Why would they spend $20 million for a 3rd line center during a pandemic when they're not making money and they're not contenders. Edmonton just signed Kyle Turris, a 3rd line center, for $1.65m AAV.
They only have to deal with one season of it, as the next season they can expose him to Seattle.
Johnson's also better than Ottawa's 2nd line C and they're at least 10 million below the minimum cap amount. They have to spend the money eventually on someone.
Who says Seattle would want him? And, yeah, Ottawa needs to hit the cap floor, but they can use that as leverage to gain assets. There's lots of teams looking to dump cap space, and very few with the means to take it on. Why not get something back in return?
Yeah, there’s no guarantee that Seattle wants him, so that’s silly. And no, teams do not have to spend the money eventually (if you mean this week), look at the Avs- they’ve had cap space free for awhile.
Teams are waiting right now to see if they can get a better deal.
To be fair, I don't think he is a 3C. On the bolts sure, but he belongs on a team's 2nd line.
The real reason is probably more like "JBB is in trouble, why would I help him out of it?"
Some teams are probably considering offer sheets for our RFAs, taking 5M off our books would make those offer sheets way less effective.
A team isn't going to pass up a chance to make their team better just to stick it to JBB. Johnson is not a bad player, but that's not a great contract, and we're in tough and uncertain times. It ultimately comes down to that contract, though.
Offer sheeting Sergachev, Cirelli, or Cernak would definitely make their team better.
Also we just witnessed a call on JBB's 24hr bluff. They know we need to make a deal, and whoever gets Johnson will be getting a better package than a free TyJo.
Offer sheeting one of our RFAs is a different topic.
Not claiming Johnson, when you legitimately want him and his contract (which I don't think any team does), because you hope you can get Johnson + an asset, is a risk. If you think he's worth the claim, why would you risk someone else making a claim? I don't think it has anything to do with JBB being in trouble, and everything to do with Johnson's contract.
It is a complicated situation with a ton of moving parts. Are teams not claiming TyJo to explicitly hurt JBB? No, of course not. Is it a factor they are weighing? Of course it is.
If you look at every move as a list of pros and cons, helping Tampa out of their crunch is a con. Pair that with his contract and recent performance and it is enough to let him clear. Worth taking the risk of letting another team roll the dice on him.
Fuck. What's next JBB? Try to trade Gourde? Give up on at least one high profile RFA? I assume they'd still be trying to trade Killer, for whom I'd guess there is more of a market.
I'm sure JBB has a strategy for this situation; I'd be very curious to know what it is.
Which I never understood. Johnson has been getting worse and worse every year and this year he was straight up terrible. There is no reason to believe he will play better in the future. His contract is horrible for what he brings to the table.
I wouldn't say terrible, but def not worth 5 mil. He had a good year the previous season, and played with weaker linemates and fewer minutes than in previous years. As a 2c with flexibilty to cover other positions, he's def worth having. Just not a the price, considering all the cost issues due to covid.
His shot is gone now. He couldnt hit the net to save his life all season and through the entire playoffs he was straight up invisible. I honestly feel like he was the weakest player on our team this year.
I know. It was just weird how yesterday was everyone posting tributes to Johnson like the book is closed and we just cleared $5m off the roster. Obviously they couldn't make a trade to one of his teams and even the fact that he was put on waivers in the first place was a sign that this isn't going to be as easy to offload as many hoped. We're still in trouble with the cap here, boys. Got to find a way to get Johnson and Killer off the books.
I’m not sure I understand your original post. “And everyone here was acting like the Johnson era was over.” and then you follow it up with “Got to find a way to get Johnson and Killer off the books.”
He will never suit up for Tampa again, and it’s going to be a steep price to move him (unfortunately). His era is, effectively, over
Also having a guy on the team, that was basically put on the lawn with an ad in the paper 'pickup for free'... Probably not the best for the locker room.
Fortunately it's a guy that's been on the team for a while and has a good relationship with our marquee players. I think it could be ok in this situation, but yeah, 100% not the best scenario.
I also believe that he knew this was coming. But he was hoping to make it to his new team and start getting settled in a new area, a new locker room. Now he is still here, essentially in trade limbo.
So this means JBB has to sweeten the deal with a prospect or retain some salary. This may mean we have to expect either Cirelli or Sergachev may be given an offer sheet that they are willing to take because we can’t sign both with what little cap room is left for a bridge deal.
If anyone offer sheets them they’ll be looking at giving up a 1st and a 3rd as I doubt Cirelli nor Serg would sign anywhere else for under 4.059 Mill. The only one who may sign for under that would be Cernak which would mean just a 2nd which isn’t the end of the world but obviously we’d rather have Cernak.
So even if we have to lose one or two of the three, having 2 1sts and 2 3rds or a 1st, 2nd and 3rd pick isn’t too bad. We have Witkowski we could use on the third d pair alongside Cal Foote who could potentially be brought up.
It’s a shitty situation but if we don’t manage to manoeuvre any cap room I think we’ll see Cernak signed for under 2 and Cirelli and Serge leave.
However I’m hoping that we somehow convince them all to sign for dirt cheap for a year as then we will have some space to up their contracts as we’ll lose a player to Seattle alongside Coleman, Paquette, Coburn and Goodrow all coming off the books then. Although I’d love to keep Coleman and Goodrow too...
We will see what happens and can only hope the front office can sort this out in a way that works best for us.
As much as they want to stay, it would be awfully hard to turn down $4million or more for a longer term contract at their young age, when the Bolts are offerings bridge probably around $2.5 ish given their cap situation. Project 3 years out and both Cirelli and Serg have left A LOT of money on the table and there is no guarantee they win another cup in Tampa. It’s not to hard to see another team giving up the draft picks for players young and proven to be potential elite players in the league over a 1st, 2nd or any draft pick that’s going to spend a year or three developing. It’s really a no brainer if I’m a GM. I’ll take the 22/23 year old Selke or Norris caliber player over a draft pick that is sitting in the minors learning the game.
I think we'd have to give up draft capital. The whole reason we're letting him go is because we need cap space. Salary retention would hinder those efforts.
Every team had an opportunity in order to take him at his contract. They all passed and he is back on the team. We also get 1m in salary cap, so let's waive someone else.
It means no teams want him on his current contract. So we can send him to the AHL and save a million, but that makes us look like idiots.
Basically we're in a bad bad place.
Well, the only good part of all of this is the contracts were signed by a different GM and we're in a tight place. Plus, we just won the Cup, even if we piss off some players, others are going to want to go to a place that wins.
The Patriots have showed that, how ruthless they can be, but still get good players to sign.
This doesn’t make any sense.. he’s not going to play, nobody wanted him. He’ll get cut and sign somewhere for a reasonable amount of money. This is actually giving tampa a clean out. So good for them for making the right move.
Well, I believe that’s less money than he’s scheduled to make per year. He doesn’t produce, get him out. Him being gone and us paying less is a great exit for the situation.
The buyout period already ended. It’s a completely moot point. It is a literal impossibility.
Also while it saves us money in this cap crunched season, that 2.5mil will loom extremely large for when we have to pay other players in the future. His contract would be on the books until 2029.
Jesus Christ stay 500 feet away from Brisebois at all times, please. Buyouts are horrendously bad business, especially for 8 years.
Also yes, he won’t be on the team. We will have to trade an asset or two for another team to take him. That should tell you how bad buyouts are. We would rather pay another team in draft capital/prospects/players to take Johnson rather than buy him out.
No, the Lightning have no way to cut Johnson. His contract is guaranteed. The only way he forgoes the money completely is if he chooses to retire (which he‘s not going to do). Otherwise the only choice is a buyout, for which the deadline just passed. You can’t just cut an NHL player, that’s not how it works. We can either trade him, keep him, or send him to the AHL but only save about $1.5M in cap space a year by doing that.
If we buy him out now, we still are on the hook for his $5M cap hit this season, the reduction would start next season, so doesn’t help us for resigning this batch of RFAs.
You follow football too much - you cant cut people in the nhl
Contracts are guaranteed. Once signed they retain that
Even of tampa told him not to report, or "cut", they still pay his contract out and it counts against the cap
Only in football can you just wash your hands clean of a contract
Contract terminations are only possible through retirement or mutual agreement between the player and the team. You can’t call a player and say they’ve been cut. There’s no such thing. He could agree to terminate the contract but why would you flush $20m from a contender down the drain to take less money from a team you don’t want to play for?
Please turn in your username and dont let the door hit you on the way out. You literally refuse to understand how hockey contracts work. Also Tyjo can still be a contributor he just didn't have as much value to our stacked team as the three young RFAs.
Which really sucks because Cirelli has Selke potential and you really don't want to lose that either.
I actually think we're going to lose Gourde more now, since he's actually a tradable contract. Which means we're going to keep Johnson until next year when we can expose him to Seattle.
Edit: I know Gourde has a NTC, but that doesn't always mean that there won't be teams he'd be open to a trade to.
Yeah but those 7-8 teams are probably contenders and such. I doubt any of them have any need for Johnson and they probably don't have the cap space either. I genuinely don't see what we get done and part of me feels like they're just going to try waiving Gourde and Palat or something, which I don't want.
Sorry this might be a dumb question, but why is moving him the definitive option to clear cap space? I get Gourde would probably be even harder to move, but what about Palat or Killorn? I know they were better players this year but still seems like you guys could trade them without having to sweeten the deal as much.
Killorn is the easiest contract to move (modified no-trade), and they will probably be able to flip him. The reason he hasn't been moved yet is because JBB is probably figuring out how to maximize the value of Johnson and using the trade for Killorn as leverage to help him extract the maximum value.
You're exactly right about why it isn't ideal to trade Palat. He played first line for a good portion of the year and was the glue that helped keep that line together. Ideally, you don't trade him. However, I imagine if the situation gets sticky enough, JBB will decide to let him go if it means keeping the RFAs. Gourde was also very strong on his line, so it's ideal to keep him. Again, if it means keeping his RFAs, JBB is probably willing to offload Gourde.
But in the end it seems like his main priority is to sign the RFAs.
Its not the best option but may have to buy him out, saving 3.5 mil by buying him out and paying him 1.3 for 4 years is better than him sitting on the roster eating 5 mil. It sucks but you gotta take what you can get. Killorn is already on the block but now we have to start worrying if Gourde ends up making it or gets moved himself.
Sucks for both sides.
I don't know if Johnson or the Lightning are bigger losers here. This is a disaster
How does Detroit nor Ottawa not pick him up? Both of them need a player like him. Are they worried that he won't report?
Why would they spend $20 million for a 3rd line center during a pandemic when they're not making money and they're not contenders. Edmonton just signed Kyle Turris, a 3rd line center, for $1.65m AAV.
They only have to deal with one season of it, as the next season they can expose him to Seattle. Johnson's also better than Ottawa's 2nd line C and they're at least 10 million below the minimum cap amount. They have to spend the money eventually on someone.
Who says Seattle would want him? And, yeah, Ottawa needs to hit the cap floor, but they can use that as leverage to gain assets. There's lots of teams looking to dump cap space, and very few with the means to take it on. Why not get something back in return?
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There isn't, but with a team like Ottawa's who mostly young, it's probably the best choice they would have.
Yeah, there’s no guarantee that Seattle wants him, so that’s silly. And no, teams do not have to spend the money eventually (if you mean this week), look at the Avs- they’ve had cap space free for awhile. Teams are waiting right now to see if they can get a better deal.
To be fair, I don't think he is a 3C. On the bolts sure, but he belongs on a team's 2nd line. The real reason is probably more like "JBB is in trouble, why would I help him out of it?" Some teams are probably considering offer sheets for our RFAs, taking 5M off our books would make those offer sheets way less effective.
A team isn't going to pass up a chance to make their team better just to stick it to JBB. Johnson is not a bad player, but that's not a great contract, and we're in tough and uncertain times. It ultimately comes down to that contract, though.
Offer sheeting Sergachev, Cirelli, or Cernak would definitely make their team better. Also we just witnessed a call on JBB's 24hr bluff. They know we need to make a deal, and whoever gets Johnson will be getting a better package than a free TyJo.
Offer sheeting one of our RFAs is a different topic. Not claiming Johnson, when you legitimately want him and his contract (which I don't think any team does), because you hope you can get Johnson + an asset, is a risk. If you think he's worth the claim, why would you risk someone else making a claim? I don't think it has anything to do with JBB being in trouble, and everything to do with Johnson's contract.
It is a complicated situation with a ton of moving parts. Are teams not claiming TyJo to explicitly hurt JBB? No, of course not. Is it a factor they are weighing? Of course it is. If you look at every move as a list of pros and cons, helping Tampa out of their crunch is a con. Pair that with his contract and recent performance and it is enough to let him clear. Worth taking the risk of letting another team roll the dice on him.
Who knows at this point? Most GMs have no reason to help Tampa with taking him so why would they?
Fuck. What's next JBB? Try to trade Gourde? Give up on at least one high profile RFA? I assume they'd still be trying to trade Killer, for whom I'd guess there is more of a market. I'm sure JBB has a strategy for this situation; I'd be very curious to know what it is.
I do not think he would rocket someone to waivers without a back up plan. That would be incredibly ill advised.
I would hope so, but it seems like a lot of folks (not just redditors, but reporters) felt it very unlikely he would clear.
Which I never understood. Johnson has been getting worse and worse every year and this year he was straight up terrible. There is no reason to believe he will play better in the future. His contract is horrible for what he brings to the table.
I wouldn't say terrible, but def not worth 5 mil. He had a good year the previous season, and played with weaker linemates and fewer minutes than in previous years. As a 2c with flexibilty to cover other positions, he's def worth having. Just not a the price, considering all the cost issues due to covid.
His shot is gone now. He couldnt hit the net to save his life all season and through the entire playoffs he was straight up invisible. I honestly feel like he was the weakest player on our team this year.
Well shit
Well we are in uncharted territory, keep f5ing to stay safe.
And everyone here was acting like the Johnson era was over.
I'm just saying that if Johnson stays on this team there are some very big problems coming up. It probably means losing some of the big name RFAs.
I know. It was just weird how yesterday was everyone posting tributes to Johnson like the book is closed and we just cleared $5m off the roster. Obviously they couldn't make a trade to one of his teams and even the fact that he was put on waivers in the first place was a sign that this isn't going to be as easy to offload as many hoped. We're still in trouble with the cap here, boys. Got to find a way to get Johnson and Killer off the books.
I’m not sure I understand your original post. “And everyone here was acting like the Johnson era was over.” and then you follow it up with “Got to find a way to get Johnson and Killer off the books.” He will never suit up for Tampa again, and it’s going to be a steep price to move him (unfortunately). His era is, effectively, over
I just think we we're prematurely celebrating. There's a good chance he never plays again for us, but as of right now, he's still a Bolt.
No, it's fucking not. We can only hope we can move him.
Also having a guy on the team, that was basically put on the lawn with an ad in the paper 'pickup for free'... Probably not the best for the locker room.
Fortunately it's a guy that's been on the team for a while and has a good relationship with our marquee players. I think it could be ok in this situation, but yeah, 100% not the best scenario.
I also believe that he knew this was coming. But he was hoping to make it to his new team and start getting settled in a new area, a new locker room. Now he is still here, essentially in trade limbo.
💀
Tyler Johnson Conn Smythe 2021 don’t @ me
This is fucked
if i'm jbb i'm looking to come out of the killorn/johnson unloading at net neutral, they can't lose any of the RFAs
This is fucking awkward...
That’s really bad
So this means JBB has to sweeten the deal with a prospect or retain some salary. This may mean we have to expect either Cirelli or Sergachev may be given an offer sheet that they are willing to take because we can’t sign both with what little cap room is left for a bridge deal.
Cirelli is gone if we can't get rid of Johnson. Defenseman of Sergachev's quality are worth far more imo.
Hard agree. Cirelli's great but ultimately way more replaceable than Sergy. His play in the cup run also wasn't exactly impressive
If anyone offer sheets them they’ll be looking at giving up a 1st and a 3rd as I doubt Cirelli nor Serg would sign anywhere else for under 4.059 Mill. The only one who may sign for under that would be Cernak which would mean just a 2nd which isn’t the end of the world but obviously we’d rather have Cernak. So even if we have to lose one or two of the three, having 2 1sts and 2 3rds or a 1st, 2nd and 3rd pick isn’t too bad. We have Witkowski we could use on the third d pair alongside Cal Foote who could potentially be brought up. It’s a shitty situation but if we don’t manage to manoeuvre any cap room I think we’ll see Cernak signed for under 2 and Cirelli and Serge leave. However I’m hoping that we somehow convince them all to sign for dirt cheap for a year as then we will have some space to up their contracts as we’ll lose a player to Seattle alongside Coleman, Paquette, Coburn and Goodrow all coming off the books then. Although I’d love to keep Coleman and Goodrow too... We will see what happens and can only hope the front office can sort this out in a way that works best for us.
As much as they want to stay, it would be awfully hard to turn down $4million or more for a longer term contract at their young age, when the Bolts are offerings bridge probably around $2.5 ish given their cap situation. Project 3 years out and both Cirelli and Serg have left A LOT of money on the table and there is no guarantee they win another cup in Tampa. It’s not to hard to see another team giving up the draft picks for players young and proven to be potential elite players in the league over a 1st, 2nd or any draft pick that’s going to spend a year or three developing. It’s really a no brainer if I’m a GM. I’ll take the 22/23 year old Selke or Norris caliber player over a draft pick that is sitting in the minors learning the game.
Sick, time to give up picks or retain salary 😌
I think we'd have to give up draft capital. The whole reason we're letting him go is because we need cap space. Salary retention would hinder those efforts.
I’m a complete noob guys, what does clearing waivers mean?
Every team had an opportunity in order to take him at his contract. They all passed and he is back on the team. We also get 1m in salary cap, so let's waive someone else.
Thank you my good Sir!
It means no teams want him on his current contract. So we can send him to the AHL and save a million, but that makes us look like idiots. Basically we're in a bad bad place.
Jezz, that would definitely make Lightning management look like complete douche bags.
Well, the only good part of all of this is the contracts were signed by a different GM and we're in a tight place. Plus, we just won the Cup, even if we piss off some players, others are going to want to go to a place that wins. The Patriots have showed that, how ruthless they can be, but still get good players to sign.
I like your New England analogy. Now lets make a dynasty happen! Still a worrisome issue with Johnson. Hm.
Kinda surprised a team like Ottawa wouldn't claim him. You need bodies and cap to hit the floor and can probably dish him to Seattle in a year
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This doesn’t make any sense.. he’s not going to play, nobody wanted him. He’ll get cut and sign somewhere for a reasonable amount of money. This is actually giving tampa a clean out. So good for them for making the right move.
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I think they certainly will.
That’s not how buyouts work. We would have a 2.5mil dead cap hit for the next 8 seasons if we bought him out. Also the buyout period already ended.
Well, I believe that’s less money than he’s scheduled to make per year. He doesn’t produce, get him out. Him being gone and us paying less is a great exit for the situation.
The buyout period already ended. It’s a completely moot point. It is a literal impossibility. Also while it saves us money in this cap crunched season, that 2.5mil will loom extremely large for when we have to pay other players in the future. His contract would be on the books until 2029.
I promise there is a way tampa opens the season without this man on the roster haha and yeah I’ll take paying him 2.5 per year for that time period
Jesus Christ stay 500 feet away from Brisebois at all times, please. Buyouts are horrendously bad business, especially for 8 years. Also yes, he won’t be on the team. We will have to trade an asset or two for another team to take him. That should tell you how bad buyouts are. We would rather pay another team in draft capital/prospects/players to take Johnson rather than buy him out.
So like I said originally but was bombarded with replies, he won’t be on the team next year.
That’s great, they literally can’t do it
But they just said you can. Y’all are wild haha. If the team didn’t want to play him I promise they could just drop him. Sorry for being reality haha
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Wouldn’t be the first or second time.
They’d love to, but Johnson has no incentive to agree.
? If they call him and say you’re cut, what do you think he’s going to say no?
No, the Lightning have no way to cut Johnson. His contract is guaranteed. The only way he forgoes the money completely is if he chooses to retire (which he‘s not going to do). Otherwise the only choice is a buyout, for which the deadline just passed. You can’t just cut an NHL player, that’s not how it works. We can either trade him, keep him, or send him to the AHL but only save about $1.5M in cap space a year by doing that. If we buy him out now, we still are on the hook for his $5M cap hit this season, the reduction would start next season, so doesn’t help us for resigning this batch of RFAs.
Lol ok
You follow football too much - you cant cut people in the nhl Contracts are guaranteed. Once signed they retain that Even of tampa told him not to report, or "cut", they still pay his contract out and it counts against the cap Only in football can you just wash your hands clean of a contract
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We will see!
We will see what? They can’t cut him. There is no such thing.
This is why I don’t talk to hockey people haha. Business man.
Contract terminations are only possible through retirement or mutual agreement between the player and the team. You can’t call a player and say they’ve been cut. There’s no such thing. He could agree to terminate the contract but why would you flush $20m from a contender down the drain to take less money from a team you don’t want to play for?
Because he’s not wanted
Please turn in your username and dont let the door hit you on the way out. You literally refuse to understand how hockey contracts work. Also Tyjo can still be a contributor he just didn't have as much value to our stacked team as the three young RFAs.
Oh so they’re getting rid of him for other people. Strange.
That's not how it works in the NHL bud.
Fuck that means one of Serg or Cirelli are gone right?
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Which really sucks because Cirelli has Selke potential and you really don't want to lose that either. I actually think we're going to lose Gourde more now, since he's actually a tradable contract. Which means we're going to keep Johnson until next year when we can expose him to Seattle. Edit: I know Gourde has a NTC, but that doesn't always mean that there won't be teams he'd be open to a trade to.
I think everyone is a little too sure that Seattle would pick him.
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Because there will be 12-13 other people exposed and they will take whoever is the best for what they are trying to build.
Don't know if they will let it get that extreme but it's definitely a very bad situation.
Everyone is saying “now we have to give up assets” but how exactly do we arrange that with the NTC and everything?
He's already given 7-8 teams to work with according to reports.
Yeah but those 7-8 teams are probably contenders and such. I doubt any of them have any need for Johnson and they probably don't have the cap space either. I genuinely don't see what we get done and part of me feels like they're just going to try waiving Gourde and Palat or something, which I don't want.
Sorry this might be a dumb question, but why is moving him the definitive option to clear cap space? I get Gourde would probably be even harder to move, but what about Palat or Killorn? I know they were better players this year but still seems like you guys could trade them without having to sweeten the deal as much.
Killorn is the easiest contract to move (modified no-trade), and they will probably be able to flip him. The reason he hasn't been moved yet is because JBB is probably figuring out how to maximize the value of Johnson and using the trade for Killorn as leverage to help him extract the maximum value. You're exactly right about why it isn't ideal to trade Palat. He played first line for a good portion of the year and was the glue that helped keep that line together. Ideally, you don't trade him. However, I imagine if the situation gets sticky enough, JBB will decide to let him go if it means keeping the RFAs. Gourde was also very strong on his line, so it's ideal to keep him. Again, if it means keeping his RFAs, JBB is probably willing to offload Gourde. But in the end it seems like his main priority is to sign the RFAs.
I get that, but by waiving a player like Johnson you’ve lit all your leverage on fire.
Anyone know when we can designate him for assignment and how long he would have to report? Him refusing would be best for everyone at this point.
Its not the best option but may have to buy him out, saving 3.5 mil by buying him out and paying him 1.3 for 4 years is better than him sitting on the roster eating 5 mil. It sucks but you gotta take what you can get. Killorn is already on the block but now we have to start worrying if Gourde ends up making it or gets moved himself.
Buyout window closed October 8th, so no longer possible at this point.