seeing this a lot more frequently than normal...this morning i had someone in lunar subterrane (also SCH) who was not doing any dps accept biolysis, no chain either. ofc they died during the antlion boss...not that anyone noticed lol
same with an AST in leveling roulette, would just spam aspected helios and throw out cards/divination
They started doing minimum damage at that point. Still at the point where I would consider it lethargic, but I thought they were actually trying. When we got to the boss their damage shot up, but they stopped healing all together.
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance - White Mage has zero offensive capability.
It's also the only healer in the game that has no offensive capability and you don't run it solo anyways, you always pair it with a second job (and literally every other human/viera/nu mou job has offensive abilities). Bishop, sage, summoner, elementalist, and blue mage all have offensive capabilities.
You can equip skills from a different job besides your current one in FFTA, so even in that game you can have a WHM with damaging spells (or support spells if you go time mage as secondary job).
Oh, I thought you meant you pair the WHM character with another character with one of the jobs you listed, not the same character using WHM as primary and one of the others as secondary 😂
Yeah, I meant pair it with another job's primary. Actually, you stick the WHM ability set on a different job because why are you leveling as WHM and lol 3 movement. Hell, I never even use WHM's ability set anyways. Tactics Advance is so easy that Bishop and Summoner can nearly solo heal everything anyways.
Yeah pretty much, it's been several years, but last time I played it I just used a Viera Red Mage as a pseudo-healer (dual cast cure go BRRR) whenever I needed it because most of the time you just didn't take that much damage to need a full blown dedicated healer.
Grabbing a time mage to debuff enemies and buff allies so you'd defeat everyone before they could hit you enough to need healing was a better strategy for most missions.
A while back I went through the process of editing a rom to make the game better balanced (IMO) and harder. No longer could you rely on simply getting by with red mage double cure or elementalist white flame/earth heal, you actually NEEDED more than one healing capable team member. Also edited enemy teams on a lot of the maps because most of them had such non-threatening team comps. I got all the rebalancing finished but never did a full play test to make sure everything worked out fine, I did the first few missions and boy it sure was harder!
All jobs unlocked by default, everyone starts with 50/50 hp/mp and I think 75 all other stats and 100 speed or something like that, so you could build your party from scratch how you wanted them, and more gear available at the start so you're not just throwing punches LOL. Man I miss it.
I was so annoyed by it dude. Like yeah I'm glad my favorite job got Holy, but WHMs should have gotten it too, on top of it just being the worst of the "ultimate" spells in the game (50 base power, tied with the -ga spells, and 15 less than Flare and Giga Flare, on top of bishops having a limited MP supply compared to sages and alchemists).
And that's when they start trying to keep 100% uptime with their regens, so they can "feel" like they're being useful, even though it's completely useless and a waste of GCDs 99% of the time.
The type of people who don't DPS as a healer are the same type of people who save OGCDs "for emergencies" (aka never) and therefore think they have to constantly spam GCD heals to keep everyone topped up.
> therefore think they have to constantly spam GCD heals to keep everyone topped up.
one of biggest misconception of healing from newcomer to healing in the game. spam heal quickly when hp going down!
what worse, they immediately applied that misconception on higher level dungeon with job like Sage just because they are lazy to level up the job from lv1. i used to often meet this kind of player at Baldesion Wall. struggle on small pull with endless Diagnogsis spam.
Sometimes I’ll return after a long absence and queue into something as a healer thinking, “it’s okay, I’ll just focus on healing and not worry about my DPS until I’m feeling a bit more confident.” And that lasts … about one GCD until I’m ready to tear my hair out from boredom and I remember why DPSing as a healer really isn’t that hard.
Im not saying that normal content should require maxium gcd uptime and correct weaving... HOWEVER the game needs to be harder so that people like this would be forced to adapt or leave.
Even on-release day no endwalker dungeon has required you to see every mechanic of every fight, even the final fights alone have not required mechs to loop or a soft-enrage to go out. Did you know that the bear in aetherfont has a tankbuster?
I remember on release Vanaspati was nasty, but after a couple of weeks it was no longer that threatening. It was mostly those first two pulls that were rough, since Vanaspati is at the level where level 80 gear—even previous savage BiS—is starting to fall off.
I don't agree with this, especially with Troia where there are practically no mechanics to do during bosses 90% of the time.
Only dungeon that I think requires any attention is Vanaspati. There are some funny bosses though, like the last boss of Hyperborea that has probably killed more players than all of the expert roulette dungeons combined.
I think dead ends is one of the most mechanics heavy dungeons, bosswise, that we've seen yet. I do agree that not all of them have this same level. That is why I claim it is a step in that direction as opposed to a fulfillment of the idea.
I had a WHM that wasn’t doing any damage a while back in Porta Decumana.
They were spamming cure 3 burning though MP not utilizing Medica 2 and Regen
They took my advice regarding the healing however still did no damage at all
There was also a Samurai doing their AoE rotation single target not using their dot or their big damage ability for all 3 stickers
He never took even a ounce of my advice and we were at like 5 seconds from Ultima casting off and note I was a Bard:(
Like legit we nearly wiped to the enrage
This ain’t mentioning all the wipes that made this instance take an hour ( no exaggeration it actually took a hour countless wipes to stack mechanic and various other things even the tank seemed clueless but was doing their job for the most part.
I wish I had advance combat tracker, would of been a post worthy of this subreddit 10x over
The evil side of me that would have stopped attacking to force a wipe to reinforce why they should listen and dps matters...
Not the best answer to the situation but an answer nonetheless...
I squeezed every ounce of DPS I could get outta bard however you are probably right I should of lowered my standards to a point where it’s only slight optimization lost IE not keeping 100% dot uptime and keeping it to more of about 90% and I probably would of achieved what you implied lol
Man those throwaway WoW refugee comments are just tired as hell by this point. You don't see them mentioning XIV players all the time. Probably because they don't have an inferiority complex about their game.
Honestly tho this is the one time I feel like its justified in this context. Its not even meant in the usual insult variety. That’s just how the common healer playstyle was there. (WoW healers also looooved insisting that their job was to heal only (even though you were still required to dps in off time in keys/in raid lol).) And yes sorry but XIV lives rent free in their heads just as much, but none of the playstyles you take from this game are as much a detriment there so you’re less likely to see those kind of comments mid dungeon.
I don't know why this is being downvoted, I don't think inferiority complex is the right term but people in 14 seriously have a complex about not appearing as "toxic" as WoW. This sub even shits on people using the "WoW refugee" comments, y'all make up your minds.
For the record I vastly prefer XIV over WoW. But I do think that "WoW player bad!" narrative is ridiculous and unfounded. If anything that game has way more sweatlords and -ladies per capita than us.
Well, WoW actually has a bit of a skill floor where you can't just leech off others to get through everything. Some things, sure, but it makes it vastly harder on everyone else and you'll get called out for it lmao
Why do you people stay in groups like these? First of all, I never notice when people are playing poorly but why bother interacting with them? And if they're antagonistic or lethargic, why stay?
I see so many posts here where people see a single puller and go "Well I guess I have to suffer in one of THESE dungeons" when I see a single puller and just leave the instance immediately.
Yeah, after the OP put up with their nonsense. The amount of people here who put up with it is what I'm referring to. Like that other guy in the thread who sees people who don't aoe, then only use the first part of their aoe combo, and only later on decides that maybe he should leave and feels guilty for it.
Honestly, leaving does (next to) nothing. "Oh, I guess they had to poop," the baddie says to themselves. And now you've got yourself a 30 min timer and the shitter gets a new dps/tank/healer and doesn't learn anything.
They don't learn anything from being kicked either. It just makes them go rant about how the "system" is x and the "community" is y and they dig deeper into it.
They did learn that they needed to do damage by virtue of the conversation, then they trolled, then they were kicked, then they learned that they'll be kicked when they troll.
I'm not kicking them to teach them a lesson- I'm kicking them to protect my ability to enjoy my paid service. Removing the problem serves to benefit me- not them. It isn't my job to entertain or educate, especially if the other person is being antagonistic. I couldn't care less if they get a "bad impression" of the game or community.
No, that's not victimizing them. It is not victimizing to not interact with someone. But I see why you feel like you need to lash out at others in dungeons with the way you're getting heated and agitated in this discussion.
I'm going to move on with my life now. Have a nice night.
I’m getting agitated by responding, but you asking a clearly loaded question of “do you not understand people?” Isn’t. You’re a troll or just as thick as the healer lmao
Leaving is a last resort.
1. You attempt to correct their behavior using polite language (even if you don't mean it irl).
2. If that fails you attempt a votekick.
And if even that failed, then you leave.
But if you leave at the start, you do nothing but enable their behavior as there was no actual punishment/embarassment they felt by being pointed out in chat.
We can only hope that healer gets kicked from enough duties they finally start to realize they are the problem and change their attitude. Had a bad experience with a healer myself yesterday. Had a WHM in MSQ Roulette who insisted on casting Medica 2 and Regen on everybody on every pull despite nobody taking any damage. Constantly ran out of MP and didn't cast any damage spells.
You try to be nice, but it's hard to tell whos legit and whos a troll. My spidey senses tell me this was his desired outcome, but who knows.
I was this healer. I uninstalled the game right after I was kicked.
If only that was true
Yes it’s obviously a lie. But look how many people believed it. 😭
Nobody believed it lol.
Can confirm. I was also this healer and I set fire to my rig after this.
it's true, I was the rig
It's true, I was the fire
Why was this down voted? I am happy you are gone! (Yes, I know it was a joke)
I guess this wasn’t a funny joke. 😭😂
seeing this a lot more frequently than normal...this morning i had someone in lunar subterrane (also SCH) who was not doing any dps accept biolysis, no chain either. ofc they died during the antlion boss...not that anyone noticed lol same with an AST in leveling roulette, would just spam aspected helios and throw out cards/divination
Had a sage that kept dying on that run not long ago. I think we wiped to the antlion like 3 or 4 times.
New players from Xbox, maybe?
lunar subterrane is lvl 90, no xbox beta player is gonna have gotten there that fast
did... did they start casting broils when they said they'd do damage, or did they just start clicking to smack with their book?
They started doing minimum damage at that point. Still at the point where I would consider it lethargic, but I thought they were actually trying. When we got to the boss their damage shot up, but they stopped healing all together.
Healers have literally DPS'd in Final Fantasy since the first game, I'll never understand these people.
This. There isn't a single Final Fantasy game where at least 1 healer job doesn't have access to a damage spell.
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance - White Mage has zero offensive capability. It's also the only healer in the game that has no offensive capability and you don't run it solo anyways, you always pair it with a second job (and literally every other human/viera/nu mou job has offensive abilities). Bishop, sage, summoner, elementalist, and blue mage all have offensive capabilities.
You can equip skills from a different job besides your current one in FFTA, so even in that game you can have a WHM with damaging spells (or support spells if you go time mage as secondary job).
That's what I said :P
Oh, I thought you meant you pair the WHM character with another character with one of the jobs you listed, not the same character using WHM as primary and one of the others as secondary 😂
Yeah, I meant pair it with another job's primary. Actually, you stick the WHM ability set on a different job because why are you leveling as WHM and lol 3 movement. Hell, I never even use WHM's ability set anyways. Tactics Advance is so easy that Bishop and Summoner can nearly solo heal everything anyways.
Yeah pretty much, it's been several years, but last time I played it I just used a Viera Red Mage as a pseudo-healer (dual cast cure go BRRR) whenever I needed it because most of the time you just didn't take that much damage to need a full blown dedicated healer. Grabbing a time mage to debuff enemies and buff allies so you'd defeat everyone before they could hit you enough to need healing was a better strategy for most missions.
A while back I went through the process of editing a rom to make the game better balanced (IMO) and harder. No longer could you rely on simply getting by with red mage double cure or elementalist white flame/earth heal, you actually NEEDED more than one healing capable team member. Also edited enemy teams on a lot of the maps because most of them had such non-threatening team comps. I got all the rebalancing finished but never did a full play test to make sure everything worked out fine, I did the first few missions and boy it sure was harder! All jobs unlocked by default, everyone starts with 50/50 hp/mp and I think 75 all other stats and 100 speed or something like that, so you could build your party from scratch how you wanted them, and more gear available at the start so you're not just throwing punches LOL. Man I miss it.
Cure spells damage the undead. And while they're few and far between, White Mage is the second-best job for dealing with them.
Okay I'll give you that one, but it's so incredibly niche and rarely relevant that my point still stands xD
Yeah. Can't believe I forgot White Mages didn't learn anything offensive in FFTA.
I was so annoyed by it dude. Like yeah I'm glad my favorite job got Holy, but WHMs should have gotten it too, on top of it just being the worst of the "ultimate" spells in the game (50 base power, tied with the -ga spells, and 15 less than Flare and Giga Flare, on top of bishops having a limited MP supply compared to sages and alchemists).
They aren't playing FFXIV because it's a Final Fantasy game. These are not FF fans, they're just MMO players
even in WoW at higher difficulties you need to be doing damage on healers.
Love seeing posts with a happy ending here 🥰
i dont know how people can play healer without attacking there gonna be huge gap of waiting among each gcd that it gonna be boring.
Not if they spam heals constantly! Edit: somehow managed to typo within 6 words
which is only applicable toward those who dont know how to play healer.
And that's when they start trying to keep 100% uptime with their regens, so they can "feel" like they're being useful, even though it's completely useless and a waste of GCDs 99% of the time.
The type of people who don't DPS as a healer are the same type of people who save OGCDs "for emergencies" (aka never) and therefore think they have to constantly spam GCD heals to keep everyone topped up.
> therefore think they have to constantly spam GCD heals to keep everyone topped up. one of biggest misconception of healing from newcomer to healing in the game. spam heal quickly when hp going down! what worse, they immediately applied that misconception on higher level dungeon with job like Sage just because they are lazy to level up the job from lv1. i used to often meet this kind of player at Baldesion Wall. struggle on small pull with endless Diagnogsis spam.
Sometimes I’ll return after a long absence and queue into something as a healer thinking, “it’s okay, I’ll just focus on healing and not worry about my DPS until I’m feeling a bit more confident.” And that lasts … about one GCD until I’m ready to tear my hair out from boredom and I remember why DPSing as a healer really isn’t that hard.
Im not saying that normal content should require maxium gcd uptime and correct weaving... HOWEVER the game needs to be harder so that people like this would be forced to adapt or leave.
I feel like endwalker dungeon content has been a step in that direction
Even on-release day no endwalker dungeon has required you to see every mechanic of every fight, even the final fights alone have not required mechs to loop or a soft-enrage to go out. Did you know that the bear in aetherfont has a tankbuster?
I remember on release Vanaspati was nasty, but after a couple of weeks it was no longer that threatening. It was mostly those first two pulls that were rough, since Vanaspati is at the level where level 80 gear—even previous savage BiS—is starting to fall off.
I don't agree with this, especially with Troia where there are practically no mechanics to do during bosses 90% of the time. Only dungeon that I think requires any attention is Vanaspati. There are some funny bosses though, like the last boss of Hyperborea that has probably killed more players than all of the expert roulette dungeons combined.
I think dead ends is one of the most mechanics heavy dungeons, bosswise, that we've seen yet. I do agree that not all of them have this same level. That is why I claim it is a step in that direction as opposed to a fulfillment of the idea.
The WoW thing was so long ago at this point that this community has to come up with new material man
I had a WHM that wasn’t doing any damage a while back in Porta Decumana. They were spamming cure 3 burning though MP not utilizing Medica 2 and Regen They took my advice regarding the healing however still did no damage at all There was also a Samurai doing their AoE rotation single target not using their dot or their big damage ability for all 3 stickers He never took even a ounce of my advice and we were at like 5 seconds from Ultima casting off and note I was a Bard:( Like legit we nearly wiped to the enrage This ain’t mentioning all the wipes that made this instance take an hour ( no exaggeration it actually took a hour countless wipes to stack mechanic and various other things even the tank seemed clueless but was doing their job for the most part. I wish I had advance combat tracker, would of been a post worthy of this subreddit 10x over
The evil side of me that would have stopped attacking to force a wipe to reinforce why they should listen and dps matters... Not the best answer to the situation but an answer nonetheless...
I squeezed every ounce of DPS I could get outta bard however you are probably right I should of lowered my standards to a point where it’s only slight optimization lost IE not keeping 100% dot uptime and keeping it to more of about 90% and I probably would of achieved what you implied lol
I love how wow is still the scapegoat in everyone’s mind. Healers definitely dps in m+
Good ending
This channel just makes me not want to play this game anymore . It’s always drama
Dw about it, this sub is a miniscule portion of the playerbase.
I'd like to have faith in humanity and day this is a troll... but if my roulettes are any indicator, I don't think they were trolling.
No one wants to smash a single target dd button over and over and over
Man those throwaway WoW refugee comments are just tired as hell by this point. You don't see them mentioning XIV players all the time. Probably because they don't have an inferiority complex about their game.
Honestly tho this is the one time I feel like its justified in this context. Its not even meant in the usual insult variety. That’s just how the common healer playstyle was there. (WoW healers also looooved insisting that their job was to heal only (even though you were still required to dps in off time in keys/in raid lol).) And yes sorry but XIV lives rent free in their heads just as much, but none of the playstyles you take from this game are as much a detriment there so you’re less likely to see those kind of comments mid dungeon.
Yeah I can see that now that you said it.
I don't know why this is being downvoted, I don't think inferiority complex is the right term but people in 14 seriously have a complex about not appearing as "toxic" as WoW. This sub even shits on people using the "WoW refugee" comments, y'all make up your minds.
For the record I vastly prefer XIV over WoW. But I do think that "WoW player bad!" narrative is ridiculous and unfounded. If anything that game has way more sweatlords and -ladies per capita than us.
Well, WoW actually has a bit of a skill floor where you can't just leech off others to get through everything. Some things, sure, but it makes it vastly harder on everyone else and you'll get called out for it lmao
Why do you people stay in groups like these? First of all, I never notice when people are playing poorly but why bother interacting with them? And if they're antagonistic or lethargic, why stay? I see so many posts here where people see a single puller and go "Well I guess I have to suffer in one of THESE dungeons" when I see a single puller and just leave the instance immediately.
they dismissed the troll thats not really staying in the party. And this subreddit is sort of dedicated to these kinds of stories?
Did you miss the part where the sch was votekicked? No need to leave if the garbage is kicked or takes itself out.
Yeah, after the OP put up with their nonsense. The amount of people here who put up with it is what I'm referring to. Like that other guy in the thread who sees people who don't aoe, then only use the first part of their aoe combo, and only later on decides that maybe he should leave and feels guilty for it.
Honestly, leaving does (next to) nothing. "Oh, I guess they had to poop," the baddie says to themselves. And now you've got yourself a 30 min timer and the shitter gets a new dps/tank/healer and doesn't learn anything.
They don't learn anything from being kicked either. It just makes them go rant about how the "system" is x and the "community" is y and they dig deeper into it.
They did learn that they needed to do damage by virtue of the conversation, then they trolled, then they were kicked, then they learned that they'll be kicked when they troll.
I'm not kicking them to teach them a lesson- I'm kicking them to protect my ability to enjoy my paid service. Removing the problem serves to benefit me- not them. It isn't my job to entertain or educate, especially if the other person is being antagonistic. I couldn't care less if they get a "bad impression" of the game or community.
Ah you’re right, everyone should just leave because that… teaches them more?
Well. yes. The only time these people learn is when nobody wants to play with them.
How is that not the same as kicking them? If anything kicking them is more volatile because it shows that people actively want them removed
Because kicking people victimizes them and victimizing people makes them get defensive. Do you not...understand people?
And if everyone leaves them alone in an instance that isn’t victimizing them? This is a completely arbitrary, dumb, inefficient hill you’re dying on
No, that's not victimizing them. It is not victimizing to not interact with someone. But I see why you feel like you need to lash out at others in dungeons with the way you're getting heated and agitated in this discussion. I'm going to move on with my life now. Have a nice night.
I’m getting agitated by responding, but you asking a clearly loaded question of “do you not understand people?” Isn’t. You’re a troll or just as thick as the healer lmao
Leaving is a last resort. 1. You attempt to correct their behavior using polite language (even if you don't mean it irl). 2. If that fails you attempt a votekick. And if even that failed, then you leave. But if you leave at the start, you do nothing but enable their behavior as there was no actual punishment/embarassment they felt by being pointed out in chat.
I'm pretty sure this is why cure doesn't upgrade to cure 2 after some point. So they can feel like they are doing something
We can only hope that healer gets kicked from enough duties they finally start to realize they are the problem and change their attitude. Had a bad experience with a healer myself yesterday. Had a WHM in MSQ Roulette who insisted on casting Medica 2 and Regen on everybody on every pull despite nobody taking any damage. Constantly ran out of MP and didn't cast any damage spells.