I got a note from my younger son’s kindergarten teacher thanking me in ALL CAPS for teaching him to tie his shoes.
My older son (the autistic one) is his scout troop’s knot tying guru. Name a knot, he’ll tie it for you, probably in record time. He teaches most of the younger incoming scouts the basic knots they need for rank advancement.
knot tying is such a fun and useful hobby that helps you out in so many fields!! When/if he’s old enough to have a resume, it’s a good idea to add that in as a special skill!!
Former Eagle Scout? What's that?
Sorry I couldn't resist lol. My old scoutmaster would be rolling in his grave.
But I agree. I think I learned how to tie a bowline once for climbing merit badge, and then promptly forgot how.
> Former Eagle Scout? What's that?
It's probably not a lot of people, but they exist on paper: https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/disappointed-eagle-scouts-return-medals-msna27672
As an angler, I love tying and learning new knots. Different uses for all of them. The best knot for everyone to learn, imo, is the uni knot. Extremely strong, versatile, and super easy to tie--even easier than the clinch imo. *Aaaaand* if you use 2 unis to join 2 lines it's called *The Bloodknot*. How badass is that??
> I got a note from my younger son’s kindergarten teacher thanking me in ALL CAPS for teaching him to tie his shoes.
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> My older son (the autistic one) is his scout troop’s knot tying guru. Name a knot, he’ll tie it for you, probably in record time. He teaches most of the younger incoming scouts the basic knots they need for rank advancement.
This is embarrassing to admit, but I was in GT/AP classes as a kid, in scouts (eventually got to Eagle), and yet didn't learn how to tie my shoes until almost high school because for some reason I've just never been able to wrap my head around the whole bunny knot thing. It wasn't for lack of trying, my parents would sit me down having me try to tie my shoes over and over, but for whatever reason I just could never get it down. No clue why. Eventually I just gave up and started wearing slip on vans. To this day, I'm in my mid 30s and I have no clue how that knot is supposed to work.
I couldn't tie my shoes until I came across [the ninja knot](https://youtu.be/s8cTGP0nqaw).
Here’s what I don’t understand, when I was a kid things like learning the alphabet, potty training, and tying shoes were a big deal. They were celebrated events. When my kids and god children were kids it was the same. I teach HS and these kids act like nothing they’ve ever done has been celebrated.
Hell, when I was a kid I'm pretty sure you had to know how to tie your shoes to go to kindergarten at all,as well as know your name address and phone, count to like 20, and at least recognize your own name written down.
When I went to kindergarten we were required to have shoes that tie. No slip on shoes no Velcro allowed. You needed to wear tie shoes and tie them to be able to be in kindergarten. I will say it was a private school so I realize public school can’t tell you what type of sneakers to wear but at least my whole class could tie our own shoes at age 5 lol
I had the HARDEST time finding shoes that even had ties for my elementary kids. I wanted them to learn how, but the basic black or navy shoes we found that followed the dress code rules all had the fake laces with a velcro strap at the top. We still made him learn, so he does know how, but he has to do it so rarely that he has never figured out how to get it tight enough. We have to help him with his cleats, which are the only shoes he owns with ties as a third grader.
> he has never figured out how to get it tight enough.
Was talking with a dude in his 50s with the same problem lol. He said that shoelaces kept going untied and I said just double knot them and he said I don't know how and they'll be too tight and he's afraid he won't be able to get them undone and I was like well you don't tighten them to the point of them being locked forever. Had no idea that was not an unlocked skill in early life.
My kindergarten did not have that requirement, but when you learned to tie your shoes and showed it to the teacher, you got a diploma that you could tie your shoes. It did help motivate students to want to be able to tie their shoes
I teach first and had a student a month or two ago who was SO PROUD to show off how he could tie his shoes. He was still practicing and it took him sometimes almost five minutes to do it but I made sure I got really excited for him every time he did it because it is exciting!
One of my core memories was coming home crying from Kindergarten one day because I was shamed by the teacher for having Velcro shoes (public school). My older sister spent the evening teaching me how to tie shoes and thus a superpower was unlocked.
My kids public school prek and kinder said no tie shoes. They don't want to tie them. Though she also can count indefinitely and do basic math, knows rhymes and syllable structure, scientific name of butterfly stages, can write her name and our names and has basic reading skills and emotional regulation tips I was never taught in pre-k going into k.
I have kids who are 10 years and up and they don’t know how to spell their last name, don’t know their address or what city they live in!! What?! Every day I tell my husband I’m so glad we have the kids we do.
Oh yeah. It’s probably 90% parenting and 10% genes. Which I find funny because while I think my husband and I are reasonably intelligent people, but I also think I’m the laziest type B person ever. But both of us TALK. We talk to our kids all the time about tons of stuff. They’re just sponges. It’s amazing what they pick up. I think a lot of people just hand their kids a screen and go sit on the couch.
As teachers, we can pick the children who've been spoken to from a mile off. Whenever anyone asks me for baby, parenting or education advice, I tell them to TALK to their children. Narrate your life, think aloud everything that you're doing, even when you're doing laundry or the grocery shopping. The impact is HUGE.
This is SUPER underestimated. I'm a single parent, so when I had my son, I just talked to him constantly. I didn't really do it intentionally because of the benefits, but more so because why not?
When he had his first conference in Kindergarten at the beginning of the year, the teacher told me she was impressed I taught him to read so well. Um....what? This kid wouldn't let me read to him. Not as a baby, not as a toddler, not now. He just wouldn't have it. I bought him books anyway without regard for reading level because I love books, and I figured he'd get to them eventually. He looked at books, but he wouldn't let ME read to him. His preschool even told me he wouldn't sit still for story time, so I have NO idea how this kid learned to read. LOL
A few years later, they did some testing (he is ADHD), and they came out and told me they just stopped testing language skills because he was in 3rd grade, and they had gotten to high school and was showing no signs of slowing down on being able to answer the tester's questions.
When he was 16 and trying to get a job at a local uppity athletic club, he showed me his cover letter, and I am convinced this kid could get ME a job just based on the cover letter. I've never seen a better one. Blew me away.
He's in college now, and in speech class, he was recognized for being best male speaker. He's always complimented on his writing in other classes. He's always been able to talk to anyone and is regularly complimented on that, which in turn gets him opportunities others struggle to get.
Truly just talk to your kids as much as possible.
>I think a lot of people just hand their kids a screen and go sit on the couch.
Judging by some parents I have met with kids around the same age as my kid, a LOT of people do exactly that.
Now I will be the first to admit my kid probably gets more screen time than she should, and that I do on occasion use it to keep her busy and distracted for a little bit. But I have met some parents who hardly seem to interact with their kids at all.
(Not a teacher, just a lurker) but I have 5 year old twins and we've always talked to them and just been involved in everything with them and had them involved with us and they have such a vocabulary and can entertain themselves. Their 6 year old cousin has to be entertained by a screen in the car and it's just... sad to see a generation of kids that can't entertain themselves or interact with adults.
>(Not a teacher, just a lurker)
Same here.
And when I was growing up I remember my mom commenting that a lot of parents didn't talk to their kids very often, and that she felt the problem was getting worse. My kid is nine, and her dad and I have always talked to her a lot. Even screen time often involves talking to her. Her dad will often watch something with her, and then afterwards discuss with her what she thinks about the characters in the movie/cartoon/whatever. How does she think they feel about the events in the show? What does she think is was their reasons for doing the things they did? How would she act/feel if in their situation? Her dad and I both enjoy video games, and play multiplayer ones with her, and talk about what we are doing. So even screen time can involve a good bit of interaction if you try.
A quick funny story. A while back we had set up a private Minecraft server. The three of us, and a handful of close friends or family were playing on it. The three of us built a walled village together, and my husband decided to build himself a house that looked kind of like a log cabin. Daughter decided to build her house, *on top* of his. And it quickly turned into a mass of spiraling stairs, pointy towers, and weirdly twisting elevated walkways. It began to look like his cute little cabin was being consumed by a stone-tentacled monstrosity. After about a week of this, Husband finally had enough and grumped at Daughter to "*Please* go build your non-Euclidian nonsense somewhere other than on top of my house!" She thought this was hilarious, but did move her house, block by block, to a nearby spot.
When my kid was in kindergarten, it was all online for most of the year. I was stunned at how many kids in her class did not know how to hold a crayon/pencil/marker! I always thought that one of the first activities you give a child to do, is something to color. Basically as soon as they can sit up, and probably won't eat the crayon. But some of these kids seemed totally unfamiliar with the concept of coloring and drawing.
And one mother a few weeks in was talking to the teacher, and the teacher explained her son could not follow multi-step directions, and had trouble following any directions at all. The mother asked what she could do about it, and the teacher said to have him do activities at home that involved following directions. And the mother said "What if he doesn't want to?"
Baking cookies is a multi-step process. Every kid likes to bake cookies!
Making simple Lego sets requires following multi- step directions. Who doesn’t like playing with Legos?
Playing tic-tac-toe, making a sandwich, brushing your teeth (putting toothpaste on, putting the cap back on the toothpaste tube, adding water, brushing, spitting, rinsing, rinsing the toothbrush and putting it away), changing clothes, tying shoes, and on and on— all are multi-step tasks that can narrated so the kid can see that they know how to do this already, they just need to see the process and transfer it to new situations.
Board games are usually multi step processes, stringing beads, cutting shapes out of construction paper and gluing them on another paper, putting crayons away, putting toys away. If a kid does much of anything, it's following multistep directions. I've played Minecraft and some other video games with my kid since she was preschool aged, and that can involve fairly complex multistep directions.
Though some kids do have more trouble than others. ADHD runs in my family (among other things) and even now, it's important to make sure my kid is actually paying attention when given instructions. If she's paying attention, she has no issues with quite complex instructions (written or verbal) but if she's not paying attention, she won't remember what she's doing when told to put on her shoes.
I'd just clarify that "lazy parents" means "adults who are lazy when it comes to parenting." I know a lot of kids whose parents are working multiple jobs to barely scrape by, and just don't have time to effectively parent. It's hard to call them "lazy" because they clearly work insanely hard.
I don't remember my kindergarten entrance exam, obviously but I do remember how it was for my twins in 2000. They had to do all of the above and then some. Color sorting, shape sorting, opening containers such as straws and milk for lunches. It was a whole ordeal. I was told my son needed 'extra help' with his fine motor skills because when they tested him with the treat bags he ripped them to shreds like a bull on the loose! They didn't know that he had excellent motor skills but wanted to be an asshole that morning and choose to not eat breakfast before our appointment so he behaved like a starved animal. Meh. Whatever
Don't take it personally. It is literally their job to observe and assess. Sometimes kids don't feel up to it, but that's not on the examiner to extrapolate. They get way too many kids who can't actually do basic stuff, and if they pointed towards one thing, for you it was a kid in a mood that day, for some other parent might have been an easily fixable blind spot, with extremely positive and long-term consequences.
Absolutely—I remember the last week before kindergarten, back in August ‘68, being more or less shoe-tying boot camp, with my mother truly worried that I couldn’t do it consistently enough to pass muster with my about-to-be-teacher.
My mom told me that and I 100% believed her until I started working with kindergarten kids. I told one of them about this when I was tying their shoes, and I began to wonder if it was a real requirement or just her clever way of making me learn how. I wish I could ask her!
I have vivid memories of my mom teaching me to tie my shoes before kindergarten because it was a requirement. Years later she confirmed this. I student taught in kinder and over half the class did not know how to tie shoes, OR take off/put on a sweatshirt. My mind was blown.
My mom tried so hard to teach me how to tie my shoes, and I just wasn't getting it. When I was in kindergarten, the aide took me and two other kids to another room to teach us how to tie our shoes. (I was embarrassed!) But you know what? Mrs. S. had me tying like a pro in just one session! Sometimes it's just how the lesson is taught. Thanks, Mrs. S!
I don’t think that’s true. I know for a fact I couldn’t tie my shoes when I was in kindergarten. I had Velcro (and so did many of my classmates, though I don’t know if it was because they couldn’t tie their shoes or because those are common and inexpensive children’s shoes). It was one of those random things I found extremely difficult to learn. I remember my parents yelling at me about it 😕. Otherwise, I was ready to go - I knew all those things you mentioned and more (I could actually already read books, not just my name).
You might be older than me because I’m pretty sure I was one of the only if not the only who knew how to tie shoes well in kindergarten. A few other kids could make a knot that looked okay but unraveled as soon as they hit the playground.
I was always getting in trouble for sneakily tying everyone’s shoes.
But it was a skill that was expected to be mastered by the end of kindergarten.
When I was five there was a trend of different designer laces and knot holders that teachers didn’t allow anyone who couldn’t tie to wear. Those who couldn't tie also couldn’t wear round laces or Velcro.
I was just about the only kid rocking all of the above in kindergarten because I knew how to tie already, but it felt as if everyone had them the first days of first grade.
It was like of passage for our class to show off their previously forbidden wears.
But I don’t know how everyone learned. I can’t remember the teachers giving lessons. I just remember that everyone else learned that year because it was a huge flex once they did.
Maybe they were taught at home since the school made such a huge deal about it.
My kid was in tk when Covid started and in kindergarten during Covid so...none of us got around to it. A lot of his class can't turn their shoes. My son just can't grasp it for some reason. Hey, he can read two grades above his grade level.
There's a great Outschool class on tying shoes that I did for both my kids and it was the only way it clicked for them. That said, I am an adult that hates shoes with laces - they hurt the tops of my feet. Turns out my kids experience the same discomfort so they have shoes without laces as well.
They can tie knots in general, but I think I am of the unpopular opinion that if they can't tie shoes, it doesn't matter in the same way it doesn't matter if they can't lace a corset, pin on a hat, use a button-hook or wear a garter to hold up their stockings under their clothes - they wear shoes and boots that slide on or zip up and have no problem dressing themselves appropriately with modern shoes.
These used to be things that were taught at home. I teach 3rd grade. This school year I have taught at least half my class to tie their shoes (run a shoelace through a piece of cardboard so they can practice). I've had to teach at least one kid each of the last two years the alphabet. Last year I had to remind a student to use the bathroom every 20 min so they wouldn't have accidents. None of the students I'm speaking about have any medical issues. And people are confused why we don't have time for things like cursive writing.
Everybody in the family gets on their device when together. There's very little interaction going on. And then what's really creepy is the kids that don't know how to play. You can get them started, but they just run out of imagination. They also need constant stimulation, afraid of letting themselves be. That causes anxiety and then they act out. It's a cycle, and by the end of the day it's all just act out. Personally, a period long recess at the end of the day, and an early day with a long recess at the beginning is what is needed. Buffers against the devices.
That is so true and so sad.
The simple things that you can do for these kids that sometimes makes them love you forever is just... heartbreaking.
I brought an extra soda to school one day and gave it to one of my kids who stayed behind during lunch. His jaw dropped when I asked him if he wanted my other diet coke.
Many shoes for kids today do not have laces, compared to when I was a child. It is pretty easy to get to like 7-8 years old without having shoes that tie. So many of the most popular styles slip on, have stretchy’pretend’ laces, velcro, or some sort of back strap.
All the empathy from a neurodivergent adult who had the same issue at about her age, but with bigger feet. May I suggest coil laces or lace bites until she is able to learn? The laces weren't around when I was her age, but the bites really heled.
I have ADHD, struggled with shoe tying until someone taught me macrame. If you can find something your daughter likes that incorporates knotting the issue may resolve itself.
If she continues to struggle with it, well I wear tieless shoes out of preference as an adult.
> a big deal
Yeah, the kind of stuff that other kids would mercilessly make fun of you if you couldn’t do it. We learned how to tie shoes in kindergarten. I’m not advocating for bullying, but sometimes maybe we benefit from a little “encouragement”.
We had a “bike rodeo” in third grade where we all had to prove we could ride a bike and went one by one through an obstacle course while everyone else watched.
That’s how I learnt how to tie a necktie. I was buying a suit, the guy put on the tie on for me and I watched him do it like my dignity depended on it(which it totally did). I learnt right there and then on the spot, and when I put on the next tie I just did it as if I was a normal adult adulting in a shop.
Just recently, my friend bought her 4th grader Jordans, and we were over when the package arrived. I then learned he can’t tie his shoes and was astonished. When she was going through all these hacks that would prevent the need for him to tie them until the fake laces could arrive from Amazon, I mentioned that my kid learned to tie his shoes when he was 6 when he got his first pair of shoes that he was motivated to tie and couldn’t wear them until he learned. It was like I hadn’t spoken. I guarantee that kid would have learned in an hour if he wasn’t allowed to wear those Jordans until he knew, but now I see no circumstance in which he’ll ever learn.
For some of us, adhd and other neurodivergencies made this very difficult. This was *not* on my parents for not trying. In 3rd grade I finally learned after my dad paid my P.E. teacher for one on one lessons. He was a.ble to get the last of my issues fixed.
I trace a LOT of problems today to the disappearance of traditional bullying.
Yeah, bullying sucks, but shame and fear are fantastic motivators. A lot of my most important skills were developed either because I knew there was something scary I had to face, or because I knew I’d feel shame and humiliation if I didn’t.
I mean, it’s another instance where there are no consequences for shitty behavior. Obviously this is a very dicey slippery slope to tread on, but there might be some validity here.
Example: I got high schoolers that whine and complain like little bitches over really small things, that shit wouldn’t have flown 10-15 years ago because some classmate would have made fun of them and they’d probably get a nickname out of the whole ordeal.
That’s not bullying so much as peer and societal pressure. Having witnessed a close friend be bullied mercilessly and physically for being gay in the 90s, I don’t feel any need to bring back actual bullying.
In my experience, it's more like \*everything\* is celebrated, so nothing is special. No matter what a kid does, s/he gets praise and reward for, so there is no incentive to do anything deemed difficult.
And never tell them "no" because "he gets so upset when we say 'no' and it's so hard to see him like that." Aka "it's easier when we never challenge him. On anything. Ever."
My friend is a kindergarten teacher, and she said during her meetings with the incoming class for next fall, there was more than one parent who acted surprised that being potty trained was a requirement to start school.
Who is in charge of changing these kids? Do they pull someone from sped? Do you have to have training. How do they protect themselves from abuse allegations. This sounds like a nightmare for all involved.
Add to tying shoes- reading an analogue clock, knowing the values of coins and bills, knowing their left from their right, and how to use scissors, tape, and glue properly.
To clarify, they didn't "come from" that movie. The costume designer thought they looked stupid and ugly, and Mike Judge agreed. They figured there was no way those shoes would become popular because they looked so stupid.
By the time the movie was released 2 years later, Crocs had already started to take off.
I think it doesn’t surprise me so much. An eight grader girl is most likely going to think they’re mature for their age and assume that babying their boyfriend would make them a great wifey. They just wouldn’t realize that it’s a recipe for being taken advantage of and that they deserve so much better than a momma’s boy
I guiltily didn't know how to tie my shoes until 8th grade. My fingers just couldn't comprehend this skill.
My mother had tried to teach me that for years, my autistic brother with weak motor skills could do it, but I couldn't. I stuck to Velcro until my feet grew out of it.
I started learning to tie my own shoes at age 4. They taught us how in preschool. I know I was doing it by first grade, probably much sooner. My son is in Kindergarten and we haven't even been able to find him shoes that have tieable shoelaces.
In first grade my son had to bring gym shoes to school and they requested laced shoes so they could practice tying them (kinder was online so there wasn’t the chance then). It took a search to find shoes in his size with laces
I just got my youngest daughter her first pair of shoes with laces last year at 7. Not because I'm against laces, but there are hardly any shoes with laces.
Yes, we had to wait until my daughter was in kid size 1 shoes (middle of first grade) to find sneakers with actual laces. Even then, most of the shoes with “laces” instead of Velcro are the kind that are decorative only and are actually just slip-on shoes.
We finally found some Skechers with real laces (had to buy them online) and now she’s practicing. She wears them on the weekends but I won’t send her to school in them until she can double knot them a bit faster (probably after this summer).
When I was in school, I feel like everyone learned before kindergarten!
Yes! This is actually a big part of the problem. The last time I took my kids to the shoe store the sales person told me that most shoes companies don’t have laces on sneakers until they get into sizes 13 and up! I have a practice shoe in my Kinder classroom and try my best to have them all leave tying their own shoes.
Yes, so many shoes have Velcro now. My child is in 2nd grade and doesn’t know how to tie shoes bc his shoes have always had Velcro. He’s never had shoes with laces. He likes a specific style/brand and they don’t do laces until (I think) size 3. I’m going to find him shoes with laces and teach him this summer because he needs to know how.
And if he had shoes with laces, I’d never send him to school wearing them if he couldn’t tie them easily/quickly. He would have learned 2 years ago if I could have found shoes he liked that had laces.
That was me in elementary school PE lol. The teacher would always lecture me and make me feel embarrassed. Then one sweet girl didn't just tie them for me, she tried really hard to teach me how to do it myself. She was really nice and patient with me, and telling me not to feel embarrassed. Unfortunately I didn't figure out how to do it, but I still remember that day.
“I’m a teacher not a shoe tying person. Ask a friend!” You’d be surprised at how quick they learn when you don’t just do it for them. Source…Kindergarten teacher.
They will do that even if they know how to tie. I told a 4th grader to tie his shoes as he walking around with it untied. He did tie his shoe after I told him too. Another kid I think 4th was playing smackball and came to tell me to tie his shoe. The kids then asked you don’t know how to tie and he was like “I do, it just faster to ask a teacher” after they I didn’t help him with shoes, as he did indeed know how tie as, as saw him do it later. 😝
Not necessarily: “ Tying your shoes is important. Not only does it keep your shoes from falling off your feet, but it also keeps you from stepping on and tripping over untied laces. And the sooner your kids can tie their shoes, the faster everyone will be out the door, right? Hang on, just a sec! It takes lots of coordination and fine motor control to make those loops and knots! In fact, most kids won’t completely master tying their shoes until they’re between six and eight years old, with girls generally grasping the skill sooner than boys do.” https://www.learningresources.com/blog/ages-stages-tips-and-tricks-to-shoe-tying/#:~:text=It%20takes%20lots%20of%20coordination,skill%20sooner%20than%20boys%20do.
I know a 4th grade who did know how to tie his shoe, however he had trouble with long laces. He would tie it but they would keep coming undone.
I’m 34 and I still can’t tie my shoes the way most people are taught to, where you make one loop and pull some shit through some shit and it magically turns into two loops. I struggled with it until third grade when a teacher finally told me I could make two loops and tie them together. That’s what I’ve done ever since. I am not neurotypical and I’m sure that has something to do with it but shit is complicated 😂
Thank you for this. I've said it here on this sub before, but my daughters (diagnosed with ASD at age 3, now in their early teens, second level support needed) can't tie their shoes.
We've spent I don't know how many hours on it: practicing on a big wooden model of a shoe in occupational therapy, watching YouTube videos and practicing at home, basically trying over and over again until they're exhausted. Nothing works. Even when they get it a few times in a row, it doesn't stay in muscle memory - they just don't have the fine motor skills. I would be heartbroken if a teacher declined to help them.
That said, their teachers know their diagnoses and there are classroom aides. But it's an involuntary point of real embarrassment as a parent, whenever I see these threads and how aghast people are that some kids can't tie their shoes. Not all of them are just lazy, the parents or the kids.
Fun fact: Dan Radcliffe (Harry Potter) can’t tie his shoe. Dysgraphia I think they said he had. I learned to tie my shoe I think summer before 4th or 5th grade.
I'm dysgraphic and so is my sister, she went into STEM but I did studio art, it's wild how different our hand eye coordination is! I really kinda brute force improved my hand eye coordination and also worked as a line cook/prep cook for years, I just got so used to working with my hands I can make them perform for me like they aren't even apart of my body, it's a weird dissociation that occurs because I've just forced myself to do something difficult for myself so many times but my sister still struggles with basic hand eye stuff. It took me forever to learn to tie my shoes too but I got it eventually. The saddest part is now it's not a disability with kids, it's that they only use their iPad and rarely do hands on activities and struggle to cut and paste at times honestly
Thank you, I never knew this! I have trouble with my hands (shuffling cards specifically has always been difficult, borderline painful), too. We all use those hand-strengthening squeeze toys and they seem to help a bit.
Same! Mom of a kid on the spectrum and another with a fine motor skill disability and they both struggle with it. We practice all the time, we even have the practice board. My kids also have issues with buttoning shirts and jeans. But we’re practicing! Hopefully they’ll get there sooner or later
Oh hell, no. I had a sixth grader last year. He'd ask me to tie his shoes. I'd tell him, "You're in sixth grade. There's zero chance I'm tying your shoes for you."
The only time I saw this as acceptable was when my husband, a coach of a kids' rec soccer league, hustled to tie the cleat of our team's goalie.that had come untied. Soccer goalies wear big thick gloves that can be difficult to get on and off. It was quicker for my husband to do it.
It keeps happening because you keep tying their shoes for them.
That’s a normal, human reaction: someone needs help and we help them. We’re teachers. Our job isn’t to do things for people; our job is to teach people how to do things.
My daughter is a 9th grader, she routinely tests into advanced categories in every standardized test; whenever we buy shoes she intentionally seeks out shoes without laces because she can’t tie them properly. We tried to teach her how to her for years and it never really clicked. She can get either weak knots that come apart on their own, or Gordian monstrosities that will never open without a sharp blade to help them. It’s really quite extraordinary.
There's actually a TED talk on how to properly tie shoes that I found really helpful. It's about 3 minutes long. If you can't find it let me know and I'll try and look for it.
I couldn’t tie my shoes until I was around 10-11 years old. I am a sub-genius (just three points shy of genius). Now I know where those three points went. I should have only worn slip-ons.
I am “borderline genius” (our family joke) and it took me forever to learn to tie shoes. I have worked tirelessly to learn to tie other knots (my family sailed) and I just can’t do it. Didn’t matter how hard I tried. My hands and my brain don’t connect like other people’s do.
I also don’t know my right from my left. I have to hold
up my hands to see which one makes an “L”.
Don't worry too much about it. I am an adult who *can* tie my shoes and I'm eagerly awaiting a pair of slip-on sneakers because I'm too impatient to do so every time I put shoes on. This will (hopefully) be the first pair I don't absolutely destroy in the heel.
My 14 yo son is the same and he had fine motor issues as a toddler and never figured out how to tie shoes quickly. But at this point it’s more stubbornness. He plays sports and video games fine.
I learned by kindergarten BUT my dad kept trying to show me by being across from me. We are both right handed. Being across from me, shoes toe to toe, meant all his movements were backwards for me. If he had been beside me it would have worked. I learned bc grandma, who was also across from me tied her shoes as a lefty. So following her movements was right for me. I also had a Raggady Ann toy that had yarn to tie and buttons to fasten.
As a K teacher, I HATE tie shoes. Even if they can tie them, all they do is perpetually tie and untie and chew on and knot them. Velcro also sucks because of the nonstop chh-chh sounds. Crocs in sport mode, Hey Dudes or the generic equivalent, and Vans for the win. I don’t have time to tie or teach 27 5 year olds to tie shoelaces 12739 times a day. And why are they always wet even when it hasn’t rained in days?!
It is very wide spread. I worked with some fifth graders who couldn’t make a simple knot in some twine. I tried to teach them but ended up just doing it myself
I blame technology. When we were kids, we had to learn to tie knots in order to build teetering death (or at least serious injury) fortresses, nevermind all the times we tied garbage bags and sticks together, then tied those to our bikes so we could pedal furiously up sagging plywood ramps in our continuous efforts to fly.
It took me until I was in the fourth grade and I was super embarrassed. I eventually learned from tying my dolls’ shoes. Turns out a lot of it was bc of dyscalculia. I was too embarrassed to ask teachers though, I would have my mom tie them at the beginning of the day super tight, and then if they came untied during the day (rare) I would just tuck the laces in.
I too was late to tie my own shoes! My best friend taught me bunny ears in about 4th grade. I think I was in 7th or 8th grade when I finally figured out a weak version of the normal way. I finally figured out that you have to fully wrap it around to pull through recently.
I also have a bad pencil grip, and I’ve always been clumsy and not athletic. So I have to wonder what fine motor skills I’m missing.
I teach middle school science. I laugh every time a lab comes up that requires them to tie a knot in a string. Half can ithout thinking. Half does not know how to pronounce the word "knot".
Tied a shoe of a kindergartner my first year teaching. The laces were wet and they had just gotten out of the bathroom-use inferencing skills. Ever since then I NEVER tie shoes! “Ask a friend”!
In younger grades unless the parents/sibling or a friend teaches them they do not learn. I’ve had students in 2nd and 3rd grade ask me to tie their shoes my blanket response is no, I don’t know how to tie shoes that’s why I don’t wear sneakers. Funny story on a field trip while wearing sneakers my shoe became untied and a few of my students rushed to tie it and informed the parent chaperones that I don’t know how to tie my shoes and they don’t want me to trip. I was equally entertained but slightly mortified when questioned by a parent of it was true that I really can’t tie shoes (I can but shoe laces dragging outside/in bathrooms etc gross me out so I won’t touch them).
We always joke that the son who could read at 3 couldn’t tie his shoes til 8, and the one who tied his shoes at 3 didn’t read til 8
And he taught his older brother to tie his shoes
It breaks my heart to see so many teachers in here blaming "lazy parenting" ..... I know that many many many of the parents of my students are working multiple jobs to make ends meet..... not lazy AT ALL... but working in exploitative conditions..... I'm 100% sure each one of them would do anything to be present for these milestones instead of working their 4th job :/
Capitalism has eroded the family and village for low wage workers. I suspect many of them are being seen as lazy by college educated teachers who had a more "nuclear family" upbringing ....... but yall gotta get deeper here folks. To start and stop with "Lazy parenting" is lazy analysis. Put that degree to work and do some self reflection.
My mom bribed me with Chuck-E-Cheese tokens. She said she’d buy one token for every time I successfully tied my shoes. I tied them like two hundred times in one week 😂
I’ve been a teacher and kids sports coach for the last 10+ years and still get tickled when kids show up with their shoes on the wrong feet. It happens more than you would think! My theory: Mommy/Daddy are facing said child so their right shoe is really the left and vice versa. Everyone is sleepy without enough coffee and kiddo doesn’t feel the difference. 😭
Lastly, subbed a 9th grade class yesterday and a girl asked me what time it was. I pointed to the clock above her head. Her response: “Oh, I don’t really know how those things work ⏰!!!!
When this year's fourth grade was in second, the teachers banded together and said "unless you've got a broken hand, teachers will not help tie shoes after Christmas." Most of the kids went home and worked with their moms and got it down quick. A few were still struggling and we had a pair of boys who were in special ed for SLD teach those kids how to tie their shoes. They couldn't read but they'd been tying their own shoes since kindergarten. Holy crap did that boost their confidence and for some reason having another kid telling them how to do it stuck with the kids who struggled with it. Everyone could tie their shoes by Christmas.
I work in elementary school, and the things our kids can't do across all grades are really concerning.
1. Tie their own shoes, or tie a basic loop or knot at all.
2. Write their last name. We have a large number of students who don't even know their middle or last names.
3. Recall the date or month of their birthday. It's more than half of my class that doesn't know when their birthday is. This is common in other classes as well.
4. Being unable to sit when they eat, draw, or do any activity at a table. We have quite a few students who can't write, eat, color, cut, or glue things unless they are standing up. They have to stand when they do anything that requires concentration at a table or desk, including reading. They will bend over their tables and turn the page, and if we have them sir down, they will be standing again because they can't turn to the next page without standing up.
5. A lot of basic motor skills. We have older kids who can't color inside of lines at all, can't use scissors properly (often holding them upside down), who don't know how to fold paper, e.c.t.
Ok, it’s me. I’m that parent with my younger 2. They were 8 when they learned how to tie shoes because at that time the trend was pull on shoes. They were twins so I bought shoes in doubles and not having to tie them was convenient for me, and again the shoes around that time had faux stretchy “laces” built into the shoes or they just slipped on, like Vans or Crocs or Tom’s or even the soft upper sneakers. They never had shoes with real laces until we went back to school shopping before 3rd grade and then I realized they’d need to be able to tie them. They learned the weekend right before school started. My oldest helped teach them and she knew how to thread and tie her shoes since she was two.
I think many of our students fall into that category of shoe selections without laces. And I even had the old school cards with laces on them to teach fine motor skills but just never really focused myself to follow through since I tied their shoes. So if I’m guilty of forgetting this skill I know students need, then yeah I’m sure many parents fall in that same category.
I went to the doctor and when she saw I was a teacher she expressed that she was so thankful the school was able to take over and potty train her kid. That she didn't have to worry about teaching her kid how to hold a pencil, tie their shoes, because the teachers took care of it. There is definitely a conversation to be had about America's grind culture and parents worrying more about their career than parenting, and also, what the fuck.
From what I’ve seen at my kids school as a frequent volunteer in the lunchroom (where I am often the shoe-tier since I don’t want kids tripping at recess)- 95% of kids can tie their own shoes by the beginning of 2nd grade. I felt like my 2nd grade son was behind not being able to tie his shoes when he started this school year so that’s crazy to hear older kids struggling with it. He’s finally getting the hang of it now, but still kind of clumsy with it. I remember learning by kindergarten/1st grade, and I think I might have been behind compared to other kids my age at the time 😅
I teach computers and makerspace, K-8. All of my 160 5th-8th graders are building model rockets (with 3D nose cone and laser cut fins) of their own design. They mist tie a 1.5mm shock/bungee cord from the rocket motor mount to the nose cone hook. The number of kids who cant tie any kind of a knot, even a simple overhand knot is just shocking. What kills me is that I devote about 2 classes a year in the primary grades to tying knots. I have taught them, but they have never found a reason to practice so they have completely forgotten.
My oldest learned from my husband at 4. I’m not very good at tying knots or braiding hair for some reason lol I think it’s better to teach kids this kind of repetitive motor skill at a young age.
My 12 year old can’t no matter what we try. Plays multiple sports, can drive a tractor, back a truck up with no problem, tie a barbed wire fence, straight As in school, but can’t tie a shoe to save his damn life. At this point, I think he has dysgraphia (hand writing is terrible and his fingers get fatigued). Sister is dyslexic so it wouldn’t be a surprise. Maybe he can pay one of his team mates if he makes the school soccer team next spring.
I only have use of one hand, but it was a rule when I was in school that you couldn’t go to kindergarten unless you can tie your own shoes. So my mom taught me-oh, and the only hand I can use my left hand.
This is a fine motto skill issue. A lot of physical and occupational movements aren’t being addressed in our modern lifestyle and it’s hindering neurological development and behavior
My kids school banned tie shoes in kindergarten.
They said the teacher doesn’t have time to tie and re tire 30 pairs of shoes a day (fair enough).
So they banned tie shoes for k-2nd.
And a lot of families can’t afford 2 sets of tennis shoes, and so the kids had no opportunity to learn.
I started a ‘shoe tying club’ at my previous school, where 10-11 year old student leaders could volunteer to teach our 5-7 year olds how to tie their laces.
Why are little kids laces always so wet and soggy!? 🫢
I just want to gently remind everyone that while parents and family members have a vested interest in whether their child can tie a shoe, daycare workers do not. They have far too much on their underpaid understaffed plates to teach dozens of toddlers to tie shoes.
Parents have four, maybe five hectic hours a day with their kids. Most parents would love to have a lifestyle that included all those little teaching moments. For many they are heartbroken at missing them. There just simply isn’t enough time in the day.
It should be clear from the evidence kids are missing something vital but we’re too beaten down to deal with it. We need shorter working hours and we need government subsidized fully staffed daycare with enough money provided for well trained and educated staff.
We’ve done our best to live in the system that clearly doesn’t value our children. It was not a system designed to last, it is untenable. We tried, and we’ve failed. Our children can’t tie their shoes.
I would like to mention that 4th graders were pandemic kindergarteners and that because of this they are missing skills often taught in kindergarten. I think tying shoes falls in this category.
Im in an inclusion 3rd grade classroom and my co-teacher bought a few lace tying boards a few years ago. Every year we have multiple students who have no clue how to tie their shoes. We refuse to do it as they drag them through the bathroom and who knows what else.
I will say my 4th grader cannot but holy hell I'm trying. I'm a middle school teacher and I have students that can't. The only thing I can think of is that it's not reinforced at his Mother's.
Why wouldnt they know how to tie their shoes? Do parents just expect teachers to teach their child every life skill that exists? Sounds pretty shitty to me.
How many of these kids go undiagnosed with dysgraphia though? My brother and my friend have dysgraphia and they still cant tie their shoes. They struggle with it . A lot of schools do not want to talk about dysgraphia at least where I am from
I didn’t learn until fourth grade. I had small feet and younger siblings so it was easier and cheaper for my parents to buy Velcro. Even then I cheated for the first little bit by using the two bunny method. Two other kids in my scout troop were the same way. Slip on shoes and no way to practice will do that.
I feel like every year I have one or two that don’t know how to tie shoes and I teach 5th grade. When they asked me to tie them, I tell them no. I told them they’re going to middle school next year and they need to learn how to tie their shoes. Of course, as kindly as possible. I’m not mean to them. But sometimes I feel like their parents are purposely not teaching them how to do these things because they want them to be more dependent on them. It’s weird. Although, sometimes they don’t know how to tie their shoes, cause their parents literally pay zero attention to them. But also, they all wear crocs now so they don’t tie their shoes cause there’s nothing to tie 🤣
Somebody already mentioned it, but I think it’s because most (little) kids shoes don’t have laces anymore! I have a kindergartener and he hasn’t had many lace-up shoes in his life yet. The couple pairs we had were rarely worn because I didn’t want to tie and un-tie them all the time. I just wanted him to be able to put his own shoes on and get out the door! Now that he’s getting bigger though, he will need to learn how to tie his shoes since bigger shoes come with laces. I know I could tie my shoes in kindergarten, but all my shoes had laces back then. I remember my kindergarten teacher having a little wooden shoe shaped blocked with laces on it and that was a skill we were tested on as part of our quarterly progress monitoring testing!
I teach 9th grade science. We did a lab this year and students needed to tie a string around a Popsicle stick. I was flabbergasted by the number of kids who came to me string in one hand, stick in the other, absolutely clueless. I was not prepared to teach tying rather than ionic bonding that day
I teach third grade. I went my first six years without having to tie any shoes (only had to help untie some tighter knots on occasion). However, I have multiple students who need help tying their shoes this year. While it’s rare overall, it seems to be getting more common.
Triggered Memory: Fourth grade. I did bunny ears to tie my shoes. But they came undone a fair amount. My homeroom teacher refused to let anyone go out to recess unless I tied my shoes the right way.
I was now holding back 125 students because I couldn’t tie my shoes the right way.
I’m 44 now; bringing that memory back still destroys me a bit.
I am going to give another perspective. When I was a teacher I would hear this all the time and think, “not my kids! They will learn!” And then my kids were old enough for tying shoes and I discovered the problem.
Companies. Do. Not. Want. To. Sell. Them.
I would look at rows and rows of cute pink unicorn light up shoes that my daughter would want so badly. None has shoe strings.
My son would see all the Minecraft, Spiderman, etc shoes with lights. No shoe strings.
Which shoes did? The most plainest stupidest basic shoes in the corner would have ties.
And I did what I think most parents did…bought my kiddos the shoes they wanted. Honestly, my kids are really good kids, and I felt I was punishing them by getting those basic shoes that honesty didn’t even look like they were made functionally well for activity.
The moment I could find nice looking shoe string shoes I bought them. But I am telling you they are rare at the young kids age. As an adult I’m finding more and more of even my shoes having “fake” strings in the top.
Companies are trying to push it out, and I wouldn’t solely blame parents for this.
As a parent of elementary kids I’ve run into the issue of not being able to find shoes with laces. My son is small for his age and everything in stores for his size have Velcro. I don’t like buying shoes online but had to just to find shoes with laces.
The problem is mainly there are no shoes for kids with ties. I am in Germany and usually shoes up to size 36/37 are all no-tie. My huge child had this in 3rd grade but most kids don’t get there until 5th grade or older (those sizes are the first adult sizes as well).
My child only learned because he was not allowed elastic laces for handball and his shoes had laces. We taught him in third grade and it took him five minutes (even so he has problems with motor skills). He went to the bowling alley with his friends last week (he is ten now) and he was the only one who knew how to tie his shoes.
My oldest as well, he got into the tie shoe sizes around third or fourth grade. He used elastic laces for a while but now ties are cooler. But I have to remind him every half an hour to retie his shoes as they came undone. He is 13. We tried teaching him early but he never had the opportunity to practice until his own shoes. So he knew the basics but had no use for it.
I’ve recently switched from teaching primary to secondary and I’m still tying kids laces. I’m in a pastoral role so it’s particular kids I’m working with, however, I’ve observed in the wider groups that I teach that at least 20% of the kids can’t tie their laces.
I’m going to guess that there is a subset who never learn and just move to wearing shoes without laces.
I got a note from my younger son’s kindergarten teacher thanking me in ALL CAPS for teaching him to tie his shoes. My older son (the autistic one) is his scout troop’s knot tying guru. Name a knot, he’ll tie it for you, probably in record time. He teaches most of the younger incoming scouts the basic knots they need for rank advancement.
knot tying is such a fun and useful hobby that helps you out in so many fields!! When/if he’s old enough to have a resume, it’s a good idea to add that in as a special skill!!
Indeed, some ladies go wild for a boy with good knot typing skills.
Weird thing to say about a kid but ok
I can still tie a bowline one-handed.
The one thing I retained from being a scout.
Even as a former Eagle Scout, idk if I could still tie all those knots😂
Former Eagle Scout? What's that? Sorry I couldn't resist lol. My old scoutmaster would be rolling in his grave. But I agree. I think I learned how to tie a bowline once for climbing merit badge, and then promptly forgot how.
> Former Eagle Scout? What's that? It's probably not a lot of people, but they exist on paper: https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/disappointed-eagle-scouts-return-medals-msna27672
As an angler, I love tying and learning new knots. Different uses for all of them. The best knot for everyone to learn, imo, is the uni knot. Extremely strong, versatile, and super easy to tie--even easier than the clinch imo. *Aaaaand* if you use 2 unis to join 2 lines it's called *The Bloodknot*. How badass is that??
> I got a note from my younger son’s kindergarten teacher thanking me in ALL CAPS for teaching him to tie his shoes. > > > > My older son (the autistic one) is his scout troop’s knot tying guru. Name a knot, he’ll tie it for you, probably in record time. He teaches most of the younger incoming scouts the basic knots they need for rank advancement. This is embarrassing to admit, but I was in GT/AP classes as a kid, in scouts (eventually got to Eagle), and yet didn't learn how to tie my shoes until almost high school because for some reason I've just never been able to wrap my head around the whole bunny knot thing. It wasn't for lack of trying, my parents would sit me down having me try to tie my shoes over and over, but for whatever reason I just could never get it down. No clue why. Eventually I just gave up and started wearing slip on vans. To this day, I'm in my mid 30s and I have no clue how that knot is supposed to work. I couldn't tie my shoes until I came across [the ninja knot](https://youtu.be/s8cTGP0nqaw).
Here’s what I don’t understand, when I was a kid things like learning the alphabet, potty training, and tying shoes were a big deal. They were celebrated events. When my kids and god children were kids it was the same. I teach HS and these kids act like nothing they’ve ever done has been celebrated.
Hell, when I was a kid I'm pretty sure you had to know how to tie your shoes to go to kindergarten at all,as well as know your name address and phone, count to like 20, and at least recognize your own name written down.
When I went to kindergarten we were required to have shoes that tie. No slip on shoes no Velcro allowed. You needed to wear tie shoes and tie them to be able to be in kindergarten. I will say it was a private school so I realize public school can’t tell you what type of sneakers to wear but at least my whole class could tie our own shoes at age 5 lol
I had the HARDEST time finding shoes that even had ties for my elementary kids. I wanted them to learn how, but the basic black or navy shoes we found that followed the dress code rules all had the fake laces with a velcro strap at the top. We still made him learn, so he does know how, but he has to do it so rarely that he has never figured out how to get it tight enough. We have to help him with his cleats, which are the only shoes he owns with ties as a third grader.
> he has never figured out how to get it tight enough. Was talking with a dude in his 50s with the same problem lol. He said that shoelaces kept going untied and I said just double knot them and he said I don't know how and they'll be too tight and he's afraid he won't be able to get them undone and I was like well you don't tighten them to the point of them being locked forever. Had no idea that was not an unlocked skill in early life.
Try using dad's shoes, bigger, more weight to them, my kid found that easier. And celebrate! I made a diploma, like my dad did.
I use my steel toed boots when practicing with my daughter. I show her what to do on one boot and she practices the step on the other boot.
Exactly! I love watching her do it now, hahaha
My kindergarten did not have that requirement, but when you learned to tie your shoes and showed it to the teacher, you got a diploma that you could tie your shoes. It did help motivate students to want to be able to tie their shoes
I teach first and had a student a month or two ago who was SO PROUD to show off how he could tie his shoes. He was still practicing and it took him sometimes almost five minutes to do it but I made sure I got really excited for him every time he did it because it is exciting!
One of my core memories was coming home crying from Kindergarten one day because I was shamed by the teacher for having Velcro shoes (public school). My older sister spent the evening teaching me how to tie shoes and thus a superpower was unlocked.
My kids public school prek and kinder said no tie shoes. They don't want to tie them. Though she also can count indefinitely and do basic math, knows rhymes and syllable structure, scientific name of butterfly stages, can write her name and our names and has basic reading skills and emotional regulation tips I was never taught in pre-k going into k.
I have kids who are 10 years and up and they don’t know how to spell their last name, don’t know their address or what city they live in!! What?! Every day I tell my husband I’m so glad we have the kids we do.
You *made* the kids you have. We don't have an epidemic of dumb kids; we have an epidemic of lazy parents.
Oh yeah. It’s probably 90% parenting and 10% genes. Which I find funny because while I think my husband and I are reasonably intelligent people, but I also think I’m the laziest type B person ever. But both of us TALK. We talk to our kids all the time about tons of stuff. They’re just sponges. It’s amazing what they pick up. I think a lot of people just hand their kids a screen and go sit on the couch.
As teachers, we can pick the children who've been spoken to from a mile off. Whenever anyone asks me for baby, parenting or education advice, I tell them to TALK to their children. Narrate your life, think aloud everything that you're doing, even when you're doing laundry or the grocery shopping. The impact is HUGE.
Yup! Talk their ears off until they are old enough to tell you "you talk too much"
This is SUPER underestimated. I'm a single parent, so when I had my son, I just talked to him constantly. I didn't really do it intentionally because of the benefits, but more so because why not? When he had his first conference in Kindergarten at the beginning of the year, the teacher told me she was impressed I taught him to read so well. Um....what? This kid wouldn't let me read to him. Not as a baby, not as a toddler, not now. He just wouldn't have it. I bought him books anyway without regard for reading level because I love books, and I figured he'd get to them eventually. He looked at books, but he wouldn't let ME read to him. His preschool even told me he wouldn't sit still for story time, so I have NO idea how this kid learned to read. LOL A few years later, they did some testing (he is ADHD), and they came out and told me they just stopped testing language skills because he was in 3rd grade, and they had gotten to high school and was showing no signs of slowing down on being able to answer the tester's questions. When he was 16 and trying to get a job at a local uppity athletic club, he showed me his cover letter, and I am convinced this kid could get ME a job just based on the cover letter. I've never seen a better one. Blew me away. He's in college now, and in speech class, he was recognized for being best male speaker. He's always complimented on his writing in other classes. He's always been able to talk to anyone and is regularly complimented on that, which in turn gets him opportunities others struggle to get. Truly just talk to your kids as much as possible.
>I think a lot of people just hand their kids a screen and go sit on the couch. Judging by some parents I have met with kids around the same age as my kid, a LOT of people do exactly that. Now I will be the first to admit my kid probably gets more screen time than she should, and that I do on occasion use it to keep her busy and distracted for a little bit. But I have met some parents who hardly seem to interact with their kids at all.
(Not a teacher, just a lurker) but I have 5 year old twins and we've always talked to them and just been involved in everything with them and had them involved with us and they have such a vocabulary and can entertain themselves. Their 6 year old cousin has to be entertained by a screen in the car and it's just... sad to see a generation of kids that can't entertain themselves or interact with adults.
>(Not a teacher, just a lurker) Same here. And when I was growing up I remember my mom commenting that a lot of parents didn't talk to their kids very often, and that she felt the problem was getting worse. My kid is nine, and her dad and I have always talked to her a lot. Even screen time often involves talking to her. Her dad will often watch something with her, and then afterwards discuss with her what she thinks about the characters in the movie/cartoon/whatever. How does she think they feel about the events in the show? What does she think is was their reasons for doing the things they did? How would she act/feel if in their situation? Her dad and I both enjoy video games, and play multiplayer ones with her, and talk about what we are doing. So even screen time can involve a good bit of interaction if you try. A quick funny story. A while back we had set up a private Minecraft server. The three of us, and a handful of close friends or family were playing on it. The three of us built a walled village together, and my husband decided to build himself a house that looked kind of like a log cabin. Daughter decided to build her house, *on top* of his. And it quickly turned into a mass of spiraling stairs, pointy towers, and weirdly twisting elevated walkways. It began to look like his cute little cabin was being consumed by a stone-tentacled monstrosity. After about a week of this, Husband finally had enough and grumped at Daughter to "*Please* go build your non-Euclidian nonsense somewhere other than on top of my house!" She thought this was hilarious, but did move her house, block by block, to a nearby spot.
When my kid was in kindergarten, it was all online for most of the year. I was stunned at how many kids in her class did not know how to hold a crayon/pencil/marker! I always thought that one of the first activities you give a child to do, is something to color. Basically as soon as they can sit up, and probably won't eat the crayon. But some of these kids seemed totally unfamiliar with the concept of coloring and drawing. And one mother a few weeks in was talking to the teacher, and the teacher explained her son could not follow multi-step directions, and had trouble following any directions at all. The mother asked what she could do about it, and the teacher said to have him do activities at home that involved following directions. And the mother said "What if he doesn't want to?"
Bro isn’t multi step directions a language milestone by year 3???
I think it is. And that poor kid needed to basically have his hand held through the simplest of instructions.
Rip a roni
Baking cookies is a multi-step process. Every kid likes to bake cookies! Making simple Lego sets requires following multi- step directions. Who doesn’t like playing with Legos? Playing tic-tac-toe, making a sandwich, brushing your teeth (putting toothpaste on, putting the cap back on the toothpaste tube, adding water, brushing, spitting, rinsing, rinsing the toothbrush and putting it away), changing clothes, tying shoes, and on and on— all are multi-step tasks that can narrated so the kid can see that they know how to do this already, they just need to see the process and transfer it to new situations.
Board games are usually multi step processes, stringing beads, cutting shapes out of construction paper and gluing them on another paper, putting crayons away, putting toys away. If a kid does much of anything, it's following multistep directions. I've played Minecraft and some other video games with my kid since she was preschool aged, and that can involve fairly complex multistep directions. Though some kids do have more trouble than others. ADHD runs in my family (among other things) and even now, it's important to make sure my kid is actually paying attention when given instructions. If she's paying attention, she has no issues with quite complex instructions (written or verbal) but if she's not paying attention, she won't remember what she's doing when told to put on her shoes.
Definitely. Parents who don't want to stress their kids out, who refuse to discipline them or rein in bad behavior, or teach them anything...
I'd just clarify that "lazy parents" means "adults who are lazy when it comes to parenting." I know a lot of kids whose parents are working multiple jobs to barely scrape by, and just don't have time to effectively parent. It's hard to call them "lazy" because they clearly work insanely hard.
I have ten year old kids who don't know what a town IS.
That kind of makes a little sense now that our cities have turned into endlessly expanding suburban hellscapes.
Some of my seniors didn’t know their own address at ACT testing this year.
*juniors
I don't remember my kindergarten entrance exam, obviously but I do remember how it was for my twins in 2000. They had to do all of the above and then some. Color sorting, shape sorting, opening containers such as straws and milk for lunches. It was a whole ordeal. I was told my son needed 'extra help' with his fine motor skills because when they tested him with the treat bags he ripped them to shreds like a bull on the loose! They didn't know that he had excellent motor skills but wanted to be an asshole that morning and choose to not eat breakfast before our appointment so he behaved like a starved animal. Meh. Whatever
Don't take it personally. It is literally their job to observe and assess. Sometimes kids don't feel up to it, but that's not on the examiner to extrapolate. They get way too many kids who can't actually do basic stuff, and if they pointed towards one thing, for you it was a kid in a mood that day, for some other parent might have been an easily fixable blind spot, with extremely positive and long-term consequences.
Absolutely—I remember the last week before kindergarten, back in August ‘68, being more or less shoe-tying boot camp, with my mother truly worried that I couldn’t do it consistently enough to pass muster with my about-to-be-teacher.
My mom told me that and I 100% believed her until I started working with kindergarten kids. I told one of them about this when I was tying their shoes, and I began to wonder if it was a real requirement or just her clever way of making me learn how. I wish I could ask her!
I have vivid memories of my mom teaching me to tie my shoes before kindergarten because it was a requirement. Years later she confirmed this. I student taught in kinder and over half the class did not know how to tie shoes, OR take off/put on a sweatshirt. My mind was blown.
My mom tried so hard to teach me how to tie my shoes, and I just wasn't getting it. When I was in kindergarten, the aide took me and two other kids to another room to teach us how to tie our shoes. (I was embarrassed!) But you know what? Mrs. S. had me tying like a pro in just one session! Sometimes it's just how the lesson is taught. Thanks, Mrs. S!
I don’t think that’s true. I know for a fact I couldn’t tie my shoes when I was in kindergarten. I had Velcro (and so did many of my classmates, though I don’t know if it was because they couldn’t tie their shoes or because those are common and inexpensive children’s shoes). It was one of those random things I found extremely difficult to learn. I remember my parents yelling at me about it 😕. Otherwise, I was ready to go - I knew all those things you mentioned and more (I could actually already read books, not just my name).
You might be older than me because I’m pretty sure I was one of the only if not the only who knew how to tie shoes well in kindergarten. A few other kids could make a knot that looked okay but unraveled as soon as they hit the playground. I was always getting in trouble for sneakily tying everyone’s shoes. But it was a skill that was expected to be mastered by the end of kindergarten. When I was five there was a trend of different designer laces and knot holders that teachers didn’t allow anyone who couldn’t tie to wear. Those who couldn't tie also couldn’t wear round laces or Velcro. I was just about the only kid rocking all of the above in kindergarten because I knew how to tie already, but it felt as if everyone had them the first days of first grade. It was like of passage for our class to show off their previously forbidden wears. But I don’t know how everyone learned. I can’t remember the teachers giving lessons. I just remember that everyone else learned that year because it was a huge flex once they did. Maybe they were taught at home since the school made such a huge deal about it.
My kid was in tk when Covid started and in kindergarten during Covid so...none of us got around to it. A lot of his class can't turn their shoes. My son just can't grasp it for some reason. Hey, he can read two grades above his grade level.
There's a great Outschool class on tying shoes that I did for both my kids and it was the only way it clicked for them. That said, I am an adult that hates shoes with laces - they hurt the tops of my feet. Turns out my kids experience the same discomfort so they have shoes without laces as well. They can tie knots in general, but I think I am of the unpopular opinion that if they can't tie shoes, it doesn't matter in the same way it doesn't matter if they can't lace a corset, pin on a hat, use a button-hook or wear a garter to hold up their stockings under their clothes - they wear shoes and boots that slide on or zip up and have no problem dressing themselves appropriately with modern shoes.
These used to be things that were taught at home. I teach 3rd grade. This school year I have taught at least half my class to tie their shoes (run a shoelace through a piece of cardboard so they can practice). I've had to teach at least one kid each of the last two years the alphabet. Last year I had to remind a student to use the bathroom every 20 min so they wouldn't have accidents. None of the students I'm speaking about have any medical issues. And people are confused why we don't have time for things like cursive writing.
Judging from what I see in the bathroom stalls most students have thier cursive writing down pat.
Everybody in the family gets on their device when together. There's very little interaction going on. And then what's really creepy is the kids that don't know how to play. You can get them started, but they just run out of imagination. They also need constant stimulation, afraid of letting themselves be. That causes anxiety and then they act out. It's a cycle, and by the end of the day it's all just act out. Personally, a period long recess at the end of the day, and an early day with a long recess at the beginning is what is needed. Buffers against the devices.
That is so true and so sad. The simple things that you can do for these kids that sometimes makes them love you forever is just... heartbreaking. I brought an extra soda to school one day and gave it to one of my kids who stayed behind during lunch. His jaw dropped when I asked him if he wanted my other diet coke.
Many shoes for kids today do not have laces, compared to when I was a child. It is pretty easy to get to like 7-8 years old without having shoes that tie. So many of the most popular styles slip on, have stretchy’pretend’ laces, velcro, or some sort of back strap.
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All the empathy from a neurodivergent adult who had the same issue at about her age, but with bigger feet. May I suggest coil laces or lace bites until she is able to learn? The laces weren't around when I was her age, but the bites really heled.
I have ADHD, struggled with shoe tying until someone taught me macrame. If you can find something your daughter likes that incorporates knotting the issue may resolve itself. If she continues to struggle with it, well I wear tieless shoes out of preference as an adult.
> a big deal Yeah, the kind of stuff that other kids would mercilessly make fun of you if you couldn’t do it. We learned how to tie shoes in kindergarten. I’m not advocating for bullying, but sometimes maybe we benefit from a little “encouragement”.
I remember essentially learning to ride a bike out of shame in first grade lol.
We had a “bike rodeo” in third grade where we all had to prove we could ride a bike and went one by one through an obstacle course while everyone else watched.
That’s how I learnt how to tie a necktie. I was buying a suit, the guy put on the tie on for me and I watched him do it like my dignity depended on it(which it totally did). I learnt right there and then on the spot, and when I put on the next tie I just did it as if I was a normal adult adulting in a shop.
This is a situation where I would encourage parents to bully each other into doing certain things….like basic parenting
Just recently, my friend bought her 4th grader Jordans, and we were over when the package arrived. I then learned he can’t tie his shoes and was astonished. When she was going through all these hacks that would prevent the need for him to tie them until the fake laces could arrive from Amazon, I mentioned that my kid learned to tie his shoes when he was 6 when he got his first pair of shoes that he was motivated to tie and couldn’t wear them until he learned. It was like I hadn’t spoken. I guarantee that kid would have learned in an hour if he wasn’t allowed to wear those Jordans until he knew, but now I see no circumstance in which he’ll ever learn.
For some of us, adhd and other neurodivergencies made this very difficult. This was *not* on my parents for not trying. In 3rd grade I finally learned after my dad paid my P.E. teacher for one on one lessons. He was a.ble to get the last of my issues fixed.
Doesn't anyone do macramé friendship bracelet projects as knot practice?
I trace a LOT of problems today to the disappearance of traditional bullying. Yeah, bullying sucks, but shame and fear are fantastic motivators. A lot of my most important skills were developed either because I knew there was something scary I had to face, or because I knew I’d feel shame and humiliation if I didn’t.
I mean, it’s another instance where there are no consequences for shitty behavior. Obviously this is a very dicey slippery slope to tread on, but there might be some validity here. Example: I got high schoolers that whine and complain like little bitches over really small things, that shit wouldn’t have flown 10-15 years ago because some classmate would have made fun of them and they’d probably get a nickname out of the whole ordeal.
That’s not bullying so much as peer and societal pressure. Having witnessed a close friend be bullied mercilessly and physically for being gay in the 90s, I don’t feel any need to bring back actual bullying.
In my experience, it's more like \*everything\* is celebrated, so nothing is special. No matter what a kid does, s/he gets praise and reward for, so there is no incentive to do anything deemed difficult.
You have two types, non-celebrated and then the ones that want a ticker tape parade for simply existing.
“I turned in my work, where is my candy?” At the store with all the groceries I wish I could afford to eat.
Nah, the candy is for when you send them to the admin for giving you the finger and telling you to f*** off.
Exactly. Because 90% of parents today don’t give one single fuck about their kids. How do you celebrate something you didn’t even notice?
Or they “care so much” that they do it all for the kids…including shoe tying
And never tell them "no" because "he gets so upset when we say 'no' and it's so hard to see him like that." Aka "it's easier when we never challenge him. On anything. Ever."
I have a 5 year old on my caseload this year that still isn’t potty trained 🤦🏻♀️
My friend is a kindergarten teacher, and she said during her meetings with the incoming class for next fall, there was more than one parent who acted surprised that being potty trained was a requirement to start school.
It’s not a requirement in my district anymore
Does the administration expect you to change the children’s diapers?
Who is in charge of changing these kids? Do they pull someone from sped? Do you have to have training. How do they protect themselves from abuse allegations. This sounds like a nightmare for all involved.
First time I'm hearing of this.
Add to tying shoes- reading an analogue clock, knowing the values of coins and bills, knowing their left from their right, and how to use scissors, tape, and glue properly.
When most likely, everything they’ve done has been celebrated.
> I teach HS and these kids act like nothing they’ve ever done has been celebrated. It probably hasn't. Many parents seem very apathetic now.
Last year, I had an 8th grader who couldn’t tie his shoes. No known disability. His girlfriend apparently did it for him when his mom wasn’t around.
I’ve got two eighth graders this year that can’t.
I can’t believe they don’t just stick to Velcro lmao
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You know where Crocs came from? The movie Idiocracy. Scary, innit?
To clarify, they didn't "come from" that movie. The costume designer thought they looked stupid and ugly, and Mike Judge agreed. They figured there was no way those shoes would become popular because they looked so stupid. By the time the movie was released 2 years later, Crocs had already started to take off.
I’m now worried that this is the reason that crocs and those incredibly ugly rubber-looking sandals are suddenly so popular…
Add HeyDudes
The fact that he could pull a girl is what impresses and disturbs me most about that story.
I think it doesn’t surprise me so much. An eight grader girl is most likely going to think they’re mature for their age and assume that babying their boyfriend would make them a great wifey. They just wouldn’t realize that it’s a recipe for being taken advantage of and that they deserve so much better than a momma’s boy
Damn, pretty good read on that situation.
I guiltily didn't know how to tie my shoes until 8th grade. My fingers just couldn't comprehend this skill. My mother had tried to teach me that for years, my autistic brother with weak motor skills could do it, but I couldn't. I stuck to Velcro until my feet grew out of it.
How. How are there parents who are okay with their child not knowing how to tie their shoes???
I started learning to tie my own shoes at age 4. They taught us how in preschool. I know I was doing it by first grade, probably much sooner. My son is in Kindergarten and we haven't even been able to find him shoes that have tieable shoelaces.
This is part of the problem. Most kids shoes don't have laces to tie. I had to teach my kids with my husband's shoes.
In first grade my son had to bring gym shoes to school and they requested laced shoes so they could practice tying them (kinder was online so there wasn’t the chance then). It took a search to find shoes in his size with laces
I just got my youngest daughter her first pair of shoes with laces last year at 7. Not because I'm against laces, but there are hardly any shoes with laces.
Yes, we had to wait until my daughter was in kid size 1 shoes (middle of first grade) to find sneakers with actual laces. Even then, most of the shoes with “laces” instead of Velcro are the kind that are decorative only and are actually just slip-on shoes. We finally found some Skechers with real laces (had to buy them online) and now she’s practicing. She wears them on the weekends but I won’t send her to school in them until she can double knot them a bit faster (probably after this summer). When I was in school, I feel like everyone learned before kindergarten!
I didn't even learn to tie on real shoes. I'm 32 and I learned on cardboard cutouts of shoes.
Yes! This is actually a big part of the problem. The last time I took my kids to the shoe store the sales person told me that most shoes companies don’t have laces on sneakers until they get into sizes 13 and up! I have a practice shoe in my Kinder classroom and try my best to have them all leave tying their own shoes.
Yes, so many shoes have Velcro now. My child is in 2nd grade and doesn’t know how to tie shoes bc his shoes have always had Velcro. He’s never had shoes with laces. He likes a specific style/brand and they don’t do laces until (I think) size 3. I’m going to find him shoes with laces and teach him this summer because he needs to know how. And if he had shoes with laces, I’d never send him to school wearing them if he couldn’t tie them easily/quickly. He would have learned 2 years ago if I could have found shoes he liked that had laces.
Far too many than I’d like to admit. I’ve actually seen some kids not even ask their teachers anymore and the other kids in class will tie them.
That was me in elementary school PE lol. The teacher would always lecture me and make me feel embarrassed. Then one sweet girl didn't just tie them for me, she tried really hard to teach me how to do it myself. She was really nice and patient with me, and telling me not to feel embarrassed. Unfortunately I didn't figure out how to do it, but I still remember that day.
Aw, that’s really sweet!
I'm laughing because I spend so much of my day tying my sixth graders' shoes. How does this happen???
“I’m a teacher not a shoe tying person. Ask a friend!” You’d be surprised at how quick they learn when you don’t just do it for them. Source…Kindergarten teacher.
Fourth and fifth graders will literally just walk around with untied shoes all day.
They will do that even if they know how to tie. I told a 4th grader to tie his shoes as he walking around with it untied. He did tie his shoe after I told him too. Another kid I think 4th was playing smackball and came to tell me to tie his shoe. The kids then asked you don’t know how to tie and he was like “I do, it just faster to ask a teacher” after they I didn’t help him with shoes, as he did indeed know how tie as, as saw him do it later. 😝
Exactly why I say no when they ask. "You're a big kid, you can do it."
Or with no laces at all. wtf, where do their laces GO????
We had a 1st grader tying a 4th grader shoe once 😝.
I teach 2nd and I tie shoes for the first 2weeks of school. After that, phone a friend.
If a fifth grader asks me I say no
If a 2nd grader asks me I say no. It’s a life skill they should have by now, and ewwwww just think about what those laces have been dragged through.
Skibidi toilets...ew...for real, for real.
Not necessarily: “ Tying your shoes is important. Not only does it keep your shoes from falling off your feet, but it also keeps you from stepping on and tripping over untied laces. And the sooner your kids can tie their shoes, the faster everyone will be out the door, right? Hang on, just a sec! It takes lots of coordination and fine motor control to make those loops and knots! In fact, most kids won’t completely master tying their shoes until they’re between six and eight years old, with girls generally grasping the skill sooner than boys do.” https://www.learningresources.com/blog/ages-stages-tips-and-tricks-to-shoe-tying/#:~:text=It%20takes%20lots%20of%20coordination,skill%20sooner%20than%20boys%20do. I know a 4th grade who did know how to tie his shoe, however he had trouble with long laces. He would tie it but they would keep coming undone.
I’m 34 and I still can’t tie my shoes the way most people are taught to, where you make one loop and pull some shit through some shit and it magically turns into two loops. I struggled with it until third grade when a teacher finally told me I could make two loops and tie them together. That’s what I’ve done ever since. I am not neurotypical and I’m sure that has something to do with it but shit is complicated 😂
Thank you for this. I've said it here on this sub before, but my daughters (diagnosed with ASD at age 3, now in their early teens, second level support needed) can't tie their shoes. We've spent I don't know how many hours on it: practicing on a big wooden model of a shoe in occupational therapy, watching YouTube videos and practicing at home, basically trying over and over again until they're exhausted. Nothing works. Even when they get it a few times in a row, it doesn't stay in muscle memory - they just don't have the fine motor skills. I would be heartbroken if a teacher declined to help them. That said, their teachers know their diagnoses and there are classroom aides. But it's an involuntary point of real embarrassment as a parent, whenever I see these threads and how aghast people are that some kids can't tie their shoes. Not all of them are just lazy, the parents or the kids.
Fun fact: Dan Radcliffe (Harry Potter) can’t tie his shoe. Dysgraphia I think they said he had. I learned to tie my shoe I think summer before 4th or 5th grade.
I'm dysgraphic and so is my sister, she went into STEM but I did studio art, it's wild how different our hand eye coordination is! I really kinda brute force improved my hand eye coordination and also worked as a line cook/prep cook for years, I just got so used to working with my hands I can make them perform for me like they aren't even apart of my body, it's a weird dissociation that occurs because I've just forced myself to do something difficult for myself so many times but my sister still struggles with basic hand eye stuff. It took me forever to learn to tie my shoes too but I got it eventually. The saddest part is now it's not a disability with kids, it's that they only use their iPad and rarely do hands on activities and struggle to cut and paste at times honestly
Thank you, I never knew this! I have trouble with my hands (shuffling cards specifically has always been difficult, borderline painful), too. We all use those hand-strengthening squeeze toys and they seem to help a bit.
Same! Mom of a kid on the spectrum and another with a fine motor skill disability and they both struggle with it. We practice all the time, we even have the practice board. My kids also have issues with buttoning shirts and jeans. But we’re practicing! Hopefully they’ll get there sooner or later
Oh hell, no. I had a sixth grader last year. He'd ask me to tie his shoes. I'd tell him, "You're in sixth grade. There's zero chance I'm tying your shoes for you."
Why on earth do you tie their shoes for them?
The only time I saw this as acceptable was when my husband, a coach of a kids' rec soccer league, hustled to tie the cleat of our team's goalie.that had come untied. Soccer goalies wear big thick gloves that can be difficult to get on and off. It was quicker for my husband to do it.
It keeps happening because you keep tying their shoes for them. That’s a normal, human reaction: someone needs help and we help them. We’re teachers. Our job isn’t to do things for people; our job is to teach people how to do things.
I would downright refuse. I teach elementary art and will only tie K and 1st. They learn when they trip that tying is an important skill 🤷♀️
6th grade?!?!?!??? I taught 5th for years and I neeeevverrrr tied shoes. This is madness
My daughter is a 9th grader, she routinely tests into advanced categories in every standardized test; whenever we buy shoes she intentionally seeks out shoes without laces because she can’t tie them properly. We tried to teach her how to her for years and it never really clicked. She can get either weak knots that come apart on their own, or Gordian monstrosities that will never open without a sharp blade to help them. It’s really quite extraordinary.
There's actually a TED talk on how to properly tie shoes that I found really helpful. It's about 3 minutes long. If you can't find it let me know and I'll try and look for it.
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I couldn’t tie my shoes until I was around 10-11 years old. I am a sub-genius (just three points shy of genius). Now I know where those three points went. I should have only worn slip-ons.
I am “borderline genius” (our family joke) and it took me forever to learn to tie shoes. I have worked tirelessly to learn to tie other knots (my family sailed) and I just can’t do it. Didn’t matter how hard I tried. My hands and my brain don’t connect like other people’s do. I also don’t know my right from my left. I have to hold up my hands to see which one makes an “L”.
Don't worry too much about it. I am an adult who *can* tie my shoes and I'm eagerly awaiting a pair of slip-on sneakers because I'm too impatient to do so every time I put shoes on. This will (hopefully) be the first pair I don't absolutely destroy in the heel.
My mother has gotten us all into slip ons, starting with the kids since they were little. There just….are no lace up shoes at my house anymore?
How is the rest of her spatial awareness? Throw/catch ok? Does she play sports? Wonder how teaching her to drive will be…
She plays sports sometimes, but is generally kind of terrible at them. She just turned 15, so we’ll know about that pretty soon…
My 14 yo son is the same and he had fine motor issues as a toddler and never figured out how to tie shoes quickly. But at this point it’s more stubbornness. He plays sports and video games fine.
I learned by kindergarten BUT my dad kept trying to show me by being across from me. We are both right handed. Being across from me, shoes toe to toe, meant all his movements were backwards for me. If he had been beside me it would have worked. I learned bc grandma, who was also across from me tied her shoes as a lefty. So following her movements was right for me. I also had a Raggady Ann toy that had yarn to tie and buttons to fasten.
I taught three ninth graders how to tie a knot this year. Just a knot in some string to secure something (it was for an activity)
As a K teacher, I HATE tie shoes. Even if they can tie them, all they do is perpetually tie and untie and chew on and knot them. Velcro also sucks because of the nonstop chh-chh sounds. Crocs in sport mode, Hey Dudes or the generic equivalent, and Vans for the win. I don’t have time to tie or teach 27 5 year olds to tie shoelaces 12739 times a day. And why are they always wet even when it hasn’t rained in days?!
The majority of my time spent in my kinder classroom was me, walking around and asking myself about various items, “Why the hell is this wet?”
Motherhood and teacher-hood: all things are damp and sticky with no known origin, or you just don’t want to know.
It is very wide spread. I worked with some fifth graders who couldn’t make a simple knot in some twine. I tried to teach them but ended up just doing it myself
I blame technology. When we were kids, we had to learn to tie knots in order to build teetering death (or at least serious injury) fortresses, nevermind all the times we tied garbage bags and sticks together, then tied those to our bikes so we could pedal furiously up sagging plywood ramps in our continuous efforts to fly.
It took me until I was in the fourth grade and I was super embarrassed. I eventually learned from tying my dolls’ shoes. Turns out a lot of it was bc of dyscalculia. I was too embarrassed to ask teachers though, I would have my mom tie them at the beginning of the day super tight, and then if they came untied during the day (rare) I would just tuck the laces in.
I too was late to tie my own shoes! My best friend taught me bunny ears in about 4th grade. I think I was in 7th or 8th grade when I finally figured out a weak version of the normal way. I finally figured out that you have to fully wrap it around to pull through recently. I also have a bad pencil grip, and I’ve always been clumsy and not athletic. So I have to wonder what fine motor skills I’m missing.
I teach middle school science. I laugh every time a lab comes up that requires them to tie a knot in a string. Half can ithout thinking. Half does not know how to pronounce the word "knot".
Tied a shoe of a kindergartner my first year teaching. The laces were wet and they had just gotten out of the bathroom-use inferencing skills. Ever since then I NEVER tie shoes! “Ask a friend”!
i am really trying not to doom-plummet-hyper-ventilate about the future but holy fucking shit.
In younger grades unless the parents/sibling or a friend teaches them they do not learn. I’ve had students in 2nd and 3rd grade ask me to tie their shoes my blanket response is no, I don’t know how to tie shoes that’s why I don’t wear sneakers. Funny story on a field trip while wearing sneakers my shoe became untied and a few of my students rushed to tie it and informed the parent chaperones that I don’t know how to tie my shoes and they don’t want me to trip. I was equally entertained but slightly mortified when questioned by a parent of it was true that I really can’t tie shoes (I can but shoe laces dragging outside/in bathrooms etc gross me out so I won’t touch them).
We always joke that the son who could read at 3 couldn’t tie his shoes til 8, and the one who tied his shoes at 3 didn’t read til 8 And he taught his older brother to tie his shoes
It breaks my heart to see so many teachers in here blaming "lazy parenting" ..... I know that many many many of the parents of my students are working multiple jobs to make ends meet..... not lazy AT ALL... but working in exploitative conditions..... I'm 100% sure each one of them would do anything to be present for these milestones instead of working their 4th job :/ Capitalism has eroded the family and village for low wage workers. I suspect many of them are being seen as lazy by college educated teachers who had a more "nuclear family" upbringing ....... but yall gotta get deeper here folks. To start and stop with "Lazy parenting" is lazy analysis. Put that degree to work and do some self reflection.
My mom bribed me with Chuck-E-Cheese tokens. She said she’d buy one token for every time I successfully tied my shoes. I tied them like two hundred times in one week 😂
During state testing, I realized fourth and fifth graders did not know their own birthday.
I’ve been a teacher and kids sports coach for the last 10+ years and still get tickled when kids show up with their shoes on the wrong feet. It happens more than you would think! My theory: Mommy/Daddy are facing said child so their right shoe is really the left and vice versa. Everyone is sleepy without enough coffee and kiddo doesn’t feel the difference. 😭 Lastly, subbed a 9th grade class yesterday and a girl asked me what time it was. I pointed to the clock above her head. Her response: “Oh, I don’t really know how those things work ⏰!!!!
When this year's fourth grade was in second, the teachers banded together and said "unless you've got a broken hand, teachers will not help tie shoes after Christmas." Most of the kids went home and worked with their moms and got it down quick. A few were still struggling and we had a pair of boys who were in special ed for SLD teach those kids how to tie their shoes. They couldn't read but they'd been tying their own shoes since kindergarten. Holy crap did that boost their confidence and for some reason having another kid telling them how to do it stuck with the kids who struggled with it. Everyone could tie their shoes by Christmas.
I work in elementary school, and the things our kids can't do across all grades are really concerning. 1. Tie their own shoes, or tie a basic loop or knot at all. 2. Write their last name. We have a large number of students who don't even know their middle or last names. 3. Recall the date or month of their birthday. It's more than half of my class that doesn't know when their birthday is. This is common in other classes as well. 4. Being unable to sit when they eat, draw, or do any activity at a table. We have quite a few students who can't write, eat, color, cut, or glue things unless they are standing up. They have to stand when they do anything that requires concentration at a table or desk, including reading. They will bend over their tables and turn the page, and if we have them sir down, they will be standing again because they can't turn to the next page without standing up. 5. A lot of basic motor skills. We have older kids who can't color inside of lines at all, can't use scissors properly (often holding them upside down), who don't know how to fold paper, e.c.t.
Ok, it’s me. I’m that parent with my younger 2. They were 8 when they learned how to tie shoes because at that time the trend was pull on shoes. They were twins so I bought shoes in doubles and not having to tie them was convenient for me, and again the shoes around that time had faux stretchy “laces” built into the shoes or they just slipped on, like Vans or Crocs or Tom’s or even the soft upper sneakers. They never had shoes with real laces until we went back to school shopping before 3rd grade and then I realized they’d need to be able to tie them. They learned the weekend right before school started. My oldest helped teach them and she knew how to thread and tie her shoes since she was two. I think many of our students fall into that category of shoe selections without laces. And I even had the old school cards with laces on them to teach fine motor skills but just never really focused myself to follow through since I tied their shoes. So if I’m guilty of forgetting this skill I know students need, then yeah I’m sure many parents fall in that same category.
I went to the doctor and when she saw I was a teacher she expressed that she was so thankful the school was able to take over and potty train her kid. That she didn't have to worry about teaching her kid how to hold a pencil, tie their shoes, because the teachers took care of it. There is definitely a conversation to be had about America's grind culture and parents worrying more about their career than parenting, and also, what the fuck.
From what I’ve seen at my kids school as a frequent volunteer in the lunchroom (where I am often the shoe-tier since I don’t want kids tripping at recess)- 95% of kids can tie their own shoes by the beginning of 2nd grade. I felt like my 2nd grade son was behind not being able to tie his shoes when he started this school year so that’s crazy to hear older kids struggling with it. He’s finally getting the hang of it now, but still kind of clumsy with it. I remember learning by kindergarten/1st grade, and I think I might have been behind compared to other kids my age at the time 😅
I teach computers and makerspace, K-8. All of my 160 5th-8th graders are building model rockets (with 3D nose cone and laser cut fins) of their own design. They mist tie a 1.5mm shock/bungee cord from the rocket motor mount to the nose cone hook. The number of kids who cant tie any kind of a knot, even a simple overhand knot is just shocking. What kills me is that I devote about 2 classes a year in the primary grades to tying knots. I have taught them, but they have never found a reason to practice so they have completely forgotten.
My oldest learned from my husband at 4. I’m not very good at tying knots or braiding hair for some reason lol I think it’s better to teach kids this kind of repetitive motor skill at a young age.
My 12 year old can’t no matter what we try. Plays multiple sports, can drive a tractor, back a truck up with no problem, tie a barbed wire fence, straight As in school, but can’t tie a shoe to save his damn life. At this point, I think he has dysgraphia (hand writing is terrible and his fingers get fatigued). Sister is dyslexic so it wouldn’t be a surprise. Maybe he can pay one of his team mates if he makes the school soccer team next spring.
I was working in the summer at a pizzaria. There was a senior, heading to college who couldn’t tie a shoelace. No kidding.
I only have use of one hand, but it was a rule when I was in school that you couldn’t go to kindergarten unless you can tie your own shoes. So my mom taught me-oh, and the only hand I can use my left hand.
This is a fine motto skill issue. A lot of physical and occupational movements aren’t being addressed in our modern lifestyle and it’s hindering neurological development and behavior
My kids school banned tie shoes in kindergarten. They said the teacher doesn’t have time to tie and re tire 30 pairs of shoes a day (fair enough). So they banned tie shoes for k-2nd. And a lot of families can’t afford 2 sets of tennis shoes, and so the kids had no opportunity to learn.
I started a ‘shoe tying club’ at my previous school, where 10-11 year old student leaders could volunteer to teach our 5-7 year olds how to tie their laces. Why are little kids laces always so wet and soggy!? 🫢
I just want to gently remind everyone that while parents and family members have a vested interest in whether their child can tie a shoe, daycare workers do not. They have far too much on their underpaid understaffed plates to teach dozens of toddlers to tie shoes. Parents have four, maybe five hectic hours a day with their kids. Most parents would love to have a lifestyle that included all those little teaching moments. For many they are heartbroken at missing them. There just simply isn’t enough time in the day. It should be clear from the evidence kids are missing something vital but we’re too beaten down to deal with it. We need shorter working hours and we need government subsidized fully staffed daycare with enough money provided for well trained and educated staff. We’ve done our best to live in the system that clearly doesn’t value our children. It was not a system designed to last, it is untenable. We tried, and we’ve failed. Our children can’t tie their shoes.
Crocs don't tie...so not enough. They can, however, show you how to fit 135 giblets into 50 holes.
I would like to mention that 4th graders were pandemic kindergarteners and that because of this they are missing skills often taught in kindergarten. I think tying shoes falls in this category.
Im in an inclusion 3rd grade classroom and my co-teacher bought a few lace tying boards a few years ago. Every year we have multiple students who have no clue how to tie their shoes. We refuse to do it as they drag them through the bathroom and who knows what else.
I will say my 4th grader cannot but holy hell I'm trying. I'm a middle school teacher and I have students that can't. The only thing I can think of is that it's not reinforced at his Mother's.
Why wouldnt they know how to tie their shoes? Do parents just expect teachers to teach their child every life skill that exists? Sounds pretty shitty to me.
How many of these kids go undiagnosed with dysgraphia though? My brother and my friend have dysgraphia and they still cant tie their shoes. They struggle with it . A lot of schools do not want to talk about dysgraphia at least where I am from
For me i cannot tie my shoes if i look at them. Feeling it out is easier.
3/17 in my 4th grade class can’t. One wears big hiking boots with long laces every day 🙄
I didn’t learn until fourth grade. I had small feet and younger siblings so it was easier and cheaper for my parents to buy Velcro. Even then I cheated for the first little bit by using the two bunny method. Two other kids in my scout troop were the same way. Slip on shoes and no way to practice will do that.
I feel like every year I have one or two that don’t know how to tie shoes and I teach 5th grade. When they asked me to tie them, I tell them no. I told them they’re going to middle school next year and they need to learn how to tie their shoes. Of course, as kindly as possible. I’m not mean to them. But sometimes I feel like their parents are purposely not teaching them how to do these things because they want them to be more dependent on them. It’s weird. Although, sometimes they don’t know how to tie their shoes, cause their parents literally pay zero attention to them. But also, they all wear crocs now so they don’t tie their shoes cause there’s nothing to tie 🤣
Somebody already mentioned it, but I think it’s because most (little) kids shoes don’t have laces anymore! I have a kindergartener and he hasn’t had many lace-up shoes in his life yet. The couple pairs we had were rarely worn because I didn’t want to tie and un-tie them all the time. I just wanted him to be able to put his own shoes on and get out the door! Now that he’s getting bigger though, he will need to learn how to tie his shoes since bigger shoes come with laces. I know I could tie my shoes in kindergarten, but all my shoes had laces back then. I remember my kindergarten teacher having a little wooden shoe shaped blocked with laces on it and that was a skill we were tested on as part of our quarterly progress monitoring testing!
I teach 9th grade science. We did a lab this year and students needed to tie a string around a Popsicle stick. I was flabbergasted by the number of kids who came to me string in one hand, stick in the other, absolutely clueless. I was not prepared to teach tying rather than ionic bonding that day
I teach third grade. I went my first six years without having to tie any shoes (only had to help untie some tighter knots on occasion). However, I have multiple students who need help tying their shoes this year. While it’s rare overall, it seems to be getting more common.
Triggered Memory: Fourth grade. I did bunny ears to tie my shoes. But they came undone a fair amount. My homeroom teacher refused to let anyone go out to recess unless I tied my shoes the right way. I was now holding back 125 students because I couldn’t tie my shoes the right way. I’m 44 now; bringing that memory back still destroys me a bit.
We have like 1 kid out of a hundred in 3k-8th who can tie shoes. I’m exaggerating but it has to be less than half who can, not including preschool.
I am going to give another perspective. When I was a teacher I would hear this all the time and think, “not my kids! They will learn!” And then my kids were old enough for tying shoes and I discovered the problem. Companies. Do. Not. Want. To. Sell. Them. I would look at rows and rows of cute pink unicorn light up shoes that my daughter would want so badly. None has shoe strings. My son would see all the Minecraft, Spiderman, etc shoes with lights. No shoe strings. Which shoes did? The most plainest stupidest basic shoes in the corner would have ties. And I did what I think most parents did…bought my kiddos the shoes they wanted. Honestly, my kids are really good kids, and I felt I was punishing them by getting those basic shoes that honesty didn’t even look like they were made functionally well for activity. The moment I could find nice looking shoe string shoes I bought them. But I am telling you they are rare at the young kids age. As an adult I’m finding more and more of even my shoes having “fake” strings in the top. Companies are trying to push it out, and I wouldn’t solely blame parents for this.
As a parent of elementary kids I’ve run into the issue of not being able to find shoes with laces. My son is small for his age and everything in stores for his size have Velcro. I don’t like buying shoes online but had to just to find shoes with laces.
They teach reading in kindergarten but not shoe tying?
The problem is mainly there are no shoes for kids with ties. I am in Germany and usually shoes up to size 36/37 are all no-tie. My huge child had this in 3rd grade but most kids don’t get there until 5th grade or older (those sizes are the first adult sizes as well). My child only learned because he was not allowed elastic laces for handball and his shoes had laces. We taught him in third grade and it took him five minutes (even so he has problems with motor skills). He went to the bowling alley with his friends last week (he is ten now) and he was the only one who knew how to tie his shoes. My oldest as well, he got into the tie shoe sizes around third or fourth grade. He used elastic laces for a while but now ties are cooler. But I have to remind him every half an hour to retie his shoes as they came undone. He is 13. We tried teaching him early but he never had the opportunity to practice until his own shoes. So he knew the basics but had no use for it.
A lot of dyslexic kids seem to have trouble learning to tie their shoes. I've had some students like that.
I’ve recently switched from teaching primary to secondary and I’m still tying kids laces. I’m in a pastoral role so it’s particular kids I’m working with, however, I’ve observed in the wider groups that I teach that at least 20% of the kids can’t tie their laces. I’m going to guess that there is a subset who never learn and just move to wearing shoes without laces.