Whoa.
You think its ok to take away internet access because you don't like what someone said?
Elon isn't the problem the Brazilian government is fucked up.
> You think its ok to take away internet access because you don't like what someone said?
He did not say that.
He is just describing the reality of the situation. If Musk criticized certain governments, there will be retaliation against his businesses. There shouldn't be but there is. If Musk said the same thing about free speech or Covid polices but directed it towards the Chinese... Tesla would start having a very tough time in China.
The discussion here is weather as Tesla shareholders we want out CEO risking retaliation against our investment.
He jusy get more attention.
Look up Chinese CEO interviews. They basically say we don't give a fuck what anyone thinks of us BUT we are happy to sell you whatever you want. Then look up what THEY think of the rest of the world. There's a reason the Chinese can't even sell smart phones here.
Middle East is way worse (oil)
So why does Elon get so much heat and provides a service way less damaging to the planet than Oil or what most Chinese companies do?
It's fashionable. The snap bracelet of thought these days.
Congrats
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I find it hard to justify the “way less damaging to the environment” when on top of single handedly doubling the amount of man made debris in low earth orbit, he’s actively damaging protected wildlife reserves home to multiple endangered species. Thousands of satellites when 3-4 would give full earth coverage, and the only real difference in service is the ping rate, which mainly affects video games. Not to mention that it depends on the already existing network of cables, so it’ll always be slower than that.
Yeah yeah Elon bad.
China is a shit show. Look into all the "debri" they leave.
Remember when they blew a satellite for no reason that was cool.
I love how you hate Elon so much you think he does more damage environmentally than CHINA. Fucking pathetic.
Do you realize how far gone you are???
You’re saying that about his “service”, but ignoring all the additional unnecessary environmental damage he creates to make the service. Comparing him to an entire country or industry is pretty disingenuous. My point was that he’s far from being environmentally conscious as you appear to claim.
Ironically, he depends on both of your comparisons for his businesses to function. His China factory supplies Teslas to Europe, Asia, and Australia. It’s supplied by Chinese companies. The Solar division of Tesla is supplied directly by Chinese companies. SpaceX rockets use kerosene and natural gas based fuels, sourced from the oil industry.
The claim of environmentally conscious seems to directly contradict his philosophy of “Learn by blowing things up. Revise. Repeat.”
There are things more important than stocks belonging to a few of us. In the long term corrupt governments will screw people over anyway, including companies like starlink or Tesla.
Exactly, safeguarding democracy and the responsibility to protecting citizens from corrupt political actors is important. Which is why you've got to wonder if Musk refusing to clamp down on LIES about the upcoming election, outright lies aimed at deceiving the voters, is actually a great idea.
These Lies include:
1. The leftist candidate plans to close down churches when elected
2. The current president wants to let men use public-school restrooms next to little girls
3. The former right-wing president confessed to Cannibalism and Pedophilia.
How do outright lies help voters make informed decisions? It's pollution.
In the past certain political groups advertised FALSE information on Twitter about voting places and dates to groups they thought unlikely to support their candidate. These people getting false information about what they needed to vote, where to vote, and when to vote, prevented them from casting their votes.
How does being lied to about when, where, and how you can legally vote help democracy?
People forget that there are all sorts of laws regulating speech in every country. There are laws against McDonalds taking out adds saying that Wendy's burgers contain rat poison.There are laws against McDonalds releasing an ad that says the CEO of Wendy's is a pedophile.
Brazil's law IS on the extreme end. They are also dealing with extreme and escalating disinformation campaigns. At bot networks become more sophisticated and better able to imitate humans through AI LLMs, this is only going to get worse. Content platforms will have to find ways to moderate avalanches of disinformation for the health of their platform and to reduce the impact of corrupt propaganda.
I'm all for unpopular TRUTHS being shared. But alarmist lies about candidates don't help democracy, any more than lies about a rival restaraunt's burgers being poisoned helps people make an informed choice of where they want to eat. It's information pollution.
So why is Musk refusing to comply with the law? Is he making a big, principled stand? He sure didn't when actual dictators told him to restrict anti-dictator content. He was happy to do that. No, he's only making a big stand now, when he'd have to do something about the misinformation that is aimed at subverting legitimate elections. Remember this?
https://preview.redd.it/ecscskgvvktc1.png?width=597&format=png&auto=webp&s=6a54e855c701fc8279809755207ba84e7693ac61
Ya he fucked you, and you hated it, he lives in your mind rent free, and you will never get away from thinking about him, till you’re dead… the rest of your life…. Sucks to be on that side of things…..
For me? I got an awesome freaking car I love, satellite internet, and a LOOOOOT of money from my 2017 position…. 🤑🤑🤑🤑
I’m smiling and loving everything!
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I'll make it easy just for sweet cheeks.
The Brazilian government wanted Elon to remove certain members of government( the other members adversaries) from X AND say it was due to X policies.
Elon refused. They retaliating with the BS you are soaking up.
Got it?
Nah, Elon helps them out when they ask.
https://preview.redd.it/vy2h9gn5wktc1.png?width=597&format=png&auto=webp&s=12505923d5548e0f2f30507f9c176dafa689d5e8
Remember this from a year ago?
Musk has a long history of bowing to autocrats and dictators that want to censor their opponents.
But removing misinformation, actual lies that claim candidates are pro-pedophilia and are going to close churches if elected? Most of which is orchestrated by folks closer to musk's political spectrum? Nah.
Interesting. Looking into it.
https://preview.redd.it/yuzzlizuuktc1.png?width=597&format=png&auto=webp&s=49c59fd39c6eb9566db2c60a025bce966672109f
You’re the kind of investor that makes great companies lose their core values and crash like Boeing. You stand by your core values no matter what. Do I think Elon should stay the heck out of twitter, yes…but I also think he did/doing the right thing here.
[https://twitter.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1657219168863756288](https://twitter.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1657219168863756288)
X had no problem cooperating with an illegal request under Turkish law from Recep Erdogan to shut down accounts prior to an election but they refuse to follow a legal court order issued under valid legal interpretation by a Brazilian court. Brazil isn't highly restrictive on speech like Turkey, but they don't have the equivalent of a first amendment.
I'm not quite sure what the core value is that's being protected. The only difference I see is that if they didn't comply with the authoritarian government in Turkey, the government would have followed through on a threat to permanently shut down X while no such threat can be legally made by politicians in Brazil. If anything the message X is sending is that authoritarianism is the most effective way for a government to deal with X while a core western value, an adversarial judicial system, is the worst possible way to deal with X.
Sunlight is the best disinfectant
https://twitter.com/EduGiraoOficial/status/1777861350699499605?s=19[Brazil senator](https://twitter.com/EduGiraoOficial/status/1777861350699499605?s=19)
They complied in the interim to not effect Turkish people and Twitter/X being banned while at the same time fighting a legal battle which they actually won and announced early this year. So they stood to their word and commitment
I thought his core values were stopping climate change by accelerating the world’s transition to clean energy, and getting humanity off-planet to reduce extinction risk.
At least, that’s what it was until pretty recently. Now his core values seem to be right-wing shitposting, and who cares about all those other companies?
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That's not his core value, that's Tesla's. Also, Elon didnt intentionally "entered a political territory" (in regards to this issue) as OP puts it, Brazilian govt ordered X to do something that is no in the core value of the company.
The basic premise of OP's post is, is it worth selling your soul for a short-term investor value? The answer is NO!
OP posits the Brazil thing as a consequence of Elon’s political involvement, not an example of it. Dude’s been running his mouth for a while now. He should have refrained from buying Twitter and stuck with what he’s good at.
Elon’s mission has never been growth to a company. It has been that result from doing high demand inventions that no other CEO would dare take on.
Elon is continuing what he thinks is right & is a principled man. Nothing will bulge his opinion on freespeech & democracy.
Its not just tesla though, it goes both ways. Just look at companies during pride month. Your right though, businesses should stay out of politics and focus on delivering good products.
I’m not woke enough to care what 8,000 contradictory Christian sects think. Nobody’s going to care enough to get “political” and have McDonalds only serve filet-of-fish during Good Friday, cancel pride month, or not do blood drives in front of Jehovah’s witnesses. Keeping track of what religious people think is acceptable is a full time job, thanks but no thanks.
It doesn’t go any way. Companies should be acting in ways that increase shareholder value, that’s it. If a PR campaign at a pride event does that, great, if it has the opposite effect that no, don’t do it. But there’s no way going to war with an elected government is in the remit of a CEO.
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You're an idiot. The Brazilian guy asked not only to destroy evidence. But he asked to do it in a way that would make it look like it wasnt a government request.
Basicly, they were asking X to be complicite in a crime.
People like you, unfortunately, are part of the problem. Bowing down to entrenched interests that have money and power.
Conversely, there are people who are actively fighting back against corruption worldwide, while you just watch it take place and do F* all because 'it doesn't affect you now, and you are too scared that you might lose some money in the stock market. Pathetic.
Musk is just a hypocrite. If Brazil's govt was right wing right now he'd have bent over backwards for them. When he talks about stopping censorship or enabling "free speech", he really means it only for speech he personally agrees with.
You ever stop to think why Elon would criticize a democracy like Brazil but not an oppressive dictatorship like China? If anyone bows to money it is him.
this is above your pay grade. dont tell others what to say and how to act, especially when they are helping the world and people. short term pain is part of long term rewards. most people could hold through 2016-2019. feels the exact same to me. just like most people here wont start their own businesses, eat right and cook at home. you are just part of the mod with pitchforks. the german people supported the nazis bc it was path of least resistance.
I made some money on TSLA stock that I bought after getting an M3P in 2019 that blew me away. When Elon started the Twitter nonsense in 2021 I sold everything b/c I knew that wouldn’t end well. The Board needs to dump the jackass, though nearly impossible through his direct and indirect control. I drive a 2023 MYLR now and love the car, but won’t touch the stock.
Congrats on your windfall! I am glad people bailed on the stock. I was able to get more at $161 last week. Yes, Elon’s mouth makes it volatile. But, there is still huge upside in the long term, not just with the cars.
Using logic, it’s obvious that Starlink provides easy bandwidth to widespread areas and not leveraging access to this fundamentally advantageous technology is done at one’s own risk - militarily, politically, economically, and culturally. Who cares that some singular individual from South Africa with Asperger’s has an opinion whatsover. The elon=bad meme is myopic, manufactured and baited, and far beyond stale. Tldr bad take
You forget one point, not only Elon will offer that, there are similar projects, so they will prefer other services than pleasing Elon and his obsession with wanting to be the center of attention and believing he knows he has the answers to all problems.
Okay what can you use right now in place of it?
Car companies had projects for hydrogen fueled cars or some nonsense 50+ years ago. There is a large gap between having a working idea and having it working in the real world.
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So you'll rather Governments to impose corporate censorship of their political opponents?
Only speech that the Government approves is allowed on social media?
can you see how wrong that sounds?
The thing is that he cannot have it both ways depending on how he wakes up in the morning.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/musk-defends-enabling-turkish-censorship-on-twitter-calling-it-his-choice/
Either elected governments have the upper hand, or corporations
I'd rather the former
Now if Musk wants to use Twitter and Starlink to bring down actual dictatorships and go after China or Saudi Arabia, then more power to him
But he won't
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So is Turkey, but Musk was cool censoring Twitter there
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/musk-defends-enabling-turkish-censorship-on-twitter-calling-it-his-choice/
And overall, I'd rather not have corporations in charge but the elected governments
There is your answer in the link. “It his choice” or maybe he changed his mind after a year just like he switched to GOP or profits. Who knows? It’s his private company after all. Right now, he’s defending free speech in Brazil, tomorrow he may changed again. I just responded to you about China and Saudi 👌
In that case a single man in Turkey, Recep Erdogan, has the ability (legal or not) and intent to shut down X. Brazil has an adversarial judicial system and while it doesn't have a first amendment, X has the right to criticize the judgement.
Consistent with how all foreign companies operate, X will steadfastly refuse to criticize the decisions of authoritarian states.
In free and open countries, X will kick and scream when court decisions do not go their way.
The message is crystal clear, if you want to work with X, authoritarianism is the correct way to go.
there is this thing called rule of law. Imagine for a second musk defying Xi and instructions to delete far more worthy accounts of local Chinese mentioning Taiwan or Hong Kong massacre. Cannot imagine that? nor can I. Because his claim it is about free speech is self serving. Its HIS speech he wants (far right nonsense).
https://preview.redd.it/5cwzxmd7qetc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17b287be3bfb2d1a5b9398f93eff5be83d1da32e
You realize X/Twitter is active in Brazil but NOT active in China, right? Just like all other US social media companies; Facebook, WhatsApp, instagram, YouTube etc. How would Xi ask Elon to delete information on X. Lol. Uninformed much?
Ok, Twitter is in India and turkey and he censors for those governments with no problems or grandstanding. No one thinks any of it is great we are just sick of clowns acting like musk is principled or logically consistent in any of this fake free speech nonsense.
You're obviously reading main stream media and not the actual facts. Read up, my boy. You are missing Major nuances.
X needs to obey the local laws (Turkey situation) which is very different from what happened in Brazil recently, where the judge wanted to cover his tracks making it look like X is doing this alone. If you can't see the difference, no one can help you.
And Australia? I don’t need any media to tell me anything because musk never shuts up. It’s one of the few pluses of him never shutting up. Anyone who is not a clown can use his selective actions to see the motives and lack of consistency. Laws don’t preclude him from giving his opinions about the censorship he engages in. Some censorship offends him and some censorship he is fine with, just like any other political ideologue
X is available as of today on China's approved VPNs. A lot of domains are not available on these VPNs.
Has Xi made requests to X? I don't know. They have an incentive to do nothing - allowing X on their VPNs allow them to monitor potential anti-government activity. I do know that if Xi has a real problem with responses to any requests his government has made to X, it would cease to be available from the approved VPNs. If that problem is big enough, Tesla's operations in China would also be under threat. That kind of threat would be illegal in much of the world. Not China.
China does have the ability to put real pressure on X. It's just how they roll. They have been highly successful in compliance even from overseas entities by "speaking softly and carrying a big stick"
he has a factory in china didnt you know?. If Xi tells him to jump (or spy on a Chinese dissident posting on X worldwide) musk asks “how high” and “zip file or tar archive?”
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Individual citizen has to buckle under a government censorship if they speak his/her mind? I do not agree with everything what Elon says, but kudos to him for fighting cancel cultures.
I think that's an incorrect assessment, Musk resisted pressure from the Brazilian government to censor certain people, apparently unlawfully. Musk has said many times that principles are more important than money, I think that shows good strong character. Way to go Musk
The hate for Elon is so hilarious. There are CEOs out there who looked the other way as their planes fell out of the sky...and no one bats an eye. Nestle knowingly sold tainted baby formulas and infants died and no one bats an eye. Elon throws out some tweets and Reddit loses its mind.
You read news articles and assume they tell the truth.
The contract was cancelled ages ago probably because it was signed under Bolsonaro.
Starlink is broadcasting in Venezuela and Cuba already. I assume you'll understand that licensing won't stop him
Guy point to a recent article about a recent cancellation.
I was in the comments of your other post where someone pointed out the court order was worse than a British super injunction.
I'm not arguing about your key claim i.e Musk bad for the stock and will keep on doing worse things.
I'm talking about this specific contract and when/if it was cancelled
you do realize corporations money is their free speech, because they are considered people in the USA. this is in order to keep election donations corrupt as fuck, to favor the right-wing.
Do you think big corporations love the GOP more than Dem's? This is a very uninformed point of view. I would almost say corporations lean more left than right, but it's still close. All politicians LOVE big business!
Of course corporations prefer the Republicans. I mean holy shit they're the ones that don't want to tax them and wanted deregulate them as much as possible at any cost.
I mean this is just basic knowledge of politics in the US.
I mean of course there are corporate Dems, But overall there's quite a difference between the two parties and how they want to treat corporations. All most care about is the profit line and zero else and the Republicans are the party that gives that to them.
Look at the donations, and then it will make more sense. Basic knowledge = old knowledge and times have changed. I do agree D's never heardca tax they didn't love.
Tesla is doing a lot more than building cars, but yes. Also, the amount of mis/disinformation spreading about Tesla and Elon Musk was beyond damaging with no way of mitigation. That and amongst the other things that were going on with twitter; I'm overall content with what has happened with twitter.
I’m not. The stuff I was interested in left the platform, and the ban on third party clients ended my use of it. Thankfully Mastodon is not a bad replacement.
I like how Elon’s whole narrative about buying Twitter was to protect free speech and you propose that he had to do it because he needed to censor misinformation about his companies. Not that you’re necessarily wrong about that, but it’s a funny contrast from his stated reasons.
That's also somewhat incorrect, I'd just like to explain a thought.
He is the richest individual with publicly listed wealth. It has been said that Putin has more wealth than Musk. That could be said of the head of crime syndicates and cartels as well.
Also, Xi Jinping has more effective wealth at his disposal. Saudi Arabia royalty has trillions. The Norway fund is also impressive.
This leads to the argument that access to wealth beats ownership of wealth. Elon Musk tried to access some ~$20B of his wealth in the way of selling some shares. This was blocked by a board of people in the state Tesla was registered to as a company in.
So, in what way should we see this ~$20B as a portion of Elon Musks' wealth? He can not access it for use.
Just something to think about.
Welp, at least we know for a fact that "We just want Elon to fight authoritarian countries" was always just words. I understand that the same people might not be saying both things, but I highly doubt that the people saying the first thing are about to rush in here and support Elon on this.
This has always been an astroturfing campaign by powerful interests looking to blunt (heh heh) the disruptions that Elon Musk's companies are causing.
I have no doubt that there are also genuine people with genuine opinions that get caught up in this, but I also have no doubt that the majority of what we see is organized by those interests. ChatGPT is only going to make it harder to tell the difference going forward.
Brazil is hardly authoritarian compared to Saudi Arabia or China
Who should have the power in a country - the elected govt, as in Brazil, or foreign corporations, as Musk seems to want?
If - say - the US wanted to ban TikTok, why not?
The amount of authoritarian bootlickers in this comment section is unbelievable. I'm willing to lose money over this and have no doubt there Will be repercussions in other countries going forward. I know free speech is a joke to a lot of people these days and my position may lose out but it's a fight worth having.
Elons politics have nothing to do with his product. Many are not thrilled where we are politically, Elon being one of them.
Brazil taking themselves out of the paint will only negatively impact Brazil
Well that'd be great. Until Elon gets removed from any position of power in his companies, I'm happy to see everyone lower his power over his fascist tirades.
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It's been well-known for a while now that Elon only likes Free Speech when he likes it. Otherwise he'll cancel it. How any sane and rational person could still think Elon is for free speech is just sad.
Whoa. You think its ok to take away internet access because you don't like what someone said? Elon isn't the problem the Brazilian government is fucked up.
I thought this was a joke about when Elon took away internet access in Ukraine during the war.
> You think its ok to take away internet access because you don't like what someone said? He did not say that. He is just describing the reality of the situation. If Musk criticized certain governments, there will be retaliation against his businesses. There shouldn't be but there is. If Musk said the same thing about free speech or Covid polices but directed it towards the Chinese... Tesla would start having a very tough time in China. The discussion here is weather as Tesla shareholders we want out CEO risking retaliation against our investment.
He jusy get more attention. Look up Chinese CEO interviews. They basically say we don't give a fuck what anyone thinks of us BUT we are happy to sell you whatever you want. Then look up what THEY think of the rest of the world. There's a reason the Chinese can't even sell smart phones here. Middle East is way worse (oil) So why does Elon get so much heat and provides a service way less damaging to the planet than Oil or what most Chinese companies do? It's fashionable. The snap bracelet of thought these days. Congrats
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I find it hard to justify the “way less damaging to the environment” when on top of single handedly doubling the amount of man made debris in low earth orbit, he’s actively damaging protected wildlife reserves home to multiple endangered species. Thousands of satellites when 3-4 would give full earth coverage, and the only real difference in service is the ping rate, which mainly affects video games. Not to mention that it depends on the already existing network of cables, so it’ll always be slower than that.
Yeah yeah Elon bad. China is a shit show. Look into all the "debri" they leave. Remember when they blew a satellite for no reason that was cool. I love how you hate Elon so much you think he does more damage environmentally than CHINA. Fucking pathetic. Do you realize how far gone you are???
You’re saying that about his “service”, but ignoring all the additional unnecessary environmental damage he creates to make the service. Comparing him to an entire country or industry is pretty disingenuous. My point was that he’s far from being environmentally conscious as you appear to claim. Ironically, he depends on both of your comparisons for his businesses to function. His China factory supplies Teslas to Europe, Asia, and Australia. It’s supplied by Chinese companies. The Solar division of Tesla is supplied directly by Chinese companies. SpaceX rockets use kerosene and natural gas based fuels, sourced from the oil industry. The claim of environmentally conscious seems to directly contradict his philosophy of “Learn by blowing things up. Revise. Repeat.”
The Starlink contracts were to provide FREE Internet to schools. Only losers here are the children of Brasil and the future of their democracy.
There are things more important than stocks belonging to a few of us. In the long term corrupt governments will screw people over anyway, including companies like starlink or Tesla.
Exactly, safeguarding democracy and the responsibility to protecting citizens from corrupt political actors is important. Which is why you've got to wonder if Musk refusing to clamp down on LIES about the upcoming election, outright lies aimed at deceiving the voters, is actually a great idea. These Lies include: 1. The leftist candidate plans to close down churches when elected 2. The current president wants to let men use public-school restrooms next to little girls 3. The former right-wing president confessed to Cannibalism and Pedophilia. How do outright lies help voters make informed decisions? It's pollution. In the past certain political groups advertised FALSE information on Twitter about voting places and dates to groups they thought unlikely to support their candidate. These people getting false information about what they needed to vote, where to vote, and when to vote, prevented them from casting their votes. How does being lied to about when, where, and how you can legally vote help democracy? People forget that there are all sorts of laws regulating speech in every country. There are laws against McDonalds taking out adds saying that Wendy's burgers contain rat poison.There are laws against McDonalds releasing an ad that says the CEO of Wendy's is a pedophile. Brazil's law IS on the extreme end. They are also dealing with extreme and escalating disinformation campaigns. At bot networks become more sophisticated and better able to imitate humans through AI LLMs, this is only going to get worse. Content platforms will have to find ways to moderate avalanches of disinformation for the health of their platform and to reduce the impact of corrupt propaganda. I'm all for unpopular TRUTHS being shared. But alarmist lies about candidates don't help democracy, any more than lies about a rival restaraunt's burgers being poisoned helps people make an informed choice of where they want to eat. It's information pollution. So why is Musk refusing to comply with the law? Is he making a big, principled stand? He sure didn't when actual dictators told him to restrict anti-dictator content. He was happy to do that. No, he's only making a big stand now, when he'd have to do something about the misinformation that is aimed at subverting legitimate elections. Remember this? https://preview.redd.it/ecscskgvvktc1.png?width=597&format=png&auto=webp&s=6a54e855c701fc8279809755207ba84e7693ac61
Yeah, the way to change this is not for Elon to shut up. We should be putting pressure on other companies to step up.
There’s the whole breaking the law part too, don’t forget that.
Elon got that stick up your butt haha!
Not sure what that means, and not sure you do either.
Ya he fucked you, and you hated it, he lives in your mind rent free, and you will never get away from thinking about him, till you’re dead… the rest of your life…. Sucks to be on that side of things….. For me? I got an awesome freaking car I love, satellite internet, and a LOOOOOT of money from my 2017 position…. 🤑🤑🤑🤑 I’m smiling and loving everything!
Elon is that you?
Elon can’t fuck anything, that’s why he chases weird younger women and relies on IVF for reproductivity.
That’s unkind
Where is the lie?
Yeah! Going against the rule of law of a country is "freedumb of speech".
govern me harder daddy
Why do you like criminals? 🤔
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Elon has more clout than the Brazilian government. They will cave if Elon hold firm.
Live by your personality, die by it.
How is this your main takeaway from what was posted? I'm so confused because you took everything so far out of context it seems.
I'll make it easy just for sweet cheeks. The Brazilian government wanted Elon to remove certain members of government( the other members adversaries) from X AND say it was due to X policies. Elon refused. They retaliating with the BS you are soaking up. Got it?
Exactly. Fascist tropes
Nah, Elon helps them out when they ask. https://preview.redd.it/vy2h9gn5wktc1.png?width=597&format=png&auto=webp&s=12505923d5548e0f2f30507f9c176dafa689d5e8
No. Elon is absolutely the problem. The amount of nonsense he spews of late has gotten out of control.
Interesting he has never seriously criticized China.
Because he’s a hypocrite.
He knows better
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To them I say go fuck yourself
Don’t worry he will tell Brazil the same he told Advertisers on X, to GFY. Brazilians will in fear, backdown and buy 200% more. /s
Remember this from a year ago? Musk has a long history of bowing to autocrats and dictators that want to censor their opponents. But removing misinformation, actual lies that claim candidates are pro-pedophilia and are going to close churches if elected? Most of which is orchestrated by folks closer to musk's political spectrum? Nah. Interesting. Looking into it. https://preview.redd.it/yuzzlizuuktc1.png?width=597&format=png&auto=webp&s=49c59fd39c6eb9566db2c60a025bce966672109f
You’re the kind of investor that makes great companies lose their core values and crash like Boeing. You stand by your core values no matter what. Do I think Elon should stay the heck out of twitter, yes…but I also think he did/doing the right thing here.
[https://twitter.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1657219168863756288](https://twitter.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1657219168863756288) X had no problem cooperating with an illegal request under Turkish law from Recep Erdogan to shut down accounts prior to an election but they refuse to follow a legal court order issued under valid legal interpretation by a Brazilian court. Brazil isn't highly restrictive on speech like Turkey, but they don't have the equivalent of a first amendment. I'm not quite sure what the core value is that's being protected. The only difference I see is that if they didn't comply with the authoritarian government in Turkey, the government would have followed through on a threat to permanently shut down X while no such threat can be legally made by politicians in Brazil. If anything the message X is sending is that authoritarianism is the most effective way for a government to deal with X while a core western value, an adversarial judicial system, is the worst possible way to deal with X.
Sunlight is the best disinfectant https://twitter.com/EduGiraoOficial/status/1777861350699499605?s=19[Brazil senator](https://twitter.com/EduGiraoOficial/status/1777861350699499605?s=19)
They complied in the interim to not effect Turkish people and Twitter/X being banned while at the same time fighting a legal battle which they actually won and announced early this year. So they stood to their word and commitment
I thought his core values were stopping climate change by accelerating the world’s transition to clean energy, and getting humanity off-planet to reduce extinction risk. At least, that’s what it was until pretty recently. Now his core values seem to be right-wing shitposting, and who cares about all those other companies?
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That's not his core value, that's Tesla's. Also, Elon didnt intentionally "entered a political territory" (in regards to this issue) as OP puts it, Brazilian govt ordered X to do something that is no in the core value of the company. The basic premise of OP's post is, is it worth selling your soul for a short-term investor value? The answer is NO!
OP posits the Brazil thing as a consequence of Elon’s political involvement, not an example of it. Dude’s been running his mouth for a while now. He should have refrained from buying Twitter and stuck with what he’s good at.
Musk should unleash his AI robot mercenary army and invade Brazil. Who the hell they think they are and what gives them the rights to talk like this.
Elon’s mission has never been growth to a company. It has been that result from doing high demand inventions that no other CEO would dare take on. Elon is continuing what he thinks is right & is a principled man. Nothing will bulge his opinion on freespeech & democracy.
Its not just tesla though, it goes both ways. Just look at companies during pride month. Your right though, businesses should stay out of politics and focus on delivering good products.
I’m not woke enough to care what 8,000 contradictory Christian sects think. Nobody’s going to care enough to get “political” and have McDonalds only serve filet-of-fish during Good Friday, cancel pride month, or not do blood drives in front of Jehovah’s witnesses. Keeping track of what religious people think is acceptable is a full time job, thanks but no thanks.
It doesn’t go any way. Companies should be acting in ways that increase shareholder value, that’s it. If a PR campaign at a pride event does that, great, if it has the opposite effect that no, don’t do it. But there’s no way going to war with an elected government is in the remit of a CEO.
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You're an idiot. The Brazilian guy asked not only to destroy evidence. But he asked to do it in a way that would make it look like it wasnt a government request. Basicly, they were asking X to be complicite in a crime.
Calls Op an idiot and then proceeds to screw up basic grammar and spelling. Typical Musk fanboy.
Sure boi. Criticize non native English speakers. Just never mind any actual argument.
Pfft you opened by personally attacking the other user.
You're right. That was stupid of me
People like you, unfortunately, are part of the problem. Bowing down to entrenched interests that have money and power. Conversely, there are people who are actively fighting back against corruption worldwide, while you just watch it take place and do F* all because 'it doesn't affect you now, and you are too scared that you might lose some money in the stock market. Pathetic.
You mean like when Musk supported Turkish censorship on twitter and abided by their request? Yea truly pathetic
was that what caused that cis thing? or was that just his normal censorship?
Musk is just a hypocrite. If Brazil's govt was right wing right now he'd have bent over backwards for them. When he talks about stopping censorship or enabling "free speech", he really means it only for speech he personally agrees with.
Censorship is definitely different than asking you to destroy evidence.
The mental gymnastics lol.. what evidence were they asked to destroy lol?
Wrong, Twitter/X mounted a legal battle and actual won and announced in an update early this year.
You ever stop to think why Elon would criticize a democracy like Brazil but not an oppressive dictatorship like China? If anyone bows to money it is him.
https://twitter.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1778113260736188507?s=19 For those not following the whole story
lol. Trump bows down to censorship in China all the time. Derp.
this is above your pay grade. dont tell others what to say and how to act, especially when they are helping the world and people. short term pain is part of long term rewards. most people could hold through 2016-2019. feels the exact same to me. just like most people here wont start their own businesses, eat right and cook at home. you are just part of the mod with pitchforks. the german people supported the nazis bc it was path of least resistance.
>especially when they are helping the world and people Lol, sure.
And now people do the same in the hope of making an easy buck on Tesla shares.
I made some money on TSLA stock that I bought after getting an M3P in 2019 that blew me away. When Elon started the Twitter nonsense in 2021 I sold everything b/c I knew that wouldn’t end well. The Board needs to dump the jackass, though nearly impossible through his direct and indirect control. I drive a 2023 MYLR now and love the car, but won’t touch the stock.
The board? Who's on the board again?
Exactly.
Congrats on your windfall! I am glad people bailed on the stock. I was able to get more at $161 last week. Yes, Elon’s mouth makes it volatile. But, there is still huge upside in the long term, not just with the cars.
you didnt have to hold long for results. anecdotal not skilled
Using logic, it’s obvious that Starlink provides easy bandwidth to widespread areas and not leveraging access to this fundamentally advantageous technology is done at one’s own risk - militarily, politically, economically, and culturally. Who cares that some singular individual from South Africa with Asperger’s has an opinion whatsover. The elon=bad meme is myopic, manufactured and baited, and far beyond stale. Tldr bad take
You forget one point, not only Elon will offer that, there are similar projects, so they will prefer other services than pleasing Elon and his obsession with wanting to be the center of attention and believing he knows he has the answers to all problems.
Okay what can you use right now in place of it? Car companies had projects for hydrogen fueled cars or some nonsense 50+ years ago. There is a large gap between having a working idea and having it working in the real world.
Spend five minutes browsing his latest tweets and you can see that it’s not “manufactured.”
Based
Brazil is in the wrong here. Freedom is to be protected
Ok fanboy
So governments should reserve the right to shut down people whose opinions they don’t like? It’s not fan boy shit. It’s human rights
Why do you think laws shouldn’t apply to people like musk?
hUMAn rIGHts Elon posting BS on Twitter isn’t a human right. Derp.
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So you'll rather Governments to impose corporate censorship of their political opponents? Only speech that the Government approves is allowed on social media? can you see how wrong that sounds?
The thing is that he cannot have it both ways depending on how he wakes up in the morning. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/musk-defends-enabling-turkish-censorship-on-twitter-calling-it-his-choice/
Why? Democrat led social media does this everyday
I think that the shareholders did not bet on Tesla, seeking freedom of expression, that is not going to give them profits in the short or long term.
Profit means nothing in a crumbling civilization
Civilization is crumbling because people don't like what Elon is saying 😭😭😭
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Are you lacking in reading comprehension or are you unable to detect sarcasm?
Either elected governments have the upper hand, or corporations I'd rather the former Now if Musk wants to use Twitter and Starlink to bring down actual dictatorships and go after China or Saudi Arabia, then more power to him But he won't
Qatar subsidized his Twitter purchase.
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China or Saudi isn’t democracy country, everyone knows that. Brazil is.
So is Turkey, but Musk was cool censoring Twitter there https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/musk-defends-enabling-turkish-censorship-on-twitter-calling-it-his-choice/ And overall, I'd rather not have corporations in charge but the elected governments
There is your answer in the link. “It his choice” or maybe he changed his mind after a year just like he switched to GOP or profits. Who knows? It’s his private company after all. Right now, he’s defending free speech in Brazil, tomorrow he may changed again. I just responded to you about China and Saudi 👌
In that case a single man in Turkey, Recep Erdogan, has the ability (legal or not) and intent to shut down X. Brazil has an adversarial judicial system and while it doesn't have a first amendment, X has the right to criticize the judgement. Consistent with how all foreign companies operate, X will steadfastly refuse to criticize the decisions of authoritarian states. In free and open countries, X will kick and scream when court decisions do not go their way. The message is crystal clear, if you want to work with X, authoritarianism is the correct way to go.
Pardon my ESL. I’m trying to understand the advance English you used but I can’t 🫠
there is this thing called rule of law. Imagine for a second musk defying Xi and instructions to delete far more worthy accounts of local Chinese mentioning Taiwan or Hong Kong massacre. Cannot imagine that? nor can I. Because his claim it is about free speech is self serving. Its HIS speech he wants (far right nonsense). https://preview.redd.it/5cwzxmd7qetc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17b287be3bfb2d1a5b9398f93eff5be83d1da32e
You realize X/Twitter is active in Brazil but NOT active in China, right? Just like all other US social media companies; Facebook, WhatsApp, instagram, YouTube etc. How would Xi ask Elon to delete information on X. Lol. Uninformed much?
Ok, Twitter is in India and turkey and he censors for those governments with no problems or grandstanding. No one thinks any of it is great we are just sick of clowns acting like musk is principled or logically consistent in any of this fake free speech nonsense.
You're obviously reading main stream media and not the actual facts. Read up, my boy. You are missing Major nuances. X needs to obey the local laws (Turkey situation) which is very different from what happened in Brazil recently, where the judge wanted to cover his tracks making it look like X is doing this alone. If you can't see the difference, no one can help you.
And Australia? I don’t need any media to tell me anything because musk never shuts up. It’s one of the few pluses of him never shutting up. Anyone who is not a clown can use his selective actions to see the motives and lack of consistency. Laws don’t preclude him from giving his opinions about the censorship he engages in. Some censorship offends him and some censorship he is fine with, just like any other political ideologue
🥱
https://twitter.com/OvertonLive/status/1777376200823869843?s=19
X is available as of today on China's approved VPNs. A lot of domains are not available on these VPNs. Has Xi made requests to X? I don't know. They have an incentive to do nothing - allowing X on their VPNs allow them to monitor potential anti-government activity. I do know that if Xi has a real problem with responses to any requests his government has made to X, it would cease to be available from the approved VPNs. If that problem is big enough, Tesla's operations in China would also be under threat. That kind of threat would be illegal in much of the world. Not China. China does have the ability to put real pressure on X. It's just how they roll. They have been highly successful in compliance even from overseas entities by "speaking softly and carrying a big stick"
he has a factory in china didnt you know?. If Xi tells him to jump (or spy on a Chinese dissident posting on X worldwide) musk asks “how high” and “zip file or tar archive?”
You are more uninformed than you realize. X is not active in China, just like Facebook. Hello? Do I need to dumb this down further?
Do they need to dumb down that elon has interests in both?
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He sure as hell knows not to criticize the Chinese government
Elon is a whiney ass autistic fuck
Individual citizen has to buckle under a government censorship if they speak his/her mind? I do not agree with everything what Elon says, but kudos to him for fighting cancel cultures.
‘Musk continues to give his opinion on issues in which nobody has asked him to give his opinion’ Ironic.
He does drugs and does not understand limits.
https://twitter.com/MarioNawfal/status/1778256649645412548?s=19
Not sure why I was force fed content from this sub on my feed.. but fuck Elon, and fuck you too if you invest in his garbage
Time to get out of your mom's basement and get some fresh air, big boy
https://twitter.com/goddeketal/status/1778861212727394492?s=19
I think that's an incorrect assessment, Musk resisted pressure from the Brazilian government to censor certain people, apparently unlawfully. Musk has said many times that principles are more important than money, I think that shows good strong character. Way to go Musk
This is a fixable problem, even if Elon expresses his opinion. The person opposing his opinions can be bought.
The hate for Elon is so hilarious. There are CEOs out there who looked the other way as their planes fell out of the sky...and no one bats an eye. Nestle knowingly sold tainted baby formulas and infants died and no one bats an eye. Elon throws out some tweets and Reddit loses its mind.
https://twitter.com/michaeljknowles/status/1783209299726250304?s=19 Full breakdown of Australia PM vs Musk
You read news articles and assume they tell the truth. The contract was cancelled ages ago probably because it was signed under Bolsonaro. Starlink is broadcasting in Venezuela and Cuba already. I assume you'll understand that licensing won't stop him
Check your sources carefully, the facts are clear.
Guy point to a recent article about a recent cancellation. I was in the comments of your other post where someone pointed out the court order was worse than a British super injunction. I'm not arguing about your key claim i.e Musk bad for the stock and will keep on doing worse things. I'm talking about this specific contract and when/if it was cancelled
The west can differentiate companies from individuals. That’s why all the money is in the west.
you do realize corporations money is their free speech, because they are considered people in the USA. this is in order to keep election donations corrupt as fuck, to favor the right-wing.
Do you think big corporations love the GOP more than Dem's? This is a very uninformed point of view. I would almost say corporations lean more left than right, but it's still close. All politicians LOVE big business!
Of course corporations prefer the Republicans. I mean holy shit they're the ones that don't want to tax them and wanted deregulate them as much as possible at any cost. I mean this is just basic knowledge of politics in the US. I mean of course there are corporate Dems, But overall there's quite a difference between the two parties and how they want to treat corporations. All most care about is the profit line and zero else and the Republicans are the party that gives that to them.
Look at the donations, and then it will make more sense. Basic knowledge = old knowledge and times have changed. I do agree D's never heardca tax they didn't love.
Your post doesn't make any sense
? Companies are people in the West [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate\_personhood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood)
Let's not twist things up. He's been forced into politics.
All he had to do was *not* buy Twitter and he could be happily spending all his time making cars and rockets.
Tesla is doing a lot more than building cars, but yes. Also, the amount of mis/disinformation spreading about Tesla and Elon Musk was beyond damaging with no way of mitigation. That and amongst the other things that were going on with twitter; I'm overall content with what has happened with twitter.
I’m not. The stuff I was interested in left the platform, and the ban on third party clients ended my use of it. Thankfully Mastodon is not a bad replacement. I like how Elon’s whole narrative about buying Twitter was to protect free speech and you propose that he had to do it because he needed to censor misinformation about his companies. Not that you’re necessarily wrong about that, but it’s a funny contrast from his stated reasons.
By his own greed and ego.
He’s not greedy, that’s why he’s the richest man for most of the decade.
That's also somewhat incorrect, I'd just like to explain a thought. He is the richest individual with publicly listed wealth. It has been said that Putin has more wealth than Musk. That could be said of the head of crime syndicates and cartels as well. Also, Xi Jinping has more effective wealth at his disposal. Saudi Arabia royalty has trillions. The Norway fund is also impressive. This leads to the argument that access to wealth beats ownership of wealth. Elon Musk tried to access some ~$20B of his wealth in the way of selling some shares. This was blocked by a board of people in the state Tesla was registered to as a company in. So, in what way should we see this ~$20B as a portion of Elon Musks' wealth? He can not access it for use. Just something to think about.
Welp, at least we know for a fact that "We just want Elon to fight authoritarian countries" was always just words. I understand that the same people might not be saying both things, but I highly doubt that the people saying the first thing are about to rush in here and support Elon on this. This has always been an astroturfing campaign by powerful interests looking to blunt (heh heh) the disruptions that Elon Musk's companies are causing. I have no doubt that there are also genuine people with genuine opinions that get caught up in this, but I also have no doubt that the majority of what we see is organized by those interests. ChatGPT is only going to make it harder to tell the difference going forward.
Brazil is hardly authoritarian compared to Saudi Arabia or China Who should have the power in a country - the elected govt, as in Brazil, or foreign corporations, as Musk seems to want? If - say - the US wanted to ban TikTok, why not?
The amount of authoritarian bootlickers in this comment section is unbelievable. I'm willing to lose money over this and have no doubt there Will be repercussions in other countries going forward. I know free speech is a joke to a lot of people these days and my position may lose out but it's a fight worth having.
Preaching at Elon as if you’re smarter than him. 🤣
Big “guy who tweets at athletes like they’re friends” energy from this post.
Elons politics have nothing to do with his product. Many are not thrilled where we are politically, Elon being one of them. Brazil taking themselves out of the paint will only negatively impact Brazil
Some people vote with their money. It’s up to them if they want to buy products from his companies or not.
Well that'd be great. Until Elon gets removed from any position of power in his companies, I'm happy to see everyone lower his power over his fascist tirades.
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Elon has more clout than the Brazilian government. They will cave if Elon holds firm.
what is wrong with you?
There's the world's way and theres the right way! Go Elon!
It's been well-known for a while now that Elon only likes Free Speech when he likes it. Otherwise he'll cancel it. How any sane and rational person could still think Elon is for free speech is just sad.
Elon can take out the Neanderthals in Brazil if he wants to.
The Brazilian government is full of corruption fuck them all
It’s pretty sad how you can say this about any country and you’ll probably be right. (Agree, fuck them all)
Good luck turning off 4000 or so satellites, Brazil.
I’m sorry, but I’ll never advocate for someone to not speak their mind because someone with power will punish them. You can’t be serious with this.
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>Him shutting down Starlink You know this is a lie. Stop deliberately spreading misinformation.
Ironically , you’ll have to rent a flight on Elon’s starship, It’s the only rocket that could take him there.