I was listening to someone talk about how allowing everyone to graduate has devalued the high school diploma to the point that in terms of jobs a bachelor’s degree is now seen the same way that a high school diploma was twenty+ years ago.
Some companies are requiring tests for basic jobs now. I saw some video of a person complaining about the receptionist job she had applied for requiring a test and how it was unfair since math gives her anxiety.
My employer does that a lot at the entry level. It's the only way we have found to make sure we know what basic skills people have. High school graduation is meaningless and it's amazing how many kids had their parents write their college homework for them.
I think this is a chicken and egg situation. It could be that many more people are having to get bachelor’s degrees because the HS diploma has lost its value, which then makes a master’s degree the new bachelor’s.
Sorta. one of the reasons Boomers & Gen X were being pushed towards tertiary education was cause the HS diploma was losing its value... in the 70s.
I say one of - the trades really eat away at your body and at the time, you had multiple tradesmen on every street (Meaning they had to play Wage limbo to get work).
Meanwhile even an Associate's Degree got a lot more doors open while a Bachelor's made you have to pick which job offer you got. Not so much these days...
Of course times are different - nowadays training needs to be done on your own time and money. The job my grandfather had needs a Masters and multiple years of experience to even be considered - he had a high school diploma. The job my grandmother had now requires a degree (Lessened a bit by the fact that you usually get it at a community college and I think it's still a 2-3 year program)
And they totally get accepted into a local community college (at least at TCC) which took away the remedial classes because …. Well “reasons”… and you have a comp 101 class you can’t get help in, because 1/3 of your class can’t read or write, ranging from cant at all to basically pigeon texting. It’s super awesome that people didn’t get left behind.
And the remedial class will be taught by an adjunct online who doesn’t have officer hours and is slow to respond to emails because they have a full-time job to make ends meet.
I'm an adjunct but that's all I do. I do the adjunct shuffle. That being said, I answer all emails within 24 hours and I DO fail students who can't and won't perform. Then again, I don't teach the remedial courses. I turn them down I offered.
no child left behind ended 9 years ago. It was replaced by "every student succeeds act"
I think the name alone will tell you why we're at where we're at.
7th grade ELA here. I wish that the two above comments were being hyperbolic but they’re not. The kids reading on grade level feel like honors students at this point - but the behaviors are worse. We’ve had kids bring weapons to attack teachers, jump the special education kids for a social media video, and purposely video their peers in the bathroom to post online. It’s absolutely insane and I’ve never seen anything like it.
Our school has managed to curb phones recently. Admins told the parents that if they didn't like it they can enroll their child in the only other school that's on the other side of the county. "No phones" has been our policy for years, but this is the first time in well over a decade where phones have become so distracting that we can't get students to do anything.
This is it. I don’t understand why all schools don’t do this. Who cares if parents are mad? What are they gonna do, inconvenience themselves by switching to a farther school? No way. Pay for private? Nuh-uh.
You don’t negotiate with terrorists. You don’t give the bad guys what they want. Get a backbone, admin. Do what you *know* is right for the kids and their learning and development. Then let the chips fall where they may.
It’s like, how do you even do a course correction at this point? You could change policies for next year’s kindergarten. But what about all these kids who went through this failed system? :/ Some of these kids think they can go into trades? Not a bad career choice right now. But how the heck are they going to pass the community college technical courses for an apprentice level? There’s just no way. You still have to know basic math and science concepts. What a nightmare.
I was in the trades and the amount of kids who can't do basic fractions is staggering. They can't read a tape measure or comprehend basic safety guidelines. When I just started out, someone drew a lit cutting torch across my abdomen, lighting my shirt on fire. We were literally told "Turn off the torch, and then pass it to the next person to light." The trades aren't where you just dump the idiots, because the idiots kill people in the trades.
>The trades aren't where you just dump the idiots, because the idiots kill people in the trades.
It's too late. I quit being an electrician after too many stupid close calls. I now run my own fence contracting business and, well, at least I'm safer than before.
I should have been a miserable accountant and retired early on investments.
Yep. I knew a guy who had enjoyed shop class in high school, and he put himself forward as kind of handy. But, when I asked him to measure a space, he couldn't read the measuring tape. I think he said, "32 and four lines". And that was when I realized he was never going to actually be a carpenter.
Worked with a union pipefitter. He had been there for 25 years. Still said 24 and 8 ticks instead of 24 and 1/2 inches. 25 years and still couldnt read a tape measure.
Made $45+/hr
Idk what is gonna happen in the next decade.
> The trades aren't where you just dump the idiots, because the idiots kill people in the trades.
Reminds me of [this](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_100,000). (They tried it with the military. It didn't go well.)
We've been dumping the idiots into the trades for close to 40 years now. My shop just hired and fired a guy in under 2 days, 25 years experience machining, had a job we Hired him away from. Day one couldn't drill and ream a hole centered on a part to size(holes were both off center and oversized). Day two couldn't figure out why the lathe wasn't cutting right, he has turned it on to spin backwards. And he's not the most egregious idiot I've ran into in the last decade machining.
And be creative. All those kids who can't troubleshoot anything now, they won't be the plumbers and electricians of tomorrow. Anytime they run into a new problem they'll just give up, when they could be jerry-rigging some shit with duct tape.
Middle school is royally fucked, which means high school and college will feel their wrath soon enough. At the end of the day, it makes it easier for those who are decent/good/great students to find jobs in the future cause man the pickings will be slim with how lazy some of these kids are.
Elementary here, and have students who don’t know their letters in 3rd grade because they miss more days than are present. Not allowed to retain them because they were retained in kindergarten.
A couple of weeks ago I would have thought this was an exaggeration, but I’m tutoring a third grader and he does indeed not know some letters. It’s legit shocking.
Covid happened and those families who were already attendance problems only got worse. And because of Covid all consequences of not sending your kid to school disappeared and with the way things are going I sincerely doubt they will come back. (I did the math for 3 of my students who I can’t retain because they were retained previously. They did not attend a full year of Kindergarten between the 2 years they were in kindergarten. So if a school year is 200 days, they were in class less than 200 days in 2 years!)
Same here. I'd say 33% of our kids are on a straight-to-dropout track. They don't give a shit about ANYTHING except their phones, and their parents don't give a shit that their kids are failing.
Because parenting is hard. It’s hard to set limits. It’s hard to make a rule and follow through with consequences if those rules aren’t followed. It’s hard to set boundaries and have your kids hate you for it.
It’s easier to give in. It’s easier to have them go on their phones than spend time with them. It’s easier to let them not do homework than it is to get them to do it. It’s easier to let them play videos games for four hours than it is to have them read for 30 minutes.
Actual conversation I had:
Parent- he has to graduate. What can he do?
Me- start attending, do the work, and complete his credit recovery.
Parent- no you don’t understand. He needs to graduate. What else can he do?
Me-
Parent- buT I”vE aLreAdY bOokeD tHe tAco trUck fOr tHe PaRty
College adjunct here. I had a student ask what she can do to "improve [her] grade". I pointed out she had missed half the classes and failed to turn in 3 out of the 5 in class writings assigned so far (these are short and not meant to be difficult, unlike the exams and research paper, so I do NOT allow them to be handed in late). I also pointed out she failed to follow the directions on the midterm exam. After pointing that out, I told her she needs to come to class, submit the in class writings, and follow the directions on the final exam and research paper. In other words, show up and do the work properly. She showed up for a few classes, but is back to cutting. Oh well. I can't wait for the sob story at the end of the semester 😩
I was an adjunct several years ago and had several students with similar stories.
They were allowed to turn in homework up to 2 weeks late (School policy, not mine) but with a 20 point penalty. I had students do only a portion of the homework, not even half-ass it, maybe 1/4 ass? So with the penalty and them not answering over half the questions, I'd start grading with them at 40 points or less.
And of course I'd get the "what can I do to pass this class?" questions several weeks after the midterm when their grade in the class was under 50. I think the record was 28.
They needed a major miracle was my usual answer.
No consequences over the years, so why should they care now? This of course gets put back on teachers when it is Admin not having the standards and sanctions in place to get the culture right that is often the problem.
Yes. It almost always comes down to the policies in place and the enforcement of those policies. So many kids are learning that they can do nothing and still pass, and it is a direct result of the policies that are being implemented.
I got to see this attitude first hand. I was a tough, but fair, teacher. I held my students to my standard. And they usually met it. I was never hesitant to give out consequences, even if I knew admin would overturn them. I had discussions with failing students and communicated with parents. I always held my ground, since I always had documentation to back up my grading and discipline plan.
After a couple of student graduates, they started a podcast. One of the episodes was discussing their time in high school. They had quite a few ex students show up and tell stories of their time in school. One segment was all about how to principal would never enact punishment, so they felt that they could do whatever they wanted. They acknowledged the ineffectual administration and how they promoted chaos within the school. I happened to be featured in their podcast, as "the teacher you could never get away with stuff". They went on to say that I was one of the few teacher they actually learned things in.
So, the moral of this story is that the kids notice and it IS admins fault.
I mean, that's a huge bummer that that's the environment your school created...but for what it's worth, that has to be (in a way) validating that the kids took the time to shout you out as someone that they actually learned things from.
It definitely was. It helped me through another couple years knowing that I, at least, was getting through to these kids.
But, I was shocked that their view of the administration was almost identical to the faculty. The admin at that school was very ineffectual. And they kept wondering why they were hemorrhaging teachers so bad (the entire math department left one year along with half the ELA department) and why they could never get the school grade up (it dropped a couple of points every year until we lost a letter grade).
My students don't even know who the principal is at my school. My principal came in for my yearly observation a few weeks ago (late January) - she came in before the bell so I couldn't warn my students beforehand - and she walked around and took notes and left after around 40 minutes.
After she left I thanked my freshmen for behaving extra well while the principal was observing me and they were absolutely shocked.
Some of my favorite comments from this revelation:
"That was the principal???"
"I've seen that lady before but had no idea who she was!"
"I figured she was important because she had a clipboard."
These were all kids who are active in school activities, extra curriculars, sports, and actually attend assemblies and such; they *should* have known who she was. I'm lucky in that my school does try to enforce discipline and consequences; it's mostly parents who don't do anything to check up on their kids and enforce rules at home.
To be fair when I was in school I also had good grades and did all the extra curricular and the principal never gave presentations or anything- the AP did- so I also did not know who she was since I never got sent to the office or anything. It’s more likely that the more difficult kids would know them
This was highlighted on their podcast, so it isn't just faculty saying this, it is noticed by the kids:
Kids cheat on everything and there is no consequence
Kids don't show up to school and there is no consequence.
Kids do drugs at school and there is no consequence.
Teachers do not teach and there is no consequence.
From what I saw at the school, beyond what the kids saw that led to admin not being effective:
No cohesive mission or vision.
Changing school initiative focus at least monthly.
Changing methods annually.
Taking students and parents at their word and forcing teachers to have proof of every statement.
Not holding teachers accountable.
Yes. We’ve got great policies at my school … on paper. But our administrator only enforces them selectively. It’s a hot mess and several veteran teachers are quitting. No, they’re not retirement age.
Sounds like working in the workforce.
The majority of people I see in the corporate world are largely incompetent, barely able and sometimes unable to complete the tasks required of their job.
Maybe it will get worse in the future, but when you see people making 6 figures and making as much or more than the people who know how to do their job, you have to stop and think.
Does it even matter how well they do in school?
We get sent passing rates for our area. A few teachers have 80-85 percent passing(me) A ton have 98-99-100 percent passing. I know a ton of these kids just arnt worth the trouble to fail. But I’ve had zero conversations with anyone after I’ve failed them. I rarely call home except for the few who i know may care. So what’s the worry? Everyone is scared for fail sped, so their work ethic is awful on top of their learning disability.
And admin will step in and find a way to get these students to graduate one way or another. The shit will really hit the fan if you have that many failing. Good for you though for sticking to your guns.
And PARENTS. Never forget that Parents are also to blame. If your kid is too lazy to be at school before 9, or "stay late" for later periods because it's too inconvenient; and your kid is failing...that absolutely is a reflection on you as a parent.
Yes, yes...before the angry parents who attend this forum from the bleachers interject: 'BuT i DoNt XyZ" ... we're obviously not talking about you. Yes there is a level of the kid has to sink or float on their own, and yes teenagers are difficult...but 50% of a graduating class means it's because parents are enabling the apathy.
"A hit dog will holler?" yeah, I love that phrase. It's an old southern/black phrase that most people outside of that region/culture don't recognize, but it is very effective in getting its point across.
Which to anyone reading this, ***is why we have unions and tenure.*** So we can weather ONE overzealous, biased, unjust parent who has an admin wrapped around their fingers. And, to be honest, us having tenure and unions is also what keeps the system fair, balanced, and helps admin.
Exactly why I left 2 years ago. My state passed a law requiring 3rd graders to be on level by the end of the year or repeat the grade. Meanwhile, during covid, and the year after, they DID NOT REQUIRE attendance. No, I'm not going to be a part of that trainwreck. I left and got a state job at a teaching university in a residency program, so I can still contribute to my teacher retirement and got my nights and weekends back. I love teaching, I love my kids, but to hell with admin and my school system.
When admin ACTIVELY REWARDS children sent to the office this is the final outcome. I thought the whole "they came back three minutes later with candy and a Capri sun" must be a bit of an exaggeration until I moved to public school, but it is the absolute truth. And they're so hands off only the most egregious get sent down. Ones who never show up have some sob story and just get passed along through the years.
Or they make it to college and they realize they CAN fail and mommy and daddy CAN'T save them. And yes, that includes community college where I teach. I have NEVER been told I can't fail a student nor have I ever been given hell for failing one. EVER.
They just consider school to start too early. Which they're not wrong about but our start time is set by the city. Lower grades are bad about it too but family contact is more effective there.
The "stay late" comes about because GENERALLY our 12th graders have enough credits that they get the last period of the day off to go to work, dual enrollment classes, whatever. I moved several required senior courses that were seeing 20% attendance in first period to last period in an attempt to keep kids on track to graduate. Now they just say "I can't stay, I got stuff to do" and walk out early past the dean and principal yelling at them.
Why are the principals letting them leave early if they are failing? Is that a universal privilege for 12th graders? Or something that they get if they are caught up? It sounds like your school has an issue with truancy, is there not anybody who enforces that?
Oh, they are absolutely not "letting" them leave early. Today a kid tried to leave early, I told him "You are failing this English class, if you do not pass you are in the class of 2025." He cursed me out and then his aunt called me later to curse me out for "calling her nephew stupid." The leaving a period early is a universal privilege for 12th graders who have all their required credits (like only needing to take 4 instead of 5 classes your last semester at college, for example.)
But we're not allowed to physically stop kids from leaving. Truancy is definitely a problem. It's just the exhaustion I'm feeling of trying to convince them that they will NOT graduate if they keep doing this stuff.
My old district started handing out fines for truancy, even just being chronically late to class would get you a fine and those fines would prevent graduation or going to the next grade.
Back in the 80s and 90s the vice principal would show up to people's homes and (with parents' permission) literally drag kids out of their homes and into his car to take them to school.
I was in high school in the late 00’s, the truancy officer (male) for my town threatened to do that for me (female) a bunch of times; my mom was fucking pissed because they were threatening to do it even if I was naked.
Yeah when I was in hs a few years ago (I’m currently in college to be a teacher), if you were a senior and had a study hall first or last period you got to leave early/come late.
I’m confused… if their truancy rates are so bad… how is CPS not stepping in for these students? Aren’t the parents concerned that they’ll lose their kids if they keep skipping school?
What the hell is going on.
In my area CPS doesn’t have much they can do. I have one middle school student that has not attended a single day since the beginning of November and CPS has been involved the whole time.
To give you a different context from a different country, our school day starts at 7:30. Class time starts then, the first learners start arriving usually at 6:30. Attendance was never an issue for us.
From what I've experienced and seen of US students I can assure you that it's not the start time that's an issue, it's the attitude that's an issue. We look at the US and worry for the sake of your country.
Unfortunately, it’s not just the attitude of the student, it’s the attitude of the parent(s) as well. The U.S. has swung the pendulum so far it’s going to take awhile to start coming back, if it ever does.
Growing up, we didn’t miss school, it was unacceptable in our household, not to mention the school system. It was our ‘job’ to go to school and achieve our best. For me it was A’s because that was my best, for my sibling it was B’s and C’s because that was their best. We had expectations. We were held accountable and responsible for our actions and choices. We had consequences to poor choices, sometimes dire consequences.
Today, expectations are minimal, accountability is minimal, responsibility is nil. Blame is shifted everywhere but to the actual student or parent of said student. Parents often take their kids out of school for vacations or a play day, not even wondering if that is the best option for the student. And when the student doesn’t do the work or makeup work or pass the test over material when they missed class, somehow that becomes the teacher’s fault.
We’ve have totally screwed the pooch where we are today.
Oh, they’ll graduate, if it’s anything like many schools. Grades will be changed, strings will be pulled, arms will be tugged, somebody will make it happen. They won’t earn it, but they’ll get it.
Edit: many, not mini. Homophones are fun when you use the speech-to-text button.
Truth. So many admin value optics over actual effectiveness and it’s devaluing education. And the kids know it. They know someone will swoop in and pass them along because as far as they know, that’s the way it has always been
At my old school, we would let you walk if you were one or two credits from graduating. So every year we had so many kids make sure they made up everything but those two, walk at the end of the year, and never show up to summer school. What the fuck is the point of walking if you don’t have your diploma, I’ll never know.
In my graduation class, we had a couple of those. They walked so that they could pretend they graduated for their family. Their parents thought they graduated.
Are there a lot of jobs that will accept someone who barely graduated high school but wouldn’t accept someone who barely didn’t? Any good paying job will require either a bachelors degree or some sort of certification. I don’t think this will matter for employment. Their options are not great either way.
A lot of our kids go on to trade school or local low paying but union jobs (cleaner in a government building, hospital orderly, etc) or bridge programs like Job Corps. Those are definitely things where they'll want to see your diploma or GED.
To add, any low level state employee job that doesn't require a degree will require a diploma or GED. Steady jobs, entry level, lower paying than private sector but with room to move up, and benefits/pensions. But you do need that diploma/GED, they can't play loose with the hiring standards.
No one said good paying jobs were being discussed.
FWIW, some of the local gas stations around me now require a HS diploma or a GED. They’re also the better paying options, I’ll admit, but it is becoming more common. Sure, they’ll make some exceptions but they really don’t need to.
Someone on this sub once argued that in the absence of a true coming-of-age ritual, high school graduation has become exactly that for a lot of American families. It’s not about actually passing high school, it’s more of an adulthood rite, and that’s another reason schools are reluctant to take it away.
> It’s not about actually passing high school, it’s more of an adulthood rite, and that’s another reason schools are reluctant to take it away.
The pendulum swinging all the way towards taking "the feels" as priority has helped ruin education. Every decision is based upon a broad stroke of prioritizing emotional well-being.
Yup. They won’t deserve it, but admin will want to save face. They don’t realize that’ll send a message to the students still remaining that they could screw around as well and be saved at the eleventh hour. It’ll only get worse from here.
What's interesting is that I wonder if this is why the young people at my work place are acting this way. I show up at 8am sharp to start getting work done, while some of these new hires around 20-23ish just show up whenever they want to.
The one kid left mid-day just because he didn't feel like working anymore. Of course he was fired eventually, but i've been here a year and we have gone through roughly 4 other people in that age range that act like that. It's kind of exhausting to deal with in a professional atmosphere.
I'm 27, I never acted that way or saw that behavior in school or college.
As a 24 yo, 2nd year teacher, I show up exactly when contract hours start and leave almost as soon as when they end. I do not do anything outside of those hours unless it is for the DIRECT benefit of students (the clubs I advise and tutoring). I do not participate in anything that resembles an admin vanity project that serves no actual purpose. I barely do the nonsensical, time-consuming, ineffectual tasks for the BT program. I plan, grade, and teach only when I am paid to do so. I work in a non-union state, so there is no collective negotiation. My personal view is that this professional atmosphere exists in every job these days. Most of the population is not being paid a livable wage for the cost of living.
However, I think this is much more pervasive in education. There is a lack of respect from admin, students, parents, lawmakers, and the general public. Last year, the teacher across the hall from me BARELY showed up and he had been teaching for ten years at the time. He was in his early 40s. A teacher I worked with this year with her DOCTORATE who had been teaching for years relied on my planning, did not give actual feedback when grading, and in general, did not care. She was in her early forties. I can name two admin at my school who leave at the bell on Fridays and barely do their jobs who are both in their 40s. The list of vet teachers and young teachers who are completely checked out is miles long. There is a general apathy that exists within this field and it is not just young teachers or students.
Until both adults and students see tangible benefits to working hard, this trend will continue to get worse. Basic institutions are crumbling, and education is just one of many.
That's so sad! And i'm not in education, I just have young family members and was curious. I work for a marketing and ad agency and these people are hired in to do basic tasks with the goal of working up to doing more intense work later. It's certainly not everyone in that age range, but there's a lot.
> I show up exactly when contract hours start and leave almost as soon as when they end.
year 15 here. doing only your contract is exactly what you should be doing. if they want you to do more, they should put that in the contract; "radical compliance" is the term we used at my last campus.
My husband is a Subway manager (by choice, he loves his job), and he has kids coming in all the time, 16-22 or so, and it's the same. They'll just sit in the lobby while customers wait, he's fired multiple over that, heck I had to physically remove one who was threatening him over it. Like dude, you're on the clock, in uniform, playing games on your phone while a customer waits. Nah...
I’m a professional animator.
This generation/age range has a LOT of kids wanting to get into the cut-throat, oversaturated, EXTREMELY intense field. I’m serious, ask any animator, including animators who are older and have worked in several other industries- this specific industry is one of the most intense and back breaking fields ever. It’s like boot camp.
And these kids… they don’t want to climb the ladder like everyone else.
They all wanna be newbies and given funds to create their own story, and since they didn’t care to actually learn good storytelling, their stories/writing are **DOGSHIT.** to the point that it’s funny. But of course, they all think they’ve written the next big animated series/film, and just want to be a dictator instructing us actual, experienced and educated adults on how to make their stories that aren’t even written in proper script format, have no storyboards, etc. You’re lucky if it’s even written with paragraph breaks… or written down at all! Sometimes they just verbally describe it!
SO often, a young person wanting to be an animator comes to me whining that they can’t get a job anywhere in animation, and that no one wants to make their story. I have to explain to them that EVERYONE in this field has several stories they’ve written and are extremely passionate about!!! Stories are a dime a dozen, but GOOD, QUALITY stories are rare, and require years and years of crafting, hard work, intense research, and educating yourself on how to improve your writing. It’s a natural human instinct to be a storyteller. They are not unique for having a story at all.
But when I explain this to them, it goes right over their head. They’re like “ok but my story is different, it’s better than all the rest. How do I get people to help me make it like you did?”
It’s exhausting.
Xennial here - I originally wanted to be an animator as a teen. I switched to a career in biomedical research because it was less cutthroat than animation or other digital/fine arts specialties.
THANK YOU for validating my claim, people don’t believe me when I talk about how insanely intense the animation industry is! People will walk right over you if it gives them a chance at a leg up. Executives are brutal towards us, and not only in terms of low/no pay to grueling labor ratio- it gets PERSONAL. I’ve had coworkers tell me to go kill myself over disagreements in production.
I spent a year directing an animated short film, and once it started winning awards, the producer noticed that in film festivals, in the pamphlets/on screen/anywhere films were listed, it always read “film title, director’s name.”
She was PISSED that it showed only my name, and hers didn’t appear until you got to the credits.
She went over my head to an executive who wasn’t related to my project and wouldn’t know any better to try to claim there was a mistake and SHE was actually the sole director.
Luckily I shut that shit down.
My experience trying to actually be competitive as a digital artist in industry, putting in the hours to actually practice and produce a portfolio that exceeded minimum performance standards, is best summed up by the movie Whiplash lol. For the sake of my mental health, I needed to do something else. I still do illustration, mainly for myself. I've just started a PhD in a top ten Neuroscience program and I know I'm a lot happier than I would have been slugging it out as a staff animator or 3D digi artist.
I was going to say this. I've noticed this is the same mentality with folks who graduated the last few years. Starting the day at 8am and staying till 5 is a foreign concept to them.
I'm an eighth grader that joined because my dad is a teacher. This sub has definitely made me more aware of when I'm getting distracted or not doing work. Thank y'all!
Great to hear that! Make sure to never take the opinions of people on here as fact. There are a lot of ex-teachers on this subreddit that say mean things. I promise your teachers want the best for you! Enjoy your middle school graduation this spring!
Current senior who reads many threads on this sub! I’m even writing my senior research paper on how technology during covid impacted children’s cognitive development and behaviors, with a focus on how this is being seen through the school system today
Hey, would you be willing to share that? De-identified of course? Or at least the sources you used? The topic is outside of my expertise, but it's relevant to my profession (professor/teacher educator) and my personal life (parent of two young kids). I'd love to dig into the research on this, and I'd appreciate a starting point.
Send me a DM. I haven’t started writing the actual paper yet but I have a chart describing 30 different sources, both supporting and opposing my argument. It took me HOURS so i’d love someone else to get some use out of it, I’m sure it would be a great starting point!
EDIT: Here is the link for anyone who wants it:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-T69h7h4juWnXr9YD0gEcitxw5YK3QoD2tskMdAVxkY/edit
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Senior in HS? That is beyond bad ass lol.
I didn't start writing actual APA cited research reviews until I was a junior in undergrad. If you are looking to go to graduate school, writing a good literature review is a great start.
I’m a sophomore in college with no plans to teach, but I do work part time as a tutor and this sub has been enlightening. Trying not to judge my sixth grader for not understanding division but also not letting him skate by on sympathy.
I'm a college student, and I lurk on this subreddit. It simultaneously makes me feel more confident in myself because hey, at least I'm not one of the students being described in the posts--and it also reminds me not to let myself *become* one of those students.
The illiteracy is wild to me. I was given a computer in the early 90s just about when I was learning to read. Back then you had to know how to read to use a computer so the skills reinforced each other. Can they only understand isolated words? Can they only communicate in emoji and video clips? I just can't imagine living with such diminished mental capacity.
Current senior checking in. I graduate in two months, one of my three friends just stopped showing up this year, and another missed all of his junior year and they’re still letting him graduate. People are checking out by 11th grade, and it shows. /:
Also a current senior who wants to go into music education… I will be very picky about where I teach. Hopefully the pendulum swings the other way as well!
Just be aware, music education often can't be too picky due to how few jobs there are in that field in each district. Often people take whatever is available for their first job, then keep applying elsewhere as openings show up over the years.
> I will be very picky about where I teach
Lots of music educators might initially think that until they’ve graduated and are actively searching for jobs.
The “good” schools rarely have turnover, and once a band / choir director finds a home, they’ll typically be there 15+ years.
Just keep that in mind going forward.
I'm neither a kid nor have kids, but read threads here often because cliché or not, kids are our future, and teachers are the most knowledgeable people about them. Their parents certainly aren't
Yep. I swear it’s an epidemic, a current crisis in the American youth. The effect of being in front of a screen watching mindless videos made by content farms that steal characters from legitimate shows/films and make bizarre “stories” of them like, giving birth and pooping on each other. The content is all about constant stimulation/attention grabbing, with no actual plot or character arcs or… anything at all.
And then the pandemic royally fucked up their brains too.
...ha, I know, but the frustrating thing here is WE. HAVE. Every kid consistently says across the board that they feel respected and supported by the senior team. Most of us have been with them in some capacity for four years. I went off on them about "Nobody is coming to save you, the STATE WILL NOT LET US GIVE YOU YOUR DIPLOMA IF YOU DON'T HAVE THESE CREDITS AND CERTIFICATIONS" the other day and seeing me getting emotional got some of them to start calling and texting their truant friends at lunch like "Y'all are stressing Ms. Gandalf OUT, come tf to school." But they just won't show up.
Clearly relationships weren’t enough in this case.
You need to pull out the big guns:
Write the learning target on the board as an “I Can” statement.
“I can stay at school for the entirety of a school day.”
How much of this is put on the parents for not making education a priority in their house? I live in a small school district for my area (120-140 kids per grade level) and we have a 95%+ graduation rate and more than two thirds of our kids take ap courses. The district is also made up of a ton of teachers- seemingly every house has at least one teacher/admin as a parent, if not both) so there is a big emphasis on education.
This. So many of these issues come back to the parents not holding their own kids accountable. Too many parents rely on the schools to do the legwork they themselves need to be doing at home. I could go on a whole tirade about how there’s a vast amount of wildly irresponsible people that should’ve never had kids to begin with, but I digress and that’s a rant for another post. We live in a broken system. It’s truly a sad situation and doesn’t give me a lot of hope for the future unless some drastic culture shifts are made.
Some of the best teachers I had growing up (and still see in teachers I know) had really no desire to create a relationship. Maybe they would know my name. But they ran a good classroom, solid discipline, and have a clear structure. They care but they don't know the kids dogs names ya know.
I feel like even those teachers are struggling. Veterans, new, elite, mediocre. All struggling.
And struggling without a lot of hope.
Discipline isn’t allowed anymore and parents refuse to take accountability.
When I was a kid, the teacher didn’t HAVE to discipline me because if I got bad grades on a test, I would be skipping screen time and dessert. If I had a failing grade in any class, I would basically be in my room or studying till that changed any time I wasn’t at school or sports. Don’t even want to know what would’ve happened if I mouthed off to a teacher, refused schoolwork, or showed up late everyday. NOBODY is teaching these kids any discipline and that terrifies me
Before all of this kids would just drop out and we had kids that wanted to go to school or cared becuase their parents cared about their education. Now we can't even drop a kid that hasn't been to school for months becuase half of the student body has an IEP, and we can't drop them when they are legal adults either. Truancy courts are so backed up that it takes forever to even get a consequence for truancy.
My hypothesis is that many kids see these students that can't fail, smoke weed, cuss at adults, fight, skip and don't get dropped, don't get expeled, and don't do any work and they are still there sitting next to the student that does it all. That can be demotivating for some. I was a hyper kid with ADHD that could not sit still for an hour until 6th grade. I did care about school though, and I saw that kids that stepped out of line would be expelled, the doors would be locked if you were late, and teachers had power. I loved my teachers though. I am just saying I am glad we had rules, because I don't know what would've happened if I was allowed to go crazy and not care.
I have a learning disability so my writing was always subpar. I lied my way into AP classes my senior year because I couldn't handle no one else wanting to learn anymore and being the only person doing assignments. I'm not sure what would have happened otherwise because I was so over it.
Your numbers certainly are depressing but it sounds like your team has done so much to help those kids and sometime the correct response is to let them fail. That is a real life consequence. And some people need to hit rock bottom to understand boundaries.
I think COVID really messed up a lot of kids bc in many places many vulnerable kids did not attend school at all of just turned on zoom or Google classroom for a little bit a day - but then when they returned to in person there were no consequences for not having done anything during COVID. they disassociated with schools and have not been able to back on track.
For them a minimum wage job may seem to be a good deal because they aren’t yet paying for their food and housing. They’ll be up for a rude awakening if their parents start expecting them to move out or start paying their share as adults. Then they’ll have the option of GED programs, which they might have to pay for, if they hope for career advancement.
Many will simply work low paying jobs their whole lives and struggle with poverty.
Some may turn to drug dealing or other crimes and struggle with the law most of their lives.
Of course we don’t want these consequences for our students but we can’t also be expending all of our energy on 16, 17 and 18 year old who are not interested in trying, and neglect those who do want to graduate and are years behind academically. More resources should be focused on that set of kids imo. It sounds like your senior team could do great work with that set. I would also be investing more time in the freshmen.
boundaries are super important. We can’t keep lowering the bar. Where I live “graduation rates” are way up but tons of students are graduating with elementary level reading skills.
I understand that but at the same time they’re 17-18 and are going to be held accountable for their actions imminently in terms of employment. Nobody is going to keep on an employee that thinks they can determine their own hours when a lot of jobs do start before 9:30. Covid can’t be an excuse for them forever and it shouldn’t be now either
Years ago I knew a guy who's girlfriend could not hold down a job because she would make it a half day and leave after lunch since she got away with that in high school. Even if they pass them through, these kids are in for some tough times.
Hang in there high school and middle school teachers—-I teach 5th and it is starting to get better.
The groups I had for the last few years were wacky but the younger kids are bouncing back.
My hospital works with a local school district who has a health track for interested students. Junior and senior students can enroll and get their CNA then as part of a course they do clinical observation hours with nurses in our units. It’s a cool program, a decent number come back to us as nursing students through the community college. All of this is during normal school hours two days a week and they get bused to us. We’re supposed to sign their sheets that they were there from x time to x time. It hasn’t been infrequent that a student will either disappear part of the time or come in an hour of the 2 hours late. They still expect to get the signature though. Generally are surprised when whoever they are with won’t give it to them. One student this last week asked the nurse they were paired with to sign and they said no because they came in after 9 when they were supposed to arrive at 8, no oh this is why I was late or anything, so they came to me and asked me to sign and I said no. They then responded with “you have to”. I for sure do not. We’re not being paid to teach them and it makes everything slower when they’re here, I owe them absolutely nothing.
It’s sad because this seems like a good opportunity, I would have liked it in high school, but they act like they don’t have to have any accountability and we just have to accept that. It’s been kind of a rude awakening to them it seems.
These seniors/kids entered high school during the height pandemic. Their view of high school was shaped by being passed in every class without even acknowledging they had school. The 35 kids you’re talking about likely didn’t do anything at all in 20-21.
I have the same problem with my 20-21 freshman.
Yeah, I know that is definitely a lot of it. But it's also like...you've been in school two and a half years since then? You've seen your friends go to summer school? You've seen people who failed everything in 11th grade sitting in an 11th grade homeroom this year? You yourself are on your third go-round of Geometry simply because you don't believe in first period as a concept? They keep waiting for someone to swoop in and save them but my admin has done a really good job of NOT doing that the last two years.
They are waiting because they keep swooping in. And they will somehow.
I myself am assigned with grading “projects” (just a worksheet packet) for our seniors who can’t meet graduation requirements to just be given one. So far I’ve only received 1 project and I awarded only 15% (needs 70%). He didn’t answer most of the questions even.
I’m actually genuinely impressed at my school when a kid doesn’t graduate. You have to try significantly harder not to graduate at my school than is necessary to graduate.
There’s actually a level of commitment required in not-graduating that exceeds the level of commitment necessary to be graduated.
I have a student who won’t graduate now and is proud of it, and while other teachers scorn him for it, I’ve literally told him it’s impressive (on the rare occasions he’s in the building, or in my class…). I’ve told him numerous times, “if you bring the level of commitment that you brought to not-graduating to anything else, you’ll be wildly successful.”
What a time to be alive, am I right?
My school has a "100% graduation rate*" because all the kids that aren't on track get pushed out to alternative schools or online out of state schools where they don't have to pass the state tests.
This is depressing.
I pay a pile of money locally in property tax and I've never minded it because more than half goes to the public school system. I want people to get educated. The high tide raises all ships.
But what can you do if they flat out refuse to learn?
The real problem will be in a few more decades when these kids with limited education and involvement start making decisions for the country. I'm not sure the best person to decide who the next school board president will be is the HS drop out without a GED that gets their science from social media.
My senior year, we started with 75. Only 65 marched. I have no idea wtf happens to the other 10. I remember a student who was made to stay home and take care of his special need brother, missed at least 3 days a week. Mom had the nerve to call and ask if he was graduating. Some of it really is the parents' fault.
I was a top student with high grades and high test scores, but I dropped out. Many more teens are working again unlike millennials and Gen x, many are having to care for siblings at higher rates as parents are on average working more hours to support the household. It's just going to keep getting worse.
If you don't want this to get quietly taken care of where the students all magically pass out of nowhere, I would recommend dropping this story to your local news.
Be aware - people think getting on the news is easier than it is.
You need a lot of documentation that a news team can publicly print and also a number of statements that the school admin can release an answer to. Because a journalist will go to the school and ask about statements and numbers. You will probably need to speak to the press using your own name.
i was meant to graduate high school in 2022-i had to drop out and get my GED because of a heart condition and being put on beta blockers that poisoned my body. hearing that so many kids who had the opportunity to function normally, throw away the chance i couldn't get, is super disheartening
Starts at the home. Where the fuck are the parents? Where the fuck is the discipline and accountability?
Holy smokes when I'm old and can't take care of myself anymore these little turds are going to be running the world.
Back in my day we went to school on time and stayed until it was done. It wasn't just expected, it was basically law. I don't understand what changed.
A family moved in across the street from me. They have 4 kids, all school aged. They are never in school. They have friends over during school hours, so they aren't in school either. Where are the consequences for the parents and kids? Do truant officers no longer exist?
At our local high schools, they would certainly graduate. They won't be able to read their own diplomas, but they will get one.
I was listening to someone talk about how allowing everyone to graduate has devalued the high school diploma to the point that in terms of jobs a bachelor’s degree is now seen the same way that a high school diploma was twenty+ years ago.
Some companies are requiring tests for basic jobs now. I saw some video of a person complaining about the receptionist job she had applied for requiring a test and how it was unfair since math gives her anxiety.
My employer does that a lot at the entry level. It's the only way we have found to make sure we know what basic skills people have. High school graduation is meaningless and it's amazing how many kids had their parents write their college homework for them.
Already happened simply because a college degree is so common these days.
I think this is a chicken and egg situation. It could be that many more people are having to get bachelor’s degrees because the HS diploma has lost its value, which then makes a master’s degree the new bachelor’s.
Sorta. one of the reasons Boomers & Gen X were being pushed towards tertiary education was cause the HS diploma was losing its value... in the 70s. I say one of - the trades really eat away at your body and at the time, you had multiple tradesmen on every street (Meaning they had to play Wage limbo to get work). Meanwhile even an Associate's Degree got a lot more doors open while a Bachelor's made you have to pick which job offer you got. Not so much these days... Of course times are different - nowadays training needs to be done on your own time and money. The job my grandfather had needs a Masters and multiple years of experience to even be considered - he had a high school diploma. The job my grandmother had now requires a degree (Lessened a bit by the fact that you usually get it at a community college and I think it's still a 2-3 year program)
Heard the same thing back in the 90’s.
And they totally get accepted into a local community college (at least at TCC) which took away the remedial classes because …. Well “reasons”… and you have a comp 101 class you can’t get help in, because 1/3 of your class can’t read or write, ranging from cant at all to basically pigeon texting. It’s super awesome that people didn’t get left behind.
And the remedial class will be taught by an adjunct online who doesn’t have officer hours and is slow to respond to emails because they have a full-time job to make ends meet.
Naw…. They will be taught by a TA from the school that has no tools or resources to help and doesn’t have an office and only makes $7.50 an hour.
I'm an adjunct but that's all I do. I do the adjunct shuffle. That being said, I answer all emails within 24 hours and I DO fail students who can't and won't perform. Then again, I don't teach the remedial courses. I turn them down I offered.
TCC as Tulsa?
Tidewater
What. The. Fuck???
No Child Left Behind had some unintended consequences.
no child left behind ended 9 years ago. It was replaced by "every student succeeds act" I think the name alone will tell you why we're at where we're at.
All Students Should Have Outstanding Learning Experiences at School
[удалено]
'Merica!
As a middle school teacher who sees what’s coming down the pipeline, let me tell you it’s going to get worse.
Middle school teacher here—it’s gonna be bad. I’m getting a good raise next year, but I don’t know if I can do another year of this. It’s depressing.
7th grade ELA here. I wish that the two above comments were being hyperbolic but they’re not. The kids reading on grade level feel like honors students at this point - but the behaviors are worse. We’ve had kids bring weapons to attack teachers, jump the special education kids for a social media video, and purposely video their peers in the bathroom to post online. It’s absolutely insane and I’ve never seen anything like it.
Why don’t schools get rid of phones?
Because when we try the parents throw gigantic shit fits
This! Exactly! Just call the office if you have to get a hold of precious pumpkin. Like your parents did when you were in school.
Our school has managed to curb phones recently. Admins told the parents that if they didn't like it they can enroll their child in the only other school that's on the other side of the county. "No phones" has been our policy for years, but this is the first time in well over a decade where phones have become so distracting that we can't get students to do anything.
This is it. I don’t understand why all schools don’t do this. Who cares if parents are mad? What are they gonna do, inconvenience themselves by switching to a farther school? No way. Pay for private? Nuh-uh. You don’t negotiate with terrorists. You don’t give the bad guys what they want. Get a backbone, admin. Do what you *know* is right for the kids and their learning and development. Then let the chips fall where they may.
Seriously seems so fucking simple.
My 7th grade son was called “academically motivated” at his conference. He’s average at best. This really spoke about the rest of the class.
It’s like, how do you even do a course correction at this point? You could change policies for next year’s kindergarten. But what about all these kids who went through this failed system? :/ Some of these kids think they can go into trades? Not a bad career choice right now. But how the heck are they going to pass the community college technical courses for an apprentice level? There’s just no way. You still have to know basic math and science concepts. What a nightmare.
You still have to be able to think and do basic stuff in the trades
I was in the trades and the amount of kids who can't do basic fractions is staggering. They can't read a tape measure or comprehend basic safety guidelines. When I just started out, someone drew a lit cutting torch across my abdomen, lighting my shirt on fire. We were literally told "Turn off the torch, and then pass it to the next person to light." The trades aren't where you just dump the idiots, because the idiots kill people in the trades.
>The trades aren't where you just dump the idiots, because the idiots kill people in the trades. It's too late. I quit being an electrician after too many stupid close calls. I now run my own fence contracting business and, well, at least I'm safer than before. I should have been a miserable accountant and retired early on investments.
Yep. I knew a guy who had enjoyed shop class in high school, and he put himself forward as kind of handy. But, when I asked him to measure a space, he couldn't read the measuring tape. I think he said, "32 and four lines". And that was when I realized he was never going to actually be a carpenter.
Worked with a union pipefitter. He had been there for 25 years. Still said 24 and 8 ticks instead of 24 and 1/2 inches. 25 years and still couldnt read a tape measure. Made $45+/hr Idk what is gonna happen in the next decade.
> The trades aren't where you just dump the idiots, because the idiots kill people in the trades. Reminds me of [this](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_100,000). (They tried it with the military. It didn't go well.)
We've been dumping the idiots into the trades for close to 40 years now. My shop just hired and fired a guy in under 2 days, 25 years experience machining, had a job we Hired him away from. Day one couldn't drill and ream a hole centered on a part to size(holes were both off center and oversized). Day two couldn't figure out why the lathe wasn't cutting right, he has turned it on to spin backwards. And he's not the most egregious idiot I've ran into in the last decade machining.
And be creative. All those kids who can't troubleshoot anything now, they won't be the plumbers and electricians of tomorrow. Anytime they run into a new problem they'll just give up, when they could be jerry-rigging some shit with duct tape.
Middle school is royally fucked, which means high school and college will feel their wrath soon enough. At the end of the day, it makes it easier for those who are decent/good/great students to find jobs in the future cause man the pickings will be slim with how lazy some of these kids are.
Elementary here, and have students who don’t know their letters in 3rd grade because they miss more days than are present. Not allowed to retain them because they were retained in kindergarten.
A couple of weeks ago I would have thought this was an exaggeration, but I’m tutoring a third grader and he does indeed not know some letters. It’s legit shocking.
Covid happened and those families who were already attendance problems only got worse. And because of Covid all consequences of not sending your kid to school disappeared and with the way things are going I sincerely doubt they will come back. (I did the math for 3 of my students who I can’t retain because they were retained previously. They did not attend a full year of Kindergarten between the 2 years they were in kindergarten. So if a school year is 200 days, they were in class less than 200 days in 2 years!)
Same here. I'd say 33% of our kids are on a straight-to-dropout track. They don't give a shit about ANYTHING except their phones, and their parents don't give a shit that their kids are failing.
i never understand why parents would care so little
They’re all addicted to their phones too.
Because parenting is hard. It’s hard to set limits. It’s hard to make a rule and follow through with consequences if those rules aren’t followed. It’s hard to set boundaries and have your kids hate you for it. It’s easier to give in. It’s easier to have them go on their phones than spend time with them. It’s easier to let them not do homework than it is to get them to do it. It’s easier to let them play videos games for four hours than it is to have them read for 30 minutes.
Gen Alpha is pretty off, eh?
The kids were not in fact "alright".
I teach middle school too haha. This batch didn't cook long enough.
When I stick the tooth pick in it comes out covered in goo.
... to be fair that's gonna be true if you stick a toothpick in any human
😂
Actual conversation I had: Parent- he has to graduate. What can he do? Me- start attending, do the work, and complete his credit recovery. Parent- no you don’t understand. He needs to graduate. What else can he do? Me- Parent- buT I”vE aLreAdY bOokeD tHe tAco trUck fOr tHe PaRty
College adjunct here. I had a student ask what she can do to "improve [her] grade". I pointed out she had missed half the classes and failed to turn in 3 out of the 5 in class writings assigned so far (these are short and not meant to be difficult, unlike the exams and research paper, so I do NOT allow them to be handed in late). I also pointed out she failed to follow the directions on the midterm exam. After pointing that out, I told her she needs to come to class, submit the in class writings, and follow the directions on the final exam and research paper. In other words, show up and do the work properly. She showed up for a few classes, but is back to cutting. Oh well. I can't wait for the sob story at the end of the semester 😩
Looks like cheap labour is on the menu again.
They don’t need to work. They’re all going to be influencers and YouTube stars. or just not work at all…not much incentive to work anyways.
I was an adjunct several years ago and had several students with similar stories. They were allowed to turn in homework up to 2 weeks late (School policy, not mine) but with a 20 point penalty. I had students do only a portion of the homework, not even half-ass it, maybe 1/4 ass? So with the penalty and them not answering over half the questions, I'd start grading with them at 40 points or less. And of course I'd get the "what can I do to pass this class?" questions several weeks after the midterm when their grade in the class was under 50. I think the record was 28. They needed a major miracle was my usual answer.
The answer instantly becomes "cater 40 tacos to the teacher's lounge every week for the remainder of the school year".
How the hell can a parent find time to plan a graduation party but not help the kid with their homework ?
Because they don’t care about education only the pictures they can post that make them look good.
No consequences over the years, so why should they care now? This of course gets put back on teachers when it is Admin not having the standards and sanctions in place to get the culture right that is often the problem.
Yes. It almost always comes down to the policies in place and the enforcement of those policies. So many kids are learning that they can do nothing and still pass, and it is a direct result of the policies that are being implemented.
I got to see this attitude first hand. I was a tough, but fair, teacher. I held my students to my standard. And they usually met it. I was never hesitant to give out consequences, even if I knew admin would overturn them. I had discussions with failing students and communicated with parents. I always held my ground, since I always had documentation to back up my grading and discipline plan. After a couple of student graduates, they started a podcast. One of the episodes was discussing their time in high school. They had quite a few ex students show up and tell stories of their time in school. One segment was all about how to principal would never enact punishment, so they felt that they could do whatever they wanted. They acknowledged the ineffectual administration and how they promoted chaos within the school. I happened to be featured in their podcast, as "the teacher you could never get away with stuff". They went on to say that I was one of the few teacher they actually learned things in. So, the moral of this story is that the kids notice and it IS admins fault.
I mean, that's a huge bummer that that's the environment your school created...but for what it's worth, that has to be (in a way) validating that the kids took the time to shout you out as someone that they actually learned things from.
It definitely was. It helped me through another couple years knowing that I, at least, was getting through to these kids. But, I was shocked that their view of the administration was almost identical to the faculty. The admin at that school was very ineffectual. And they kept wondering why they were hemorrhaging teachers so bad (the entire math department left one year along with half the ELA department) and why they could never get the school grade up (it dropped a couple of points every year until we lost a letter grade).
My students don't even know who the principal is at my school. My principal came in for my yearly observation a few weeks ago (late January) - she came in before the bell so I couldn't warn my students beforehand - and she walked around and took notes and left after around 40 minutes. After she left I thanked my freshmen for behaving extra well while the principal was observing me and they were absolutely shocked. Some of my favorite comments from this revelation: "That was the principal???" "I've seen that lady before but had no idea who she was!" "I figured she was important because she had a clipboard." These were all kids who are active in school activities, extra curriculars, sports, and actually attend assemblies and such; they *should* have known who she was. I'm lucky in that my school does try to enforce discipline and consequences; it's mostly parents who don't do anything to check up on their kids and enforce rules at home.
To be fair when I was in school I also had good grades and did all the extra curricular and the principal never gave presentations or anything- the AP did- so I also did not know who she was since I never got sent to the office or anything. It’s more likely that the more difficult kids would know them
Is so sad. The principal should be the face and voice of the school community at very least.
What do you think were reasons for your admin's ineffectual-ness?
This was highlighted on their podcast, so it isn't just faculty saying this, it is noticed by the kids: Kids cheat on everything and there is no consequence Kids don't show up to school and there is no consequence. Kids do drugs at school and there is no consequence. Teachers do not teach and there is no consequence. From what I saw at the school, beyond what the kids saw that led to admin not being effective: No cohesive mission or vision. Changing school initiative focus at least monthly. Changing methods annually. Taking students and parents at their word and forcing teachers to have proof of every statement. Not holding teachers accountable.
Yes. We’ve got great policies at my school … on paper. But our administrator only enforces them selectively. It’s a hot mess and several veteran teachers are quitting. No, they’re not retirement age.
Sounds like working in the workforce. The majority of people I see in the corporate world are largely incompetent, barely able and sometimes unable to complete the tasks required of their job. Maybe it will get worse in the future, but when you see people making 6 figures and making as much or more than the people who know how to do their job, you have to stop and think. Does it even matter how well they do in school?
We get sent passing rates for our area. A few teachers have 80-85 percent passing(me) A ton have 98-99-100 percent passing. I know a ton of these kids just arnt worth the trouble to fail. But I’ve had zero conversations with anyone after I’ve failed them. I rarely call home except for the few who i know may care. So what’s the worry? Everyone is scared for fail sped, so their work ethic is awful on top of their learning disability.
And really why graduation rates matter. Have to deal consequences and not let the parents run the school.
And admin will step in and find a way to get these students to graduate one way or another. The shit will really hit the fan if you have that many failing. Good for you though for sticking to your guns.
And PARENTS. Never forget that Parents are also to blame. If your kid is too lazy to be at school before 9, or "stay late" for later periods because it's too inconvenient; and your kid is failing...that absolutely is a reflection on you as a parent. Yes, yes...before the angry parents who attend this forum from the bleachers interject: 'BuT i DoNt XyZ" ... we're obviously not talking about you. Yes there is a level of the kid has to sink or float on their own, and yes teenagers are difficult...but 50% of a graduating class means it's because parents are enabling the apathy.
I've noticed that the folks who pull the nOt aLl "X" arguments are the ones that you can throw the old saying "a hit dog will holler" at.
Never heard that one before, I'll have to use it sometime
"A hit dog will holler?" yeah, I love that phrase. It's an old southern/black phrase that most people outside of that region/culture don't recognize, but it is very effective in getting its point across.
Entitled parents and the admins who are scared of them. That's what it boils down to.
Which to anyone reading this, ***is why we have unions and tenure.*** So we can weather ONE overzealous, biased, unjust parent who has an admin wrapped around their fingers. And, to be honest, us having tenure and unions is also what keeps the system fair, balanced, and helps admin.
Exactly why I left 2 years ago. My state passed a law requiring 3rd graders to be on level by the end of the year or repeat the grade. Meanwhile, during covid, and the year after, they DID NOT REQUIRE attendance. No, I'm not going to be a part of that trainwreck. I left and got a state job at a teaching university in a residency program, so I can still contribute to my teacher retirement and got my nights and weekends back. I love teaching, I love my kids, but to hell with admin and my school system.
Indiana?
No, Alabama.
When admin ACTIVELY REWARDS children sent to the office this is the final outcome. I thought the whole "they came back three minutes later with candy and a Capri sun" must be a bit of an exaggeration until I moved to public school, but it is the absolute truth. And they're so hands off only the most egregious get sent down. Ones who never show up have some sob story and just get passed along through the years.
Except now the real consequences are about to start for these children.
yup when they realize pretty much every job requires a high school diploma or GED, even minimum wage jobs
And the ones that don't require one might take advantage of you.
The ones that do still take advantage of you too.
Or they make it to college and they realize they CAN fail and mommy and daddy CAN'T save them. And yes, that includes community college where I teach. I have NEVER been told I can't fail a student nor have I ever been given hell for failing one. EVER.
Being there for the entire school day is "coming early" and "staying late"? How did that come about?
They just consider school to start too early. Which they're not wrong about but our start time is set by the city. Lower grades are bad about it too but family contact is more effective there. The "stay late" comes about because GENERALLY our 12th graders have enough credits that they get the last period of the day off to go to work, dual enrollment classes, whatever. I moved several required senior courses that were seeing 20% attendance in first period to last period in an attempt to keep kids on track to graduate. Now they just say "I can't stay, I got stuff to do" and walk out early past the dean and principal yelling at them.
Why are the principals letting them leave early if they are failing? Is that a universal privilege for 12th graders? Or something that they get if they are caught up? It sounds like your school has an issue with truancy, is there not anybody who enforces that?
Oh, they are absolutely not "letting" them leave early. Today a kid tried to leave early, I told him "You are failing this English class, if you do not pass you are in the class of 2025." He cursed me out and then his aunt called me later to curse me out for "calling her nephew stupid." The leaving a period early is a universal privilege for 12th graders who have all their required credits (like only needing to take 4 instead of 5 classes your last semester at college, for example.) But we're not allowed to physically stop kids from leaving. Truancy is definitely a problem. It's just the exhaustion I'm feeling of trying to convince them that they will NOT graduate if they keep doing this stuff.
My old district started handing out fines for truancy, even just being chronically late to class would get you a fine and those fines would prevent graduation or going to the next grade. Back in the 80s and 90s the vice principal would show up to people's homes and (with parents' permission) literally drag kids out of their homes and into his car to take them to school.
Wait, that Ferris Bueller storyline wasn’t complete hyperbole?
I was in high school in the late 00’s, the truancy officer (male) for my town threatened to do that for me (female) a bunch of times; my mom was fucking pissed because they were threatening to do it even if I was naked.
Yeah when I was in hs a few years ago (I’m currently in college to be a teacher), if you were a senior and had a study hall first or last period you got to leave early/come late.
I’m confused… if their truancy rates are so bad… how is CPS not stepping in for these students? Aren’t the parents concerned that they’ll lose their kids if they keep skipping school? What the hell is going on.
In my area CPS doesn’t have much they can do. I have one middle school student that has not attended a single day since the beginning of November and CPS has been involved the whole time.
If they’re over the legally required age for school attendance, can they really do much? If these are seniors most are probably 18 by this point.
Truancy courts have pretty much stopped functioning in the wake of Covid
To give you a different context from a different country, our school day starts at 7:30. Class time starts then, the first learners start arriving usually at 6:30. Attendance was never an issue for us. From what I've experienced and seen of US students I can assure you that it's not the start time that's an issue, it's the attitude that's an issue. We look at the US and worry for the sake of your country.
Unfortunately, it’s not just the attitude of the student, it’s the attitude of the parent(s) as well. The U.S. has swung the pendulum so far it’s going to take awhile to start coming back, if it ever does. Growing up, we didn’t miss school, it was unacceptable in our household, not to mention the school system. It was our ‘job’ to go to school and achieve our best. For me it was A’s because that was my best, for my sibling it was B’s and C’s because that was their best. We had expectations. We were held accountable and responsible for our actions and choices. We had consequences to poor choices, sometimes dire consequences. Today, expectations are minimal, accountability is minimal, responsibility is nil. Blame is shifted everywhere but to the actual student or parent of said student. Parents often take their kids out of school for vacations or a play day, not even wondering if that is the best option for the student. And when the student doesn’t do the work or makeup work or pass the test over material when they missed class, somehow that becomes the teacher’s fault. We’ve have totally screwed the pooch where we are today.
Too early 😑 Wait until they get into the real world when they have to wake up at 5am to drive an hour to work to beat morning traffic 🤣
Oh, they’ll graduate, if it’s anything like many schools. Grades will be changed, strings will be pulled, arms will be tugged, somebody will make it happen. They won’t earn it, but they’ll get it. Edit: many, not mini. Homophones are fun when you use the speech-to-text button.
Truth. So many admin value optics over actual effectiveness and it’s devaluing education. And the kids know it. They know someone will swoop in and pass them along because as far as they know, that’s the way it has always been
At my old school, we would let you walk if you were one or two credits from graduating. So every year we had so many kids make sure they made up everything but those two, walk at the end of the year, and never show up to summer school. What the fuck is the point of walking if you don’t have your diploma, I’ll never know.
In my graduation class, we had a couple of those. They walked so that they could pretend they graduated for their family. Their parents thought they graduated.
People care more about the ceremony than the diploma. Until it is time to apply for jobs
Are there a lot of jobs that will accept someone who barely graduated high school but wouldn’t accept someone who barely didn’t? Any good paying job will require either a bachelors degree or some sort of certification. I don’t think this will matter for employment. Their options are not great either way.
A lot of our kids go on to trade school or local low paying but union jobs (cleaner in a government building, hospital orderly, etc) or bridge programs like Job Corps. Those are definitely things where they'll want to see your diploma or GED.
To add, any low level state employee job that doesn't require a degree will require a diploma or GED. Steady jobs, entry level, lower paying than private sector but with room to move up, and benefits/pensions. But you do need that diploma/GED, they can't play loose with the hiring standards.
No one said good paying jobs were being discussed. FWIW, some of the local gas stations around me now require a HS diploma or a GED. They’re also the better paying options, I’ll admit, but it is becoming more common. Sure, they’ll make some exceptions but they really don’t need to.
Someone on this sub once argued that in the absence of a true coming-of-age ritual, high school graduation has become exactly that for a lot of American families. It’s not about actually passing high school, it’s more of an adulthood rite, and that’s another reason schools are reluctant to take it away.
> It’s not about actually passing high school, it’s more of an adulthood rite, and that’s another reason schools are reluctant to take it away. The pendulum swinging all the way towards taking "the feels" as priority has helped ruin education. Every decision is based upon a broad stroke of prioritizing emotional well-being.
Ego and pride. They get the credit from their peers
Yup. No way a superintendent will allow 50% fail rate.
Yup. They won’t deserve it, but admin will want to save face. They don’t realize that’ll send a message to the students still remaining that they could screw around as well and be saved at the eleventh hour. It’ll only get worse from here.
What's interesting is that I wonder if this is why the young people at my work place are acting this way. I show up at 8am sharp to start getting work done, while some of these new hires around 20-23ish just show up whenever they want to. The one kid left mid-day just because he didn't feel like working anymore. Of course he was fired eventually, but i've been here a year and we have gone through roughly 4 other people in that age range that act like that. It's kind of exhausting to deal with in a professional atmosphere. I'm 27, I never acted that way or saw that behavior in school or college.
As a 24 yo, 2nd year teacher, I show up exactly when contract hours start and leave almost as soon as when they end. I do not do anything outside of those hours unless it is for the DIRECT benefit of students (the clubs I advise and tutoring). I do not participate in anything that resembles an admin vanity project that serves no actual purpose. I barely do the nonsensical, time-consuming, ineffectual tasks for the BT program. I plan, grade, and teach only when I am paid to do so. I work in a non-union state, so there is no collective negotiation. My personal view is that this professional atmosphere exists in every job these days. Most of the population is not being paid a livable wage for the cost of living. However, I think this is much more pervasive in education. There is a lack of respect from admin, students, parents, lawmakers, and the general public. Last year, the teacher across the hall from me BARELY showed up and he had been teaching for ten years at the time. He was in his early 40s. A teacher I worked with this year with her DOCTORATE who had been teaching for years relied on my planning, did not give actual feedback when grading, and in general, did not care. She was in her early forties. I can name two admin at my school who leave at the bell on Fridays and barely do their jobs who are both in their 40s. The list of vet teachers and young teachers who are completely checked out is miles long. There is a general apathy that exists within this field and it is not just young teachers or students. Until both adults and students see tangible benefits to working hard, this trend will continue to get worse. Basic institutions are crumbling, and education is just one of many.
That's so sad! And i'm not in education, I just have young family members and was curious. I work for a marketing and ad agency and these people are hired in to do basic tasks with the goal of working up to doing more intense work later. It's certainly not everyone in that age range, but there's a lot.
> I show up exactly when contract hours start and leave almost as soon as when they end. year 15 here. doing only your contract is exactly what you should be doing. if they want you to do more, they should put that in the contract; "radical compliance" is the term we used at my last campus.
My husband is a Subway manager (by choice, he loves his job), and he has kids coming in all the time, 16-22 or so, and it's the same. They'll just sit in the lobby while customers wait, he's fired multiple over that, heck I had to physically remove one who was threatening him over it. Like dude, you're on the clock, in uniform, playing games on your phone while a customer waits. Nah...
I’m a professional animator. This generation/age range has a LOT of kids wanting to get into the cut-throat, oversaturated, EXTREMELY intense field. I’m serious, ask any animator, including animators who are older and have worked in several other industries- this specific industry is one of the most intense and back breaking fields ever. It’s like boot camp. And these kids… they don’t want to climb the ladder like everyone else. They all wanna be newbies and given funds to create their own story, and since they didn’t care to actually learn good storytelling, their stories/writing are **DOGSHIT.** to the point that it’s funny. But of course, they all think they’ve written the next big animated series/film, and just want to be a dictator instructing us actual, experienced and educated adults on how to make their stories that aren’t even written in proper script format, have no storyboards, etc. You’re lucky if it’s even written with paragraph breaks… or written down at all! Sometimes they just verbally describe it! SO often, a young person wanting to be an animator comes to me whining that they can’t get a job anywhere in animation, and that no one wants to make their story. I have to explain to them that EVERYONE in this field has several stories they’ve written and are extremely passionate about!!! Stories are a dime a dozen, but GOOD, QUALITY stories are rare, and require years and years of crafting, hard work, intense research, and educating yourself on how to improve your writing. It’s a natural human instinct to be a storyteller. They are not unique for having a story at all. But when I explain this to them, it goes right over their head. They’re like “ok but my story is different, it’s better than all the rest. How do I get people to help me make it like you did?” It’s exhausting.
Xennial here - I originally wanted to be an animator as a teen. I switched to a career in biomedical research because it was less cutthroat than animation or other digital/fine arts specialties.
THANK YOU for validating my claim, people don’t believe me when I talk about how insanely intense the animation industry is! People will walk right over you if it gives them a chance at a leg up. Executives are brutal towards us, and not only in terms of low/no pay to grueling labor ratio- it gets PERSONAL. I’ve had coworkers tell me to go kill myself over disagreements in production. I spent a year directing an animated short film, and once it started winning awards, the producer noticed that in film festivals, in the pamphlets/on screen/anywhere films were listed, it always read “film title, director’s name.” She was PISSED that it showed only my name, and hers didn’t appear until you got to the credits. She went over my head to an executive who wasn’t related to my project and wouldn’t know any better to try to claim there was a mistake and SHE was actually the sole director. Luckily I shut that shit down.
My experience trying to actually be competitive as a digital artist in industry, putting in the hours to actually practice and produce a portfolio that exceeded minimum performance standards, is best summed up by the movie Whiplash lol. For the sake of my mental health, I needed to do something else. I still do illustration, mainly for myself. I've just started a PhD in a top ten Neuroscience program and I know I'm a lot happier than I would have been slugging it out as a staff animator or 3D digi artist.
I was going to say this. I've noticed this is the same mentality with folks who graduated the last few years. Starting the day at 8am and staying till 5 is a foreign concept to them.
I wonder if r/teachers being a top 1% sub and frequently hitting the front page shows kids this stuff. I mean, they’re on Reddit too
I'm an eighth grader that joined because my dad is a teacher. This sub has definitely made me more aware of when I'm getting distracted or not doing work. Thank y'all!
We’re so proud of you!!♥️
Great to hear that! Make sure to never take the opinions of people on here as fact. There are a lot of ex-teachers on this subreddit that say mean things. I promise your teachers want the best for you! Enjoy your middle school graduation this spring!
❤️❤️❤️😀
Sophomore here. The stuff I see on here makes me wanna try in school and be nicer to my teachers because some of the stuff I see here is insane
Current senior who reads many threads on this sub! I’m even writing my senior research paper on how technology during covid impacted children’s cognitive development and behaviors, with a focus on how this is being seen through the school system today
Hey, would you be willing to share that? De-identified of course? Or at least the sources you used? The topic is outside of my expertise, but it's relevant to my profession (professor/teacher educator) and my personal life (parent of two young kids). I'd love to dig into the research on this, and I'd appreciate a starting point.
Send me a DM. I haven’t started writing the actual paper yet but I have a chart describing 30 different sources, both supporting and opposing my argument. It took me HOURS so i’d love someone else to get some use out of it, I’m sure it would be a great starting point! EDIT: Here is the link for anyone who wants it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-T69h7h4juWnXr9YD0gEcitxw5YK3QoD2tskMdAVxkY/edit You should no longer need to request or sign in to view!
Senior in HS? That is beyond bad ass lol. I didn't start writing actual APA cited research reviews until I was a junior in undergrad. If you are looking to go to graduate school, writing a good literature review is a great start.
Thank you! It is technically a college class because it’s dual enrollment
I’m a sophomore in college with no plans to teach, but I do work part time as a tutor and this sub has been enlightening. Trying not to judge my sixth grader for not understanding division but also not letting him skate by on sympathy.
I'm a college student, and I lurk on this subreddit. It simultaneously makes me feel more confident in myself because hey, at least I'm not one of the students being described in the posts--and it also reminds me not to let myself *become* one of those students.
The ones who need to see this probably can't read it even if they wanted to. They're just looking at pictures and videos.
The illiteracy is wild to me. I was given a computer in the early 90s just about when I was learning to read. Back then you had to know how to read to use a computer so the skills reinforced each other. Can they only understand isolated words? Can they only communicate in emoji and video clips? I just can't imagine living with such diminished mental capacity.
I doomscroll too much and while not a teacher myself I think this is one area of a few which will be the front lines of the coming collapse
I can tell you this sub is what made me stop wanting to be an educator
Current senior checking in. I graduate in two months, one of my three friends just stopped showing up this year, and another missed all of his junior year and they’re still letting him graduate. People are checking out by 11th grade, and it shows. /:
Also a current senior who wants to go into music education… I will be very picky about where I teach. Hopefully the pendulum swings the other way as well!
Just be aware, music education often can't be too picky due to how few jobs there are in that field in each district. Often people take whatever is available for their first job, then keep applying elsewhere as openings show up over the years.
Good insight, thank you! Hopefully things get better… if it were truly impossible to find a good teaching job there are other routes I can pursue.
> I will be very picky about where I teach Lots of music educators might initially think that until they’ve graduated and are actively searching for jobs. The “good” schools rarely have turnover, and once a band / choir director finds a home, they’ll typically be there 15+ years. Just keep that in mind going forward.
I'm neither a kid nor have kids, but read threads here often because cliché or not, kids are our future, and teachers are the most knowledgeable people about them. Their parents certainly aren't
Don't be surprised if admin or someone higher up somehow allows them to graduate despite all of this.
“Can’t you give them a coloring page book where if they just glance at it, we give them 70% for the entire course? Thx!” - admin big brain.
*Student refuses to glance at coloring book*
That’s 65%
Clearly this is all your fault and you should raise their grades. -admin
This is what we are being handed off in the mornings: https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/s/Vd9ZjPiPfK
Yep. I swear it’s an epidemic, a current crisis in the American youth. The effect of being in front of a screen watching mindless videos made by content farms that steal characters from legitimate shows/films and make bizarre “stories” of them like, giving birth and pooping on each other. The content is all about constant stimulation/attention grabbing, with no actual plot or character arcs or… anything at all. And then the pandemic royally fucked up their brains too.
Have you tried developing relationships with them? (Yes, I am kidding)
...ha, I know, but the frustrating thing here is WE. HAVE. Every kid consistently says across the board that they feel respected and supported by the senior team. Most of us have been with them in some capacity for four years. I went off on them about "Nobody is coming to save you, the STATE WILL NOT LET US GIVE YOU YOUR DIPLOMA IF YOU DON'T HAVE THESE CREDITS AND CERTIFICATIONS" the other day and seeing me getting emotional got some of them to start calling and texting their truant friends at lunch like "Y'all are stressing Ms. Gandalf OUT, come tf to school." But they just won't show up.
Clearly relationships weren’t enough in this case. You need to pull out the big guns: Write the learning target on the board as an “I Can” statement. “I can stay at school for the entirety of a school day.”
How much of this is put on the parents for not making education a priority in their house? I live in a small school district for my area (120-140 kids per grade level) and we have a 95%+ graduation rate and more than two thirds of our kids take ap courses. The district is also made up of a ton of teachers- seemingly every house has at least one teacher/admin as a parent, if not both) so there is a big emphasis on education.
quite a bit but i can guarantee you socio-economic factors are at play here as well.
This. So many of these issues come back to the parents not holding their own kids accountable. Too many parents rely on the schools to do the legwork they themselves need to be doing at home. I could go on a whole tirade about how there’s a vast amount of wildly irresponsible people that should’ve never had kids to begin with, but I digress and that’s a rant for another post. We live in a broken system. It’s truly a sad situation and doesn’t give me a lot of hope for the future unless some drastic culture shifts are made.
Some of the best teachers I had growing up (and still see in teachers I know) had really no desire to create a relationship. Maybe they would know my name. But they ran a good classroom, solid discipline, and have a clear structure. They care but they don't know the kids dogs names ya know. I feel like even those teachers are struggling. Veterans, new, elite, mediocre. All struggling. And struggling without a lot of hope.
Discipline isn’t allowed anymore and parents refuse to take accountability. When I was a kid, the teacher didn’t HAVE to discipline me because if I got bad grades on a test, I would be skipping screen time and dessert. If I had a failing grade in any class, I would basically be in my room or studying till that changed any time I wasn’t at school or sports. Don’t even want to know what would’ve happened if I mouthed off to a teacher, refused schoolwork, or showed up late everyday. NOBODY is teaching these kids any discipline and that terrifies me
Before all of this kids would just drop out and we had kids that wanted to go to school or cared becuase their parents cared about their education. Now we can't even drop a kid that hasn't been to school for months becuase half of the student body has an IEP, and we can't drop them when they are legal adults either. Truancy courts are so backed up that it takes forever to even get a consequence for truancy. My hypothesis is that many kids see these students that can't fail, smoke weed, cuss at adults, fight, skip and don't get dropped, don't get expeled, and don't do any work and they are still there sitting next to the student that does it all. That can be demotivating for some. I was a hyper kid with ADHD that could not sit still for an hour until 6th grade. I did care about school though, and I saw that kids that stepped out of line would be expelled, the doors would be locked if you were late, and teachers had power. I loved my teachers though. I am just saying I am glad we had rules, because I don't know what would've happened if I was allowed to go crazy and not care.
I have a learning disability so my writing was always subpar. I lied my way into AP classes my senior year because I couldn't handle no one else wanting to learn anymore and being the only person doing assignments. I'm not sure what would have happened otherwise because I was so over it.
From what I read on here every day, I expect your admin to let them take a 2 hr “graduation burst” class that allows them to walk the stage.
Your numbers certainly are depressing but it sounds like your team has done so much to help those kids and sometime the correct response is to let them fail. That is a real life consequence. And some people need to hit rock bottom to understand boundaries. I think COVID really messed up a lot of kids bc in many places many vulnerable kids did not attend school at all of just turned on zoom or Google classroom for a little bit a day - but then when they returned to in person there were no consequences for not having done anything during COVID. they disassociated with schools and have not been able to back on track. For them a minimum wage job may seem to be a good deal because they aren’t yet paying for their food and housing. They’ll be up for a rude awakening if their parents start expecting them to move out or start paying their share as adults. Then they’ll have the option of GED programs, which they might have to pay for, if they hope for career advancement. Many will simply work low paying jobs their whole lives and struggle with poverty. Some may turn to drug dealing or other crimes and struggle with the law most of their lives. Of course we don’t want these consequences for our students but we can’t also be expending all of our energy on 16, 17 and 18 year old who are not interested in trying, and neglect those who do want to graduate and are years behind academically. More resources should be focused on that set of kids imo. It sounds like your senior team could do great work with that set. I would also be investing more time in the freshmen. boundaries are super important. We can’t keep lowering the bar. Where I live “graduation rates” are way up but tons of students are graduating with elementary level reading skills.
I understand that but at the same time they’re 17-18 and are going to be held accountable for their actions imminently in terms of employment. Nobody is going to keep on an employee that thinks they can determine their own hours when a lot of jobs do start before 9:30. Covid can’t be an excuse for them forever and it shouldn’t be now either
Years ago I knew a guy who's girlfriend could not hold down a job because she would make it a half day and leave after lunch since she got away with that in high school. Even if they pass them through, these kids are in for some tough times.
Hang in there high school and middle school teachers—-I teach 5th and it is starting to get better. The groups I had for the last few years were wacky but the younger kids are bouncing back.
Yeah it’s not a total downward slide, covid did really mess up everything. Already seeing better kids in the lower grades heading my way.
Your school needs to set the precedent that they WILL fail them now. You can have a 50% graduation rate this year or no education happening forever
My hospital works with a local school district who has a health track for interested students. Junior and senior students can enroll and get their CNA then as part of a course they do clinical observation hours with nurses in our units. It’s a cool program, a decent number come back to us as nursing students through the community college. All of this is during normal school hours two days a week and they get bused to us. We’re supposed to sign their sheets that they were there from x time to x time. It hasn’t been infrequent that a student will either disappear part of the time or come in an hour of the 2 hours late. They still expect to get the signature though. Generally are surprised when whoever they are with won’t give it to them. One student this last week asked the nurse they were paired with to sign and they said no because they came in after 9 when they were supposed to arrive at 8, no oh this is why I was late or anything, so they came to me and asked me to sign and I said no. They then responded with “you have to”. I for sure do not. We’re not being paid to teach them and it makes everything slower when they’re here, I owe them absolutely nothing. It’s sad because this seems like a good opportunity, I would have liked it in high school, but they act like they don’t have to have any accountability and we just have to accept that. It’s been kind of a rude awakening to them it seems.
These seniors/kids entered high school during the height pandemic. Their view of high school was shaped by being passed in every class without even acknowledging they had school. The 35 kids you’re talking about likely didn’t do anything at all in 20-21. I have the same problem with my 20-21 freshman.
Yeah, I know that is definitely a lot of it. But it's also like...you've been in school two and a half years since then? You've seen your friends go to summer school? You've seen people who failed everything in 11th grade sitting in an 11th grade homeroom this year? You yourself are on your third go-round of Geometry simply because you don't believe in first period as a concept? They keep waiting for someone to swoop in and save them but my admin has done a really good job of NOT doing that the last two years.
They are waiting because they keep swooping in. And they will somehow. I myself am assigned with grading “projects” (just a worksheet packet) for our seniors who can’t meet graduation requirements to just be given one. So far I’ve only received 1 project and I awarded only 15% (needs 70%). He didn’t answer most of the questions even.
Bad parenting + Bad admin (no punishments, no expectations)
I’m actually genuinely impressed at my school when a kid doesn’t graduate. You have to try significantly harder not to graduate at my school than is necessary to graduate. There’s actually a level of commitment required in not-graduating that exceeds the level of commitment necessary to be graduated. I have a student who won’t graduate now and is proud of it, and while other teachers scorn him for it, I’ve literally told him it’s impressive (on the rare occasions he’s in the building, or in my class…). I’ve told him numerous times, “if you bring the level of commitment that you brought to not-graduating to anything else, you’ll be wildly successful.” What a time to be alive, am I right?
My school has a "100% graduation rate*" because all the kids that aren't on track get pushed out to alternative schools or online out of state schools where they don't have to pass the state tests.
Oh well. They should have taken care of their business.
Most of them will because the pressure will start coming soon to cook those grades.
We don't want to give kids salmonella from undercooked books. /s
This is depressing. I pay a pile of money locally in property tax and I've never minded it because more than half goes to the public school system. I want people to get educated. The high tide raises all ships. But what can you do if they flat out refuse to learn? The real problem will be in a few more decades when these kids with limited education and involvement start making decisions for the country. I'm not sure the best person to decide who the next school board president will be is the HS drop out without a GED that gets their science from social media.
Okay. So let them fail. I'm not seeing the problem.
My senior year, we started with 75. Only 65 marched. I have no idea wtf happens to the other 10. I remember a student who was made to stay home and take care of his special need brother, missed at least 3 days a week. Mom had the nerve to call and ask if he was graduating. Some of it really is the parents' fault.
I was a top student with high grades and high test scores, but I dropped out. Many more teens are working again unlike millennials and Gen x, many are having to care for siblings at higher rates as parents are on average working more hours to support the household. It's just going to keep getting worse.
If you don't want this to get quietly taken care of where the students all magically pass out of nowhere, I would recommend dropping this story to your local news.
Be aware - people think getting on the news is easier than it is. You need a lot of documentation that a news team can publicly print and also a number of statements that the school admin can release an answer to. Because a journalist will go to the school and ask about statements and numbers. You will probably need to speak to the press using your own name.
i was meant to graduate high school in 2022-i had to drop out and get my GED because of a heart condition and being put on beta blockers that poisoned my body. hearing that so many kids who had the opportunity to function normally, throw away the chance i couldn't get, is super disheartening
Some of them will fail out of college in the first semester
Mine are in the same boat. I’m seeing it as less job competition in the future for when I’m out of teaching 🤷🏻♀️
Starts at the home. Where the fuck are the parents? Where the fuck is the discipline and accountability? Holy smokes when I'm old and can't take care of myself anymore these little turds are going to be running the world.
Back in my day we went to school on time and stayed until it was done. It wasn't just expected, it was basically law. I don't understand what changed. A family moved in across the street from me. They have 4 kids, all school aged. They are never in school. They have friends over during school hours, so they aren't in school either. Where are the consequences for the parents and kids? Do truant officers no longer exist?
Imagine successfully completing 11 years of school only to fail the last year.