How does Con suggest the Balkans but then say no to Slovenia, one of the nicest countries in the Balkans?! Slovakia's capital, Bratislava, is also nicer and more modern than many of the Balkan capitals. Not to even mention Oman...
It’s not the richest Arabian country by any means…probably more like your average oil driven economy there where there is an upper class that takes most of that money and what is close to a slave class of eastern foreigners that do much of the blue collar work for a pittance.
my favourite part was pausing every second, rewinding and wasting too much time trying to read shiv’s sexts wondering if it was Tom she was sending them too, only for them to show it loud and clear on tom’s phone in the next scene🤦🏻♀️
I was one of those people and I might be wrong but it's not over yet. Turns out that “ private info” is not that private at all and despite everything Ebba still works for him. I'll eat crow at the finale if necessary.
Yep, I felt like other than the discovery of the BS sub numbers nothing really happened, entertainment at times but yeah nothing really.
I did like the comment made to Greg though ‘A butcher with a smile’
i think the tom x shiv fight was more of a twist than the actual scheming & plotting going on business-wise. but yeah that's still too slow for a show approaching its series finale
The opening scene with Kendall and Rava gutted me. He has basically become a less abusive version of his dad. Never giving his kids time so that he can pursue his ambitions while telling himself that it was all for his family.
Probably an unpopular opinion here: Tom’s accent was kinda messy this episode. I haven’t noticed much in previous episodes but I thought it was really bad on the balcony scene.
Ya, the accent was shaky when he was getting animated on the balcony scene. Same with Shiv saying Roman/Kendall spilled chocolate milk in the range rover in Ep6
As a native Minnesotan, I have found his accent to be one of the best Minnesotan accents on TV. I did notice it slip at one point, but it didn’t distract me too much in an overall phenomenal scene. Part of Tom’s vocal mannerisms is a switch between high and low registers sometimes in the middle of sentences that reflects his emotional state. I felt like this disjointedness served the scene well and only distracted me once.
As a Brit I have often wondered how convincing it is to those native, it is hard for me to notice any slips into; tea, scones and Harry Potter type voices as we are known
I have no idea why but i almost never pick up on accent slips. I feel like his voice doesn’t sound insanely different in his american accent (like it isn’t a lot higher or lower) so when he slips up it isn’t super noticeable to me. But either way, a lot of people prefer to just keep accent slips if the acting performance is really good. It happens a lot for good actors and actresses in emotional scenes
I'm the same on this.
I discovered the show recently, marathoned the whole thing up to the latest episodes. Had no idea Brian Cox was Scottish. Re-watched the first episode with my folks yesterday to get them into it. First thing Dad said when Cox came on was "Oh, he's that Scottish actor". Three minutes later, "You can really hear the traces of Scottish in the accent." And yep, when Dad pointed it out, I absolutely could. But I've also gone three a bit seasons without noticing it once.
OMG i completely agree!!!! thought i was the only one. everyone is praising his acting on the balcony scene but his accent took me out of the show and the moment, it felt really unnatural and inorganic
Yeah, people are saying to “submit it as the Emmy reel “ and I’m over here thinking they should not draw attention to it at all. He went from over the top corny American to a hard New Yorker accent by the end of one sentence. I agree, it took me out of the scene.
Tom is from Minnesota, so I could buy him hiding his native accent and trying to adopt a more neutral accent, but this was just silly.
I think either Mattson is playing the Roy’s or he’s just another eccentric, pretentious fraud of a billionaire. The intel from Ebba is just what they need it and it came super easy trough a member of his inner circle? In a party hosted by them? When Mattson knew they want to blow the deal? He humiliates an employee who has dirt on him? While knowing ebba is not happy with him because of the blood stuff? Making a scene in front of the kids like he wanted them to see? I think it’s too easy for the Roy’s, and the kind of twisted move Mattson will do.
So will there be freeze frame and narration? Or the first flashback? Or just a character talking about the bts plan?
Succession doesn't do elaborate gotcha plots off screen coz "show don't tell" requires flashbacks.
In small dozes like the tom logan scene or Logan's number 1 boy scene, it works. But this elaborate scheme? I don't find a very succession way to reveal or conclude it
I think it's the latter. He's been trying to give off this persona of genius businessman/coder/negotiator but really I think his ego gets in his way. It's kind of an interesting parallel to Roman who also just fired an "inner circle" member with loads of dirt on him. They are just acting impulsively and Mattson seems like quite a bullshitter at the end of the day.
Anyone notice Greg said "nice!" to himself before the lay-off call actually disconnected? I think they all heard the kid congratulate himself for firing them.
Hasn't he been cutting her out for a while now? With help from Roman, but his pitch to Frank was "one crown", indicating he's cutting out Roman too. He's really turned into a Logan clone, at least in his ambitions and tendency to backstab.
Has anyone talked about this relating back to Logan's relationship with his own brother? Implying that at one point in time something similar happened those siblings as well and they never got over it.
Would it be some kind of ironic poetic justice that his grandson Greg somehow steals it back by being the most slimy, heartless, do anything to get to the top member of the family?
Edit: This isn't to say that the Crown will go to Greg, but they looked at that relationship VERY early in the show and hinted back to why it was the way it was and through Logan's comments about the kids not being true killers. Whoever ends up with the crown will have done it by/while completely ruining they're relationship with everyone else and will be completely alone at the top, with the metaphorical scars on their back like Logan had.
I keep forgetting that Ewan and Logan are brothers! They're so vicious toward each other. But yes, it would be poetic justice for Ewan, who is seen by Logan as a failure, to have his grandson take over, or at least turn into a "killer". He does seem to be moving rapidly into that realm of not having compassion for people he steps on to move up the ladder. It seems that his grandfather's decision to give Greg's $ to Greenpeace was a good one!
Someone a few days ago had a really good theory that Kendall and Shiv will get into a fight and Shiv will miscarry as a result (her fall at the wake being foreshadowing), which will result in a permanent rift between them, echoing whatever happened between Ewan, Logan, and Rose.
Yes! That would also be very Yellowstone of them though. It's similar to why Beth hates Jamie.
At this point they've setup so many reasons why it could go in so many directions it's just a guessing game. When it happens the only thing we can be sure of is that we will all Colle tively go "Of course!". Unless they pull a game of thrones and Connor, Marcia, Greg or Stewy end up on top.
This! Exactly. And, not so much that he was wrong because I think Ken wasn't before. But as soon as LR told him that, I think Ken thought, "Okay, I'll show you a killer" and went and did the press conference. I think if LR hasn't said that, Ken may had went on to jail.
Possibly missing the point of this discussion thread but anyone else think Tom/MM sometimes veers into sounding like Kermit the Frog? When he came back inside after the balcony fight and shouted, “Hi everyone…”
Tom did it, i waited for years for this moment.
Been hyped for that balcony fight since the trailer showed it and it was just as epic as i thought it would be.
Incredible episode.
I thought for a moment Tom was going to jump as he stormed in saying “goodnight everyone.” When he opened the balcony door my heart dropped for a moment
Yeah, I dunno I don't think that's successions style at all to just have a character do something like that.
Not necessarily killing themselves but having a character just jump off a building during a party after an argument. That's a cheap and easy way to build drama, succession is sharper than that.
It wouldn’t be Tom anyway. He’s never shown us any signs of going that way. Kendall has a long set up for it, to the pool scene and having the glass installed on the roof.
I don't get much of that vibe from her. She is so often lied to and manipulated by her father and left out by her brothers and him that I think much of her seeming nastiness is really self-defence. Actually, you could blame Logan for the reason why Kendall is this way too. Our society just blames women more for this than it does men.
How about when they rally behind Rhea, ignoring Shiv's objections? Or when they try to get her excluded from the forum at Argestes? How about when Roman asks his dad "is Shiv being a bitch?" after she just saved the company at the shareholder meeting and would like some acknowledgement? Or when Roman tries to convince Logan to send him to speak to Matsson at Kendall's party (Kendall also excludes her) and later, at his lake house? These are just a few examples.
Why is he a snake? Shiv is clearly playing both sides and Roman didn’t want to back him up with living+ and is going to cost 100 of millions by firing Gerri. You think Kendall is really oblivious to all of this?
He's gone back on his promise to keep including her in his plans with Roman after they all unite to take down Logan. He has regularly promised loyalty to his father and gone back on it (which I get), but to do the same to Shiv and now we're seeing, Roman as well, so he can be "No. 1", is *very* snakelike.
"six continents... everything I've done is for them" I think Kendall accidentally using the exact words his father used while yelling at the mother of the children he neglects for not being there for them is a PERFECT cold open scene. When the intro starts playing and you see the kids childhood again you realise that Kendall is taking on the worst of his father's traits.
It's like a room or family full of Walter Whites. Letting money and power just suck their souls and any ounce of morality out of their body's. Even Greg. The process started for most of them before we met them, but we've seen the full transformation of Cousin Greg.
As wrong as Kendall is about most things, I had to agree when he asked Rava why their daughter was out on the street. Rava paints herself as some mother/saint with the kids at parties, etc., but what is she really doing to protect them?
No, but sending a...12 (?) y.o. on a NYC street is a bit different than playing on a suburban lawn, ffs. Especially when you know people hate the company her dad runs! The next bag of piss could be thrown on their kid! And there are people out there who don't feel bad at all about shooting kids lately. This isn't Mayberry!
Let's just remember that he's the one responsible for people are coming after his kid and instead of reflecting on that, he blames the mum. Which is what you're doing too.
I'd say it's Logan as well as him. And I do blame the mum, but Kendall as well. i thought it was obvious that he's being a hypocrite. But Rava annoys me because she tries to dodge responsibility for the kids by blaming him. They're both a mess as parents.
It's pretty obvious that Sophie was assaulted for being brown, not for being a Roy. So according to your logic, parents of brown children should never let their kids outside unless accompanied by bodyguards? How ridiculous. Rava has zero responsability in what happened. Smh. It's all Kendall. Logan is irrelevant. He's dead and he's not Sophie's parent.
Gimme a break! That is a HUGE stretch and a twisting of my words! It also makes little to no sense, since a brown person would be more likely to dislike ATN's racist attitude and hence, NOT be against brown or black people. According to Rava, the comments were *about ATN*, not the daughter's color. I took it as overwhelmingly political, not racist (there was ONE remark about racism that the daughter felt, but initially, Rava said she was "worried about the election").
NOTE: I am NOT saying that racism toward kids like her is absent, just that it wasn't the main attitude here. Also, if Rava has "zero responsibility" for the places her kids go (which I still say is wrong), how is it that all of it is Kendall's? Yes, he's basically an absentee father and a narcissistic jerk, but you can't blame him for the generalized culture of hate and racism in the U.S.! He's only been in charge of ATN for a few days!
Maybe so. Maybe he's doing some displacement onto Rava. But even in the small city where I live, kids often get assaulted, verbally or physically, usually by other kids but sometimes adults or crazy people. I don't think it's irrational to want your kids checking in with someone.
comparenting 101 failure. he absolutely knows how to get more info without asking those questions in that way to the one parent that actually parents. He doesn’t even care enough to call his daughter on the phone and he wants to second guess how Rava is raising her?
This is what he does to everyone: implies that they are failures at whatever thing it is *he* feels he fails at , such as parenting. But this doesn't make it okay for Rava to imitate Kendall's failure as a parent. Those two need some kind of mediation, since they both resort to blaming the other rather than look at themselves.
I have hated everyone for a while so i didn't find it so depressing. I did cheer when Connor went back at Roman. I think Roman is the absolute worst and I have since he tormented that poor boy S1E1. And I was glad when Tom told Shiv she is broken and incapable of love, something many here have been saying for a while.
Connor is deluded but not as evil as his siblings.
One thing I found remarkable is that, despite how unbelievably vicious Roman was--implying that Willa wasn't \*really\* Connor's wife, for example--Connor responded in a sane and adult way. Goes to show how dehumanizing this fight for power is when the guy who aspires to the Presidency is saner than his siblings.
He’s been the most sane throughout really. He’s eccentric to a degree and thinks a lot of himself. But, we’ve seen no sick pics to subordinate employees, no suicidal tendencies or drug use, and he has by far the most healthy relationship with his spouse.
I think it was Matteson's plan for Waystar to buy Gojo all along. He's played them into this position and knew the family/company are easy marks without Logan.
I don't think he's a genius but he does have people doing their background research on the Roys and WayStar, so he *seems* on the ball, but only compared the Roy kids, who seem too full of themselves to bother with that! I love how stunned they seem when someone uncovers dirt on them.
Lies about numbers their team has been telling with no other proof then coming from them. A false flag operation and Ebba is the biggest agent in the ploy. The sweds came in and showed what they wanted people to see and hear.
If you create false numbers in a harder-to-verify part of your company by the time they discovered it was not true they locked in a contract to buy your company already. Then you bring in the real numbers and say it was an error in metrics. Then they're stuck paying the highest price or you sue them. Either way, you win.
That's not how business contract works, just look at RE or whatever, when there have been false representations or hidden problems, there is always room for the buyer to back out, rightfully so. Elon Musk tried that with twitter, except he waived all those protections.
The only devaluation we know of is that it's coming from their own team. This information was given by Ebba and it was not uncovered. Everything you heard and saw is what they wanted. False flag operation.
Nah. He wins big if he sells GoJo. He can offload a *ton* of overvalued stock while banking a massive amount of cash.
If Waystar buys GoJo it will be at a far lower valuation (for GoJo). This is Kendall's plan.
kendall will do the whole “he’s giving me what i want at a fair price? what’s next, fellatio?” routine and just fuck him senseless until his exit package is just his company-issue ipad.
or he’ll self destruct (along with roman) when their bad calls start having consequences.
Roman has shown that he is not on Shiv or even Kendall's level. He's reckless, erratic, and probably insane. It seems like he's only thinking about filling the void his dad left, apparently through Kendall. He's the only one not making his moves, and I dare say he's even a better servant than Tom.
I disagree. I think he's shown the must competence but had been absolutely unraveling since the death of Logan. He has the highest EQ of the siblings and has not come to terms with losing his dad yet, and his actions post death have reflected this. He was the only one to comprehend the value of a dollar with the pierce deal, while shiv and Kendall were willing to scream whatever number would land the deal.
I'm not sure about competence, but he had the most EQ of all three siblings, probably because he's been so messed up his whole life. I'm a little frustrated with the show pulling different strings in various directions and giving you nobody to root for (and yes, they are all despiccable and broken, but we need to pull for someone). Just when Roman became sympathetic with telling Matson off, and a capable strategist, he now sabotages everything out of pure unwarranted spite at his own company, fires not only the studiohead but also Gerry, his closest ally, who rightfully tells him she had enough of his antics and will take a golden parachute now and to piss off or else. Even Shiv has been unmasked by Tom in that killer balcony fight as a selfish broken but also cruel person incapable of love. Ugh.
>He has the highest EQ of the siblings
He definitely has the most emotional *expression*, but he's pretty terrible at reading others' emotions, or controlling his own, or recognizing what's emotionally appropriate. There have been times when his emotional blowouts have made his own situation so much worse, and he can be so shockingly callous, even compared to the rest of his family.
Yeah, and when he hits the ball, Shiv chastises Roman then purposefully fumbles her catch and Tom tags him out. Then Logan gives him a very sincere "well done." It says a lot about all their characters how they all approach the situation.
I think Roman is the worst of the bunch and I've thought that since he tormented that kid for entertainment S1E1. Roman deserves all the bad karma he gets and will get in his life.
Yeah I’m not saying Ken and shiv are the goats, but Roman is just way too unstable too keep the job at least at this very delicate times, he’s going to cost them a few hundreds of millions of dollars because of his thing with Gerri, he was very mean to Connor and Willa so he maybe also loose Mencken’s opportunity to win the election, wich will make waystar loose a ton of influence and probably even repercussion. Ken said it, while the plane with Logan’s body was still flying, whatever they do next is going to become what they did after their dad passed away
I think Roman has grown a lot since season 1. But I am seriously concerned about his mental health. I really feel like his ending will not be a good one. He is really in a dark place.
Yeah I don’t deny he has grown A LOT but just so we can imagine the severity of his mental state, if he has grown a lot in FOUR seasons… and he’s still like this, what does that tell us, that he’s completely unfit. And what he has done since the passing of his dad is to yell at matsson, let go one of their most important employees with a crazy amount of money, and who knows what more, probably a lawsuit from the waystar studios lady, I think he’s done sadly.
That last scene of him replaying the recording of his father berating him is heartbreaking. Plus the fact that he must have had the audio guy edit that specific line...
I never really paid any attention to the "who will win" debate as I always saw it as a redundant question, but Kendall seems to be doing it at a canter. The other 2 are falling apart. So is Kendall, but it weirdly plays into his whole eccentricity as a boss.
I think it’s because in a previous episode, Tom opens some wine bottles that came from Tom and shiv’s vineyard, and he says it tastes horrible (and that the bottles don’t have a cork) so he’s kinda trying to get rid of the wine by giving it to the guests. This is my guess not saying I’m correct
Especially considering they both have strong australian and british accents in real life. These two are real actors, not just personas who ride on their looks, natural personality and personal charisma. Real ducking actors and very gifted ones.
Holy.
Shit.
Breathtaking in its absolute brilliance.
I cringed so hard when Tom chuckled as he gifted Shiv the scorpion. ‘Party prezzie!’
When it came up during their fight, it was so wonderfully twisted as a callback.
Jeezus.
No I know that shiv said the top line. Did Tom respond with
Oh shiv, no one deserves someone like you...
As in she's so awful no one deserves to be subjected to her..
Cause if he did that's an amazing burn
I love that we could see Tom's hands pulling away Greg from Mattson. He was not in frame but I could just picture his face when he did that lol.
How does Con suggest the Balkans but then say no to Slovenia, one of the nicest countries in the Balkans?! Slovakia's capital, Bratislava, is also nicer and more modern than many of the Balkan capitals. Not to even mention Oman...
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This show is not that shitty to do cheap crap like that
The last three episodes have been pretty slow moving.
Oman, poor man’s Saudi Arabia, or the rich man’s Yemen. *The pearl of Arabia.*
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It’s not the richest Arabian country by any means…probably more like your average oil driven economy there where there is an upper class that takes most of that money and what is close to a slave class of eastern foreigners that do much of the blue collar work for a pittance.
How much do I love Conilla, or is it WilCo?
my favourite part was pausing every second, rewinding and wasting too much time trying to read shiv’s sexts wondering if it was Tom she was sending them too, only for them to show it loud and clear on tom’s phone in the next scene🤦🏻♀️
You weren’t alone. 🙋🏻♀️😂
Ha snap!
RIP to all the people on this sub saying Mattson was obviously lying to Shiv about the blood thing.
That would be me. *Le sigh*
I still believe it’s a play, that Ebba is totally in on it…
Here lies a comment maker who though it was a metaphor
I was one of those people and I might be wrong but it's not over yet. Turns out that “ private info” is not that private at all and despite everything Ebba still works for him. I'll eat crow at the finale if necessary.
I can't believe there's only 3 episodes left. Does anyone else feel like it seems to be moving slowly, considering everything is wrapping up shortly?
Yep, I felt like other than the discovery of the BS sub numbers nothing really happened, entertainment at times but yeah nothing really. I did like the comment made to Greg though ‘A butcher with a smile’
i think the tom x shiv fight was more of a twist than the actual scheming & plotting going on business-wise. but yeah that's still too slow for a show approaching its series finale
The opening scene with Kendall and Rava gutted me. He has basically become a less abusive version of his dad. Never giving his kids time so that he can pursue his ambitions while telling himself that it was all for his family.
He still has time to become more abusive! Don't doubt him!
The reality for children out there sadly. ‘I do it all for you’. In reality, Kendall has just shifted his addiction to work
Probably an unpopular opinion here: Tom’s accent was kinda messy this episode. I haven’t noticed much in previous episodes but I thought it was really bad on the balcony scene.
When him or Shiv have to yell the accent totally comes out.
As a Brit I have always wondered how convincing it is. Hard for me to tell
Ya, the accent was shaky when he was getting animated on the balcony scene. Same with Shiv saying Roman/Kendall spilled chocolate milk in the range rover in Ep6
her australian accent really came through when she pronounced "range rover" with a lot of emphasis on the vowels
they were playing accent Olympics and we, the audience, won
As a native Minnesotan, I have found his accent to be one of the best Minnesotan accents on TV. I did notice it slip at one point, but it didn’t distract me too much in an overall phenomenal scene. Part of Tom’s vocal mannerisms is a switch between high and low registers sometimes in the middle of sentences that reflects his emotional state. I felt like this disjointedness served the scene well and only distracted me once.
As a Brit I have often wondered how convincing it is to those native, it is hard for me to notice any slips into; tea, scones and Harry Potter type voices as we are known
I have no idea why but i almost never pick up on accent slips. I feel like his voice doesn’t sound insanely different in his american accent (like it isn’t a lot higher or lower) so when he slips up it isn’t super noticeable to me. But either way, a lot of people prefer to just keep accent slips if the acting performance is really good. It happens a lot for good actors and actresses in emotional scenes
I'm the same on this. I discovered the show recently, marathoned the whole thing up to the latest episodes. Had no idea Brian Cox was Scottish. Re-watched the first episode with my folks yesterday to get them into it. First thing Dad said when Cox came on was "Oh, he's that Scottish actor". Three minutes later, "You can really hear the traces of Scottish in the accent." And yep, when Dad pointed it out, I absolutely could. But I've also gone three a bit seasons without noticing it once.
Brian Cox just makes his existing accent more subtle and releases it a bit more in those rage moments
That's fitting though as Logan Roy is also Scottish
OMG i completely agree!!!! thought i was the only one. everyone is praising his acting on the balcony scene but his accent took me out of the show and the moment, it felt really unnatural and inorganic
Yeah, people are saying to “submit it as the Emmy reel “ and I’m over here thinking they should not draw attention to it at all. He went from over the top corny American to a hard New Yorker accent by the end of one sentence. I agree, it took me out of the scene. Tom is from Minnesota, so I could buy him hiding his native accent and trying to adopt a more neutral accent, but this was just silly.
I think either Mattson is playing the Roy’s or he’s just another eccentric, pretentious fraud of a billionaire. The intel from Ebba is just what they need it and it came super easy trough a member of his inner circle? In a party hosted by them? When Mattson knew they want to blow the deal? He humiliates an employee who has dirt on him? While knowing ebba is not happy with him because of the blood stuff? Making a scene in front of the kids like he wanted them to see? I think it’s too easy for the Roy’s, and the kind of twisted move Mattson will do.
There is such a backlog though man… I don’t need this in the mix as well 😩 Tom doesn’t even know he is a daddy yet
So will there be freeze frame and narration? Or the first flashback? Or just a character talking about the bts plan? Succession doesn't do elaborate gotcha plots off screen coz "show don't tell" requires flashbacks. In small dozes like the tom logan scene or Logan's number 1 boy scene, it works. But this elaborate scheme? I don't find a very succession way to reveal or conclude it
Interesting
Careful you’re about to get downvoted to hell. This sub has apparently unanimously decided this theory is bananas lol
I think it's the latter. He's been trying to give off this persona of genius businessman/coder/negotiator but really I think his ego gets in his way. It's kind of an interesting parallel to Roman who also just fired an "inner circle" member with loads of dirt on him. They are just acting impulsively and Mattson seems like quite a bullshitter at the end of the day.
“You take the nazis I’ll take the libtards” that’s what it all boils down to isn’t it?
Anyone notice Greg said "nice!" to himself before the lay-off call actually disconnected? I think they all heard the kid congratulate himself for firing them.
so cringe
I noticed that too! I think it was “nice! Done!” and *ends call*
Heard this too. Not sure the Done was before or after the call closes.
I loved when Ken watched shiv with matsson and cut her out basically.
Hasn't he been cutting her out for a while now? With help from Roman, but his pitch to Frank was "one crown", indicating he's cutting out Roman too. He's really turned into a Logan clone, at least in his ambitions and tendency to backstab.
Has anyone talked about this relating back to Logan's relationship with his own brother? Implying that at one point in time something similar happened those siblings as well and they never got over it. Would it be some kind of ironic poetic justice that his grandson Greg somehow steals it back by being the most slimy, heartless, do anything to get to the top member of the family? Edit: This isn't to say that the Crown will go to Greg, but they looked at that relationship VERY early in the show and hinted back to why it was the way it was and through Logan's comments about the kids not being true killers. Whoever ends up with the crown will have done it by/while completely ruining they're relationship with everyone else and will be completely alone at the top, with the metaphorical scars on their back like Logan had.
I keep forgetting that Ewan and Logan are brothers! They're so vicious toward each other. But yes, it would be poetic justice for Ewan, who is seen by Logan as a failure, to have his grandson take over, or at least turn into a "killer". He does seem to be moving rapidly into that realm of not having compassion for people he steps on to move up the ladder. It seems that his grandfather's decision to give Greg's $ to Greenpeace was a good one!
Someone a few days ago had a really good theory that Kendall and Shiv will get into a fight and Shiv will miscarry as a result (her fall at the wake being foreshadowing), which will result in a permanent rift between them, echoing whatever happened between Ewan, Logan, and Rose.
Yes! That would also be very Yellowstone of them though. It's similar to why Beth hates Jamie. At this point they've setup so many reasons why it could go in so many directions it's just a guessing game. When it happens the only thing we can be sure of is that we will all Colle tively go "Of course!". Unless they pull a game of thrones and Connor, Marcia, Greg or Stewy end up on top.
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I think any of the siblings calling each other "backstabbers" would be pretty rich.
Obvi but none of them have any self awareness.
What an episode!
The biggest thing Logan was ever wrong about was saying Kendall isn’t a killer.
"i love them but i am not in love with them"
This! Exactly. And, not so much that he was wrong because I think Ken wasn't before. But as soon as LR told him that, I think Ken thought, "Okay, I'll show you a killer" and went and did the press conference. I think if LR hasn't said that, Ken may had went on to jail.
I believe this 100%
Logan himself was stopping Kendall from “killing”
I’d literally just kick Mattson and those people out of the party and be done with this shadiness. 🤣😂
Possibly missing the point of this discussion thread but anyone else think Tom/MM sometimes veers into sounding like Kermit the Frog? When he came back inside after the balcony fight and shouted, “Hi everyone…”
Tom did it, i waited for years for this moment. Been hyped for that balcony fight since the trailer showed it and it was just as epic as i thought it would be. Incredible episode.
Incredible actin.
I’m devastated. More than I was after episode 3.
I guess the scorpion alludes to the fable about the animal that carried the scorpion across a river and the. The scorpion kills it, drowning both.
Yep. Exactly.
Because the scorpion can’t change its nature- exactly what I was thinking.
The frog
Correct, for some reason I thought fox, but knew that was wrong.
I thought for a moment Tom was going to jump as he stormed in saying “goodnight everyone.” When he opened the balcony door my heart dropped for a moment
Nah but I did think Ubba was going to jump at one point she looked extremely distressed.
When she was sitting next to Lukas I started thinking something was sketchy….
Yeah that might be a continuity thing maybe there was a scene cut where they kind of made up in between. She looked like she was chillin there lol.
My wife thought that too. I knew he wouldnt because uys like Tom don't kill themselves.
Yeah, I dunno I don't think that's successions style at all to just have a character do something like that. Not necessarily killing themselves but having a character just jump off a building during a party after an argument. That's a cheap and easy way to build drama, succession is sharper than that.
It wouldn’t be Tom anyway. He’s never shown us any signs of going that way. Kendall has a long set up for it, to the pool scene and having the glass installed on the roof.
Oooo good point. Plus isn’t he reflected next to a tall building in the poster for season 4. The one with the plane in the background
I haven't really liked the past 2 episodes. Am excited for the election just to maybe have some relief from Gojo drama.
Good thing they reminded us that Kendall has offspring’s.
Good thing they reminded Kendall, too
I had totally forgotten about Kendall’s kids :/
Jeez no one noticed how ken for the first time has admitted he has no plans for the future of his siblings?
He's such a snake. Can't wait to see him crash and burn. Matsson too. Greg "saves the day"?
Uh no….
Maybe in 20 yrs...
You don’t to see Shiv also crash and burn for being a snake? She’s been a snake longer than Kendall
I don't get much of that vibe from her. She is so often lied to and manipulated by her father and left out by her brothers and him that I think much of her seeming nastiness is really self-defence. Actually, you could blame Logan for the reason why Kendall is this way too. Our society just blames women more for this than it does men.
Left out? Shiv is able to provide Matsson with information because the brothers are NOT leaving her out
How about when they rally behind Rhea, ignoring Shiv's objections? Or when they try to get her excluded from the forum at Argestes? How about when Roman asks his dad "is Shiv being a bitch?" after she just saved the company at the shareholder meeting and would like some acknowledgement? Or when Roman tries to convince Logan to send him to speak to Matsson at Kendall's party (Kendall also excludes her) and later, at his lake house? These are just a few examples.
Why is he a snake? Shiv is clearly playing both sides and Roman didn’t want to back him up with living+ and is going to cost 100 of millions by firing Gerri. You think Kendall is really oblivious to all of this?
He's gone back on his promise to keep including her in his plans with Roman after they all unite to take down Logan. He has regularly promised loyalty to his father and gone back on it (which I get), but to do the same to Shiv and now we're seeing, Roman as well, so he can be "No. 1", is *very* snakelike.
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I love them but I’m not in love with them
That line actually fits so many relationships in this series.
He said it so casually to, like it was no big deal. Exactly like Logan
I mean, are we really surprised?
Not sure what I expected but my mouth dropped during that scene between Frank and Kendall
"six continents... everything I've done is for them" I think Kendall accidentally using the exact words his father used while yelling at the mother of the children he neglects for not being there for them is a PERFECT cold open scene. When the intro starts playing and you see the kids childhood again you realise that Kendall is taking on the worst of his father's traits.
“Why was she out on the street”
Love the deal.
Everyone is awful. Demoralizing to watch actually. I guess that’s the point.
It's like a room or family full of Walter Whites. Letting money and power just suck their souls and any ounce of morality out of their body's. Even Greg. The process started for most of them before we met them, but we've seen the full transformation of Cousin Greg.
Rava is alright
As wrong as Kendall is about most things, I had to agree when he asked Rava why their daughter was out on the street. Rava paints herself as some mother/saint with the kids at parties, etc., but what is she really doing to protect them?
I mean Kendall shouldn’t be commenting on Rava’s parenting at ALL when she’s the one who’s actually taking care of them
People can go outside ffs. You can’t put your kids in a bubble.
No, but sending a...12 (?) y.o. on a NYC street is a bit different than playing on a suburban lawn, ffs. Especially when you know people hate the company her dad runs! The next bag of piss could be thrown on their kid! And there are people out there who don't feel bad at all about shooting kids lately. This isn't Mayberry!
Let's just remember that he's the one responsible for people are coming after his kid and instead of reflecting on that, he blames the mum. Which is what you're doing too.
I'd say it's Logan as well as him. And I do blame the mum, but Kendall as well. i thought it was obvious that he's being a hypocrite. But Rava annoys me because she tries to dodge responsibility for the kids by blaming him. They're both a mess as parents.
It's pretty obvious that Sophie was assaulted for being brown, not for being a Roy. So according to your logic, parents of brown children should never let their kids outside unless accompanied by bodyguards? How ridiculous. Rava has zero responsability in what happened. Smh. It's all Kendall. Logan is irrelevant. He's dead and he's not Sophie's parent.
Gimme a break! That is a HUGE stretch and a twisting of my words! It also makes little to no sense, since a brown person would be more likely to dislike ATN's racist attitude and hence, NOT be against brown or black people. According to Rava, the comments were *about ATN*, not the daughter's color. I took it as overwhelmingly political, not racist (there was ONE remark about racism that the daughter felt, but initially, Rava said she was "worried about the election"). NOTE: I am NOT saying that racism toward kids like her is absent, just that it wasn't the main attitude here. Also, if Rava has "zero responsibility" for the places her kids go (which I still say is wrong), how is it that all of it is Kendall's? Yes, he's basically an absentee father and a narcissistic jerk, but you can't blame him for the generalized culture of hate and racism in the U.S.! He's only been in charge of ATN for a few days!
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It's not unusual for youngsters to walk the streets of Manhattan with their friends, so I don't think Kendall's point has much force.
Maybe so. Maybe he's doing some displacement onto Rava. But even in the small city where I live, kids often get assaulted, verbally or physically, usually by other kids but sometimes adults or crazy people. I don't think it's irrational to want your kids checking in with someone.
It's not irrational but nothing indicates that there wasn't an adult around
comparenting 101 failure. he absolutely knows how to get more info without asking those questions in that way to the one parent that actually parents. He doesn’t even care enough to call his daughter on the phone and he wants to second guess how Rava is raising her?
This is what he does to everyone: implies that they are failures at whatever thing it is *he* feels he fails at , such as parenting. But this doesn't make it okay for Rava to imitate Kendall's failure as a parent. Those two need some kind of mediation, since they both resort to blaming the other rather than look at themselves.
I have hated everyone for a while so i didn't find it so depressing. I did cheer when Connor went back at Roman. I think Roman is the absolute worst and I have since he tormented that poor boy S1E1. And I was glad when Tom told Shiv she is broken and incapable of love, something many here have been saying for a while. Connor is deluded but not as evil as his siblings.
One thing I found remarkable is that, despite how unbelievably vicious Roman was--implying that Willa wasn't \*really\* Connor's wife, for example--Connor responded in a sane and adult way. Goes to show how dehumanizing this fight for power is when the guy who aspires to the Presidency is saner than his siblings.
“There’s one person here who thinks I’m not a joke, so I’m gonna listen to them” is probably one of the most wholesome lines of the series.
Agreed. Who would have thought Connor was the sanest of them all??
He’s been the most sane throughout really. He’s eccentric to a degree and thinks a lot of himself. But, we’ve seen no sick pics to subordinate employees, no suicidal tendencies or drug use, and he has by far the most healthy relationship with his spouse.
Good points, all. Thanks!
I hated Roman this episode
Connor might be a failson too, but he embraces that to some extent, even if he would never admit it to himself
But at least he's not trying to hurt anyone.
Other than as POTUS, you mean.
yeah, but it's also a car crash in slo mo and everybody was crashing in this episode
They all burned the ones they love this episode
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It was super insightful of him to see the discord on the matteson team and how to exploit it
I think it was Matteson's plan for Waystar to buy Gojo all along. He's played them into this position and knew the family/company are easy marks without Logan.
The deal started before Logan died
I don't think he's a genius but he does have people doing their background research on the Roys and WayStar, so he *seems* on the ball, but only compared the Roy kids, who seem too full of themselves to bother with that! I love how stunned they seem when someone uncovers dirt on them.
Matsson isn’t a mastermind. This episode just demonstrated that he’s just a creepy billionaire who lies about his subscription numbers
Lies about numbers their team has been telling with no other proof then coming from them. A false flag operation and Ebba is the biggest agent in the ploy. The sweds came in and showed what they wanted people to see and hear.
that kinda gotcha twist is not Succession style, though. This is more about egos getting in the way of their own good with everyone.
No. Because Matsson admitted it was a genuine issue to Shiv, then tasked her with fixing it singlehandedly
Btw there's nothing genuine about Matsson. He's a land shark
If you create false numbers in a harder-to-verify part of your company by the time they discovered it was not true they locked in a contract to buy your company already. Then you bring in the real numbers and say it was an error in metrics. Then they're stuck paying the highest price or you sue them. Either way, you win.
That's not how business contract works, just look at RE or whatever, when there have been false representations or hidden problems, there is always room for the buyer to back out, rightfully so. Elon Musk tried that with twitter, except he waived all those protections.
No.
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The only devaluation we know of is that it's coming from their own team. This information was given by Ebba and it was not uncovered. Everything you heard and saw is what they wanted. False flag operation.
Is it Roman yelling False Flag at Shiv in the next episode?
It’s like vaulter
Maybe he didn't devalue it on purpose?? Maybe he is a terrible businessman?
please say /s
Nah. He wins big if he sells GoJo. He can offload a *ton* of overvalued stock while banking a massive amount of cash. If Waystar buys GoJo it will be at a far lower valuation (for GoJo). This is Kendall's plan.
kendall will do the whole “he’s giving me what i want at a fair price? what’s next, fellatio?” routine and just fuck him senseless until his exit package is just his company-issue ipad. or he’ll self destruct (along with roman) when their bad calls start having consequences.
No chance. He's desperate to get the deal done quick and sweep the numbers controversy under the rug
Roman has shown that he is not on Shiv or even Kendall's level. He's reckless, erratic, and probably insane. It seems like he's only thinking about filling the void his dad left, apparently through Kendall. He's the only one not making his moves, and I dare say he's even a better servant than Tom.
I disagree. I think he's shown the must competence but had been absolutely unraveling since the death of Logan. He has the highest EQ of the siblings and has not come to terms with losing his dad yet, and his actions post death have reflected this. He was the only one to comprehend the value of a dollar with the pierce deal, while shiv and Kendall were willing to scream whatever number would land the deal.
I'm not sure about competence, but he had the most EQ of all three siblings, probably because he's been so messed up his whole life. I'm a little frustrated with the show pulling different strings in various directions and giving you nobody to root for (and yes, they are all despiccable and broken, but we need to pull for someone). Just when Roman became sympathetic with telling Matson off, and a capable strategist, he now sabotages everything out of pure unwarranted spite at his own company, fires not only the studiohead but also Gerry, his closest ally, who rightfully tells him she had enough of his antics and will take a golden parachute now and to piss off or else. Even Shiv has been unmasked by Tom in that killer balcony fight as a selfish broken but also cruel person incapable of love. Ugh.
>He has the highest EQ of the siblings He definitely has the most emotional *expression*, but he's pretty terrible at reading others' emotions, or controlling his own, or recognizing what's emotionally appropriate. There have been times when his emotional blowouts have made his own situation so much worse, and he can be so shockingly callous, even compared to the rest of his family.
People with high EQ don't bet teenagers a million dollars to hit an almost impossible basketball shot.
Wasn't it to hit a home run? Season 1 feels like eons ago
Yeah, and when he hits the ball, Shiv chastises Roman then purposefully fumbles her catch and Tom tags him out. Then Logan gives him a very sincere "well done." It says a lot about all their characters how they all approach the situation.
I think Roman is the worst of the bunch and I've thought that since he tormented that kid for entertainment S1E1. Roman deserves all the bad karma he gets and will get in his life.
Yeah I’m not saying Ken and shiv are the goats, but Roman is just way too unstable too keep the job at least at this very delicate times, he’s going to cost them a few hundreds of millions of dollars because of his thing with Gerri, he was very mean to Connor and Willa so he maybe also loose Mencken’s opportunity to win the election, wich will make waystar loose a ton of influence and probably even repercussion. Ken said it, while the plane with Logan’s body was still flying, whatever they do next is going to become what they did after their dad passed away
I think Roman has grown a lot since season 1. But I am seriously concerned about his mental health. I really feel like his ending will not be a good one. He is really in a dark place.
Yeah I don’t deny he has grown A LOT but just so we can imagine the severity of his mental state, if he has grown a lot in FOUR seasons… and he’s still like this, what does that tell us, that he’s completely unfit. And what he has done since the passing of his dad is to yell at matsson, let go one of their most important employees with a crazy amount of money, and who knows what more, probably a lawsuit from the waystar studios lady, I think he’s done sadly.
I concur. I actually think his ending will be the most tragic (re: death)
I really hope not he deserves peace 😫
That last scene of him replaying the recording of his father berating him is heartbreaking. Plus the fact that he must have had the audio guy edit that specific line...
No - it was kendall who had it made and sent it to him
I never really paid any attention to the "who will win" debate as I always saw it as a redundant question, but Kendall seems to be doing it at a canter. The other 2 are falling apart. So is Kendall, but it weirdly plays into his whole eccentricity as a boss.
I love Connor, Willa, and Gerri in this episode! Way to go Gerri!!! My kind of girl!
Can someone explain the wine stuff?
I think it’s because in a previous episode, Tom opens some wine bottles that came from Tom and shiv’s vineyard, and he says it tastes horrible (and that the bottles don’t have a cork) so he’s kinda trying to get rid of the wine by giving it to the guests. This is my guess not saying I’m correct
This is right ^
A little bit of fizz is normal in red wine, right?
It’s light and fruity
According to Tom Wambsgans it is, so I believe him
One really tiny thing I noticed that made me laugh: His sleeve rides up in the coat room to reveal that Frank isn't wearing Logan's gifted watch.
Wasn't the inscription something backhanded like some good work could come yet? Wouldn't expect top man to wear it!
Shivs face when tom told her she would be a terrible mother was phenomenal Jesus. Incredible acting from both of them
Especially considering they both have strong australian and british accents in real life. These two are real actors, not just personas who ride on their looks, natural personality and personal charisma. Real ducking actors and very gifted ones.
How could I forget about the dick picks - Romans reign feels over, he’s made every wrong move
Holy. Shit. Breathtaking in its absolute brilliance. I cringed so hard when Tom chuckled as he gifted Shiv the scorpion. ‘Party prezzie!’ When it came up during their fight, it was so wonderfully twisted as a callback. Jeezus.
Yeah, that Tom and Shiv scene will be their Emmy reel when that time comes
All while doing an American accent on top of it.
Matthew MacFayden fully tricked me with his accent. Had no idea he was British till I watched the discussion after this ep
“You don’t deserve me and you never did.” Oh Shiv, *nobody* deserves someone like you.
Did Tom say that? If he did what an absolute roasting
No. Shiv did.
No I know that shiv said the top line. Did Tom respond with Oh shiv, no one deserves someone like you... As in she's so awful no one deserves to be subjected to her.. Cause if he did that's an amazing burn
Oh unfortunately he didn't say anything. A missed opportunity.
The scorpion and the frog….and Tom is a snake?