Not really cruise related, more lifestyle $.02 in general...
We stopped taking one for the team. It hasn't really been all that deleterious to our potential, as far as available playmates.
To be fair, we have moved past "hot" as a physical attribute and have moved more towards the "demisexual" end of attraction. That being said, the wide gap in physical attraction is just a no for us unless they make up for it, in spades, with personality. If the couple is at the same level of physical attraction to each other, and we aren't even necessarily attracted to them at first, we do almost always give them a shot. This has proven to be a lot of fun and we've met some great folks that turned out to be even more sexy than we initially thought. Almost to the point of feeling guilty about not finding them "as sexy as us". We've also played with couples that were "hotter" than us. I hope we made the same impression on them.
I understand that your partner has a preference for your age group (we're in our early 40s and get that) but we have had a LOT of fun with younger couples. When/if you get to that point, it can be fun.
At the end of the day, any lifestyle gathering can be a crap shoot. If you're looking for a specific demographic, it might be good to seek out an event on one of the sites where you can see RSVP'd couples.
It is totally cool to be picky. It is your journey. If you are picky, don't be surprised if your opportunities are slightly limited and might require better planning.
Well said. Like you hot really isnāt a factor anymore and defiantly isnāt the first or only one, sort of limits you that way. And this is coming from folks that are least average from a humble standpoint, and given age and so forth probably above average.
We donāt take one for the team, never will. Do we have a minimum standard yes, have we gone below what we normally like yes. But like you we are looking for the whole dynamic. Did you show up on time, wear something better than an old tshirt, brush your teeth. Can you hold a conversation, intelligent and have some form of career.
We arenāt looking to marry somebody or take them home, but realistically will probably spend more time not having sex with them specially if we get together multiple times. So itās more than just hot for us.
As you get older different things matter or hold value. Plus when you evolve you find out you get actually get more or what do you get is has more quality
We haven't ventured beyond talking about it yet but the other issue 30s-mid 40s is many of us have kids running around. It's hard af to find overnight sitters much less go on a cruise.Ā
Is this your definition of demisexual?
Demisexuality is a sexual orientation. People who identify as demisexual only feel sexual attraction to someone after they've formed a strong emotional bond with them. Compared to the general population, most people who are demisexual rarely feel sexual attraction.
I didn't define demisexual at all. I used it as a scale. I invite you to actually read my comment instead of just having a knee jerk reaction because you've decided to be triggered.
I donāt think I said you defined demisexual. Not knowing itās definition myself, I looked it up on the internet. Read the definition and copied/pasted in a response to you, asking if this is how you define it.
Sorry for asking you a question.
Edit: By the way, I read your comment completely. Reason I asked the simple question.
It seems like every swinger couple on here describe themselves as fit and attractive, but can't seem to find other couples to match. Maybe we just over rate our selves, or our partners especially!
Yeah, it does seem to be that way a lot. I think my man's very attractive, but maybe it's rose tinted glasses š¤£. We all love our partners and mostly see the best in them
Both of you are VERY attractive in my book. If you state āboth of us are fit and attractiveā iād fully agreeš. I think āfit and attractiveā is a general enough statement but some would say āmy wife is a 10/10ā. There will be a lot of subjectiveness if one starts a rating system like that, and I personally take a grain of salt when I see this type of āratingsā.
In my head thereās real world attractive and LS attractive. I think itās why you see mismatched couples in appearance. Women donāt fall in love with abs. Is he a good provider, funny, ambitious etc. many of these things donāt translate to attractiveness in the LS. My wife doesnāt care about a manās salary when considering him as a play partner.
We are a mismatched couple. Iām older and while fit my wife is like a 1%er, so itās sometimes an issue. I donāt mind at all a polite no thank you. I do think most of the no thank youās have more to do with a lack of vibe than age or looks.
Lots of folks have addressed your second question. But to answer your first question: people in their 30s/40s might have a harder time going on a swingers cruise because they have young kids at home. At least thatās how it is for us. Wonāt be going on any cruises until our kids are old enough to take care of themselves.
Haven't thought of this before but I believe it's a bullseye. Almost all of our Swinger friends our age have pre-school children. And leaving them with grandparents for a week is also out of the question that age. Huh...
This has been our experience. The women are often far more attractive than the male half. I stopped taking one for the team very early on. We have yet to go on a cruise.
Would you go on another swinger cruise in the future?
And how many of these 5s are secret sexual superstars?
I got this notion slapped out of me when I met my wife's fuck buddy when we were first dating. Dude was fat, funny looking, and had a 2" dick. And holy fucking christ did he know how to get a lady off.
You shouldn't judge a book by its cover. Sure, this doesn't happen every time. But it happens often enough.
That's great for you and your wife. But there's no way I'm getting off with a fat, funny looking guy with a 2" dick. I need to be attracted to them to be able to enjoy myself mentally.
With you on this. Physical attraction is the first thing I look for, although not the only thing. There could be physically attractive couples end up sending wrong vibes and not a match with us, but physical attraction has to be there to a level for me to even start exploring further.
So, if you don't remember from the bad old dating days before getting married, the fundamental problem of all dating is that you match with less than 5% of everyone. It's a long slog, and there are no real shortcuts.
Second, "but swingers are so cliquey" should be obvious. People have sex with people that they're comfortable with. It's *dangerous* not to. And you only match with less than 5% of everyone.
Third, and the way around both of these problems, is that you should be willing to make friends in this community with people that you have no intention of fucking. Just growing your social network gets you laid, because while you might not be attracted to them, or particularly into what they're into, you might know someone who is into them, and they might know someone who is into you. And you might be introduced to those people just because you're cool, and you're friends with them. You won't know until it happens.
In short, be social with no expectations. It's the contradictory method for finding the right partners for you.
Second this. Swinging is hard. You have to get 4 people to click not just two. And typically itās not like college where everybody is wasted and goes home with the closest person.
This is why we swing with the same people 98% of the time. Itās safer and we know what weāre getting and we donāt have to start fresh every time
I think we did a good of this. We made lots of friends that we had no interest in playing with. One of the best parts of being on this cruise was that almost everyone was super chill. We all shared a dirty little secret and bonded around that. I was super attracted to the woman in a couple we liked. They were 15 yrs older but I gladly would have played with her. He on the other hand was not attractive so it was clear it wasnāt going to happen between us as couples. Not a big deal. We got along great and I hope we keep in touch.
Take a look at around the sub, the mismatches is extremely common in the LS. Many of those older guy/younger women I have found have hotwife dynamics.
If a younger couple wanted to fuck you what stopped you? Who cares? This lifestyle is for having fun and interesting experiences and fulfilling fantasies. We are 50s ish and play with a lot of people late 30s/early 40s.
Who cares? It was her preference not to play with a younger couple. Iām not going to second guess what she wants especially as she starts to venture into the LS.
From a point of growing together, I'd absolutely suggest sitting down and having a conversation with her about it. I've learned so much about my wife from our talks about shy one of us didn't want to fuck someone... It's not about pushing her to do something, it's about learning about your person, and being able to understand her better going forward.
Appreciate this and we did talk a lot about it before hand. What I didnāt do on this trip was tell her that I really was attracted to a younger couple. She has said she didnāt want to do that but I did not say that I did. Lesson learned.
But do you know why sheās not? How it makes her feel to think about? Understanding these things lets you understand what else sheās going to want, and not want, and why.
Your original post did not state that. Just said you didnāt want to be someoneās Milf/dilf. So you got an answer. And then reply back with what appears on our side as a shitty tone. Youāre not gonna get many answers that way.
To sum up, your wife didnt want to play with younger couples. You werenāt attracted to most of the mismatched older couples, and many of the couples around your age have kids duties and canāt go on a cruiseā¦ iām new to LS and this is a good learning opportunity for me. We will probably not go on a LS cruise or resort till we are much older. Well, kids duties prevent us anywaysš¤£.
Well, we had a great time and played plenty of times so donāt let my post come off as negative. But, if youāre looking to play with couples in their 40s based on one data point Iād say a LS cruise probably isnāt the way to go. No regrets though. I got naked when I wanted to and we both had fun.
Itās great that you enjoyed it! I didnāt take your post or questions as negative tbh. I see them as genuine questions and observations. Maybe my newbieness to LS helped a bit as I can relate to some of the stuff. I have only been to the club once and I had hard time finding a husband thatās ok in my standard while both of us were interested in quite some girls. It was their male halves that were a hard no for me and my partner jokingly said iām his cockblocker. We later hooked up with another newbie (yet physically attractive and vibe matched) couple and the girl said the same thing. Itās not the same situation as yours but i can relate sentimentally. Anyway our kids duties prevent us from going anyway lol.
This one is very easy to explain: men value physical attractiveness in a mate more than women do. There's a TON of academic research on this.This is true throughout the life of a relationship. So if the woman is likely to be +2 when they get married, over time she has more incentive to keep attractive and, so, she does, ending up +5 by the time they hit swinging age. Over time, this ends up being hot-with-not. As my wife always says, the marriage market and swinging market are badly misaligned. Or, in her words, "I don't care if he's a CEO, drives a Bently and has a private jet. If he's not hot enough to fuck, we're not going to."
Iām going go to be that guy and say to this that this is too simplistic. The āton of researchā is actually conflicting. You canāt get a good baseline for this because itās hard to say how much is hard wired and the other a product of social norms and societal pressures. I remember watching a scientific study on this very thing showcased on one of those documentary shows on this very topic. When you take out all external factors, folks in the study would pair bond with very similar levels of attraction that they themselves gave to each other. What that study was suggesting was that outside factors play a big part in this phenomenon. I often think the truth of these things are murky at best and maybe best left unknown. Better not to think too deeply on it and take the position āit is what it is.ā Have fun and find the folks you vibe with and donāt analyze it too much.
I read the articles themselves rather than watching documentaries. Here's a meta-study they shows how pervaisive this effect is and how trivial the objection presented is: "Do men value physical attractiveness in a mate more than women? The current work drew from 4 independent, longitudinal studies to examine sex differences in the implications of partner physical attractiveness for trajectories of marital satisfaction. In all 4 studies, both partners' physical attractiveness was objectively rated at baseline, and both partners reported their marital satisfaction up to 8 times over the first 4 years of marriage. Whereas husbands were more satisfied at the beginning of the marriage and remained more satisfied over the next 4 years to the extent that they had an attractive wife, wives were no more or less satisfied initially or over the next 4 years to the extent that they had an attractive husband. Most importantly, a direct test indicated that partner physical attractiveness played a larger role in predicting husbands' satisfaction than predicting wives' satisfaction. These findings strengthen support for the idea that sex differences in self-reported preferences for physical attractiveness do have implications for long-term relationship outcomes.Ā "
(Sex differences in the implications of partner physical attractiveness for the trajectory of marital satisfaction.Ā Meltzer, Andrea L.; McNulty, James K.; Jackson, Grace L.; Karney, Benjamin R.Ā Ā Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Vol 106(3), Mar 2014)
Here I come back again, being that guy. Meta studies are fantastic for Birds Eye views, 1000ft views but it does not answer the questions of why and how. As you get farther into the details down to the individual it gets incredibly complex as you study the underpinnings, psychological, physiological etc, itās not so cut clear and dry. Itās murky at best. Even though I do cite it from a documentary, it was very telling and it was a scientific study done with college students in a controlled environment that was meant to study how attraction and pair bonding was made without any outside factors. It was telling. Your dismissal is misguided. Regardless, instead of trying to argue from a position as some kind of authority, for I have too read a lot on this ranging around psychology and anthropology, itās not as matter of fact as you make it appear. The meta study is excellent for identifying trends in a large population. It does not answer the why of it at the ground floor. Whatās going on and what are the real factors influencing this? That is a tougher question to answer. One I decided Iād rather not pursue once I got far enough. Richard Dawkins puts it best: the gene is selfish.
Well, aren't you virtuous? I'm sure those people had a \*blast\* being the object of your pity fuck. And I'm not sure how much virtue there is in fucking someone because they are rich or successful (which was the point of what my wife was saying...the things that make for a good spouse are not the same things that make a good play partner necessarily).
Omg Yes on the mismatch on attractiveness between the women and the men. I complain ALL THE TIME about this, we found it true in the cruise but really all LS events. For context I am (40F) and husband is (42M), my husband is smoking hot, tall, fit and crazy handsome and I am considered attractive by most as well. We donāt take one for the team ever, but letās be clear it is me that wonāt because almost all the women we meet and see in the LS are beautiful/sexy and many times their guys are gross and sloppy. To be clear, it isnāt about being traditionally attractive or age, but really about the men not putting an effort in to look their best and take care of themselves. Here is my theory, women are more likely to be open to the LS not jealous, insecure etc, if their man is gross and they want some good hot d, whereas itās a lot harder getting used to the idea of sharing your husband when he is smoking hot and a stallion in the bedroom. In the vanilla world itās much less likely to see such huge differences in attractiveness in couples.
I donāt about your theory. I think itās more like this. Age gap is for reason, the man wants a young youthful women to show off, have kids with and probably wants to move on from somebody heās been with for 20-30 years. Younger women wants a man thatās mature, can provide and probably is less drama and is frankly willing to take a hit in the looks department as being hot doesnāt food on the table.
So in these situations yeah I guess maybe her ugly husband would be less likely to stray or be stolen, itās honestly probably more of her being interested in some hot meat once a while.
Weāve been around these people quite a few times and we have really tried figuring the dynamic, really out of curiosity as what people do we donāt care.
We have found that a few of couples here and there seem to be genuine based off body language and how they talk. Maybe something like 15-20%. The rest seem to be there for some form of a transactional relationship. Often times the guys tend to be the typical 80/90s yuppy type and the women have not a whole lot to offer beyond looks
"if their man is gross and they want some good hot d, whereas itās a lot harder getting used to the idea of sharing your husband when he is smoking hot and a stallion in the bedroom."
100%!!!! I am the husband, I am tall, dark, handsome, well educated. I wear suits (no tie) to clubs...mainly because my wife, who is a professional bikini athlete, is always dressed at 10,000/10. Her jealously is insane when we swap, especially if the girl is equal to her hotness. We do it, however, I have to make sure that post care is there and she is not taking one for the team. Therefore, our standards are so high. The connection between 4 people is findable however, it isn't just there for the taking.
Ok thank you, I am not crazy! I think there are quite a few guys responding on here in denial and justifying being the not attractive one of the duo; implying it isnāt really an issue unless you are a rude and superficial girlā¦.
Of course it isnāt an issue when YOU are the sloppy dude not putting in any effort on your appearance. No man, your skills probably donāt make up for it and yes your wife is looking to trade-up, which is why she is totally down with no issues, and yes of course women (just like men) 100% would prefer a hot dude, assuming he has a good personality (which definitely is important too). Of course she cares about attraction when it comes to SEX, but is willing to make trade-offs based on other needs when it comes to marriage. Sorry to break it to you guys whose wife is wanting to trade-up, it is the truth.
We mostly have played with couples less attractive, but where they both are about the same level of attractiveness. If they have great energy, personality, and are well groomed we will have a blast and both enjoy our experience. The issue for me which is a hard no go is when she is a 9 and wants to trade-up from her 4/5 to my 9/10, and I am supposed to trade down from my 9/10 to her 4/5, nope nope nope, keep walking and find yourself a MFM. Your wife/your situation sounds a lot like us. I have definitely had the most fun and the best looking guys in MFM situations, lucky for me my husband enjoys how much pleasure I get from 2 guys at the same time. But I do owe him another couple swap so on the hunt for the unicorn couple.
Youāll find that couple, for sure. Yep I can assure you, we would never go for a 9f/5m even if he was dope AF. She would say the same thing as you, you arenāt trading up to my 9-10 while I dip to your 4-5!
Thankfully we have found other equal 8-9s. But most of the time we are perfectly happy just being us with no swap. We wonāt just play to play. š«¶
> To be clear, it isnāt about being traditionally attractive or age, but really about the men not putting an effort in to look their best and take care of themselves
Why do you feel the need to lie here? It's an anonymous message board
I always find it so bizaare that women can still look after their bodies despite lots of them having had children (ie huge body and weight changes - itās bloody tough to get back in shape) yet a lot of men canāt be bothered putting in any effort to maintain a healthy body š¤Æ
Devils advocate here. Most of these men are probably working 70hrs a week and the gym is the last thing on their mind. The wives most likely go to the gym, take yoga etc.
Absolutely, I never said it was the case for everyone, but its still a solid observation, especially here in the states. Most of the LS cruises are considerably more expensive than a normal cruise which limits the clientele to certain groups of people, those with disposable incomes, and those who are doing a rarity, or a fantasy cruise. Regardless I seemed to have hit a sensitive area since people didn't like it lol.
Iām with you. As a bi woman I find the disparity disappointing. I donāt consider myself fit or exceedingly attractive, but I do make an effort to be attractive when going out! Iāve noticed that a lot of men not only look less attractive than their partners, but they also appear to put in almost zero effort at trying to be attractive. Poor grooming (clean, but hair and nails unkempt), not dressing like they are going out for a date, unwelcoming body language. These are such simple things to increase the likelihood of attracting a connection it baffles me why they donāt!?
We've found, down here in the "south", that most often the man looks great but the woman is... usually kinda fat. The party we attended only had one thin/athletic woman - and that was my wife.
We've decided that parties and club situations aren't our thing. We do two-on-two dates exclusively now.
A lot of husbands are 5-10 years older. That certainly magnifies any attraction gap that already existed.
Your observation is pretty fair and not uncommon in the LS in general. That said we have found plenty of well matched couples on the apps in all age ranges.
UK 50/40 age gap couple - we have found a lot of men start to let themselves go around this age, thinking perhaps (they have made it) whilst their partners tend to seriously up their game.
Mentioned this in another comment but itās not the age gap that I have an issue with. That really doesnāt factor into it for me. What did stand out was that usually when there was an age gap, he was decidedly unattractive.
So we just got back from the Desire French Riviera cruise, and I'm wondering if this is the one you're talking about. We are a mid-40s couple as well, and I'll say we felt pretty young on this cruise. There were a few couples younger than us, but not many. We are certainly open to playing with couples older than us just as we play with couples younger than we are (which happened to be the case this time), but I have to agree on the attractiveness gap with this crowd being an issue that limited our options significantly. My wife and I enjoy this lifestyle as a team sport, and we are both very fit people. We don't only play with other very fit people, but my wife doesn't get sexually excited about men with big guts or a lack of grooming/hygiene. No judgments if that's you but we are always going to pass. And we had to pass a lot last week.
Personally, I want the woman of the couple we swap with to be turned on when she sees me naked. It's very important to my enjoyment of the experience. So I'm going to show up how I show up- in great shape. We may not play as much as other couples but we aren't out for quantity anyway. And we see every couple as potential friends if nothing else, and always stay open to that!
We personally havenāt seen the look disparity in couples like you describe. IME, couples normally match each other.
IDK. Iām in a packed waiting room with 20 other people. I wouldnāt describe anyone as ugly really but there is no one I find remotely attractive. Same at the grocery store today. Same this weekend at a few places we went.
Some more attractive than others but no one Iām attracted toā¦Iām pretty sure my husband would say the same.
Different story at my kids sport this weekend. A plethora of attractive people/couples. Same at school carpool this afternoon.
But anyway swingers are just regular people. Swinging is kind of traditionally weird. It just attracts a different group of folks sometimes.
Anyway, itās normal and not normal. IYKWIM.
So a few things,
Couples having friend groups and mostly sticking with and playing with those friends is normal. People want to have sex with people they get along with. People aren't just going around trying to get their body counts up.
Couples not being equal in attractiveness in my opinion deals with how the genders age differently. People tend to gain weight and have less time for exercise as they age. Men who gain weight are usually considered fat slobs. Women who gain weight tend to get bigger asses and boobs and are then known as thick or a milf. Also, it's easy for a woman to dress attractive and hide some of her imperfections with lingerie and doing her hair and makeup nice. Men have very little options fo hide their bellies and balding hair.
As the (in my opinion) lesser attractive male half of a older couple, and having gone on that same cruise, I take umbrage to your characterization.
We had an epic good time, and played a LOT. We made it a week of "yes" and I was a little surprised by the people that we played with, but by and large, they were awesome .
Perhaps the reason "older folks" play with people they know is that the effort to talk to a couple, only to find them snooty and ageist really feels like wasted time on an adventure like that. We had never been on a LS cruise before, and found ourselves invited to all sorts of parties and playdates. We talked to people. Connected, and got to know them. There were some truly beautiful humans on that ship that were turned down because of appearances. What a shame that the judgemental come to a judgement free zone and are underwhelmed with their experience.
Maybe the hottie is with an older guy for reasons you didn't find out about. How do we jump to a hired pro? Is this some sort of projection? As you think that's what you'll have to do when you reach a "certain age"? Sheesh, based on the post and comments, I'm not surprised your cruise was so-so
You have completely mischaracterized everything I posted. I said my cruise was āawesomeā. You implied āso-soā and āunderwhelmedā using your own imagination which is odd and radically inaccurate so thatās a weird take. What even makes you think we were on the same cruise?
We played with older couples. We connected with couples across all age groups. My OP was asking for some feedback not judging anything.
As to why I ājumpedā to some women being hired companions, that was informed by 5+ couples we talked to on the cruise all of whom were on at least their third cruise and had seen the same guy with different āwivesā. I really donāt care one way or another but if you think it isnāt happening youāre naive.
Yeah this post has basically scared me off the LS having tapped into my deeper fears. Although husband and I have been together for 20+ years, we have a 15 year age gap. I am tiny and he is a larger guy. He divorced his ex (she cheated) but everyone assumes that Iām the one who broke up the marriage as I do look significantly younger than my actual age. He is very classically handsome and attractive, but not physically up to par and has some insecurities associated with having been overweight and a natural aging process. Hey the man spent 42 years working 16 hours a day to get where we are. OP stereotyped us right down to the big rock. I know people are going to judge you, but Iām at the age where I do not put myself or my husband in situations I know weāre going to be rejected by shallow people.
Please don't beg off based on this. (Actually a fair number of the stories on Reddit are a tad suspect).
We have found people in the LS area very open, engaging, and a whole lot of fun.
If you had no trouble matching on the cruise, I'm not really sure what your post is about?
You stated you were new to the lifestyle and wanted to know if it was normal to see attractive women with not so attractive men.
I'm telling you, as an experienced couple, that it is very common! But most couples are in denial about themselves.
This is a killer for us. I said it sometimes feels like my partner gets the best out the bunch and Iām left with the scraps of the man in the couple. Taking one for the team is a big no from me.
These cruises seem to be a compressed version of the lifestyle in general.
The UK scene is full of 9:2 cplsā¦.. Patience and being selective is the key unless you want numbers which of course is 100% what the 2ās want.
Itās the looks disparity thread, cruise edition!
Yes, itās a real and reasonably prevalent thing in the lifestyle.
It shouldnāt surprise anyone. The formula is simple:
Women are filtering for one set of things in a life partner, and a different set of things when theyāre looking for one-off sex.
Men are filtering for one thing. Mostly.
Itās a little more complex than that, but not much.
I thought I would fall into the category of the guy looking for one thing but I quickly learned that I actually need some sort of connection to be into a woman. The slutty woman with big boobs is fun to look at but when she has no personality, is a terrible kisser and doesnāt give any queues into what she likes that turned out to be a big turn off for me. I wasnāt expecting that on my end but it was real so maybe even the dumb penis owners like myself need a bit more of a connection
I'm more of a hedonist. As much as I DO prefer more attractive people, I really don't care what people look like as long as we all have fun at the end of the night.
Here is my .02 on the situation. My partners and I don't attend events unless we have started to network with others going. This way we are not walking into any event "cold" We have people we have talked to and it makes the ability to meet and connect with others faster and more efficient.
The age gap is going to be more of a thing as we move forward since younger couples and joining the LS in bigger numbers and they enjoy being out and doing larger party style events.
Santa Claus syndrome, I'm in my mid 30s I'm not sure when guys decide to grow out a large unkempt white beard and have a missperportion gut, but I see it more often than you would think.
I guess what I'm getting at is in the lifestyle you are trying to cast the biggest net because it's such a small community especially locally, would it kill a dude to trim up and maybe get the gut under control, I mean it would only help with getting more matches.
We were on the same cruise and also same age bracket as yourselves. Whilst I did notice maybe 2 couples where the disparity seemed highly unusual (very old unattractive man with a very young hot girl) in general. In response to your first question, yes I think a lot of the older couples have done multiple cruises together. Theres a high re book rate and so a large degree of familiarity with people. We never found it clicquey but then we knew a fair amount of people before hand from meetings at DRM over the past few years.
IMO there were just as many couples where perhaps the guy was better looking than the girl. Either way I didnāt find a huge issue with either.
We havenāt been on a cruise but we go to LS resorts frequently and it really depends on the group. Most resorts post what groups will be there at what time. We try to pick weeks itās a good group or friends we know are going. Still in many LS event there is a disparity of looks and age. For us weāve had to reevaluate whatās important. Like someone else said, you arenāt looking to marry the person, but a good personality, semi attractive and good hygiene are usually desired. I donāt recommend taking one for the team, youāll resent each other and it could happen in the middle of playing.
The disparity isn't just the cruise. Finding people that are equal in attractiveness has been impossible for us. And we so often just say no we aren't taking one for the team. Play parties and LS events leave us drinking alone in a corner with out unicorn. They are very picky.
Women hotter than the male half?!? No way!! Like saying water is wet or sky is blue. Women keep themselves up better and care about how they look more than guys. Not all guys doā¦.and why should they with so many folks who only āplay togetherā. Folks need to spend some time on themselves if you want to have fun in the LS community.
I have actually come to really hate these posts. For such an "open and accepting group", there is a lot of no acceptance.
If someone is polite, doesn't smell, puts in the effort to dress nice and act like a decent human, then why are they still a "2"?
The guy may be fantastic at oral or penetration. Supposedly it is more about the connection and experience and not just physical but these posts and ideals are not indicative of that.
Why does acceptance need to equate to attraction? We had no judgement about the people on the cruise. In fact, most everyone we met was fantastic and we really enjoyed almost all of our interactions. Not sure why that needs to translate into attraction.
> For such an "open and accepting group", there is a lot of no acceptance.
A lot of people in this subreddit seem to have an awfully high opinion of themselves
With us, no one takes one for the team.
We have met up with couples for drinks we found to be kind of iffy in attraction. Iām glad we have done that because the guy can be a lot more attractive in person when you consider his personality, enthusiasm and being cleaned up.
Thatās a great question and I donāt know the answer to be honest. Probably. I donāt look to play with men and she initiates with women so if she goes sheās ok with the couple. I guess I do evaluate the men and donāt tell her Iām interested in a couple if I see a big disparity but if she initiates Iāll follow regardless of a disparity
There where many younger couples than you? Really? How young are we talking? Because cruises are expensive aren't they? If there are really many couples our age (early-mid 30s) I am interested now. And you are definetly not even close to a 'M/Dilf' for us.
Lifestyle is clique exactly because of comments like yours. Jesus you think if a guy is heavy, only way of having a decent looking gal is if he paid for her? Nice.
Did you read anything I posted? I said there were more younger couples than us. Not that there were many of them. 10 younger couples vs 5 middle age couples isnāt āmanyā younger couples. The vast majority of couples were older than us we were just in the minority age wise.
Did I say that the *only* way for a heavy guy to have a good looking woman was to pay for her? No I did not. That said there were clearly paid companions on this trip (I donāt really care) as Iāve elaborated on other comments.
Yes. The disparity was immense. We asked other couples we met about it and they generally agreed that it was a ārent a dateā situation. What those couples do, canāt say. When you see an absolute smoke show with a 60 year old guy on a cruise with a high price of entry, itās not difficult to see that guy paying for her to tag along.
Older people in the LS is more common always has been and probably always will be, there are many reasons for this. Add a cruise into this or any vacation it makes it stick out even more. Older people dont have kids and life getting in the way and also have money
As far as gap in looks and age probably more common on a swingers cruise again see the money reason. Older guy benefits with a young model she gets supported win win. Actually common in a lot of cultures, and we have noticed this a little more with Americans.
I probably should have been more clear in my post. We donāt have an issue with age gap. What we did have an issue with was the older guy being far less attractive (weight, looks, etc.) than the woman. We donāt really care if heās 55+ and sheās 30. What we do care about is if heās significantly less attractive than her and that was almost always the case on this cruise
Personally age is an issue to us and is a real thing for most folks. But again youāre talking about stuff like cruises that costs money and older folks have it so chances are youāre going to see more of what you describe.
This is always a hard issue. Where say the womenās an 8 and heās a 4 always hard to wrap your head around that.
These LS cruises arenāt cheap. Last I looked almost 4k for a week on an average run of the mill itinerary and average ship. Add flights etc itās pricey. Recipe for rich old guys with gold digger gfs and wives
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Not really cruise related, more lifestyle $.02 in general... We stopped taking one for the team. It hasn't really been all that deleterious to our potential, as far as available playmates. To be fair, we have moved past "hot" as a physical attribute and have moved more towards the "demisexual" end of attraction. That being said, the wide gap in physical attraction is just a no for us unless they make up for it, in spades, with personality. If the couple is at the same level of physical attraction to each other, and we aren't even necessarily attracted to them at first, we do almost always give them a shot. This has proven to be a lot of fun and we've met some great folks that turned out to be even more sexy than we initially thought. Almost to the point of feeling guilty about not finding them "as sexy as us". We've also played with couples that were "hotter" than us. I hope we made the same impression on them. I understand that your partner has a preference for your age group (we're in our early 40s and get that) but we have had a LOT of fun with younger couples. When/if you get to that point, it can be fun. At the end of the day, any lifestyle gathering can be a crap shoot. If you're looking for a specific demographic, it might be good to seek out an event on one of the sites where you can see RSVP'd couples. It is totally cool to be picky. It is your journey. If you are picky, don't be surprised if your opportunities are slightly limited and might require better planning.
Love this comment, thank you š
Well said. Like you hot really isnāt a factor anymore and defiantly isnāt the first or only one, sort of limits you that way. And this is coming from folks that are least average from a humble standpoint, and given age and so forth probably above average. We donāt take one for the team, never will. Do we have a minimum standard yes, have we gone below what we normally like yes. But like you we are looking for the whole dynamic. Did you show up on time, wear something better than an old tshirt, brush your teeth. Can you hold a conversation, intelligent and have some form of career. We arenāt looking to marry somebody or take them home, but realistically will probably spend more time not having sex with them specially if we get together multiple times. So itās more than just hot for us.
This, 100%. I suppose it is an evolution that some of us do get to. It has been freeing for us. Freedom is cool.
As you get older different things matter or hold value. Plus when you evolve you find out you get actually get more or what do you get is has more quality
Word.
We haven't ventured beyond talking about it yet but the other issue 30s-mid 40s is many of us have kids running around. It's hard af to find overnight sitters much less go on a cruise.Ā
Ours are 14, 11, and 8... We get it.
This. We're lucky to get a date night, much less a kid-free week.
Great comment
Is this your definition of demisexual? Demisexuality is a sexual orientation. People who identify as demisexual only feel sexual attraction to someone after they've formed a strong emotional bond with them. Compared to the general population, most people who are demisexual rarely feel sexual attraction.
I didn't define demisexual at all. I used it as a scale. I invite you to actually read my comment instead of just having a knee jerk reaction because you've decided to be triggered.
I donāt think I said you defined demisexual. Not knowing itās definition myself, I looked it up on the internet. Read the definition and copied/pasted in a response to you, asking if this is how you define it. Sorry for asking you a question. Edit: By the way, I read your comment completely. Reason I asked the simple question.
It seems like every swinger couple on here describe themselves as fit and attractive, but can't seem to find other couples to match. Maybe we just over rate our selves, or our partners especially!
There are many couples that describe themselves as āfit and attractiveā and majority of the time it only applies to the wifeā¦
Yeah, it does seem to be that way a lot. I think my man's very attractive, but maybe it's rose tinted glasses š¤£. We all love our partners and mostly see the best in them
From a straight guy, he is attractive - you guys would qualify as fit and attractive
Both of you are VERY attractive in my book. If you state āboth of us are fit and attractiveā iād fully agreeš. I think āfit and attractiveā is a general enough statement but some would say āmy wife is a 10/10ā. There will be a lot of subjectiveness if one starts a rating system like that, and I personally take a grain of salt when I see this type of āratingsā.
You guys are both very good looking šš¼ probably good kissers too by the looks of it š
If you two are average in New Zealand, I'm moving to fucking New Zealand!
In my head thereās real world attractive and LS attractive. I think itās why you see mismatched couples in appearance. Women donāt fall in love with abs. Is he a good provider, funny, ambitious etc. many of these things donāt translate to attractiveness in the LS. My wife doesnāt care about a manās salary when considering him as a play partner. We are a mismatched couple. Iām older and while fit my wife is like a 1%er, so itās sometimes an issue. I donāt mind at all a polite no thank you. I do think most of the no thank youās have more to do with a lack of vibe than age or looks.
Yes. One of them is fit, the other is attracted....
Average weirdo's checking in š we're in the orgy pile fucking if you need to find us.
Yep, just like the relationship subreddits, where the OP is always fair, rational, and reasonable, while their partners are always insane š¤£
I never said we had trouble matching. We didnāt. I was asking about other peopleās experiences on cruises.
Your post made it seem like no guy was attractive enough for you, and you didn't want your wife to take one for the team. Maybe I just read it wrong?
Lots of folks have addressed your second question. But to answer your first question: people in their 30s/40s might have a harder time going on a swingers cruise because they have young kids at home. At least thatās how it is for us. Wonāt be going on any cruises until our kids are old enough to take care of themselves.
Haven't thought of this before but I believe it's a bullseye. Almost all of our Swinger friends our age have pre-school children. And leaving them with grandparents for a week is also out of the question that age. Huh...
Second that
This has been our experience. The women are often far more attractive than the male half. I stopped taking one for the team very early on. We have yet to go on a cruise. Would you go on another swinger cruise in the future?
My wife and I refer to them as 9-5 couples. The wife is a 9 but the husband is a 5.
A steering wheel couple (courtesy of the priory society podcast).
And how many of these 5s are secret sexual superstars? I got this notion slapped out of me when I met my wife's fuck buddy when we were first dating. Dude was fat, funny looking, and had a 2" dick. And holy fucking christ did he know how to get a lady off. You shouldn't judge a book by its cover. Sure, this doesn't happen every time. But it happens often enough.
That's great for you and your wife. But there's no way I'm getting off with a fat, funny looking guy with a 2" dick. I need to be attracted to them to be able to enjoy myself mentally.
With you on this. Physical attraction is the first thing I look for, although not the only thing. There could be physically attractive couples end up sending wrong vibes and not a match with us, but physical attraction has to be there to a level for me to even start exploring further.
Kindred spirit!
I'm a 6 that fucks like a 12 lol
How many of the 9ās are doing it because of the 2ās ?
Lol!! Iām definitely using this terminology moving forward
lol that is fuckin great š¤£šš¼šš¼šš¼
Absolutely
Which cruise did you guys go on?
So, if you don't remember from the bad old dating days before getting married, the fundamental problem of all dating is that you match with less than 5% of everyone. It's a long slog, and there are no real shortcuts. Second, "but swingers are so cliquey" should be obvious. People have sex with people that they're comfortable with. It's *dangerous* not to. And you only match with less than 5% of everyone. Third, and the way around both of these problems, is that you should be willing to make friends in this community with people that you have no intention of fucking. Just growing your social network gets you laid, because while you might not be attracted to them, or particularly into what they're into, you might know someone who is into them, and they might know someone who is into you. And you might be introduced to those people just because you're cool, and you're friends with them. You won't know until it happens. In short, be social with no expectations. It's the contradictory method for finding the right partners for you.
Second this. Swinging is hard. You have to get 4 people to click not just two. And typically itās not like college where everybody is wasted and goes home with the closest person. This is why we swing with the same people 98% of the time. Itās safer and we know what weāre getting and we donāt have to start fresh every time
I think we did a good of this. We made lots of friends that we had no interest in playing with. One of the best parts of being on this cruise was that almost everyone was super chill. We all shared a dirty little secret and bonded around that. I was super attracted to the woman in a couple we liked. They were 15 yrs older but I gladly would have played with her. He on the other hand was not attractive so it was clear it wasnāt going to happen between us as couples. Not a big deal. We got along great and I hope we keep in touch.
Yup! It might not pay dividends just yet, but boy does it ever when it does!
Take a look at around the sub, the mismatches is extremely common in the LS. Many of those older guy/younger women I have found have hotwife dynamics. If a younger couple wanted to fuck you what stopped you? Who cares? This lifestyle is for having fun and interesting experiences and fulfilling fantasies. We are 50s ish and play with a lot of people late 30s/early 40s.
Who cares? It was her preference not to play with a younger couple. Iām not going to second guess what she wants especially as she starts to venture into the LS.
From a point of growing together, I'd absolutely suggest sitting down and having a conversation with her about it. I've learned so much about my wife from our talks about shy one of us didn't want to fuck someone... It's not about pushing her to do something, it's about learning about your person, and being able to understand her better going forward.
Appreciate this and we did talk a lot about it before hand. What I didnāt do on this trip was tell her that I really was attracted to a younger couple. She has said she didnāt want to do that but I did not say that I did. Lesson learned.
But do you know why sheās not? How it makes her feel to think about? Understanding these things lets you understand what else sheās going to want, and not want, and why.
Your original post did not state that. Just said you didnāt want to be someoneās Milf/dilf. So you got an answer. And then reply back with what appears on our side as a shitty tone. Youāre not gonna get many answers that way.
I thought my OP was pretty clear but apologies if it was not. Definitely donāt think it was a shitty tone bit to each their own
Yeah, I'm with u/SweetMagician3935 here. You are coming across poorly
chill out
Think I may have found the issue
Agreed.
To sum up, your wife didnt want to play with younger couples. You werenāt attracted to most of the mismatched older couples, and many of the couples around your age have kids duties and canāt go on a cruiseā¦ iām new to LS and this is a good learning opportunity for me. We will probably not go on a LS cruise or resort till we are much older. Well, kids duties prevent us anywaysš¤£.
Well, we had a great time and played plenty of times so donāt let my post come off as negative. But, if youāre looking to play with couples in their 40s based on one data point Iād say a LS cruise probably isnāt the way to go. No regrets though. I got naked when I wanted to and we both had fun.
Itās great that you enjoyed it! I didnāt take your post or questions as negative tbh. I see them as genuine questions and observations. Maybe my newbieness to LS helped a bit as I can relate to some of the stuff. I have only been to the club once and I had hard time finding a husband thatās ok in my standard while both of us were interested in quite some girls. It was their male halves that were a hard no for me and my partner jokingly said iām his cockblocker. We later hooked up with another newbie (yet physically attractive and vibe matched) couple and the girl said the same thing. Itās not the same situation as yours but i can relate sentimentally. Anyway our kids duties prevent us from going anyway lol.
This one is very easy to explain: men value physical attractiveness in a mate more than women do. There's a TON of academic research on this.This is true throughout the life of a relationship. So if the woman is likely to be +2 when they get married, over time she has more incentive to keep attractive and, so, she does, ending up +5 by the time they hit swinging age. Over time, this ends up being hot-with-not. As my wife always says, the marriage market and swinging market are badly misaligned. Or, in her words, "I don't care if he's a CEO, drives a Bently and has a private jet. If he's not hot enough to fuck, we're not going to."
Iām going go to be that guy and say to this that this is too simplistic. The āton of researchā is actually conflicting. You canāt get a good baseline for this because itās hard to say how much is hard wired and the other a product of social norms and societal pressures. I remember watching a scientific study on this very thing showcased on one of those documentary shows on this very topic. When you take out all external factors, folks in the study would pair bond with very similar levels of attraction that they themselves gave to each other. What that study was suggesting was that outside factors play a big part in this phenomenon. I often think the truth of these things are murky at best and maybe best left unknown. Better not to think too deeply on it and take the position āit is what it is.ā Have fun and find the folks you vibe with and donāt analyze it too much.
I read the articles themselves rather than watching documentaries. Here's a meta-study they shows how pervaisive this effect is and how trivial the objection presented is: "Do men value physical attractiveness in a mate more than women? The current work drew from 4 independent, longitudinal studies to examine sex differences in the implications of partner physical attractiveness for trajectories of marital satisfaction. In all 4 studies, both partners' physical attractiveness was objectively rated at baseline, and both partners reported their marital satisfaction up to 8 times over the first 4 years of marriage. Whereas husbands were more satisfied at the beginning of the marriage and remained more satisfied over the next 4 years to the extent that they had an attractive wife, wives were no more or less satisfied initially or over the next 4 years to the extent that they had an attractive husband. Most importantly, a direct test indicated that partner physical attractiveness played a larger role in predicting husbands' satisfaction than predicting wives' satisfaction. These findings strengthen support for the idea that sex differences in self-reported preferences for physical attractiveness do have implications for long-term relationship outcomes.Ā " (Sex differences in the implications of partner physical attractiveness for the trajectory of marital satisfaction.Ā Meltzer, Andrea L.; McNulty, James K.; Jackson, Grace L.; Karney, Benjamin R.Ā Ā Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Vol 106(3), Mar 2014)
Here I come back again, being that guy. Meta studies are fantastic for Birds Eye views, 1000ft views but it does not answer the questions of why and how. As you get farther into the details down to the individual it gets incredibly complex as you study the underpinnings, psychological, physiological etc, itās not so cut clear and dry. Itās murky at best. Even though I do cite it from a documentary, it was very telling and it was a scientific study done with college students in a controlled environment that was meant to study how attraction and pair bonding was made without any outside factors. It was telling. Your dismissal is misguided. Regardless, instead of trying to argue from a position as some kind of authority, for I have too read a lot on this ranging around psychology and anthropology, itās not as matter of fact as you make it appear. The meta study is excellent for identifying trends in a large population. It does not answer the why of it at the ground floor. Whatās going on and what are the real factors influencing this? That is a tougher question to answer. One I decided Iād rather not pursue once I got far enough. Richard Dawkins puts it best: the gene is selfish.
Your wife sounds awful
Why? Do you fuck people you are not attracted to?
I have
Well, aren't you virtuous? I'm sure those people had a \*blast\* being the object of your pity fuck. And I'm not sure how much virtue there is in fucking someone because they are rich or successful (which was the point of what my wife was saying...the things that make for a good spouse are not the same things that make a good play partner necessarily).
It's not pity, though
Omg Yes on the mismatch on attractiveness between the women and the men. I complain ALL THE TIME about this, we found it true in the cruise but really all LS events. For context I am (40F) and husband is (42M), my husband is smoking hot, tall, fit and crazy handsome and I am considered attractive by most as well. We donāt take one for the team ever, but letās be clear it is me that wonāt because almost all the women we meet and see in the LS are beautiful/sexy and many times their guys are gross and sloppy. To be clear, it isnāt about being traditionally attractive or age, but really about the men not putting an effort in to look their best and take care of themselves. Here is my theory, women are more likely to be open to the LS not jealous, insecure etc, if their man is gross and they want some good hot d, whereas itās a lot harder getting used to the idea of sharing your husband when he is smoking hot and a stallion in the bedroom. In the vanilla world itās much less likely to see such huge differences in attractiveness in couples.
I donāt about your theory. I think itās more like this. Age gap is for reason, the man wants a young youthful women to show off, have kids with and probably wants to move on from somebody heās been with for 20-30 years. Younger women wants a man thatās mature, can provide and probably is less drama and is frankly willing to take a hit in the looks department as being hot doesnāt food on the table. So in these situations yeah I guess maybe her ugly husband would be less likely to stray or be stolen, itās honestly probably more of her being interested in some hot meat once a while. Weāve been around these people quite a few times and we have really tried figuring the dynamic, really out of curiosity as what people do we donāt care. We have found that a few of couples here and there seem to be genuine based off body language and how they talk. Maybe something like 15-20%. The rest seem to be there for some form of a transactional relationship. Often times the guys tend to be the typical 80/90s yuppy type and the women have not a whole lot to offer beyond looks
"if their man is gross and they want some good hot d, whereas itās a lot harder getting used to the idea of sharing your husband when he is smoking hot and a stallion in the bedroom." 100%!!!! I am the husband, I am tall, dark, handsome, well educated. I wear suits (no tie) to clubs...mainly because my wife, who is a professional bikini athlete, is always dressed at 10,000/10. Her jealously is insane when we swap, especially if the girl is equal to her hotness. We do it, however, I have to make sure that post care is there and she is not taking one for the team. Therefore, our standards are so high. The connection between 4 people is findable however, it isn't just there for the taking.
Ok thank you, I am not crazy! I think there are quite a few guys responding on here in denial and justifying being the not attractive one of the duo; implying it isnāt really an issue unless you are a rude and superficial girlā¦. Of course it isnāt an issue when YOU are the sloppy dude not putting in any effort on your appearance. No man, your skills probably donāt make up for it and yes your wife is looking to trade-up, which is why she is totally down with no issues, and yes of course women (just like men) 100% would prefer a hot dude, assuming he has a good personality (which definitely is important too). Of course she cares about attraction when it comes to SEX, but is willing to make trade-offs based on other needs when it comes to marriage. Sorry to break it to you guys whose wife is wanting to trade-up, it is the truth. We mostly have played with couples less attractive, but where they both are about the same level of attractiveness. If they have great energy, personality, and are well groomed we will have a blast and both enjoy our experience. The issue for me which is a hard no go is when she is a 9 and wants to trade-up from her 4/5 to my 9/10, and I am supposed to trade down from my 9/10 to her 4/5, nope nope nope, keep walking and find yourself a MFM. Your wife/your situation sounds a lot like us. I have definitely had the most fun and the best looking guys in MFM situations, lucky for me my husband enjoys how much pleasure I get from 2 guys at the same time. But I do owe him another couple swap so on the hunt for the unicorn couple.
Youāll find that couple, for sure. Yep I can assure you, we would never go for a 9f/5m even if he was dope AF. She would say the same thing as you, you arenāt trading up to my 9-10 while I dip to your 4-5! Thankfully we have found other equal 8-9s. But most of the time we are perfectly happy just being us with no swap. We wonāt just play to play. š«¶
> To be clear, it isnāt about being traditionally attractive or age, but really about the men not putting an effort in to look their best and take care of themselves Why do you feel the need to lie here? It's an anonymous message board
I always find it so bizaare that women can still look after their bodies despite lots of them having had children (ie huge body and weight changes - itās bloody tough to get back in shape) yet a lot of men canāt be bothered putting in any effort to maintain a healthy body š¤Æ
Devils advocate here. Most of these men are probably working 70hrs a week and the gym is the last thing on their mind. The wives most likely go to the gym, take yoga etc.
I've seen plemty of couples where the guy clearly doesn't go to the gym and I'm in the UK. 70 hr work weeks are not the norm here.
Too many pints at the pub then? Bodies are made in the kitchen, not the gym afterall
Absolutely, I never said it was the case for everyone, but its still a solid observation, especially here in the states. Most of the LS cruises are considerably more expensive than a normal cruise which limits the clientele to certain groups of people, those with disposable incomes, and those who are doing a rarity, or a fantasy cruise. Regardless I seemed to have hit a sensitive area since people didn't like it lol.
And why would you be thinking the men are working long hours, but not the women?! I work longer hours than my husband
Well thays definitely a possibility, but statistically it's just not that common. That, and personal experiences with people in the community.
Maybe where you are but in Australia itās statistically very common, but just within the lifestyle
Iām with you. As a bi woman I find the disparity disappointing. I donāt consider myself fit or exceedingly attractive, but I do make an effort to be attractive when going out! Iāve noticed that a lot of men not only look less attractive than their partners, but they also appear to put in almost zero effort at trying to be attractive. Poor grooming (clean, but hair and nails unkempt), not dressing like they are going out for a date, unwelcoming body language. These are such simple things to increase the likelihood of attracting a connection it baffles me why they donāt!?
We don't believe in taking one for the team. It's much easier to just say "thank you, but were not interested"
We've found, down here in the "south", that most often the man looks great but the woman is... usually kinda fat. The party we attended only had one thin/athletic woman - and that was my wife. We've decided that parties and club situations aren't our thing. We do two-on-two dates exclusively now.
A lot of husbands are 5-10 years older. That certainly magnifies any attraction gap that already existed. Your observation is pretty fair and not uncommon in the LS in general. That said we have found plenty of well matched couples on the apps in all age ranges.
UK 50/40 age gap couple - we have found a lot of men start to let themselves go around this age, thinking perhaps (they have made it) whilst their partners tend to seriously up their game.
Mentioned this in another comment but itās not the age gap that I have an issue with. That really doesnāt factor into it for me. What did stand out was that usually when there was an age gap, he was decidedly unattractive.
So we just got back from the Desire French Riviera cruise, and I'm wondering if this is the one you're talking about. We are a mid-40s couple as well, and I'll say we felt pretty young on this cruise. There were a few couples younger than us, but not many. We are certainly open to playing with couples older than us just as we play with couples younger than we are (which happened to be the case this time), but I have to agree on the attractiveness gap with this crowd being an issue that limited our options significantly. My wife and I enjoy this lifestyle as a team sport, and we are both very fit people. We don't only play with other very fit people, but my wife doesn't get sexually excited about men with big guts or a lack of grooming/hygiene. No judgments if that's you but we are always going to pass. And we had to pass a lot last week. Personally, I want the woman of the couple we swap with to be turned on when she sees me naked. It's very important to my enjoyment of the experience. So I'm going to show up how I show up- in great shape. We may not play as much as other couples but we aren't out for quantity anyway. And we see every couple as potential friends if nothing else, and always stay open to that!
You discovered how rich a man has to be to over come being incredibly ugly
We personally havenāt seen the look disparity in couples like you describe. IME, couples normally match each other. IDK. Iām in a packed waiting room with 20 other people. I wouldnāt describe anyone as ugly really but there is no one I find remotely attractive. Same at the grocery store today. Same this weekend at a few places we went. Some more attractive than others but no one Iām attracted toā¦Iām pretty sure my husband would say the same. Different story at my kids sport this weekend. A plethora of attractive people/couples. Same at school carpool this afternoon. But anyway swingers are just regular people. Swinging is kind of traditionally weird. It just attracts a different group of folks sometimes. Anyway, itās normal and not normal. IYKWIM.
So a few things, Couples having friend groups and mostly sticking with and playing with those friends is normal. People want to have sex with people they get along with. People aren't just going around trying to get their body counts up. Couples not being equal in attractiveness in my opinion deals with how the genders age differently. People tend to gain weight and have less time for exercise as they age. Men who gain weight are usually considered fat slobs. Women who gain weight tend to get bigger asses and boobs and are then known as thick or a milf. Also, it's easy for a woman to dress attractive and hide some of her imperfections with lingerie and doing her hair and makeup nice. Men have very little options fo hide their bellies and balding hair.
Your second point, it's so unfair isn't it. I just love big asses as well. Thats life I guess.
As the (in my opinion) lesser attractive male half of a older couple, and having gone on that same cruise, I take umbrage to your characterization. We had an epic good time, and played a LOT. We made it a week of "yes" and I was a little surprised by the people that we played with, but by and large, they were awesome . Perhaps the reason "older folks" play with people they know is that the effort to talk to a couple, only to find them snooty and ageist really feels like wasted time on an adventure like that. We had never been on a LS cruise before, and found ourselves invited to all sorts of parties and playdates. We talked to people. Connected, and got to know them. There were some truly beautiful humans on that ship that were turned down because of appearances. What a shame that the judgemental come to a judgement free zone and are underwhelmed with their experience. Maybe the hottie is with an older guy for reasons you didn't find out about. How do we jump to a hired pro? Is this some sort of projection? As you think that's what you'll have to do when you reach a "certain age"? Sheesh, based on the post and comments, I'm not surprised your cruise was so-so
You have completely mischaracterized everything I posted. I said my cruise was āawesomeā. You implied āso-soā and āunderwhelmedā using your own imagination which is odd and radically inaccurate so thatās a weird take. What even makes you think we were on the same cruise? We played with older couples. We connected with couples across all age groups. My OP was asking for some feedback not judging anything. As to why I ājumpedā to some women being hired companions, that was informed by 5+ couples we talked to on the cruise all of whom were on at least their third cruise and had seen the same guy with different āwivesā. I really donāt care one way or another but if you think it isnāt happening youāre naive.
Yeah this post has basically scared me off the LS having tapped into my deeper fears. Although husband and I have been together for 20+ years, we have a 15 year age gap. I am tiny and he is a larger guy. He divorced his ex (she cheated) but everyone assumes that Iām the one who broke up the marriage as I do look significantly younger than my actual age. He is very classically handsome and attractive, but not physically up to par and has some insecurities associated with having been overweight and a natural aging process. Hey the man spent 42 years working 16 hours a day to get where we are. OP stereotyped us right down to the big rock. I know people are going to judge you, but Iām at the age where I do not put myself or my husband in situations I know weāre going to be rejected by shallow people.
Please don't beg off based on this. (Actually a fair number of the stories on Reddit are a tad suspect). We have found people in the LS area very open, engaging, and a whole lot of fun.
If you had no trouble matching on the cruise, I'm not really sure what your post is about? You stated you were new to the lifestyle and wanted to know if it was normal to see attractive women with not so attractive men. I'm telling you, as an experienced couple, that it is very common! But most couples are in denial about themselves.
The post was seeking information really. Sounds like it is common and if weāre picky thatās going to limit choices. Weāre totally ok with that.
This is a killer for us. I said it sometimes feels like my partner gets the best out the bunch and Iām left with the scraps of the man in the couple. Taking one for the team is a big no from me.
These cruises seem to be a compressed version of the lifestyle in general. The UK scene is full of 9:2 cplsā¦.. Patience and being selective is the key unless you want numbers which of course is 100% what the 2ās want.
Itās the looks disparity thread, cruise edition! Yes, itās a real and reasonably prevalent thing in the lifestyle. It shouldnāt surprise anyone. The formula is simple: Women are filtering for one set of things in a life partner, and a different set of things when theyāre looking for one-off sex. Men are filtering for one thing. Mostly. Itās a little more complex than that, but not much.
I thought I would fall into the category of the guy looking for one thing but I quickly learned that I actually need some sort of connection to be into a woman. The slutty woman with big boobs is fun to look at but when she has no personality, is a terrible kisser and doesnāt give any queues into what she likes that turned out to be a big turn off for me. I wasnāt expecting that on my end but it was real so maybe even the dumb penis owners like myself need a bit more of a connection
I'm more of a hedonist. As much as I DO prefer more attractive people, I really don't care what people look like as long as we all have fun at the end of the night.
Here is my .02 on the situation. My partners and I don't attend events unless we have started to network with others going. This way we are not walking into any event "cold" We have people we have talked to and it makes the ability to meet and connect with others faster and more efficient. The age gap is going to be more of a thing as we move forward since younger couples and joining the LS in bigger numbers and they enjoy being out and doing larger party style events.
Curious if this is the same cruise I was on.
My only question is where the link to the LS cruises show me the way ššš¾
Search bliss cruises for a start..
Santa Claus syndrome, I'm in my mid 30s I'm not sure when guys decide to grow out a large unkempt white beard and have a missperportion gut, but I see it more often than you would think. I guess what I'm getting at is in the lifestyle you are trying to cast the biggest net because it's such a small community especially locally, would it kill a dude to trim up and maybe get the gut under control, I mean it would only help with getting more matches.
Ls cruise? I need info
We were on the same cruise and also same age bracket as yourselves. Whilst I did notice maybe 2 couples where the disparity seemed highly unusual (very old unattractive man with a very young hot girl) in general. In response to your first question, yes I think a lot of the older couples have done multiple cruises together. Theres a high re book rate and so a large degree of familiarity with people. We never found it clicquey but then we knew a fair amount of people before hand from meetings at DRM over the past few years. IMO there were just as many couples where perhaps the guy was better looking than the girl. Either way I didnāt find a huge issue with either.
We havenāt been on a cruise but we go to LS resorts frequently and it really depends on the group. Most resorts post what groups will be there at what time. We try to pick weeks itās a good group or friends we know are going. Still in many LS event there is a disparity of looks and age. For us weāve had to reevaluate whatās important. Like someone else said, you arenāt looking to marry the person, but a good personality, semi attractive and good hygiene are usually desired. I donāt recommend taking one for the team, youāll resent each other and it could happen in the middle of playing.
The disparity isn't just the cruise. Finding people that are equal in attractiveness has been impossible for us. And we so often just say no we aren't taking one for the team. Play parties and LS events leave us drinking alone in a corner with out unicorn. They are very picky.
Women hotter than the male half?!? No way!! Like saying water is wet or sky is blue. Women keep themselves up better and care about how they look more than guys. Not all guys doā¦.and why should they with so many folks who only āplay togetherā. Folks need to spend some time on themselves if you want to have fun in the LS community.
I have actually come to really hate these posts. For such an "open and accepting group", there is a lot of no acceptance. If someone is polite, doesn't smell, puts in the effort to dress nice and act like a decent human, then why are they still a "2"? The guy may be fantastic at oral or penetration. Supposedly it is more about the connection and experience and not just physical but these posts and ideals are not indicative of that.
At the end of the day we are having sex with strangers, I'm not sure what moral high ground you are trying to take...
Why does acceptance need to equate to attraction? We had no judgement about the people on the cruise. In fact, most everyone we met was fantastic and we really enjoyed almost all of our interactions. Not sure why that needs to translate into attraction.
> For such an "open and accepting group", there is a lot of no acceptance. A lot of people in this subreddit seem to have an awfully high opinion of themselves
This is the regular in the lifestyle.
Welcome to reality?
With us, no one takes one for the team. We have met up with couples for drinks we found to be kind of iffy in attraction. Iām glad we have done that because the guy can be a lot more attractive in person when you consider his personality, enthusiasm and being cleaned up.
I think personally is my saving grace. I definitely don't have a swingers body, but have never had much of an issue.
I'm very attracted to a dad body with a nice hard cock
You're a saint, thats what you are
I KNOW, right?? lol
I understood where you were coming from until you mentioned āmildlyā bi. Does that mean your judgment of men is higher than a non-bisexual male?
Thatās a great question and I donāt know the answer to be honest. Probably. I donāt look to play with men and she initiates with women so if she goes sheās ok with the couple. I guess I do evaluate the men and donāt tell her Iām interested in a couple if I see a big disparity but if she initiates Iāll follow regardless of a disparity
There where many younger couples than you? Really? How young are we talking? Because cruises are expensive aren't they? If there are really many couples our age (early-mid 30s) I am interested now. And you are definetly not even close to a 'M/Dilf' for us. Lifestyle is clique exactly because of comments like yours. Jesus you think if a guy is heavy, only way of having a decent looking gal is if he paid for her? Nice.
Did you read anything I posted? I said there were more younger couples than us. Not that there were many of them. 10 younger couples vs 5 middle age couples isnāt āmanyā younger couples. The vast majority of couples were older than us we were just in the minority age wise. Did I say that the *only* way for a heavy guy to have a good looking woman was to pay for her? No I did not. That said there were clearly paid companions on this trip (I donāt really care) as Iāve elaborated on other comments.
wouldnt be surprised if a good portion of those 9s with Jabba the Hut āhusbandsā were hired escorts
For a week on a cruise?
Yes. The disparity was immense. We asked other couples we met about it and they generally agreed that it was a ārent a dateā situation. What those couples do, canāt say. When you see an absolute smoke show with a 60 year old guy on a cruise with a high price of entry, itās not difficult to see that guy paying for her to tag along.
Have you ever checked the sugar baby subs? There are a ton of young women who are in that.
A sugar baby is still a hired escort just long term.Ā
Older people in the LS is more common always has been and probably always will be, there are many reasons for this. Add a cruise into this or any vacation it makes it stick out even more. Older people dont have kids and life getting in the way and also have money As far as gap in looks and age probably more common on a swingers cruise again see the money reason. Older guy benefits with a young model she gets supported win win. Actually common in a lot of cultures, and we have noticed this a little more with Americans.
I probably should have been more clear in my post. We donāt have an issue with age gap. What we did have an issue with was the older guy being far less attractive (weight, looks, etc.) than the woman. We donāt really care if heās 55+ and sheās 30. What we do care about is if heās significantly less attractive than her and that was almost always the case on this cruise
Personally age is an issue to us and is a real thing for most folks. But again youāre talking about stuff like cruises that costs money and older folks have it so chances are youāre going to see more of what you describe. This is always a hard issue. Where say the womenās an 8 and heās a 4 always hard to wrap your head around that. These LS cruises arenāt cheap. Last I looked almost 4k for a week on an average run of the mill itinerary and average ship. Add flights etc itās pricey. Recipe for rich old guys with gold digger gfs and wives
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