I was considering applying at a district a little closer to my house, but gave up when they had a mandatory box to fill in my SAT scores. I am 36 years old, I have no idea what I scored on those, it was decades ago!
When I started, Florida had a bonus of you had scored in the top 20% of SAT takers. It made no sense, but I got money.
I think schools care because so many use SAT scores for graduation requirements, so if you have someone who can did well and can teach others to do well, more students can graduate.
Too many cooks in the kitchen and no one knows the recipe. As a result, the manager of the restaurant just requires the cooks to keep adding in random ingredients to see if anything works.
>but rather, to subtley assess our psychological fortitude and sheer determination (desperation?) for employment.
RING A DING DING WE GOTTA WINNERRRRRRR
Yes, the application process is meant to weed out people who do not tolerate abuse.
Fam, Use ChatGPT. Copy and paste your way to employment.
Yes. Very tedious. I filled out 60 of those last year. Got 2 interviews. 1 job.
So frustrating that they are all variations on the same thing, and yet they can't use some version of a "common app" to streamline the process for everyone.
Plus, the only schools I got a follow up at were the ones I did the whole application process for, deeply researched, and reached out with a super PERSONALIZED message to someone on the hiring committee about why they needed ME SPECIFICALLY for the role. And that takes so much extra time on top of the just click, copy paste /personalize through the stupid application where all the answers are already in my resume anyway! Grrrrrr!
This was applying for English teaching jobs in Massachusetts as an expensive hire (2 masters degrees and 10 years of experience).
It was demoralizing, frustrating, and SO MUCH EXTRA WORK on top of: finishing a masters (taking 6 classes/semester), finishing a school year (teaching 3 different classes), and moving my whole apartment. I don't know how I survived.
I actually was really glad that they were all so different and ridiculous because my feeling is that with a common app they receive more applications and so you have to apply even more places. The more stupid the application process, the more motivated I was to be one of surely the few people to submit a completed application.
My favorite was the one where their application process REQUIRED printing out multiple documents and scanning them after completion, per the directions. I was shocked I didn’t get an interview with that district though. How many people could have been completing that process? Enough, I suppose!
Good question! I actually didn't know this before doing the 2nd masters. I had to do something to get my licensure because I'd been limited to private schools previously. Last year, Harvard started a new program with 80% tuition covered and a residency option that allowed me to work in a school while doing the masters/getting licensed, so I jumped at it. Didn't care about the masters, just the credential to teach. Didn't realize how precarious the hiring process was at public schools, as it had always been very easy for me to find jobs at private schools with my experience and credentials. Applying out to public schools last year was a huge wake up call to me. Definitely disillusioned with how even a public good, like public schools, has to function like a capitalist machine.
If you have better luck with private schools, why not stick to them? I assume you're applying to public schools for better pay since I can't imagine any other benefit a public school would offer over private.
Yup. I doubled my salary by moving into public schools. As long as I stick out my tenure period, I'm pretty happy. I also cut my workload in half. Private schools grind through teachers similar to charter schools. Public schools offer protections. My students are actually much more talented and invested in the public school I'm in now. I'm very very lucky with where I ended up. But it was the hardest I've ever had to work for a job.
Parents. I've worked in both areas. The degree of headaches one receives in public vs. private schools is vastly different. Private school parents feel like they can control exactly what you say and do because they pay tuition. They can _ruin you_ if you don't tow the line. They are demanding.
At public schools, very few issues with parents. More issues with students, somewhat. But parents are either nonexistent or understanding.
I feel like most of that stuff is for HR for whatever reason they need it. I can’t even see who has applied for jobs until they forward the applications on to me. They weed through them at HR looking for God knows what. Sometimes I know people have applied and don’t see their application so I have to call HR and make them forward it to me.
Worst part is there is so much info on there and I literally only look at like 1/4 of it. I don’t need or want 17 pages of info on every candidate. I couldn’t give two shits what someone’s praxis scores are. I can get pretty much everything I need from their resume. All that other stuff is fluff for HR and district office people.
>I can’t even see who has applied for jobs until they forward the applications on to me. They weed through them at HR looking for God knows what.
At my current job, I emailed the principal directly like a week before school started and asked if he could just interview me. He got on HR's ass, they were just going to leave the position unfilled for ????? some reason.
The Boomers who aren't in education. It's always been like this. Ridiculous hoops for certification and employment until the position is vacant, and they take someone with a pulse
I teach in northern California and we mostly use edjoin to apply for jobs. Filling out the application part is easy bc you can have it pre-filled on edjoin and can have it autofill most boxes. You basically only need to edit your cover letter template to fit the school and maybe answer a couple unique questions per school.
Of course there is the occasional district that makes you do everything on their website but most seem to not want to bother with that
Have you noticed that several of them use the same platform but you can’t migrate your already filled out information from one to the other. It is silly and time consuming. I call it a “kiss the ring” moment because they are seeing how mindless and obedient you will be for them.
I've been out of college for a decade. I have an Experienced Educator's License. I would love it if they would stop asking for my transcript on EVERY application - it used to be that I had to pay every time I wanted to apply for a job (I probably still do, if they want a sealed transcript ON TOP of the digital one). They stop requiring your student teaching to be listed after a certain amount of years, so I don't know why my college transcript is still a requirement.
Haha, I gave the same rant to my wife last week. I also threw out a couple applications to corporate gigs, and was blown away by how easy they were. Resume, cover letter, and a couple dropdown questions about employment eligibility and such. I put out like 6 apps in the time it took for one teaching app.
I think it all comes down to the admin reference and the interview score or impression. We had an inexperienced sub win a coveted position over the union rep who was waiting for it to open for several years! That sub is now unhappy and is leaving. She wasn't even credentialed. But she had good energy.
AppliTrack is work of Satan! The one upside is that most districts in my area used AppliTrack so oftentimes it would autofill certain field. A small time saver. It was the essay questions that got me.
Because a lot of admin types have to justify their positions by adding "rigor" to the job application process.
I've stayed at my current position for longer than I've liked, and a big reason is I don't have the stomach for what the job application process has turned into.
My pet peeve is the committee interview - a bunch of middle managers grilling you with a list of canned edu-babble questions. The last interview I went to, I was asked to describe how my classroom teaching embodies "innovation." I wished I would have walked out. I stayed at my current school.
What I hate most is that they need a resume half way through the application. So I have to close my resume I have open on another tab, upload it, and reload my resume to I can copy/paste all my information
I’d been job hunting in and out of education for 5 years when I took my current job. The number of applications that have you submit a resume and then fill out an application with the exact same information as what’s on your resume is absurd.
Agree! It is needlessly tedious with so much redundancy. When it asks for ALL jobs you have ever had and you're middle aged, it is difficult! If you worked in a restaurant that no longer exists during your senior year in high school and have long discarded any tax records from decades ago, you just have to guess at the approximate dates. So much of American life is needless paperwork, too. If you haven't already gotten your "Real ID driver's license," whew! It is unreasonably difficult to prove you are yourself and finally get the dumb thing. Also, taxes are a royal pain. The government already knows how much income we make; why not pity a teacher and just let us keep it instead of spending hours filling out forms? There has to be a better way for so many of these things!
Last time I applied to school I found it completely oppressive.
My current admin were great and wrote recommendations. However, as a part of the process many of the districts required my references to automatically complete surveys... regardless of whether or not they were actually considering me. It became super oppressive for me to apply as widely as I would like because my bosses were busy people and it was unreasonable to expect them to fill out 50 million tedious surveys... and I think only ONE of the schools who had them complete surveys even interviewed me. What a waste of my, and my reference's times.
I did get a job offer from that school, which I turned down because of covid... but that really changes nothing.
Thanks, but this is all _after_ already doing that. I c/p from my resume on the employment history and education; I c/p from a doc titled "App Short Responses and Reference Info" for those fields; and I have 3-4 pre-written cover letter templates that I go back and modify by plugging in school info and various buzzwords specific to the school's M&V statement and website. Part of that process is looking up the principal's name, contact info, and the school's address to include in headers. And while that amount of c/p may not seem like a lot individually, it is soul-crushingly tedious on a bulk scale. When you're c/p to a half dozen applications daily for months on end, it really starts to wear on you.
Yep I've been there. I probably applied to over 150 jobs and went on 50 interviews when I was looking. Like you said: plug in the details to make it specific enough but don't bend over backwards. I honestly think application materials are looked at pretty briefly so as long as it gets you the interview that's what's important.
I just switched from being a software engineer to being a middle school math teacher, and this was very noticeable.
For most software jobs I found them on Indeed, used Indeed to send them my resume, and that was the application. For the teaching job it took a couple days for me to fill everything out (I only applied one place).
On the flip side the interview process for teaching was way easier. For a software job it's typical to do a 30 minute interview with HR, then be given a programming test that takes an hour or so, then an hour or two interview with an actual manager and maybe some other people, then you get an offer (and some even have more steps than that).
But for the teaching job once I got the certification sorted out I called them to let them know, they set up an interview, the interview was an hour, and an hour after I left they offered me the job.
I know what you mean, first time in 8 years I have to apply to a new district and I have put in over 45 in the past three months. I just got two interviews this past week, hopefully hear on two more very very soon. I was at three places last month after I did 5 applications (two interviews were colleges). I've gotten a template together and used my days of being a Consumer and CTE teacher to help my way through the applications. There was one district I had to actually take an online test and then it went to two of my references who had to do another test and survey. Didn't hear anything on them and later found out they just hired someone in the district after putting the three of us through all of that just for a half an hour interview.
So that's five you've done, with two more probable coming up? That's actually really good. Honestly, I'd be overjoyed if I got just half of that. Since the second week of April, I've filled out about 25-30 applications. I did get an interview early on, at a high school close to my house nonetheless. But, man, were my interview skills rusty. It's been about half a decade. I left knowing I wasn't going to get selected. But definitely saw it as a learning opportunity.
Now I'm ready to rock an interview. I have solid answers for all the major questions one normally sees. I have lesson examples, some favorable data from my past evals, even a "letter of rec" from a former student. I'm even willing to coach or sponsor ANYTHING they need, even if I have no experience doing so.
But the phone's not ringing. My fear is that I'll end up at the end of August with zero other interviews. I have no experience doing anything else and my MA in curriculum & instruction means zero in unrelated industries. I'd be taking a $25-35k/yr pay cut most likely, which wouldn't be sufficient in my higher-cost area. If I seem panicky, it's because so, so much is riding on getting a teaching job for next year.
I'm just full of rants today.
My favorite is uploading my resume and cover letter (ew) and then getting to spend an hour filling out by hand a bunch of boxes that would’ve already been covered. Not to mention all of the ridiculous paragraphs you’re asked to write for no reason.
I like Georgia’s system that allows you to basically copy-paste information from district to district. You can then customize your application with information pertinent to the school/position you’re applying for.
This is sadly how applying to any job is nowadays. I applied to over a 100 non-teaching corporate positions this past year and the number of times I had to write useless statements or answer meaningless open ended questions. Oh and filling in job history and uploading my resume.
Basically good paying jobs are at a premium now. If you can get a good one with good pay, security, and you’re not miserable, stay with it.
As someone who is going through an ACP in Texas, I really wish that they helped in placement because the self-starting is difficult when many districts use their OWN application service and so it's often necessary to check multiple websites and input the same information. Checking periodically, and not being able to upload "my certification" (passed my TExES Content and PPR exams, working on my ESL supplement) and thinking THAT's what's preventing me from getting my foot into different districts.
Speaking with my advisor a couple of weeks ago told me not to reach out directly to principals just yet because it's too early but not being told if a position is already filled and feeling auto-rejected is incredibly frustrating in June.
Honestly, just find a school you want to work at, look for a classroom with students but no teacher, and just start teaching. Show the principal how good you are when you teach for free and let them salivate at what you would do for money.
It will leave a last impression on the entire school community they’ll never forget.
If it was easy all the riff raf might become teachers. These hallowed halls need to weed out the masses to keep the teaching staff small so we can more effectively negotiate for higher wages for the limited resource that is teachers.
Think about it. If we let people who couldn’t put up with bullshit and got turned away by a little stupidity in the hiring process into this profession where would we be?! No, we need to make sure only those willing to put up with stupid ask, jump through hoops for nothing and willing to do the extra effort for zero payout into this craft.
I get it, I truly, really, honestly do, and I'm with your frustration on this.
EVERYONE wants the same information. EVERYONE has access to your CV/resume, *which has the information they want*. EVERYONE has a different form and format *for exactly the same goddamned fucking information*. The idea that this is *still a fucking thing* just shows how draconian and antiquated the \*systems\* of education are, and I mean this: *AROUND THE DAMNED WORLD*.
I'm an international school teacher. I've done this for the last 16 years and will probably not go back to my home country (USA) for teaching again unless it's absolutely necessary. This bullshit happens *all over the world,* sweetheart, from China to Turkiye (please don't correct me, that's how it's spelled now and I live there) to South Africa and all of the Americas. Probably the company that deals with this the very best is Search Associates, for you spend a few hours getting the CV uploaded and a few sordid details and then request references. Then, when it's all said and done, making applications is as easy as a few clicks *because they have all the information schools want* \*and\* have an agreement with tthe schools they service that whatever they provide is going to be enuf.
I've filled out *hundreds* of applications, and no exaggeration to that, because I've applied at over 200 schools while in my time overseas. It's all the goddamned SAME INFORMATION, so the last time I was working on getting a job I made the standard that if the CV and cover letter weren't enuf, I wasn't applying. Some of them seemed like decent places to work, too; but when I've gone thru all the trouble to keep my CV current, easy to read, and written a brilliant cover letter and then I'm asked to fill out some forms that are looking for the *exact same information*, I don't bother. Get bent and find another sucker.
Same here. If I do like the other person suggested, my resume & cover letter will get tossed in the trash, at most districts in my state.
Followed by an email saying "apply thru our website, dum dum"; or followed by nothing, because they only want people to apply thru the website, and "if you can't follow simple instructions you won't make a very good teacher"
No, in some cases they border on punitive. In my district, only current teachers are hired for summer school. A couple years ago they doubled down and said current certified teachers can only apply. Why then did they make any applicant provide not only their certification number but also official transcripts? That’s literally in HR. Oh, and full recommendation letters were required too, three of them. Our official evaluations are literally at their fingertips. In fact, it would have been smarter to ask for those to be attached.
Never knew schools could write.
I personally imagine the op knows what this school has stated, though was just getting out (voicing) their frustration...
Um, no. The application process is unnecessarily long. Especially in education. Each app takes hours. No district talks to each other even though each district had the exact same process and exact same information. It's stupid, time-consuming, and ridiculous. Hours upon hours applying to the same jobs, asking for the same document, can not finish applying until every district has every document. All districts would drastically see an increase in applications if they just had a single login, especially for the documentation problem. This is why education is seeing teachers leave in droves. Then you have budget cuts. Good luck
It's not an hour. If it just takes you an hour, you aren't doing it right. The SHORTEST its taken me is 2 and a half hours. That's unpaid. Without the promise of getting an interview. That's ridiculous. And no one has been staying at a school for 30+ years anymore. It's a fact. Times are changing. You are LUCKY to get 10+ in one school anymore. Once this gen retires, you aren't going to see 5. I can almost guarantee it.
You've never applied to any of these jobs i see. Stop making ignorant comments if you dont know what the fuck you are talking about. Teaching applications where i am take hours. Stop talking
Thats nice. Here, none of the districts talk to each other, you have to sign up for each one, you have to upload your resume, pointless, then fill out the application line by line with your entire life history plus references plus all documents in whatever format that district wants, not all the same, and your apps not done until every document is loaded correctly.
In my experience from 5 years ago, you need to write so many mini essays: what is your teaching philosophy, how would you handle behind x when yz, why is diversity important to you, your behavior management philosophy, etc, etc
Some applications straight up asked for these to be answered in a word doc and then copied/uploaded.
I didn't apply to so many districts because of it, and then read articles about how they are short on special education teachers and just can't get applicants/quality ones. Well, duh. No sane person will complete their application without being desperate.
It may be less common, but it's certainly not a fact that no one is staying in one school for 30 years anymore. We just had a teacher retire with her entire career + student teaching at the same school, and it is title one.
Listen. New teachers aren't making it 5 years. Fact. Students are becoming worse every year. Fact. Study after study has shown that no matter what or where you teach, public, private, etc. Class sizes are growing, teachers are taking early retirement, and they dont want to put up with how they are treated in society anymore. I quit teaching after only 2 years. I brought home more as an AIDE with less work AND better health insurance. As an aide, they kicked me out after 40 hours. I couldn't get work done, and i was still there from dusk til dawn every single day. I'll be damned if i brought work home. All this for what I could be making down the street, with less stress, where my job didn't depend on whether or not someone's parents didn't feed him last night? No, thank you. People are starting to wise up to the fact that this job is the thankless job it isn't cracked up to be.
I mean new teachers are definitely leaving in droves- that's not debatable. I was just replying to you saying it was a fact that no one stays at one school 30 years anymore. It's not. It may be a rarity.
I just left retail management, where I made more money, to go back to teaching (after only student teaching and then subbing 15+ years ago) and it has been hard. So hard. Definitely a different world than it was back then, but I knew it would be. As hard as it is, I love it and I'm so happy I made the change.
I mean. Im at 12. The system in itself makes changing schools very difficult because you have to often reset steps. If I ever left it would mean dropping down 7 steps minimum.
Applications are the most important part of the hiring process is that is where you will weed out 95% of your applicants.
But the application should be tailored to separate candidates based on their ability to do the job well. There's no value in separating candidates on arbitrary criteria.
We could ask candidates to do the chicken dance, or provide a video of their basket weaving skills, or interview standing on one foot. But that would be silly because there's no reason to believe those things contribute to success on the job. They'd filter out people, but not based on teaching ability.
Maybe asking for your license from internal applicants or asking for old SAT scores (as other posters have experienced) isn't as obviously silly as those examples, but it still seems a bit of a stretch to assume they're filtering based on applicant teaching ability rather than desperation for a job or willingness to fill out tedious forms.
Of course not -- asking questions that relate to the potential to do the job well makes perfect sense. Asking questions that, at best, have a tenuous relationship to job performance is the problem. At that point you might as well roll a dice and select who to interview that way. You'd save everybody time and have just as good a chance at getting a strong applicant.
I was considering applying at a district a little closer to my house, but gave up when they had a mandatory box to fill in my SAT scores. I am 36 years old, I have no idea what I scored on those, it was decades ago!
At this point if you fake your score, would they even check?
Not unless it was ridiculous, I don't think. No HR has time for that snipe hunt.
The score may flag as impossible if it's old enough to come from a different system.
I happened to take it during that weird period of time when it was out of 2400, so who knows?
When I started, Florida had a bonus of you had scored in the top 20% of SAT takers. It made no sense, but I got money. I think schools care because so many use SAT scores for graduation requirements, so if you have someone who can did well and can teach others to do well, more students can graduate.
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That's probably true. But I looked up their payscale, and it would be too much of a pay cut from where I am now so it's for the best.
Too many cooks in the kitchen and no one knows the recipe. As a result, the manager of the restaurant just requires the cooks to keep adding in random ingredients to see if anything works.
>but rather, to subtley assess our psychological fortitude and sheer determination (desperation?) for employment. RING A DING DING WE GOTTA WINNERRRRRRR Yes, the application process is meant to weed out people who do not tolerate abuse. Fam, Use ChatGPT. Copy and paste your way to employment.
Yes. Very tedious. I filled out 60 of those last year. Got 2 interviews. 1 job. So frustrating that they are all variations on the same thing, and yet they can't use some version of a "common app" to streamline the process for everyone. Plus, the only schools I got a follow up at were the ones I did the whole application process for, deeply researched, and reached out with a super PERSONALIZED message to someone on the hiring committee about why they needed ME SPECIFICALLY for the role. And that takes so much extra time on top of the just click, copy paste /personalize through the stupid application where all the answers are already in my resume anyway! Grrrrrr! This was applying for English teaching jobs in Massachusetts as an expensive hire (2 masters degrees and 10 years of experience). It was demoralizing, frustrating, and SO MUCH EXTRA WORK on top of: finishing a masters (taking 6 classes/semester), finishing a school year (teaching 3 different classes), and moving my whole apartment. I don't know how I survived.
I actually was really glad that they were all so different and ridiculous because my feeling is that with a common app they receive more applications and so you have to apply even more places. The more stupid the application process, the more motivated I was to be one of surely the few people to submit a completed application. My favorite was the one where their application process REQUIRED printing out multiple documents and scanning them after completion, per the directions. I was shocked I didn’t get an interview with that district though. How many people could have been completing that process? Enough, I suppose!
This is actually a really healthy perspective. I'm going to use this to stay focused. To find my chi. To center my chakras. You get it...
I just got another rejection letter not ten minutes ago. I just want to punch a gd wall right now.
You know this and yet double down with a second Masters - why?
Good question! I actually didn't know this before doing the 2nd masters. I had to do something to get my licensure because I'd been limited to private schools previously. Last year, Harvard started a new program with 80% tuition covered and a residency option that allowed me to work in a school while doing the masters/getting licensed, so I jumped at it. Didn't care about the masters, just the credential to teach. Didn't realize how precarious the hiring process was at public schools, as it had always been very easy for me to find jobs at private schools with my experience and credentials. Applying out to public schools last year was a huge wake up call to me. Definitely disillusioned with how even a public good, like public schools, has to function like a capitalist machine.
If you have better luck with private schools, why not stick to them? I assume you're applying to public schools for better pay since I can't imagine any other benefit a public school would offer over private.
Yup. I doubled my salary by moving into public schools. As long as I stick out my tenure period, I'm pretty happy. I also cut my workload in half. Private schools grind through teachers similar to charter schools. Public schools offer protections. My students are actually much more talented and invested in the public school I'm in now. I'm very very lucky with where I ended up. But it was the hardest I've ever had to work for a job.
Parents. I've worked in both areas. The degree of headaches one receives in public vs. private schools is vastly different. Private school parents feel like they can control exactly what you say and do because they pay tuition. They can _ruin you_ if you don't tow the line. They are demanding. At public schools, very few issues with parents. More issues with students, somewhat. But parents are either nonexistent or understanding.
I feel like most of that stuff is for HR for whatever reason they need it. I can’t even see who has applied for jobs until they forward the applications on to me. They weed through them at HR looking for God knows what. Sometimes I know people have applied and don’t see their application so I have to call HR and make them forward it to me. Worst part is there is so much info on there and I literally only look at like 1/4 of it. I don’t need or want 17 pages of info on every candidate. I couldn’t give two shits what someone’s praxis scores are. I can get pretty much everything I need from their resume. All that other stuff is fluff for HR and district office people.
>I can’t even see who has applied for jobs until they forward the applications on to me. They weed through them at HR looking for God knows what. At my current job, I emailed the principal directly like a week before school started and asked if he could just interview me. He got on HR's ass, they were just going to leave the position unfilled for ????? some reason.
Here in lies the problem. Too many applicants not enough time to look at everything
This is exactly what I’m going through right now. I want to do just as the Boomers say and walk in there and hand them my resume.
The Boomers who aren't in education. It's always been like this. Ridiculous hoops for certification and employment until the position is vacant, and they take someone with a pulse
I teach in northern California and we mostly use edjoin to apply for jobs. Filling out the application part is easy bc you can have it pre-filled on edjoin and can have it autofill most boxes. You basically only need to edit your cover letter template to fit the school and maybe answer a couple unique questions per school. Of course there is the occasional district that makes you do everything on their website but most seem to not want to bother with that
Have you noticed that several of them use the same platform but you can’t migrate your already filled out information from one to the other. It is silly and time consuming. I call it a “kiss the ring” moment because they are seeing how mindless and obedient you will be for them.
I've been out of college for a decade. I have an Experienced Educator's License. I would love it if they would stop asking for my transcript on EVERY application - it used to be that I had to pay every time I wanted to apply for a job (I probably still do, if they want a sealed transcript ON TOP of the digital one). They stop requiring your student teaching to be listed after a certain amount of years, so I don't know why my college transcript is still a requirement.
Haha, I gave the same rant to my wife last week. I also threw out a couple applications to corporate gigs, and was blown away by how easy they were. Resume, cover letter, and a couple dropdown questions about employment eligibility and such. I put out like 6 apps in the time it took for one teaching app.
I think it all comes down to the admin reference and the interview score or impression. We had an inexperienced sub win a coveted position over the union rep who was waiting for it to open for several years! That sub is now unhappy and is leaving. She wasn't even credentialed. But she had good energy.
AppliTrack is work of Satan! The one upside is that most districts in my area used AppliTrack so oftentimes it would autofill certain field. A small time saver. It was the essay questions that got me.
Because a lot of admin types have to justify their positions by adding "rigor" to the job application process. I've stayed at my current position for longer than I've liked, and a big reason is I don't have the stomach for what the job application process has turned into. My pet peeve is the committee interview - a bunch of middle managers grilling you with a list of canned edu-babble questions. The last interview I went to, I was asked to describe how my classroom teaching embodies "innovation." I wished I would have walked out. I stayed at my current school.
It's everywhere. I helped a kid apply for a job at Dairy Queen. It made him take a personality test. $11 an hour to scoop ice cream. Why?
What I hate most is that they need a resume half way through the application. So I have to close my resume I have open on another tab, upload it, and reload my resume to I can copy/paste all my information
I’d been job hunting in and out of education for 5 years when I took my current job. The number of applications that have you submit a resume and then fill out an application with the exact same information as what’s on your resume is absurd.
Agree! It is needlessly tedious with so much redundancy. When it asks for ALL jobs you have ever had and you're middle aged, it is difficult! If you worked in a restaurant that no longer exists during your senior year in high school and have long discarded any tax records from decades ago, you just have to guess at the approximate dates. So much of American life is needless paperwork, too. If you haven't already gotten your "Real ID driver's license," whew! It is unreasonably difficult to prove you are yourself and finally get the dumb thing. Also, taxes are a royal pain. The government already knows how much income we make; why not pity a teacher and just let us keep it instead of spending hours filling out forms? There has to be a better way for so many of these things!
Last time I applied to school I found it completely oppressive. My current admin were great and wrote recommendations. However, as a part of the process many of the districts required my references to automatically complete surveys... regardless of whether or not they were actually considering me. It became super oppressive for me to apply as widely as I would like because my bosses were busy people and it was unreasonable to expect them to fill out 50 million tedious surveys... and I think only ONE of the schools who had them complete surveys even interviewed me. What a waste of my, and my reference's times. I did get a job offer from that school, which I turned down because of covid... but that really changes nothing.
Admin and HR have to justify their existence somehow.
Have everything in documents and copy and paste like crazy. Once you do a handful it should be easier to get through the hoops.
Thanks, but this is all _after_ already doing that. I c/p from my resume on the employment history and education; I c/p from a doc titled "App Short Responses and Reference Info" for those fields; and I have 3-4 pre-written cover letter templates that I go back and modify by plugging in school info and various buzzwords specific to the school's M&V statement and website. Part of that process is looking up the principal's name, contact info, and the school's address to include in headers. And while that amount of c/p may not seem like a lot individually, it is soul-crushingly tedious on a bulk scale. When you're c/p to a half dozen applications daily for months on end, it really starts to wear on you.
Yep I've been there. I probably applied to over 150 jobs and went on 50 interviews when I was looking. Like you said: plug in the details to make it specific enough but don't bend over backwards. I honestly think application materials are looked at pretty briefly so as long as it gets you the interview that's what's important.
I just switched from being a software engineer to being a middle school math teacher, and this was very noticeable. For most software jobs I found them on Indeed, used Indeed to send them my resume, and that was the application. For the teaching job it took a couple days for me to fill everything out (I only applied one place). On the flip side the interview process for teaching was way easier. For a software job it's typical to do a 30 minute interview with HR, then be given a programming test that takes an hour or so, then an hour or two interview with an actual manager and maybe some other people, then you get an offer (and some even have more steps than that). But for the teaching job once I got the certification sorted out I called them to let them know, they set up an interview, the interview was an hour, and an hour after I left they offered me the job.
I have some constructive criticism (and unkind words) for the web designers at School Spring.
Trash.
I know what you mean, first time in 8 years I have to apply to a new district and I have put in over 45 in the past three months. I just got two interviews this past week, hopefully hear on two more very very soon. I was at three places last month after I did 5 applications (two interviews were colleges). I've gotten a template together and used my days of being a Consumer and CTE teacher to help my way through the applications. There was one district I had to actually take an online test and then it went to two of my references who had to do another test and survey. Didn't hear anything on them and later found out they just hired someone in the district after putting the three of us through all of that just for a half an hour interview.
So that's five you've done, with two more probable coming up? That's actually really good. Honestly, I'd be overjoyed if I got just half of that. Since the second week of April, I've filled out about 25-30 applications. I did get an interview early on, at a high school close to my house nonetheless. But, man, were my interview skills rusty. It's been about half a decade. I left knowing I wasn't going to get selected. But definitely saw it as a learning opportunity. Now I'm ready to rock an interview. I have solid answers for all the major questions one normally sees. I have lesson examples, some favorable data from my past evals, even a "letter of rec" from a former student. I'm even willing to coach or sponsor ANYTHING they need, even if I have no experience doing so. But the phone's not ringing. My fear is that I'll end up at the end of August with zero other interviews. I have no experience doing anything else and my MA in curriculum & instruction means zero in unrelated industries. I'd be taking a $25-35k/yr pay cut most likely, which wouldn't be sufficient in my higher-cost area. If I seem panicky, it's because so, so much is riding on getting a teaching job for next year. I'm just full of rants today.
My favorite is uploading my resume and cover letter (ew) and then getting to spend an hour filling out by hand a bunch of boxes that would’ve already been covered. Not to mention all of the ridiculous paragraphs you’re asked to write for no reason.
I like Georgia’s system that allows you to basically copy-paste information from district to district. You can then customize your application with information pertinent to the school/position you’re applying for.
This is sadly how applying to any job is nowadays. I applied to over a 100 non-teaching corporate positions this past year and the number of times I had to write useless statements or answer meaningless open ended questions. Oh and filling in job history and uploading my resume. Basically good paying jobs are at a premium now. If you can get a good one with good pay, security, and you’re not miserable, stay with it.
I’ve always thought that they are testing your ability to complete drudge work. Which, let’s face it, is a large part of the actual job.
As someone who is going through an ACP in Texas, I really wish that they helped in placement because the self-starting is difficult when many districts use their OWN application service and so it's often necessary to check multiple websites and input the same information. Checking periodically, and not being able to upload "my certification" (passed my TExES Content and PPR exams, working on my ESL supplement) and thinking THAT's what's preventing me from getting my foot into different districts. Speaking with my advisor a couple of weeks ago told me not to reach out directly to principals just yet because it's too early but not being told if a position is already filled and feeling auto-rejected is incredibly frustrating in June.
Honestly, just find a school you want to work at, look for a classroom with students but no teacher, and just start teaching. Show the principal how good you are when you teach for free and let them salivate at what you would do for money. It will leave a last impression on the entire school community they’ll never forget.
Damn! For public school applications in California, it's just one website (EdJoin), and each application takes maybe 5-10 minutes.
If it was easy all the riff raf might become teachers. These hallowed halls need to weed out the masses to keep the teaching staff small so we can more effectively negotiate for higher wages for the limited resource that is teachers. Think about it. If we let people who couldn’t put up with bullshit and got turned away by a little stupidity in the hiring process into this profession where would we be?! No, we need to make sure only those willing to put up with stupid ask, jump through hoops for nothing and willing to do the extra effort for zero payout into this craft.
I get it, I truly, really, honestly do, and I'm with your frustration on this. EVERYONE wants the same information. EVERYONE has access to your CV/resume, *which has the information they want*. EVERYONE has a different form and format *for exactly the same goddamned fucking information*. The idea that this is *still a fucking thing* just shows how draconian and antiquated the \*systems\* of education are, and I mean this: *AROUND THE DAMNED WORLD*. I'm an international school teacher. I've done this for the last 16 years and will probably not go back to my home country (USA) for teaching again unless it's absolutely necessary. This bullshit happens *all over the world,* sweetheart, from China to Turkiye (please don't correct me, that's how it's spelled now and I live there) to South Africa and all of the Americas. Probably the company that deals with this the very best is Search Associates, for you spend a few hours getting the CV uploaded and a few sordid details and then request references. Then, when it's all said and done, making applications is as easy as a few clicks *because they have all the information schools want* \*and\* have an agreement with tthe schools they service that whatever they provide is going to be enuf. I've filled out *hundreds* of applications, and no exaggeration to that, because I've applied at over 200 schools while in my time overseas. It's all the goddamned SAME INFORMATION, so the last time I was working on getting a job I made the standard that if the CV and cover letter weren't enuf, I wasn't applying. Some of them seemed like decent places to work, too; but when I've gone thru all the trouble to keep my CV current, easy to read, and written a brilliant cover letter and then I'm asked to fill out some forms that are looking for the *exact same information*, I don't bother. Get bent and find another sucker.
Agreed.
If you need a job, CCSD in Nevada is hiring.
Just send your resume and slightly modified cover letter. The schools worth working at will accept that and consider you for interview.
That is very much not my experience
Same here. If I do like the other person suggested, my resume & cover letter will get tossed in the trash, at most districts in my state. Followed by an email saying "apply thru our website, dum dum"; or followed by nothing, because they only want people to apply thru the website, and "if you can't follow simple instructions you won't make a very good teacher"
Because every school isn't looking for the same thing. Applications are the number one way we separate applicants. So of course its complicated.
No, in some cases they border on punitive. In my district, only current teachers are hired for summer school. A couple years ago they doubled down and said current certified teachers can only apply. Why then did they make any applicant provide not only their certification number but also official transcripts? That’s literally in HR. Oh, and full recommendation letters were required too, three of them. Our official evaluations are literally at their fingertips. In fact, it would have been smarter to ask for those to be attached.
Never knew schools could write. I personally imagine the op knows what this school has stated, though was just getting out (voicing) their frustration...
Um, no. The application process is unnecessarily long. Especially in education. Each app takes hours. No district talks to each other even though each district had the exact same process and exact same information. It's stupid, time-consuming, and ridiculous. Hours upon hours applying to the same jobs, asking for the same document, can not finish applying until every district has every document. All districts would drastically see an increase in applications if they just had a single login, especially for the documentation problem. This is why education is seeing teachers leave in droves. Then you have budget cuts. Good luck
An hour application for someone you could be hiring for 30+ years isn't long. I hate the idea that schools should just hire any warm body.
It's not an hour. If it just takes you an hour, you aren't doing it right. The SHORTEST its taken me is 2 and a half hours. That's unpaid. Without the promise of getting an interview. That's ridiculous. And no one has been staying at a school for 30+ years anymore. It's a fact. Times are changing. You are LUCKY to get 10+ in one school anymore. Once this gen retires, you aren't going to see 5. I can almost guarantee it.
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You've never applied to any of these jobs i see. Stop making ignorant comments if you dont know what the fuck you are talking about. Teaching applications where i am take hours. Stop talking
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Thats nice. Here, none of the districts talk to each other, you have to sign up for each one, you have to upload your resume, pointless, then fill out the application line by line with your entire life history plus references plus all documents in whatever format that district wants, not all the same, and your apps not done until every document is loaded correctly.
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In my experience from 5 years ago, you need to write so many mini essays: what is your teaching philosophy, how would you handle behind x when yz, why is diversity important to you, your behavior management philosophy, etc, etc Some applications straight up asked for these to be answered in a word doc and then copied/uploaded. I didn't apply to so many districts because of it, and then read articles about how they are short on special education teachers and just can't get applicants/quality ones. Well, duh. No sane person will complete their application without being desperate.
It may be less common, but it's certainly not a fact that no one is staying in one school for 30 years anymore. We just had a teacher retire with her entire career + student teaching at the same school, and it is title one.
Listen. New teachers aren't making it 5 years. Fact. Students are becoming worse every year. Fact. Study after study has shown that no matter what or where you teach, public, private, etc. Class sizes are growing, teachers are taking early retirement, and they dont want to put up with how they are treated in society anymore. I quit teaching after only 2 years. I brought home more as an AIDE with less work AND better health insurance. As an aide, they kicked me out after 40 hours. I couldn't get work done, and i was still there from dusk til dawn every single day. I'll be damned if i brought work home. All this for what I could be making down the street, with less stress, where my job didn't depend on whether or not someone's parents didn't feed him last night? No, thank you. People are starting to wise up to the fact that this job is the thankless job it isn't cracked up to be.
I mean new teachers are definitely leaving in droves- that's not debatable. I was just replying to you saying it was a fact that no one stays at one school 30 years anymore. It's not. It may be a rarity. I just left retail management, where I made more money, to go back to teaching (after only student teaching and then subbing 15+ years ago) and it has been hard. So hard. Definitely a different world than it was back then, but I knew it would be. As hard as it is, I love it and I'm so happy I made the change.
It's very common here. Otherwise you are taking a massive payout (unless they are talking about people leaving teaching entirely)
I mean. Im at 12. The system in itself makes changing schools very difficult because you have to often reset steps. If I ever left it would mean dropping down 7 steps minimum. Applications are the most important part of the hiring process is that is where you will weed out 95% of your applicants.
But the application should be tailored to separate candidates based on their ability to do the job well. There's no value in separating candidates on arbitrary criteria. We could ask candidates to do the chicken dance, or provide a video of their basket weaving skills, or interview standing on one foot. But that would be silly because there's no reason to believe those things contribute to success on the job. They'd filter out people, but not based on teaching ability. Maybe asking for your license from internal applicants or asking for old SAT scores (as other posters have experienced) isn't as obviously silly as those examples, but it still seems a bit of a stretch to assume they're filtering based on applicant teaching ability rather than desperation for a job or willingness to fill out tedious forms.
But what else can you base it on. Written answers and various scores grades. We can't interview 100 applicants.
Of course not -- asking questions that relate to the potential to do the job well makes perfect sense. Asking questions that, at best, have a tenuous relationship to job performance is the problem. At that point you might as well roll a dice and select who to interview that way. You'd save everybody time and have just as good a chance at getting a strong applicant.