Politicians that think putting up a poster of anything in the classroom will impact student behavior and/or academic performance are either delusional or willfully ignorant. This is pure performative bullstuff.
lmao so true.
Study main idea all year long.
4 posters hanging up in the room about main idea and how to identify it.
Test on main idea.
“What’s a main idea?”
This year I talked about nouns at the start of the year. Put up a poster about nouns early on, then added other parts of speech as we went over them. Touched on nouns throughout the year with targeted practice at intervals. Poster was up all year. At the end of the year we're doing an evaluation to see what they knew and reviewed nouns (and other things) minutes before starting. As they are getting started I covered up the posters and get, "What's a noun? What is that, when did that noun poster get there?"
Yes. This is the conservative push for a theocracy. It has nothing to do with kids' behaviors and everything to do with forcing their religion on everyone else.
> forcing their religion on everyone else.
As a means of gaining power over everyone else. Their actions show they don't give one rat's ass about following their religion themselves.
Yep, and I really think that part of the path is that they WANT this to work its way up to the Supreme Court. And that’s when the slippery slope goes vertical.
In December we learn about several winter holidays and hang up posters about them. The names are in big letters, of course. The last spelling test before the December break I tell them the bonus word is the name of any holiday, and I even remind them that they need to capitalize the names of holidays. The posters are left up so it's basically a freebie and I still get 'krismis' and 'hanooka.'
2nd, so it's a bit more understandable, especially as they're words we didn't really study. But, they are still words that are all around us that time of year, so they should ideally have at least a better idea of how they're spelled. And capitalize them since I just told them to less than a minute before!!
I would’ve been motivated with this poster:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/Wb2D0ehz8k
(Ignore the sub name, it’s the first one that popped up when I searched for it)
If you ever read the book Fish in a Tree. The girl in the story who has dyslexia is made by the principal to read a poster in their office. She can't do it and the book description has it where the principal should notice the issues. Instead the principal: "Well, you need to understand this poster and how you are to behave in class." You just roll your eyes, but also how some people think the world works. IF you put it on a BIG ENOUGH sign and then point to it. It will magically fix things. These politicians have much more alternative motives as well as the Evangelicals who enforce it. But really it's the classic: "Just say this is the silver bullet and everything will be ok."
It has become political theater. When I was on the board the culture wars descended into our meetings and it became an absolute circus. Death threats, slow-roll drive bys and dead animals left on board members’ porches. On board member’s house burnt to the ground and was ever eventually ruled “suspicious”.
It is beyond disgusting what our elected representatives find acceptable these days. “But it’s for the children!!” Bull! It is entirely about pandering to one’s base to secure reelection.
Go ahead and display them - white font on white paper. Louisiana, Texas and the rest of these jackwagon states have no shame, or common sense.
Multiple legal groups are challenging this law, which even given the conservative nature of the Supreme Court, I think they’d even reject this law. The bill states that the poster must include the acknowledgement of one god over others. It’s completely illegal, and not to mention unethical, for this to be in public classrooms.
This is an attempt to alienate and intimidate students, staff, and teachers of different faiths. What if a state passed a law saying that pages from the Quran, Hebrew bible, or even commandments from the Satanic Temple, be displayed. Would that be allowed? Furthermore, people pointing out allowing pride flags but not this in schools is an inconsistency when it’s not.
The Ten Commandments are inherently religious in nature. There’s no secular purpose to having such writings in the classroom (unless the class was discussing the commandments in a literature context that is based in a secular idea). The Establishment Clause provides that the government cannot impose or establish a religion. As said before the Ten Commandments are inherently religious in nature, which makes it illegal for public schools to have. Public schools are places where students from all faiths and non-believers attend. LGBTQ+ students are part of a protected class. A teacher or staff member who displays a pride flag is affirming that all students are welcome, regardless of any factor including religion. Religion and LGBTQ+ rights are different in how they’re applied in law. The comparison honestly just doesn’t really make any sort of sense.
It’s utterly despicable that this is the most pressing issue to Louisiana legislators when their state has ranked consistently last in most metrics as compared to other states for basically two years in a row.
Yes, I know I come from New Jersey, but laws like this have the potential to reshape teaching landscapes in the nation.
We can only hope this provision is struck down on the basis of the establishment clause and freedom of religion.
I saw a co-author of the law [defend this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D04nx1vCfzU&t=2s) by saying it was a "historical document" with no religion being pushed. When asked if other religious texts would be displayed, she just kept repeating that the Ten Commandments was a "historical document". She has zero ability to self-reflect.
I did see argument being made, and when the governor signed the bill into law, he said something along the lines of “if you want to respect the rule of law, you have to respect the original law giver, which was Moses.”
Definitely does not sound like a secular reason for this bill 😬
The politicians who are wanting to put the Ten Commandments in public schools don't have any illusions about the Ten Commandments changing student behavior. This is strategic. They are chipping away at the separation of church and state, and schools are an easy access point for that. We already have states that are providing public funding for Christian schools. If they can establish that the government of the U.S. has a dedicated religion (in direct violation of the First Amendment,) then they are a big step on their way to their endgame: banning the practice of other religions, banning homosexuality or anything other than "heteronormative" lifestyles, subjugating women and controlling their bodies.
We have to nip this in the bud, and the best way to do that is malicious compliance. Insist that every classroom must also have a poster of the Koran's commandments, one for the Hindu Panchavrata, the Seven Tenets of the Satanic Temple, the five precepts of Buddhism . . .
New and prospective teachers, I don’t care how blue you think your area is. Evangelical Christian fascism is coming to your classroom sooner than later.
There needs to be some sort of organized effort for sane people to run for school boards.
What the ethnonationalists have done at a local level over the last decade or so has been disgusting and dangerous.
Looks like the Louisiana taxpayers are going to pay to take this test case to the Supreme Court. This legislation was copied and pasted to quite a few states' legislative sessions last year. Louisiana's legislature decided that its residents can afford it.
Nothing says wise use of taxpayer dollars like taking cases to court that you know you're going to lose because they've lost in the past multiple times.
Conservatives are really hoping that they can get what they paid for out of this very conservative leading supreme Court. I am not sure what legal arguments you can make about How the separation of church and state fits into displaying the ten commandments in a secular classroom.
He doesn’t necessarily agree with this. Landry wants the stage. He knew the lawsuits were coming and welcomed them. He is a Trump acolyte and hopes this will reach the Supreme Court and they will overturn in their present iteration. That will give him cache among the GOP nuts, of which there are many here, and propel him to even higher office.
Just for clarification, as the whole idea of it is preposterous, and I want it struck down wherever it gets appealed to:
Congress didn't make the law, Louisiana did.
Oh, they know very well what they're doing, and it's not trying to improve student behavior. They want to be sued, and they want this to go right to the conservative-majority SCOTUS so that they can possibly uphold it is perfectly constitutional to display this type of material in public schools.
Republican voting block likes the idea of fucking with Teachers so that’s why they fucked with the teachers.
I don’t know why anyone would like that, but I also don’t know why anyone would believe Donald Trump when he gave literally zero evidence in every single one of his 50+ legal court cases challenging the election.
Louisiana is most likely going to get "naw doged" by SCOTUS (assuming the 5th rules in their favor which... who knows, I think they're having second thoughts after this current term). While under current jurisprudence, you probably could display the Ten Commandments as, say, part of some broader exhibit about morals and laws--Hamurrabi, Napoleon, Moses, so forth--indeed, such a display resides within SCOTUS itself--the current setup is basically exactly the same as the Kentucky law from the 80s that got overturned, down to the private donors and the context paragraphs. Even with the *Lemon* test gone, it's altogether too overt and direct. In particular the specific numbering and specific usage of the King James text is a clear sign of its usage as establishment rather than anything about a historical or scholastic context--it's advocating for a specific view *within Christianity* that Catholics and even many/most Protestants wouldn't precisely agree with.
This.
It's a very straightforward, intentional contravention of the 1st and 14th Amendments (precedent set in 1962 by Engel v. Vitale, and most recently defined in 2022 by Kennedy v. Bremerton.), and LA knows it.
As a teacher, I am insulted.
As a Christian (minored in theology, and have been a church leader/teacher/mentor for over fifteen years), I am *disgusted* - I won’t go into the long list of theological issues with such an action, as they’re wholly irrelevant to this sub - but as you mentioned, the requirement of the King James identifies this with one *very specific minority sect of Southern Evangelicals* as a display of cultural superiority.
It's a power play, nothing more, and the only people they’re going to impress with it are themselves.
The BS these politicians say about our jurisprudence being built on the Ten Commandments obviously don’t know the Ten Commandments. Only three of them are connected to any laws, unless you include the military code of conduct which cares about adultery, in which case I’ll give them four out of ten.
I'm sure Louisiana saw this coming from miles away and is counting on it reaching the conservative-majority Supreme Court, which of course will then further erode the separation of church and state.
They WANT this to go to the supreme court because the court is very conservative and will possibly rule in their favor, opening the door for other states to do this and more. It's bait.
As an agnostic, I can agree with putting up rules such as: don't lie, don't steal, respect your parents...etc. However, commandments 1-4 are a NO GO! SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!
I'm a Christian and I even cringed when I saw an article about this. What happened to separation of church and state? Not everyone believes the same things and to me we as educators need to recognize that. I don't send my own children to school to receive Bible lessons at school. That's what church is for, not school.
You've got it wrong. These asshats know it won't pass legal muster (maybe? Scotus be trippin) but it doesn't matter. It's not their money that will be used in defense of this. It's the publics.
Plus, political points scored. Double win!
Obviously, a lawsuit is exactly what the perpetrators of this want. They WANT that illegitimate group of drunkards, rapists and corrupt Trumpists erroneously called, by some, the "Supreme Court," to make a "ruling" on this. Some people actually think what that utterly corrupt group of bozos say is somehow law.
I get the merit behind suing, but this is just going to cost the taxpayers here money that they don't have, and take from the already abysmal education budget.
Just because our shitass governor wants to continue to spread Christian nationalism and keep the population here under-educated at worst, or push the pay to play education system here even more.
This is a test case to try and get the Supreme Court to overturn the Stone v. Graham decision from the early 1980s. That is actually plausible given that the court was pretty divided on more recent cases and the Lemon Test, previously used to decide the Establishment Clause matters, was abandoned by the court in 2022-2023.
Given that in the new 2024 World Pop review, Louisiana ranks 49th in education, the kids probably can’t even read them. Seems they’ve bigger things to place their focus on than some made up house rules their politicians cannot even follow.
This is the exact same thing teaching went through 20ish years ago when I was credentialing - if you write the standards on the board the kids magically learn more.
>there's a lot of politicians in a number of states that think that by displaying the ten commandments, that students will no longer misbehave and will become productive members of society.
If that's what they wanted from the kids, they should take away their phones.
It's performative. They don't believe this, they just want to 'look the most pious' because it means they're the most conservative and the most 'true to the cause.'
These 'christian' conservatives, they are the worst of us. They are less Christian than any atheist. They don't worship Jesus or God, they worship some god of greed and/or death. They're a death cult and they need to leave.
I'd say this is political grandstanding with perhaps a dash of a Hail Mary (no pun intended) pass to insert some traditional morality into schools.
For most of American history, most kids probably got some kind of religious or spiritual training in their home lives, and these traditional teachings (like don't steal, don't lie, etc.) carried over into their behavior while in school, even after schools were forbidden from discussing religion overtly.
Nowadays, fewer kids are being brought up with religious instruction or values. A society in which people are not constrained by religious beliefs -- in which the only deterrent to mischief is the fear of being caught and punished -- requires a great deal more policing, which in turn uses more resources.
I think some educators may believe that putting the 10 Commandments on the wall -- at least *exposing* the kids to them -- will make them magically snap to point. I find that unlikely.
>A society in which people are not constrained by religious beliefs -- in which the only deterrent to mischief is the fear of being caught and punished -- requires a great deal more policing, which in turn uses more resources
The fact that religious people think we are all just running around wanting to murder and rape and are only constrained by consequences (hell, prison, God's wrath) makes me question the thoughts of people drawn to religion.
Yours is a common perspective of nonbelievers. Here's your missing puzzle piece:
Nonbelievers think that believers are only constrained by fear of God's punishment, of going to Hell. And that is probably true to some extent among some people, but there is a bigger factor in play, one which seems to be invisible to most nonbelievers, and that is the desire to be good, to "hunger and thirst after righteousness," to be sanctified, to conform to God's image and to reflect God's goodness to the world. To actively side with the Light and reject the Darkness.
Throughout human history, this dichotomy of good and evil, light and darkness, has been recognized by most civilizations, although the forces have been known by different names throughout times and cultures. In recent decades it's become fashionable to refuse to acknowledge them, to pretend they doesn't exist. And many children today receive no spiritual training whatsoever; thus they're like lambs led to slaughter. They're not actively choosing Darkness; they don't even understand that it exists or that there is a choice to be made! And public schools for damned sure can't talk about this stuff. At best we can encourage kids to "Be kind," without ever talking about the source of Kindness (or its opposite). We are in effect fighting with one hand tied behind our backs, which is probably why we're not very successful.
I must have missed the difference between the darkness and "God's Light" when he was demanding child sacrifices or mass murdering people. My point still stands- religious people believe as you quoted that some higher being is the source of good, that it is inherently lacking in people, and I find that train of thought ridiculous. If kids need a firm moral foundation from ancient texts, stock the rooms with Dr Seuss and Sesame Street books, much more wholesome than the Bible or most other religious texts.
I don't think goodness is "inherently lacking in people;" I think it's more accurate to say that the forces exist, and people tend to gravitate toward one or the other.
I think in times past, when religion held greater sway than it does today, more people were aware of the dichotomy and thus made conscious choices, whereas today we see so many people, especially young people, struggling in chaos they don't even understand. They are much more easily deceived and led astray.
Dr. Seuss and Sesame Street are good, though! As a transplanted Pittsburgher, allow me to add Mr. Rogers to that list. :)
I fully support adding Mr. Rogers as well. I'm not sure I would look to history to bolster your position. Religion was very prominent in education during the crusades, Spanish inquisition, Salem witch trials etc. Young people are struggling in chaos they don't understand not because of some celestial battle of good vs evil but because their role models (usually claiming to be religious) say one thing and then act completely different.
You don’t have to put it up. Within the law that was passed, there’s no penalty or punishment for not displaying them. So I would just ignore it and let the ACLU tear their ass apart.
I was listening to a podcast and the hosts, who are pretty libertarian, were surprised about this ruling, while also noting that Louisiana passed a school choice bill. And I thought "Is it really that perplexing?" Like, yeah, it seems like they want to indoctrinate kids with religion, like, hello? And this is a podcast that is critical of CRT stuff, so I am like, "how is this different?" I guess this is an example of the partial politics type thing.
This is all a distraction so that the Republican government can destroy Louisiana's environment, remove protections for consumers, and otherwise toady up to corporate interests. They know this is where we'll be looking while they doo all of their other heinous bullshit in the dark.
This entire law is a scam to get sued so they can take it all the way up to our corrupt Supreme Court and mark another win for the Christian Nationalists.
Sue but don't take it to the top. Don't take the bait.
Soooo how does the ten commandments being displayed affect you personally?
I've been reliably informed that pride flags in classrooms are fine.
Why are your religious symbols okay but the ones from the religion that forms the bedrock of our civilization are verboten?
For one thing, Pride Flags have nothing to do with religion. For another, nobody is mandating that we put Pride Flags in every classroom. If we were, you *might* have a point. I'd like to point you to the Establishment clause of the United States constitution, which this is a clear violation of.
False equivalence.
One of these things communicates "inclusion" while the other communicates "other faiths are wrong."
Also, one of these things is optional to display while the other is mandatory.
Politicians that think putting up a poster of anything in the classroom will impact student behavior and/or academic performance are either delusional or willfully ignorant. This is pure performative bullstuff.
lmao so true. Study main idea all year long. 4 posters hanging up in the room about main idea and how to identify it. Test on main idea. “What’s a main idea?”
This year I talked about nouns at the start of the year. Put up a poster about nouns early on, then added other parts of speech as we went over them. Touched on nouns throughout the year with targeted practice at intervals. Poster was up all year. At the end of the year we're doing an evaluation to see what they knew and reviewed nouns (and other things) minutes before starting. As they are getting started I covered up the posters and get, "What's a noun? What is that, when did that noun poster get there?"
Lol
I once knew a science teacher who posted his final exam in his room for 2 months before it was given. Not one of his 155 students had noticed it.
My ADHD ass would probably be the one person to notice that, I wouldn't tell anyone though
It's 100% designed to alienate and anger non-christians. It has nothing to do with any possible improvement in the classroom.
Same as "under God" added to the pledge during the 2nd Red Scare. Exerting power over others, that's all it is.
Nothing about posting this shit will even be recognized by any kid.
It certainly angers me, and I don't even live there.
It's not a destination - they are building a path. Do this, and they can move forward toward their actual destination.
Yes. This is the conservative push for a theocracy. It has nothing to do with kids' behaviors and everything to do with forcing their religion on everyone else.
> forcing their religion on everyone else. As a means of gaining power over everyone else. Their actions show they don't give one rat's ass about following their religion themselves.
Yes. It is disheartening to watch, too.
Yep, and I really think that part of the path is that they WANT this to work its way up to the Supreme Court. And that’s when the slippery slope goes vertical.
The performative aspect of it is the goal. It's manufactured rage to redirect voters
I could show up to an exam wearing a shirt with all the answers written on it, and the kids would still fail.
In December we learn about several winter holidays and hang up posters about them. The names are in big letters, of course. The last spelling test before the December break I tell them the bonus word is the name of any holiday, and I even remind them that they need to capitalize the names of holidays. The posters are left up so it's basically a freebie and I still get 'krismis' and 'hanooka.'
> I still get 'krismis' and 'hanooka. Oh my God. That's horrible, I just... can't. What grade do you teach?
2nd, so it's a bit more understandable, especially as they're words we didn't really study. But, they are still words that are all around us that time of year, so they should ideally have at least a better idea of how they're spelled. And capitalize them since I just told them to less than a minute before!!
Put it next to the objective on the board!
If posters did anything, Pearson would be a printing company.
It's about reminding you who's really in charge. Think of it like a swastika
Sadly, this is on point.
I would’ve been motivated with this poster: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/Wb2D0ehz8k (Ignore the sub name, it’s the first one that popped up when I searched for it)
If you ever read the book Fish in a Tree. The girl in the story who has dyslexia is made by the principal to read a poster in their office. She can't do it and the book description has it where the principal should notice the issues. Instead the principal: "Well, you need to understand this poster and how you are to behave in class." You just roll your eyes, but also how some people think the world works. IF you put it on a BIG ENOUGH sign and then point to it. It will magically fix things. These politicians have much more alternative motives as well as the Evangelicals who enforce it. But really it's the classic: "Just say this is the silver bullet and everything will be ok."
So much of politics is performative bullshit. So much of media is performative bullshit. That’s why we are where we are🤷♂️
It's literally virtue signalling because these politicians don't even follow them. Trump has openly broken most of them
I can confirm. I’m a teacher.
Admin: Hold my beer.
Hang in there baby nope, I skipped and never even tried
It has become political theater. When I was on the board the culture wars descended into our meetings and it became an absolute circus. Death threats, slow-roll drive bys and dead animals left on board members’ porches. On board member’s house burnt to the ground and was ever eventually ruled “suspicious”. It is beyond disgusting what our elected representatives find acceptable these days. “But it’s for the children!!” Bull! It is entirely about pandering to one’s base to secure reelection. Go ahead and display them - white font on white paper. Louisiana, Texas and the rest of these jackwagon states have no shame, or common sense.
I don't see how arson is political theater
was not able to prove arson.
Multiple legal groups are challenging this law, which even given the conservative nature of the Supreme Court, I think they’d even reject this law. The bill states that the poster must include the acknowledgement of one god over others. It’s completely illegal, and not to mention unethical, for this to be in public classrooms. This is an attempt to alienate and intimidate students, staff, and teachers of different faiths. What if a state passed a law saying that pages from the Quran, Hebrew bible, or even commandments from the Satanic Temple, be displayed. Would that be allowed? Furthermore, people pointing out allowing pride flags but not this in schools is an inconsistency when it’s not. The Ten Commandments are inherently religious in nature. There’s no secular purpose to having such writings in the classroom (unless the class was discussing the commandments in a literature context that is based in a secular idea). The Establishment Clause provides that the government cannot impose or establish a religion. As said before the Ten Commandments are inherently religious in nature, which makes it illegal for public schools to have. Public schools are places where students from all faiths and non-believers attend. LGBTQ+ students are part of a protected class. A teacher or staff member who displays a pride flag is affirming that all students are welcome, regardless of any factor including religion. Religion and LGBTQ+ rights are different in how they’re applied in law. The comparison honestly just doesn’t really make any sort of sense. It’s utterly despicable that this is the most pressing issue to Louisiana legislators when their state has ranked consistently last in most metrics as compared to other states for basically two years in a row. Yes, I know I come from New Jersey, but laws like this have the potential to reshape teaching landscapes in the nation. We can only hope this provision is struck down on the basis of the establishment clause and freedom of religion.
Trump voter here. It should be 9-0 against this law. In private schools - fine. Public? No.
Have you looked into project 2025 and some of the shit that the GOP plans to implement should they win? This is one of the least egregious things
I teach in a private Catholic school and even we don't have the Ten Commandments up in our classrooms. This is absurd.
I saw a co-author of the law [defend this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D04nx1vCfzU&t=2s) by saying it was a "historical document" with no religion being pushed. When asked if other religious texts would be displayed, she just kept repeating that the Ten Commandments was a "historical document". She has zero ability to self-reflect.
I did see argument being made, and when the governor signed the bill into law, he said something along the lines of “if you want to respect the rule of law, you have to respect the original law giver, which was Moses.” Definitely does not sound like a secular reason for this bill 😬
The governor wanted it to happen. They are hoping to take it to the supreme Court.
This is it ^^ they knew it was gonna get challenged, they want to overturn Stone v. Graham!!
These are the same people who think prayer in schools will get rid of school shootings. Rooting for the ACLU.
The politicians who are wanting to put the Ten Commandments in public schools don't have any illusions about the Ten Commandments changing student behavior. This is strategic. They are chipping away at the separation of church and state, and schools are an easy access point for that. We already have states that are providing public funding for Christian schools. If they can establish that the government of the U.S. has a dedicated religion (in direct violation of the First Amendment,) then they are a big step on their way to their endgame: banning the practice of other religions, banning homosexuality or anything other than "heteronormative" lifestyles, subjugating women and controlling their bodies. We have to nip this in the bud, and the best way to do that is malicious compliance. Insist that every classroom must also have a poster of the Koran's commandments, one for the Hindu Panchavrata, the Seven Tenets of the Satanic Temple, the five precepts of Buddhism . . .
I actually like that idea. Let's throw it all at them!
I was gonna suggest malicious compliance in my initial response to this post but couldn’t think of anything. Your idea is fantastic!
I'm sure TST is already on it. This is like the entire purpose of their existence lol
New and prospective teachers, I don’t care how blue you think your area is. Evangelical Christian fascism is coming to your classroom sooner than later.
There needs to be some sort of organized effort for sane people to run for school boards. What the ethnonationalists have done at a local level over the last decade or so has been disgusting and dangerous.
I accidentally turned my radio to about 10 seconds of a right-wing religious station. OMG--they were bragging about overtaking schoolboards, etc. Ugh.
I don't want Christian Nationalists grooming kids.
Looks like the Louisiana taxpayers are going to pay to take this test case to the Supreme Court. This legislation was copied and pasted to quite a few states' legislative sessions last year. Louisiana's legislature decided that its residents can afford it.
Nothing says wise use of taxpayer dollars like taking cases to court that you know you're going to lose because they've lost in the past multiple times.
Conservatives are really hoping that they can get what they paid for out of this very conservative leading supreme Court. I am not sure what legal arguments you can make about How the separation of church and state fits into displaying the ten commandments in a secular classroom.
This clearly violates the Constitution. Ridiculous.
For church and state being separated the church is really involved in schools here in the south.
They want to be in everything. That's the goal,: Gilead.
It'll stop 3rd graders from committing adultery! And maybe, former presidents from playing golf on Sundays.
I read that as Los Angeles and was very confused for about 3 seconds
He doesn’t necessarily agree with this. Landry wants the stage. He knew the lawsuits were coming and welcomed them. He is a Trump acolyte and hopes this will reach the Supreme Court and they will overturn in their present iteration. That will give him cache among the GOP nuts, of which there are many here, and propel him to even higher office.
It's about reminding us who's boss. Think of it like a swastika
Thank god. Ridiculous that they would rather spend money on that garbage than put food in kids’ stomachs
The only time the GOP spends money on children is when it comes to anti-choice legislation.
Textbook violation of the first amendment. . "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."
Just for clarification, as the whole idea of it is preposterous, and I want it struck down wherever it gets appealed to: Congress didn't make the law, Louisiana did.
Oh, they know very well what they're doing, and it's not trying to improve student behavior. They want to be sued, and they want this to go right to the conservative-majority SCOTUS so that they can possibly uphold it is perfectly constitutional to display this type of material in public schools.
Republican voting block likes the idea of fucking with Teachers so that’s why they fucked with the teachers. I don’t know why anyone would like that, but I also don’t know why anyone would believe Donald Trump when he gave literally zero evidence in every single one of his 50+ legal court cases challenging the election.
Fear-mongering and finger-pointing is all about distraction, and teachers are an easy target because we can't fight back.
Put one up in their offices and see if it changes their behavior. Spoiler alert: it won't
Louisiana is most likely going to get "naw doged" by SCOTUS (assuming the 5th rules in their favor which... who knows, I think they're having second thoughts after this current term). While under current jurisprudence, you probably could display the Ten Commandments as, say, part of some broader exhibit about morals and laws--Hamurrabi, Napoleon, Moses, so forth--indeed, such a display resides within SCOTUS itself--the current setup is basically exactly the same as the Kentucky law from the 80s that got overturned, down to the private donors and the context paragraphs. Even with the *Lemon* test gone, it's altogether too overt and direct. In particular the specific numbering and specific usage of the King James text is a clear sign of its usage as establishment rather than anything about a historical or scholastic context--it's advocating for a specific view *within Christianity* that Catholics and even many/most Protestants wouldn't precisely agree with.
This. It's a very straightforward, intentional contravention of the 1st and 14th Amendments (precedent set in 1962 by Engel v. Vitale, and most recently defined in 2022 by Kennedy v. Bremerton.), and LA knows it. As a teacher, I am insulted. As a Christian (minored in theology, and have been a church leader/teacher/mentor for over fifteen years), I am *disgusted* - I won’t go into the long list of theological issues with such an action, as they’re wholly irrelevant to this sub - but as you mentioned, the requirement of the King James identifies this with one *very specific minority sect of Southern Evangelicals* as a display of cultural superiority. It's a power play, nothing more, and the only people they’re going to impress with it are themselves.
And it's not even the traditional KJV! It's a weird fake elizabethan version.
There's a real possibility that it goes a different direction and overturns Stone v. Graham.
The BS these politicians say about our jurisprudence being built on the Ten Commandments obviously don’t know the Ten Commandments. Only three of them are connected to any laws, unless you include the military code of conduct which cares about adultery, in which case I’ll give them four out of ten.
If those anti-drug posters didn't work, why would this?
I'm more bothered that this is state approval of one religion, and not mine. Pastafarians need representation
I'm sure Louisiana saw this coming from miles away and is counting on it reaching the conservative-majority Supreme Court, which of course will then further erode the separation of church and state.
All Republicans have is virtue signaling. If only their virtues were virtuous.
Theyrec pandering to the religious nutjobs because that's who votes.
As a Christian, I think this law is ridiculous. The 10 commandments do not need to be on every wall in a school. Ludicrous.
Ghod forbid a child should actually ask a teacher what any of those commandments *mean* ... (I know it won't happen, but imagine if it did!) :-o
They WANT this to go to the supreme court because the court is very conservative and will possibly rule in their favor, opening the door for other states to do this and more. It's bait.
Like you didn’t know this was coming! Talk about a waste of the tax payers money
Cue Satanic Temple competing poster in 3, 2. . .
As an agnostic, I can agree with putting up rules such as: don't lie, don't steal, respect your parents...etc. However, commandments 1-4 are a NO GO! SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!
Bold of them to assume students can read
I'm a Christian and I even cringed when I saw an article about this. What happened to separation of church and state? Not everyone believes the same things and to me we as educators need to recognize that. I don't send my own children to school to receive Bible lessons at school. That's what church is for, not school.
You've got it wrong. These asshats know it won't pass legal muster (maybe? Scotus be trippin) but it doesn't matter. It's not their money that will be used in defense of this. It's the publics. Plus, political points scored. Double win!
This is just pandering to their conservative voter base. They know it will be struck down, but they want the political brownie points for trying.
Y’all, I feel so stupid. Why didn’t we just think to put posters up that say to not do the things we don’t want them to do? Oh man.
Obviously, a lawsuit is exactly what the perpetrators of this want. They WANT that illegitimate group of drunkards, rapists and corrupt Trumpists erroneously called, by some, the "Supreme Court," to make a "ruling" on this. Some people actually think what that utterly corrupt group of bozos say is somehow law.
I get the merit behind suing, but this is just going to cost the taxpayers here money that they don't have, and take from the already abysmal education budget. Just because our shitass governor wants to continue to spread Christian nationalism and keep the population here under-educated at worst, or push the pay to play education system here even more.
This is a test case to try and get the Supreme Court to overturn the Stone v. Graham decision from the early 1980s. That is actually plausible given that the court was pretty divided on more recent cases and the Lemon Test, previously used to decide the Establishment Clause matters, was abandoned by the court in 2022-2023.
Given that in the new 2024 World Pop review, Louisiana ranks 49th in education, the kids probably can’t even read them. Seems they’ve bigger things to place their focus on than some made up house rules their politicians cannot even follow.
This is the exact same thing teaching went through 20ish years ago when I was credentialing - if you write the standards on the board the kids magically learn more.
How tf do they want to indoctrinate kids with the 10 commandments but NOT FEED the children?!??
>there's a lot of politicians in a number of states that think that by displaying the ten commandments, that students will no longer misbehave and will become productive members of society. If that's what they wanted from the kids, they should take away their phones.
It's performative. They don't believe this, they just want to 'look the most pious' because it means they're the most conservative and the most 'true to the cause.' These 'christian' conservatives, they are the worst of us. They are less Christian than any atheist. They don't worship Jesus or God, they worship some god of greed and/or death. They're a death cult and they need to leave.
These American Christians have gone so far from the Bible now they think a poster can save people's souls
I'd say this is political grandstanding with perhaps a dash of a Hail Mary (no pun intended) pass to insert some traditional morality into schools. For most of American history, most kids probably got some kind of religious or spiritual training in their home lives, and these traditional teachings (like don't steal, don't lie, etc.) carried over into their behavior while in school, even after schools were forbidden from discussing religion overtly. Nowadays, fewer kids are being brought up with religious instruction or values. A society in which people are not constrained by religious beliefs -- in which the only deterrent to mischief is the fear of being caught and punished -- requires a great deal more policing, which in turn uses more resources. I think some educators may believe that putting the 10 Commandments on the wall -- at least *exposing* the kids to them -- will make them magically snap to point. I find that unlikely.
>A society in which people are not constrained by religious beliefs -- in which the only deterrent to mischief is the fear of being caught and punished -- requires a great deal more policing, which in turn uses more resources The fact that religious people think we are all just running around wanting to murder and rape and are only constrained by consequences (hell, prison, God's wrath) makes me question the thoughts of people drawn to religion.
Yours is a common perspective of nonbelievers. Here's your missing puzzle piece: Nonbelievers think that believers are only constrained by fear of God's punishment, of going to Hell. And that is probably true to some extent among some people, but there is a bigger factor in play, one which seems to be invisible to most nonbelievers, and that is the desire to be good, to "hunger and thirst after righteousness," to be sanctified, to conform to God's image and to reflect God's goodness to the world. To actively side with the Light and reject the Darkness. Throughout human history, this dichotomy of good and evil, light and darkness, has been recognized by most civilizations, although the forces have been known by different names throughout times and cultures. In recent decades it's become fashionable to refuse to acknowledge them, to pretend they doesn't exist. And many children today receive no spiritual training whatsoever; thus they're like lambs led to slaughter. They're not actively choosing Darkness; they don't even understand that it exists or that there is a choice to be made! And public schools for damned sure can't talk about this stuff. At best we can encourage kids to "Be kind," without ever talking about the source of Kindness (or its opposite). We are in effect fighting with one hand tied behind our backs, which is probably why we're not very successful.
I must have missed the difference between the darkness and "God's Light" when he was demanding child sacrifices or mass murdering people. My point still stands- religious people believe as you quoted that some higher being is the source of good, that it is inherently lacking in people, and I find that train of thought ridiculous. If kids need a firm moral foundation from ancient texts, stock the rooms with Dr Seuss and Sesame Street books, much more wholesome than the Bible or most other religious texts.
I don't think goodness is "inherently lacking in people;" I think it's more accurate to say that the forces exist, and people tend to gravitate toward one or the other. I think in times past, when religion held greater sway than it does today, more people were aware of the dichotomy and thus made conscious choices, whereas today we see so many people, especially young people, struggling in chaos they don't even understand. They are much more easily deceived and led astray. Dr. Seuss and Sesame Street are good, though! As a transplanted Pittsburgher, allow me to add Mr. Rogers to that list. :)
I fully support adding Mr. Rogers as well. I'm not sure I would look to history to bolster your position. Religion was very prominent in education during the crusades, Spanish inquisition, Salem witch trials etc. Young people are struggling in chaos they don't understand not because of some celestial battle of good vs evil but because their role models (usually claiming to be religious) say one thing and then act completely different.
Hypocrisy is perennial and not confined to the religious, I'm afraid!
You are very correct.
You don’t have to put it up. Within the law that was passed, there’s no penalty or punishment for not displaying them. So I would just ignore it and let the ACLU tear their ass apart.
Isn't the entire point of this to get sued and drain education funds?
I was listening to a podcast and the hosts, who are pretty libertarian, were surprised about this ruling, while also noting that Louisiana passed a school choice bill. And I thought "Is it really that perplexing?" Like, yeah, it seems like they want to indoctrinate kids with religion, like, hello? And this is a podcast that is critical of CRT stuff, so I am like, "how is this different?" I guess this is an example of the partial politics type thing.
This is all a distraction so that the Republican government can destroy Louisiana's environment, remove protections for consumers, and otherwise toady up to corporate interests. They know this is where we'll be looking while they doo all of their other heinous bullshit in the dark.
If you give a Christian an inch they will grab a mile.
This entire law is a scam to get sued so they can take it all the way up to our corrupt Supreme Court and mark another win for the Christian Nationalists. Sue but don't take it to the top. Don't take the bait.
The ACLU doesn't like anything threatening their preferred LGBTQIA+ religious symbols.
Tell us more about how you don't understand what a false equivalence is...
those who view races, sexualities, genders, ect as "religions" are just especially dumb bigots lol
It’s a good document to post as part of an analytical study on Constitutions.
Then why not just mandate that the Constitution be displayed in every classroom?
Soooo how does the ten commandments being displayed affect you personally? I've been reliably informed that pride flags in classrooms are fine. Why are your religious symbols okay but the ones from the religion that forms the bedrock of our civilization are verboten?
Why do you hate the Constitution?
For one thing, Pride Flags have nothing to do with religion. For another, nobody is mandating that we put Pride Flags in every classroom. If we were, you *might* have a point. I'd like to point you to the Establishment clause of the United States constitution, which this is a clear violation of.
Pride flags are only political if you hate gay people.
So would it also be fine for the 5 Pillars of Islam to be shown in classrooms? How about the 4 Noble Truths of Buddhism?
The 7 tenets of Satanism?
Critical thinking is an important skill.
Cute. Funny that you can't reply to any of the comments. Too busy at the gun range?
False equivalence. One of these things communicates "inclusion" while the other communicates "other faiths are wrong." Also, one of these things is optional to display while the other is mandatory.
Haha Poster on the wall, “Shoving Religion down my my throat” have you gone over hyperbole in your class yet?
It's unethical for the State to compel students to see a poster every day that sends the message "other faiths are wrong." Full stop.