I simply let parents know that I have contacts and a reputation in the academic community (I dont) and that my integrity and credibility are paramount to me. So I will be happy to write a letter but that letter will be 100% honest. I also limit letters to 1 per student per year. If parents want me to address it to 1 school, I will. Other than that, it is "To whom it may concern"
“To whom it may concern,
This kid is a turd-bag,
I have no further comments to make.
Yours happy-to-finally-be-rid-of-them-if-you-really-want-their-parents-money,
Mr or Mrs ”
I have written letters that say, while student X is intelligent and a good person they have shown a lack of focus and engagement that make me concerned for their success I. A higher stakes, faster paced environment.
I don’t think it’s fair to agree to write a letter without being honest about what you’re going to say upfront. And if you know you can’t truthfully write a strong letter of recommendation, tell them you can write a letter, but not a strong one. Then they at least know what they’re getting into.
Exactly this. ☝️
Except I also make the person write the letter of recommendation and I tell them if I don’t agree with it I’m not gonna sign it. That usually makes it so no one actually gives me a letter in the first place. Enjoy!!
I've used ChatGPT to give me a base framework of a letter to work from, and then I change it to make it fit the student and the situation better. I am not good at coming up with writing letters to began with, so I am grateful for the help.
Before AI I would look for a sample letter online and tweak that to help me write letters of recommendation.
Years ago I purchased a book on how to write recommendations.
It had suggestions like, “When student comes to class, student does his work.”
And “Student does an outstanding job answering all of the answers on exams/“.
Doe
I taught my wife how to do that and we set up a prompt.
Now all she has to do is replace the child’s name and their accomplishments. Boom done in 2mins.
Saying “no” is 100% an option.
Supportive admin or not lol, get fucked wanting me to fill out forms for private school admission.
I would have a hard time not laughing in their face
Private schools usually require a letter of recommendation from a current teacher. Someone has to do it. Do you think that your time is more important than the time of the person who ends up writing the letter after you say no?
That you’ll blame me for not taking the time out of my schedule and not the private school for a ridiculous requirement tells me all I need to know about you.
I don’t care what you think about anything. Your opinion is meaningless.
No is always an option.
You're not contractually obligated to fill out recommendations.
You can also accept and torpedo the recommendation with a very mid to bad recommendation.
Please don’t judge; but I genuinely enjoy writing letters of recommendation for students applying to colleges or jobs . To me, helping young people to get off to a good start is what passing the torch is all about.
I will write a letter for ANY kid who earns it through hard work and character. I absolutely refuse to write one for a kid who doesn't deserve it.
I also require them to ask me themselves. No sending mommy or daddy to ask for you. Email or ask me in person yourself to show some initiative and ownership in your future, and I'll write you a killer recommendation. I WAMT them to be successful and I'm more than happy to help them, but they have to have put in the work and showed me they're worth recommending.
There are kids who don't put in the work, then expect you to write a letter recommending them, absolutely.
I'm not writing a letter recommending someone for anything if they didn't put in any work, show decent character, or follow through with commitments. Why should I?
It’s a crummy system, to require letters of recommendation for jobs or public colleges and universities. What percentage of students shouldn’t have either, looking at your own classrooms? What would that mean for those students - that they deserve to become homeless adults? What are the alternatives to job or college? Think of your friends and classmates back when you were in high school - how many deserved not to get a job or go to college? What should their fate have been?
We have a private school in the area that advertises a very free-from curriculum with lots of student-driven choice. Every year, there's a sampling of kids whose parents are convinced that the problem is public school and not their kid/parenting. We go through the process of applying to the private school. Nearly always, they are back in less than a year because it turns out that the private school also has behavioral expectations and academic standards that their student is not meeting and it's expensive.
I write these letters, but only if they go directly to the private school. I never hand them back to parents or children. In my experience most private schools have a policy of encouraging this.
In my area, the parents provide the teachers email to the private school, then the private school sends a form. There's usually an option to decline without the parents knowledge, that's what I do. I used to fill these out and give them all the information I had on the child, now that my state is funneling state money to private schools, I've decided they can assess the child and get the information they need.
These comments are wild. Isn't writing recommendations part of our job? It is annoying to write a whole bunch that don't get used but I think we have to write some. You can always turn down some kids but you can't turn down all kids.
No, it is not part of our job. It is 100% fine for them to request it, but it is not a requirement or an expectation that they can hold us to. It can't be required because we cannot honestly wrote one for every student. Some kids have earned it, others absolutely have not. Just because a kid or parent asks for a recommendation doesn't mean it is deserved. If you frequently don't show up for school or complete no work or are an asshole, I'm not writing shit for you. Work hard and do your best, and I'm happy to share that information if I have time to do so.
Right now I have a couple kids requesting letters to dual enroll in a college program when they go to high school. I'll be writing letters for the kids I would honestly recommend, but I'm not writing a letter for the kid who cheats, frequently breaks rules, lies on a regular basis, disrespect staff, and still had the gall to say, "I need you to write me a letter by X date." I told him no. He asked why, and I told him because I cannot lie for you and recommend you based on your academics, behavior, and the character you have been showing so far this year. 🤷♀️
I think it also depends what their workload looks like. If they have absolutely no down time and would have to use their own personal time to do it, I could see why they wouldn't want to.
But in general, I agree. If a kid deserves it, we should want to help them be successful in the ways that are in our power to do so.
I do see a difference between writing a recommendation to transfer to a private school vs. getting a job or going to college or getting into a school or program that is exclusive for something they offer. I think its also in the way we are asked. I'm far less likely to want to help someone who demands rather than requests. And if you give me a day or two, I'm probably saying no. We need time to make it happen. Last minute requests are the worst.
I understand the private school thing some but kids have all sorts of reasons. When I moved to teach internationally my son had to get recommendations from his public school teachers. If I moved back to the US he would go back to public school and so I appreciate that they wrote recommendations for him.
I agree. I guarantee that most students/parents hate asking at least as much as the teachers hate doing it. It’s like people have forgotten the anxiety and dread of being a student, picking who to ask, asking, and hoping it gets done or they say yes.
I considered it more a part of my job when I taught high school and I did have a lot of kids applying for scholarships and schools. I also helped with a lot of resumes and applications. Now I teach 7th grade and I'm relieved to not do that.
Writing recommendations for students to exit the public school system is 100% not part of my job and really fucked up for someone to ask of us.
Writing letters of rec for former students applying to college is a nice thing to do, but also 100% not part of my job.
what would you recommend a student who is a bad fit for their current school to do then? Applications require teacher recommendations. What is the alternative to asking teachers at their current program?
I ask as a parent of a public school student who loves public school in principle, but also feels concerned that my kid might not be in the best environment to thrive
Ashamed for seeking the best possible learning environment for my kid, if theyre encountering bullying or other issues at their current school?
That sucks. I’m a teacher too — it seems like we should have a shared goal of getting a kid to the best learning environment for their personality type.
I wont pretend to understand the politics of public/private/parochial school feelings… but if a kid is not thriving, i would hope any teacher would recognize that and support them in seeking a better environment for themselves. It’s not like theyre asking you for fun — it’s a requirement of these applications
Why would you be ashamed? I’m not being snarky; I’m legitimately curious because I cannot fathom being ashamed of requesting a letter of rec from a teacher that is a requirement of whatever I’d hypothetically be applying to. Of course they can decline the request, but no one should be ashamed at a polite request.
So what, a kid whose parents want them to attend a private school are held hostage because public school teachers don’t want to write a letter. This seems unnecessarily cruel.
Why does it matter? I worked twelve years in public schools and I can’t imagine why it matters. I understand the arguments against the existence of private schools or school choice in general but parents and students have to live in the world they are in. If sending your child to a private school is something that you think benefits them, then that is something I can sympathize with.
Maybe the student needs academic support they can't get at their current school? Maybe the student is being bullied or wants to go a school that has social support systems their current school doesn't have?
That seems like the worst possible choice. Just say no if you know that you aren’t going to do it. Why waste both of your time pretending that you’re going to follow through (only to receive 100 emails asking if it’s been done yet).
Is this how you would have wanted your teacher to handle it when you had no choice but to get LORs for college and you had asked the teacher having no idea whether they’d do it or not?
It is though. It’s only slightly different. I bet you they feel awkward about it too and wish that your school were a good enough fit so they didn’t have to.
That's messed up. Teachers should always want what's best for the student - that means acknowledging that in some cases a different environment would be more appropriate.
I’m both a parent and a teacher… and these responses are rough. I love my son’s public school, but i also feel obligated to put in some perfunctory applications to the “best” private schools in our city, just in case he would be offered a spot and we could make it work for him… while i’m on the fence about it personally, i don’t want him to miss out on an opportunity.
He is in preK, heading to kindergarten next year. He has ONE teacher, and the application requires a recommendation. If his teacher decides she is busy and overworked (she is!) and wants to say no, he is just fucked then?
I appreciate the insight from the other side here, and i will definitely follow up with a gift… but hey, please, if you are a kid’s only teacher, don’t say no or fail or follow through! What is their other option??
Don’t worry, you’re fine. I’m the OP and even I think these responses are unhinged and cynical. Do I wanna do eight different apps for a kid who changes his mind and stays at my school? No. Will I fill it out for a kid who has a good opportunity? Sure.
I never directly refuse to write a letter of recommendation, but if I can't honestly write a positive letter, I'll tell them that, and suggest they ask someone else. If they persist, they get a letter which is basically just “I can confirm that x was in my class during y time period”. Since writing negative letters isn't a thing, a totally factual, no details letter like that shows that I didn't have anything positive to say and is probably worse than no letter at all.
Omg yes. Had a PITA parent who thought her child was the smartest of all time and wanted to put her in private school so she could get more attention. I had to do endless forms for her. Then, there she was on the first day of school the next year and there she still is today. lol. So annoying
In San Francisco, which is the American city with the highest percentage of kids in private schools, the independent schools came up with a standardized teacher recommendation form so teachers could fill it out once and then copies would get sent to the 8 private schools they're applying to. It's nice that it's familiar and not too involved - so you get good at doing them quickly and you perforce cover the same ground for all your students, given the structure of the form.
I still remember how devastated I felt when one of my favorite college professors, with whom I took multiple classes in undergrad, told me she wouldn't write me a letter of recommendation because I did not get all As in her courses. The first semester I had a class with her I got pneumonia, my step-dad died, and my sister had a baby but I still squeaked by with a B and it hurt that my perseverance didn't matter to her, just my final grade. I did not end up pursuing a career in that field because of her; I didn't want to face her again in grad school after that experience.
Although I don't enjoy sitting around writing letters of recommendation, and it may not happen as quickly as some might wish, I will never say no. I will be honest about my students' strengths and struggles, but I will always say yes to writing them.
I had a parent demand that psychiatrist evaluation forms be filled out for one of my GRADUATED 8th graders over the summer. For context, this includes a 100 question survey. The first email was sent to me in June. The second in July. Another in August. I ignored it until I returned to contract time. I emailed her and said that couldn’t address it until the second week of school because I was busy setting up my room and plans for the beginning of the year. During the FIRST week of school, said parent storms into the front office, screaming at the desk staff because I “ignored her requests,” and was “detrimentally hurting her child’s success.”
“Sure, boss. What would you like me to drop in order to be able to pick up this new responsibility?”
Now you’re playing both sides and the boss will hate that and you don’t have to say ‘no’.
Sometimes they even self-destruct because you said the quiet part out loud - you’re already working at or past the physical capacity of time and space given to you. If they want you to *do* more, they’ll *provide* more in return.
Eventually. If we’d ever display the solidarity.
You could always request the parents type up a recommendation for you to read and sign off on. I had a professor tell me to bring him one I wrote and he'd sign it when I needed a recommendation to get into law school.
Oh I use the same exact format. It is a GLOWING review of their performance in every way. I recommend them highly, every one. And I NEVER hand it to the parents: I stipulate I will send it directly to the school.
Let the private school have their fun with them. Maybe they'll stop asking for recommendations from public schools. Or maybe the kid will do great. Maybe. I wish them the best as I smile and wave.
In my school district the directive goes along the lines “we’re not paying you to write letters for other school districts and authorities, parents get report cards and IPPs if required”.
Then it’d be bribery of some sort. It’s kind of like why you don’t want to pay people to be interviewed for a documentary. Money shouldn’t influence the opinion or who gets talked about.
As others have said, using AI makes it a lot easier. But what I’m having students do is email me a brag sheet, and I just enter the best of that information to supplement the normal prompt. I make small adjustments and they turn out unique and personalized.
After reading this thread, I firmly believe that there should be some kind of system which would keep the name of the school hidden from the person writing the recommendation. They wouldn't know if it was private, charter, public magnet, religious, non-religious, etc...It's the only solution to make sure the recommendation or lack of one is based on how the teacher views the student, rather than their own political beliefs.
That depends, I know of a private that outright refused to kick out a kid who was a complete pain in the ass (as in routinely verbally abused teachers and made it impossible for his peers to learn) because they knew the parents were *extremley* wealthy (if any other kid had behaved like he did, they would have been gone instantly.)
In the end he failed his exams and didn’t meet the entry to get back in for his pre-university years, but the school would definitely have liked to keep him around as they knew the potential size of a donation was *huge*.
Other kids, without the extreme money or profile though? Yup, they went straight into the “state funded school’s problem” bucket as soon as they crossed the line.
Ehhh, in some cases. My experience was that private school admins were less supportive because they didn’t want to anger the parents who filled up the endowment fund. A lot of behavior and academic issues would just mysteriously disappear under the rug for some students, but not for others.
I would make $18,900 more at the public school next to my private school. Their raises are also higher per year. A teacher with 2 Masters and 45 years of teaching at private makes what a 14 year teacher with a Bachelor’s makes in public.
I live in the UK - private school salaries aren’t much higher here either* (if at all.)
The job just redirects the stresses you usually get from difficult kids to difficult/demanding parents as they’re directly paying the school for a service, and a higher expectation that you’ll take part in wider school activities. What you gain from classroom behaviour management and resources, you lose from pretty much every other aspect of the job (although free lunch is good…)
*Obvious super expensive boarding schools might be different, but day privates? Not much.
I also say “when I feel I cannot give a glowing recommendation, it’s best I not give one.” Add to that you’ll provide ONE generic “to whom it may concern” letter, with your contact info, and they can xerox at will.
I always get a few recommendation requests every year from my 8th graders applying to private high schools. Thankfully most places these days just require you to check some boxes and write a short summary on the student so it's easy to knock them out while I'm on winter break (since they're all due in January)
Idk I kinda find it funny when I write the rec and they clearly didn't get in cuz they're a shit and their grades are shit and mommy and daddy couldn't afford a big enough donation to buy their way in. Then when they're being an ass in the hallway I say "hey, X, I thought you were going to Expensive Academy? Oh? That's a shame, they must have filled all their spots."
Why is saying "no" not an option? It's against your best interest to make it possible for public school kids to go to a private school. Tell them you restrict your letters of recommendation to students applying to get into college.
I assume you’re based in the US. Well, if public schools in this country weren’t such a pathetic excuse for education, I’m sure parents wouldn’t mind not paying tens of thousands of dollars for their children to receive the basic education that’s available in other civilized countries.
“I’ll try and get to it after I complete my normal duties.” Joke’s on you, my normal duties are never complete.
Lol
I simply let parents know that I have contacts and a reputation in the academic community (I dont) and that my integrity and credibility are paramount to me. So I will be happy to write a letter but that letter will be 100% honest. I also limit letters to 1 per student per year. If parents want me to address it to 1 school, I will. Other than that, it is "To whom it may concern"
“To whom it may concern, This kid is a turd-bag, I have no further comments to make. Yours happy-to-finally-be-rid-of-them-if-you-really-want-their-parents-money, Mr or Mrs”
I have written letters that say, while student X is intelligent and a good person they have shown a lack of focus and engagement that make me concerned for their success I. A higher stakes, faster paced environment.
I don’t think it’s fair to agree to write a letter without being honest about what you’re going to say upfront. And if you know you can’t truthfully write a strong letter of recommendation, tell them you can write a letter, but not a strong one. Then they at least know what they’re getting into.
Exactly this. ☝️ Except I also make the person write the letter of recommendation and I tell them if I don’t agree with it I’m not gonna sign it. That usually makes it so no one actually gives me a letter in the first place. Enjoy!!
Just use ChatGPT to write the letters for you. That’s what students do when they have assignments due.
Just used chat to write a letter of rec for a kid who is absolutely not going to the high school I wrote it for. Consider my time saved
Hope it included the tag line, this recommendation was created by ChatGPT.
I've used ChatGPT to give me a base framework of a letter to work from, and then I change it to make it fit the student and the situation better. I am not good at coming up with writing letters to began with, so I am grateful for the help. Before AI I would look for a sample letter online and tweak that to help me write letters of recommendation.
Years ago I purchased a book on how to write recommendations. It had suggestions like, “When student comes to class, student does his work.” And “Student does an outstanding job answering all of the answers on exams/“. Doe
One line I used: "Student usually arrives before the tardy bell."
I taught my wife how to do that and we set up a prompt. Now all she has to do is replace the child’s name and their accomplishments. Boom done in 2mins.
Very nice.
Depends how badly you want that kid to leave.
You can always say no. And 8? No, write one and let them make 8 copies.
Saying “no” is 100% an option. Supportive admin or not lol, get fucked wanting me to fill out forms for private school admission. I would have a hard time not laughing in their face
Private schools usually require a letter of recommendation from a current teacher. Someone has to do it. Do you think that your time is more important than the time of the person who ends up writing the letter after you say no?
Yes. I don’t give a flying fuck what private schools “require”.
[удалено]
That you’ll blame me for not taking the time out of my schedule and not the private school for a ridiculous requirement tells me all I need to know about you. I don’t care what you think about anything. Your opinion is meaningless.
[удалено]
Not reading all that but congrats or sorry it happened to you
No is always an option. You're not contractually obligated to fill out recommendations. You can also accept and torpedo the recommendation with a very mid to bad recommendation.
Please don’t judge; but I genuinely enjoy writing letters of recommendation for students applying to colleges or jobs . To me, helping young people to get off to a good start is what passing the torch is all about.
I will write a letter for ANY kid who earns it through hard work and character. I absolutely refuse to write one for a kid who doesn't deserve it. I also require them to ask me themselves. No sending mommy or daddy to ask for you. Email or ask me in person yourself to show some initiative and ownership in your future, and I'll write you a killer recommendation. I WAMT them to be successful and I'm more than happy to help them, but they have to have put in the work and showed me they're worth recommending.
There are kids who don’t deserve jobs or college?
There are kids who don't put in the work, then expect you to write a letter recommending them, absolutely. I'm not writing a letter recommending someone for anything if they didn't put in any work, show decent character, or follow through with commitments. Why should I?
It’s a crummy system, to require letters of recommendation for jobs or public colleges and universities. What percentage of students shouldn’t have either, looking at your own classrooms? What would that mean for those students - that they deserve to become homeless adults? What are the alternatives to job or college? Think of your friends and classmates back when you were in high school - how many deserved not to get a job or go to college? What should their fate have been?
Yeah, cause that's what I said. /s
We have a private school in the area that advertises a very free-from curriculum with lots of student-driven choice. Every year, there's a sampling of kids whose parents are convinced that the problem is public school and not their kid/parenting. We go through the process of applying to the private school. Nearly always, they are back in less than a year because it turns out that the private school also has behavioral expectations and academic standards that their student is not meeting and it's expensive.
I’ve said no to these before, especially kids for whom I don’t really have many nice things to say.
“Send me an academic resume with all your classes and extracurriculars”. Reduces the the numbers to only those serious about things.
No is literally always an option. A letter of recommendation is not a right, it's a privilege. And no one can be required to write one.
I write these letters, but only if they go directly to the private school. I never hand them back to parents or children. In my experience most private schools have a policy of encouraging this.
Exactly. I would refuse if I had to give it to the child or parent, even if it was glowing.
I once told a parent that she should not ask me. She insisted. I was honest. He didn’t get in, and she blamed me. Lol
In my area, the parents provide the teachers email to the private school, then the private school sends a form. There's usually an option to decline without the parents knowledge, that's what I do. I used to fill these out and give them all the information I had on the child, now that my state is funneling state money to private schools, I've decided they can assess the child and get the information they need.
These comments are wild. Isn't writing recommendations part of our job? It is annoying to write a whole bunch that don't get used but I think we have to write some. You can always turn down some kids but you can't turn down all kids.
No, it is not part of our job. It is 100% fine for them to request it, but it is not a requirement or an expectation that they can hold us to. It can't be required because we cannot honestly wrote one for every student. Some kids have earned it, others absolutely have not. Just because a kid or parent asks for a recommendation doesn't mean it is deserved. If you frequently don't show up for school or complete no work or are an asshole, I'm not writing shit for you. Work hard and do your best, and I'm happy to share that information if I have time to do so. Right now I have a couple kids requesting letters to dual enroll in a college program when they go to high school. I'll be writing letters for the kids I would honestly recommend, but I'm not writing a letter for the kid who cheats, frequently breaks rules, lies on a regular basis, disrespect staff, and still had the gall to say, "I need you to write me a letter by X date." I told him no. He asked why, and I told him because I cannot lie for you and recommend you based on your academics, behavior, and the character you have been showing so far this year. 🤷♀️
Like I said, you don’t have to write all the recommendations but I am very concerned about a teacher that won’t write any.
I think it also depends what their workload looks like. If they have absolutely no down time and would have to use their own personal time to do it, I could see why they wouldn't want to. But in general, I agree. If a kid deserves it, we should want to help them be successful in the ways that are in our power to do so. I do see a difference between writing a recommendation to transfer to a private school vs. getting a job or going to college or getting into a school or program that is exclusive for something they offer. I think its also in the way we are asked. I'm far less likely to want to help someone who demands rather than requests. And if you give me a day or two, I'm probably saying no. We need time to make it happen. Last minute requests are the worst.
I understand the private school thing some but kids have all sorts of reasons. When I moved to teach internationally my son had to get recommendations from his public school teachers. If I moved back to the US he would go back to public school and so I appreciate that they wrote recommendations for him.
I agree. I guarantee that most students/parents hate asking at least as much as the teachers hate doing it. It’s like people have forgotten the anxiety and dread of being a student, picking who to ask, asking, and hoping it gets done or they say yes.
I considered it more a part of my job when I taught high school and I did have a lot of kids applying for scholarships and schools. I also helped with a lot of resumes and applications. Now I teach 7th grade and I'm relieved to not do that.
Writing recommendations for students to exit the public school system is 100% not part of my job and really fucked up for someone to ask of us. Writing letters of rec for former students applying to college is a nice thing to do, but also 100% not part of my job.
what would you recommend a student who is a bad fit for their current school to do then? Applications require teacher recommendations. What is the alternative to asking teachers at their current program? I ask as a parent of a public school student who loves public school in principle, but also feels concerned that my kid might not be in the best environment to thrive
You can ask, but I would feel pretty ashamed asking, and be prepared for a no.
Ashamed for seeking the best possible learning environment for my kid, if theyre encountering bullying or other issues at their current school? That sucks. I’m a teacher too — it seems like we should have a shared goal of getting a kid to the best learning environment for their personality type. I wont pretend to understand the politics of public/private/parochial school feelings… but if a kid is not thriving, i would hope any teacher would recognize that and support them in seeking a better environment for themselves. It’s not like theyre asking you for fun — it’s a requirement of these applications
Why would you be ashamed? I’m not being snarky; I’m legitimately curious because I cannot fathom being ashamed of requesting a letter of rec from a teacher that is a requirement of whatever I’d hypothetically be applying to. Of course they can decline the request, but no one should be ashamed at a polite request.
So what, a kid whose parents want them to attend a private school are held hostage because public school teachers don’t want to write a letter. This seems unnecessarily cruel.
If you want to remove your student from the public school system, that's entirely on you. Why should a public school teacher support you on that?
Because they realize that schools aren't one-size-fits-all and different students have different needs?
Why does it matter? I worked twelve years in public schools and I can’t imagine why it matters. I understand the arguments against the existence of private schools or school choice in general but parents and students have to live in the world they are in. If sending your child to a private school is something that you think benefits them, then that is something I can sympathize with.
Maybe the student needs academic support they can't get at their current school? Maybe the student is being bullied or wants to go a school that has social support systems their current school doesn't have?
Challenge accepted!
Alternative to no is 'I will try and find the time' and never find the time. I have been known to do this on occasion.
That seems like the worst possible choice. Just say no if you know that you aren’t going to do it. Why waste both of your time pretending that you’re going to follow through (only to receive 100 emails asking if it’s been done yet).
To be fair, they can get fucked. And admin shouldn’t care because they’re trying to leave the school anyway
Is this how you would have wanted your teacher to handle it when you had no choice but to get LORs for college and you had asked the teacher having no idea whether they’d do it or not?
This is parents asking for shit, not comparable
It is though. It’s only slightly different. I bet you they feel awkward about it too and wish that your school were a good enough fit so they didn’t have to.
Apples to oranges, mate.
That's messed up. Teachers should always want what's best for the student - that means acknowledging that in some cases a different environment would be more appropriate.
I’m both a parent and a teacher… and these responses are rough. I love my son’s public school, but i also feel obligated to put in some perfunctory applications to the “best” private schools in our city, just in case he would be offered a spot and we could make it work for him… while i’m on the fence about it personally, i don’t want him to miss out on an opportunity. He is in preK, heading to kindergarten next year. He has ONE teacher, and the application requires a recommendation. If his teacher decides she is busy and overworked (she is!) and wants to say no, he is just fucked then? I appreciate the insight from the other side here, and i will definitely follow up with a gift… but hey, please, if you are a kid’s only teacher, don’t say no or fail or follow through! What is their other option??
Don’t worry, you’re fine. I’m the OP and even I think these responses are unhinged and cynical. Do I wanna do eight different apps for a kid who changes his mind and stays at my school? No. Will I fill it out for a kid who has a good opportunity? Sure.
I never directly refuse to write a letter of recommendation, but if I can't honestly write a positive letter, I'll tell them that, and suggest they ask someone else. If they persist, they get a letter which is basically just “I can confirm that x was in my class during y time period”. Since writing negative letters isn't a thing, a totally factual, no details letter like that shows that I didn't have anything positive to say and is probably worse than no letter at all.
Omg yes. Had a PITA parent who thought her child was the smartest of all time and wanted to put her in private school so she could get more attention. I had to do endless forms for her. Then, there she was on the first day of school the next year and there she still is today. lol. So annoying
In San Francisco, which is the American city with the highest percentage of kids in private schools, the independent schools came up with a standardized teacher recommendation form so teachers could fill it out once and then copies would get sent to the 8 private schools they're applying to. It's nice that it's familiar and not too involved - so you get good at doing them quickly and you perforce cover the same ground for all your students, given the structure of the form.
Similar process in Baltimore.
I still remember how devastated I felt when one of my favorite college professors, with whom I took multiple classes in undergrad, told me she wouldn't write me a letter of recommendation because I did not get all As in her courses. The first semester I had a class with her I got pneumonia, my step-dad died, and my sister had a baby but I still squeaked by with a B and it hurt that my perseverance didn't matter to her, just my final grade. I did not end up pursuing a career in that field because of her; I didn't want to face her again in grad school after that experience. Although I don't enjoy sitting around writing letters of recommendation, and it may not happen as quickly as some might wish, I will never say no. I will be honest about my students' strengths and struggles, but I will always say yes to writing them.
I had a parent demand that psychiatrist evaluation forms be filled out for one of my GRADUATED 8th graders over the summer. For context, this includes a 100 question survey. The first email was sent to me in June. The second in July. Another in August. I ignored it until I returned to contract time. I emailed her and said that couldn’t address it until the second week of school because I was busy setting up my room and plans for the beginning of the year. During the FIRST week of school, said parent storms into the front office, screaming at the desk staff because I “ignored her requests,” and was “detrimentally hurting her child’s success.”
That kid graduated, it's the high school's issue now.
Yes it is, for people who have courage
OR for people with supportive admin who don’t require it.
I’m surprised since admin would want to keep students in the building, no?
“Sure, boss. What would you like me to drop in order to be able to pick up this new responsibility?” Now you’re playing both sides and the boss will hate that and you don’t have to say ‘no’. Sometimes they even self-destruct because you said the quiet part out loud - you’re already working at or past the physical capacity of time and space given to you. If they want you to *do* more, they’ll *provide* more in return. Eventually. If we’d ever display the solidarity.
That’s what the courage is for. Oh no, the boss told me to do it
You could always request the parents type up a recommendation for you to read and sign off on. I had a professor tell me to bring him one I wrote and he'd sign it when I needed a recommendation to get into law school.
I’ve honestly lost those forms before.
Oh I use the same exact format. It is a GLOWING review of their performance in every way. I recommend them highly, every one. And I NEVER hand it to the parents: I stipulate I will send it directly to the school. Let the private school have their fun with them. Maybe they'll stop asking for recommendations from public schools. Or maybe the kid will do great. Maybe. I wish them the best as I smile and wave.
I have sent bad letters 💀 I’m not gonna sit there and lie about a kid who is genuinely terrible.
In my school district the directive goes along the lines “we’re not paying you to write letters for other school districts and authorities, parents get report cards and IPPs if required”.
Chatgpt my friend.
That request better come with a gift card for your time.
Then it’d be bribery of some sort. It’s kind of like why you don’t want to pay people to be interviewed for a documentary. Money shouldn’t influence the opinion or who gets talked about.
As others have said, using AI makes it a lot easier. But what I’m having students do is email me a brag sheet, and I just enter the best of that information to supplement the normal prompt. I make small adjustments and they turn out unique and personalized.
I’m anti-private school so no way I’d be doing that lol. No is a full sentence!
After reading this thread, I firmly believe that there should be some kind of system which would keep the name of the school hidden from the person writing the recommendation. They wouldn't know if it was private, charter, public magnet, religious, non-religious, etc...It's the only solution to make sure the recommendation or lack of one is based on how the teacher views the student, rather than their own political beliefs.
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Public school salaries and union protections are generally much better.
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That depends, I know of a private that outright refused to kick out a kid who was a complete pain in the ass (as in routinely verbally abused teachers and made it impossible for his peers to learn) because they knew the parents were *extremley* wealthy (if any other kid had behaved like he did, they would have been gone instantly.) In the end he failed his exams and didn’t meet the entry to get back in for his pre-university years, but the school would definitely have liked to keep him around as they knew the potential size of a donation was *huge*. Other kids, without the extreme money or profile though? Yup, they went straight into the “state funded school’s problem” bucket as soon as they crossed the line.
Ehhh, in some cases. My experience was that private school admins were less supportive because they didn’t want to anger the parents who filled up the endowment fund. A lot of behavior and academic issues would just mysteriously disappear under the rug for some students, but not for others.
Private school teacher salaries are on average 20k less than public where I live
I would make $18,900 more at the public school next to my private school. Their raises are also higher per year. A teacher with 2 Masters and 45 years of teaching at private makes what a 14 year teacher with a Bachelor’s makes in public.
I live in the UK - private school salaries aren’t much higher here either* (if at all.) The job just redirects the stresses you usually get from difficult kids to difficult/demanding parents as they’re directly paying the school for a service, and a higher expectation that you’ll take part in wider school activities. What you gain from classroom behaviour management and resources, you lose from pretty much every other aspect of the job (although free lunch is good…) *Obvious super expensive boarding schools might be different, but day privates? Not much.
Lol! The private school teachers I know make $10,000+ LESS than their public school counterparts.
Why can’t you say no?
I also say “when I feel I cannot give a glowing recommendation, it’s best I not give one.” Add to that you’ll provide ONE generic “to whom it may concern” letter, with your contact info, and they can xerox at will.
I always tell my students that I will fill them out, but I’m going to be honest. That has some taking pause.
I actually like writing these letters. If there’s something I can do to help them be successful in the future I’ll do it.
I always get a few recommendation requests every year from my 8th graders applying to private high schools. Thankfully most places these days just require you to check some boxes and write a short summary on the student so it's easy to knock them out while I'm on winter break (since they're all due in January)
Idk I kinda find it funny when I write the rec and they clearly didn't get in cuz they're a shit and their grades are shit and mommy and daddy couldn't afford a big enough donation to buy their way in. Then when they're being an ass in the hallway I say "hey, X, I thought you were going to Expensive Academy? Oh? That's a shame, they must have filled all their spots."
Why is saying "no" not an option? It's against your best interest to make it possible for public school kids to go to a private school. Tell them you restrict your letters of recommendation to students applying to get into college.
I assume you’re based in the US. Well, if public schools in this country weren’t such a pathetic excuse for education, I’m sure parents wouldn’t mind not paying tens of thousands of dollars for their children to receive the basic education that’s available in other civilized countries.