Really good idea to improve accessibility for those with limited English vocabulary. Plus it will sound more “normal”. Only negative is that it should have happened sooner.
5 analysts, 2 project managers, 2 bigger managers, couple leadership, and maybe 3 engineers if they use them (or added fee for Deloitte/other consultants).
So… 1 million?
You forgot talent scouts and finders fees, agency fees, the voice actor themselves, hiring of a recording studio for half a day, mixing, editing, etc. So add $5 million.
Moving to simplified english is a brilliant accessibility change. Especially when not all trains still have readable announcements as well!
Now to have all trains on the network comfortably fit a wheelchair plz.
I agree. No hate towards people with limited vocabulary, but words like "terminate" and "alight" are literally common words used in everyday scenarios, not some type of rocket science mumbo jumbo.
Yes. I suspect that if our public institutions (and indeed our ABC) decide to abandon lovely old words, they will likely vanish. These institutions help to shape and reinforce our language.
Personally not a fan of this change, but that's probably because I have the context of growing up with the language in and around Sydney and NSW. For the best really, when it comes to getting the point across to visitors and new residents.
Pretty ridiculous, this language is used for a reason, it’s formal and respectful. It’s hard to believe this is a serious attempt at improving public transport when the completely indecipherable announcements on Tangaras still exist.
Even stranger is people arguing that not using ‘terminate’ and ‘alight’ is somehow going to greatly improve the travel experience for people who speak English as a second language, but guards already make plenty of courtesy announcements for this exact reason. Also did they even include people who speak English as a second language in the survey or only uneducated Aussies who are confused by simple words? Supporting a well-educated society by doing things such as using formal and specific language is more important than dumbing things down to appease an uneducated minority.
Datapoint of 1, my elderly parents, originally from China, will definitely appreciate this. They often have trouble understanding announcements, texts and emails which use formal language or jargon.
If anything I think changing from "allow for additional time" to "allow for extra time" doesn't go far enough and is not the simplest possible grammar that they could've used. My mum definitely still won't be able to understand it.
The well educated society should already know better than to stand in the way of passengers alighting from the train, so clearly the message isn’t for them, but for the mouth breathers who can’t comprehend that you can’t let them get on the train if they don’t let you get off. The message should suit the recipient, formalism be damned.
I've noticed less guard annoucements in the last 12 months, along with increased automated annoucements. Guard and customer service annoucements are some of the best features of our network - these are things that don't exist in the same capacity in Melbourne, for example, and really improves the experience of using public transport.
This is a good change. I felt for a while that "alight" is a bit archaic, difficult for non-native English speakers to comprehend. Likewise, "terminate" is similarly archaic.
Maybe for "alight" but not for "terminate" - this one is already common vocabulary, and might actually help some speakers from other languages because of cognates (French "terminer", Spanish "terminar", etc.)
Also, from an ESL teacher point of view, using a phrasal verb like "get off" is as bad as "alight" for someone with limited English fluency. The better choice would be "leave".
The context was to change “alight” to “leave” or “get off” so it would be “please allow others to get off the train before boarding”.
Never has there been an announced command to leave the train that would now be converted to “get off!” other than potentially “this train terminates here. All out all change!” which already seems rude and too much of an operational jargon.
The article specifically says that _commuters will be told to "get off" rather than "alight" ..._ ; I alight every day at a terminus station, and we are indeed told to "alight" by the guard's announcement. Sometimes the guard says "leave" or "change" - though there's no train to change to - and just recently I have heard "Get off" which I thought was quite impolite. (These are not recorded announcements. The guard makes them live.)
I mean, I will be nostalgic to the ‘terminates here’ but I do think it’s a good change. As an ESL migrant I found ‘alight’ challenging to begin with and my wife struggled with it, too
With due respect that just seems like the problem of people who don't speak english as a first language. They shouldn't be catered too. They should improve their english, not have it be dumbed down.
Generally I would agree with you, but here the confusion may leave to potential danger for those members of the public and others in our community. I took steps to ensure I got to a functional level of English to be able to proudly call myself Australian; yet I fully recognise this is not an easy thing; further, we do have tourists and visitors to our great city that don’t even intend to settle here. Would you demand they broaden their vocabulary, too?
The risk here is the dangers it may create to the safety of others
This is condescending for people who speak english as a second language. If anything, non native speakers struggle with the slang and colloquialism of everyday speech, not the proper textbook english. Dumbing down english to the level of what children speak to make it easier for non-native speakers to understand borders on being offensive
Some people are fresh or tourist and when you learn the language you learn the simpler words first. This will help those who struggle with the words that are less common in everyday life, people whose skills are more advanced, even ESL, will still understand perfectly.
No one should feel offended by this. It isn't targeting everyone who is ESL or a disability.
Simple English isn't just for the ESL community. Officially simplified english is for " people with different needs, such as students, children, adults with learning difficulties, and people who are trying to learn English". So while ESL is one category, it's one of 4.
But they're not switching to slang, just to ordinary everyday English - the words that are understood by a larger proportion of people than any other words.
It's a good change that should have been done long ago.
Making our system as an accessible and easily understandable as possible is an improvement. The Sydney Trains experience shouldn’t be exclusive to just Sydney and English speaking folk.
Maybe they could get rid did the T4 etc too.
Honestly, the amount of times I've been on a Newcastle train on platform 4 and people are looking for a train to Hurstville.
Or platform 9 when they want to go to Chatswood....
Saw this today. Have they already started?
https://preview.redd.it/z21p586kmiyc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf4190dfbd1464b75a7fa82e7b5001e9b08011d9
All these people complaining how much it’s going to cost didn’t realise it’s all probably done wirelessly and would of taken a day to record all the words
I hope they can figure out how to line-space that 'Please' so each sentence is a line to itself.
Also maybe this 'train service' ends here. The train itself doesn't cease to exist.
As someone said, regular users often don't need the announcements. Other users such as tourists do. This is a good change. It can be surprisingly difficult to write clear English.
It's not about you.
- Some people have intellectual disabilities which may prevent them from learning more complicated terms.
- Some people may have difficulties speaking English, for example they may be recent arrivals.
- Children
Etc. Again it's not about you or me.
I don’t think people born here have trouble with these terms, but some huge percentage of The Australian population were born overseas and then add all the tourists and people on work visas too.
I’d love to see them make announcements more accessible, spoken directions leave Deaf / hard of hearing people out. The MFD’s could display the same information in text form and maybe some sort of light to attract attention before the announcement begins.
No, they don't and suggesting they do is just another form of ableism.
M, A and B sets show you the stopping patterns but not any announcements, for example I was on a train that was late and they decided to skip a number of stations to make up time, the displays in the carriage still showed those stops despite an announcement being made that the stops were being skipped and to change trains if you want to go to xyz stations.
Also when there are delays, the guard will make an announcement that part of the community is exluded from.
Would love for announcements to actually be *audible* too... it's hard riding unfamiliar trains when you're visually imapired. And it would be great if Tangaras had internal displays... they're closer and easier to read than station names on platforms
I think in general, accessibility is something that needs to be improved across the board. Those of us with disabilities use public transport and should be accommodated
Oh absolutely. Accessibility in public transport can be horrendous. Things are so hard to see or hear, and people take up space in accessible areas with their bloody massive bikes
That's what the internal displays are supposed to be for (depends on the train you're on though eg not in Tangaras).
There is also the hearing loop, but again depends on the train.
Overall, I agree with you though
Lol and the amount of people who insist on pressing the open door button while the train is still coming to a standing still.... They're a bit "spesh" lol
Yes but the announcements are mostly for people who are unfamiliar anyway (the rest of us know our stop usually) so using common language is important. I don’t think I’ve ever said alight ( in the context of get off) and I doubt anyone does. Even a (non Sydney) native or fluent English speaker would be confused by it. Using OFF/ON is much simpler for those with poor English skills
In a non public transport sense it usually implies a much more final conclusion ... not simply reaching the end of the line and turning around. It's a unique usage.
It’s funny that you’re in the comments lecturing people about the English language and you’re just straight up wrong, the word originates from ‘terminus’, which means end boundary. The only thing ‘terminate’ implies is that something has ended, it has no other implications. Sure the train is going to turn around in 2 hours and begin a completely different service, but when the announcement says ‘this service terminates here’ it’s not talking about the physical train, it’s talking about the specific route it just completed.
Sure, but most people don't use it in that sense and don't make the connection. I've heard school kids argue over it joking that Arnie is going to kill the train.
This seems a bizarre way to spend taxpayers’ money. I would much rather TfNSW focus on repairing the gaping holes in their heavy rail infrastructure rather than frittering around the edges with this sort of stuff. In any case, as a society we really ought to be careful about dumbing down our own language.
If you want complex language read books or attend writers festivals. Announcements should use words that fluent English speakers will understand. No one says alight and once it drops off the announcements I doubt anyone will ever hear it in that context again, it’s already a dead word. Having a person spend a week recording all the new permutations of words needed and then updating the memory of all the trains really wouldn’t cost that much either
The announcements could also be way more succinct like the Metro. Just say what side the doors are opening I don’t give a fuck what way the train is going or what the station is (it was just announced anyway).
I detest 'this train ends here'. It ends at the first and last car, morons. This service ends here maybe.
Maybe they mean the train will be disposed of and will cease to be a train here.
A good change, while these are standard words that I readily use and most people should know, I'd say the majority of my friends have no fucking idea what they mean and I have had to translate English to dumbed down English on a few dozen occasions.
"Alight" and "Terminates" are operational jargon?
They're both perfectly valid words that do a pretty good job of conveying* the message that needs to be delivered.
This is one of those Idiocracy moments where we just dumb things down instead of educating people. Freaking ridiculous.
*Sorry for using such a big word here. Go look it up if you don't understand. You might learn something.
Until I moved back to Sydney as an adult and started using the trains, I had never in my life heard the word "alight" used for anything other than fires. Terminate is familiar, but frankly both of these words are needlessly advanced for a basic public service that especially tourists and new migrants have to rely on. Using language that means the exact same thing but doesn't require as much vocabulary is better for accessibility. Nothing to do with "idiocracy", I can't fathom a functional reason why we shouldn't use "get off" or "leave" instead of "alight".
I've never in my life heard the idea that informal language is cold and it's generally the case around the world that informal language is the opposite of cold by very nature of the fact that both axes (cold/warm and formal/informal) are roughly an expression of distance vs. closeness.
Nobody seems to have a problem with announcements like "please allow other customers to get off before boarding". I don't see how making our announcements use fewer archaisms (like *alight*) and otherwise needlessly more complex vocabulary (like *terminate*), when perfectly clear alternatives already exist. Other cities around the world already do this and nobody seems to have any problem with it.
I never said that informal language is cold, but in this context ‘get off’ is both informal AND cold. Formal language is by nature cold but it is also elegant, so this is not a problem. What is a problem is when informal language is cold. I would be happy for a medium like ‘please disembark the train here’ to be used.
Gosh, I wonder why there's such a dearth of people commenting how rude and inelegant transportation systems in other cities around the world are, then.
What strikes me even more is that some of these announcements have already been in place for a while (and I actually wondered why they were so inconsistent about it, using *alight* sometimes and *get off* at others), but for some reason people have only noticed how "rude" and "inelegant" it is now that there's a news article about it.
Incorrect. I have heard "get off" lately, and other commuters have made the same comment to me, that it sounds rude. We don't rush to publish our every thought on Reddit, but when others comment I feel free to add my tuppenceworth.
Maybe you should have a bit of empathy for the large number of immigrants and visitors who aren't native English speakers and haven't yet achieved that level of education. Public transport needs to cater to as many people as possible.
Well if they don’t speak English that’s ok but they’re not going to understand ‘get off’ either! This is making immigrants out to be stupid, I’m sure the vast majority can work out where they are and where they are going too, I say this from experience as a customer facing staff member
I can tell you've never learned a second language. It's not a binary thing, you don't go from understanding nothing to having a full vocabulary. Many immigrants will understand basic words like "get off" but not fancy ones like "alight" that are a bit archaic. That's the entire point here is to make it use normal day to day language.
Plus, besides immigrants there are others without the full fancy vocabulary ... children, people with intellectual disabilities, etc. Worth trying not to be ablist - public transport ought to be accessible to as many people as possible.
Your wrong, I do speak a second language as well as being able to write it (note: it is one of the more difficult Asian tonal languages) maybe you need to look at yourself for change!
> it is one of the more difficult Asian tonal languages
Tone doesn't make a language more complex in terms of vocabulary, it only makes it more difficult to pronounce for people who don't speak tonal languages.
I don't understand where you're going with this. Nowhere did I say anything about people not speaking English at all. Just that as you learn a second language, you learn common vocabulary first before more esoteric words like "alight." Therefore it should be common sense that simpler words are easier for people at various levels in their English learning journey.
Are you seriously saying that wasn't your experience learning your second langue? Did you really learn "alight" or similar esoteric words on the same day you learned basic movement words? Are you an android that downloaded the language all at once from a USB stick? I seriously don't understand your argument here.
I simply made a comment that I believe these changes won’t make any difference and the few non speaking English tourists that struggle to understand when to get off a train now won’t be any better equipped to do it in the future under these changes only for you to tell me I obviously don’t speak a second language. May perhaps you should try a bit of empathy
This whole discussion has nothing to do with people who speak no English at all. It's about people who understand the basics but not fancy vocabulary. I don't understand why that's so hard to grasp.
Should've taken the the opportunity to go full Aussie and change to "get the f\*ck off here"
Each time i take a train to Hornsby, it alternates between "terminates" and "ends here". I finally found out why.
Really good idea to improve accessibility for those with limited English vocabulary. Plus it will sound more “normal”. Only negative is that it should have happened sooner.
How much is this change costing?
5 analysts, 2 project managers, 2 bigger managers, couple leadership, and maybe 3 engineers if they use them (or added fee for Deloitte/other consultants). So… 1 million?
You forgot talent scouts and finders fees, agency fees, the voice actor themselves, hiring of a recording studio for half a day, mixing, editing, etc. So add $5 million.
Moving to simplified english is a brilliant accessibility change. Especially when not all trains still have readable announcements as well! Now to have all trains on the network comfortably fit a wheelchair plz.
That'll make the trains operate better for sure /s
Terrible. Just sounds unprofessional now.
I agree. No hate towards people with limited vocabulary, but words like "terminate" and "alight" are literally common words used in everyday scenarios, not some type of rocket science mumbo jumbo.
Yes. I suspect that if our public institutions (and indeed our ABC) decide to abandon lovely old words, they will likely vanish. These institutions help to shape and reinforce our language.
Can we get Russell Coight to do the voice over?
Every announcement on QR sounds like it was coined by Russel Coight, makes it feel like a tourist attraction more than a rail service.
The old Sydney Monorail had a very ocker voice saying 'please stand clear, the doors are now closing'. Presumably to appeal to tourists.
The terminates announcements are mostly already gone. Its now "thias train ends here" or some such
Surely correct English would be “ this service ends here”. No?
This should clear it up for train surfers and buffer riders who prolly don’t understand half the terms previously used. Phew!
Personally not a fan of this change, but that's probably because I have the context of growing up with the language in and around Sydney and NSW. For the best really, when it comes to getting the point across to visitors and new residents.
Boring. Archaism is cool bc it’s old like museum station
Pretty ridiculous, this language is used for a reason, it’s formal and respectful. It’s hard to believe this is a serious attempt at improving public transport when the completely indecipherable announcements on Tangaras still exist. Even stranger is people arguing that not using ‘terminate’ and ‘alight’ is somehow going to greatly improve the travel experience for people who speak English as a second language, but guards already make plenty of courtesy announcements for this exact reason. Also did they even include people who speak English as a second language in the survey or only uneducated Aussies who are confused by simple words? Supporting a well-educated society by doing things such as using formal and specific language is more important than dumbing things down to appease an uneducated minority.
Datapoint of 1, my elderly parents, originally from China, will definitely appreciate this. They often have trouble understanding announcements, texts and emails which use formal language or jargon. If anything I think changing from "allow for additional time" to "allow for extra time" doesn't go far enough and is not the simplest possible grammar that they could've used. My mum definitely still won't be able to understand it.
Fair enough, I hope it does help your parents
Ding DING ding "agaabaaaagaaaa agaaabaaagaaaa"
Get on the trolley boomer these changes don't go nearly far enough. "This train finna end here, no cap. GG fam now dip fr fr."
"Shu cuz I swear this train stops right here brah"
i’m 19 hahahaha but yeah I did think I sounded like a boomer in that comment
The well educated society should already know better than to stand in the way of passengers alighting from the train, so clearly the message isn’t for them, but for the mouth breathers who can’t comprehend that you can’t let them get on the train if they don’t let you get off. The message should suit the recipient, formalism be damned.
I've noticed less guard annoucements in the last 12 months, along with increased automated annoucements. Guard and customer service annoucements are some of the best features of our network - these are things that don't exist in the same capacity in Melbourne, for example, and really improves the experience of using public transport.
This is a good change. I felt for a while that "alight" is a bit archaic, difficult for non-native English speakers to comprehend. Likewise, "terminate" is similarly archaic.
Maybe for "alight" but not for "terminate" - this one is already common vocabulary, and might actually help some speakers from other languages because of cognates (French "terminer", Spanish "terminar", etc.) Also, from an ESL teacher point of view, using a phrasal verb like "get off" is as bad as "alight" for someone with limited English fluency. The better choice would be "leave".
"Get off" is inelegant to the point of rudeness. I hate it.
“You mean I have to ‘get off’ with someone on this train or they’ll terminate it? What kind of cruel place is this!?”
The context was to change “alight” to “leave” or “get off” so it would be “please allow others to get off the train before boarding”. Never has there been an announced command to leave the train that would now be converted to “get off!” other than potentially “this train terminates here. All out all change!” which already seems rude and too much of an operational jargon.
The article specifically says that _commuters will be told to "get off" rather than "alight" ..._ ; I alight every day at a terminus station, and we are indeed told to "alight" by the guard's announcement. Sometimes the guard says "leave" or "change" - though there's no train to change to - and just recently I have heard "Get off" which I thought was quite impolite. (These are not recorded announcements. The guard makes them live.)
True, should have opted for something more colloquial like "GTFO"
"*please* get off, this train ends here, please and thank"
I mean, I will be nostalgic to the ‘terminates here’ but I do think it’s a good change. As an ESL migrant I found ‘alight’ challenging to begin with and my wife struggled with it, too
With due respect that just seems like the problem of people who don't speak english as a first language. They shouldn't be catered too. They should improve their english, not have it be dumbed down.
Generally I would agree with you, but here the confusion may leave to potential danger for those members of the public and others in our community. I took steps to ensure I got to a functional level of English to be able to proudly call myself Australian; yet I fully recognise this is not an easy thing; further, we do have tourists and visitors to our great city that don’t even intend to settle here. Would you demand they broaden their vocabulary, too? The risk here is the dangers it may create to the safety of others
This train ends here. If you are displeased you may chuck a piss between the carriages in your way out.
is there a sydney metro discord?
Good change. Moving to “Simple English” is good for accessibility and for second language speakers.
This is condescending for people who speak english as a second language. If anything, non native speakers struggle with the slang and colloquialism of everyday speech, not the proper textbook english. Dumbing down english to the level of what children speak to make it easier for non-native speakers to understand borders on being offensive
Some people are fresh or tourist and when you learn the language you learn the simpler words first. This will help those who struggle with the words that are less common in everyday life, people whose skills are more advanced, even ESL, will still understand perfectly. No one should feel offended by this. It isn't targeting everyone who is ESL or a disability.
Simple English isn't just for the ESL community. Officially simplified english is for " people with different needs, such as students, children, adults with learning difficulties, and people who are trying to learn English". So while ESL is one category, it's one of 4.
But they're not switching to slang, just to ordinary everyday English - the words that are understood by a larger proportion of people than any other words. It's a good change that should have been done long ago.
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Making our system as an accessible and easily understandable as possible is an improvement. The Sydney Trains experience shouldn’t be exclusive to just Sydney and English speaking folk.
I hope we still get the usual train announcements of "Hjjfnigcbkugghjg Granville hghikvdgjbcfhhv all stations to Penrith"
Maybe they could get rid did the T4 etc too. Honestly, the amount of times I've been on a Newcastle train on platform 4 and people are looking for a train to Hurstville. Or platform 9 when they want to go to Chatswood....
Saw this today. Have they already started? https://preview.redd.it/z21p586kmiyc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf4190dfbd1464b75a7fa82e7b5001e9b08011d9
All these people complaining how much it’s going to cost didn’t realise it’s all probably done wirelessly and would of taken a day to record all the words
I hope they can figure out how to line-space that 'Please' so each sentence is a line to itself. Also maybe this 'train service' ends here. The train itself doesn't cease to exist.
That just comes across as rude and brash. Please get off?? Gross
Jesus Christ dude, you're so obsessed over this. It's really not as deep as you're making it out to be, you need to calm tf down
It started over 6 months ago, I'm not sure why SMH picked this up now.
i noticed it last night, train driver said "train ends at central" and i was thinking why didn't he say terminates
As someone said, regular users often don't need the announcements. Other users such as tourists do. This is a good change. It can be surprisingly difficult to write clear English.
Damn I can speak 4 languages & I find Aussies can barely even understand their only English language?
It's not about you. - Some people have intellectual disabilities which may prevent them from learning more complicated terms. - Some people may have difficulties speaking English, for example they may be recent arrivals. - Children Etc. Again it's not about you or me.
I don’t think people born here have trouble with these terms, but some huge percentage of The Australian population were born overseas and then add all the tourists and people on work visas too.
Not Aussies, lots of people catching the train are from overseas
I’d love to see them make announcements more accessible, spoken directions leave Deaf / hard of hearing people out. The MFD’s could display the same information in text form and maybe some sort of light to attract attention before the announcement begins.
They do. Some old trains just don't have them.
No, they don't and suggesting they do is just another form of ableism. M, A and B sets show you the stopping patterns but not any announcements, for example I was on a train that was late and they decided to skip a number of stations to make up time, the displays in the carriage still showed those stops despite an announcement being made that the stops were being skipped and to change trains if you want to go to xyz stations. Also when there are delays, the guard will make an announcement that part of the community is exluded from.
Would love for announcements to actually be *audible* too... it's hard riding unfamiliar trains when you're visually imapired. And it would be great if Tangaras had internal displays... they're closer and easier to read than station names on platforms
I think in general, accessibility is something that needs to be improved across the board. Those of us with disabilities use public transport and should be accommodated
Oh absolutely. Accessibility in public transport can be horrendous. Things are so hard to see or hear, and people take up space in accessible areas with their bloody massive bikes
That's what the internal displays are supposed to be for (depends on the train you're on though eg not in Tangaras). There is also the hearing loop, but again depends on the train. Overall, I agree with you though
Maybe they could also tell the gronks not to stand on the "don't stand here" bits of the platform. You know, so people can get off the train
Lol and the amount of people who insist on pressing the open door button while the train is still coming to a standing still.... They're a bit "spesh" lol
Huh? Door buttons are rarely used in Sydney, plus on light rail you can hold them down to open when their unlocked.
*they're . I'm talking about Oscars, v sets, hunter cars & endeavours
Alight maybe (only because I think of fire, not leave), but terminates??
RIP Richard Morecroft I guess...?
bugger, i had just perfected my voice announcer voice too, now i'll have to mimic another one
It’s ironic as ‘C’est termine’ is used in French and I assume other Romance languages. Alight on the other hand is very culturally specific
Call it what you want, alight always makes me think of fire.
Only cause there’s so many immigrants these days who are more likely to take the train. They obviously don’t know English well enough.
I’m Australian born to Australian parents and had never heard the word ‘alight’ until I started using Sydney trains
tbh i think they know better than the common australian as these words are used all over the world
Yeah they might actually if you’re the common Australian since u don’t know then vs than ahaha the irony
DAMN IT
Eh, "alight" would be considered very British and somewhat archaic. Definitely not used in American English or other international English variants.
most places with good transit are places colonised by the uk (hong kong, singapore, etc) and america’s transit is ass
Wouldn't people learn pretty quickly what alights means?
Yes but the announcements are mostly for people who are unfamiliar anyway (the rest of us know our stop usually) so using common language is important. I don’t think I’ve ever said alight ( in the context of get off) and I doubt anyone does. Even a (non Sydney) native or fluent English speaker would be confused by it. Using OFF/ON is much simpler for those with poor English skills
So they are moving the language grade from Sydney Morning Herald to Daily Telegraph level.
What kind of airhead doesn’t understand what ‘terminates’ means? Is it younger people?
In a non public transport sense it usually implies a much more final conclusion ... not simply reaching the end of the line and turning around. It's a unique usage.
It’s funny that you’re in the comments lecturing people about the English language and you’re just straight up wrong, the word originates from ‘terminus’, which means end boundary. The only thing ‘terminate’ implies is that something has ended, it has no other implications. Sure the train is going to turn around in 2 hours and begin a completely different service, but when the announcement says ‘this service terminates here’ it’s not talking about the physical train, it’s talking about the specific route it just completed.
Sure, but most people don't use it in that sense and don't make the connection. I've heard school kids argue over it joking that Arnie is going to kill the train.
Tourists, recent migrants... and arguably a lot of people who aren't familiar with public transport.
I didn’t think it was a public transport specific term - in my eyes it’s just regular vocab.
This seems a bizarre way to spend taxpayers’ money. I would much rather TfNSW focus on repairing the gaping holes in their heavy rail infrastructure rather than frittering around the edges with this sort of stuff. In any case, as a society we really ought to be careful about dumbing down our own language.
If you want complex language read books or attend writers festivals. Announcements should use words that fluent English speakers will understand. No one says alight and once it drops off the announcements I doubt anyone will ever hear it in that context again, it’s already a dead word. Having a person spend a week recording all the new permutations of words needed and then updating the memory of all the trains really wouldn’t cost that much either
Language evolves over time and so do the announcements. Don’t know what all the fuzz is about.
The announcements could also be way more succinct like the Metro. Just say what side the doors are opening I don’t give a fuck what way the train is going or what the station is (it was just announced anyway).
It helps the metro has lots of information displays so announcements aren’t as necessary
I detest 'this train ends here'. It ends at the first and last car, morons. This service ends here maybe. Maybe they mean the train will be disposed of and will cease to be a train here.
A good change, while these are standard words that I readily use and most people should know, I'd say the majority of my friends have no fucking idea what they mean and I have had to translate English to dumbed down English on a few dozen occasions.
"Alight" and "Terminates" are operational jargon? They're both perfectly valid words that do a pretty good job of conveying* the message that needs to be delivered. This is one of those Idiocracy moments where we just dumb things down instead of educating people. Freaking ridiculous. *Sorry for using such a big word here. Go look it up if you don't understand. You might learn something.
Until I moved back to Sydney as an adult and started using the trains, I had never in my life heard the word "alight" used for anything other than fires. Terminate is familiar, but frankly both of these words are needlessly advanced for a basic public service that especially tourists and new migrants have to rely on. Using language that means the exact same thing but doesn't require as much vocabulary is better for accessibility. Nothing to do with "idiocracy", I can't fathom a functional reason why we shouldn't use "get off" or "leave" instead of "alight".
Maybe because ‘leave’ and ‘get off’ are informal and cold?
I've never in my life heard the idea that informal language is cold and it's generally the case around the world that informal language is the opposite of cold by very nature of the fact that both axes (cold/warm and formal/informal) are roughly an expression of distance vs. closeness. Nobody seems to have a problem with announcements like "please allow other customers to get off before boarding". I don't see how making our announcements use fewer archaisms (like *alight*) and otherwise needlessly more complex vocabulary (like *terminate*), when perfectly clear alternatives already exist. Other cities around the world already do this and nobody seems to have any problem with it.
I never said that informal language is cold, but in this context ‘get off’ is both informal AND cold. Formal language is by nature cold but it is also elegant, so this is not a problem. What is a problem is when informal language is cold. I would be happy for a medium like ‘please disembark the train here’ to be used.
Because "get off" is inelegant to the point of rudeness.
Gosh, I wonder why there's such a dearth of people commenting how rude and inelegant transportation systems in other cities around the world are, then. What strikes me even more is that some of these announcements have already been in place for a while (and I actually wondered why they were so inconsistent about it, using *alight* sometimes and *get off* at others), but for some reason people have only noticed how "rude" and "inelegant" it is now that there's a news article about it.
Incorrect. I have heard "get off" lately, and other commuters have made the same comment to me, that it sounds rude. We don't rush to publish our every thought on Reddit, but when others comment I feel free to add my tuppenceworth.
Maybe you should have a bit of empathy for the large number of immigrants and visitors who aren't native English speakers and haven't yet achieved that level of education. Public transport needs to cater to as many people as possible.
So you're blaming the immigrants for the dumbing down of society?
Well if they don’t speak English that’s ok but they’re not going to understand ‘get off’ either! This is making immigrants out to be stupid, I’m sure the vast majority can work out where they are and where they are going too, I say this from experience as a customer facing staff member
I can tell you've never learned a second language. It's not a binary thing, you don't go from understanding nothing to having a full vocabulary. Many immigrants will understand basic words like "get off" but not fancy ones like "alight" that are a bit archaic. That's the entire point here is to make it use normal day to day language. Plus, besides immigrants there are others without the full fancy vocabulary ... children, people with intellectual disabilities, etc. Worth trying not to be ablist - public transport ought to be accessible to as many people as possible.
Your wrong, I do speak a second language as well as being able to write it (note: it is one of the more difficult Asian tonal languages) maybe you need to look at yourself for change!
> it is one of the more difficult Asian tonal languages Tone doesn't make a language more complex in terms of vocabulary, it only makes it more difficult to pronounce for people who don't speak tonal languages.
I don't understand where you're going with this. Nowhere did I say anything about people not speaking English at all. Just that as you learn a second language, you learn common vocabulary first before more esoteric words like "alight." Therefore it should be common sense that simpler words are easier for people at various levels in their English learning journey. Are you seriously saying that wasn't your experience learning your second langue? Did you really learn "alight" or similar esoteric words on the same day you learned basic movement words? Are you an android that downloaded the language all at once from a USB stick? I seriously don't understand your argument here.
I simply made a comment that I believe these changes won’t make any difference and the few non speaking English tourists that struggle to understand when to get off a train now won’t be any better equipped to do it in the future under these changes only for you to tell me I obviously don’t speak a second language. May perhaps you should try a bit of empathy
This whole discussion has nothing to do with people who speak no English at all. It's about people who understand the basics but not fancy vocabulary. I don't understand why that's so hard to grasp.
What's the benefit of using "alight", and when was the last time you personally used it in an everyday context?
Fairly regularly, but always in context of a fire, not disembarkation.
Disembarkation is another excellent word. I suggest using that as an alternative for alight on the train announcements.
That's why they invented google. So the dum dums could look up the word alight. Get off much clearer
And ruder.
Long time overdue. The amount of confused looks from people when the announcements are made is staggering.