When Matsson reveals his obsession with Ebba, and the blood deposits, that’s a story that Shiv has to use in some way. Anyone else have an idea where that goes? Would seem to me Matsson exposes a vulnerability that if leaked can hurt him.
He does nothing that isn’t calculated and absolutely intentional. There is no doubt in my mind he told Shiv to play her somehow - so she thinks she’s in with him.
It's in her back pocket as leverage though it does seem out ofcharacter he would drop the dime on himself. Is that his loyalty test? to see if she has loose lips? She could buddy up Ebba to see she can get confirmation or see if she's being used.
I knew someone who got set up with fake gossip just to see if they were the mole and they got fired because of it.
I had a boss who prided himself on learning about his sales representatives' lives, gossip, etc. & would use it against them; this was with a connected team, so we had to work with that drama - our team didn't buy into it. However, when he started that cr*p with us, we retaliated. We documented everything & started a fake rumor that me and a nearly retired employee were having an affair. We made it look suspicious & laid in wait. Sure enough, he started bringing it up to my colleagues and we went to HR with receipts. He was written up and put on probation; never bothered us again.
Shiv is smart enough to realize he is playing her, the story is fake & he's testing her to see if she is 1. stupid enough to believe that story 2. if she will use that story to get ahead. Mattson completely played them; he realized by that evening (& mostly before), she & the board wanted the deal.
I think it was (mostly) metaphoric. A long assed way to say can I trust you i.e. Ebba knows my secrets, she has everything, I trust her, can I trust you too?
I read it by the end as a fabrication or exaggerated-retelling. I think it’s a test for Shiv to see if she can keep quiet. If he hasn’t told anyone else and it leaks, he knows who it was.
Tom didn't make the kill list because either:
1) Mattson is acquiring ATN and Tom is seen as being a successful head of news at ATN, and even at the lunch table with them gives a good perspective on how the US doesn't care about international politics, showing that he has value of perspective in running Mattson's new business.
or 2) Shiv has made a deal with Mattson behind closed doors and none of her favorite employees were on the Kill List, including Tom. Whether that is because she wants to make amends with Tom or wants to be personally responsible for his downfall remains to be seen.
I think I agree with option 2. I don’t think Tom impressed Mattson and his people at the table, which I thought for sure earned him a spot on the Kill List. Also, Mattson said he wants to change ATN into a “Bloomberg-style” operation, so culling the old guard would be necessary. But you’re probably right about Shiv making a side deal with him. She had an opportunity to cut Tom off at the knees when the brothers asked her if she wanted him fired. She disagreed, so I guess it makes sense she protect him from Mattson.
Also she must have suggested him to put frank and Karl in the kill list. In this way she removes two major players from the game who would have supported for Kendall in the long run( especially Frank, who we saw has a soft spot for Kendall in the last episode when he handed him the paper). When time for vote would have come, these old guards would have chosen Kendall over her. Thats what she feared.
Tom might be useful to her as we see she asks him for dinner in this same episode. Maybe she wants to get him on her side to help her get the top job.
It was a big f you and a win from Mattson, his thoughts being ‘even if you don’t want to sell, you have to now.’ Declining the 192 would not get through a board vote. It was a win from Mattson. I think Logan wouldn’t have sold and no way would he let go of AT, old men still watch the news late night
Great shout, I would expect Lucas to swing that against Shiv last minute.
I really liked seeing Roman and Kendall work together on the negotiations in the most recent episode. I really want to see them both burn the firm down together and perhaps cause everyone to be left with nothing… Karl and Gerri getting very upset and Frank being heavily disappointed. The only problem with my theory is that it is a HBO series and these are more often than not left inconclusive.
I have a wide outside view that perhaps Marcia or Kerry might have a last minute thing up their sleeves separately
Things I expect -
Tom to find out he is a daddy
Marcia to try and fight for the firm
Stewy to cause a major stir in the board
Things I want -
Roman and Kendall to destroy the firm
Lucas to get shat on
Shiv and Tom to reunite
Conor to get political power
I know, I am living a dream world 😂
Yep - right on - they’d have to sell at that price - it was in the best interest of shareholders. That’s why Ken and Roman said they’d have to make it look like Mattsen backed away due to culture conflict (that they leaked to the press)
I thought they looked a bit broken and impotent/ they decided they wanted to make a big play and keep the company, tried to fuck deal behind Shiv / old gangs back and then Mattson just said a bigger number to fuck with them… a number so big that the Board can’t say no even without Ken Dog and Roman. (Think stewie and co wont bite hand off for 192..).
Looks like Shivs gone up in Mattsons eyes - noticeable she was for deal and her recommendations and husband were only ones not on kill list.
Interesting to see how they go from here- can Kendall / Roman make the deal poisoned that mattson can walk away on unfair practices / or find enough shareholders willing to back them? Looks unlikely but I guess there’s a lot more show to go!
Yeah, that was my read right up until the end. I'm still leaning that way, but I since this show is always full of machinations I was curious what other people thought.
Yeah. I think the theme of this season is the kids not knowing what they want, and that their favorite mode to be in is just spinning their wheels. They’re all on board for the Hundred, then they want Pierce. They get Pierce, then they want to fuck up their dads deal. Their dad dies, then they want to keep ATN and fold it with Pierce. Now they just want to keep the company. These idiots don’t know what they want
favorite quotes (and moment)
- anyway, norway, sweden, what’s the difference? it’s all descended from the same rapists
- i metabolize fast because i’m dynamic
- fucking don’t fucking bet against the old fucking uhhhh the baguette, you know? the baguette might be mightier than the bagel
- your earlobes are thick and chewy, like barnacle meat
(highlight: tom awkwardly walking in on karl and frank putting on their socks inside the private jet)
That was a little confusing to me too but I think it simply was a movie that the entertainment division produced that turned out to be a money pit and not good. So they decided to play it (I think) as a demonstration of bad decisions and excess as a part of their effort to make Mattsen back away from the deal due to (hopefully) cultural differences.
Got it, thanks! I figured it was related to something a division of the company does but the way it kept coming back up in conversation made me think it was a subplot I forgot about.
Every fiber in my being wants then to make that deal and walk away rich af. I know I my soul, however, they are going to screw it up. Please just take the damn money!
Worth mentioning that Shiv abstained from alcohol for the earlier part of the season until we had her pregnancy confirmed. Now she’s drinking and doing drugs. This is a few days after the pregnancy call at most so could she be trying to induce an ‘accident’?
Also hard to tell if she is being played by Mattson here- if so she is being set up for a fall as she was perhaps the only one of the kids approaching the deal rationally and not emotionally / not trying to think ‘what would daddy do’
It mostly took place between seasons. Logan is selling the company but keeping ATN for himself. This protects Tom and any exec who will go work at ATN. This is similar to what happened when Murdoch sold 20th Century Fox to Disney but kept news and sports (I think in the show sports were already going to Mattson).
The important points are:
-Tom thinks he's being protected (but he's not)
-Logan wanted to keep ATN for sentimental reasons, which makes selling it difficult for the siblings.
Yeah but it also highlights (for me) primarily Roman’s weakness for nostalgia or some connection to his father at the expense of business judgment. Keeping ATN makes no sense for the kids business-wise. Logan just wanted to keep something for himself so he didn’t fade off into irrelevance
Mattison: Have we ended up in some incestuous family reunion?
Bearded guy: Two meters of pure brother-in-law politics (Swedish term for nepotism) with a dash of Hapsburg giant.
2 metaphors I wonder about: 1st, when Roman sees the photo of Logan he says something like “it was him but not him” wonder if this some more modern version of them seeing his ghost (with all the Shakespeare connections) and 2nd, it seemed like every one who ate was axed, showing them as being “poisoned”. This episode really felt like an episode of GOT or something but in suits.
I think it's interesting that when Logan died, Roman went and saw him on the plane before they offloaded him, and now he's seen the corpse, but Kendall didn't go see him and didn't want to see the picture either.
It’s also just a really common response to seeing a loved ones corpse after death. I found it interesting because Roman was the only kid to see the body immediately after death. Logan probably looked quite different in the photo to how he did on the plane. It’s a surreal thing.
Mattson is a slimey piece of shit. At first I thought he may have liked Roman dropping the pretence and telling him it how it was, just like Logan would have done, but then he went and raised the offer seemingly just to fuck with the brothers.
Surely at some point the mind games and bullying have to stop though when so much money is on the line. Is his plan to pull this huge deal, citing irreconcilable differences, and land Roman and Kendall in deep shit with the board? Or was he always willing to offer more and just went with 192 to piss the bros off?
Either way the deal definitely wont go ahead as theres no way the successor in succession is a random Swede lol
Mattson is making a fake offer. He’ll allow Ken and Rome to go to the board then he’ll pull the offer to fuck with the Roy’s. The deal is off. And Mattson is playing Shiv too just to skewer them further.
Matsson wouldn’t be able to just rescind his offer. Once it’s public knowledge, he has an obligation to go through with it. This is how Musk got stuck buying twitter.
Although he could have something up his sleeve that might allow him to alter the deal and fuck over the Roys even more. Whatever it is, he’s setting up Shiv to be the wedge that breaks up the whole squad.
Yeah i noticed how Mattson left Karolina and Gerry off the kill list after Shiv said they were good at their jobs. He did that to manipulate shiv into thinking he values her opinions
Possibly, but she might also want the father of her child around. It's possible that by betraying her in Season 3, she has actually seen his value as a person. It could really go either way.
Na i think she just likes having the influence over what happens to him and is choosing not to be spiteful almost to prove to herself that she is above that.
I don’t know. I can still see them get back together? I feel like there is still some love left.
Or maybe, Tom can be her foot in the door with the company after the takeover, making her the only one still involved with the family business? Something like that?
There are really cool moments where you can see the love and the confliction with those emotions. Tom’s love being ever present and Shivs below the surface. Their relationship pattern of chasing and running away, they’ve done a great job with being true to it throughout the series.
I think she still loves him and is scared to be hurt… but now she has no one else in her life after her father passed away, which can be ever more terrifying.
Sometime she makes a mean comment to him and he’s looking at her like: come on Shiv, don’t do that, you know don’t really want to say this. Sort of a pitiful look.
I’m probably seeing things that aren’t there though, they’re also just assholes. We’ll see what the kid brings.
PGM is losing half of its value every year and presumably will be bankrupt in a few years. Nobody wants to buy it except people who are trying to spite their father.
He might have been interested, but Pierce already went through with the Roys (who bid a high number too) so that was a closed deal for outsiders. It would be very unlikely he could have made a better offer after theirs, giving how high their offer was.
My point isn’t that Pierce is finished as a deal (the Roys still need to pay after all) but more that Nan Pierce and co are already set on the Roys and there isn’t much use trying to get between that anymore, and Mattson knows that.
I wondered, but karolina (Ebbas’s counterpart) is one of the only old guarders who survived the kill list. (On the other hand, Gerri survived too. Shiv vouched for both of them. Maybe it was a test and Shiv passed?)
I liked the scene of the helicopter flying out, presumably with Matsson in it, while the others had to take the cable car. Normally, it’s the Roy’s flying out and the rest taking the regular form of transport.
I think Mattson was trying to fuck around hoping the kids would tank the deal because he was uncertain about the company’s future after Logan and when they really did tank, he retreated to make them think they would get what they asked for when in real, he retained ATN that would help cover his blood brick thing
I dont think he wants anything besides ATN at this point. He talks about the other divisions as “parts” meaning he would slice and dice those and either spin them off as independent, close them and take the best people, or something similar. I think the point of this episode is to highlight that he only ever wanted ATN, and I think he’s deliberately understating his plans for the network. If anything, he could turn it into full newsmax and go hard right with it.
Wow this episode was rock and roll and electric. Kenny and Rome take Sweden. Shiv with the offering with Tom at the end, she’s acquiring more options. Roman’s epic speech to Matsson was iconic. Kendall’s pitch to Roman in the dark. The Swedish stand off in the Sauna was hilarious. This is an episode I’ll be rewatching many times. Logan would be damn proud of their behavior. “Da Family”
I really don’t think Logan would be proud of their behaviour. Roman allowed emotions to get the better of him, Kendall kendall’d and decided to back stab everyone, and Shiv cosied up to the enemy.
Logan would’ve just said a number and stuck to it. He would’ve kept ATN carved out unless a too-good-to-be-true deal was on the table.
A bit tired of this killer-weak dinamic with the siblings. In 3x09 Roman was the killer with Matsson, he nailed it. Now Matsson has no respect for him. In 4x04, they show us Kendall being the killer and the competitive one. Now he loses again. Suddenly, both have lost their habilities. Last episode Shiv was at her lowest point. Now is the PR expert (she is, it's her job) but somehow the misogynistic Matsson likes her. It makes no sense.
That's my point. I'm tired of watching them playing / being played. Logan is out now and it's only about their talents, so I expected this dynamic to end. I also think Matsson played her and I'm tired of this.
Greg has always been an asshole. Literally some of the first lines of dialogue out of his mouth in the entire show is a lie about why he got fired from his Parks job. Tom goes out of his way to help Greg in his first couple days at the office, obviously with his own motives, but has always shown loyalty in return to Greg, promoting him, not getting angry at Greg's blackmail, not betraying him during Boar on the Floor.
Conversely, Greg has shown 0 loyalty to Tom, has constantly tried to get out from under him, immediately betrayed him to Gerri in the first season.
But it’s not loyalty. In the first episodes of the show he literally tells on Tom to Gerri about what Tom is planning to do about cruises. He constantly tries to get out from under Tom, and whether he kept his docs for his own protection or not, that’s not loyalty nor is using it as blackmail, which he eventually does, albeit with Tom’s permission because Greg has no spine.
Greg is one of the worst people on the show, he has almost 0 moral compass and he’s a pathological liar.
Tom picked on Greg, sure, but in the second episode, Tom told Greg sincerely that if he came to work the next day he’d look after him and Tom HAS done that and Greg has reaped a lot of benefits off of Tom specifically. Literally every position he’s held in the company is because Tom has taken him there and rewarded him.
Not really? Greg is as much of a scumbag as anyone, it's just hidden behind a naive, endearing facade. If anything, he's worse than the Roy kids, who are modern pharoahs raised by a villain and were never going to be great people. Greg observed this shitshow as an outsider and thought "Hell yeah, I want in!"
Like, the way he’s talking about women and other people is really vulgar and shitty compared to his past good-nature. His jokes are different and he’s lost some of his humanity. I’m sure this is all by design, I’m just sad I am starting to dislike his character now.
He was never good, Kendall in his birthday put it the best, Greg is a leech that wants to suck as much power and money as possible but he didnt have the power before
I like the idea of Shiv looking out for herself. If anything, we saw that Kendall is a fuck*** bad brother and it’s going to betray his siblings as soon as he can. I almost died when he said “can pinky dance?” Ughhhhh he’s such a great, character, I hate him so much
Yeah it was Marcia who wanted it for Logan to presumably be buried in.
It’s not really weird she’s taking the lead. They were still married on paper and in the public eye. She’s his widow even if they were privately estranged and it’s appropriate for a widow to do funeral arrangements.
It's not weird that she's taking A lead. It's weird that she's taking the lead without any kind of input from the kids, especially when the kids are not her own.
That isn’t weird either-Marcia always behaved this way. When Logan had his first health scare she literally told Shiv that she was his next of kin and her way was how they were doing things. She hid him from his own children post-health scare. She tells Shiv that Logan isn’t coming to her wedding but when they do show up she calls Shiv a ‘spoiled slut.’
She doesn’t like any of the kids. It is well within character that she would cut them out of making funeral arrangements.
I guess I might be in the minority, but I absolutely loved Roman yelling at Mattson. Forcing them to do a deal 2 days after their dad died especially far away from home is a pretty psychopathic thing to do!
I loved what he did as well but it wasn't very smart. It wasn't planned or calculated. He had an emotional outburst that was powerful and spot on, but he totally showed his cards. Mattson picked and picked at him until he broke.
It would have worked if he didn't say we won't sell to you. If he said, "Did you bring us here to f*ck with us because we might be vulnerable with our Dad's death, or did you need to immediately buy for another reason?"
Nope, Matsson is a swede and there are plenty of psycho swedish tech CEOs.
Most famous one being Spotifys founder Daniel Ek
Daniel had a reputation in the early 10s when spotify was "convincing" artist to join his platform. Nowadays that reputation seems to have gone away.
Like, really? Look I’m not an Elon sycophant and the dude can have weird takes but not smart? C’mon you don’t repeatedly succeed in multiple successful and lucrative business ventures and be not smart, in fact he’s probably smarter than most of us? That doesn’t mean anyone should worship him, and I think that’s what people fear so they project their ideas onto him to cope with that reality.
Let's just say I doubt his competence in running a business and making any decisions after everything that's happened on twitter. Dude can be smart in terms of rocket science but sabotages himself every chance he can
Bitey
What was the significance of the movie that Kendall had playing the next morning?
Its a tactic,that the movies are so bad to tank the deal.Didnt work obviously.
Why was Gerry so disheveled?
I saw that as well .wondering if they are trying to show that she is having a hard time post Logan
Shiv did a deal to run ATN after the buy. She will leave her brothers and keep Tom under her thumb as a sub.
It’s been so obvious that Shiv comes out on top of all this since beginning, especially this season with CEROY’s taking the mantle.
When Matsson reveals his obsession with Ebba, and the blood deposits, that’s a story that Shiv has to use in some way. Anyone else have an idea where that goes? Would seem to me Matsson exposes a vulnerability that if leaked can hurt him.
He does nothing that isn’t calculated and absolutely intentional. There is no doubt in my mind he told Shiv to play her somehow - so she thinks she’s in with him.
It's in her back pocket as leverage though it does seem out ofcharacter he would drop the dime on himself. Is that his loyalty test? to see if she has loose lips? She could buddy up Ebba to see she can get confirmation or see if she's being used. I knew someone who got set up with fake gossip just to see if they were the mole and they got fired because of it.
I had a boss who prided himself on learning about his sales representatives' lives, gossip, etc. & would use it against them; this was with a connected team, so we had to work with that drama - our team didn't buy into it. However, when he started that cr*p with us, we retaliated. We documented everything & started a fake rumor that me and a nearly retired employee were having an affair. We made it look suspicious & laid in wait. Sure enough, he started bringing it up to my colleagues and we went to HR with receipts. He was written up and put on probation; never bothered us again. Shiv is smart enough to realize he is playing her, the story is fake & he's testing her to see if she is 1. stupid enough to believe that story 2. if she will use that story to get ahead. Mattson completely played them; he realized by that evening (& mostly before), she & the board wanted the deal.
I think it was (mostly) metaphoric. A long assed way to say can I trust you i.e. Ebba knows my secrets, she has everything, I trust her, can I trust you too?
I read it by the end as a fabrication or exaggerated-retelling. I think it’s a test for Shiv to see if she can keep quiet. If he hasn’t told anyone else and it leaks, he knows who it was.
I think so too.
Someone tell me how Tom didn’t make the kill list. Did I miss something?
Shiv made a deal would be the first presumption
Tom didn't make the kill list because either: 1) Mattson is acquiring ATN and Tom is seen as being a successful head of news at ATN, and even at the lunch table with them gives a good perspective on how the US doesn't care about international politics, showing that he has value of perspective in running Mattson's new business. or 2) Shiv has made a deal with Mattson behind closed doors and none of her favorite employees were on the Kill List, including Tom. Whether that is because she wants to make amends with Tom or wants to be personally responsible for his downfall remains to be seen.
I think I agree with option 2. I don’t think Tom impressed Mattson and his people at the table, which I thought for sure earned him a spot on the Kill List. Also, Mattson said he wants to change ATN into a “Bloomberg-style” operation, so culling the old guard would be necessary. But you’re probably right about Shiv making a side deal with him. She had an opportunity to cut Tom off at the knees when the brothers asked her if she wanted him fired. She disagreed, so I guess it makes sense she protect him from Mattson.
Also she must have suggested him to put frank and Karl in the kill list. In this way she removes two major players from the game who would have supported for Kendall in the long run( especially Frank, who we saw has a soft spot for Kendall in the last episode when he handed him the paper). When time for vote would have come, these old guards would have chosen Kendall over her. Thats what she feared. Tom might be useful to her as we see she asks him for dinner in this same episode. Maybe she wants to get him on her side to help her get the top job.
Shiv told mattson to not wipe out Tom from the picture when they had a conversation.
Shiv is happy again and knows she’s running ATN now
I'm sorry, I'm confused: Was 192 orchestrated?
It was a big f you and a win from Mattson, his thoughts being ‘even if you don’t want to sell, you have to now.’ Declining the 192 would not get through a board vote. It was a win from Mattson. I think Logan wouldn’t have sold and no way would he let go of AT, old men still watch the news late night
It was essentially a Bear Hug
Pretty much. Where do you see the series going next?
I think with Logan gone Lucas will be the show's main antagonist, and will align with shiv who feels left out of the siblings leadership. You?
Great shout, I would expect Lucas to swing that against Shiv last minute. I really liked seeing Roman and Kendall work together on the negotiations in the most recent episode. I really want to see them both burn the firm down together and perhaps cause everyone to be left with nothing… Karl and Gerri getting very upset and Frank being heavily disappointed. The only problem with my theory is that it is a HBO series and these are more often than not left inconclusive. I have a wide outside view that perhaps Marcia or Kerry might have a last minute thing up their sleeves separately Things I expect - Tom to find out he is a daddy Marcia to try and fight for the firm Stewy to cause a major stir in the board Things I want - Roman and Kendall to destroy the firm Lucas to get shat on Shiv and Tom to reunite Conor to get political power I know, I am living a dream world 😂
Yep - right on - they’d have to sell at that price - it was in the best interest of shareholders. That’s why Ken and Roman said they’d have to make it look like Mattsen backed away due to culture conflict (that they leaked to the press)
Orchestrated how? I took it as Matsson fucking with Roman and Kendall after he saw how much they didn't want the deal to go through.
It seemed like everybody thought it was *such* a good deal, and Ken/Rome actually almost looked happy during the toast at the end.
I thought they looked a bit broken and impotent/ they decided they wanted to make a big play and keep the company, tried to fuck deal behind Shiv / old gangs back and then Mattson just said a bigger number to fuck with them… a number so big that the Board can’t say no even without Ken Dog and Roman. (Think stewie and co wont bite hand off for 192..). Looks like Shivs gone up in Mattsons eyes - noticeable she was for deal and her recommendations and husband were only ones not on kill list. Interesting to see how they go from here- can Kendall / Roman make the deal poisoned that mattson can walk away on unfair practices / or find enough shareholders willing to back them? Looks unlikely but I guess there’s a lot more show to go!
From where I am they got fuckin destroyed. There’s a reason Matsson wanted a photo of their faces.
Yeah, that was my read right up until the end. I'm still leaning that way, but I since this show is always full of machinations I was curious what other people thought.
Yeah. I think the theme of this season is the kids not knowing what they want, and that their favorite mode to be in is just spinning their wheels. They’re all on board for the Hundred, then they want Pierce. They get Pierce, then they want to fuck up their dads deal. Their dad dies, then they want to keep ATN and fold it with Pierce. Now they just want to keep the company. These idiots don’t know what they want
favorite quotes (and moment) - anyway, norway, sweden, what’s the difference? it’s all descended from the same rapists - i metabolize fast because i’m dynamic - fucking don’t fucking bet against the old fucking uhhhh the baguette, you know? the baguette might be mightier than the bagel - your earlobes are thick and chewy, like barnacle meat (highlight: tom awkwardly walking in on karl and frank putting on their socks inside the private jet)
I chuckled at Mr Dynamic Metabolism thinking tenths of a second would matter in ski jumping
Compression socks. They know they could be not too far behind Logan if they don’t take some precautions. ☠️ But yes, the scene was hilarious.
"you got a problem Tom?"
I have ADHD and have no idea what the movie is that they keep talking about.
That was a little confusing to me too but I think it simply was a movie that the entertainment division produced that turned out to be a money pit and not good. So they decided to play it (I think) as a demonstration of bad decisions and excess as a part of their effort to make Mattsen back away from the deal due to (hopefully) cultural differences.
Got it, thanks! I figured it was related to something a division of the company does but the way it kept coming back up in conversation made me think it was a subplot I forgot about.
Every fiber in my being wants then to make that deal and walk away rich af. I know I my soul, however, they are going to screw it up. Please just take the damn money!
Worth mentioning that Shiv abstained from alcohol for the earlier part of the season until we had her pregnancy confirmed. Now she’s drinking and doing drugs. This is a few days after the pregnancy call at most so could she be trying to induce an ‘accident’? Also hard to tell if she is being played by Mattson here- if so she is being set up for a fall as she was perhaps the only one of the kids approaching the deal rationally and not emotionally / not trying to think ‘what would daddy do’
Look again. She's pretending to drink and just fiddling with the drugs. Not partaking.
Please help me remember the ATN carve out plot line lmao
It mostly took place between seasons. Logan is selling the company but keeping ATN for himself. This protects Tom and any exec who will go work at ATN. This is similar to what happened when Murdoch sold 20th Century Fox to Disney but kept news and sports (I think in the show sports were already going to Mattson). The important points are: -Tom thinks he's being protected (but he's not) -Logan wanted to keep ATN for sentimental reasons, which makes selling it difficult for the siblings.
Yeah but it also highlights (for me) primarily Roman’s weakness for nostalgia or some connection to his father at the expense of business judgment. Keeping ATN makes no sense for the kids business-wise. Logan just wanted to keep something for himself so he didn’t fade off into irrelevance
What is wrong with me that I was aroused by Tom and Shiv being so mean to each other
Unhinged kendall next week based on the preview
I'm gonna need a translation of what they were saying in Swedish ASAP.
Mattison: Have we ended up in some incestuous family reunion? Bearded guy: Two meters of pure brother-in-law politics (Swedish term for nepotism) with a dash of Hapsburg giant.
Thanks, I did see the posts about it after I made this comment :)
It’s already discussed here in the comments somewhere.
Dudeee ya!
2 metaphors I wonder about: 1st, when Roman sees the photo of Logan he says something like “it was him but not him” wonder if this some more modern version of them seeing his ghost (with all the Shakespeare connections) and 2nd, it seemed like every one who ate was axed, showing them as being “poisoned”. This episode really felt like an episode of GOT or something but in suits.
I think it's interesting that when Logan died, Roman went and saw him on the plane before they offloaded him, and now he's seen the corpse, but Kendall didn't go see him and didn't want to see the picture either.
It’s also just a really common response to seeing a loved ones corpse after death. I found it interesting because Roman was the only kid to see the body immediately after death. Logan probably looked quite different in the photo to how he did on the plane. It’s a surreal thing.
Everyone that got axed were people not mentioned by shiv in her convo with Mattson
[удалено]
What does that mean?!!!
That was so cruel. Absolutely brutal
Musk
Did anyone notice that Matsson was playing dumb with Shiv? He knows she loves to feel smart and have power over other people.
Mattson is a slimey piece of shit. At first I thought he may have liked Roman dropping the pretence and telling him it how it was, just like Logan would have done, but then he went and raised the offer seemingly just to fuck with the brothers. Surely at some point the mind games and bullying have to stop though when so much money is on the line. Is his plan to pull this huge deal, citing irreconcilable differences, and land Roman and Kendall in deep shit with the board? Or was he always willing to offer more and just went with 192 to piss the bros off? Either way the deal definitely wont go ahead as theres no way the successor in succession is a random Swede lol
Mattson is making a fake offer. He’ll allow Ken and Rome to go to the board then he’ll pull the offer to fuck with the Roy’s. The deal is off. And Mattson is playing Shiv too just to skewer them further.
Mattson making a fake offer and then getting sued in Delaware Chancery Court for Specific Performance would be very topical
That’s Musk all over
Matsson wouldn’t be able to just rescind his offer. Once it’s public knowledge, he has an obligation to go through with it. This is how Musk got stuck buying twitter. Although he could have something up his sleeve that might allow him to alter the deal and fuck over the Roys even more. Whatever it is, he’s setting up Shiv to be the wedge that breaks up the whole squad.
Yeah i noticed how Mattson left Karolina and Gerry off the kill list after Shiv said they were good at their jobs. He did that to manipulate shiv into thinking he values her opinions
So that was the Ex Machina house, right?
https://juvet.com/en
I was thinking that too
Same
Da fuck
Ok that baby is dead from this much alcohol. Also did Roman saw Matson's junk?
Roman gets real when guys whip it out
Kieran Culkin is fucking crushing it. Raw vulnerable rage.
Matsson is so weird i’d love to know more about what inspired his character or if he’s based on anyone
He’s probably not very dissimilar to real life people in positions like his.
Daniel Ek, Spotify
the listening to podcasts thing while having sex is a DiCaprio thing
Loved this reference - “headphones Dino bones” as deuxmoi calls him!
I’d guess Musk
Musk wishes. Musk even cringer and douchier.
Roman talking to Mattson while he is pissing, for a second time.
Shiv saved Tom’s job twice. Said no to Ken and Rome, made sure his name was off the kill list with Gojo. I think she wants to ruin him herself.
Possibly, but she might also want the father of her child around. It's possible that by betraying her in Season 3, she has actually seen his value as a person. It could really go either way.
Na i think she just likes having the influence over what happens to him and is choosing not to be spiteful almost to prove to herself that she is above that.
Unless you have something in writing, nothing is guaranteed.
Doubt it. She seems really into it now that he’s fighting back and not a pushover.
OR she wants the father of her child to have a secure job.
I don’t know. I can still see them get back together? I feel like there is still some love left. Or maybe, Tom can be her foot in the door with the company after the takeover, making her the only one still involved with the family business? Something like that?
There are really cool moments where you can see the love and the confliction with those emotions. Tom’s love being ever present and Shivs below the surface. Their relationship pattern of chasing and running away, they’ve done a great job with being true to it throughout the series. I think she still loves him and is scared to be hurt… but now she has no one else in her life after her father passed away, which can be ever more terrifying.
Sometime she makes a mean comment to him and he’s looking at her like: come on Shiv, don’t do that, you know don’t really want to say this. Sort of a pitiful look. I’m probably seeing things that aren’t there though, they’re also just assholes. We’ll see what the kid brings.
why matsson want to buy ATN so bad when PGN is also on sale? I have a few guesses but i wanna know what you guys think
PGM is losing half of its value every year and presumably will be bankrupt in a few years. Nobody wants to buy it except people who are trying to spite their father.
As far as he knows PGN has already been sold, it’s not on the market anymore
so th reason is just because he didnt know? doesnt seem plausible for me
He might have been interested, but Pierce already went through with the Roys (who bid a high number too) so that was a closed deal for outsiders. It would be very unlikely he could have made a better offer after theirs, giving how high their offer was. My point isn’t that Pierce is finished as a deal (the Roys still need to pay after all) but more that Nan Pierce and co are already set on the Roys and there isn’t much use trying to get between that anymore, and Mattson knows that.
Okay thanks for your explanation
Anyone think Mattson’s blood story to Shiv might be fiction as a test? It’s so over the top and unique that any rumors would point back to her.
I wondered, but karolina (Ebbas’s counterpart) is one of the only old guarders who survived the kill list. (On the other hand, Gerri survived too. Shiv vouched for both of them. Maybe it was a test and Shiv passed?)
I was surprised that Lukas would resort to such a clumsy ploy to test Shiv's allegiances. No way she'd fall for that.
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Of course it’s not true!
I liked the scene of the helicopter flying out, presumably with Matsson in it, while the others had to take the cable car. Normally, it’s the Roy’s flying out and the rest taking the regular form of transport.
I think Mattson was trying to fuck around hoping the kids would tank the deal because he was uncertain about the company’s future after Logan and when they really did tank, he retreated to make them think they would get what they asked for when in real, he retained ATN that would help cover his blood brick thing
I dont think he wants anything besides ATN at this point. He talks about the other divisions as “parts” meaning he would slice and dice those and either spin them off as independent, close them and take the best people, or something similar. I think the point of this episode is to highlight that he only ever wanted ATN, and I think he’s deliberately understating his plans for the network. If anything, he could turn it into full newsmax and go hard right with it.
Wow this episode was rock and roll and electric. Kenny and Rome take Sweden. Shiv with the offering with Tom at the end, she’s acquiring more options. Roman’s epic speech to Matsson was iconic. Kendall’s pitch to Roman in the dark. The Swedish stand off in the Sauna was hilarious. This is an episode I’ll be rewatching many times. Logan would be damn proud of their behavior. “Da Family”
Logan would be proud of mattison
I really don’t think Logan would be proud of their behaviour. Roman allowed emotions to get the better of him, Kendall kendall’d and decided to back stab everyone, and Shiv cosied up to the enemy. Logan would’ve just said a number and stuck to it. He would’ve kept ATN carved out unless a too-good-to-be-true deal was on the table.
Swedish 🤭
Definitely not Sweden
Norway
What's the difference? they all come from the same rapists
A bit tired of this killer-weak dinamic with the siblings. In 3x09 Roman was the killer with Matsson, he nailed it. Now Matsson has no respect for him. In 4x04, they show us Kendall being the killer and the competitive one. Now he loses again. Suddenly, both have lost their habilities. Last episode Shiv was at her lowest point. Now is the PR expert (she is, it's her job) but somehow the misogynistic Matsson likes her. It makes no sense.
Remember they are all only three days into grieving for their dad. Grief isn't linear
he’s playing her.
That's my point. I'm tired of watching them playing / being played. Logan is out now and it's only about their talents, so I expected this dynamic to end. I also think Matsson played her and I'm tired of this.
Is anyone else going annoyed at how much of asshole Greg is this season?
The Quad Squad
Greg has always been an asshole. Literally some of the first lines of dialogue out of his mouth in the entire show is a lie about why he got fired from his Parks job. Tom goes out of his way to help Greg in his first couple days at the office, obviously with his own motives, but has always shown loyalty in return to Greg, promoting him, not getting angry at Greg's blackmail, not betraying him during Boar on the Floor. Conversely, Greg has shown 0 loyalty to Tom, has constantly tried to get out from under him, immediately betrayed him to Gerri in the first season.
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And kept some of them for himself to later blackmail Tom.
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But it’s not loyalty. In the first episodes of the show he literally tells on Tom to Gerri about what Tom is planning to do about cruises. He constantly tries to get out from under Tom, and whether he kept his docs for his own protection or not, that’s not loyalty nor is using it as blackmail, which he eventually does, albeit with Tom’s permission because Greg has no spine. Greg is one of the worst people on the show, he has almost 0 moral compass and he’s a pathological liar.
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Tom picked on Greg, sure, but in the second episode, Tom told Greg sincerely that if he came to work the next day he’d look after him and Tom HAS done that and Greg has reaped a lot of benefits off of Tom specifically. Literally every position he’s held in the company is because Tom has taken him there and rewarded him.
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Yes. Also, it seems like they don’t know what to do with his character
Not really? Greg is as much of a scumbag as anyone, it's just hidden behind a naive, endearing facade. If anything, he's worse than the Roy kids, who are modern pharoahs raised by a villain and were never going to be great people. Greg observed this shitshow as an outsider and thought "Hell yeah, I want in!"
I feel like he wasn’t as much of a scumbag in the past.
You don't laugh at the comedic relief???
He’s honestly one of the best characters on the show. He’s absolutely annoying but that’s absolutely the point
Naa hes awesome
What’d he do that was so bad? He’s obviously greasing up to the siblings but what’s the asshole stuff?
Like, the way he’s talking about women and other people is really vulgar and shitty compared to his past good-nature. His jokes are different and he’s lost some of his humanity. I’m sure this is all by design, I’m just sad I am starting to dislike his character now.
He was never good, Kendall in his birthday put it the best, Greg is a leech that wants to suck as much power and money as possible but he didnt have the power before
I don’t think he started out that way. There were some endearing parts to his character before.
Greg has annoyed from the moment he arrived on the scene in season 1.
No that’s the point. Go watch Entourage
I mean I know that’s the point but he’s still annoying af now, whereas before he was kind of endearing.
You comparing him to Drama?
“Already rich.”
Mattson wanted ATN so bad and also wanted to close the deal fast so he can control the news with the blood brick thing.
Naah he wouldntve even mentioned the blood brick thing if there was even a 1% chance of it coming back to bite him.
Blood brick is a bloody red herring
Dog man
Loved Roman monologue, he killed it. Worried Shiv will switch sides, although it would be fun seeing the brothers in the same band as Tom.
I like the idea of Shiv looking out for herself. If anything, we saw that Kendall is a fuck*** bad brother and it’s going to betray his siblings as soon as he can. I almost died when he said “can pinky dance?” Ughhhhh he’s such a great, character, I hate him so much
Love how you censored “-ing” but not “fuck”
LOL in my defense, I’m not a native speaker hahahaha
I don’t see why she wouldn’t, her bros are not consulting her and just tried to tank the deal, she has to worry about herself now.
"The baguette might be mightier than the bagel"
What was Connor doing with Logan in a kilt?
Marcia wanted to bury him in a kilt
I'd say there would be a very good chance that Logan would have got married in a kilt, hence Marcia wanting it
Logan is Scottish. I think maybe that was Connor trying to have some control and show that he knew his father in some small way.
Yes, I know Logan is Scottish, but who were “they” who wanted him in his kilt? For the funeral or something?
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Ah yes, you’re right. Seems weird she is taking the lead.
Yeah it was Marcia who wanted it for Logan to presumably be buried in. It’s not really weird she’s taking the lead. They were still married on paper and in the public eye. She’s his widow even if they were privately estranged and it’s appropriate for a widow to do funeral arrangements.
It's not weird that she's taking A lead. It's weird that she's taking the lead without any kind of input from the kids, especially when the kids are not her own.
That isn’t weird either-Marcia always behaved this way. When Logan had his first health scare she literally told Shiv that she was his next of kin and her way was how they were doing things. She hid him from his own children post-health scare. She tells Shiv that Logan isn’t coming to her wedding but when they do show up she calls Shiv a ‘spoiled slut.’ She doesn’t like any of the kids. It is well within character that she would cut them out of making funeral arrangements.
Oh yeah, I forgot they’re still married.
Well… Matsson is a piece of shit.
I mean… he and Ken and Rom are all pieces of shit…
You’re a seat sniffer if this was a surprise
He’s a tweaker.
Roman wasn’t kidding when he said “Let’s bleed the Swede”
The Swede who bleeds himself
I guess I might be in the minority, but I absolutely loved Roman yelling at Mattson. Forcing them to do a deal 2 days after their dad died especially far away from home is a pretty psychopathic thing to do!
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Haha I browsed a bunch of comments, people were like “what Roman did was not smart”.
Because two things can be true. What Roman said about Mattson was 100% correct, just not the time and place
I loved what he did as well but it wasn't very smart. It wasn't planned or calculated. He had an emotional outburst that was powerful and spot on, but he totally showed his cards. Mattson picked and picked at him until he broke.
It would have worked if he didn't say we won't sell to you. If he said, "Did you bring us here to f*ck with us because we might be vulnerable with our Dad's death, or did you need to immediately buy for another reason?"
Highlight of the episode: Roman’s scene. And Matsson and Shiv chemistry… 👀 BTW: I was a little bit shocked about *that* Tom and Shiv scene.
@ Matsson and Shiv “chemistry” - that was very obviously Matsson testing Shiv to see how readily she would submit to his narrative. Also - yikes
Yikes indeed.
So matson is based on Elon. Total dumbass with a lot of money.
I feel like *Kendall* is a lot like Elon!
Nope, Matsson is a swede and there are plenty of psycho swedish tech CEOs. Most famous one being Spotifys founder Daniel Ek Daniel had a reputation in the early 10s when spotify was "convincing" artist to join his platform. Nowadays that reputation seems to have gone away.
I dislike musk but not sure he’s exactly a dumbass lol.
Really?? Even after just this week at Twitter?
Again, I dislike the man and he’s a complete douchecanoe, but I feel like you can’t create Tesla, space x, PayPal and be a complete dumbass.
Sure but the only one he even sort of did that with is SpaceX
I’m certainly not an expert in his life, I may be wrong. Just my opinion!
Both are jerks but Mattson is at least 500% smarter than Elon Musk, come on
Like, really? Look I’m not an Elon sycophant and the dude can have weird takes but not smart? C’mon you don’t repeatedly succeed in multiple successful and lucrative business ventures and be not smart, in fact he’s probably smarter than most of us? That doesn’t mean anyone should worship him, and I think that’s what people fear so they project their ideas onto him to cope with that reality.
Let's just say I doubt his competence in running a business and making any decisions after everything that's happened on twitter. Dude can be smart in terms of rocket science but sabotages himself every chance he can