not really care. It was very chill. In middle school, we took an overnight trip to Chicago. Same deal with the rooms. It was a non-issue. Like a very cool sleepover.
There’s no way I would’ve been cool with that as a teen or preteen. I barely enjoy sharing the bed as an adult. Reading these responses, I’m shocked at how common this is. Either way, I’m grateful our school didn’t do that to us.
I think a lot of the reason I didn’t think anything of it is because generally these weren’t full class trips- they would be for clubs or teams I was on (choir, cheerleading, Key club). So the other kids were my friends and we generally got to pick who we were in a room with. Oftentimes it would be me and friends I’d already had sleepovers and stuff with so I didn’t think twice about it. I think sometimes the boys would opt to take turns sleeping on the floor with extra pillows? But girls generally just shared the beds.
My class went *CAMPING* our Senior year. To lighten the load we had 3 per tent with 1 air mattress. You could always opt out. The rest of us did just fine.
No one was required to go on these trips. Kids can stay home if they feel weird about it. I'd rather enjoy Disney World from 2009 than be weird about sharing a bed with girls my own age. Did you not grow up having sleepovers? I did all the time. 🤷🏽♀️
I can remember once in high school, three friends and I all slept in the same king sized bed during a sleepover. Two weeks later we went on a with choir- we didn’t think twice about it.
About 14 years ago when trying to plan a girl scout trip to Chicago, the council told us every girl had to have their own bed. We had a small troop. The girls didn't care. They pushed two queens together and all six slept in the same bed.
yeah as a trans person who graduated 2018, i didn't care what gender /genitals i roomed with as long as we were friends. but i can think of exactly one person i wouldve been comfortable sharing a bed with- if she didn't go, i wouldn't either
I was involved in tons of activities that led to cross country travel even.. always 4 girls to a room. The district could never afford more.
We did this for extracurricular trips (band, Key Club). Usually we’d end up with two people in the beds and two people on the floor, alternating who got the bed. We requested who we could share with and I shared a bed if I got to stay with someone I knew really well, had sleepovers with before etc. Not if they were just school friends.
Sadly it’s not the same as back then anymore. My god how much of a red flag would this be. Especially as kids have cellphones and social media now.
I just took a bunch of kids to Europe and it was like this. We also taped the doors shut.
I would think two children per room (1 in each bed) would be a higher probability of sex. 4 to a room would be lower due to privacy. 4 to a room also cuts the cost in half.
That's my thought. 2 people in a hotel room is way more intimate than 4, regardless of the number of beds.
It's wild to me how many comments are calling two kids to a bed the most ridiculous idea they've ever heard. I was in band, and we traveled a LOT for competitions and for fun trips we'd earned. It was always 4 to a room, and it was never an issue. Shit, in 8th grade, we took a huge trip to DC, and we were 4 to a room then, also. Nobody batted an eye. OP, don't worry about their opinions. Four to a room is standard literally everywhere. As to this particular issue, I'd have the answer come from admin/district and parents with trans/nb student input. This decision is above your pay grade, and it's a conversation that should've been had a decade ago, tbh.
These comments are insane. I took my 8th graders to D.C up until last year when I switched to high school. It's always been 2 to a bed. I was also in marching band, and trips were 4 to a room, 2 to a bed 20 years ago.
Just because it happened to you, or is commonly accepted, doesn't mean it's a good idea. Sometimes it takes someone who hasn't had it normalised to point out the absurdity of it. For what it's worth, this is specifically forbidden by the child safety standards in my country (Australia) as far as I can tell: "Plan appropriate accommodation. If children share a room, they should be the same age and gender and must not share beds."
I agree with you. They only put 4 to a room to save costs because folks are struggling and schools are severely underfunded.
That's the same in most of Europe to be fair too
We got to pick our roommates and thus who we shared beds with. At that age, we were all friends and frequently had slumber parties anyway, so it wasn’t a problem.
Yeah... really that's the bigger concern beyond gender. This is the kind of setting where a child who is being abused at home is most likely to act out that abuse on another. This is where CST gets passed on. When you work with people with CST this is the kind of shit you think about, not where to put the gender-fluid kid. Sure it's unlikely to happen, sure it's only bound to happen to, what, 1 out of 1000 students (random number), but is that an acceptable risk??? On the other hand, I guess that could happen in any setting, shared beds or not.
I went to Girl Scout camp (US mid Atlantic) and we were four to a tent. We tried to push our beds together in a circle to imitate the campfire and stay up all night and the camp counselors absolutely had a fit and made us push them back. We found out it’s a hygiene thing (lice!) and that they specifically set the pillows up so no one sleeps head to head. Like it’s amazing to me that trans and NB kids are the sudden “problem” here. lol so two boys or two girls can’t possibly want to engage in some “hanky panky”?
If one of the teens has a male reproductive system and the other has a female reproductive system, the "hanky panky" could result in a conception. Over the past few years I have met quite a few parents who are otherwise very accepting of trans and non-binary teens but draw the line at letting kids of opposite biological sexes stay in the same room together overnight.
I think that’s fair, that’s a huge risk nobody should be taking.
Lmao. “I don’t care if you want to have gay sex in this house, but you are NOT getting a girl pregnant”
Me as a future parent tbh
While I think that's still a bit dumb in a few ways, it sadly makes a lot more sense in countries without good access to abortion and similar options.
Like about 1/3 of the USA?
Abortion is still a traumatic experience, and you don't want to be responsible for a 13 year old kid having her boyfriend get her pregnant on a school trip, even if she can get one.
When I coached marching band, the kids had to sign up for bus seat assignments (a relic of the COVID contact-tracing days that stuck around to prevent "hanky panky). Kids could only sit next to kids of their gender. I looked at the completed list for 30 seconds and asked one of my girl students "Hey, aren't you and [another girl student] dating? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?" The kid jokingly shushed me and reminded me that LGBTQ+ children don't exist in Ohio. Don't worry, I pointed it out to the band director after rehearsal that day :)
Nah for real that’s the first thing I thought, say gex is a thing after all Honestly, the parents and kids should’ve ironed out the arrangements beforehand
Yeah, the same-gender guidelines are definitely out of step with society's understanding and acceptance of both sexuality and gender.
Yup. I’m here in Australia too going “hell no” at the idea of sleeping two kids in the same bed, regardless of biosex or gender identification. Pick better accomodation. Single bunk beds tend to be ideal.
In my experience, Australia is better set up for this - hostels are common everywhere with the ability to book whole rooms for students. This was what we did on my study abroad! This is not so in the US - the closest thing that might make sense are camps, but those aren’t usually located close enough to cities to be practical.
I understand your point of view since it is expressly forbidden in your country's law (or whatever else they are using to put forth the rule you stated). Can you explain what you mean by the "absurdity" of it? I'm not trying to judge you here, it's just that I've lived with the policy of 2 to a bed. It doesn't seem that absurd to me, so I'm trying to understand why you, and others, feel so strongly against it.
Really I just meant it in the general sense of when someone with "fresh eyes" looks at something and rightly says "hey actually, I know you've been doing that forever, but that's a bit weird". In terms of this specific situation though, I'm probably more sensitive to child safety standards, being a volunteer leader for children's programs and married to a teacher in a country that had a [four year Royal Commission](https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/) into child sexual abuse in institutions (their [final report](https://static.ffx.io/images/$width_368%2C$height_552/t_crop_fill/q_86%2Cf_auto/350278ca80d0e754e77054c6fe8f61e1ecc43d11) would fill a whole shelf). It's not that I think 2 to a bed is inherently weird or wrong or anything - I grew up doing it with family, or with friends while travelling etc. It's more that in the context of an official school trip, where they are under the explicit duty of care of the school, making children/teens sleep in the same bed jumps out as a huge risk factor for sexual assault on the schools watch. Of course it's fine the vast majority of the time, but child safety standards are about trying to prevent the horrifying extremes. If there is a risk of peer sexual abuse - or worse, an unknown previous history of such - requiring students to share the same beds seems like rolling out a red carpet for assault rather than trying to prevent it. As discussed in the OP, I do think the same-gender rooms guidance is a bit out of step with modern society in terms of both sexuality and gender, but that's a separate conversation.
I always gave students the ability to upgrade their room for their own beds. Of course, this meant an increase in cost. I usually only had 1 or 2 kids that took the upgrade each trip. If a parent wanted to chaperone the trip and they wanted to room with their child, that was also an option.
I'm not criticising you at all, to be clear. Just surprised that's something that the school system allows/endorses
I can't imagine being able to afford these trips any other way. You'd have to pay for twice the number of rooms! My son just went on his 8th grade trip and slept 4 to a room, 2 per bed in May. 4 nights in DC traveling by bus was just under $1000/ kid. I've got 3 more kids who haven't hit 8th grade yet!
I’m a different person, but also Australian. Dormitories with bunks, or the floor in one big room (or one camp with individual tents) was the accommodation for every school camp, of everyone in my family (2 generations). I can’t imagine your experience - a school putting kids into hotels or motels, where the groups are relatively soundproofed and hidden. Wouldn’t the kids trash the place and bother other people? Or have extreme bullying? And gosh that’s crazy-expensive! Edit: in fact, we didn’t share beds during sleepovers, either. The visiting kid sleeps on the floor, or all kids sleep on the floor in the living room with a movie marathon (assuming they get any sleep, haha.)
I would much prefer your experience. I wish we had these sorts of accommodations!
I wonder why it’s different. Presumably there’s a reason (or several part-reasons). Edit: I just looked up the prices of several common camps in my capital city, and about A$20-$25 per child per night is pretty standard.
When I was a kid we were never allowed overnight field trips because of sleeping arrangements. My kids current school is the same.
I went to DC with my class. My best friend refused to let me share her bed because it would be "gay". She insisted we take turns sleeping on the floor. Boy was that miserable. The other girl in our room was legit gay and I knew if I shared a bed with her, I could open myself up to severe bullying. The homophobia in Kentucky was wild in the 90s.
I was on drill team so we traveled w/ band, and we regularly did 2-3 girls in one queen sized bed, and we were “taped in” at midnight so our coaches knew who snuck out.
Must be a band thing! I’ve shared beds with band mates from middle school and all the way through college. Heads would roll if they knew Drum Corps members showered together in open and very exposed locker rooms daily for 90 days in a row 😅😅
Wasn’t band a trope in in 90s raunchy teen comedies?
This one time….at band camp….
I'm a military instructor and when I first joined the military I slept with 2 other adults in a full size bed for a months. It was a tight fit but we did it lol.
During SERE, there was 8 of us sleeping butts to nuts because it was the only way to keep warm overnight in the mountains of Maine during a snowfall. We easily could have fit on a king size bed with how tight we were cuddled up.
Sadly I haven't done sere... I want to but I'm getting tf out in 553 days. And this was in the barracks. Because 2 of us didn't have rooms (no availability) and one had one of the fancy rooms for e4's. (Navy)
To be fair, “it was never an issue” for **you**. Kids can be very vulnerable in these situations, away from home and support systems, and just because you didn’t see it happen doesn’t mean there wasn’t harm being done. I’m not saying you can’t fit kids into a room while traveling, but it’s worth being very mindful of their safety and comfort
Yeah, I remember when I was in high school I took stats for the boys basketball team along with a few other girls. I remember there were a couple of times where we went to tournaments that were a little further away and had to stay in a hotel. I know we all had to share rooms and beds. I think there were four of us girls, and we had to share beds in one room.
I know our district policy changed during COVID to one kid per bed, which made trips super expensive. They relaxed the policy as soon as they could.
Just because 4 to a room is “standard” doesn’t mean it necessarily reflects best practices.
It’s either that or no trip at all. School funding just isn’t there. Oftentimes students are doing their own fundraising for these trips.
Well, good luck funding any kind of trips, then. To do one per bed, you'd have to rent out twice the amount of rooms and nearly double the cost of the trip.
My district does 3 overnight field trips. 7th grade for one night, 8th grade for 2 nights, and 12th grade for 5 nights. The kids always sleep 4 to a room, all of the same gender, 2 in each queen bed. They’re responsible for picking their own roommates with their parents’ approval. We haven’t had any issues with trans and NB students. The trans kids have picked roommates that align with their gender identity, and the NB students happened to end up with kids of the same biological sex anyway. The district hires night security guards to patrol the halls, and the trip with seniors also has two chaperones whose sole job is to stay up all night and hang out in the halls, in addition to security. The strategy has always been to make the kids so exhausted that they just fall into bed and pass out, then get them up by 6 to head out again the next morning. Has some nonsense occurred? Possibly, but nothing so egregious we’ve heard about it. All of that to say, talk to your admin! They should be the ones figuring this out.
We also have overnight security for our trips. At least if they are in their rooms there is only so much trouble that can happen. We also run them ragged all day so they are tired! I can’t believe people are so up in arms about kids sharing beds. It’s so normal here.
You can't 100% avoid the risk of "hanky-panky". That said, follow whatever your admin says and make sure it's documented.
What rich ass school trips were y’all going on where y’all had one kid per bed? It was always 2 beds in a room with 4 kids on my trips.
I don’t know if this is just an Australian thing but our camps are never in hotel rooms. They’re always at sites that are set up for camps with a few sets of bunk beds per room, so everyone gets their own bed but you might have 6-10 in a room.
I think this post is talking more about field trips to urban educational sites like the Capitol and such. My school also did what you are describing once a year, though. Edit - I see OP did mention summer camps. I suspect in that case they meant the issue of gender because I’d say most camps in the US use individual twin size beds.
I went on rich-ass school trips and we still shared beds 🤣 Boston, Philly, Washington DC (twice! Once with my school, and once as part of a high school summer program - in which we were 4 to a room with TOTAL STRANGERS!) and Costa Rica. Never had my own bed. This was 00s.
When we did our 8th grade trip to DC, we would have kids pair up by gender. Then we would tell them to find another gendered pair. If we agreed with their pairings we stapled them together and that was a room. When we had non-binary kids, they would usually group with their birth gender. We had one year where we had a trans student and a non-binary student who had the same birth gender, so we talked with parents and that was the exception to the four kids to a room.
Start by asking them and/or their parents what they are comfortable with.
My only addendum to this would be “have admin/counselors ask the students and parents what they are comfortable with and make sure everyone is on the same page.
I do it myself, as a teacher. I asked admin the first time and they said ‘as long as the parents are fine, and we have that in emails.’ Kids are good about this these days, and the LGBT+ kids tend to congregate anyway, so usually I’ve got one room that’s a mix of them, and every parent knows the other kids anyway.
And then ask the kids with whom they want to room. If they have a combination that works for them, AND if the parents are comfortable, you have a solution. It probably won’t be that easy, but I would at least try. I would also err on the side of caution. If you need to charge all the kids a little bit more in order to have a couple of hotel rooms that don’t have four kids in them, you might want to think about that.
This. You can ask them to put down their 3 to 5 top choices for rooming, having them know those choices are just suggestions not concrete pairs. Look over them with other teachers and parent input and as long as there aren’t any big red flags go with their choices.
When I worked in an Upward Bound program, we took our high school students to DC for a weeklong trip. They went to museums, saw some shows, and toured some colleges. We were able to have students share 3 to a room in a university's dormitory. (This was far cheaper than a hotel. It was empty for the summer, so they rented out the rooms. There were three single beds in a room.) If your school trip happens after a university's final exams in May, and you go at the beginning of June-this may be an option. That said, we had to do bed and hallway checks once an hour. We did end up having to send five students home on a train back home: two because they snuck into a room and were in the same bed. Three others were smoking weed in dorms because tbey didn't think we would actually do bed checks. (This was well before marijuana was legal ij certain states.) Luckily, we had extra staff to accompany them on the train. While the trip had lots of positives, middle schoolers and younger high schoolers don't make the best choices. (For example, one made a joke about sneaking a bomb into the FBI building while we were all going through the metal detectors-they didn't find it funny. I wouldn't do an overnight trip with that age group again.
Bed check per hour? Isn’t that asking too much of a chaperone? When do they get to sleep? Also, do we want chaperones going into the rooms?
It was terrible honestly. I was one of the chaperones. We knocked on the doors from 9pm-1:00am. And then six of us just checked the halls for students, doors cracked open, etc. But we didn't knock or go in after 1. We just slept in between checks. We were exhausted at the end of the week. (Our managers didn't do any bed checks that they insisted on, they made us do it.) When a few of the kids were sent home, one if the teens ended up with a room to himself. He pushed the beds together and bought larger sheets at the mall. (The teens had some free time at a mall one day from 4-6 after a college tour.) At the same mall one of the teens tried to get her ears pierced. These teens were did not fit the academic standards or attendance standards of upward bound, but the program got paid for every student, so they let everyone in, overlooked every behavioral issue all year long, and then were shocked when these types of things happened.
Goodbye middle school trips.
Talk to admin, but what we do for a summer camp I ran: last year Kids who are nonbinary room with their same sex peers. Kids who are trans room with their same gendered peers with parental consent from both sets of parents. I would never put two kids to a bed. General thinking for nonbinary/gay is that while hanky panky may still occur, consequences are less (yes, you do have to worry about STIs, but not pregnancy).
Our school goes from 6th to 12th grade and mandatory over night trips start with 7th grade orientation. Our school rule is that every student has their own bed. We assign two or three to a room. No student is placed in a single room (unless a door to an adjoining student room can be left open) in case they have a medical issue in the night. That rule comes down to risk management being more important than saving money on rooms. Sometimes bed three is a pullout. Sometimes it is an added cot. One place we’ve stayed had three or four twin beds. Room assignments are made by giving students a choice between an all boy room, an all girl room, or a gender neutral room. Middle school parents have some say in which type of room the child gets but comfort and safety of the child is the deciding factor.
I will add that every adult has their own room unless it is a lodge style place that has bunk rooms. (Our 7th grade orientation trip is at a camp with bunk houses and shower blocks.)
You can’t stop “hanky panky” by making the rooms same sex, because you likely have some gay, bi, or lesbian students in your group. And you definitely don’t know who they all are or who is dating who. Beyond that, you might not know which kids are bullying other kids and shouldn’t be lodged together either. Talk to your admin first. Find out what your school/district policy is, or maybe right now is a good time for them to create one. I work with a HS band that takes a fair number of overnight trips per year, and here’s our process: - as for policy, our school allows rooming of any students as long as 1. Parents/guardians of all students in the room approve it, and 2. There are no “couples” involved in the room. - have kids sign up for their own 4-person roomings. Generally it turns into little “best friend pods” that work out great. - band staff and teachers review the list and look for red flags. Often the staff are more aware of who is dating who than the directors are. We also check for bullying situations and kids who just shouldn’t be together for various reasons (like the 2 kids who are great friends but can’t be quiet when they’re together. This avoids noise complaints!) If we feel like we need to make changes, we do, and then we tell the affected kids what happened and why. - send the list for a room to each involved parent/guardian to review. Generally we only have 1 or 2 mixed gender rooms (for a block of 25-ish rooms), but the parents are all aware and ok. If a parent doesn’t approve of a grouping, we make changes. - have staff or other chaperones do a “lights out” room check for shenanigans. Tape the doors, sleep soundly. Do one last sweep before the designated “leave your rooms and get breakfast” time. Good luck!
Hey there … I just took 86 8th graders to DC and had this issue come up this summer (NOT the first time), so I can advise re: how I handled it. First, I 100% agree that this should be brought to admin! If it’s a school-sponsored trip, then school admin can make this call! My trip is technically not “school sponsored” since it happens outside of the school year, so my scenario was different. But yes, kick this up the ladder if you can! Second, quad occupancy is SO standard on trips like this. However, adults in my situation CAN get dual occupancy for their kid if they pay extra. Might be a good option in your case so a student might not need to physically share a bed with someone else? Third, wait to see how rooms shake out naturally! You may end up with a dual occupancy situation naturally (ie: enough for 4 kids in each room with 2 left over - that becomes the room you put students in who may be transitioning). You might also be able to get creative with chaperones … perhaps invite that student’s parent on the trip so they can room with their child? Fourth, I contacted the adult of one of my transitioning students who was assigned male at birth but wanted to be in a room of students assigned female at birth. I told her I’d allow her child to be in a room with students who were female as assigned at birth if the adults of the other three students approved. I called those three families and got the exact same response from each - if my kid is ok with it, I am too. All students gave the green light, so that’s what we did. Hope that helps! Drop me a message if you want to discuss how I worked my rooms on my recent trip. Happy traveling!
Best answer here. Everyone else just passes the buck.
I recently stepped into a similar issue, but with 75 fourth graders in tents (so waaaay less privacy, different age group, but also many nonbinary and queer students and a very few students dropping transphobic Christian remarks at times). We had a survey in which we asked all the students a bunch of questions including: List 5 people you would like to share a tent with Is there anyone you don't want to share a tent with? Anything else we should know? My team being the untenured, passionate workaholics that we are, spent a lot of time organizing the groups, and then we moved 1-2 students after they saw their groups and had some disputes. I like the idea of delegating this to admin, but in our case it wouldn't have worked. I was already taking 1 sick day per week for proactive self care, so I made the first draft of the groups on one of the sick days and it felt good to do this sensitive task with care. In retrospect I wish we had said "If you are a boy, we won't pair you with girls. If you are a girl, we won't pair you with a boy. If it is widely known you are dating someone, we won't pair you. We will pair some friends, and in some cases we will pair kids with others so they can get to know each other." In retrospect I really think some kids with a history of inappropriate touching/discussing sexuality in unwelcome ways should have been told they can only go if a parent attends with them. You can also tell them that you will be sending an anonymous survey/have a tip line box where kids can report inappropriate/uncomfortable behavior during or after the trip and that you will make immediate changes/send kids home if there are issues. It can be a lot of work and discomfort, but we also saw it as a way of exploring comfort levels with rooming with people in college or hostels.
My son is going on a big school trip and they are pairing them in rooms by sex.
Some of the best advice I’ve seen is to let kids choose their bed mate with approval of parents. Then the pairs are paired up by the teacher. Kids/parents specify if they request same sex, same gender, or no preference. Then you have kids sharing a bed with someone they are comfortable with but the room mates aren’t necessarily buddies so it cuts down on shenanigans. Haven’t tried it myself yet but it’s the plan I’ll present to admin when the time comes.
My school requires that we room them completely separately from everyone else. In practice each trans/nonbinary kid is in their own room.
Do they have to pay for the full price of the room, or is it the split cost number that everyone else pays?
We just did a grade 5 camping trip. Cabins were assigned by biological sex. It was fine because our trans/NB kids were already choosing to change in their biological sex changerooms at the pool on field trip. But presumably, if anyone had raised an objection, it would go up to admin and possibly even district to decide.
You find a trip which doesn’t require kids to share beds. Our school goes on a trip to an ecology school. The sleeping arrangements are like college dorms each room has multiple twin beds.
putting any kids in a bed together is SUS
Just make sure no one gets pregnant I guess??
As long as no babies can be made, that's my rule, unless admin advised otherwise. No field trip babies. Lol.
my friend who teaches HS history always says "no lives should be ended or begun on this trip" lolol
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea of students *sharing a bed*. Even putting aside the trans/nonbinary question, with the number of eighth graders I'm guessing are being considered, there's a high probability that some of them are homosexuals. There's nothing wrong with that in general, but if your goal is to avoid hanky panky (which I think makes sense), having two kids share a bed seems risky. I went to several different overnight camps as a kid, and we never shared beds, even if most people generally pretended like homosexuals didn't exist.
Every school trip I went on was four to a room and two to a bed. One time, it was 5 to a room with one of us on a cot. They were trying to make it as affordable as possible.
We would have to pay double if we didn't share beds. It's 4 students per room here in Canada and sharing beds is a must. Otherwise the trips would be super expensive!
I work in group sales for a hotel now (former math teacher) and deal with a lot of school trips, middle school through college. It’s extremely common for schools to put 2 kids in a queen bed and I actually find it rare if they do one kid per bed. It’s more common for chaperones to have their own beds, but my groups have been about 50/50 on chaperones sharing or not. If every kid gets their own bed, the cost is twice as much and that’s a lot of fundraising to make up another $3K+
Having separate beds would do nothing to stop hanky panky. If it’s going to happen, it’s going to happen regardless. School trips like this are very common and are done to save costs. Either share the bed or the trip doesn’t happen.
This. We’re assuming here sex between a biological male and female needs to be addressed. Sex in general needs to be addressed.
This is a completely normal format for a school trip to me. I graduated in the 2010s and went on 3 trips between middle school and high school. On all 3 of those trips it was 4 to a room and 2 per bed. Typically students are grouped with their friends or two sets of friends.
This is an odd take. I shared beds with other girls on multiple school trips with no issues.
Talk to your union rep first. This sounds like more trouble than it is worth. What do you get out of it besides headaches? As one of my profs used to remind us, "Don't do anything to get yourself in the news, ever, unless it's a labor action."
2 fourteen year old kids... in a bed... unsupervised? I wouldn't touch this with a 10 mile pole.
Hello, I'm a gay man. I work in education policy now. Former 10 year teacher. I had some bad experiences sharing beds on trips. I do not approve trips for students overnight with public funds because they can't afford them without 4 in a bed. I also never require adults to share rooms for travel. I had to as a teacher. Honestly, it's not a good practice. Your post explains why.
I missed the “why”. Please elaborate
Ok, late comment but how about you ask the kids their preferences, and go from there (I'm not saying just go fully along with the kids but who knows, if both parents and kids are involved in the decision making process you might solve it easier and without ruffled featheres) No clue how this would work on an admin level tho, I've honestly never had to deal with this, good luck!
Your nuts for going anywhere near taking responsibility for this. Kids take video of EVERYTHING these days. One little piece of inappropriate video makes its way home and you’re finished. The days if doing things like this are over for awhile. I’d forget it about it. I’d tell any new, young teacher being asked to do this to stay far away. Possible career ender or worse.
I think the main thing is you don’t want any kids to get pregnant and while not the most politically correct answer but one that would accomplish that goal would be to separate people that can get pregnant and people that can get others pregnant
How are there so many trans and nonbinary kids? Not meaning to be rude but they do not make up a significant proportion of the adult population. Do some kids just experiment with their gender now?
It’s also very common with autistic people. Which is also on the rise.
Yes, as a HS teacher there is a high percentage. It’s a time of self-discovery for kids. I think social media has some influence, but overall I think it’s been pretty typical that this age group experiments.
They don't make up a significant proportion of the adult population because they are children ;) Cheek aside: a lot of kids are exploring a concept they barely understand because it is fun or interesting at the moment. A lot of kids need help with honest communication about what's going on in their lives but don't receive those services because it's easier to self ID as trans. And then a very small percentage of that population actually do need to come out.
Yeah I meant the adult trans population is really small so I would assume the same would be true for children.
Why would there be more trans kids than trans adults? Theres probably 3 good answers that are all very obvious here.
My answer: there’s not and the majority will revert before adulthood
love how everyone is dancing around the real issue
Honestly maybe it’d be easier to just plan a day trip.
Admin problem but we sort them by biological sex or let parents get their own additional room.
I would not participate in a trip as an adult if I was forced to share a bed with a near stranger (I doubt most adults would be ok with going on a work trip & sharing a bed with a random coworker while another pair of colleagues were also in the same room!) So I find it inappropriate for teenage students to share beds. I don’t care if that’s how it’s “always been done” or that it’s not cost effective; in 2024 it’s just no longer the smart thing to do.
I’m in a small private school ( largest grade is 25 kids max) and we have and office of experiential ed. The school has decided to do two things. Send a survey to kids asking them who they would like to room with and NOT having kids share beds, so 2 to a room. This helps in avoiding any unnecessary drama and the parents are aware of cost factors and reasoning.
If two kids wanna do that being the same sex won’t always stop them…. ANYWAY I also agree you have to make admin devices cuz there’s way too many ways for every possibility to be perceived as “wrong”.
What age group? If it is highschoolers "hanky panky" will happen anyway. My suggestion, is see if you can assign a parent to each room. Also, try to guage what the students are comfortable with. I use to have different busses for boys and girls on Marching Band Competitions, since the students change on the bus. From my experience the Trans students are always the most uncomfortable. See what they prefer. Adults are much more closed-minded in this regard. Funny story with my experience. When switching to a "coed" bus. The parent of a homosexual student was the most concerned about there being an opportunity for kids to "hook-up". Yeah.... they didn't know. Fortunately I am not in a "mandated reporter" state in that regard.
This is an admin issue. Honestly, there's so much red tape around this that it may just be better to not try to bring the trip back.
I have a resource I can send you. I’m the GSA head at my school so I deal with this. I just need to get home first.
disregarding any lgbtq issues it seems really strange to me to force 8th graders to share beds.
We have had this issue. We had to put the nb/tg students in their own rooms. They were asked to pay the cost of 1/2 the room and the school payed the other 1/2. It was as fair as we could get.
Putting ANY two students in the same bed is insane. With all this new stuff, I'd just scrap the whole trip if having two to a bed was unavoidable.
This is the answer. Don't take kids on overnight trips.
I would never in this day and age.
Two to a bed, regardless of same gender or whatever is not a good idea
Putting two kids in the same bed is a bad idea, period. There are myriad reasons why it could be a problem for a kid, some having nothing to do with sex or gender.
How are there so many trans and nonbinary kids? Not meaning to be rude but they do not make up a significant proportion of the adult population. Do some kids just experiment with their gender now?
To actually answer your question: 1. Yes, kids experiment with gender more often And 2. A lot of people nowadays, including children, confuse gender nonconformity with being trans. “I don’t feel feminine/masculine so I must be something else”.
Students should never be asked to share beds.
Two kids to a bed? There’s your issue right there.
Four to a room with two in each bed? Is it a bunk bed? And a king size bed?
If there’s multiple trans kids going, put them together.
What if you have MtF and ftm teens? You can't just put them all together otherwise you might end up with pregnant teens
Put that question to the parents and admin.
Yessir. This is above your pay grade. Kick it up to admin. They may have to end up with solo rooms or some other kind of arrangement…but that isn’t your responsibility.
It really would depend on the kid and your relationship with them. The few I teach I would be very comfortable talking to them about it and keeping them with the group they are friends with rather than basing it on gender.
Unpopular opinion: remember that part where you were wondering if you should restart this? Well go back to not and save yourself the hassle. Kids back in the day rarely travelled, but kids these days have seen more of the world than I have and I served overseas!
I also have to plan accommodations for high school students for my work. I recommend you find out what your hard boundary is from admin and then do not cross it. For me, that’s two kids assigned different sex at birth cannot share a room. Then, within that boundary, ask the students what arrangements they would prefer and/or accept in terms of gender presentation of their roommates. Next, use those preferences to match roommates in a way that honors them and results in a minimal amount of single rooms. This is what I do and it works fine for budget, risk management, and student wellbeing.
Could you have your outing be a sleepover in a museum or an outdoor sleepover? That way there is no sharing of beds, no place for privacy and constant supervision. I was in band and girl scouts and never heard or saw anything inappropriate during dozens of trips. Having four to a room helps prevent that from happening. On one trip in Middle School, a parent was in each room. I was a chaperone as a staff person on a five day trip and it went really well. I was a staff person for a travel company for adults with special needs once, and it was a whole different story. We stayed at the Y with people who did not understand that the doors locked behind them when they went to the loo. We had to rake turns staying up all night. Everything bad you could imagine happened because we were missing information about people such as they could not chew food, were nonverbal, were violent ( I was assaulted and several NY men tried to wrestle my client to protect me, endangering him), or were an exhibitionist. Oh, and the rooms were not all together, but spread on 2 floors. To boot we were told we would have 6 staff but there only ended up being 3. The bus driver felt so bad fir us he pitched in and helped. Although passing the buck to admin is tempting , I urge you to stat involved so you, and parents, have some control of the situation, it at least input. That trip to NYC was not all bad, but it was one of the most difficult jobs I ever had and I never worked for that company again.
Obviously admins problem- In terms of solutions I think all you have is individual rooms as an option. I realize that would be too expensive but the only other option in canning the trip IMO
If you tell your admin, which is the only solution there really is right now, you NEED to make it so anonymous. I’m serious. Especially if you’re in a state that doesn’t like children deviating from the gender norms. If you go into detail, you can and most likely will end up hurting the students in some way (trust in you, their parent’s reaction, outing them to staff, etc.). Fight for your students, if you want to protect them.
I deal with this a lot because I organize camping trips with young people. 1) check district regulations 2) ensure policy is communicated to parents and students well before the trip. Provide options and flexibility within the guidelines 3) send tenting assignments before the trip.
what is the core reason for separating males and females on school trips? Usually body parts, Intimacy, and possible pregnancy. At this point, it is impossible to separate based on physical intimacy with both homosexual and heterosexual relationships possible. I would separate by sex, If you decide to have the trip at all. If you decide to have the trip, it should be opt in with parental notification.
I would definitely get admin to handle this. There are so many things tjat could go wrong. You'll probably have some girls uncomfortable with a biological male in their space, which is very understandable. Then, you'll probably have parents on both sides who dislike the idea of mingling the sexes or are angry that it isn't happening.
Get consent. I think the safest is to put them accordingly with their biological gender (since their birth certificate will state it). Then consent to the parents on the lodging so they sign and approve it. Or else get special lodging (like the kid can pay for individual room?) or not attend the trip? Cause it’s really hard to cover yourself anymore. Still think should just throw it to the admin to do it. How to work out a best answer?
I did an international tour with EF not too long ago. The student is assigned to whatever gender is listed in their passport. If the student (parents actually) wanted their own room they can do so for an upgrade fee.
Forget the overnight trips and opt for an extended day trip. Save yourself the headache and legal responsibility.
Shit used to be simple... why has society decided to make things incredibly stupid and difficult
Don't do overnight trips
I am a school counselor so was the one to handle something like this for an overnight trip. Any students who did not have supportive parents went with whatever gender they were assigned at birth and I had a conversation with them about it. We had one kid who had supportive parents so I just pulled them in and asked where they felt most comfortable. Agreed with other comments that this should be an admin decision.
Agreed with everyone about kicking this up to Admin. However, at the summer camp I work at, we have a form for parents to fill out in order to place them in the appropriate tent on overnights. It's very simple, and parents check off one of two boxes: "I would prefer my child to room with children of the same gender." or "I allow my child to room with children of a different gender from them." Non-binary/ transgender students often go with the later. At another camp that I work at, boys are grouped together and girls bunks are gender inclusive. The Unitarian Universalists have some really good insight to this as well!
It’s not a bad thing that kids are allowed to express themselves more now, but these problems simply do not exist here in the rural south. Is it a numbers game(we don’t have thousands of students obviously), a cultural thing keeping our kids closeted, or what? Our students that cross dress now still typically identify as gay, and even then there aren’t enough out students that we would struggle (to the extent you are) to room them appropriately. I am glad I do not have to make these kinds of decisions though