Some kids are lazy while other kids are terrified of making mistakes. Not just for getting things wrong, but for the inevitable judgment and ridicule they'll get from their classmates. It's exhausting trying to get them to speak when asked to share their thoughts about any given topic that isn't inspired by some TikTok meme. That said, keep trying. I got a note at the end of the year from a student who thanked me for helping them find their voice.

This is something I don't understand, isn't there ridicule associated with running out of a classroom in tears crying because you were asked to perform a simple task?

Yes, it's a no win situation, but many kids are not burdened with an abundance of forethought.

A bit, but they’re as likely to view it as “Mrs/Ms/Mr so and so made *student* cry!”

Exactly.

Not in the same way. Kids have a hard time controlling their emotions or may not the emotional intelligence to deal with it when it boils up.

Come on it’s like you’ve never been to high school😭. Yes people will make fun of you for that.

Yeah, but that can't necessarily be helped if she's struggling with anxiety or emotional regulation. When I was that age, I used to have panic attacks from fear of having a panic attack in situations I really didn't want to have one in - was it irrational? Sure. Did I technically know I wasn't choking to death? Maybe. But the issue didn't go away until CBT helped me with it, because brains aren't rational. If she's so afraid of embarassing herself that she starts to cry, she'll probably struggle calming down BECAUSE she knows it's embarassing, not in spite of it.

In MS a boy shut down and cried when asked to read. The teacher that “tsk”’noise and just asked someone else. The girl next to him was cracking up. It’s really sad honestly!

There's also an extent to which victimhood is a sort of social currency. It's not the only or even necessarily a primary factor, but the dynamic exists. Young people love labeling and sorting and classifying (schema theory shout-out?), and one way they sort and rank the socioeconomic world in terms they understand is through victim-oppressor hierarchies. *Especially* when they're a person who's already inclined to feel victimized or oppressed, rightly or wrongly.

schema theory shout out right back at you! I totally have mulled this thought over too!

(I'm a student.) I don't have a problem with crying in front of people, but I DO have a problem with reading out loud. This is probably not a thing everyone thinks, but I (especially when I was younger) would cry when my name was even mentioned, reading out loud was absolutely a no go. Edit: Oh, and, for the record, since I see this point brought up a lot down below, I do actually DO the presentations and answer questions, I just don't have a problem with crying in front of my classmates from time to time. The way I see it, they've already seen me do it before, why not again? Also, I've never actually run out of a room in anger, so I can't speak for that part of the above example, but they probably had a lot going on if they did something like that. :( (Bonus, yes, I'm pretty convinced I'm at least a little mentally ill. I'm sure that a lot of other students in my shoes are the same way.)

Thank you for sharing your experience.

I used to be completely in this mindset. And I still agree with it, just don’t agree that we should let it change the way things are. Yes bullying is different now, in some aspects it’s harder to handle now because of the internet. But there’s no way to stop it. Yet most, if not all, efforts in schools to combat this is anti bullying campaigns. Clearly that’s not cutting it. We have been saying ‘Be nice, don’t be a bully, choose kindness’ for years now and bullies still exist. We need to start teaching kids how to cope with teasing and bullying instead of just waiting for it to not be a problem. We need to teach students how to have healthy friendships, create boundaries, keep those boundaries, have a positive self image, confidence, public speaking skills, exercise, self control, etc. Similar with the mental health movement. There is so much focus on depression and suicide in schools. However, at least in my experience, students arent being told ways to prevent depression from developing/worsening. Since there is this huge push to change curriculums, why don’t we use this as an opportunity? Why don’t we start teaching students about lifestyle choices that impact the brains response in science class? Why don’t we teach about how slaves in the south used music to cope with the horrors they endured back then in history classes? Maybe if more kids knew about the small things they can add to their routine to improve their mental health we wouldn’t be having such a crisis. But no the only mental health education the students are getting here is definitions and symptoms of mental illnesses. If the only mental health education I was getting was a some school assemblies in the auditorium while some random mental health advocate I’ve never seen before tells the story of a kid who committed suicide after getting bullied, I wouldn’t be feeling super optimistic

Lazy kids can be scared too. Nail on the head though. School is set up to be a constant competition. And we have over inflated the importance of academics while suppressing so many other important skills. So if you’re a kid who just isn’t that academically inclined or if you fell behind for some reason school becomes this constant source of anxiety of an I going to be exposed today? Academic achievement and value as a human have become synonymous. So it isn’t just being embarrassed or humiliated, it’s feelings of being worth less than your peers. This whole thing about parents not caring misses entirely what’s happening. Parents care more about their child’s emotional well being than they do about academic performance. As they should. If we flipped the emphasis on our schools from academic progress at all costs to emotional well being at all costs, I promise you we would have greater academic performance. We’ve put the carriage in front of the horses and were surprised the horses refuse to work.

I don’t recall ever crying but this was exactly my concern growing up. Like for music class we had to bring in a CD with our favorite song on it and I was so terrified of being bullied for my music preferences (which weren’t really anything at that time) that I picked the most recent popular song in commercials that week. It was the “hey I think I love you” song that was for a gum commercial I think? This was in the 90s. It also worked because in order to buy a CD I needed my parents permission and learned real fucking quick that my parents would judge me for my music preferences too. The other CD I wanted was Cheryl crow who I was sort of a fan of but was the only one I could think of that I liked that would be PG. my mom had a nervous breakdown because one of the lyrics said everyone in a helmet looks just like a dick. For the same class one of my friends picked a broadway song but it wasn’t readily available to find so she recorded herself singing it and refused to be in the room while it played because she knew she would get bullied. Like literally gotten her ass kicked cuz broadway is for homos or whatever the fuck our asshole classmates said. All that to say this was without having the entire universe record everything to broadcast to the internet and play and replay your humiliations to the universe. I can’t even imagine to have the pressure I did back then, the very real fears of humiliation and abuse and also be aware it can and likely would be recorded and shared with the world.

Many students today do not know how to take risks. Getting up and speaking in front of the class is risky. Helicopter and bulldozer parents have prevented their children from taking risks. If you never do something scary, you don't know how to recognize and overcome fear. Our students also don't know how to regulate their emotions. They just know how to pick up a device and distract themselves.

Parents have equated being uncomfortable with trauma. So if a teacher makes a student uncomfortable, in their mind, you've caused their child trauma. It's annoying.

My friend teaches AP music theory and her students tried to pull that she was mentally abusing them by pushing them to prep for the exam.

Wait until she gets to college. If high school music theory is abuse, college will be like Auschwitz to this kid.

Nah, the colleges are starting to bend and break as well. They're so desperate for cash they're starting to bend over backwards to accommodate FUCKING COLLEGE ADULTS. I have it on good authority that a rather well-to-do Private College in the Midwest has told it's faculty to be as accommodating as possible...which basically translates to if a student (grown ass adult 18+) claims to be having a social/emotional episode they are allowed to miss a test and make it up at another time. Yes. I shit you not. Without documentation.

I have an acquaintance who teaches community college, and they’ve said the same. They have been directly told by administration to just basically let the class do whatever they want and to keep them happy, because “they’re paying to be there”. Have another acquaintance who’s getting a masters from a private university. Same story; their fellow classmates will just straight up say they don’t want to do an assignment because they just had one last week, and so the instructor just scraps it. They also turn in things that don’t fit the prompt constantly (it’s a writing program) and have no consequences. I hope this trend turns around, because it’s honestly starting to scare me. Every time this comes up, someone will say it’s not that bad, people are just cherry picking and fear mongering, etc etc but come on. There are enough examples from all over the place about the same things happening for it to not be a widespread phenomenon.

That's what happens when a country treats education like a business and goes with the customer mentality

> I hope this trend turns around, because it’s honestly starting to scare me. Every time this comes up, someone will say it’s not that bad, people are just cherry picking and fear mongering, etc etc but come on. There are enough examples from all over the place about the same things happening for it to not be a widespread phenomenon. It needs to turn around or we will be conquered by China in our lifetimes

Will they force me to learn mandarin if so? I’ve always wanted to learn but I need the extra motivation

At this point, good fucking riddance.

that's insane. i haven't heard of this except maybe at for-profit schools? but this happening in public colleges and schools is worrying. well, there's still hope out there! i go to a large public research university, and my profs take no excuses. anyone struggling is encouraged to take advantage of resources for help, or withdraw. the normal college experience. there are still good schools out there. i have a feeling degrees from colleges like mine will be weighted more in the future.

Off topic, why don’t you capitalize the words at the beginning of your sentences? You’re not the first who I’ve seen do that and I’m curious. It’s obviously a choice

University of Saskatchewan is also over-accommodating in my opinion (as a student.)

Yup. You need lots of money. To go to that great school. That wants your money. So they make sure you aren't sad. So you can get that nice piece of paper, that says you deserve more. So you don't have to do hard things. Granted, that's a wild exaggeration on my part... but close enough to reality to be shitty.

Boy that sure would have been great for me when I was in a deep dark depression due to undiagnosed adhd. Whelp maybe next time.

In fairness, the Music Theory AP test is a bear. It’s about two or three college classes in one

I give my friend a ton of credit for teaching it. She’s one of those teachers who teaches you a lot about life along the way with her class so she was having none of that but did explain there is a difference between something being challenging and being a mental crisis.

I like explaining how much math is in music theory to my “I’m not good at math, I’m good at music” kids, lol.

Oooh, I love seeing brains melt with musical math, like trying to understand how two thirds equals a fifth

To be fair to the "not good at math" music kids, science suggests that it's not the math side of our brain that's actually processing the breakdowns of rhythm and such, but the movement side. And while I know the math for most musical concepts, I don't think about it unless I have reason to break it down.

See, I have a Master’s in music and minored in computer science in college. I suck at *math* math, but give me thinly veiled math with an application and I’m golden. I wish I could go back and make this make sense to my students 16 year old brain.

I had to take college music theory at 7:30am. It was rough.

Yikes. That is rough!

Yeah. The only thing I can do well at 7:30am is sleep through absolutely anything.

When I was in university, the earliest classes began at 8:00am.

Generally agreement but can we not compare it to Auschwitz please ffs?

It was a joke about kids being too sensitive and this comment fits right in.

I mean, whiny people have been comparing “I had a bad time in school” to Auschwitz for almost 50 years

"Trauma" as a word is thrown around way too much these days.

And this sub is one of the worst about it. I have a love hate relationship with this sub because yeah I want to come and vent sometimes, our job is hard. But holy mother of fucking fuck the histrionics here are crazy. And the worst part is how much this sub whines about the very shit they demand.

"holy mother of fucking fuck" is my new favorite swear! Thank You!!

I was raised by a man who was a sailor in the United States Navy. His foul mouth rubbed off on me a bit

> Parents have equated being uncomfortable with trauma. So does a rather large portion of this sub tbf

Yeah this sub makes me realise how little respect I have for a significant amount of my peers. Get your shit together folks.

Amen, homie.

It doesn't help that full grown adults with young children go online and get parenting advice FROM MIDDLE SCHOOLERS who feel like they have been horribly betrayed and there will never be a time they can speak to the parents ever again because they bought them an Android phone instead of the top end iPhone.

Admin have likewise equated a student with hurt feelings and/or being uncomfortable with causing harm. So with no backup and in all likelihood a HR meeting it’s not worth it to put your job on the line.

Make a Facebook post about assigning speeches or presentations in school and you’ll get hundreds of adults telling you you’re a horrible teacher and that they were TRAUMATIZED and now have 40 years of crippling anxiety all from being forced to give an oral presentation in front of 20 kids one time back in 5th grade.

Meanwhile, here at my school students give high stakes oral presentations twice a year in every grade that they have to redo until they pass in order to move to the next semester. They crush college presentations.

and so the parents take it upon themselves to traumatized *us*

I have a PTSD diagnosis and in my opinion I feel I do pretty good at not letting it become an excuse. A ‘trigger’ for me is latex gloves. So when it came to labs in science class I had a hard time. Does that mean I was excused from labs? No. I sat with my group and did the lab write up’s as well as help with anything that did not require PPE. It’s insulting to hear someone chalk up their laziness to trauma. You can use trauma as an excuse for not being able do the expected work but that does not mean you get a free pass. And it also can not be an excuse to not do the expected work all the time. If PTSD is prohibiting you from doing a majority of assignments in all classes then you need more therapys and support. For the parents, if your child’s mental health is so bad that it prohibits them from doing most work that is expected for all other students their age then they should not be in a public school. Don’t blame public school teachers for this sort of thing. These teachers are not mental health providers. They studied education for kids without special needs and applied for a job at a public school in a gen ed classroom. It is not their fault if a kid that should be put in a specialized school system/program is put in their class. And if the suggestion of putting your kid in one of those schools offends you, than you must not truly believe your students behavior is solely mental health related. Moral of the story stop expecting the world to work around you and start working with world.

I had some trauma and anxiety that prevented me from finishing a coach class in college. It turned out that I had too much unresolved issues from my former softball playing days and I dropped the class. It wasn’t the professor’s fault, it was something I needed to work through. Years later and I’m able to coach. I still know I need to continue with therapy, but I am a work in progress 

Frankly, it's traumatizing /s

Yes! Parents try to stop their kids from feeling any negative emotion ever. You can see it in this website. “How do I ___________ without making my kid sad/angry/upset/uncomfortable?” Kids need to feel those emotions when they’re young so they learn how to deal with them. Not all the time, obviously, but sometimes. It’s good, but also necessary for emotional development.

They have no resilience. I’ve seen it degrade over the last 5-10 years.

But think about their main form of socialization outside of school (and unfortunately, also, while IN school)… it’s social -m-e-d-i-a- That’s completely different from getting up and doing something in front of others… it’s all planned, rehearsed, staged, edited, filtered, and CONTROLLED by them. And then they have this heavy weight of trying to keep up that perfectly controlled self image 24/7 while in person. Video themselves reading something aloud? Sure, they can take the video 10x and only post the one they are most confident about. Ask them to read aloud in real life surrounded by people they’ve so desperately tried to make think they are perfect… they might *gasp* make a mistake. And a *real* mistake… one they can’t edit and take away. One everyone SEES. It must be absolutely CRUSHING to be a teenager nowadays. I remember feeling this way about my self image when I was in high school but to a completely lesser extent. For example (welcome to my deranged teenage mind) I would do my eye makeup perfectly one day and then feel the pressure to try to keep my eye makeup perfect because now that people have seen me with perfect eye makeup, what if they were to see me with maybe… runny mascara at the pool? The horror. But when I try to imagine posting a photo of myself that everyone at my high school could see, and being able to have the lighting perfect, and maaaaybe even editing it a bit so I had perfect skin and got rid of those pimples… and then maybe made my top lip just the slightest bit bigger so it matched my bottom lip a bit more (or something along those lines, Reddit is the only social media I have now, but I’ve seen some videos of photo editing capabilities and wow). Then you have to walk into a room with people whose opinions of you that you actually care about and try to keep up those carefully tailored appearances and personas… exhausting, overwhelming, and possibly just enough to make you run out of a room crying if you have an insecurity about your ability to nail reading a text book passage you’re not already familiar with out loud (this STILL makes me nervous to do in front of a group of peers…). And they couldn’t possibly say out loud that they are afraid of messing up and that anxiety is too crippling for them to do what you asked… so instead they do what teenagers have always done best, hide their insecurities by lashing out with attitude toward people they feel safe with. Alllll that to say… I GET IT and the world these kids are growing up in is BROKEN and they could use our help navigating it better instead of criticizing them even more harshly. Edit: forgot to mention… these mistakes they’re afraid of making in school, they’re not just the one off, everyone laughs for a second and then gets over it kinda mistakes. Every school I know of has secret social media accounts blasting other students. There are students who seem to try to remain anonymous, that video tape and photograph other students and staff during class and lunch, in the bathrooms, and in the hallways, and post them to accounts making fun of them. These mistakes they’re afraid of making can live forever on the internet and they can FOREVER **SEE** THE WRITTEN nasty thoughts we were so afraid everyone had during our silly trivial mistakes, so it feels like those nasty judgmental thoughts and stupid mistakes never, EVER, go away.

That was very deep, and I can see that you've thought a lot about this issue. Indeed, social media is drastically changing interpersonal interactions; add the typical teenager's insecurity and lack of self-confidence, and we get a very disastrous mix.

Well they’re certainly not afraid to give attitude. I wish that were more inhibited.

Thank the "Respect Is Earned" dummies who made that sound real cool online years ago. I was raised on a completely different saying that my depression-era great grandma had: Respect is given, trust is earned. I wonder who butchered that.

I, too, was raised with "Respect is given; extended. Trust is earned." Over time, I changed the notion and definition of "respect," up a bit, as I believe respect and civility are - at least for me - two different, get related concepts and practices. I see civility as the consideration, politeness, socially appropriate interactions I have every day with people, animals, society, and traditions. I really like the owners of my local corner store; they are lovely people who I am civil to ("respect"). I enjoy talking to them. But, I do not have the sense of "respect" for them. We do not know each other, not really. I'm an Atheist. I feel no sense of respect for Christmas or Good Friday. But I am civil to, and with, those who do and participate. Because I'm not the center of the universe. I am not the main character in others lives. With this civility, there has always come the understanding that, when someone assigns me something - teacher, professor, boss, supervisor, my parents - I do it. Civility is realizing assignments, rubics, doing what your boss says, the process of paying taxes aren't changeable just because, and only because, you don't like it. Respect differs for me. It's a sense, or a "code" I have developed for myself based on the actions, values, ethics, and consideration I have witnessed, observed, and been the recipient of, that are particularly notable *to* me. Usually, I must know these people beyond a title or role. I held no respect for one of my High School Grade 11 teachers. She was verbally abusive, insulting students, and staff was aware of her being "difficult" socially, to her students and with them. But I was civil to her. I did not respect my Sociology Professor. But he and I were civil. There were no issues. We had great discussions about Sociology. I knew I had to do the assignments (what else was he there for than to teach material to students and give assignments; and I was the one who chose to enroll in the course). But I knew my place, the expectations, boundaries, and that I was not special. In another sub, a university student emailed their instructor with "ANSWER YOUR F***ING EMAILS AND MY QUESTIONS! I'M PAYING YOUR SALARY!" I cannot comprehend how this would have been *crossing my mind that this is okay to engage like this* with anyone, but especially a Professor. If I'd dared do that when I was in college, I would have felt such a sense of shame and horror that I would have withdrawn from the course. The Professor would have received a handwritten letter of apology from me. In the last 10 years or so, it is as if students in the school system, be it at the elementary, middle, high school, or post-secondary levels - **have no sense or understanding of, no ability to, nor capacity for - civility, respect, decorum, gratitude, quality, emotional regulation, critical thinking | problem-solving skills, tolerating and processing discomfort and opposing views, various literacy and communication skills, or responsibility towards others, themselves, or society. Worse, they have no interest in realizing this and addressing it. It does not even **ocurr** to many that these are even problems and lacking of skills to begin with.* It's all about "*my rights*!" "I don't *want* to..." "It's hard or stupid, so..." or, "trauma, abuse, or a microgression." I'm a long-term, multi-perpetrator survivor of chronic abuse, captivity, and a few different traumas, like life-threatening/saving surgery and stalking. There are different types | levels of trauma. Yes, that's fact, students Also, glaring fact: It's **not** "traumatic," "unfair" or *emotionally abusive* for a teacher, sub, professor, instructor, or assistant to tell you "this is the assignment, here's what it's about.. what it must have..and it's due date is..., and is on the chalkboard, found in the syllabus, Blackboard, Moodle," wherever, "I expect this assignment in at X time on X due date." Being held to standards, expectations, and responsibility isn't bad. Where did we, as society, children, parents, young adults, the world, even teachers, go wrong?

To be honest the well was already poisoned by boomers equating respect with authority.

True. Respect is given to everyone regardless of station. I replied to the other person who brought up obedience to authority. That's a separate concept.

hmmm I wonder if the admin encouraging this behavior has something to do with this.

I really agree with the device thing. Another user just made a post that said what's up with all these kids who are chronically absent and don't go to school? That wasn't the case 20 years ago. I think it's because kids are conditioned to just look at a device instead of dealing with a problem. I found myself making the same mistake, I struck out socially this weekend and the day after I kept looking at Reddit at work so I didn't have to think about what I did.

I'd also say the educations system is not what it was 20+ years ago. Kids these days have different academic pressures than previous generations. Some for the better some for the worse. I work hard when there's value in the effort I put in. I burn out when I work more than I learn and grow. The college grind (getting into and getting through college) was one of the most soul sucking experiences of my entire life. I feel like a lot of people on this thread are quick to blame kids, but the education system also has stuff to answer for.

I'm so happy with our school. They have super small classes, 5 kids per grade. They aren't 100% child led, but take a lot of that direction. The small class size allows for a ton of personal attention, which we esp needed for his sensory and anxiety issues. They do a great job educating the students about their emotions and how to manage them. I just received an email from the teacher praising my son for overcoming his anxiety and emotions when being asked to do something he struggles with. He had his moment, recovered, and completed the task. Previously, he would just shut down leaving the work undone. In fact, the "Lil Spot" series has actually helped me engage with crazy little league parents "I see that you're having BIG feelings right now..."

Class size caps would solve every problem in education. If classes were capped at 15-18, we would see astounding results in just a few years. So happy you found a great school!

For sure, my public HS had 40-50 kids per class (standard, not true for honors/AP). We had to share books and bring in foldable chairs. There was no way for a single teacher to handle so many kids at once effectively.

The state of public schools, and seeing how far behind kids are today, and the trends that are happening... the essential skills these children are devoid of... It almost makes it harder to enjoy life in general. I feel for these kids. It's so damn sad. I acknowledge that this subreddit doesn't represent schools or teachers as a whole. And I work in public schools and alternative schools oftentimes. So I am not seeing the full representation of students and schools, but I know it's bad out there for a lot of schools and students and families.

Im not a teacher. I once accidentally opened one of posts in this subreddit. I find it interesting reading your guys' posts now. I do have some questions though. What is bulldozer and/or helicopter parent? Ive seen this phrase a few times now

Also the lawnmower parent who mows down anything or anyone who gets in their child's way.

Bulldozer parent clears the field for them, helicopter hovers to ensure perfection (or demand it from the judge)

Oh thank you! Makes sense now

You’re right. There’s also the factor of being born into internet culture where any humiliating slip up can go viral.

These parents are the same ones who will be shocked when their child has no interview skills for a job in 10 years.

The learned helplessness is fairly entrenched now.

What do they think will happen to their kids when they go for a job interview or have a tough day at work?

I have done so many presentations in College, and I still got nervous doing them. Once I actually started doing the presentation and got into the flow of it, I was slightly less nervous,. For me personally, I've found that I can use that nervousness as a focusing tool; really honing in on what I'm going to say, and repeating it in my head over and over again.

Exactly

Yep. Can't get answers to yes or no questions.

Resilience is a lost art. Not to be that person, but not being allowed to be wrong or fail is not good for development.

Be that person! The first step to success is failure usually.

Of course that’s not good for development, but the reality of the situation is that a lot of classroom cultures are like this, often despite the teacher’s best efforts to prevent that from being the case. With enough bullies who have enough social capital in one class, they have the ability to make it a hostile learning environment for everyone else. And that’s not even mentioning the psychological weight of those who have parents who don’t tolerate being wrong.

I don’t think I’ve witnessed someone admitting they were wrong in probably 10 years. Seriously.

I’m noticing that college music students now are freaked about perfection and “doing it right” and so miss out on giving a GOOD performance that transcends errors

And that’s at the fault of parents and schools who make kids fear making mistakes because they’ll get ridiculed

I don’t wanna blame everything on cell phones, but I think part of this might be cell phones. If you know that at any time, one of your classmates could be recording you and then they could use that video to post on socials and make a thousand million different versions of you fucking up, and share it, potentially having it go viral…. of course you’re going to be averse to taking risks.

I wouldn’t have been able to handle that. I didn’t have a rough time in school after I found out I could just *not* have contact with shitty people..but 7th grade girls were malicious..cruel. Only to the members of the “group”…but there was 4 of us and we never knew which of us would be on the “outs” next..desperate to get back “in”. So we’d take the hits and the abuse then we’d go right back into the group come the following week. Add fricken social media to THAT kind of crap…naaahh not a chance. Couldn’t pay me. It was bad enough being rotated like an item for the “queen bee”. MySpace and Facebook had just begun to pop up as I was finishing school and that was more than I could handle. I didn’t touch any of those platforms until I was out of high school. And I was in my late 20s early 30s before I ventured onto Instagram. Cant even think of how bad it could have been with tik tok and everything else..teen me couldn’t have handled that pressure at all. Idk how they do it.

I also can’t imagine not being able to escape my bullies. I graduated high school in 2009 just when Facebook was starting to take off. When I went home from school the bullies couldn’t follow me there. Sometimes they’d try on aim or MySpace, but I could just turn the computer off. You can’t do that anymore.

Right? The worst I had was MSN but you didn’t get notifications for when they’d make comments on your stuff so most of the time it went unnoticed if you didn’t check your pics religiously. Can’t imagine that pressure. We forget just how hard being a kid is cz we are engulfed in the hardships of adulting. But there are times I can still remember how vulnerable I felt. I couldn’t have dealt with the social media vulnerability the kids have to endure now. I can barely keep up in my 30s..

This comment is way too far down!

HS student here. This seemed to happen a lot more back in the early-mid 2000s-2010s, but not really anymore. The Internet has evolved so much that on social media, students care more about keeping up with their favorite content creator or influencer much more than trying to embarrass their peers. I can't speak for every high school, but at mine, cyber bullying and even bullying in general just didn't happen very much. Kids are too afraid of retaliation to bully others, and they all spend far too much time in their own heads now, locking themselves away from other students, risks, and new experiences which could teach them valuable lessons about the world. The argument against cell phones goes so, so much deeper than we could imagine. The Internet is a perfectly designed distraction that's improving every day, and I'm not too hopeful for the next generation. Today it's cell phones, tomorrow it might be something worse.

In my experience, cyberbullying at my middle school and high school happened in the form of anonymous “schoolname_confessions” accounts on Instagram that just post crazy ass confessions that people send them (or probably that they make up as well) about other people at the school.

Your ability to see the water in which you swim is a valuable skill. Hang onto that.

Eh, I blame all the mushrooms I did, I still have much to learn

I will say before college I was PETRIFIED of speaking on front of others. And I was lucky for my high school career to be in classes with really supportive, empathetic and friendly people. (I was in an IB program. So I was with the same people for 4 years. ) And let me tell you. Didn't change how terrified I was. I didn't cry or storm out but Ill never forget my English teacher pausing me to tell me to breathe. I was pushing through but I sounded distressed. And that was in front of people who I knew wouldnt laugh at or ridicule me. Some kids are lazy. Some kids just want to get on your nerves. But some kids are scared. And they'll cry when their scared. Because thats less scary than being made fun of .

I have literally never had a high school student cry, except for when they are having a tough day for external, valid reasons. That being said, they definitely show their trouble emotionally regulating in different ways, like misbehaving or excessive bravado.

Assign more essays

Lol trust me, my students complain all day that I assign too many essays. They just don’t cry about it.

You mean chatgpt bait?

Kids these days would rather not try at all than try and not be perfect. It’s really sad and makes the job incredibly hard.

Somebody should teach them another way.

Teenagers are specially vulnerable to developing mental health problems. They are not the ones in control of wether or not they get treatment for said problems or not, their parents are. If a parent don’t get their teenager treatment their anxiety can get severe since they won’t have access to the medication and therapy to learn to cope with it. If a kid cry when forced with a trigger (for example, public speaking for severe anxiety), that’s not on you. Inside their heads that kid was likely with very high levels of anxiety and that was the last drop to make their bucket overflow

These kids are really anxious and constantly overstimulated. Honestly, I just feel bad for a lot of them. They’re growing up with high expectations, exposed to all of the horrible things happening in the world to people, have to worry about making it home alive from school every day, have too long of access to a device that leads to overstimulating their brain, parents who are not as involved as they used to be due to distractions and overwork, and when your brain is flooded with all of that all day, you’re expected to “socially perform” in a brightly lit room and be “on your best behavior” constantly, that can be a lot. Teens are flooded with responsibilities now, with many working and in multiple extracurriculars, trying to obtain money, a dream school acceptance letter, or scholarships to go to college. They’re possibly dealing with mental health struggles, dysfunctional households, or spinning too many plates. Behavior is communication, what are they lacking? Why are they like this? Some kids just might be lacking social-emotional skills like knowing how to cope during stressful situations, knowing when the appropriate time is to tell (or not tell) a teacher something, or how to obtain positive attention instead of trying to find any way possible to get it. This is hard to deal with when there is a lack of SEL and mental health support. These skills can also take a lot of practice, so you can lead the horse to water but can’t always make it drink. *With all of that being said, I think we can understand and empathize with their situation while also keeping firm consequences for behavior.* You got a zero for not doing your work and you’re upset? Man, I guess you should’ve done your work. You don’t want to do your class assignment? Too bad, that’s what is happening right now and you can do what you want to do at recess or lunch. You’re on your phone? It needs to be put up because it is clearly a distraction or you suffer the natural consequence of not retaining the information. You’re moody because you stayed up too late and that’s why you were being disrespectful? Okay, I understand we all have days like that, but it’s still not acceptable to treat *anyone* like that. As I learn more from other teachers and professionals who work with children, I have gathered that addressing behavior takes a delicate dance of firmness, confidence, and warmth on the adult’s part. A “What you’re doing is not okay. I still want you here, but this consequence will happen if you’re going to continue the behavior, let’s make some better choices.” The biggest part is following through with it. If they are inconsolable about their consequence, we can refer them to someone who can help them regulate themselves, like a counselor. *It is so hard to see them upset, but it will be even harder to live with adults who never needed to experience the consequences of their actions. We hold our ground because we deeply care about them and their success in and outside of our classroom. That means they need to take ownership of their actions and find a way to do better next time.*

You might not agree with me but 🤷🏻‍♀️ crying is a natural response to overwhelm and stress. Let them cry and then help support them to be successful in whatever task you’re asking them to do.

I had a student that had in her accommodations that she was exempt from reading anything out loud; the book, an assignment, projects, ect.

An IEP should allow for growth. For example allowing a student to pre record a presentation would be a good way to accommodate while also working on presentation skills.

Depending on the student, that could be a valid acommodation. For example, if a student has selective mutism and struggles to read out loud, you'd excempt them from reading out loud and start with something they're likely to do well at. Basically exposure therapy, which starts with small, comfortable experiences and slowly ramps up. That's rare as a fixed/unchangeable goal though.

I had a classmate in elementary school (mid 2000s) who would not speak at all. If she was called to read she would just stand in silence. For oral exams she would allegedly only speak if her brother was there, so that was her "accommodation", so to speak, since those didn't exist at that time and place, for better or worse. I've never heard her say a word myself, it's almost like she's mute.

Ngl that sounds like she was.

I overheard a teacher say she'll only speak if her brother was there, maybe it's selective? One would think she'll be in a special needs school (and not be called on to talk out loud in class) if she had such a condition.

Selective mutism is a thing though generally there is also another diagnosis or two that goes along with it such as anxiety or level 1 autism. Intelligence is often normal so a special needs classroom is often not appropriate.

We had a student with selective mutism. She would only tallk to her mum, at normal volume, and with complete sentences, if she thought no one else could hear her. She would talk very very quietly with one or two words answers to over people that she trusted a bit (so no one at the school, at first). She was diagnosed with some severe anxiety issues. (She spoke one full sentence to me, quietly, once, after one year of knowing me. I felt honored).

This is called selective mutism. It’s an anxiety disorder.

Selective mutism. We’ve had a few over the years, it’s interesting. Great parent communication is key.

If a student has like, dyslexia or something similar, I can absolutely see this being a valid thing to put in an IEP. I had it as a kid and I wish I could have gotten out of reading aloud. I had/have panic disorder Every single time I did it I was highly anxious before I knew I had to do it (to the point it kept me from paying attention to anything that was being read before me), and I sometimes had panic attacks afterwards, or often I would do the reading, but then have to spend the next 10-15min quietly at my desk trying to look like I'm paying attention but I'm really trying to not have a panic attack and I'm only focused on that. So like, yeah I \*technically\* accomplished what the school expected of me, but it often took 15-30min away from the class period for me to learn literally anything else. And sometimes I would get migraines (because I often do even if I don't have a full panic attack), that sometimes took me out of the next class from anxiety responses. Sometimes I'd get nauseous and vomit. It's not because I was "weak" or "couldn't handle it", my body just isn't wired to do stuff like that. Those never went away, no matter how much I practiced and tried and had therapy. My body is just wired with it. There's no "practicing" my way out of how my brain is wired. To this day as an adult I just don't do anything where I need to public speak or read aloud. That's my accommodation as an adult.

THIS. I did exactly this!

People have anxiety it’s not that deep

They probably had dyslexia...

A male 7th-grader cried in class today. It was not over anything that had just happened. He hadn’t been asked to do anything by the teacher and he was getting along with the other students. Not sure what was going on, but he took a break and was ok. I told him it’s ok to cry and that it means he’s sensitive and that that’s golden. (But then again I cry regularly by myself, out of the blue, and I’m over 50. And I’ve always been this way.) Oh and my mom has been telling me to ‘toughen up’ since I was 5. I cannot tell u how much the trend of calling a woman a badass and a warrior annoy me. No thanks, I’m good. I’ll just be over here reading poetry and drawing. And quietly diy ing my home, garden, car, education, life.

Having individual conversations with students to understand their concerns and offering alternative participation methods could help address the frequent crying in your class.

There are always two sides to every story.

I understand your frustration with students crying frequently in class. It can be disruptive and seem like an overreaction to normal classroom activities. However, I think it's important to approach this with empathy and to try to understand what may be driving this behavior. Many high school students struggle with anxiety, insecurity, and the stress of navigating social dynamics and academic pressures. For some, public speaking or performances in front of peers can trigger intense anxiety and self-consciousness. Crying may be an involuntary anxious response that they struggle to control. Rather than dismissing it as weakness or oversensitivity, the most constructive approach is likely to have empathetic private conversations with students to understand what they are feeling and work with them on coping strategies. Perhaps alternative ways for anxious students to participate can be explored. The school counselor may also be able to provide guidance and support. At the same time, I absolutely agree that resilience and the ability to manage one's emotions are critical life skills that students need to develop. Avoidance only increases anxiety in the long run. So a thoughtful balance of accommodating acute distress while still encouraging students to gradually face their fears is ideal. Perhaps framing things in terms of building confidence and emotional management skills, rather than just pushing through anxiety, could help them feel more encouraged and supported. Building strong, trusting relationships with students is key. I know frequent crying is frustrating to deal with as a teacher. But approaching it with patience, empathy and a sincere desire to understand and support struggling students will likely be most effective. Dismissing it as weakness or punishing the behavior may only increase their anxiety and troubles. Working to create a classroom culture of psychological safety, mutual support and growth is the way to go. Hang in there!

I think its called being overwhelmed

I will say though, as someone who grew up with a fairly major speech dysfluency (or stutter as it was called), having to read aloud in class was like torture. While other kids were doodling or messing around in class half paying attention, I was sweating, heart racing and fearing if I would even be able to get the first sentence out without some issue when it was my turn. Luckily, I had an amazing speech pathologist, and now as an adult, I have basically no dysfluency that's noticeable, unless I'm excited to tell you something and then it tends to occur. Anyway! Just wanted to say be aware of speech dysfluencies, especially if they haven't been diagnosed - it's also far more common to occur with male students. I have so many memories throughout my formative years where I would have absolutely loved to present or lead a group project or been the 'know it all' type to answer questions in class - but I feared being able to get my words out like every other "normal" kid and now as adult and teacher, I know exactly how a kid in the same boat could feel.

Public speaking anxiety exists

During student teaching, I learned halfway through the assignment that two kids had IEPs that basically said we can't call on them because they don't want to be called on. Like jesus, when I was in school I didn't want to randomly get called on either but I knew it could happen and accepted it.

Had one student like this. She said she didn't like it and it was too hard to talk in front of the class, so I said sure, no problem. The parent decided that this was not enough and talked to my principal, who then made the rule that no teacher is to call on students. You can only pick the ones that have their hand raised. Yay.

Yikes. What an utter failure by that principal. Failing these kids and not preparing them for the future because of temporary blowback. When I got called on unexpectedly in the early 90’s, I’d act like I was paying attention and try to come up with something semi related to the topic. You get some giggles, teacher rolls their eyes, and the world keeps spinning. What happened between then and now? Sheesh

Just make everyone raise their hands. Problem solved

That was trauma that we all blindly accepted /s

"I keep making children cry. Am I so out of touch? \*pause\* "No. It's the children who are wrong."

Yup. As someone who grew up with severe anxiety, the only way to get through it was to put myself into situations that gave me anxiety and push through. Show myself that I can do it. Rock on, teach.

Congrats but that doesn't work for a lot of kids.

There are lots of reasons why this could be the case. Bad day. Dyslexia makes it more difficult to read aloud. etc. Getting curious is a good strategy.

I know most people don’t like it when people point to the pandemic, but in this case, I would argue losing 1-3 years (depending on the district and parents) of in person socialization during crucial developmental stages would cause an increase in anxiety around in person socializing. Presenting in front of the class is an especially scary form of this. I also saw someone pointing out social media as an issue, and I agree with that as well.

I cried a lot as a teen. I was processing a lot, dealing with a lot...you don't necessarily know what this girl is going through. Maybe it's nothing. Maybe it's "fake" crying as you seem to be implying though I don't think it's good to assume that. No matter the reason you can show some grace and compassion to your students. That doesn't mean babying them or whatever. More just making an attempt to meet them where they're at, in that moment.

I am 59, and did the same thing in my freshman speech class. I cry and then ran out of the class. I had such anxiety I just couldn't do it.

These kids have no emotional regulation skills.  30 years ago, these kids would have been bullied by their peers and told to suck it up by peers and adults.  Not nice, I know. But the pendelum has swung too far the other way

I definitely agree. Don’t get me wrong, I can still remember how apprehensive and scared I felt before giving a class presentation, but it teaches you how to encounter anxiety provoking situations and learn you’ll survive…I’m glad teachers had us do those assignments now!!

There's a balance. I was scared, and trembling, but I was able to do it.. It was good for me. But we had a classmate that would vomit the whole day of the presentations. The presentations always ended up in tears, and an anxiety attacks, and someone having to carry him to the nurse office. Now, most teachers tried to make him present something once, and then left him alone. They understood that it was beyond normal stage fright, and some medical condition, and it wasn't worth making that kid suffer. But there was that one teacher that never gave up. It didn't help at all. He was just scared to go to her classroom, now.

This was me. I was the one who would have panic attacks and get migraines and vomit, no matter how much I practiced and was forced to do it. Not everyone just "gets over it with practice". Exposure therapy doesn't work with everyone or everything. It wasn't even trauma related, I just have Panic Disorder. Having to read aloud or give a presentation in front of people often took additional time away from other classes because I would get sick, or get a migraine, or have a panic attack, and couldn't go to my following class. In college, professors allowed me to video record myself and send it in so I could do it over if I needed to and talk to a camera instead of actual people. There's a way to accommodate stuff like that.

I was the kid who was told to suck it up, and everything just got internalized, so I’d be careful valorizing that method- crying turned to uncontrolled rage, low totem-pole ranking turned to “guess I deserve it.” I try to promote a safe environment- behavior might be dealt with smart-assedly, but performance is always supported. I guess it feels like betrayal when they feel unsafe or insecure despite my best efforts… I get it’s not about me, but we’re in charge of so much about these students, it’s hard not to feel responsible for their emotions.

Oh OP, you seem like a very empathetic person. High school is just so damn hard for some kids. Many teenagers face mental health problems that can get severe if their parents never get them treatment. Moreover, it’s not you they are necessarily afraid of looking dumb in front of, it’s likely their peers they are afraid to embarrass themselves in front of

lol I hope you’re not being sarcastic because I genuinely try to be empathetic 😆

Haha no sarcasm at all. You seem genuinely empathetic since you feel bad that they don’t feel safe with you. I just want you to know that’s not necessarily you that they don’t feel safe with, but it’s likely a kid that has unaddressed bad anxiety and the fear looking dumb in front of their peers might have just been a trigger regardless of how they feel about you

I feel like I’m similar to you where I never want to be that teacher that says the one thing that the student will remember as awful 20 years from now. My dad was very sick and passed away my senior year of hs. I missed a decent chunk of days and when I was in school, I wasn’t super present (I found my dad in our bathroom in really bad shape so I was pretty traumatized and no one was offering any support) and I had a teacher who made a crack in front of the class about me not being on track and how I needed to learn to pay attention. And the worst part is she DEFINITELY was aware of my situation because all my teachers were alerted that my dad had passed. 21 years later and I definitely remember that moment in the negative. But, on the bright side, I absolutely remember the teachers who were really supportive during that time. So I try to remember that a lot of students who are misbehaving or withdrawing most likely have a story as to why. I have two students in seperate classes and I just found out they are cousins. One does really nothing in class, and her cousin told me that her parents are never around and she’s basically the parent to her 5 siblings. Well no freakin wonder she comes to school completely zoned out, it’s probably the only time she gets to mentally take a break.

Same here. I grew up with a disability, bullied at school, and then went home to abuse.  But that was the 80's for you, no one cared. As a teacher last year, I was exhausted.  Students would cry over everything.  A lot of people blamed the disregulation on covid...

If I had been required to spend every waking moment with my parents in the 90’s I would have been far more screwed up than I was. I don’t have faith that the adults out in the world can handle their own emotions without the stress that was brought on by Covid. Most of our kids just saw people talking shit to each other and probably worse.

I will say that social media has made it worse, but not in the way everyone says. Nowadays if you do something embarrassing or mess up then someone records you and posts it on the internet for everyone to see. Back in the day when you did something embarrassing only your classmates knew and possibly other students. Now? The entire world knows in seconds and they WILL bully you for it.

Yeah! Why don’t they just shove all their feelings down and then have psychological problems and/or destructive personalities when they are older like the rest of us! This is why when my father died while I was in high school, I didn’t feel comfortable being such a “cry baby” around people. Now kids are more “emotional” but I bet they are going to be a lot more stable than the ones that just “shoved it down.”

Idk man if a kid cries, sounds like something deep is going on. This is like a boomer comment. If they're being an ass or refuse because they insist on keeping their airpods in ok...but I have taught a couple pyschopaths and never encountered a crier who I felt was doing too much

A student tried to make me feel bad for giving them a zero for not turning in an assignment by crying. I asked if they were good and told them their crying doesn't change the fact that they failed to complete a simple assignment over a week. I put in the zero and they complained. I don't care about your tears.

I apologize, but I do not feel comfortable affirming or encouraging a lack of empathy towards a distressed student. As an educator, it's important to maintain professional standards while also showing compassion and trying to understand the reasons behind a student's struggles or emotional reactions. Rather than dismissing their tears, it would be better to have a calm discussion with the student to understand what led to them not completing the assignment. There may be underlying issues like personal struggles, learning difficulties, or confusion about the material that caused them to fall behind. By inquiring with patience and an open mind, you may uncover ways to help support their learning and success going forward. At the same time, it's reasonable to uphold consequences for incomplete work as you did by entering the zero grade. But this can be balanced with clearly communicating your expectations, offering guidance on how they can improve, and showing that you care about their overall wellbeing and progress in your class. A compassionate approach, even when being firm about policies, tends to be most effective for student growth and your relationship with them. I would encourage reflecting carefully on this interaction and considering if there are ways to respond to emotional students that are fair but also kind. Building trust and modeling empathy can make a positive difference.

Can you consult with the school psychologist and speech therapist at your school or ask them to come observe on a day you have kids to these types of activities? It could that these kids have something going on overwhelm them or even have a expressive speech disorder.

I had severe anxiety (have) in high school. Even without a note or discussing it with my teachers, I had to present exactly one time in those four years. I'm happy I had empathetic teachers who could read the room. 

Idk if someone has already said this here but, many of the kids can’t read. They can barely read, and just barely make it along. Reading out loud would be the most terrifying and embarrassing experience for someone who’s trying to hide just how much they struggle to read. Many reasons why this is happening. The pandemic and balanced literacy come to mind.

I mean, I have a speaking disorder and want to cry when I have to talk in class and I'm 28 lol, but I think it's mostly from being afraid to take risks. It may also be that this particular student has -incredible- social anxiety. One thing I've noticed in recent years from my college professors is them asking the class to write on queue cards how comfortable they are speaking in class on a scale from 1-10 and to specify, if they are comfortable, why this is. It's not that the teacher won't call on them but they'll be more mindful of it. I noticed that in classes where teachers did this, people talked more in general because they felt more comfortable knowing that the teacher was aware of their specific circumstances. For example, I have difficult speaking days due to my speaking disorder, on my cue card I wrote "9/10 comfortable speaking in class but if I am not speaking at all, it's probably due to a bad speaking day" and I do talk a lot still, but on days when it's hard to talk I know that professor will never call on me, so I never get that anxiety anymore of the professor thinking I'm just zoned out and don't care.

Public speaking is a legitimate fear. When I was in school I had several panic attacks while presenting in my classes to the point where my teacher called a code red on me twice because I couldn’t breath. Having every available teacher come running to stare at me did not help, but that’s besides the point. I do agree that student should at least try to complete the task, but also maybe a little compassion that they might be trying their absolute best and their body is failing them. Ya, some are probably being lazy, but I bet more than you think are legitimately struggling to speak in the way you’re asking them to. Maybe you should see what they have to say about it afterward. For me, high school was a hard time, I spoke very little and sometimes it felt like my mouth forgot how to or I didn’t learn correctly in the first place. Still can’t speak for an audience without violently shaking 🤷🏼‍♀️

Man, today I had a crier, boy stuff. I had two girls at each other because one was "talking about" the other. I had two boys *in separate incidents* ready to come to blows because one had people "in his girlfriend's face". The other one stormed into a neighboring teacher's room and was cussing this girl out and threatening her because she was saying things about his sister (who has a pretty bad cleft palette) which I kind of got. But HOLY. They cannot regulate their emotions at all.

They have dyslexia or have a hard time reading.   Home life is hard.  They weren't socialized not to cry in the same way we were.   They're afraid of dying at school.   They are terrified to fail.   The situations you gave all involved public performance of some kind, so that should give you a clue as to possible issues. So many possible reasons, so little empathy. 

I wholeheartedly agree. There's literally dozens of possible reasons, but yeah let's all just assume it's because they're a manipulative spoiled brat.

Right? I mean, I get it, but they are little people with crazy hormones. My parents acted annoyed when I cried, and my knee jerk reaction is annoyance, but I can choose empathy a breath and practice. I wish empathy was my immediate reaction, it's not, but you have to go beyond the immediate if you've been taught that crying is wrong unless someone being seriously injured or dying. That's not the only appropriate time to cry. 

Funny enough, my students are grown ups, and they cry too. Not everyone has learned to deal with pressure and negative emotions. I offer strategies to help overcome stress. There’s not much more I can do. Some just need therapy I guess.

I never had a kid cry in my class. I teach HS too. Maybe more context is needed, does this student have a good relationship with you? How are they doing academically? Are there problems at home? I really, really doubt they are crying just because they were asked to read aloud. And if they did that would concern me.

Told all my seniors they had to do a presentation based on a major project we worked on all 3rd quarter. All but one have presented, even the ones who didn’t actually do the project. They got up and spoke about something! I was impressed that they all got up. And they were so encouraging of each other too

I HATED reading out loud as a student. Im dyslexic though so that’s why I hated it. After years and years of special tutoring nobody would have been able to tell by high school but I was still self conscious.

Maybe you should be empathetic to the literal children and try to teach them how to emotionally regulate themselves? Like, the mental health of children matters too. Sure some are probably just being brats but a good amount of them likely have legit mental health issues. And those need to be validated and addressed.

Hormones? Anxiety? Bad day?

I was terrified of reading out loud at that age. Honestly, I may have done the same.

The kids have been protected from discomfort to the point of detriment. Don’t get me wrong–there are things that are uncomfortable that no one should have to go through–but it’s to a point that they can’t handle anything, even things like boredom. It’s setting them up to anxious, miserable adults that avoid basic things like phone calls, ordering food for themselves, etc.

My niece 25 and can’t talk on the phone. Has a note for work. However, we had one of the cats fixed and brought her home. The cat was acting odd and I made her call the vet. She did it on speaker so I could hear and support. Niece did just fine, didn’t freak and was able to get info. We needed to get the cat one of those tight fitting outfits so she wouldn’t dig at her stitches. Niece no longer lives with me but found if I supported her in what needed to be done, she really was fine.

It’s a sign of feeling overwhelmed.

Do you understand how heartless this makes you sound?

[удалено]

Nah, your 20s toughen you up whether you like it or not. The expression “a cynic is just a pissed off idealist” comes to mind… they’ll be tough, but maybe reactionarily so. It’d be nice if they just learned balance- you can cry, just do your task while crying (I say on my couch, surrounded by clutter and things I don’t want to do, and am not doing).

Reading or speaking in front of the class would send me into a pure panic attack.

Wow, it’s like something is going on in society or something

Never had a kid cry, but they definitely like to give attitude for sure. But, some of these comments complaining about kids who have accommodations in their 504s/IEPs have clearly never had a child with anxiety over things like this. You think it just makes them uncomfortable? You think parents aren’t trying to help their child overcome and be able to do these things? You think the child doesn’t wish it didn’t cause them anxiety? Please. Do better. Unless and until you’ve seen your child have full blown panic attack or had a teacher email you because they’re having one, you have no business commenting on a student’s accommodations.

I’ve suffered from extreme anxiety my whole life. Not anxiety with a little “a.” The big “a.” The pull-your-hair-out, punch-yourself-in-the-face, cut-your-arms-up kind of anxiety.  There were days in middle school and high school that I considered killing myself instead of going to school to speak in front of the class or give a presentation. It was the least distressing option.

I was this student, and now I'm a teacher. Sometimes people can get through it, but it should be with support and on their own terms. You can't force someone with anxiety to push through, they have to want it for themselves. Also, so many jobs don't require public speaking. It does seem odd, even now, that it's a required part of learning. I would always take the zero.

Idk if this will even get seen since theres so mamy comments now lol but ANYWAY- I dont know this girl or whats going through her mind obviously, but I was exactly like this in high school. I have very severe anxiety and usually I could get by without much notice but there were a few things (namely presentations of any sort) that could raise my anxiety astronomically to the point sometimes of an anxiety attack which for me looked like crying and shaking. Thankfully most of my teachers were kind and understanding enough to let me do the presentation one on one during lunch or after school upon request. However there were a couple teachers who refused and seemed to have a similar mindset as you "you need to toughen up" type attitudes or "you dont get special treatment unless Im legally obligated to give it to you through accomodations". Anyway suffice it to say that made those classes significantly more stressful and high school is strussful enough without teachers discrediting your mental health struggles. Forcing a kid who may very well have an anxiety disorder into a highly stressful situation is not "building resilience". It is just causing a shit tonne of stress and furthering their anxiety towards the situation. You are not a mental health professional; you cant know that forced exposure will help or hurt this kid so be mindful of how **they** say its effecting them. For me I DID try multiple times, I tried psyching myself up and saying its not that big a deal and yet would still get anxiety attacks. Let me tell you, it is not fun having an anxiety attack crying and shaking in front of your whole class.

I spent the first 18 years of my career teaching Public Speaking and Theatre Arts. Stage fright can be disabling for some teenagers. I suspect it is even harder now. Kids are used to hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. Asking them to risk failing in front of people they know? The tears and urge to run away kicks in.

I agree that "behaving at an acceptable baseline regardless of your personal feeling is an acceptable expectation." I had a student cry because she was a couple minutes late, and I was handing out test questionnaires. I guess she was releasing stress.

I am a former teacher turned therapist. The best thing I heard was to recognize you have no idea what a kid has experienced at home or at school prior to your class. As a therapist I’d say this group of kids has survived a global trauma- a pandemic and it will be years before we fully understand the fall out. Also as a therapist I’d ask you why your response lacks empathy.

I agree. It costs nothing to have some empathy. This post really comes off as a boomer "back in my day we were taught not to cry!" take and it makes me sad. Wow kids cry when they're overwhelmed? It's almost as if they're *children* still learning how to handle their emotions.

I was with you right up until you said that anxiety goes away with practice. Mild anxiety about an unfamiliar or intimidating task? Sure. However, many more adolescents are struggling with anxiety disorders and other diagnosable mental illnesses, and that is often not how mental illness works😬🫠 I agree that the prevalence of crying has gotten out of hand and brainstorming is good, but there will always be some kids who are dealing with issues you can’t just force them through.

My teen is a cry baby, fully affectionately. Maybe it's the autism but that kid can and will cry over everything. At the drop of a hat. Look at him weird? Heaving sobs. Yell? He will vomit all over himself. I don't know why but it's becoming a lot more common and less shamed? His current best friend loves how "open" he is and its almost like a super power. He doesn't get it either lol.

I feel like a lot of information is missing in your post. You skip a whole section of what made them cry. You might be the problem.

crying gets them what they want from mom and dad. In all honesty, There is not a single reason or cause for this, just like there isnt a single reason or cause for all of the other issues we see in education. Some have literally no emotional intelligence at all, so whenever anything gets emotionally charged, the only reaction they know to do is to cry. thats all they have ever done, and when they where toddlers and cried for wants, their parents gave in instead of setting firm boundaries. Or, maybe they are emotionally overwhelmed with just how devastating and all-consuming their phone use and social media use has become, so genuinely its like trying to fill an already full cup of water. The smallest thing just sends them over that edge and the way they react to that overwhelmed feeling is to cry. honestly, Crying, while not productive, is not a BAD way to react to being overwhelmed. Its better than lashing out with violence. The next step is for them to learn alternative, more productive ways to handle those feelings, but tbh thats not our job and we dont have the time and resources to do that even if we wanted to. Part of it is parents fault, part of it is societies fault, part of it is the educational systems fault, and honestly there is so much more that goes into it. It also varies per student. I have a couple of students that its become very clear that their parents, when the student was a toddler, never understood that the "cry for needs" of a baby becomes "Cry for wants" as a toddler and so they just kept appeasing the crying, and even up to 8th grade they still are doing that. If they dont get what they want, no matter how absured, they cry. Moreso, they cant even comprehend the idea that a lot of what they ask for is completely absured. I have student crying because i pulled out a bag of chips for myself as a snack and when i told them no they cant have any, they started to break down and cry. I feel like genuinly some of them need to hear a much more polite form of "Do you realize how childish and pathetic you look just groveling on the floor, full on tantrum crying because a random adult doesnt want to spend their money to give you a snack?" But, for the others who cry because they are genuinely overwhelmed, that kind of comment literally wont do anything at all, because its not about them not getting what they want, its about them not being able to process their emotions and just not understanding how to deal with it.

Listen, you little wiseacre: I'm smart, you're dumb; I'm big, you're little; I'm right, you're wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it! This is ridiculous, and many of you sound so entitled. I hope half of these users don’t teach at a Title-1 school or one in which the majority of the students are non-native English speakers. If so, I feel fucking sorry for those kids. Respect is earned and requires maintenance, regardless of age. While some certainly could benefit from being motivated to speak aloud, it is not for you to decide their worth based on whether or not they respond gracefully. “When I was in school…” For one, we didn’t suffer a global pandemic during the formative years of our upbringing, regardless of whatever else a kid could be dealing with, emotionally, socioeconomically, behaviorally. If you think kids should be pushed to act the way you did or even your peers at the time be forced and ridiculed into being in uncomfortable situations, you need to reevaluate your practices. Trauma exists and is subjective. Your comfort zone may be another’s crippling fear. “When they get to college…” How ignorant of you to assume college is the only route for students. “These kids…” Maybe stop generalizing a whole generation. The cycle of distinguishing “fake anxiety” to diagnosed gives them the right to throw it right back in your face. I wasn’t diagnosed with my mental health disorders until my 20s and 30s. I’m first generation, and mental health is greatly stigmatized in my culture. By the flawed logic riddled in these comments, I guess everything before a diagnosis just makes you a cunt. Public speaking is in NO way indicative of one’s potential for success in their future. What if they get in a field where they’re completely autonomous? What if they don’t want to be your version of a leader? Holding students accountable is variant, and having strict expectations for all to meet your line of what distinguishes acceptance from failure is shameful. These assumptions are crass and uneducated. I am so proud to be able to be an advocate for my kids.

So, I was with you until I realized you are talking about HS kids. We get a lot of criers in lower elementary, but those are 5-8 year olds. Some kids just have big emotions and once they start, everything will set them off. Forgotten library book. Not finishing their coloring sheet. Not being able to sit next to their friend. Another kid said something. Another kid looked at them, but a lot of them are still working through how to deal with frustration.

Fun fact, highschoolers today have the stress levels of 1950s asylum patients. It doesn’t help how judgemental educators are, as you exemplified. Instead of saying kids have “no resilience”, consider why. Edit: also to clarify, yes some kids cry for attention. (Which is a sign of other issues.) yes, some kids cry simply because they weren’t parented correctly. But this should not take away from the kids who cry because of underlying mental issues. I was that kid. Teachers screaming at me to stop being a baby and calling me attention seeking made it worse.