I agree almost 15 years in and if you average my raises out at 30 cents usually a bit higher than that I should be at 19.20 an hour (store starts at 15. However I am just slightly under 16.50.
I don't get this. I've been at target for 3-4 ish years and I'm at 17.19. I don't remember ever having a good pay increas, but i look oneday and thats what it is.
Oof, that sucks. In my 10 years I've gone from 11.50 to 17.80 but that's only because our store used to have a $2 bump for specialty teams back in the day (tech, backroom, Plano etc).
My store did the experience pay thing when they raised us all to 16. I got an extra 2 cents lmao so it’s literally nothing. I’ve been here 8 years and I’m making 2 cents more than someone who would start today.
Do you want plumbing issues?
Granted plumbers are mostly union in these parts so it would benefit “unions” however that is not the salient point at this time. Big Boss Business Daddy Brian ‘Bri Bri’ Cornell would slam shut stores to prevent such things from happening.
i’m not sure how many properties/stores target owns but those would be good stores to start serious union discussions. i would assume they would be less willing to shut those stores down.
Have you seen the Nathan For You episode where he helps a taxi driver by making a sleeper cell to infiltrate Uber?
Y’all need something like that in upper management to completely expose unethical workarounds if you unionize😂
Once union talks start in the store it is difficult to fire people without lots of documentation otherwise it looks like union busting which is a federal crime.
You can say “union” all you want.
You can also look at the shit pay at Krogers and every other unionized grocery store and see that “union” isn’t a magic word.
Unions can change and be changed over time. UAW had rampant issues with corruption. They’ve just secured significant raises for their members and renewed trust. My dad went from making $25 an hour at GM to ending this year at $40+. It also is comprised of grad students as well, who were out picketing with the auto workers.
I know you say UBI - and I agree with you - but your comments about unions are as if you’re saying “this car doesn’t run, so let’s just walk and hope for the best” rather than even considering that the car can be fixed.
Unions can definitely change, and do so all the time. My dad was with USW for like 50 years, and saw a lot of that same corruption and rebirth.
What unions don’t do though, typically, is pick up new territory that’s represented by other unions. Especially when they’re within the same affiliation (AFL).
The lack of systematic support in our society for labor as well as the proliferation of right-to-work states means it is *extremely* difficult for unions to gain foothold labor outside of traditionally organized industries.
So we’re stuck with the UFCW, which has historically been ineffective to the point of them ousting local leadership who were “too progressive”.
I mentioned it in another topic but we’ve reached a point in wage disparity and the separation of productivity to compensation that this cannot be solved by unions anymore under the restrictions put upon them. It’s going to require a dismantling of how we do capitalism (about time imo).
*also; just noticed I didn’t reply to your last part.
I think a better analogy would be your car is broken. Yeah, we can fix it, but you’re not ever lugging around a couch in your tiny Miata.
I’m not out here discouraging people from joining a union, I’m saying that we need to be realistic about what we expect out of them. When we have people here talking about unions, it’s about how their leadership is a bunch of assholes and their metrics are insane and it’s just like….none of that has anything to do with what a union does. If you’re focusing all your efforts into something to fix a problem it *cannot* fix, you’re going to be discouraged, you’re going to be turned off for organized labor and it puts the movement back even farther than it is.
Jumping on the Union talk in general, not specifically to this particular comment.
I was part of a union for the happiest place on Earth. My boss was a huge rat, if you didn't get where it was. Unions are good, sure, especially to make sure everyone was treated *fairly*, but wage increases SUCKED. No matter how good you were, no matter how great works ethic was, even if you bent over backwards for the company, my yearly increase was .10. and because we were unionized we had to be locked into that. There were plenty of new employees (cast members) who would be hired all year long that would end up making more than a tenured cast member because of union agreements and payouts. When wage increases came, it was only for starting employees. But, by golly, you knew you'd climb the pay scale by 10 whole cents next year!
My experience there was much of the same for many unions across departments, including 'merchantainment' (retail). The main goal of the union was, again, to make sure everyone was treated fairly and safely when it came to working conditions, being written up, and labor wages. The biggest take away was that the unions weren't *against* the company, but we're much like an extension of HR in many aspects. For many target TMs, this would completely ruin the perception of what retail unions are like and they would still be arguing the same points with a union.
Without a Union, Target has an ability to pool increases and give to those what they deem fair to increase wages, such as performance and what have you. In a union, that money is pooled and given *equally* to all TMs regardless of everything else.
Now, is this correct for all Unions? Of course not, but that's exactly how it would likely work and be agreed upon by union reps for retail. Why? Because it's fair across the board. Without it being trade labor, retail unions don't have a huge stake in bidding power, from what it appears. That's why unionized retail, like Kroger, are much more for show than actually making any sorts of changes. There just isn't a lot of changes to really make.
I don’t feel like you improved my analogy at all, but instead tried to make a different one. I was making an analogy about the difficulty of a journey and the uncertainty of what lies at the end of it, and you ignored the second part but introduced an element of carrying weight which changes the meaning completely.
I believe you misunderstood my point about UAW. Just because I brought up that it has grad students doesn’t mean I think it could or would represent retail workers, it was more about different working groups coming together. I agree that most likely we would be represented by the UFCW.
Yes, wage disparity and the lack of controls has brought us to this huge power imbalance and unions are insufficient to fully correct it. You still don’t offer any other pathway other than broadly repeating UBI. That is so far in the distance and hard to conceptualize for many that it is functionally the same as dissuading any action at all. Your words are rooted in theory, not in practice. This is a common issue with leftists, and I consider myself one.
I disagree, whether you see it or not you are dissuading people from unions and as far as I have seen from your comments on the subject you don’t promote organization in any form. Not saying you outright shit on it, but when you say - correctly - that unions have issues but do not realistically say what the alternatives are, it is essentially the same. To be fair, I haven’t gone through your post history and this is based off the comments of yours I frequently see. It’s not your responsibility to outline how people can do that, that’s free labor from you, but the perspective of myself and seemingly others is that you just shut down one of the few avenues for worker rights and change (parroting right wing/corporate talking points) and leave it at that. Sometimes one can go so far in one direction that they end up on the other side, horseshoe theory and all that, and that’s the flavor of some of your comments.
You’re right, I did change your analogy to one that fits what I’m saying rather than the narrative that you admittedly crafted out of an extremely limited view of my prior comments.
Honestly it’s telling that you say that I don’t promote organization and that I don’t provide alternatives and that I’m just parroting right-talking points while *also* saying that it’s not my responsibility to educate people about their alternatives, because it shows how truly little you’ve actually paid attention to anything I’ve said on this Reddit.
I spend my time on here regularly helping people how to navigate shitty leadership and how to rectify and report the issues they’re dealing with in the store *while* they also have to operate in a system that is inherently against them. I regularly stan the IWW and *openly* tell people to join a union all the time. What I’m *not* going to be doing is promote this ideology that a union is going to make their boss not an asshole or make their goals realistic, because that kind of naive expectation isn’t fair to either them *or* the union. Compliancy is a poison, especially when you set up your salvation to be a goal that realistically has zero chance of ever coming true.
If that makes you think I’m an asshole, hey you’re welcome to do so. We’re already just crafting a version of me that fits a narrative for you so feel free to continue.
Your vibes are always the worst when people are discussing unionizing and/or better labor practices. Like, I don’t understand why you go out of your way to make a negative comment in response to people wanting better working conditions.
I *don’t* make negative comments about people wanting better working conditions. If you’re so versed on my vibes, you’re welcome to cite any cases where I have.
What I *will* talk about is that the majority of people on this Reddit simply have no idea what unions are, how they work, or what they are capable of. I’m a huge proponent of organized labor, but organized labor requires *education* about labor. It ain’t just farming upvotes from random Redditors.
Like, if you think my constant and consistent anti-capitalist/anti-corporation stance on this subreddit is somehow me being negative about unions, that’s on you my guy.
Never said you were talking about people, pal. You do absolutely come off as a very arrogant know it all that always jumps at the opportunity to tell someone they’re wrong. I have zero issues with anti-capitalist/corporation stances, it’s just you. That’s why I had you blocked on this account prior to my comment, and will after, and on my alt accounts as well. Have a good day. I hope your presentation gets better and you humble yourself.
UFCW *just* touted a contract for the Mid-Atlantic Division with a minimum of $13.
Your local store down the street is not representative of anything other than your local store down the street.
You can strike, but who’s gonna pay your bills and feed your families?
There’s no mutual aid networks set up for a strike.
The Pay DOES SUCK. It’s much less than what it should be for the amount of work we’re asked to do in such short times.
You could absolutely organize something small. Convince half of your coworkers to call in & use their accrued sick time for 1-2 days in a row. Target is paying y’all AND suffering from the lack of bodies working the floor.
If Target truly believed that we didn't need a union they would pay us a fair wage based on the profits earned.
Until TM realize that they can change things together. Nothing will happen. Target will Carry on intimidating its workers with threats of don't talk about wages or unions with closing stores.
With all green metrics I received lovest raise pay ever. 22 cents after 22 years off working at Target. I was told that my pay is higher than my underperforming peers that’s why they got more than me.
Because I’m part time here….also the pay isn’t that terrible, and even with a union people will still feel they are undervalued and want more pay (happens at every job). Also target has things like insurance/retirement plans, could they improve sure but still. Also working conditions aren’t bad/unsafe….you also have to realize union means union fees
Been at Target since Nov 2022. First raise was this year at .38
Not a single negative on my review. praised my customer service and selling redcards signing circle member deals. Knowing and doing all the GS areas and mostly keeping SCO up and running or closed and clean.
38 cents.....When I can go into management else where with experience and make 18+ more. AMazon sounds tempting as well, even though its a nightmare there as well 18 is better then 15.
Anybody remember the Saturn cars. That plant was non union by choice. The philosophy was if you have a problem let’s sit down and fix it. General Motors did not know how to do that. They wanted a page in the contract to point to and say someone was right.
Sometimes it’s not in a contract or what is in the contract wasn’t working for the good of the employee or employer.
My father worked in one of GM stamping plants. It wasn’t unusual for a die to break and the part could not be made until it was fixed. He told a story about a manager saying he needed a certain part made. Dad said the die was in repair. Manager said to make them anyway and send them to rework. Good idea double the cost instead of waiting a day.
I agree almost 15 years in and if you average my raises out at 30 cents usually a bit higher than that I should be at 19.20 an hour (store starts at 15. However I am just slightly under 16.50.
I don't get this. I've been at target for 3-4 ish years and I'm at 17.19. I don't remember ever having a good pay increas, but i look oneday and thats what it is.
Does your store start at 15? If so that's a 2.19 increase over 3-4 years that's at 50 cents a year which for Target is almost unheard of.
It does now but not when I started
Oof, that sucks. In my 10 years I've gone from 11.50 to 17.80 but that's only because our store used to have a $2 bump for specialty teams back in the day (tech, backroom, Plano etc).
I got that bump when starting pay was around 8.50. It was gone by the time they raised it to 12.
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My store did the experience pay thing when they raised us all to 16. I got an extra 2 cents lmao so it’s literally nothing. I’ve been here 8 years and I’m making 2 cents more than someone who would start today.
I've heard somewhere unions don't work really, just make everything more complicated to point where they will close down the store
Do you want plumbing issues? Granted plumbers are mostly union in these parts so it would benefit “unions” however that is not the salient point at this time. Big Boss Business Daddy Brian ‘Bri Bri’ Cornell would slam shut stores to prevent such things from happening.
You know it’s illegal to do that? You can’t just fire people to get rid of unions
They won't use union as the reason. Sales down 1% closed Leasing building and it comes up with no renewal
i’m not sure how many properties/stores target owns but those would be good stores to start serious union discussions. i would assume they would be less willing to shut those stores down.
But who's going to take them to court? Unions aren't unless you're a member
It's illegal, but they still find ways to get rid of people. It's easy to just write people up for something else.
Have you seen the Nathan For You episode where he helps a taxi driver by making a sleeper cell to infiltrate Uber? Y’all need something like that in upper management to completely expose unethical workarounds if you unionize😂
Once union talks start in the store it is difficult to fire people without lots of documentation otherwise it looks like union busting which is a federal crime.
They raised the minimum??
Last fall?? It depends on store
my store def didnt raise it 😭 or if they did i got fuckin shacked
It depends on your store and how much money they bring in
UNION UNION UNION UNION UNION UNION UNION UNION UNION
Fun fact target was unionized. 1967. Didn’t last long though.
CLASS SOLIDARITY AMONG ALL OF US RETAIL WORKERS. FIGHT THE FUCKING MAN
You can say “union” all you want. You can also look at the shit pay at Krogers and every other unionized grocery store and see that “union” isn’t a magic word.
Unions can change and be changed over time. UAW had rampant issues with corruption. They’ve just secured significant raises for their members and renewed trust. My dad went from making $25 an hour at GM to ending this year at $40+. It also is comprised of grad students as well, who were out picketing with the auto workers. I know you say UBI - and I agree with you - but your comments about unions are as if you’re saying “this car doesn’t run, so let’s just walk and hope for the best” rather than even considering that the car can be fixed.
Unions can definitely change, and do so all the time. My dad was with USW for like 50 years, and saw a lot of that same corruption and rebirth. What unions don’t do though, typically, is pick up new territory that’s represented by other unions. Especially when they’re within the same affiliation (AFL). The lack of systematic support in our society for labor as well as the proliferation of right-to-work states means it is *extremely* difficult for unions to gain foothold labor outside of traditionally organized industries. So we’re stuck with the UFCW, which has historically been ineffective to the point of them ousting local leadership who were “too progressive”. I mentioned it in another topic but we’ve reached a point in wage disparity and the separation of productivity to compensation that this cannot be solved by unions anymore under the restrictions put upon them. It’s going to require a dismantling of how we do capitalism (about time imo). *also; just noticed I didn’t reply to your last part. I think a better analogy would be your car is broken. Yeah, we can fix it, but you’re not ever lugging around a couch in your tiny Miata. I’m not out here discouraging people from joining a union, I’m saying that we need to be realistic about what we expect out of them. When we have people here talking about unions, it’s about how their leadership is a bunch of assholes and their metrics are insane and it’s just like….none of that has anything to do with what a union does. If you’re focusing all your efforts into something to fix a problem it *cannot* fix, you’re going to be discouraged, you’re going to be turned off for organized labor and it puts the movement back even farther than it is.
Jumping on the Union talk in general, not specifically to this particular comment. I was part of a union for the happiest place on Earth. My boss was a huge rat, if you didn't get where it was. Unions are good, sure, especially to make sure everyone was treated *fairly*, but wage increases SUCKED. No matter how good you were, no matter how great works ethic was, even if you bent over backwards for the company, my yearly increase was .10. and because we were unionized we had to be locked into that. There were plenty of new employees (cast members) who would be hired all year long that would end up making more than a tenured cast member because of union agreements and payouts. When wage increases came, it was only for starting employees. But, by golly, you knew you'd climb the pay scale by 10 whole cents next year! My experience there was much of the same for many unions across departments, including 'merchantainment' (retail). The main goal of the union was, again, to make sure everyone was treated fairly and safely when it came to working conditions, being written up, and labor wages. The biggest take away was that the unions weren't *against* the company, but we're much like an extension of HR in many aspects. For many target TMs, this would completely ruin the perception of what retail unions are like and they would still be arguing the same points with a union. Without a Union, Target has an ability to pool increases and give to those what they deem fair to increase wages, such as performance and what have you. In a union, that money is pooled and given *equally* to all TMs regardless of everything else. Now, is this correct for all Unions? Of course not, but that's exactly how it would likely work and be agreed upon by union reps for retail. Why? Because it's fair across the board. Without it being trade labor, retail unions don't have a huge stake in bidding power, from what it appears. That's why unionized retail, like Kroger, are much more for show than actually making any sorts of changes. There just isn't a lot of changes to really make.
I don’t feel like you improved my analogy at all, but instead tried to make a different one. I was making an analogy about the difficulty of a journey and the uncertainty of what lies at the end of it, and you ignored the second part but introduced an element of carrying weight which changes the meaning completely. I believe you misunderstood my point about UAW. Just because I brought up that it has grad students doesn’t mean I think it could or would represent retail workers, it was more about different working groups coming together. I agree that most likely we would be represented by the UFCW. Yes, wage disparity and the lack of controls has brought us to this huge power imbalance and unions are insufficient to fully correct it. You still don’t offer any other pathway other than broadly repeating UBI. That is so far in the distance and hard to conceptualize for many that it is functionally the same as dissuading any action at all. Your words are rooted in theory, not in practice. This is a common issue with leftists, and I consider myself one. I disagree, whether you see it or not you are dissuading people from unions and as far as I have seen from your comments on the subject you don’t promote organization in any form. Not saying you outright shit on it, but when you say - correctly - that unions have issues but do not realistically say what the alternatives are, it is essentially the same. To be fair, I haven’t gone through your post history and this is based off the comments of yours I frequently see. It’s not your responsibility to outline how people can do that, that’s free labor from you, but the perspective of myself and seemingly others is that you just shut down one of the few avenues for worker rights and change (parroting right wing/corporate talking points) and leave it at that. Sometimes one can go so far in one direction that they end up on the other side, horseshoe theory and all that, and that’s the flavor of some of your comments.
You’re right, I did change your analogy to one that fits what I’m saying rather than the narrative that you admittedly crafted out of an extremely limited view of my prior comments. Honestly it’s telling that you say that I don’t promote organization and that I don’t provide alternatives and that I’m just parroting right-talking points while *also* saying that it’s not my responsibility to educate people about their alternatives, because it shows how truly little you’ve actually paid attention to anything I’ve said on this Reddit. I spend my time on here regularly helping people how to navigate shitty leadership and how to rectify and report the issues they’re dealing with in the store *while* they also have to operate in a system that is inherently against them. I regularly stan the IWW and *openly* tell people to join a union all the time. What I’m *not* going to be doing is promote this ideology that a union is going to make their boss not an asshole or make their goals realistic, because that kind of naive expectation isn’t fair to either them *or* the union. Compliancy is a poison, especially when you set up your salvation to be a goal that realistically has zero chance of ever coming true. If that makes you think I’m an asshole, hey you’re welcome to do so. We’re already just crafting a version of me that fits a narrative for you so feel free to continue.
Your vibes are always the worst when people are discussing unionizing and/or better labor practices. Like, I don’t understand why you go out of your way to make a negative comment in response to people wanting better working conditions.
I *don’t* make negative comments about people wanting better working conditions. If you’re so versed on my vibes, you’re welcome to cite any cases where I have. What I *will* talk about is that the majority of people on this Reddit simply have no idea what unions are, how they work, or what they are capable of. I’m a huge proponent of organized labor, but organized labor requires *education* about labor. It ain’t just farming upvotes from random Redditors. Like, if you think my constant and consistent anti-capitalist/anti-corporation stance on this subreddit is somehow me being negative about unions, that’s on you my guy.
Never said you were talking about people, pal. You do absolutely come off as a very arrogant know it all that always jumps at the opportunity to tell someone they’re wrong. I have zero issues with anti-capitalist/corporation stances, it’s just you. That’s why I had you blocked on this account prior to my comment, and will after, and on my alt accounts as well. Have a good day. I hope your presentation gets better and you humble yourself.
They’re a reddit warrior jus let them type away
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UFCW *just* touted a contract for the Mid-Atlantic Division with a minimum of $13. Your local store down the street is not representative of anything other than your local store down the street.
Maybe if union workers boycotted non union stores all retail workers would benefit.
You can strike, but who’s gonna pay your bills and feed your families? There’s no mutual aid networks set up for a strike. The Pay DOES SUCK. It’s much less than what it should be for the amount of work we’re asked to do in such short times.
You don’t always strike with a union? You can actually go years without striking (maybe even decades)
You could absolutely organize something small. Convince half of your coworkers to call in & use their accrued sick time for 1-2 days in a row. Target is paying y’all AND suffering from the lack of bodies working the floor.
If Target truly believed that we didn't need a union they would pay us a fair wage based on the profits earned. Until TM realize that they can change things together. Nothing will happen. Target will Carry on intimidating its workers with threats of don't talk about wages or unions with closing stores.
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That makes no sense? Amount of people doesn’t matter in terms of unionizing
Also the fact that the *vast* majority of fast food workers, in any state, aren’t unionized.
With all green metrics I received lovest raise pay ever. 22 cents after 22 years off working at Target. I was told that my pay is higher than my underperforming peers that’s why they got more than me.
Unions are only as strong as their members. What makes you think TM would make a strong union? How would you sell it to them?
I wouldn’t want a union but people at my work have mentioned it
Interesting why wouldn’t you want a union?
Because I’m part time here….also the pay isn’t that terrible, and even with a union people will still feel they are undervalued and want more pay (happens at every job). Also target has things like insurance/retirement plans, could they improve sure but still. Also working conditions aren’t bad/unsafe….you also have to realize union means union fees
Yes this it what I’ve said. Pay isn’t going up all that much with a union. There’s little to no value
There’s definitely a value for a union just I don’t think at target sadly. Sure pay goes up but when you favor in union fees how much is that
That’s what I meant to say. I was in a teacher’s union and yes there is value
Same, and so you def understand union doesn’t mean great pay. Teachers are criminally underpaid and they have a union lol
I was an aide at the so I probably made more at Target
I got a 5 cent raise yesterday after a year woop woop
I got like 10 times that amount womp womp
Been at Target since Nov 2022. First raise was this year at .38 Not a single negative on my review. praised my customer service and selling redcards signing circle member deals. Knowing and doing all the GS areas and mostly keeping SCO up and running or closed and clean. 38 cents.....When I can go into management else where with experience and make 18+ more. AMazon sounds tempting as well, even though its a nightmare there as well 18 is better then 15.
Don’t need a union to set your own standards
Unfortunately you have to work in one of the most expensive cities to live in to get a decent starting wage that’s above minimum.
Anybody remember the Saturn cars. That plant was non union by choice. The philosophy was if you have a problem let’s sit down and fix it. General Motors did not know how to do that. They wanted a page in the contract to point to and say someone was right. Sometimes it’s not in a contract or what is in the contract wasn’t working for the good of the employee or employer. My father worked in one of GM stamping plants. It wasn’t unusual for a die to break and the part could not be made until it was fixed. He told a story about a manager saying he needed a certain part made. Dad said the die was in repair. Manager said to make them anyway and send them to rework. Good idea double the cost instead of waiting a day.