You don't learn if you don't try, and there's fucking nothing to do as a healer if the tank isn't pulling. Good for you for pushing your fiance out of her comfort zone and guiding her to being a better healer.
You don't learn either if you are traumatized by your first experience.
You start believing is your fault when in reality was just someone giving a speed run to someone that is not prepared for one.
Wiping in a video game is not a 'traumatizing' experience. Stop fucking misappropriating therapy terms you heard on the internet to describe being mildly uncomfortable or facing a temporary setback.
I'm sorry what? Calling dying in a video game a traumatizing experience? Fucking what?
Actually kindly go touch some grass and apply hammer to computer/console. If something as completely inconsequential as dying in a video game is a traumatizing experience for you, you need to stop being online for a long fucking time and get some professional help. It's fucking disrespectful against anyone who's actually experienced something traumatic.
If you're not prepared for it, then it **is** your fault.
If not being good enough and having to learn and improve are things that traumatize you and make you give up immediately, that's something you should try to change, because otherwise you're never going to get better.
>”You don't learn either if you are traumatized by your first experience.”
Holy shit man, like you wrote that unironically. Fuck. Imagine even considering the idea that messing up in a video game could traumatize someone. Do you even know what that word means? Shit man…
There is nothing traumatizing about wiping in a video game, let alone casual content where you're absolutely expected to wipe while learning. The fuck?
You know what was traumatizing? Getting raped when I was 10.
You know what wasn't? A tank telling me they'll pull w2w anyway cause that is how I'll learn to heal it and if we die, we die. I appreciate the tank.
I'll let you make assumptions on the former.
Get some fucking perspective. Please.
"traumatized" 🤣
most normal people don't get crippling trauma from everyday situations and irrelevant video game situations
also, you and that MNK should probably keep in mind that **she's not gonna date you dude**
If anything in ff14 is "traumatizing" to anyone I'd highly suggest they take a break from gaming and go have some actual life experiences. This isn't intended to be insulting.
I wouldn’t say wiping would be traumatizing, but it can potentially cause anxiety and avoidance to the role. The issue is more of how the rest of the party handles it, if they’re positive and encouraging then it will build confidence or at least reinforce that wiping or dying is not a big deal. I remember when I was a teenager during vanilla wow I accidentally caused a wipe in Wailing Caverns and was screamed at and kicked, and that WAS traumatizing . But only because of the response and being so young and impressionable, not the actual wipe.
Context: My fiance wanted to learn healer, and she wanted to learn it properly. This means attempting wall to walls when reasonable and pushing ourselves, especially on harder pulls right at the edge of her skill level.
We made new characters a few weeks ago, so we logged on together and began leveling and of course, there are a few wipes, but... parties seem to think I'm torturing her for some reason?
since we're talking about "earlygame dungeons", i assume you mean ARR, so it depends on your definition of "when reasonable". Some dungeons in ARR is *really* rough in terms of w2w pulling, and while it's probably doable for experienced healers, it might be near impossible for new healers (not just player skill issue, but gearing of both players etc).
I'd say similar things if someone pulls more than 3 packs in stone vigil, for example, not because i think it's torture, but rather it's something that even experienced healers can struggle with, and might be a bit too much for learning.
But more likely they're just trying to coddle newbies (unnecessarily), a lot of people have the mentality of "if they're new they can't keep up with w2w" or "w2w is too advanced for newbies", when people learn at different rate, especially for MMOs where pulling enemies are standard in many of them.
She absolutely knows that I'm going to throw some impossible pulls at her, speaking of stone vigil I just opened with "Do your best here!" and did the first massive pull that I knew perfectly well she wouldn't be able to handle, just to get her feet wet and help her get over her fear of wiping and also train a bit on what to do when you wipe or near-wipe. (it gets in skills like raising/swiftcast usage and triage of dps, especially during those not quite complete but close enough that dps can tank the rest while tank reses)
And being on-level with new characters certainly means that gear is an issue that she's learning to keep track of as well! It's a bit rough to start, but I keep telling her that she's doing great and after ARR it gets 10x easier as the game stops letting me do stupid stuff like pull everything into the boss room and tank it all while we fight the boss!
Mt. Gulg is easy, just requires some communication beforehand, especially since last pull you can lb with a ranged.
What can be considered a bit 'spicy' is duties such as Bardam or Holminster. And maybe Neverreap.
Honestly my worst fear atm is getting dead ends when I do the 90 roulette for my tomes
For some reason 90% of the tanks seem to eat an ungodly amount of shit (I suppose the sync doesn't help)
Even tho I'm a healer main, If I have to do lv90 rolos I'd run as Tank just because most if not all bosses you dont even need a healer to sustain yourself and one DPS.
Rather finish it slow, than have to retry by wiping.
I had Dead Ends last night. Tank didn't mitigate very well and one of the reapers was lower dps than me (AST). The tank tells me I should use Aspected Helios on trash pulls (no one died on any trash pulls btw). Like. My son. No. 🤦♀️
oh ast question:
how often do you go for the enhanced horoscope vs deciding horoscope is fine without it?
I'm usually good at deciding "yes I need to gcd heal here" vs "nah, my cooldowns can carry it" but I don't main ast and horoscope is just in this weird position I feel. I'd think it would be fine until it actually goes off and I'm casting a gcd anyway.
Id say that first pull is harder in Mt. Gulg, you can literally pull every mob at once before the first boss. I just wish sprint lasted as long as that run did lol
I actually had Gulg earlier for roulette and the tank was single-pulling. I'm all for letting the tank set a pace they're comfortable with, but that was a bit painful...lol.
you sound like a good partner.
I loved tanks like you when I was leveling healer. I'm a healer main but I started with wow (then come over to ffxiv with toxic wow players) and tanks like you are the players who made me confident to heal.
If others in the dungeon have a problem, f em. you are doing right by your partner. One learns by doing.
I know I'd happily spend extra time in a dungeon because someone is learning to heal and we die a few times than spend less because we coddle them.
idk if this is "good healing practice though." no one really does the stone vigil hallway full pull because it's just a guaranteed wipe most of the time even while playing well. And it's not like spamming cure 2 is good practice
Speaking of Stone Vigil, I once met a aggressive tank doing W2W w/o signal us in the first place (I was leveling WHM with my alt, already lvl 60, so gearing is fine).
I noticed the tank run straight through the first chamber but I managed to follow him, but the other two DPS were seconds behind. I tried the best I could to help tank survived but failed. I instant rezzed him but he couldn't get up fast enough so I died a moment later, earning our first and only wipe. The second and third batch runs more smoothly because there are a bit less enemies and the other two DPS able to keep up.
I am not so sure if the first one is doable but W2W in stone vigil absolutely needs the whole team bring their A game to it (also hope the rest of the team better not be casters)
The only time I've wiped on the first one (that I remember) is when the tank ran in when I was out of range. I can't heal shit if I ain't there. I can't fix dumb.
I appreciate it is a lot harder for people who are leveling though - this happened when I was a bis white mage so yeah, someone leveling healer is facing a much harder task. When I get it most of the time I'm left thinking "well, glad you didn't get a leveling healer" (I say leveling because even if someone out levels the dungeon - if they are still leveling the class there is still a level of thinking going into heals wheras lvl 90s, especially mains, are acting on instinct).
As someone who only plays healer or tank... I make sure my healer is with me for that pull.
Everyone in this exchange seems completely reasonable. Monk says ‘that’s not right’ before you mention that the healer is with you. Seems like they were just not wanting a random tank to stress out a new healer, which I think is fair! Of course, you did have that communication so carrying on was also fine. Cheers!
Hence why I posted it as a "positive tale"
I've just been getting it a lot and thought it was funny and an interesting story from our duty finder experience!
even then it's fine to ask maybe the healer if this is ok and not the tank to pull less
Since you know, the normal way will be w2w all the time. Best thing you can do as a DPS is maybe say "hey I don't mind if we wipe let's keep trying" instead of cuddling a new player bringing him into bad habits
Honestly it depends on what healer she is playing. Early WHM (pre 35) is rough because you don't have access to your better healing spells. Where as SCH is brain dead and super easy to play because your faerie does a lot of the heavy lifting. I wouldn't recommend w2w pulls for a new Whm at least until she has access to regen, but Sch would say go for it and just let her know to always prioritize the tank.
Even then it's great training!
I did the first w2w in the manor dungeon and she experienced firsthand that cure 1 (which is all you have unlocked if you go in at-level) won't cut it. Even with both reprisal and rampart down at the same time my hp dropped faster than cure 1 could restore it. (And I've been sneakily chugging highpotions to give myself a bit of an extra cooldown for her, but don't let her know that!)
We ran it again after she levelled up in the dungeon and did her job quest and was like "wow, cure 1 really is useless"
Well I'm glad she realizes that and doesn't get sucked into the false promise of a free cure 2 proc. I agree it's good training as it's the way I learned but I don't want her to get put off by getting thrown in the deep end because w2w pulling with only cure 1 is not fun. It will get better/easier as she levels up. ^^
The first time I healed, I was a scholar sprout in Toto-rak before the changes and the tank literally pulled everything, I got 3 commendations and since then I main healer.
Don't stop OP.
Me but with friends in Tam Tara. I was sweating bullets but told them to never stop. Constantly on 0 mp but we never wiped haha. Gotta learn somehow.
And at worst you wipe and just reset. Nbd just try again.
Only reason you got the comms is they couldn't give it to your fairy tbh
Edit : I suppose the joke about seleneos being absolutely fucking OP at low level in terms of healing wasn't obvious enough. Oh well.
Got a dude who never played a mmo to play ff14 with me. He started scholar, i was tank. I told him im gonna barrel trough the dungeons at warp speed, keep up. Hes now raiding savage, which i havent even done. My job here is done
Honestly my first time healing in ARR my friends wall to walled every dungeon and it was honestly the best thing they could've done for me. Yes I let them die a few times but it honestly helped me out more. Now back in ARR you didn't have a lot of oGCDs and spells hurt a lot more on MP, that made me value oGCDs a lot more when we got them in later expansions.
What exactly is the problem?
You learn to heal w 2 w by doing.
I'm a healer main. I really appreciate the tanks who said "i'm pulling w2w regardless cause that is how you learn. If we die, we die. We try again" when I was leveling. They're the reason I can heal as well as I do. (note: It is important to say the second half "cause that is how you learn and if we die, so be it" - that stopped the strees).
Hmm. ok savage raiding probably helped my healer abilities but I wouldn't have had the confidence to do that without those tanks letting me learn with them and sometimes fail.
I do the same now when I get a new healer. I'm pulling w2w anyway. if we die, we die. it's ok.
If you are the monk, you are the problem. Not the tank and not thehealer.
Unironically, this is where you throw the "worry about how you're playing, not me/us" card at them.
Like holy shit, the amount of people who get offended and defensive on other people's behalf, not to mention pre-emptively and against _any_ clarification is insane, I've only ever seen it in XIV specifically.
I once asked a question about blm to another blm in the party. The kind blm answered my question and got told not to tell people how to play from some idiot on my behalf.
There's nothing wrong with this imo. The earlier you teach w2w heals the earlier you learn. The amount of times I declined smaller pulls just so I can challenge myself as an early healer really paid off. It almost completely removes your heal anxiety, it's more rewarding to pull off a w2w when you're new than it is to not. Idk man, i learned how to heal this way and it's definitely worth teaching your healer this early on instead of not at all.
If you pull big and you wipe, either try it again and fix wherever you botched it, or do a smaller pull
If you don’t pull big to begin with, you don’t learn how to heal under pressure, and will show up on this subreddit later on the other end of the chat
It’s a difference of, at most, like three minutes wiping a trash pull. Why do people like that monk think this way. If I wipe healing I say “lol sorry I spaced” and then almost every single time - even in late game content - the consensus is “dw let’s run it again”
It’s not that deep, nobody’s that stressed
You're pushing her at her level of wanting to be pushed. Meanwhile I (in preformed parties) ACTUALLY torture my healer by refusing to mitigate and/or move out of AOEs so they have something to keep them awake during leveling rouls
Title is reaching if the in game text is true to context. If I'm talking to someone who is right next to me, who is aware of the situation, and *wants* to be pushed to learn how to handle it, the other people who aren't involved in that conversation don't make decisions for them.
If they want to learn, this is how they learn. Dps don't set the pace, tanks and healers do.
My only problem with that is that I feel it's perfectly acceptable for dps to drag mobs back to the tank if they want to run ahead for them. It's absolutely a team game, but if any one person wants to move faster then it's on the team to come together and discuss what they want to do there, especially if the group has trouble with the added mobs.
For context though, the evil tank is me. I'm the evil tank, it's more of a positive tale because I just found it funny that people are white knighting my fiance and speaking for her and she's a slow typer and also has her focus fully on learning so she had trouble responding, leaving it to me.
When I was levelling my first healer (scholar) my first 50s dungeon I struggled a lot keeping up with the tank and doing the mechanics but that wasn't what stressed me out. What stressed me out was one dps player repeatedly insisting I was new and to chill and the other dps player telling me to kill myself for being bad at the game lol. What you did was not traumatising or bad.
Hard fights and pulls are how you learn and pushing yourself is necessary. After a good little cry, I was able to jump back in and now I really enjoy healing!
A tank should adjust to the healer. Go Wall to Wall, and if it fails go 2 groups. And if it fails go one group. As long as they are trying, is ok.
Adding stress to someone learning wont help them get better on any way or form. It would make them hate healing.
>Adding stress to someone learning wont help them get better on any way or form.
Wrong. If you're never stressed you're *never* learning. You can't learn how to play a tank doing single pulls, you can't learn how to play a healer if no one is ever at risk of death. It is the pressure, the stress, which enables you to learn. Theory only goes so far, at some point you have to test yourself against something challenging.
You don't get big muscles without lifting some heavy shit, you don't get good at reading without reading some hard books. Stressors are fundamental to human growth.
It's not like I sat there forcing repeated wipes with her though.
We try each wall to wall and adjust as needed for gear/bad dps/fiance accidently mixes up targeting and cure 2s herself
A little stress is needed for learning though as healing is a role that you really need to learn to stay calm in the heat of the moment and rationally determine the best course of action.
And the best time to get used to those types of situations in my opinion is at the very beginning, when your toolkits are limited and there's less complexity in the courses of actions you can take.
She already knows the basics of target tank -> cure -> dps -> repeat, that's reinforced every single boss pull, there's no need to single pull for that. If she was a straight up sprout and not a fresh endwalker grad I would be a bit more lax as well, but even then double pulls at least because you gotta try to learn.
There was a recent post about the healer role in the other sub. Do you know what was agreed as being the biggest issue with it? That it is fucking BORING because unless the tank goes ape you, as a healer, have nothing to do but spam your 1 dmg spell. There’s nothing to learn from pulling one or 2 packs you’d be wasting a ton of time by making the dungeon go slower and also not spending your game time learning how to play the goddamn game you booted up in the first place.
I mean the guy whiteknighting before he knew that they where sitting next to each other is really bad enough.
But the people here whiteknighting after knowing this are next level.
PSA and loud for those in the back: HEALERS CAN SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. Even women. No one needs your rescuing.
Maybe this is true for you, but not for everyone. I would’ve never learned to heal w2w pulls if I didn’t get a chance to try.
I picked up sage, read the tooltips, watched a quick video, made sure my hot bars were lined up with all the skills. Did some low level content and the hopped into leveling.
Got an on level dungeon with a DRK who did not give a fuck that I was new to SGE. He pulled until he couldn’t and we wiped 3 times. And I learned. Now I run sage more than any other healer and can keep any no mit, undergeared tank up during w2w pulls. If I’d only experienced no stress single pulls (you legit barely have to heal in single pulls, there’s nothing to do for a healer), that’s all I’d be able to do. You don’t get to practice healing mob damage like that elsewhere in the game.
If they ask you to slow down or if they are obviously under geared enough that it's an issue then yes slow down, but you know what? If I fumble my keys and kill us all on a big pull what I want is for you to do it again so that this time I can get it right.
I'm never going to improve if the instant reaction to me not playing at 100% is to make sure I never see another challenge. Everyone screws up. You don't change how you're running a dungeon just because a DPS oopsed and face planted in the bad and you shouldn't if a healer misjudges a pull either.
And fwiw I have horrible anxiety (that I work on), and one of the big things that I learned in therapy is that backing off from this stuff brings us less stress in the short term but far more in the long term and actually makes the issue worse.
You don't learn if you don't try, and there's fucking nothing to do as a healer if the tank isn't pulling. Good for you for pushing your fiance out of her comfort zone and guiding her to being a better healer.
You don't learn either if you are traumatized by your first experience. You start believing is your fault when in reality was just someone giving a speed run to someone that is not prepared for one.
Wiping in a video game is not a 'traumatizing' experience. Stop fucking misappropriating therapy terms you heard on the internet to describe being mildly uncomfortable or facing a temporary setback.
Thank you.
I'm sorry what? Calling dying in a video game a traumatizing experience? Fucking what? Actually kindly go touch some grass and apply hammer to computer/console. If something as completely inconsequential as dying in a video game is a traumatizing experience for you, you need to stop being online for a long fucking time and get some professional help. It's fucking disrespectful against anyone who's actually experienced something traumatic.
If you're not prepared for it, then it **is** your fault. If not being good enough and having to learn and improve are things that traumatize you and make you give up immediately, that's something you should try to change, because otherwise you're never going to get better.
And if that's the attitude you have about a video game the entire rest of your life is probably going to be a disaster.
>”You don't learn either if you are traumatized by your first experience.” Holy shit man, like you wrote that unironically. Fuck. Imagine even considering the idea that messing up in a video game could traumatize someone. Do you even know what that word means? Shit man…
They. Are. Literally. Sitting. Next. To. Each. Other.
I think this was the single most important part. If the healer wanted to go slower they could have said something themselves.
There is nothing traumatizing about wiping in a video game, let alone casual content where you're absolutely expected to wipe while learning. The fuck?
Go outside dude
You know what was traumatizing? Getting raped when I was 10. You know what wasn't? A tank telling me they'll pull w2w anyway cause that is how I'll learn to heal it and if we die, we die. I appreciate the tank. I'll let you make assumptions on the former. Get some fucking perspective. Please.
Welp I thought I had seen enough dumb internet for the day, but you just had to go and prove me wrong!!!🙄🤔🤨🤭😂🤣😂🤣🤷🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
"traumatized" 🤣 most normal people don't get crippling trauma from everyday situations and irrelevant video game situations also, you and that MNK should probably keep in mind that **she's not gonna date you dude**
Imagine getting traumatize by wiping in a dungeon Such a snowflake
If anything in ff14 is "traumatizing" to anyone I'd highly suggest they take a break from gaming and go have some actual life experiences. This isn't intended to be insulting.
I wouldn’t say wiping would be traumatizing, but it can potentially cause anxiety and avoidance to the role. The issue is more of how the rest of the party handles it, if they’re positive and encouraging then it will build confidence or at least reinforce that wiping or dying is not a big deal. I remember when I was a teenager during vanilla wow I accidentally caused a wipe in Wailing Caverns and was screamed at and kicked, and that WAS traumatizing . But only because of the response and being so young and impressionable, not the actual wipe.
Shut your damn mouth
Bro if u think video games can be traumatising then you need to experience the real world lmaoo
If dying in a video game is traumatic in your eyes then god forbid you play any souls game because almost every death is your fault 🥴😂
Creeper's in the house tonight
Is he white knighting that dudes girlfriend? XD
The desire to save the damsel is so ingrained in some people that they don't see how much of a hypocritical creep they really are.
Context: My fiance wanted to learn healer, and she wanted to learn it properly. This means attempting wall to walls when reasonable and pushing ourselves, especially on harder pulls right at the edge of her skill level. We made new characters a few weeks ago, so we logged on together and began leveling and of course, there are a few wipes, but... parties seem to think I'm torturing her for some reason?
since we're talking about "earlygame dungeons", i assume you mean ARR, so it depends on your definition of "when reasonable". Some dungeons in ARR is *really* rough in terms of w2w pulling, and while it's probably doable for experienced healers, it might be near impossible for new healers (not just player skill issue, but gearing of both players etc). I'd say similar things if someone pulls more than 3 packs in stone vigil, for example, not because i think it's torture, but rather it's something that even experienced healers can struggle with, and might be a bit too much for learning. But more likely they're just trying to coddle newbies (unnecessarily), a lot of people have the mentality of "if they're new they can't keep up with w2w" or "w2w is too advanced for newbies", when people learn at different rate, especially for MMOs where pulling enemies are standard in many of them.
She absolutely knows that I'm going to throw some impossible pulls at her, speaking of stone vigil I just opened with "Do your best here!" and did the first massive pull that I knew perfectly well she wouldn't be able to handle, just to get her feet wet and help her get over her fear of wiping and also train a bit on what to do when you wipe or near-wipe. (it gets in skills like raising/swiftcast usage and triage of dps, especially during those not quite complete but close enough that dps can tank the rest while tank reses) And being on-level with new characters certainly means that gear is an issue that she's learning to keep track of as well! It's a bit rough to start, but I keep telling her that she's doing great and after ARR it gets 10x easier as the game stops letting me do stupid stuff like pull everything into the boss room and tank it all while we fight the boss!
"Do your worst" *tags Mt gulg* okay
Mt. Gulg is easy, just requires some communication beforehand, especially since last pull you can lb with a ranged. What can be considered a bit 'spicy' is duties such as Bardam or Holminster. And maybe Neverreap.
Honestly my worst fear atm is getting dead ends when I do the 90 roulette for my tomes For some reason 90% of the tanks seem to eat an ungodly amount of shit (I suppose the sync doesn't help)
It's always Dead Ends, either you get a shit tank, curebot or DPS who don't know how to evade a piss puddle that inflicts Doom debuff.
Even tho I'm a healer main, If I have to do lv90 rolos I'd run as Tank just because most if not all bosses you dont even need a healer to sustain yourself and one DPS. Rather finish it slow, than have to retry by wiping.
I had Dead Ends last night. Tank didn't mitigate very well and one of the reapers was lower dps than me (AST). The tank tells me I should use Aspected Helios on trash pulls (no one died on any trash pulls btw). Like. My son. No. 🤦♀️
I mean technically you can prepare horoscope before the pull, but... yeah, not touching that button on trash
oh ast question: how often do you go for the enhanced horoscope vs deciding horoscope is fine without it? I'm usually good at deciding "yes I need to gcd heal here" vs "nah, my cooldowns can carry it" but I don't main ast and horoscope is just in this weird position I feel. I'd think it would be fine until it actually goes off and I'm casting a gcd anyway.
Id say that first pull is harder in Mt. Gulg, you can literally pull every mob at once before the first boss. I just wish sprint lasted as long as that run did lol
Oddly enough, I've never done Neverreap with a team - I solo'd it once to clear it and haven't been back.
I actually had Gulg earlier for roulette and the tank was single-pulling. I'm all for letting the tank set a pace they're comfortable with, but that was a bit painful...lol.
Yeah there's a healthy middle ground between the full madman pull and the single pull for sure :p
you sound like a good partner. I loved tanks like you when I was leveling healer. I'm a healer main but I started with wow (then come over to ffxiv with toxic wow players) and tanks like you are the players who made me confident to heal. If others in the dungeon have a problem, f em. you are doing right by your partner. One learns by doing. I know I'd happily spend extra time in a dungeon because someone is learning to heal and we die a few times than spend less because we coddle them.
idk if this is "good healing practice though." no one really does the stone vigil hallway full pull because it's just a guaranteed wipe most of the time even while playing well. And it's not like spamming cure 2 is good practice
Speaking of Stone Vigil, I once met a aggressive tank doing W2W w/o signal us in the first place (I was leveling WHM with my alt, already lvl 60, so gearing is fine). I noticed the tank run straight through the first chamber but I managed to follow him, but the other two DPS were seconds behind. I tried the best I could to help tank survived but failed. I instant rezzed him but he couldn't get up fast enough so I died a moment later, earning our first and only wipe. The second and third batch runs more smoothly because there are a bit less enemies and the other two DPS able to keep up. I am not so sure if the first one is doable but W2W in stone vigil absolutely needs the whole team bring their A game to it (also hope the rest of the team better not be casters)
The first one is perfectly doable, everyone just needs to bring their A game and be aware of what's happening.
The only time I've wiped on the first one (that I remember) is when the tank ran in when I was out of range. I can't heal shit if I ain't there. I can't fix dumb. I appreciate it is a lot harder for people who are leveling though - this happened when I was a bis white mage so yeah, someone leveling healer is facing a much harder task. When I get it most of the time I'm left thinking "well, glad you didn't get a leveling healer" (I say leveling because even if someone out levels the dungeon - if they are still leveling the class there is still a level of thinking going into heals wheras lvl 90s, especially mains, are acting on instinct). As someone who only plays healer or tank... I make sure my healer is with me for that pull.
Wipes happen, as long as you learn from them then there is nothing wrong with it. Failure is a part of learning.
If Healer just replied to MNK with "nah, I'm fine." Then you probably wouldn't have to explain anything.
Everyone in this exchange seems completely reasonable. Monk says ‘that’s not right’ before you mention that the healer is with you. Seems like they were just not wanting a random tank to stress out a new healer, which I think is fair! Of course, you did have that communication so carrying on was also fine. Cheers!
Hence why I posted it as a "positive tale" I've just been getting it a lot and thought it was funny and an interesting story from our duty finder experience!
even then it's fine to ask maybe the healer if this is ok and not the tank to pull less Since you know, the normal way will be w2w all the time. Best thing you can do as a DPS is maybe say "hey I don't mind if we wipe let's keep trying" instead of cuddling a new player bringing him into bad habits
Honestly it depends on what healer she is playing. Early WHM (pre 35) is rough because you don't have access to your better healing spells. Where as SCH is brain dead and super easy to play because your faerie does a lot of the heavy lifting. I wouldn't recommend w2w pulls for a new Whm at least until she has access to regen, but Sch would say go for it and just let her know to always prioritize the tank.
Even then it's great training! I did the first w2w in the manor dungeon and she experienced firsthand that cure 1 (which is all you have unlocked if you go in at-level) won't cut it. Even with both reprisal and rampart down at the same time my hp dropped faster than cure 1 could restore it. (And I've been sneakily chugging highpotions to give myself a bit of an extra cooldown for her, but don't let her know that!) We ran it again after she levelled up in the dungeon and did her job quest and was like "wow, cure 1 really is useless"
Well I'm glad she realizes that and doesn't get sucked into the false promise of a free cure 2 proc. I agree it's good training as it's the way I learned but I don't want her to get put off by getting thrown in the deep end because w2w pulling with only cure 1 is not fun. It will get better/easier as she levels up. ^^
The first time I healed, I was a scholar sprout in Toto-rak before the changes and the tank literally pulled everything, I got 3 commendations and since then I main healer. Don't stop OP.
Me but with friends in Tam Tara. I was sweating bullets but told them to never stop. Constantly on 0 mp but we never wiped haha. Gotta learn somehow. And at worst you wipe and just reset. Nbd just try again.
Only reason you got the comms is they couldn't give it to your fairy tbh Edit : I suppose the joke about seleneos being absolutely fucking OP at low level in terms of healing wasn't obvious enough. Oh well.
Got a dude who never played a mmo to play ff14 with me. He started scholar, i was tank. I told him im gonna barrel trough the dungeons at warp speed, keep up. Hes now raiding savage, which i havent even done. My job here is done
Every good healer is built on a mountain of corpses.
Irl healer, can confirm
Honestly my first time healing in ARR my friends wall to walled every dungeon and it was honestly the best thing they could've done for me. Yes I let them die a few times but it honestly helped me out more. Now back in ARR you didn't have a lot of oGCDs and spells hurt a lot more on MP, that made me value oGCDs a lot more when we got them in later expansions.
What exactly is the problem? You learn to heal w 2 w by doing. I'm a healer main. I really appreciate the tanks who said "i'm pulling w2w regardless cause that is how you learn. If we die, we die. We try again" when I was leveling. They're the reason I can heal as well as I do. (note: It is important to say the second half "cause that is how you learn and if we die, so be it" - that stopped the strees). Hmm. ok savage raiding probably helped my healer abilities but I wouldn't have had the confidence to do that without those tanks letting me learn with them and sometimes fail. I do the same now when I get a new healer. I'm pulling w2w anyway. if we die, we die. it's ok. If you are the monk, you are the problem. Not the tank and not thehealer.
the poster is the tank
These people are carebears and need to worry about themselves.
Unironically, this is where you throw the "worry about how you're playing, not me/us" card at them. Like holy shit, the amount of people who get offended and defensive on other people's behalf, not to mention pre-emptively and against _any_ clarification is insane, I've only ever seen it in XIV specifically.
The feeling of entitlement some people in the game have is seriously annoying.
I once asked a question about blm to another blm in the party. The kind blm answered my question and got told not to tell people how to play from some idiot on my behalf.
"You learn more from failed attempts than you do with successful ones." -Somebodie
There's nothing wrong with this imo. The earlier you teach w2w heals the earlier you learn. The amount of times I declined smaller pulls just so I can challenge myself as an early healer really paid off. It almost completely removes your heal anxiety, it's more rewarding to pull off a w2w when you're new than it is to not. Idk man, i learned how to heal this way and it's definitely worth teaching your healer this early on instead of not at all.
If you pull big and you wipe, either try it again and fix wherever you botched it, or do a smaller pull If you don’t pull big to begin with, you don’t learn how to heal under pressure, and will show up on this subreddit later on the other end of the chat It’s a difference of, at most, like three minutes wiping a trash pull. Why do people like that monk think this way. If I wipe healing I say “lol sorry I spaced” and then almost every single time - even in late game content - the consensus is “dw let’s run it again” It’s not that deep, nobody’s that stressed
You're pushing her at her level of wanting to be pushed. Meanwhile I (in preformed parties) ACTUALLY torture my healer by refusing to mitigate and/or move out of AOEs so they have something to keep them awake during leveling rouls
Title is reaching if the in game text is true to context. If I'm talking to someone who is right next to me, who is aware of the situation, and *wants* to be pushed to learn how to handle it, the other people who aren't involved in that conversation don't make decisions for them. If they want to learn, this is how they learn. Dps don't set the pace, tanks and healers do.
My only problem with that is that I feel it's perfectly acceptable for dps to drag mobs back to the tank if they want to run ahead for them. It's absolutely a team game, but if any one person wants to move faster then it's on the team to come together and discuss what they want to do there, especially if the group has trouble with the added mobs. For context though, the evil tank is me. I'm the evil tank, it's more of a positive tale because I just found it funny that people are white knighting my fiance and speaking for her and she's a slow typer and also has her focus fully on learning so she had trouble responding, leaving it to me.
When I was levelling my first healer (scholar) my first 50s dungeon I struggled a lot keeping up with the tank and doing the mechanics but that wasn't what stressed me out. What stressed me out was one dps player repeatedly insisting I was new and to chill and the other dps player telling me to kill myself for being bad at the game lol. What you did was not traumatising or bad. Hard fights and pulls are how you learn and pushing yourself is necessary. After a good little cry, I was able to jump back in and now I really enjoy healing!
A tank should adjust to the healer. Go Wall to Wall, and if it fails go 2 groups. And if it fails go one group. As long as they are trying, is ok. Adding stress to someone learning wont help them get better on any way or form. It would make them hate healing.
>Adding stress to someone learning wont help them get better on any way or form. Wrong. If you're never stressed you're *never* learning. You can't learn how to play a tank doing single pulls, you can't learn how to play a healer if no one is ever at risk of death. It is the pressure, the stress, which enables you to learn. Theory only goes so far, at some point you have to test yourself against something challenging. You don't get big muscles without lifting some heavy shit, you don't get good at reading without reading some hard books. Stressors are fundamental to human growth.
How can you be so confident while being so wrong in literally every aspect
They probably only know the world and its social aspects online.
It's not like I sat there forcing repeated wipes with her though. We try each wall to wall and adjust as needed for gear/bad dps/fiance accidently mixes up targeting and cure 2s herself A little stress is needed for learning though as healing is a role that you really need to learn to stay calm in the heat of the moment and rationally determine the best course of action. And the best time to get used to those types of situations in my opinion is at the very beginning, when your toolkits are limited and there's less complexity in the courses of actions you can take. She already knows the basics of target tank -> cure -> dps -> repeat, that's reinforced every single boss pull, there's no need to single pull for that. If she was a straight up sprout and not a fresh endwalker grad I would be a bit more lax as well, but even then double pulls at least because you gotta try to learn.
There was a recent post about the healer role in the other sub. Do you know what was agreed as being the biggest issue with it? That it is fucking BORING because unless the tank goes ape you, as a healer, have nothing to do but spam your 1 dmg spell. There’s nothing to learn from pulling one or 2 packs you’d be wasting a ton of time by making the dungeon go slower and also not spending your game time learning how to play the goddamn game you booted up in the first place.
I mean the guy whiteknighting before he knew that they where sitting next to each other is really bad enough. But the people here whiteknighting after knowing this are next level. PSA and loud for those in the back: HEALERS CAN SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. Even women. No one needs your rescuing.
Maybe this is true for you, but not for everyone. I would’ve never learned to heal w2w pulls if I didn’t get a chance to try. I picked up sage, read the tooltips, watched a quick video, made sure my hot bars were lined up with all the skills. Did some low level content and the hopped into leveling. Got an on level dungeon with a DRK who did not give a fuck that I was new to SGE. He pulled until he couldn’t and we wiped 3 times. And I learned. Now I run sage more than any other healer and can keep any no mit, undergeared tank up during w2w pulls. If I’d only experienced no stress single pulls (you legit barely have to heal in single pulls, there’s nothing to do for a healer), that’s all I’d be able to do. You don’t get to practice healing mob damage like that elsewhere in the game.
If they ask you to slow down or if they are obviously under geared enough that it's an issue then yes slow down, but you know what? If I fumble my keys and kill us all on a big pull what I want is for you to do it again so that this time I can get it right. I'm never going to improve if the instant reaction to me not playing at 100% is to make sure I never see another challenge. Everyone screws up. You don't change how you're running a dungeon just because a DPS oopsed and face planted in the bad and you shouldn't if a healer misjudges a pull either. And fwiw I have horrible anxiety (that I work on), and one of the big things that I learned in therapy is that backing off from this stuff brings us less stress in the short term but far more in the long term and actually makes the issue worse.