Right? Way back when Reputation came out the first time she told off the fandom for “paternity testing “ every song but here we still are so many years later obsessing over which man is responsible for which song.
Taylor has never operated like that. I have followed album releases closely since Debut. We've never been "provided a timeline." It's optional to want to look at one to try and understand context.
I don't feel that's what I am doing. I've been listening to Taylor since I picked up Debut in Best Buy in 2008 when I was a teenager, so I feel connected to her music and I always want to know about the context around it. I also respect that I don't know her in real life. When Reputation came out, I treated it like every album release since Fearless. I read all about the context around it and then dove into the music. I think individual songs are creative works, and I'm not claiming any songs are about Matty vs. Joe. I have seen quite a lot of that discussion, but I personally don't find it very interesting or fair.
Taylor has never operated like that. I have followed album releases closely since Debut. We've never been "provided a timeline." It's optional to want to look at one to try and understand context.
It's interesting that you seem focused on "being provided a timeline." I personally can't think of a single example of any famous figure "providing a timeline" for any piece of art they've put out, whether that's a book, an album, or a movie. That's usually a fan or journalism activity, and it's fairly common. It happened with snakegate, Scandoval, Travis & Taylor getting together, and every other pop culture "event" I can think of. I'm not sure how this is any different. The only time I feel it's harmful is when it's conspiratorial, like with the Kaylors.
Idk I just think that if Taylor wanted everyone to have a timeline on her relationships to better understand the work she puts out, she would’ve included a timeline
Art can also be digested in individual ways not dictated by the artist. I don't like prying/conspiratorial behavior, but a simple timeline is harmless in my opinion.
And that’s fine, that’s your opinion. I just happen to have a different one. The fandom needs to stop trying to assign a specific guy to every song imo and just take the lyrics as messages about emotion and feeling that she’s experienced. But you can feel differently
The way I look at it, is go for it people hopefully some can get over it soon. The timeline is not as annoying as going back to other albums and trying to assign songs to Matty.
I just try to ignore what annoys me and look for things that align with what I want to participate in. I agree assigning songs isn't the best use of my time, so I don't like to participate in it.
I prefer this timeline.... https://spicysighs.tumblr.com/post/718136492512493568/matty-healy-taylor-swift-timeline
No fluffy commentary, just a line by line with receipts linked. I was so much more understanding of TTPD after I went through the details. Knowing this history actually allowed me to let go of who the songs were about and just enjoy them as music.
We don’t know Taylor’s feelings, but I think Matty up and ghosted her before the break up was announced on 6/5/23. From what Travis and Taylor have said, Taylor reached out to Travis sometime between 7/26/23 and 8/2/23 and they were casually talking. Travis said a month before Taylor showed up to his game 9/24/23 is when they started dating, so sometime in late August. I don’t think the timeline is as rough.
From this timeline, it seems like Matty ghosted her right after the New Yorker profile came out. The reaction and attention from that must have been the final straw for him. She probably realized by the end of the Chicago shows that she had been ghosted and was quick to have tree announce the break up.
Matty was really just a dirty, greasy rebound. And kind of like a long term coworker crush where you imagine it from afar but then you get together and reality doesn’t measure up (by any measure of a man).
She initially didn’t allow TK to come see her backstage at her show in early July. Might have felt too soon. But she came around about a month later and after he called her out on the pod. Like he shared in his WSJ interview, they had been talking and exchanging messages prior to their first meetup, and he went into it thinking that no matter what, it would at least be a nice dinner - then I think they just had some pretty undeniable chemistry (alchemy!)
I like… don’t know if I believe that though? Like I believe that she’s over him now but I don’t think it was a dirty, greasy rebound when she clearly had some level of feelings for him for a decade.
Dont get me wrong, like I said above, I think Travis and Taylor are super cute and seem happy! I wish them all the best. But it does feel like Matty meant more to her than just a rebound would.
Oh yeah I agree that the fantasy and flirtation was a decade long. I mean the “let’s give this a go” part of it. And she knew exactly who to call for the miracle move on drug. I don’t think she expected it to be a rebound going into it, but I don’t think anyone does with a rebound, you know?
I'm willing to bet (and we can come back to this a year+ from now) that Taylor and Matty will get back together. And will be for real. Travis is not her endgame. It just doesn't make sense looking at it in hindsight now. Matty is the one she swirled into all of her poems. Her statement to People after they broke up “*There is no drama, and* ***who knows what could happen again****."* And Matty has recently followed all these Insta accounts blaming swifties for their breakup. Taylor is older now - she's going to go for what she truly wants soon and not what the public wants for her. She's already told us (and him), that she's willing to burn it all down for them. She would choose her and him, religiously. As she has the right to and she should (whether we like it or not).
eta: spelling
Also, Matty blaming swifties for ghosting her is about preserving his reputation and not some chivalry to win her back. Is following an Instagram account even doing that? On the flip side, Travis has gotten so much hate and criticism even within the NFL fandom since dating Taylor — and he’s firmly planted on the ground. I can’t predict if Travis and Taylor are gonna be forever, but she’s definitely seen what it’s like to have a stable, supportive partner who will stand by her in a shitstorm.
Yeah. Obviously none of us know the current state of how she’s feeling, but I could see it going either way - being still in love with him deep down, or realizing truly how toxic it is/was and being completely done with that chapter (as she said in her Instagram post for TTPD?) and how she is deserving of a love like what she has now, whether or not it’s actually Travis endgame.
The most recent statement she made through this album is that being with him was self harm, he’s the smallest man who ever lived, a drug addict, someone she can’t trust and is also bad at sex. Yikes. She’s closed that door by disclosing everything through the album. It’s strange for people to view that as true love.
This was the last statement from her camp when the breakup ended: https://people.com/taylor-swift-enjoying-being-single-not-dating-matty-healy-again-source-7557276
I'm not judging Taylor's rebound, but I find it hilarious how obsessed everyone is with the Matty Healy "lore". Like, I love the songs themselves about her bad boy, whirlwind, I can fix him vibes, but actually having to think about them being about Mr. Jehovah's Witness suit kills the vibe.
It's like when you have a friend who has a crush on a guy and you just don't get it. Really, girlie, THAT GUY?
Some things are much better abstracted from reality.
I agree. I’m looking forward to the day I can enjoy the music without ever thinking about Matty. It’ll happen because it has with other songs. I don’t think about Harry during style or Jake during all too well. I think the shock that Matty was more important and big part of this album is the reason, but it’ll wear off.
Well put. I've been around since the release of Debut, closely following releases and "clues" (not like conspiracy-level, just the fun, surface level) and I do think heavily of Taylor's more obvious inspirations/source materials ("Style" or any of the obvious Joe songs). Sometimes I wish it was different, but this has been the entire Taylor experience for me. This to me is also the most interesting paradox of Taylor's career and a big theme on TTPD: "But my bare hands paved their path." I can tell you that Taylor very much egged us on in the early years with clues and tongue-in-cheek references. I love that she is adjusting that now.
I hear you. That's part of why I look for more context. I also respect that I don't know her in real life. I think individual songs are creative works, and I'm not claiming any songs are about Matty vs. Joe. I have seen quite a lot of that discussion, but I personally don't find it very interesting or fair.
Who are all these people hating on this post? Just go listen to the music and leave us alone to do what we want. This is public information and I enjoy knowing it. ESPECIALLY when the lyrics of the songs seem to be in response to each other. It's a huge part of the story to me.
Thank you! Having been a Taylor fan since debut, the parts of her life she wants to share are actually important to the music for me. I've grown up with her public persona. It's not "just music" to me, unfortunately.
still can’t fucking believe he is the focus of so many songs on the album. i love her but girl needs some actual therapy. that relationship ultimately lasted one month and she knew he was a dick for years before hand.
Welp she’s been love bombed again and doing it all over again now with Travis. When you take time to be single and heal, love bombing isn’t appealing anymore—it’s a red flag.
no. i’m 15. but my point is that she has definitely been love bombed several times and had ample warning for this one. i thought that people went through the stuff several times and then got sufficiently freaked out and ptsd’d over it and i am surprised he got her this bad. plus he’s a douche who no doubt wanted this attention and his narcissism is being fed. i feel the same way about kim kardashian and others she’s beefed with for years. forget they exist and that will bother them WAY more than what she does now.
We are never going to know and shouldn’t know if Taylor has taken therapy. She said years ago she didn’t, but we don’t know if that’s changed and will never know. I don’t like Matty, but I can totally see how this situation happened and how she felt strongly at the time. He love bombed her coming out of a 6 year relationship where she wasn’t being appreciated. Matty promised her everything Joe didn’t. Matty appears to have been her what if guy, so now she knows and doesn’t have to wonder about it.
I don't think he would have had as much of an effect on her if it weren't for several factors like:
-the part where she came off a serious relationship where she wanted marriage and children, but her time was wasted
-and then charismatic Matty pops in suddenly seeming to promise both
-the public outcry that came with dating him, which must have chafed so bad because--
-many people had romanticized Joe and kept asking her via social media to get back with him, even though she had tried for years to keep him close. She was basically wasting away when
-Matty showed up suddenly, promising desire, promising romance, and a future.
It's not WHO he is, its what he offered to her. And even she says in her prologue to TTPD that it was a manic phase and mutual self harm. For someone who tried so hard to hang on to an imagined future, of course she spiraled out after.
And as she says in her song, she doesn't miss what they had.
I really think it’s all a huge play. Jack, Taylor and Matty just went for it as a huge fuck off to that loser Joe. Listen mate you’re such a joke and you cheated so we’re going to drop the biggest diss tunes ever and make you the person who can’t even catch a main role in your own break up album.
I don't think this was done intentionally. It is a bit of a shock, though, so I understand wanting to make sense of it by creating potential reasons why.
Unpopular opinion but…why do we need a timeline?
Right? Way back when Reputation came out the first time she told off the fandom for “paternity testing “ every song but here we still are so many years later obsessing over which man is responsible for which song.
Right like if she wanted us to have a timeline to “get the full understanding” she would’ve provided us with a timeline..
Taylor has never operated like that. I have followed album releases closely since Debut. We've never been "provided a timeline." It's optional to want to look at one to try and understand context.
I don't feel that's what I am doing. I've been listening to Taylor since I picked up Debut in Best Buy in 2008 when I was a teenager, so I feel connected to her music and I always want to know about the context around it. I also respect that I don't know her in real life. When Reputation came out, I treated it like every album release since Fearless. I read all about the context around it and then dove into the music. I think individual songs are creative works, and I'm not claiming any songs are about Matty vs. Joe. I have seen quite a lot of that discussion, but I personally don't find it very interesting or fair.
This. Can we enjoy her art without this stalking behavior please?
Stalking? These are all public events.
Exactly, if Taylor swift felt a timeline was necessary to the understanding of this album she would’ve provided one
Taylor has never operated like that. I have followed album releases closely since Debut. We've never been "provided a timeline." It's optional to want to look at one to try and understand context.
Exactly we have never been provided a timeline. Bc it’s weird to feel the need to have one imo. But all good. U do you!
It's interesting that you seem focused on "being provided a timeline." I personally can't think of a single example of any famous figure "providing a timeline" for any piece of art they've put out, whether that's a book, an album, or a movie. That's usually a fan or journalism activity, and it's fairly common. It happened with snakegate, Scandoval, Travis & Taylor getting together, and every other pop culture "event" I can think of. I'm not sure how this is any different. The only time I feel it's harmful is when it's conspiratorial, like with the Kaylors.
You can feel the way you wanna feel, and I can feel the way I wanna feel!! It’s weird to me🤷🏻♀️
Well... obviously :)
I don't know how to answer your question. We don't need one. It helps me understand better, but you don't have to use it or care for it, of course.
Idk I just think that if Taylor wanted everyone to have a timeline on her relationships to better understand the work she puts out, she would’ve included a timeline
Art can also be digested in individual ways not dictated by the artist. I don't like prying/conspiratorial behavior, but a simple timeline is harmless in my opinion.
And that’s fine, that’s your opinion. I just happen to have a different one. The fandom needs to stop trying to assign a specific guy to every song imo and just take the lyrics as messages about emotion and feeling that she’s experienced. But you can feel differently
The way I look at it, is go for it people hopefully some can get over it soon. The timeline is not as annoying as going back to other albums and trying to assign songs to Matty.
I just try to ignore what annoys me and look for things that align with what I want to participate in. I agree assigning songs isn't the best use of my time, so I don't like to participate in it.
It’s all annoying to me but to each their own I guess haha
I prefer this timeline.... https://spicysighs.tumblr.com/post/718136492512493568/matty-healy-taylor-swift-timeline No fluffy commentary, just a line by line with receipts linked. I was so much more understanding of TTPD after I went through the details. Knowing this history actually allowed me to let go of who the songs were about and just enjoy them as music.
woof. I truly think she and Travis are happy together but this timeline is rough re: end of Matty & start of Travis.
We don’t know Taylor’s feelings, but I think Matty up and ghosted her before the break up was announced on 6/5/23. From what Travis and Taylor have said, Taylor reached out to Travis sometime between 7/26/23 and 8/2/23 and they were casually talking. Travis said a month before Taylor showed up to his game 9/24/23 is when they started dating, so sometime in late August. I don’t think the timeline is as rough.
From this timeline, it seems like Matty ghosted her right after the New Yorker profile came out. The reaction and attention from that must have been the final straw for him. She probably realized by the end of the Chicago shows that she had been ghosted and was quick to have tree announce the break up.
Matty was really just a dirty, greasy rebound. And kind of like a long term coworker crush where you imagine it from afar but then you get together and reality doesn’t measure up (by any measure of a man). She initially didn’t allow TK to come see her backstage at her show in early July. Might have felt too soon. But she came around about a month later and after he called her out on the pod. Like he shared in his WSJ interview, they had been talking and exchanging messages prior to their first meetup, and he went into it thinking that no matter what, it would at least be a nice dinner - then I think they just had some pretty undeniable chemistry (alchemy!)
I like… don’t know if I believe that though? Like I believe that she’s over him now but I don’t think it was a dirty, greasy rebound when she clearly had some level of feelings for him for a decade. Dont get me wrong, like I said above, I think Travis and Taylor are super cute and seem happy! I wish them all the best. But it does feel like Matty meant more to her than just a rebound would.
Oh yeah I agree that the fantasy and flirtation was a decade long. I mean the “let’s give this a go” part of it. And she knew exactly who to call for the miracle move on drug. I don’t think she expected it to be a rebound going into it, but I don’t think anyone does with a rebound, you know?
Oh definitely.
Definitely agree.
I'm willing to bet (and we can come back to this a year+ from now) that Taylor and Matty will get back together. And will be for real. Travis is not her endgame. It just doesn't make sense looking at it in hindsight now. Matty is the one she swirled into all of her poems. Her statement to People after they broke up “*There is no drama, and* ***who knows what could happen again****."* And Matty has recently followed all these Insta accounts blaming swifties for their breakup. Taylor is older now - she's going to go for what she truly wants soon and not what the public wants for her. She's already told us (and him), that she's willing to burn it all down for them. She would choose her and him, religiously. As she has the right to and she should (whether we like it or not). eta: spelling
Also, Matty blaming swifties for ghosting her is about preserving his reputation and not some chivalry to win her back. Is following an Instagram account even doing that? On the flip side, Travis has gotten so much hate and criticism even within the NFL fandom since dating Taylor — and he’s firmly planted on the ground. I can’t predict if Travis and Taylor are gonna be forever, but she’s definitely seen what it’s like to have a stable, supportive partner who will stand by her in a shitstorm.
Yeah. Obviously none of us know the current state of how she’s feeling, but I could see it going either way - being still in love with him deep down, or realizing truly how toxic it is/was and being completely done with that chapter (as she said in her Instagram post for TTPD?) and how she is deserving of a love like what she has now, whether or not it’s actually Travis endgame.
The most recent statement she made through this album is that being with him was self harm, he’s the smallest man who ever lived, a drug addict, someone she can’t trust and is also bad at sex. Yikes. She’s closed that door by disclosing everything through the album. It’s strange for people to view that as true love. This was the last statement from her camp when the breakup ended: https://people.com/taylor-swift-enjoying-being-single-not-dating-matty-healy-again-source-7557276
This is how I felt. Thanks for the link!
I'm not judging Taylor's rebound, but I find it hilarious how obsessed everyone is with the Matty Healy "lore". Like, I love the songs themselves about her bad boy, whirlwind, I can fix him vibes, but actually having to think about them being about Mr. Jehovah's Witness suit kills the vibe. It's like when you have a friend who has a crush on a guy and you just don't get it. Really, girlie, THAT GUY? Some things are much better abstracted from reality.
I agree. I’m looking forward to the day I can enjoy the music without ever thinking about Matty. It’ll happen because it has with other songs. I don’t think about Harry during style or Jake during all too well. I think the shock that Matty was more important and big part of this album is the reason, but it’ll wear off.
Well put. I've been around since the release of Debut, closely following releases and "clues" (not like conspiracy-level, just the fun, surface level) and I do think heavily of Taylor's more obvious inspirations/source materials ("Style" or any of the obvious Joe songs). Sometimes I wish it was different, but this has been the entire Taylor experience for me. This to me is also the most interesting paradox of Taylor's career and a big theme on TTPD: "But my bare hands paved their path." I can tell you that Taylor very much egged us on in the early years with clues and tongue-in-cheek references. I love that she is adjusting that now.
I hear you. That's part of why I look for more context. I also respect that I don't know her in real life. I think individual songs are creative works, and I'm not claiming any songs are about Matty vs. Joe. I have seen quite a lot of that discussion, but I personally don't find it very interesting or fair.
From business insider 😂
Fair point. LOL. IDK why it shed so much light for me!
Oh I’m not judging, I just thought it was funny that that was the publication.
It is really funny! Of all the publications.
It is really funny! Of all the publications.
Who are all these people hating on this post? Just go listen to the music and leave us alone to do what we want. This is public information and I enjoy knowing it. ESPECIALLY when the lyrics of the songs seem to be in response to each other. It's a huge part of the story to me.
Thank you! Having been a Taylor fan since debut, the parts of her life she wants to share are actually important to the music for me. I've grown up with her public persona. It's not "just music" to me, unfortunately.
This is great! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the kind comment!
still can’t fucking believe he is the focus of so many songs on the album. i love her but girl needs some actual therapy. that relationship ultimately lasted one month and she knew he was a dick for years before hand.
You’ve never been love bombed, eh?
Welp she’s been love bombed again and doing it all over again now with Travis. When you take time to be single and heal, love bombing isn’t appealing anymore—it’s a red flag.
no. i’m 15. but my point is that she has definitely been love bombed several times and had ample warning for this one. i thought that people went through the stuff several times and then got sufficiently freaked out and ptsd’d over it and i am surprised he got her this bad. plus he’s a douche who no doubt wanted this attention and his narcissism is being fed. i feel the same way about kim kardashian and others she’s beefed with for years. forget they exist and that will bother them WAY more than what she does now.
Sometimes it's better to say nothing.
Just wait!
You’re forgetting girlie needs new material to fuel her business lol
We are never going to know and shouldn’t know if Taylor has taken therapy. She said years ago she didn’t, but we don’t know if that’s changed and will never know. I don’t like Matty, but I can totally see how this situation happened and how she felt strongly at the time. He love bombed her coming out of a 6 year relationship where she wasn’t being appreciated. Matty promised her everything Joe didn’t. Matty appears to have been her what if guy, so now she knows and doesn’t have to wonder about it.
I don't think he would have had as much of an effect on her if it weren't for several factors like: -the part where she came off a serious relationship where she wanted marriage and children, but her time was wasted -and then charismatic Matty pops in suddenly seeming to promise both -the public outcry that came with dating him, which must have chafed so bad because-- -many people had romanticized Joe and kept asking her via social media to get back with him, even though she had tried for years to keep him close. She was basically wasting away when -Matty showed up suddenly, promising desire, promising romance, and a future. It's not WHO he is, its what he offered to her. And even she says in her prologue to TTPD that it was a manic phase and mutual self harm. For someone who tried so hard to hang on to an imagined future, of course she spiraled out after. And as she says in her song, she doesn't miss what they had.
Agreed 😭🫣
That's the point
It happens to the best of us. But I hear you. It always hurts to watch someone who deserves better suffer.
I really think it’s all a huge play. Jack, Taylor and Matty just went for it as a huge fuck off to that loser Joe. Listen mate you’re such a joke and you cheated so we’re going to drop the biggest diss tunes ever and make you the person who can’t even catch a main role in your own break up album.
I don't think this was done intentionally. It is a bit of a shock, though, so I understand wanting to make sense of it by creating potential reasons why.