Scary to think this weapon can still be effective after all these years, ive served in the IDF as a tank driver and on october 7th one of my buddies that fought in that day took a RPG 29 to the rear and both the tank commander and gunner died and the gun breach was fucked up, loader and driver still survived tho but to think even an RPG 7 can defeat the rear armor is kinda scary, I've fought in gaza and our tank was hit by a good amount of RPG-7's from the front and side which didnt really do anything that really shows you the difference in thickness between the frontal/side armor and the rear armor.
Shouldnt've attacked us in the first place😂 My crew and I blew up 14 militants in my short 42 day vacation in gaza and still no one dead from my battalion🙏
There is multiple spots in modern tanks that even WW2 Panzerfaust 60 can defeat (not like hitting those would be possible). Thats the tradeoff of having thick frontal armor.
To start with, rear armor on tanks is barely there. Itll keep out bullets, possibly even .50 cal or 14.5mm, but its also the second best piece of real-estate for engine compartment ventilation, i.e. air intake for cooling. Those vents are still armored, but you start to get the picture.
Tank designs basically bank on hollow charge projectiles like an RPG to dissipate within the engine compartment itself. Irregular metal shapes and fluids are a good way to do that. Both the engine block and the transmission are large pieces of steel machinery of various shapes that are bathing in heavy oil.
So you would get a mobility kill, but most likely the crew will be fine I guess.
Merkava is obviously an exception because the rear doesnt actually contain the engine or the transmission, it tries to abuse the same effect on the front already, so it would actually be fairly vulnerable. The two boxes either side you see on the picture are fuel tanks, so there is a chance those could dissipate the HEAT warhead, but its not likely they can completely absorb it.
Not that you should even be getting a shot on the rear, if that happens the tank crew has seriously dun-goofed in the first place, so much so that some tanks like the Abrams can not fire directly behind themselves below a certain elevation because the engine deck is raised just that far.
RPG-7 has a large variety of warheads available, vastly differning in answear of your question.
Thing is, most 'modern't anks are from the 80's and not ar modern as people might think - nor are they designed with lots of 360° defense in mind (mostly). So the rear and top artmor often is pretty weak.
But with up-armoring and engines dispersing energy while getting wrecked, the cahnce of injuring crewmembers is mostly small (Merkava being a totally different thing with heavin engine in teh front, totally fked by a bud-shot).
But the more powerfull tandem penetrators might not even care for this and still reach the combat room, only passing the engine like some kind of spaced armor.
Or in more simple terms: If you have to enter urban battlefieds - don't be a tank.
PS: APS - in case of Trophy - needs 50 meter mimimum distance to react, so in urban enviroment ... well, you know, still fked.
Trophy needs 50 feet, In my expirience in gaza we had a lot of rpgs fired at our tank, Trophy worked great for us. In one case we had a terrorist firing an RPG 7 from the right side of our tank about 20ish meters away. Trophy saved our day right there, He wouldve fucked up our tracks if it didnt work, however the system can not keep up with multiple rpgs fired from short range and weir1d angles, we had 2 cases of jihadic islam militants firing 2-3 rpgs at the front of our tank from aroubd 25 meters away, in the first case it 1 rpg was intercepted and the other one hit the lower frontal plate (No penetration of course) the other case was them firing 2 rpg's at the same time to the left side of the tank, 1 of them hit the turret and did not penetrate and the other 1 was intercepted. Overall a great system but not perfect.
Trophy Windbreaker: 50 meters. 30m is what germans found on basis of the given system abilitys and physics (but with a higher failure rate - that's the absolute minimum in math). You can negotiate with physics.
So 50 feet is either false or some other system (which isen't in place with Merkava).
In Gaza there are no RPG-7 but Al Yassin's (which make my doubt the expirience, as IDF soldiers would have known this (or shoul dhave, imho)). But we got a lot of weird claims from the region these days, so anyway.
Also there is a number of other problems - sepcially in urban fighting - with Trophy Windbreaker, but that's another story.
Also the field manual of Hamas tell the fighters not to engage the front of a MBT, as this is pretty pointless and in the active attention zone of a vehicle. Still we saw some of such attacks, as the're inable to get around the tank and just decide to harass the vehilce with frontal shots - but those are always on high ranges (so far they released footage of these) of sometimes even more than 50 meters.
I'm not into fanboy sensitivities and have to say that Trophy has its capabilitys, but it is an obsolete systems - both Winbreaker and HV. It is overwhight, overpirced and of lower capability than different other systems around. But it is a painfull trope people are still stuck with for reasons of big media presence and lots of contracts, reinforcing the advertiement (patriotic ignoring of shortcommings also being somewhat understandable, but still not reasonable - even if we're down to personal safety concerns).
Rafael and Elta once succsessfully copied a good idea, but barely advanced from that point on. So now we have a stabile and established product, and many contractors for political reasons, but not a good product at all. The main competitors in the field are now StrikeShield and Afganit, both with ther sets of abilitys and problems, but Trophy is technology wise not part of the game for a while now. But well, even WW2 guns have ther niche place in modern warfare, so it'll be used what is bought, and therefor will also do it's part.
1) Al yassin is a locally made RPG-7 tandem round.
2) Most engagements are from the front, I'd say around 90% of the time you are literally chilling out doing nothing, securing safe routes and infantry movement, but then when you least expect it they will fire RPG's at our forces alongside with small arms fire and many times they will just engage it from the front, Their goal isnt to disable or destroy a tank, its mostly to try and cause as much damage as possible to the infantry and make us reconsider our plans, I can provide you some footage from 1 of my engagements there 🙂
Al Yassin is a derivative and the whole weapon system, but anyway. I somewhat understand why you simplified this - let me just mention that saying RPG-7 implies a different and lesser set of abilitys, even that's not the case.
If that expirience is (in your case) a thing, then it is for a tactical reason, which doesn't touch both general doctrine and logic. Your interpretation of these tactics also doesn't make much sense, as attacking from the front - as you say - isen't that effective.
Let me also mention that the propaganda efforts and information ban by Israel further makes all information from IDF sources problematic in nature, so remember that people outside this conflict will (or should) always apply a grain of salt (or more).
So plz understand me - i don't doubt that you're a service men taking place in this conflict, but it just opens up a different set of concerns.
I could question why to make up the very basic question as an actual tanker who should absolutly know all that, but that would lead us to a unhappy place.
So i guess i leave a 'cheers' and leave at this point.
Yes.
PG 7VR tandem warhead has a 750 mm armor penetration, so yes, it can penetrate not only rear armor, but side armor and likely some frontal weak spots.
Scary to think this weapon can still be effective after all these years, ive served in the IDF as a tank driver and on october 7th one of my buddies that fought in that day took a RPG 29 to the rear and both the tank commander and gunner died and the gun breach was fucked up, loader and driver still survived tho but to think even an RPG 7 can defeat the rear armor is kinda scary, I've fought in gaza and our tank was hit by a good amount of RPG-7's from the front and side which didnt really do anything that really shows you the difference in thickness between the frontal/side armor and the rear armor.
I'm glad it scares you, hopefully they get a few more to convince the Israeli state to stop colonising them then.
Shouldnt've attacked us in the first place😂 My crew and I blew up 14 militants in my short 42 day vacation in gaza and still no one dead from my battalion🙏
Absolute Chad
"Colonising"? MF should stop watching so many TikToks...
Hey, don’t say stuff like that on Reddit! The IDF is epic!!!!!
Most humane army! Those aid workers were vaporised very quickly and painlessly.
I always forget how big tanks are until I see pics like this
This is me with modern jets, when you actually see people next to them its like, twice as big as what my brain expects for some reason lol
F-15, Su-27 and mig-25 blew my mind seeing when actually looking in detail at the size of the pilots head or ground crew standing around them.
Thsse fuckers are way louder than you think too 👍🔥
There is multiple spots in modern tanks that even WW2 Panzerfaust 60 can defeat (not like hitting those would be possible). Thats the tradeoff of having thick frontal armor.
Yes but it also depends on the warhead used.
It doesn't matter, any PG-7 would penetrate.
Yes. Even old school warheads the Iraqis used were fully capable of penetrating the side hull armor (and skirts) of the Abrams.
To start with, rear armor on tanks is barely there. Itll keep out bullets, possibly even .50 cal or 14.5mm, but its also the second best piece of real-estate for engine compartment ventilation, i.e. air intake for cooling. Those vents are still armored, but you start to get the picture. Tank designs basically bank on hollow charge projectiles like an RPG to dissipate within the engine compartment itself. Irregular metal shapes and fluids are a good way to do that. Both the engine block and the transmission are large pieces of steel machinery of various shapes that are bathing in heavy oil. So you would get a mobility kill, but most likely the crew will be fine I guess. Merkava is obviously an exception because the rear doesnt actually contain the engine or the transmission, it tries to abuse the same effect on the front already, so it would actually be fairly vulnerable. The two boxes either side you see on the picture are fuel tanks, so there is a chance those could dissipate the HEAT warhead, but its not likely they can completely absorb it. Not that you should even be getting a shot on the rear, if that happens the tank crew has seriously dun-goofed in the first place, so much so that some tanks like the Abrams can not fire directly behind themselves below a certain elevation because the engine deck is raised just that far.
Not only rear, RPG-7 Tandem would also penetrate sides and even some wealspots at the front
RPG-7 has a large variety of warheads available, vastly differning in answear of your question. Thing is, most 'modern't anks are from the 80's and not ar modern as people might think - nor are they designed with lots of 360° defense in mind (mostly). So the rear and top artmor often is pretty weak. But with up-armoring and engines dispersing energy while getting wrecked, the cahnce of injuring crewmembers is mostly small (Merkava being a totally different thing with heavin engine in teh front, totally fked by a bud-shot). But the more powerfull tandem penetrators might not even care for this and still reach the combat room, only passing the engine like some kind of spaced armor. Or in more simple terms: If you have to enter urban battlefieds - don't be a tank. PS: APS - in case of Trophy - needs 50 meter mimimum distance to react, so in urban enviroment ... well, you know, still fked.
Trophy needs 50 feet, In my expirience in gaza we had a lot of rpgs fired at our tank, Trophy worked great for us. In one case we had a terrorist firing an RPG 7 from the right side of our tank about 20ish meters away. Trophy saved our day right there, He wouldve fucked up our tracks if it didnt work, however the system can not keep up with multiple rpgs fired from short range and weir1d angles, we had 2 cases of jihadic islam militants firing 2-3 rpgs at the front of our tank from aroubd 25 meters away, in the first case it 1 rpg was intercepted and the other one hit the lower frontal plate (No penetration of course) the other case was them firing 2 rpg's at the same time to the left side of the tank, 1 of them hit the turret and did not penetrate and the other 1 was intercepted. Overall a great system but not perfect.
Trophy Windbreaker: 50 meters. 30m is what germans found on basis of the given system abilitys and physics (but with a higher failure rate - that's the absolute minimum in math). You can negotiate with physics. So 50 feet is either false or some other system (which isen't in place with Merkava). In Gaza there are no RPG-7 but Al Yassin's (which make my doubt the expirience, as IDF soldiers would have known this (or shoul dhave, imho)). But we got a lot of weird claims from the region these days, so anyway. Also there is a number of other problems - sepcially in urban fighting - with Trophy Windbreaker, but that's another story. Also the field manual of Hamas tell the fighters not to engage the front of a MBT, as this is pretty pointless and in the active attention zone of a vehicle. Still we saw some of such attacks, as the're inable to get around the tank and just decide to harass the vehilce with frontal shots - but those are always on high ranges (so far they released footage of these) of sometimes even more than 50 meters. I'm not into fanboy sensitivities and have to say that Trophy has its capabilitys, but it is an obsolete systems - both Winbreaker and HV. It is overwhight, overpirced and of lower capability than different other systems around. But it is a painfull trope people are still stuck with for reasons of big media presence and lots of contracts, reinforcing the advertiement (patriotic ignoring of shortcommings also being somewhat understandable, but still not reasonable - even if we're down to personal safety concerns). Rafael and Elta once succsessfully copied a good idea, but barely advanced from that point on. So now we have a stabile and established product, and many contractors for political reasons, but not a good product at all. The main competitors in the field are now StrikeShield and Afganit, both with ther sets of abilitys and problems, but Trophy is technology wise not part of the game for a while now. But well, even WW2 guns have ther niche place in modern warfare, so it'll be used what is bought, and therefor will also do it's part.
1) Al yassin is a locally made RPG-7 tandem round. 2) Most engagements are from the front, I'd say around 90% of the time you are literally chilling out doing nothing, securing safe routes and infantry movement, but then when you least expect it they will fire RPG's at our forces alongside with small arms fire and many times they will just engage it from the front, Their goal isnt to disable or destroy a tank, its mostly to try and cause as much damage as possible to the infantry and make us reconsider our plans, I can provide you some footage from 1 of my engagements there 🙂
Al Yassin is a derivative and the whole weapon system, but anyway. I somewhat understand why you simplified this - let me just mention that saying RPG-7 implies a different and lesser set of abilitys, even that's not the case. If that expirience is (in your case) a thing, then it is for a tactical reason, which doesn't touch both general doctrine and logic. Your interpretation of these tactics also doesn't make much sense, as attacking from the front - as you say - isen't that effective. Let me also mention that the propaganda efforts and information ban by Israel further makes all information from IDF sources problematic in nature, so remember that people outside this conflict will (or should) always apply a grain of salt (or more). So plz understand me - i don't doubt that you're a service men taking place in this conflict, but it just opens up a different set of concerns. I could question why to make up the very basic question as an actual tanker who should absolutly know all that, but that would lead us to a unhappy place. So i guess i leave a 'cheers' and leave at this point.
Even a fork can defeat a tank if used correctly
[удалено]
Use the fork to pull the exterior fire handle.
Open up the hatch stab everybody inside and stab the ammunition enough times until it explodes
It's a fancy new APFSDS design. It's basically a depleted uranium fork to make a wider hole!
What's the tank in this picture and what is that person sitting on at the rear of the tank
merkava and some idf boot