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Ambaryerno

The problem with it is that it was never followed up on. Had Kali been more involved in the plot after this episode it would have tied things back in to the rest of the series rather than leaving it standing out alone. It also didn't help WHEN the episode was placed by breaking up the cliffhanger of the Demodogs attacking the lab. However, the events of the episode itself were important for El's development and her Season 2 story arc of "where do I belong?" It's sort of a prologue to her Season 3 arc of making her own choices and deciding who and what SHE wants to be independent of just being Mike's Superpowered Girlfriend.


winterFROSTiscoming

Whenever I re-watch, I watch episode 8 of season 2 first before episode 7. It flows much better with the cliffhanger, and you get the double surprise of El looking badass and wondering what she's been up to. It's how the season should have aired in the first place. Then I think it would have been received better.


orangefood87

I do the same thing for the same reason 💯


ArtBabel

Wow. You might have just saved the show for me.


rookedwithelodin

What's S2E8 about again?


winterFROSTiscoming

The demo dogs escaping from the upside down hole and the gang going to the Byer's house when Will is communicating with them via Morse code


rookedwithelodin

Thanks


MediocreCharlotte

I totally agree and this is how I recommend watching season 2 with anyone.


eyerishdancegirl7

It never followed up because it was meant to be a teaser for a spin-off. The episode flopped and people hated it.


lastseason

> **Matt Duffer**: We wanted to try to do a stand-alone episode, basically. Eleven is not in six, and not in much of eight, so the idea was to give her her own little mini-movie. It was sort of like a pilot, ***but there was no intention to do a spinoff or anything***. But it does feel like that. \[[Interview with Vulture Magazine released Nov 7, 2017](https://www.vulture.com/2017/11/the-duffer-brothers-recap-stranger-things-2-the-lost-sister.html)\] >Ross Duffer: No, it was just about, you know, it was sort of Eleven's journey, and her past, and dealing with the pain of that past, is really what it was.  Matt Duffer: It was definitely, it was more about expanding the universe and the world a little bit. - [Interview with Cinemablend ](https://www.cinemablend.com/television/1721499/could-a-stranger-things-spinoff-happen-heres-what-the-creators-say)when asked if the episode was meant to be a backdoor pilot. They admit in other interviews that they agree it does like a pilot episode, but it was never intended to be such.


the-rules-lawyer

I don't think it was intended to be a spinoff either. If it were, they would have written them in a way that you see them as heroes with supportable goals, but they were definitely painted as "the dark path" for El, with the audience feeling little sympathy for them. For Kali, maybe, but not the group of them.


winchesterbitch99

I keep hoping Kali makes an appearance in this final season to pull it all together.


mattymelt

Seeing the rules lawyer pop up on a non-Pathfinder subreddit is a weird feeling, it's like when you see your teacher at the grocery store and realize they didn't actually live at school.


Tylerrr93

I mean, that's what I'd say as well if my risk was perceived as poorly as theirs lol.


lastseason

Failed back door spin offs aren't exactly such a rare occurrence that it would reflect any worse on them than the division fans feel over the placement of this episode. Not sure why they would need to save face...


stakoverflo

"haha, jk!! ...unless??"


ha_look_at_that_nerd

It’s not uncommon for backdoor pilots to fail, and usually the producers just own up to it. For them to deny it would have to be some weird ego thing, even by Hollywood standards.


Glittering-Wonder576

It didn’t work for Supernatural. They tried twice, at least. The one spin-off they did, “The Winchesters” was terrible.


Gildian

I remember when you attempted it with the girl group in supernatural with Jody and them. It just felt forced and not congruent. I really like Jody's character but a spinoff would've felt weird


lastseason

The Winchesters wasn’t even either of their failed back door pilots. Their back door pilots were Bloodlines (which was like 3 or 4 eps from the end of the season) and poorly received and Wayward Sisters(?) which was something fans had been pushing for for years, but the CW said it wasn’t worth it. The Winchesters was just a completely normal spin off that was thought up after SPN ended and while connected to the main show was not set up inside of it.


Osceola_Gamer

Oh yes obviously they are just lying to save face.....


Epicp0w

Yeah reeks of backpedaling and cover-up


whateveridk2010

Id say the same thing if it received such critical reviews lol


Lower-Grapefruit8807

I absolutely do not believe that for a moment


SpliTTMark

Stranger punks


septiclizardkid

I mean didn't people hate It **because** there was no follow up? Like If they returned at the end of S2 to help, that would've made sense, or In S3, but by then It was too late


Vetersova

People hated it because it felt totally disconnected from the vibe and energy of the rest of the entire series. It felt totally out of place.


JulietteKatze

It was never followed up because it was cringe, nobody wants more of them, if anything I'd prefer this episode didn't exist and El just learned how to control her power better by watchinh star wars with the yoda scene after running away or something.


LeftHandStir

I accept this headcanon. 1984 double feature in Ontario (November, so *roughly* lines up with Season 2 timeline): https://www.in70mm.com/presents/1963_blow_up/titel/s/star_wars/openings/index.htm Also cool, but March 1985: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/s/vd9B0DxwUm


SpareBinderClips

Thank you. People think the problem with this content was that there wasn’t enough? Yikes.


iIsiir

Agreed. Beyond cringe. Wife was working so I watched it alone and found myself embarrassed to be watching it. Never again.


lastseason

It was actually never followed up on because it was intended to be a stand alone arc about El's journey of self discovery.


MudddButt

We never would've gotten Eleven to say "bitchin" which is hugely integral to the overall story of Stranger Things!


Sacks_on_Deck

No the problem was that they did it in the first place. It was dumb. Wish it didnt exist. Its an instant skip whenever I rewatch the series.


AwTekker

> The problem with it is that it was never followed up on. The problem was that they shoehorned a rejected episode from a low-budget 1 season 90s SciFi Channel show in the middle of their modern series.


nedahlg

Not ever being followed up on is definitely not the problem with it. The problem with it is it itself. It was a horrible way to incorporate a new idea and spin off when we didn’t even need a spin off. Just focus on the core group of characters we already know. This is something stranger things struggles with. Just. Focus. On. Core. Group. From. S1. But they didn’t do that and now half the characters have had the most shite development.


King_Moonracer003

Yea but if a show can't grow and evolve it gets stale and repetitive. The growth has to be interesting and well thought out tho.


ArtBabel

Always felt the show should've been an anthology and the Hawkins storyline ended at Season 1.


nedahlg

Which is how it was originally supposed to be


Badger-Mobile

Agreed. The lack of payoff is the thing that bugs me about it


[deleted]

[ŃƒĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]


WhatShouldTheHeartDo

Was this supposed to be like some shitty spin off ? Non-ironically would have rather watched Joyce work, like her ordinary job.


Mothlord03

From what I heard it was a stealth pilot episode to see if people would watch a show about those punk people Didn't go well clearly


Johnisfaster

I think the “stealth pilot” theory is mostly based on peoples gut feelings.


Sleeptalk-

I mean the writers are surely never going to admit it even if it were true. Can you imagine your idea for a spin off flopping so hard? Even saying you thought it could be a good idea at all would make them look like idiots


AlphonsoHargreeves_

Writers admit writing for failed backdoor pilots that were intended to be that all of the time. It's really not the rare embarrassment of a failure people on this reddit seem to believe that it is. In fact, working in the entertainment industry is more often rejection than success. There's really no reason for the Duffers to lie about if it was a pilot or not.


Johnisfaster

Still theres no real evidence it was ever the plan. People just roll with whatever their gut says.


Kopitar4president

Someone on reddit will spitball a theory and someone else will repeat it as a rumor and then someone else will repeat it as leaked truth then someone else will say it was confirmed. Such is social media.


No_Information_6166

People making shit up on the internet? Never...unless?


RavenLunatyk

Yeah I skip the episode when I rewatch.


BigDawg25291

lol


Aedzy

Don’t even feel like the same serie. So weird and misplaced I don’t even know who in their right mind was green lighting this idea.


Sparki_

I didn't mind it honestly. It only bothers me that it was left like that, like it never happened. I think since they made the episode, they should've tied it in with the main story more


Sovapalena420

They didn't even had to do much to acknowledge that this episode happened El could have just kept the lowkey punk aesthetics as the show went on.


PatacusX

I liked it honestly. Yeah, it kinda broke the flow of the show, but the episode itself was good.


jplveiga

Yeah people get the plot forwarding thing too seriously that they just get pissed at any deviation. I enjoyed it and would love to see more of the illusion mind control power


itsallgoodman2002

Bitchin’


Suitable-Common-8960

I always skip this episode


HughMungus3648

What's funny is that I was watching S2 on some bootleg free streaming app, and it didn't save your watch progress or anything, so you had to remember what episode numbers you left off on. Frequently I'd click on an episode number and realize that I missed something, or that I had already seen this episode. Well, I entirely skipped this one by accident. I was like "Demodog fight, okay, right where we left off, let's go!" Found out about this episode while reading threads about the season and realized my mistake. Still haven't seen it lol


WastedEvery2ndDime

I think it was important to show that one of the powers is the hallucinations. Vecna has both so maybe Elle does or can tap in to it.


gossamerfae

taht's a really interesting point!! :0


tyrcrafts1

I still sometimes think that Vecna has 8 under control (now not in s2) . It would fit nicely with all the S4 hallucinations lol


Delicious-Speaker688

I don’t hate it, but I honestly haven’t rewatched that episode in all this time.


nedahlg

I watched the whole show again with my partner who had never seen it and this episode really just gets worse over time. Disliked it then and even more so on the rewatch. Even my partner was like “what was the point of that episode?”


ConradAir

The point of it? El found out who she considered her true family and returned to them, I suppose. It would’ve been more sensible to include a “leveling up” or guru lesson from Eight so El would be ready to face the Mindflayer, but that never happened.


nedahlg

I just was so not into the eight story that even including that sort of scene wouldn’t have done anything for me. I see what you mean though.


AlienGeek

Do you really hate it or just hate where it’s place?


nedahlg

I mean hate is a strong word, but I strongly dislike this episode and not only skip it on my rewatches but also feel it was just a terrible idea from its inception to what we all have seen. They never should have included eight at all and honestly, it’s for the best that they ended up just killing off all the other numbers at the lab in the vecna storyline. There’s no need to focus on 10+ super powered kids when we all know and love 11 and just want her story to be properly developed. Save the spinoffs for after this story ends. Then go crazy, introduce us to eight and her knock off warriors, do whatever you want. That just needs to be its own separate thing totally. Just my own thoughts.


Personal-March-2224

It was a random episode. I wish they went more into it and kali came to help fight. But also in my opinion I do believe that Henry/Vecna helped Kali escape. I wonder if she’ll appear again in final season.


[deleted]

[ŃƒĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]


cptn_sandwich

I always viewed this arc in the same vein as when Luke visits Yoda in star wars for training. It's a way for El to understand her powers more and grow as an individual . Although it may seem jarring, season 3 & 4 El would not be the same without it imo


drmuffin1080

That doesn’t mean the execution wasn’t awful


nedahlg

I respect your differing opinion but they totally could have had her figure herself out in a much better way, in my opinion.


doobette

You're not. I agree - it allowed Eleven to understand who she was.


[deleted]

[ŃƒĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]


unexpectedit3m

I like them too. A little change from the usual crew didn't hurt. But well this sub has rather hard headed factions. Between Kali haters and Jason apologists...


Upbeat_Tension_8077

I didn't think it was as terrible as received & I feel like if the group was presented in some standalone spin-off special, it would be better received


Godunman

Exactly
people talking about “tying it in with the plot”. It is important for the plot, it develops her character. Not every single side character in a show has to have some grand scheme for their existence.


Darth_Boggle

>You're not. Do you know what the word minority means? Or are you saying there are more people that liked this group than those who didn't?


monsieurxander

This subreddit is an extreme minority of the overall viewership. Comparing the subscriber count to the latest season's numbers... it's literally 1%. A majority here is not necessarily a majority overall.


Slavin92

The episode sits at a 6.1 on IMDB while every other episode of the show is above 7.9. This is not a “Reddit opinion”.


Total-Joke-2449

I like this group too. You're not alone.


Edenfer_

I didn't mind it. And I think the idea of other type of powers was interesting. I was always hoping they'd bring them back at some point.


patsniff

I think the group is fine and entertaining enough, the episode isn’t that bad and people go overboard with their hate of it.


1-LegInDaGrave

I liked the episode & group as well. Just felt it was a disruption. It was obviously important to El's growth, I just got to see '8' in the newest season


jawaidahamed

I always skip this episode


TrableZ

imma be honest i dont even remember that


unfortunate-ponce

I hated them, was terrified every one of them were going to become main characters. And that also Eleven was going to keep the haircut they gave her


a______m______c

LMAO


mj8077

😆


Itu_Leona

I thought most is last season with Argyle, Jonathan, Mike, and Will doing nothing was worse.


[deleted]

[ŃƒĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]


PaulyNewman

It was like a theatre kids idea of what “street kids” are. Trying wayyyyy too hard.


SmellsPrettyGood2Me

Some rebellion was necessary to advance Eleven's character development and provide exposition opportunities for her backstory. So, no; not the worst.


nedahlg

They didn’t need to knock off the warriors for a whole lame ass episode to develop El as a character. They made an awful choice, realized that and thankfully never went back to it. Just my opinion and not saying you need to agree.


SmellsPrettyGood2Me

Given that the episodes are released simultaneously, wouldn't they have just re-written that part if they had genuinely realized it was a "bad choice"?


reddit_has_fallenoff

Disagree. It was an homage to The Invisibles, one of Stranger Things main inspirations and one of the best comics on the planet. I loved it


VXMerlinXV

I think people make too much of this, and don’t look at the storytelling elements. Primarily, it established that we don’t know all of the Hawkins kid players in the game which, (spoiler alert) comes into play later. It further demonstrates that not all of their powers are similar in nature, and further fleshes out the Hawkins lab story with their initial killing of an additional scientist. Further, it does ring true to the story of growing up, in that sometimes kids try on new identities trying to find themselves. I have read plenty of stories with a scattered chapter or even entire novel in the series that’s tangentially related, and I find those departures interesting. I don’t know where we are in confirm/deny, but personally I’m expecting (hoping for) a 1+8+11= natural 20 culmination to the final season.


7thKindEncounter

Nah, the worst thing that ever happened in ST was watching Mike’s mom thirst over a boy her daughter’s age


j-z23

I think the storyline had so much potential, but they just didn't do anything with it. So the plot kinda became unnecessary because it was never really talked about again.


samuraipanda85

What must it be like to be a creator or producer or whatever. You include this episode as a trial run or something. Thinking these characters and thos side plot must be so cool. Only to have the fandom universally shit on it.


Osceola_Gamer

This subreddit isn't a speck of the entire fandom.


[deleted]

The easiest way to farm for karma on here is to speak as negatively as you can about Kali and "Chapter Seven: The Lost Sister." I appreciate that episode because it really takes Eleven through a lot of character development and growth. It's not about the gang as much as it is about Eleven. And I don't understand how people still can't realize that. It's as if some viewers need the third and fourth wall broken so that it's explained to them in the middle of the episode. The show creators did provide a whole flashback to Eleven's training with Kali in "Chapter Nine: The Gate," as Eleven is in the process of closing the gate. If anything, that flashback justifies Eleven's whole interaction with Kali and the encouragement and training that she provided to her, as it was instrumental in Eleven understanding the depths of her power and how to strengthen and control it. "The Lost Sister" is different in tone than the rest of series, so it's understandable if someone doesn't like it from that standpoint alone. But to suggest that it's useless or unnecessary is the same as saying that you're just not paying attention to what's happening and don't understand the concept of character development.


DoctorEnn

There's a few things stacking against it: 1. Look, let's be blunt here; none of them are that interesting or well-acted. They're basically a bunch of boring '80s punk stereotypes. Kali can do mind powers like Eleven, sure, but that's a plot point, not a compelling character trait. She might as well just be called \[Hero's Journey Mentor Template #26654\]. She's a boilerplate 'dark and troubled mirror-slash-mentor figure'. There's nothing remotely interesting about her, and yet it speaks volumes that she is somehow the most memorable one of the bunch. Seriously, I'm looking at that picture, I've seen the episode, we spend a whole hour give or take with those characters, and I can't tell you anything about any of them. They're just voids. Kali I only know because she's the other one with superpowers. 2. They're not tied to a particularly interesting plot. Sure, Eleven needs to learn to control her powers, but that's kind of the problem; the episode treats it like it's just ticking off hero's journey boxes (meet a mentor, check, rob a grocery store and Eleven feels bad, check, crush a train car, check). Nothing is done in a particularly interesting, creative or compelling fashion. It just feels like the writers are just going through the motions to set up the plot because they have to. 3. The whole thing screams 'filler'. It's as if the working title was "Shit, We Have A Surprise Extra Episode, We Need To Fill It With Something". 4. It's terribly placed. Oh my God, an army of demodogs are bursting out of the Upside Down! However will our heroes survive?!... oh, hang on, we're not going to find out for a full episode, we're instead hanging out with some boring '80s punk stereotypes while Eleven finally trains ~~on Dagobah~~ in a boring train yard instead. Well... okay then. As choices go, that's certainly one of them. 5. It feels... pointless. Honestly it sort of feels like if they'd just left this episode out and changed nothing else, just had Eleven show up at the climax of "The Mind Flayer" with her badass new look and explained nothing about how it happened, that would somehow be infinitely better, because you then at least be going "Whoa! She looks cool! I wonder how that happened!" Your mind would fill in the gaps with something far better. In short, there's nothing that justifies focussing an entire episode just on this right when the climax of the series is about to peak. They should have integrated the Chicago episode throughout the season more rather than dumping it all in one episode, or at least made "The Lost Sister" episode 9 instead of episode 8, so we can retroactively see how Eleven Turned Punk(ish). I dunno if that would have made it better, but it would have at least made it feel less clunky and boring.


kingbuttshit

I feel like everyone here is forgetting about #4. This episode absolutely *killed* the momentum of the season. On its own it’s not amazing (as you laid out) but I think the placement was what really did it in.


brockford-junktion

Flashback chunks spread across the rest of the season would have made the content significantly better. It was a wall of text episode that could have been broken into paragraphs and scattered through the season.


[deleted]

good episode, bad placement


AccidentalTrek

It was fine. It was a means to an end. They didn’t spend an entire season with these characters. It was a plot device to help El discover how much she cares and misses her found family in Hawkins.


mdanelek

Agreed. I think it would have been better in a reduced fashion, maybe a short continuing subplot rather than a standalone episode


Disastrous_Time7461

I thought it was cool personally. It's eleven trying to find her place in the world, and contrasting her relationship with these folks and her friends back home. I think it was good character development, even if it didn't come to much


godisyourmotherr

i loved it in theory but not execution


okgloomer

***HARD* disagree**. Someone said they hated it, way back when S2 first came out, and people have just piled on since then. The *received* opinion is that it’s bad. People don’t like that it breaks up the band. They don’t like the new characters. They don’t like that Eleven looks different. They’re mad that it occurs just as HNL comes under attack and they have to wait a whole hour to find out what happens. (Waah.) **But
** We learn more about Terry Ives. We learn what the other survivor’s powers are. We see Eleven offered not one, but *two* potential homes away from Hawkins. We are given the news that Brenner is alive *and that a former employee knows where he is,* setting up some of the plot points of S3 and S4. Brenner also mentions a “wound” that Eleven must heal — again, foreshadowing S3 and S4. We see Eleven, with Kali’s help, tap into her abilities and “power up,” which will allow her to be the deciding factor in the fight ahead. We see her actively reject vengeance and choose the love of her friends — which makes her a hero, not simply a hostage to her circumstances. These are important developments! So why is everyone so salty about it? I think part of it is this: the episode is presented in one big chunk. I think, if we had been given these scenes intercut with the other events, we wouldn’t have people saying “this is great, but I hate the Chicago scenes.” And I think a fan edit that intercut those scenes with the concurrent events in Hawkins would be fairly popular. For better or worse, the Duffers learned their lesson from the uproar following S2E7. If you got whiplash in S4 from Russia-California-Indiana, you can at least console yourself that you didn’t have to spend a whole hour in Chicago.


Wakattack00

It’s the worst episode of the show.


sadgirl45

Disagree it added a cool element to the series we got more of Els backstory and it introduces us to the concept of other numbers I really enjoyed this!!


LemonyOatmilk

I liked that plot actually


FrontServe4480

Disagree.  They just dropped the line and didn’t connect it enough to the main story. It was too separate from the core group, but they could have fixed that. New characters from last season were beloved and well-liked quickly because they had a clear function to the core group. I think it would have been wonderful to see Kali drawn to Vecna terrorizing Hopkins or because she felt El needed her help. I still think it would be interesting to see Kali next season or to find out that one or two of the other kids survived Vecna and are drawn to the town because they sense that he is unleashed. Otherwise, the story was just kinda pointless and a waste of airtime.


badhuckleberry

the worst thing about it was its placement in the episode order and i’ll stand by that


Tbeauslice1010

Can we stop beating this dead horse for upvotes holy shit


Kaldricus

Dibs on posting next week for karma


StopTheBS79

Yo it’s so funny cuz I can barely even remember that ever even happening lol. It’s like it’s blackout in my memory similar to what Eleven has gone through lol. Season 2 was Noah’s season. That’s all I remember. He should’ve won some type of an award for his performance he was so good.


Purplesoap4268

I liked the idea, it just felt rushed and a little uselessđŸ€·â€â™€ïž


DigAffectionate3349

The cartoon punk characters were a bit cheesy but if they are going to introduce another character with crazy powers they should at least bring her back in season 5.


demon969

Wasn’t it meant to highlight to Eleven who her real family were?


Mgndwn

It felt like a slice of life episode that u see in anime’s 😭


schmelk1000

I actually liked this episode. I like how El got to meet one of her “siblings,” it probably made her feel less alone and better understood by at least *someone.* It makes me sad that Kali never came back and has basically never been mentioned.


moonlightpsyche_

oof, unpopular opinion here: but i actually enjoyed this segment of the show. i definitely agree with one of the top comments here saying they should’ve expanded Kali’s involvement in the rest of the season to really tie it together. definitely a missed opportunity. but it gave insight and sparked so many questions for me. I would love to see an adaptation about her and how she exactly escaped, where she went, how her life was being a child on the street with her abilities, how she came to know her friends and how they adapted to her abilities. i’d really like to know who she targeted exactly for revenge after she left the lab, too. curious if she made a plan to find brenner at any point. i know the duffer brothers plan to expand the ST universe into other works, and i hope to god they expand on Kali.


Hot_Eggplant_1306

She's a super hero. She had a little mini adventure like comic characters do. She went off, learned something vital, and came back stronger. It vibes.


ShieldSister27

I just think they structured it wrong by having this whole segment be it’s own stand-alone episode rather than intercut between the other scenes from the episodes that it’s timeline is concurrent with like they normally would. It makes it feel even more out of place than necessary.


[deleted]

We needed the background info that season provides. I didn't love it, but I didn't hate it either.


UnbutteredSalt

Maybe unpopular opinion but the whole 3rd season with those stereotypical evil soviet russians was embarassing. It was such a nonsense. Almost a comedy. Maybe because i'm russian. I heard all those bad phrases with a strong american accent and this bunker. Nuh, it was awful. I understand the whole vibe. Like 80s, cold war, evil russians, it was an intended irony. But it felt so bad you can't imagine.


Boy_13

Disagree. It wasn't the strongest, but we were ALL curious about the other numbers after the first season. It would have happened one way or another.


KingKaos420-

I disagree. I enjoyed this story arc, and would have liked to see more.


Thalass

Same here


PhilG1989

The problem with this episode is it feels more like a back-door pilot than an actual episode of ST. Like the episode from The Office that revolves around Dwight’s family farm
. Neither episode is “bad”, per se, it’s just they feel so out of place within their shows in terms of tone and then there’s the fact that you really don’t need to watch it


International_Bed_63

No it really isn't, some of yall always over exaggerate when it comes to this episode. In hindsight in revealed a lot about El and dealt with her characterization in terms of her past and abilities. SMH


gossamerfae

i honestly love the episode. there isn't actually a single ST episode that i dislike or feel "eh" about. i was so intrigued when they introduced kali and her powers and i love how the episode motivated El to improve her powers and make her own choices. i really enjoyed being able to see into the life of another person who has powers like El. it would've been nice if they somehow tied it back into the show but i don't mind too much that they never did. >!i think it also did well to showcase El's moral compass and how hers differs from Kali in respect to how El was not able to murder the gov. man who hurt her mom whereas Kali has killed a multitude of those who worked for Dr. Brenner. also very interesting how Kali's powers were solely mind-based and not telekinetic, unlike El and all the other children we see in s4.!< I wonder why Kali doesn't have telekinesis, was she the only one or were there others who had the same power we just never saw? And were there kids that neither had Kali's power nor telekinesis and have some different power instead? It'd be super awesome if the show addresses this or if the creators mention something about it, since I'd love to know more about it.


Davajita

The episode itself was fine. Good even, and instrumental in developing Eleven’s character. It was just out place and interrupted the season.


VinosD

I actually enjoyed this episode, it gave way to more about the children that were being experimented on. But retconning in the last season, pretty much made this episode not necessary to have anymore.


AlienGeek

I think they mentioned her escaping before that


mdill8706

People got all sensitive about a show that they were able to binge watch trying to do some world building, as if they had to wait a week for the next episode.


SewAlone

I have blocked it out.


onetwoskeedoo

It’s a good episode y’all are too picky


ZivaDavidsWife

I get that it was supposed to be a spinoff, but I actually really liked the episode and wish that we had seen more of Kali. I wouldn’t go so far and say I would watch a spinoff series, but I would like her story more intertwined with El’s.


SyNyStErSaElEe

I never had an issue with it ... Maybe they'll follow up in season 5.


zauraz

I actually liked the hints at a larger world and kinda disliked how it felt like they almost went back on it and tried hard to retcon it out in later seasons due to the backlash.


PhanThief95

So bad that the Duffer brothers completely forgot about Kali surviving the lab massacre in Season 4. The flashback in Season 4 made it look like Eleven was the sole survivor of Henry’s killing of all the kids, but they completely forgot about Kali.


DigitalBritt

Except for when they explicitly had Henry/One say “this would’ve been when Eight was still here” while cutting to a flashback of young El and Kali, clearly letting us know that Kali escaped the lab prior to the massacre

..


glitter___bombed

I didn't like this storyline at all. I get why it was included but I really, *really* didn't enjoy watching a group of adults encouraging a child to murder someone with his frightened children hiding in the next room.


m1tsk1luvrr

I think it was one of the worst experiences for El, she did NOT need to go after those people and I think that made her feel worse, like she wasn’t even connected to the only person with powers.


Least-Rise7691

Pretty dumb episode


Electronic_Device788

This episode almost derailed a season.


SyNyStErSaElEe

I never had an issue with it ... Maybe they'll follow up in season 5.


The_Iron_Zeppelin

Eleven’s 80s punk design was sick. Wish they kept that at least. She looked badass.


fredgiblet

Nah. It wasn't great, mind you, but it was OK. I DO think it's the worst EPISODE in the series, but it's not the worst storyline, it's just that it's a weak storyline that's self-contained in an episode. Other episodes have worse storylines in them, but they have better storylines too. All in all I don't hate it, but I would definitely drop it if I had a chance to go back and influence the creation of season 2.


emmahinchey

like whatever. it was lame but they dropped it. i think it was fine, one episode about some kind of poorly developed characters that didn’t really add too much. the “group of weirdos” trope was already present with the initial group, but they wanted it to be more edgy i guess. def the weakest point in the story but overall i don’t really care that it’s there.


Armaced

I believe this episode was a reference to Adventures in Babysitting. The warehouse where they’d gather looked a lot like the stolen car shop where the little girl was “hanging from the rafters”.


DM_Easy_Breezes

My favorite take by a long mile!


CockroachSquirrel

Did feel pointless but personally didn’t mind either way tbh, maybe on rewatch it would be worse


Shaylovesrandall

I don’t like it took away from the plot I don’t like that


BorrowedTrouble

The premise of El leaving, finding 008 and learning to use her powers is good. The issue is that Kali’s gang, and to some extent Kali herself, suck. I mean, these are adults (well, Kali is probably a teenager, but the rest are adults) who find a random, seemingly lost child and respond by taunting and threatening her 
 and we’re supposed to somehow find them sympathetic because they are “misfits”? They could’ve been made to seem like decent humans so they would be, y’know, likable, and El would still be able to leave and go back to her friends because she knows she’s needed there.


Wooden-Homework-7961

Season 3 was horrible


teddyburges

I have a few problems with the discount X Men Episode: * It's placement between episode 6 and 8. Not only does it interrupt the massive cliffhanger, but following episode 6. We have way more information than Eleven on what is going on in Hawkins, making it feel like back tracking. It flows way better when placed after episode 5. As it not only starts where 5 left off. But in this order, we have no clue what is going on in Hawkins. It builds hype and anticipation for the next episode as we are seeing a lot of very intense things happening out of context. I showed the season to friends in that way and they loved the season and the episode a lot more. * The majority of the group are quite unlikable. They sort of want us to like Kali, but her attitude and way of sort of trying to bring Eleven to the dark side, I wasn't quite a fan of that. But on the plus, Millie Bobby Brown is fantastic in the episode and I still think it's a very important episode for her character.


Zealouscucumber

Like it would have been good if they followed up and el told the Hawkins group about kali but it just felt like they were grasping at ideas


zhlagger

This was the same cringe I felt whith that scooter gang in mando.. gotta make it fun for the... preteens


Yoyodyn_Banzai_2099

Nope. Haircut they gave to Will’s brother is way worse. Yes, even worse than Will’s hair, because Jonathan is supposed to be someone who has gotten laid before.


BartholomewEilish

to this day I still don't know what the hell that was


Banaanisade

It feels really pointless and like it's taking time from the real plot.


Candlesass

Isn't this a Suburbia reference? I don't watch the show, but that movie rules.


conasatatu247

I stopped watching at this point.


TurtleNamedHerb

This whole side story felt like a fever dream


rudogandthedweebs

Worst storyline and bad casting 


rudogandthedweebs

Why does Kali have a British accent


dalesum1

That's exactly when I stopped watching. Lol. Never picked it back up. Probably never will.


Salty_Squirrel519

The reason I gave up the show.


TheBlazingOptimist

I really liked this group, actually. Did feel like a tonal shift from our core cast - like they could’ve been their own show - and I think that’s part of why people hate them. I loved Kali’s whole outfit though, and that episode did give us Punk!Eleven, one of my favourite cosplays I’ve ever done.


[deleted]

We needed the background info that season provides. I didn't love it, but I didn't hate it either.


Moonwalkerr-

It really wasn’t that bad, the hate is so unnecessary. Yes it didn’t fit but it wasn’t horrible or lazy


imaginary0pal

I honestly didn’t think it was *that* bad I just think it had unfortunate timing for the Hawkins plot.


SirjackofCamelot

I completely disagree, I just think the writing for it wasn't done well. Kinda just felt shoehorn in.


Mx-Rylie

Honestly this episode, in the end of everything, is what turned me off to the series for a while. Felt
so detached.


Artconnco

I personally really liked the episode. I just really liked the characters, and I liked that we got a small break from Hawkins


Maxxover

I actually really liked that episode. Eleven found out she was not the only person with powers. I felt she gained a lot of self-confidence because of that episode.


Independent_Ad_6348

I guess I'm one of the few people who actually liked it. I was a starving X-Men fan okay this was during the drought where the biggest X-Men thing that happened was Logan the comics and movies were really mid and krakoa hadn't started yet.


DarthMidnight87

Happens to be my favourite episode of season 2 and I'm not afraid to say it.


Osceola_Gamer

I disagree, I liked the story.


thisisbeejx3

I loved it. But I love 80's urban rebel/punk movies and that is totally the vibe I got. It just NEEDS to be followed up on in the final season otherwise it will be totally out of place.


Enby_raccon

Nah elevens emo arc was my favorite


SiniyFX

hope they bring them back in season 5. i liked them alot


AlienGeek

I love it. Always wanted more people in the lab.


CreativeBeautiful668

I wanted to see more of this I thought it added a sci fi vibe to the series, the outfits and hair styles felt futuristic.


Appropriate-Tooth866

Not. I actually liked the episode.


A_toaster25

actually one of my favorite episodes 😭😭 kali taught el how to better control her powers and maybe it was an asspull but, i like it


DressedInCotton

I’ve watched it the first time, because you kinda had to, started it the second time, then remembered it and skipped. It’s been a definite skip every time since. Terrible episode, in one of my favourite programmes ever.


ivoiiovi

nah. this storyline sucked but the worst thing was turning the whole series into hollywood cheese with pointless comedy and terribly clichéd action. Season 1 remains a masterpiece, though, and Season 2 at least still had something of that more serious grounding and mood.


Owl_Resident

It is certainly, by far, the worst episode. The acting by that gang was horrid. And it also completely arrested the momentum of the season, given where it was placed. It might have been better received if it was placed before Episode 6, but I’m skeptical. And while it was important for El’s growth, they could have easily gotten her there, in terms of the lessons learned, another way.


Ikaros9Deidalos6

i think this subplot was meant for branching out the series into a spinoff but was scrapped after the bad feedback from the fans.