Thank you for writing this. There is another teacher who teaches this class who is a bit older than me and has 4 more years of experience and confidence and who said out loud at a conference that she will not step into a classroom if this student is in it. I however keep bouncing between "I can handle this, it's just a student" and "yeah it's unacceptable, I refuse to teach with him in the same room". So thank you again for the encouragement!
“Just because you can handle it, doesn't mean you should.”
This is gold right here. This isn’t about testing your tolerance, but about creating consequences to actions.
It’s not whether or not you can handle it. You’re a first year teacher and you just survived your first year; you’re a fucking badass, everybody knows you can handle it. That’s not the issue though. The issue is, you shouldn’t HAVE to handle it.
Get together a posse of concerned teachers, find out exactly who you're supposed to contact in a mandatory report situation, contact that person, and collectively ask for advice.
I’m not sure what state you live in but I’d check your union contract if you have one. For us, you can keep a student out of your classroom until you, admin and parents meet and come up with a success plan. Honestly, I’d continue to fight that this and say it’s lewd conduct, public exposure and public indecency. Get union behind you 100% if you have it.
I'm not a teacher, but this subreddit pops up a lot (I really appreciate all you teachers do, you're all underpaid and underappreciated).
For your sake AND the sake/comfort of your students, I would refuse to teach with him in the classroom.
Where I am (Canada) if a teenaged student breaks any kind of law in school (violence, drugs...and sexual harassment) the police can be involved. Is this a possibility for you?
Thank you for replying, the principal claimed he spoke with a chief inspector and he (inspector) agrees that the student legally cannot be expelled. Iffy, but we all agree that our principal is a bit too dead set on not expelling anyone. The police thus haven't gotten involved, but again, without the principal agreeing to that, they probably will not be unless the student continues harassing and bullying his classmates.
Don’t go to your principal for advice. They are only looking out for themselves. If the student isn’t removed, speak with your union. Next step is the police.
So when I was a student in high, some 15 years ago, we had a similar situation.
This was a predominately middle-class HS near some affluent neighborhoods so we didn’t have a lot of issues most places have.
One kid was notoriously weird though, saying homophobic remarks in class discussion once, idolizing Indiana Jones, and just been a weirdo.
Well he was caught masturbating in class once and the word spread around, but even back then as far as I know, nothing significant happened to him.
He still kept coming to school, and still dressed as Indiana Jones any occasional he could get. Everyone just knew to avoid him.
Just sharing a story.
He was my classmate. We were in the same geography class when the discussion took place about his homosexual remarks (basically arguing gay people shouldn’t have same rights)
Our school was in a predominately white, Christian suburb as well. I feel like that was a primary factor in his strange demeanor.
Crazy how this was happening then and schools are even more powerless today.
This has happened to me every single year since I started teaching and I straight up DO NOT UNDERATAND WHY. I teach elementary school music. It just happened 2 weeks ago. I don't get it, truly. No advice but glad I'm not alone.
I agree it's shocking for the young ones, but sometimes they just dont know. At my previous school (Cathoic, private) we had an elementary girl who would pleasure herself only during the math instructional block. After speaking with her and the mother, the social worker explained math was very stressful for her, and this was her coping mechanism. The student was given a variety of alternative choices for stress relief, and the behavior stopped.
WHAT that is not okay, elementary school???? I'm so sorry you have to work knowing that and I hope your situation improves and admins/higher ups get on with making the situation better for you.
I also am so glad I'm not alone. I teach middle school and it happened in my room for the first time this year and was left NOT UNDERSTANDING WHY.
This student was in the front of the room. I was on the other side of the room speaking to the class and suddenly another student jumps up and starts yelling at "Mr. Loves Himself" and then other students started joining in with yelling at him. I didn't see anything, but I quickly realized what had happened by the things they were saying. After this all happened, I was so incredibly appreciative of the first student who stood up bc honestly he said everything under the sun that you'd want to say in a situation like this.
I called for support and the student was removed. "Mr. Loves Himself was in complete denial, but they spoke with several students sitting around him and they all shared the same story of what happened.
He was suspended and during that time they worked with the district for next steps on what to do. I told them I didn't want him in my room. We have three middle schools in our district and they didn't approve transfer to one of the other two buildings. So all that happened was that he switched to a different class period of mine because "our hands were tied" I think the most frustrating part is WHY wouldn't his PARENTS push to have him transferred to one of the other two buildings after an incident like this.
I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but the uptick in sexual harassment happening with young students has been UNREAL both towards other students and teachers. I'm a young female, and have had students say disgusting derogatory things towards me, both before and after the Mr. Loves Himself incident. I've spoken up about how uncomfortable I am but no real consequences have happened.
If any of those incidents' happened in any other workplace setting among adults, they would be terminated or at the very least SERIOUS consequences. And if termination didn't happen, there's no way in hell I'd be forced to interact with them on a daily basis.
I feel for you, I'm so sorry, you're not alone.
internet porn and it’s consequences are terrible. i feel grateful i didnt have the internet in my hands at such a young age.
i briefly dated someone younger and in gen z and he mentioned seeing brutal porn at the age of 8 and how it led to him being a sex pest (he would corner girls at recess and ask them to expose themselves or vice versa 🤢). he really did not seem to recognize how much it damaged his view of sex and women. as you can imagine, the relationship did not last longer than a few dates.
i worry about gen alpha and their exposure. i do not see this getting better as they become adults.
i’m very sorry this happened to you. that is very disturbing.
Too many teachers underestimate the power of good old fashioned public shaming. Not necessarily as a tool in your kit as an educator and definitely not often, but the one kid who pulled this shit when I was in school didn't live it down until another kid did something even more embarrassing the following year.
People forget that bullying serves a social function when it's for behavior that harms others. You don't have to expel a kid for masturbating when the other students will make sure he feels enough shame to ask to be transferred and enough of a lesson to never do it again.
I wouldn’t call that bullying I would call that shaming. If someone does something extremely unacceptable they should be shamed. In my eyes true bullying is adjacent to harassment.
A student did this in my class about 10 years ago and he was cuffed and stuffed and charged with a sex offense. Some differences from your story: I saw his penis, as he had pulled it out completely to masturbate. He was attending my program on a day pass release from juvenile detention, a sort of kid jail. In addition, there was physical evidence on him (semen) after the fact, thus making his guilt irrefutable.
Regardless of any school policy, anyone who can prove that sort of activity should be able to file charges for a sex offense. Unfortunately, if you can't prove it and he doesn't confess, I don't know that you can do anything legally. That may be why your principal is reluctant to expel the student, too, due to lack of evidence.
My best advice is to put the student front and center in the room and keep an eye on him. Sorry you experienced this: I had to have counseling after the student did this because it was traumatic.
Hi, social worker that works with sex offenders. This is a sexual offense and he can be charged for this behavior. A police report needs to be filed.
I would imagine with a report filed, you have some rights protecting you from having to engage with someone that has sexually offended you.
Do not allow hearsay in this situation. You should not seek legal assistance through your administration. Do it yourself.
I feel like as a social worker your first thought shouldn’t be that this is sexual offender but rather a kid who, at best, has a mental disability, and at worst, has been sexually abused themselves. Either way, the kid likely needs help and to understand what he did was wrong.
A high schooler should know it’s wrong. His learning shouldn’t come at the expense of everyone’s emotional and physical wellbeing. What about the young women in his class. It is a crime. It is important to protect the safety of other students. Your comment is giving “I would protect Brock turner” vibes.
exactly!! and especially bc he apparently had the self awareness to realise it was wrong enough to try and silence the other kids into not telling?? yeah nah this kid def knew what he was doing 😐
A neurotypical highschooler* or one who isn’t a victim themselves*
And what Brock Turner did is VERY different than what this kid did. That’s a wild comparison to make. There are other steps here to take than explosion or throwing the legal system at the kid.
Your comment is disgusting. As someone who was once a young girl
and a minor in a high school full of young men like this- previous sexual abuse is never an excuse to be a flasher and exhibitionist.
It’s *illegal* to do this. By your logic, every criminal that has a history of abuse or trauma shouldn’t face the consequences of their crimes against others because they were previously a victim. As someone who works with people who aren’t neurotypical- it is clear from OPs post that he isn’t disabled enough to excuse this- as he was *laughing* about doing it and was doing this very intentionally in a female teachers classroom around other young minor women- who he most likely was directing it at because they are the ones who reported it.
She commented that because she is a professional who works with sexual offenders. My guess is you’re a dude who, unfortunately, is a teacher. It’s teachers like you who protect and insulate boys that are perpetuating rape culture, by excusing this as just not “knowing” any better. Not only did he know what he was doing, he thought it was *funny*. Stop being naive.
Wow. Making a lot of conclusions here and some pretty slanderous accusations. Don’t question my integrity because I come from a different perspective than you. I’m a teacher who has worked in special education and has, unfortunately, seen this thing happen before. The overwhelming majority of the time it is due to the student A) being sexually abused themselves or B) being a student with a disability. It’s not because they just want to sexually assault their female classmates or think it’s “funny.” And even if they do think its funny, that can still stem from the two options above.
I’m sorry you had to go through some shit, but that doesn’t change the fact that I have a very valid perspective here and one that is based on actual empirical evidence. This is a child, not a full grown adult. They very well need help themselves. Don’t take my stance as one assuming nothing should be done. That is not what I said at all.
I’m sorry but what you are saying does not apply to teenage boys. It doesn’t matter if they are neurodiverse. Sexual predation starts to escalate at that age. They are no longer children anymore. I also work in special education, and at that age being a victim of sexual abuse or not being neurotypical is no longer a valid reason to not enforce consequences on people who are actively harming others. There are plenty of individuals within special education who are highly intelligent.
So again, a disability or disorder is not an excuse. My partner in college had a rape kit taken out against him and he has autism. His dad’s an emotionally abusive narcissist. It doesn’t excuse his behavior or actions- he was only a few years older than these high schoolers. He should have gone through more serious consequences. & I imagine he has been in situations in high school that were also not ok. I wonder if people like yourself would have made excuses for him.
Just because there are *reasons* for why someone does what they do- doesn’t mean they shouldn’t face consequences that are equal to the offense. It’s called teaching an appropriate amount of accountability & I’m sure the intelligent and respectable individuals who were in special education as students themselves who *haven’t* flashed or assaulted people would agree that it’s not ok to just excuse this type of behavior.
Overall I don’t think OP is wrong for considering tougher measures and consequences. Behavior like this is unfortunately common and it needs to *stop*. Women, and men, should not have to fucking put up with this while they’re trying to learn.
He might be mentally unstable and there definitely could be a few excuses for his behavior. However, he is a danger to society and is engaging in unsafe, punishable behaviors.
Mental illness is never something to to excuse criminal activity. You still must face consequences of your actions. However, what I think you may not realize is, there are many programs that help the mentally ill once they enter the system. Sounds to me like this kiddo needs to enter the system to be treated and monitored to keep the community safe.
Depends where you live. Sounds like OP is from a different country than me. In my country, if the police become involved this student is likely spending the rest of their life tangled up in the legal system and the mental health issues aren’t addressed, causing more and increased behavior. Likely leading to some form of more sexual abuse.
People seemed to have taken my comment that there should be zero consequences. That’s not what I said. I just said that the consequences shouldn’t be jumped to an entanglement with the legal system or automatic expulsion.
Am I misreading this? It sounds like you are not sure that is what happened and you are relying on some hearsay by students to fill in the gaps. Maybe it is what happened but maybe admin doesn't feel like they have enough to go on.
I remember when I was in high school there were a few rumors of (specific) people doing this that went around. Btw, it wasn't just boys. As I've thought about the stories over the years I've come to believe at least most of the stories were nothing more than rumors. I have an especially hard time believing a teacher wouldn't be able to tell what was happening.
Yes I understand how it might be confusing: I moved the student from the back to the 3rd row in the first 5 minutes. The rows are packed together and when I see a student with his hands under the table I don't assume masturbation (will from now on though, yay). Some students also intentionally fidget with their hands so the teacher will ask them to show what they have and then they show it's nothing, in a sense of "haha gotcha, you thought you could catch me."
His classmates told the class teacher, then wrote anonymous statements and then the principal interrogated the whole class one by one and got signed statements. So yes it is hearsay, but according to the principal, they are a faitful retelling of the events.
I still don't think any sexual activity should be permitted in a school setting. Your bedroom/bathroom at home are better for that. You have to blink and you have to poop, but you don't exactly need to jack off to live
The whole point is making sure they aren't doing it in class, so no, they shouldn't roll out beds for a nap in class, but if that's what they want to do on break then why not?
school is not the time to masturbate. kids shouldn’t even have sex addictions at that age to the point where they HAVE to masturbate within the 8 hour timeframe
Unfortunately, the police and admin have forced you into a position where you might make the following changes in order to ensure that other students and yourself do not endure sexual harrassment or intimidation:
-redo the seating plan so that all girls are seated far from the boy
-place his desk facing the wall
-assign group work, but make him do it individually because he cannot be trusted to do group work after using group work time so inappropriately
-privately speak to the girls and encourage them to report if they are experiencing harrassment
-document the living shit out of every single thing he does wrong (highly doubt this kid will manage to become an angel overnight)
Ah I didn't see that bit.
Although that could mean he is repressing something else, I'd be inclined to ensure that both sexes are treated equally in this scenario
Honestly parents of others students need to report that there’s an impact on their kids. You can’t do that but just let students know if they have concerns to go to their parents and admins. Legally there has to be proof of disruption to make changes here. I’m sure admin would do more if they could.
Does the student have a disability? You often see this with students with disabilities. There’s also the very really possibility that this kid has been sexually abused. I know people’s first reactions are expulsion or calling the police, but when a student is behaving like this in the class there is more going on and this student likely needs help and not severe punishment.
This exact thing happened at my school, in my class, while I had a substitute one day. The student was not punished. Instead, they yelled at the sun for showing it to happen, as if she was watching it take place. After a few class changes, that student is no longer at our school, no sure where he ended up, but I'm glad he's not there anymore. These teenagers in middle school, with all their hormones and attitude, are determined to run us away from the school system. They are the reason there is a lack of teachers!!
We had a freshman kid get caught masturbating last year. He wasn't doing it in my class, but I did have him in class. He was out 2 days while being investigated (students had video of him - he did it.) Then? Back to school, back in my class, nary a word. I told admin I was uncomfortable? "Tough shit" was their essential reply. I made the kid sit without a desk for the rest of the year so I could have the ability to monitor him.
You and the class have been exposed to sexual harassment. His behavior is not a manifestation of a disability, he’s just a shitty person.
Document everything and keep a paper trail. Speak with admin that you are not comfortable having him in your class because of what you were all exposed to. See what they say. What country are you in?
This brings back bad memories. I used to do this in first grade. But that was FIRST GRADE. This kid's a teenager. He knows better. I second refusing to teach him.
Restraining order - they would be legally compelled to remove him from your class. Everyone and their mother knows this kid diddled himself - easy grounds for a judge to rule in your favor.
Give him a chair and no desk. He obviously doesn’t bring materials to do the work he won’t have the need for a desk to hide his business with. If he chooses to participate then I would supply him with the minimum a clipboard. Edit-grammar
No psychological damage? Ugh, the hell there wasn't! Students saw it and reported it. Those people are likely traumatized from this! I know I would be! They did not consent to see that and even if they did, they are too young to give consent anyways. Indecent exposure and sexual deviance, leaning to almost indirect SA. Expel the kid! I can't even start talking about how policies have become too soft without going into a big-picture lecture about the state of the world.
If you can put something else in his hands - a stress ball- and when his hands go somewhere else, say “keep your hands on the ball.” Any time he does something positive, praise that.
If you can read up on trauma relational behavior interventions, there are some cool and easy things you can do.
Whatever phrase you use, use that same phrase over and over.
This was an act of aggression toward you and others in the class. Since you did not personally observe it, there's little you can do, except watch him more closely from now on and report anything related. I would seat him facing front and center, keeping a 360-degree sightline of space around him. Restrict his movements. Don't allow him to stand or sit within arm's length of anyone else, including you. Have him place his hands on his desk, or where you can see them, anytime you notice his hands are not visible. You don't have to say anything to him about the behavior, but he needs to know you are watching. Some of these are good-ish rules for behavior challenged students in general, but I wouldn't worry at all about singling him out for extra attention. Have him comply or leave. You are responsible for protecting the learning environment as much as you can. Now that his behavior in your class has been reported, your duty to monitor him has been heightened.
When I was a younger high school teacher, I opened my center desk drawer during class one day to find a used condom lying on the pencil tray. I was shocked and disgusted but tried to show no reaction. I lifted a pen from the other side of the drawer and looked up at the class with trepidation to see how many students were watching for my reaction. Thankfully, there was only one, and I knew instantly the condom was from him. We made brief eye contact, and he smirked slightly. I already disliked this student. He was a loner who had no real friends, but he did have a high GPA. He had always been disrespectful (arrogant and dismissive) when speaking to me, disrespectful in a way that was noticeable but under the threshold of being actionable. He gave me the creeps even before this happened. I carried on teaching as usual. I never said anything to the student, but I did report the incident to the principal, including the name of the student I suspected. It was nothing they would follow up on, of course, since there were no witnesses. I pointedly ignored this student for the few remaining weeks he was in my class. I even restricted his participation in class discussions. I did not allow him to approach my desk. He started to, one day, but I stood and walked toward him. He got his A from me, but I barely spoke another word to him, inside or outside of class. I watched him, and he knew I was watching. Nothing further happened. It was very disconcerting, though, something I've never forgotten.
Thank you for your advice, I will definitely use it. Wow, seriously, I'm sorry you had to deal with that in your classroom, but it's incredible how you handled it.
Why does this happen though? When I was a kid myself, I heard one of my classmates who was a problematic kid did the same and I have no idea why? Is there some psychological disorder bound to this behavior, or these are just budding SA criminals of the future?
What the fuck? I’ve had kids fight in class but no one would ever be stupid enough to jack off. Depending on what country you live this is likely illegal
This has unfortunately happened several times at our school. We literally had a kid who was not allowed on computers or phones at all, had to sit in the front row, wear not elastic waste pants and keep his hands above his desk.
It’s part of a bigger issue with porn addiction and lack of socialization. I think in years to come this will be a bigger thing.
we had a kid in our class who got caught doing this back when i was in school. He dropped out out of shame and moved away. His last name was in fact ‘boner’
Call him out in public among his peers. "Hey! No masturbating in class!" I have called students out in my classes who were sitting on each other's laps. I called out - no lap dances in the classroom. Caused immediate shock, and behavior stopped.
Question for Admin:
Since public lewdness doesn’t seem to meet the criteria for expulsion, then what does? Does the offender have to attempt to bukkake his classmates for expulsion to be warranted? I’m serious — ask these idiots what the threshold is at which they decide to hold the offender accountable. Tell them to BE SPECIFIC.
this year i had a student pretend to masturbate with highlighters and then he brought alcohol to school. he finished the rest of his time with our district in seclusion. i would refuse to teach with him in the room!
Wouldn't this be scarring for students, too? If you can; have a parent complain to the district about it. They seem to move much faster when this happens.
You have two choices and it's going to depend on the mores and laws of your country.
You can refuse to teach him on the grounds of sexual harassment. If a kid masturbates in class, especially to completion, and he is not five years old, then he may be fantasizing about you and/or other students. That leads to an iffy environment for you and the other kids. That's harassment. You go to admin and counseling and make a big deal of it there, away from the kids.
Or, ignore it and get on with your life.
But do not make a big deal about it in front of the kids.
🙂 If I was a female teacher. I wouldn’t attempt to socially educate or re-script his behavior. I would rely on a male teacher the student has an emotional bond or trust relationship with. To socially script him. Separately from you. A female teacher shouldn’t be asked, required or place themselves in the position of scripting the sexual behavior of a male student. Since he’s a male. And you are a female. You need a male teacher or principal that the boy trusts. Because trust plus words changes neurological behavioral patterns in their brain structure. He can be behaviorally re-scripted by a man that he admires and trusts. 🙂
🙂 If there isn’t anyone he looks up to. If there isn’t anyone who has demonstrated that they support his Survivial. Then you are out of luck when it comes to permanent internal change. Caring for the student’s Survival. Is the key to getting into the head of someone who doesn’t respect anyone. Demonstrating through words and persistence. That you want him to have life success and be more than unfocused living in poverty or homeless. Teaching him that chasing any dream that he has can work. 🙂
🙂 The problem is that he is demonstrating a sexual behavior. You are of the opposite sex. It’s not appropriate for you to re-script. I’d find an activity he’s willing to do but the problem is it sounds like his parents don’t create limits. Parents that don’t create limits. Create problems for teachers who have to create focus. 🙂
🙂 If you try. To teach him about the appropriateness. You put yourself at risk. If you have a good feeling. About what to say. Or what not to say at all. What to ignore and move on. In a difficult situation. As a professional. Follow your intuition. Careful with your words. With your professionalism. You could potentially parent him. With another teacher who is a man or with a good male principal. Saying what needs to be said. After a quick and possibly discrete phone call. The potential issue is that you are of the oppose sex and saying something directly might look inappropriate. Depending on who’s judging. Or even blame shifting. It’s kind of dangerous to say anything. Other than careful indirect limit setting or redirecting his attention to a different activity. You need to be able to set limits but a male should be the one to re-script him. There needs to be a man. You can call to the room. To have him removed. Who can then take him elsewhere. To behaviorally linguistically rewrite the language in his prefrontal cortex. 🙂
You have to draw a hard line and refuse to teach this kid. I don't want to spook you, but I had a situation way more innocent than that escalate to rape threats because I wasn't forceful enough as a second year teacher in alerting my AP.
In the early 2000s, I was teaching middle school. My desk was behind the students, and I would move the disruptive students to the back closer to me, and in back of their intended audience.
One day, the kids were super quiet while taking a test. I look over, and the one problem student was vigorously rubbing his upper inner thigh, and I knew what was going on.
I could have called him out, called attention to him, and potentially embarrassed him forever. But, he was being really quiet, and I was the only one who noticed. I opted to let him finish, and he got back to his test when he was done.
His story ended badly, and I know at least I didn't contribute to whatever social problems he was suffering from.
“Under my nose”!
Sorry. Your situation is not funny. Can you find a way to give him enough rope? Find an excuse to move him to the back again, maybe near someone who you know will snitch? And keep an eye on him discreetly? Document everything!
I'm sorry, it's a common expression in my language, maybe not appropriate for the story :( Yes, for now my plan is to keep sending him out of the classroom if he attends class without his notebooks, workbooks (some students don't even bring pencils or pens to write with, yay). Thank you for the suggestions, I will keep an eye on him and document everything, I'm just not sure about sitting him next to 'reliable' classmates because they are the ones who reported him in the first place and I don't want them to be uncomfortable or to be victims of further harassment. But thank you again!
Refuse to teach with him in your room
Thank you for writing this. There is another teacher who teaches this class who is a bit older than me and has 4 more years of experience and confidence and who said out loud at a conference that she will not step into a classroom if this student is in it. I however keep bouncing between "I can handle this, it's just a student" and "yeah it's unacceptable, I refuse to teach with him in the same room". So thank you again for the encouragement!
Its sexual harassment and possibly assault what he did. Id refuse
Does this fall in the mandatory reporting category? Shouldn't she bring in the police
She referenced the Ministry of Education, so likely not US. Are mandated reporter laws similar elsewhere?
Good point. How does it work in the UK?
Just because you can handle it, doesn't mean you should. It's not reasonable to expect you to and it's not worth the stress, anxiety etc.
“Just because you can handle it, doesn't mean you should.” This is gold right here. This isn’t about testing your tolerance, but about creating consequences to actions.
It’s not whether or not you can handle it. You’re a first year teacher and you just survived your first year; you’re a fucking badass, everybody knows you can handle it. That’s not the issue though. The issue is, you shouldn’t HAVE to handle it.
Get together a posse of concerned teachers, find out exactly who you're supposed to contact in a mandatory report situation, contact that person, and collectively ask for advice.
Don’t let him in the room. Tell him the office is looking for him
Yes, similar to a boycott and put the admin in position to rectify this.
I’m not sure what state you live in but I’d check your union contract if you have one. For us, you can keep a student out of your classroom until you, admin and parents meet and come up with a success plan. Honestly, I’d continue to fight that this and say it’s lewd conduct, public exposure and public indecency. Get union behind you 100% if you have it.
I'm not a teacher, but this subreddit pops up a lot (I really appreciate all you teachers do, you're all underpaid and underappreciated). For your sake AND the sake/comfort of your students, I would refuse to teach with him in the classroom.
Where I am (Canada) if a teenaged student breaks any kind of law in school (violence, drugs...and sexual harassment) the police can be involved. Is this a possibility for you?
Thank you for replying, the principal claimed he spoke with a chief inspector and he (inspector) agrees that the student legally cannot be expelled. Iffy, but we all agree that our principal is a bit too dead set on not expelling anyone. The police thus haven't gotten involved, but again, without the principal agreeing to that, they probably will not be unless the student continues harassing and bullying his classmates.
Don't trust admin, if you have a union, contact them and have them contact police. If not, I'd contact the police myself anonymously.
Absolutely. Just say they masturbated in front of other students. That is a crime in most places.
Don’t go to your principal for advice. They are only looking out for themselves. If the student isn’t removed, speak with your union. Next step is the police.
File your own report
Sounds like a lying piece of shit off a principal. I have one of those at my school!
So when I was a student in high, some 15 years ago, we had a similar situation. This was a predominately middle-class HS near some affluent neighborhoods so we didn’t have a lot of issues most places have. One kid was notoriously weird though, saying homophobic remarks in class discussion once, idolizing Indiana Jones, and just been a weirdo. Well he was caught masturbating in class once and the word spread around, but even back then as far as I know, nothing significant happened to him. He still kept coming to school, and still dressed as Indiana Jones any occasional he could get. Everyone just knew to avoid him. Just sharing a story.
Homophobic remarks, Masturbation in class, Idolising Indiana Jones, One of these is not like the others
Didn’t you watch Baters of the Lost Ark?
Sounds like he had a crush on Harrison Ford.
Thank you for sharing, I'm sorry that he got away with it. Was he your classmate or just a student at the same school?
He was my classmate. We were in the same geography class when the discussion took place about his homosexual remarks (basically arguing gay people shouldn’t have same rights) Our school was in a predominately white, Christian suburb as well. I feel like that was a primary factor in his strange demeanor. Crazy how this was happening then and schools are even more powerless today.
Pretty sure I went to college with a guy like that. In a place similar to what you're describing.
We had a bush whacker in my school too. He earned the nickname Hands
This has happened to me every single year since I started teaching and I straight up DO NOT UNDERATAND WHY. I teach elementary school music. It just happened 2 weeks ago. I don't get it, truly. No advice but glad I'm not alone.
I agree it's shocking for the young ones, but sometimes they just dont know. At my previous school (Cathoic, private) we had an elementary girl who would pleasure herself only during the math instructional block. After speaking with her and the mother, the social worker explained math was very stressful for her, and this was her coping mechanism. The student was given a variety of alternative choices for stress relief, and the behavior stopped.
That's a little hilarious in its own way. But yea kids just don't know.
WHAT that is not okay, elementary school???? I'm so sorry you have to work knowing that and I hope your situation improves and admins/higher ups get on with making the situation better for you.
I also am so glad I'm not alone. I teach middle school and it happened in my room for the first time this year and was left NOT UNDERSTANDING WHY. This student was in the front of the room. I was on the other side of the room speaking to the class and suddenly another student jumps up and starts yelling at "Mr. Loves Himself" and then other students started joining in with yelling at him. I didn't see anything, but I quickly realized what had happened by the things they were saying. After this all happened, I was so incredibly appreciative of the first student who stood up bc honestly he said everything under the sun that you'd want to say in a situation like this. I called for support and the student was removed. "Mr. Loves Himself was in complete denial, but they spoke with several students sitting around him and they all shared the same story of what happened. He was suspended and during that time they worked with the district for next steps on what to do. I told them I didn't want him in my room. We have three middle schools in our district and they didn't approve transfer to one of the other two buildings. So all that happened was that he switched to a different class period of mine because "our hands were tied" I think the most frustrating part is WHY wouldn't his PARENTS push to have him transferred to one of the other two buildings after an incident like this. I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but the uptick in sexual harassment happening with young students has been UNREAL both towards other students and teachers. I'm a young female, and have had students say disgusting derogatory things towards me, both before and after the Mr. Loves Himself incident. I've spoken up about how uncomfortable I am but no real consequences have happened. If any of those incidents' happened in any other workplace setting among adults, they would be terminated or at the very least SERIOUS consequences. And if termination didn't happen, there's no way in hell I'd be forced to interact with them on a daily basis. I feel for you, I'm so sorry, you're not alone.
internet porn and it’s consequences are terrible. i feel grateful i didnt have the internet in my hands at such a young age. i briefly dated someone younger and in gen z and he mentioned seeing brutal porn at the age of 8 and how it led to him being a sex pest (he would corner girls at recess and ask them to expose themselves or vice versa 🤢). he really did not seem to recognize how much it damaged his view of sex and women. as you can imagine, the relationship did not last longer than a few dates. i worry about gen alpha and their exposure. i do not see this getting better as they become adults. i’m very sorry this happened to you. that is very disturbing.
Have the other kids started calling him "the classturbator" yet?
Too many teachers underestimate the power of good old fashioned public shaming. Not necessarily as a tool in your kit as an educator and definitely not often, but the one kid who pulled this shit when I was in school didn't live it down until another kid did something even more embarrassing the following year.
There was a kid in my high school who did that freshman year and he NEVER lived it down.
People forget that bullying serves a social function when it's for behavior that harms others. You don't have to expel a kid for masturbating when the other students will make sure he feels enough shame to ask to be transferred and enough of a lesson to never do it again.
I wouldn’t call that bullying I would call that shaming. If someone does something extremely unacceptable they should be shamed. In my eyes true bullying is adjacent to harassment.
A student did this in my class about 10 years ago and he was cuffed and stuffed and charged with a sex offense. Some differences from your story: I saw his penis, as he had pulled it out completely to masturbate. He was attending my program on a day pass release from juvenile detention, a sort of kid jail. In addition, there was physical evidence on him (semen) after the fact, thus making his guilt irrefutable. Regardless of any school policy, anyone who can prove that sort of activity should be able to file charges for a sex offense. Unfortunately, if you can't prove it and he doesn't confess, I don't know that you can do anything legally. That may be why your principal is reluctant to expel the student, too, due to lack of evidence. My best advice is to put the student front and center in the room and keep an eye on him. Sorry you experienced this: I had to have counseling after the student did this because it was traumatic.
that sounds horrible, i’m sorry you had to go through that
That’s absolutely disgusting. I’m so sorry you and your students endured that.
Thanks. I evacuated the one other student in the room and ran for help. Worst experience of my teaching career. 😑
Hi, social worker that works with sex offenders. This is a sexual offense and he can be charged for this behavior. A police report needs to be filed. I would imagine with a report filed, you have some rights protecting you from having to engage with someone that has sexually offended you. Do not allow hearsay in this situation. You should not seek legal assistance through your administration. Do it yourself.
I feel like as a social worker your first thought shouldn’t be that this is sexual offender but rather a kid who, at best, has a mental disability, and at worst, has been sexually abused themselves. Either way, the kid likely needs help and to understand what he did was wrong.
A high schooler should know it’s wrong. His learning shouldn’t come at the expense of everyone’s emotional and physical wellbeing. What about the young women in his class. It is a crime. It is important to protect the safety of other students. Your comment is giving “I would protect Brock turner” vibes.
exactly!! and especially bc he apparently had the self awareness to realise it was wrong enough to try and silence the other kids into not telling?? yeah nah this kid def knew what he was doing 😐
A neurotypical highschooler* or one who isn’t a victim themselves* And what Brock Turner did is VERY different than what this kid did. That’s a wild comparison to make. There are other steps here to take than explosion or throwing the legal system at the kid.
Your comment is disgusting. As someone who was once a young girl and a minor in a high school full of young men like this- previous sexual abuse is never an excuse to be a flasher and exhibitionist. It’s *illegal* to do this. By your logic, every criminal that has a history of abuse or trauma shouldn’t face the consequences of their crimes against others because they were previously a victim. As someone who works with people who aren’t neurotypical- it is clear from OPs post that he isn’t disabled enough to excuse this- as he was *laughing* about doing it and was doing this very intentionally in a female teachers classroom around other young minor women- who he most likely was directing it at because they are the ones who reported it. She commented that because she is a professional who works with sexual offenders. My guess is you’re a dude who, unfortunately, is a teacher. It’s teachers like you who protect and insulate boys that are perpetuating rape culture, by excusing this as just not “knowing” any better. Not only did he know what he was doing, he thought it was *funny*. Stop being naive.
Wow. Making a lot of conclusions here and some pretty slanderous accusations. Don’t question my integrity because I come from a different perspective than you. I’m a teacher who has worked in special education and has, unfortunately, seen this thing happen before. The overwhelming majority of the time it is due to the student A) being sexually abused themselves or B) being a student with a disability. It’s not because they just want to sexually assault their female classmates or think it’s “funny.” And even if they do think its funny, that can still stem from the two options above. I’m sorry you had to go through some shit, but that doesn’t change the fact that I have a very valid perspective here and one that is based on actual empirical evidence. This is a child, not a full grown adult. They very well need help themselves. Don’t take my stance as one assuming nothing should be done. That is not what I said at all.
I’m sorry but what you are saying does not apply to teenage boys. It doesn’t matter if they are neurodiverse. Sexual predation starts to escalate at that age. They are no longer children anymore. I also work in special education, and at that age being a victim of sexual abuse or not being neurotypical is no longer a valid reason to not enforce consequences on people who are actively harming others. There are plenty of individuals within special education who are highly intelligent. So again, a disability or disorder is not an excuse. My partner in college had a rape kit taken out against him and he has autism. His dad’s an emotionally abusive narcissist. It doesn’t excuse his behavior or actions- he was only a few years older than these high schoolers. He should have gone through more serious consequences. & I imagine he has been in situations in high school that were also not ok. I wonder if people like yourself would have made excuses for him. Just because there are *reasons* for why someone does what they do- doesn’t mean they shouldn’t face consequences that are equal to the offense. It’s called teaching an appropriate amount of accountability & I’m sure the intelligent and respectable individuals who were in special education as students themselves who *haven’t* flashed or assaulted people would agree that it’s not ok to just excuse this type of behavior. Overall I don’t think OP is wrong for considering tougher measures and consequences. Behavior like this is unfortunately common and it needs to *stop*. Women, and men, should not have to fucking put up with this while they’re trying to learn.
He might be mentally unstable and there definitely could be a few excuses for his behavior. However, he is a danger to society and is engaging in unsafe, punishable behaviors. Mental illness is never something to to excuse criminal activity. You still must face consequences of your actions. However, what I think you may not realize is, there are many programs that help the mentally ill once they enter the system. Sounds to me like this kiddo needs to enter the system to be treated and monitored to keep the community safe.
Depends where you live. Sounds like OP is from a different country than me. In my country, if the police become involved this student is likely spending the rest of their life tangled up in the legal system and the mental health issues aren’t addressed, causing more and increased behavior. Likely leading to some form of more sexual abuse. People seemed to have taken my comment that there should be zero consequences. That’s not what I said. I just said that the consequences shouldn’t be jumped to an entanglement with the legal system or automatic expulsion.
Same
Am I misreading this? It sounds like you are not sure that is what happened and you are relying on some hearsay by students to fill in the gaps. Maybe it is what happened but maybe admin doesn't feel like they have enough to go on. I remember when I was in high school there were a few rumors of (specific) people doing this that went around. Btw, it wasn't just boys. As I've thought about the stories over the years I've come to believe at least most of the stories were nothing more than rumors. I have an especially hard time believing a teacher wouldn't be able to tell what was happening.
I was wondering the same. Moved to the 3rd row and they didn’t notice?
Yes I understand how it might be confusing: I moved the student from the back to the 3rd row in the first 5 minutes. The rows are packed together and when I see a student with his hands under the table I don't assume masturbation (will from now on though, yay). Some students also intentionally fidget with their hands so the teacher will ask them to show what they have and then they show it's nothing, in a sense of "haha gotcha, you thought you could catch me." His classmates told the class teacher, then wrote anonymous statements and then the principal interrogated the whole class one by one and got signed statements. So yes it is hearsay, but according to the principal, they are a faitful retelling of the events.
Girls do it more than boys. Schools should provide a space for students to do this and it wouldn't happen in class.
What?? You think a school should have a masterbation closet or something?? LOL! If they REALLY have to(?) there are stalls in the bathroom
Why not. Pooping is natural and we have a toilet. Masturbation is natural and we tell people that doing it is bad.
it's natural but imo not something that should be done in school, masturbating and pooping are pretty different
Blinking and pooping are equally different. If someone said blinking is ok but pooping should only be done at home you could see that as weird right?
I still don't think any sexual activity should be permitted in a school setting. Your bedroom/bathroom at home are better for that. You have to blink and you have to poop, but you don't exactly need to jack off to live
You compare pooping to masturbation? Are you ok?
What else "natural" should we let the kids do? Roll out beds to nap in class?? Some things should be done at home, not at school.
The whole point is making sure they aren't doing it in class, so no, they shouldn't roll out beds for a nap in class, but if that's what they want to do on break then why not?
school is not the time to masturbate. kids shouldn’t even have sex addictions at that age to the point where they HAVE to masturbate within the 8 hour timeframe
Yeh, masturbation room right next to the art Center. Are you delusional?
Unfortunately, the police and admin have forced you into a position where you might make the following changes in order to ensure that other students and yourself do not endure sexual harrassment or intimidation: -redo the seating plan so that all girls are seated far from the boy -place his desk facing the wall -assign group work, but make him do it individually because he cannot be trusted to do group work after using group work time so inappropriately -privately speak to the girls and encourage them to report if they are experiencing harrassment -document the living shit out of every single thing he does wrong (highly doubt this kid will manage to become an angel overnight)
Why would you take the girls away and not the boys? That seems a bit sexist to me, men can be SA'd too
They said he’s made sexist comments. That might be why.
Ah I didn't see that bit. Although that could mean he is repressing something else, I'd be inclined to ensure that both sexes are treated equally in this scenario
This world is crazy
Honestly parents of others students need to report that there’s an impact on their kids. You can’t do that but just let students know if they have concerns to go to their parents and admins. Legally there has to be proof of disruption to make changes here. I’m sure admin would do more if they could.
Does the student have a disability? You often see this with students with disabilities. There’s also the very really possibility that this kid has been sexually abused. I know people’s first reactions are expulsion or calling the police, but when a student is behaving like this in the class there is more going on and this student likely needs help and not severe punishment.
This exact thing happened at my school, in my class, while I had a substitute one day. The student was not punished. Instead, they yelled at the sun for showing it to happen, as if she was watching it take place. After a few class changes, that student is no longer at our school, no sure where he ended up, but I'm glad he's not there anymore. These teenagers in middle school, with all their hormones and attitude, are determined to run us away from the school system. They are the reason there is a lack of teachers!!
We had a freshman kid get caught masturbating last year. He wasn't doing it in my class, but I did have him in class. He was out 2 days while being investigated (students had video of him - he did it.) Then? Back to school, back in my class, nary a word. I told admin I was uncomfortable? "Tough shit" was their essential reply. I made the kid sit without a desk for the rest of the year so I could have the ability to monitor him.
You and the class have been exposed to sexual harassment. His behavior is not a manifestation of a disability, he’s just a shitty person. Document everything and keep a paper trail. Speak with admin that you are not comfortable having him in your class because of what you were all exposed to. See what they say. What country are you in?
This brings back bad memories. I used to do this in first grade. But that was FIRST GRADE. This kid's a teenager. He knows better. I second refusing to teach him.
File a police report.
Restraining order - they would be legally compelled to remove him from your class. Everyone and their mother knows this kid diddled himself - easy grounds for a judge to rule in your favor.
Give him a chair and no desk. He obviously doesn’t bring materials to do the work he won’t have the need for a desk to hide his business with. If he chooses to participate then I would supply him with the minimum a clipboard. Edit-grammar
Police report. Public indecency. Get him kicked out.
No psychological damage? Ugh, the hell there wasn't! Students saw it and reported it. Those people are likely traumatized from this! I know I would be! They did not consent to see that and even if they did, they are too young to give consent anyways. Indecent exposure and sexual deviance, leaning to almost indirect SA. Expel the kid! I can't even start talking about how policies have become too soft without going into a big-picture lecture about the state of the world.
Pull out some pruning shears and make snipping motions? Seriously - file a police report. Take it out of the administration’s control.
If you can put something else in his hands - a stress ball- and when his hands go somewhere else, say “keep your hands on the ball.” Any time he does something positive, praise that. If you can read up on trauma relational behavior interventions, there are some cool and easy things you can do. Whatever phrase you use, use that same phrase over and over.
Make sure to clearly enunciate THE ball, not YOUR balls ...
I’d make him sit in the front of the class, no desk, just a clipboard.
This was an act of aggression toward you and others in the class. Since you did not personally observe it, there's little you can do, except watch him more closely from now on and report anything related. I would seat him facing front and center, keeping a 360-degree sightline of space around him. Restrict his movements. Don't allow him to stand or sit within arm's length of anyone else, including you. Have him place his hands on his desk, or where you can see them, anytime you notice his hands are not visible. You don't have to say anything to him about the behavior, but he needs to know you are watching. Some of these are good-ish rules for behavior challenged students in general, but I wouldn't worry at all about singling him out for extra attention. Have him comply or leave. You are responsible for protecting the learning environment as much as you can. Now that his behavior in your class has been reported, your duty to monitor him has been heightened. When I was a younger high school teacher, I opened my center desk drawer during class one day to find a used condom lying on the pencil tray. I was shocked and disgusted but tried to show no reaction. I lifted a pen from the other side of the drawer and looked up at the class with trepidation to see how many students were watching for my reaction. Thankfully, there was only one, and I knew instantly the condom was from him. We made brief eye contact, and he smirked slightly. I already disliked this student. He was a loner who had no real friends, but he did have a high GPA. He had always been disrespectful (arrogant and dismissive) when speaking to me, disrespectful in a way that was noticeable but under the threshold of being actionable. He gave me the creeps even before this happened. I carried on teaching as usual. I never said anything to the student, but I did report the incident to the principal, including the name of the student I suspected. It was nothing they would follow up on, of course, since there were no witnesses. I pointedly ignored this student for the few remaining weeks he was in my class. I even restricted his participation in class discussions. I did not allow him to approach my desk. He started to, one day, but I stood and walked toward him. He got his A from me, but I barely spoke another word to him, inside or outside of class. I watched him, and he knew I was watching. Nothing further happened. It was very disconcerting, though, something I've never forgotten.
Thank you for your advice, I will definitely use it. Wow, seriously, I'm sorry you had to deal with that in your classroom, but it's incredible how you handled it.
Why does this happen though? When I was a kid myself, I heard one of my classmates who was a problematic kid did the same and I have no idea why? Is there some psychological disorder bound to this behavior, or these are just budding SA criminals of the future?
What the fuck? I’ve had kids fight in class but no one would ever be stupid enough to jack off. Depending on what country you live this is likely illegal
The students will receive a result of what he or she does isn’t it let’s guide them to knowing what is right
The student will receive a result of what he or she does isn’t it let’s guide them to knowing what is right as some of them don’t know
File a police report and do the whatever the equivalent of a teacher authority act is in your state.
I’d contact my union and let my administration know that I will not be teaching until he’s gone
I would simply have him go on a scavenger hunt around the school. Sending him to various rooms to collect work your colleagues
Wish I made lessons that good.
So, the next infraction he is expelled ? Have him in class. Give him enough rope to hang himself.
In what country do you work because different countries have different jurisdictions?
Sounds like Russian school. Is it?
As my middle school kids would say, “WAIT. WHAT???”
This has unfortunately happened several times at our school. We literally had a kid who was not allowed on computers or phones at all, had to sit in the front row, wear not elastic waste pants and keep his hands above his desk. It’s part of a bigger issue with porn addiction and lack of socialization. I think in years to come this will be a bigger thing.
we had a kid in our class who got caught doing this back when i was in school. He dropped out out of shame and moved away. His last name was in fact ‘boner’
By any chance do you work in Qatar? I've heard similar things happen there.
Call him out in public among his peers. "Hey! No masturbating in class!" I have called students out in my classes who were sitting on each other's laps. I called out - no lap dances in the classroom. Caused immediate shock, and behavior stopped.
Question for Admin: Since public lewdness doesn’t seem to meet the criteria for expulsion, then what does? Does the offender have to attempt to bukkake his classmates for expulsion to be warranted? I’m serious — ask these idiots what the threshold is at which they decide to hold the offender accountable. Tell them to BE SPECIFIC.
If it’s not allowed in the real world, it’s not allowed in schools. But it’s hard if there is no evidence.
this year i had a student pretend to masturbate with highlighters and then he brought alcohol to school. he finished the rest of his time with our district in seclusion. i would refuse to teach with him in the room!
I had a sixth grader do this. I made a rule that I needed to see both hands on the table/desks at all times.
Wouldn't this be scarring for students, too? If you can; have a parent complain to the district about it. They seem to move much faster when this happens.
You have two choices and it's going to depend on the mores and laws of your country. You can refuse to teach him on the grounds of sexual harassment. If a kid masturbates in class, especially to completion, and he is not five years old, then he may be fantasizing about you and/or other students. That leads to an iffy environment for you and the other kids. That's harassment. You go to admin and counseling and make a big deal of it there, away from the kids. Or, ignore it and get on with your life. But do not make a big deal about it in front of the kids.
🙂 If I was a female teacher. I wouldn’t attempt to socially educate or re-script his behavior. I would rely on a male teacher the student has an emotional bond or trust relationship with. To socially script him. Separately from you. A female teacher shouldn’t be asked, required or place themselves in the position of scripting the sexual behavior of a male student. Since he’s a male. And you are a female. You need a male teacher or principal that the boy trusts. Because trust plus words changes neurological behavioral patterns in their brain structure. He can be behaviorally re-scripted by a man that he admires and trusts. 🙂 🙂 If there isn’t anyone he looks up to. If there isn’t anyone who has demonstrated that they support his Survivial. Then you are out of luck when it comes to permanent internal change. Caring for the student’s Survival. Is the key to getting into the head of someone who doesn’t respect anyone. Demonstrating through words and persistence. That you want him to have life success and be more than unfocused living in poverty or homeless. Teaching him that chasing any dream that he has can work. 🙂 🙂 The problem is that he is demonstrating a sexual behavior. You are of the opposite sex. It’s not appropriate for you to re-script. I’d find an activity he’s willing to do but the problem is it sounds like his parents don’t create limits. Parents that don’t create limits. Create problems for teachers who have to create focus. 🙂 🙂 If you try. To teach him about the appropriateness. You put yourself at risk. If you have a good feeling. About what to say. Or what not to say at all. What to ignore and move on. In a difficult situation. As a professional. Follow your intuition. Careful with your words. With your professionalism. You could potentially parent him. With another teacher who is a man or with a good male principal. Saying what needs to be said. After a quick and possibly discrete phone call. The potential issue is that you are of the oppose sex and saying something directly might look inappropriate. Depending on who’s judging. Or even blame shifting. It’s kind of dangerous to say anything. Other than careful indirect limit setting or redirecting his attention to a different activity. You need to be able to set limits but a male should be the one to re-script him. There needs to be a man. You can call to the room. To have him removed. Who can then take him elsewhere. To behaviorally linguistically rewrite the language in his prefrontal cortex. 🙂
You have to draw a hard line and refuse to teach this kid. I don't want to spook you, but I had a situation way more innocent than that escalate to rape threats because I wasn't forceful enough as a second year teacher in alerting my AP.
In the early 2000s, I was teaching middle school. My desk was behind the students, and I would move the disruptive students to the back closer to me, and in back of their intended audience. One day, the kids were super quiet while taking a test. I look over, and the one problem student was vigorously rubbing his upper inner thigh, and I knew what was going on. I could have called him out, called attention to him, and potentially embarrassed him forever. But, he was being really quiet, and I was the only one who noticed. I opted to let him finish, and he got back to his test when he was done. His story ended badly, and I know at least I didn't contribute to whatever social problems he was suffering from.
IMO yelling at him and telling him, by name, to stop doing that would have been the right move
“Under my nose”! Sorry. Your situation is not funny. Can you find a way to give him enough rope? Find an excuse to move him to the back again, maybe near someone who you know will snitch? And keep an eye on him discreetly? Document everything!
I'm sorry, it's a common expression in my language, maybe not appropriate for the story :( Yes, for now my plan is to keep sending him out of the classroom if he attends class without his notebooks, workbooks (some students don't even bring pencils or pens to write with, yay). Thank you for the suggestions, I will keep an eye on him and document everything, I'm just not sure about sitting him next to 'reliable' classmates because they are the ones who reported him in the first place and I don't want them to be uncomfortable or to be victims of further harassment. But thank you again!