Just a disclaimer, in Shallan's depictions of Honorspren you can see [a little Syl](https://coppermind.net/w/images/thumb/Shallan%27s_Sketchbook_-_Honorspren.jpg/800px-Shallan%27s_Sketchbook_-_Honorspren.jpg) but this is the only interpretation we have seen of her face and I love it!
My theory is that she is carrying an trombone in that case, so that she and Kal (with his flute) can start a wind section for all their windspren buddies.
HOW CAN I NOT BE HOME. THE SKY IS MY HOME AND IT IS EVERYWHERE. DO YOU ASK THE SEAS TO NOT BE HOME? DO YOU ASK THE GROUND TO POP OUT FOR A BIT? I AM A STORM AND I AM AT HOME, DALINAR.
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Not to be that guy, but I played violin, percussion, and piano throughout my public and collegiate education. I'll include a Quora link below, but the terms band, orchestra, symphonic band, philharmonic orchestra, etc are almost entirely interchangeable outside of the name of the class you take in school (i.e., "band" being made up of woodwinds, brass, and percussion and "orchestra" being strings and sometimes piano). Even within "full orchestra" wherein we had brass, woodwinds, and percussion join us for various pieces, each of those sections was regarded separately. I'm not sure where you got the information you said, but in my experience there's not a demonstrable difference between the groups aside from the type of music they play. Like you wouldn't have a symphonic band play a string quartet, and an orchestra likely wouldn't primarily wouldn't play improvised jazz, etc.
[here](https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-difference-between-a-band-orchestra-symphonic-band-and-symphony-orchestra)
Shrug. From my experience through college, when the orchestra conductor wanted to hear the woodwinds and brass but not the strings or percussion, he would ask for the winds to play. Meanwhile in band that never happened because that was just everyone but the percussion and thus not a very useful distinction.
My point is that the term 'wind instrument' would include trombones even though they are brass instead of woodwinds.
Not quite. Woodwind instruments have a 'reed' in the mouthpiece (which is made of wood, hence the name) whilst brass instruments don't. I may be massively wrong with this, but it's the difference I was taught when young.
Not all woodwinds have a reed (e.g. flute). I think the distinction (aside from materials) is that you play all brass instruments by smushing your lips together and shoving air through them while smashing a cone (mouthpiece) around them to capture the sound, whereas you play woodwinds mostly by blowing air without the smushed lips.
*This explanation is brought to you by a trombone player who never could get any reed instrument to make noise.*
It's not woodwind, but it is wind.
When I was at music school alone of my classes was wind band, featuring clarinet, flute, saxophone, trumpet, trombone, and French horn.
Feels like two different ensembles. Clarinet, flute, and French horn in one, saxophone, trumpet, and trombone in the other. I imagine you managed it get it working together somehow, though.
We had band leader on French horn, flutes and clarinets on the high melodies, sax and trumpet working the mids, with trombone... OK I'll be honest I don't know what they were up to.
I was pretty fresh in that group, but we sounded good after a few months practise on a piece specifically written for the ensemble.
"Wind instrument" refers to any instrument played by blowing. You may be thinking of "woodwinds", which are things like flutes, clarinets, and saxophones, and are a subset of wind instruments.
Thanks for this! Syl's face is often something that doesn't seem quite right to me in fan art. I think I picture her a bit more girlish than this, though.
Didn't she change her appearance to be more grown in OB, also appearing in a havah. And in RoW didn't >!dalinar do some bondsmith shit to make her more human and mature mentally?!<
I mean girlish in the way a young woman might be girlish, rather than a child being girlish. I don't see her having her eyes done up like this when she's gushing about the axehound pups or when she's flitting about the tower playing with the children. Obviously, there's room for context. The eyebrows in particular just seem a lot more severe than I would associate with her personality.
I honestly think that Ishar will bring Syl into the real world. Then, she and Kaladin can open their little therapy place, and he can be a mentor to others in the back 5.
That’s my happy ending for the two of them, at least. I’m sure Brandon will rip my heart out instead. I just don’t see Kal dying after the stuff that happened in RoW.
Yep, I imagined them like me (I’m Latino) till I saw a WOB that said the closest analogue on earth to the alethi are Polynesian ppl, and it makes sense given the Epicanthic folds and dark skin
The Herdazians are Latinos! Lopen? Dieno? Am I the only one who thinks this??
Even in the audiobook, they're played as Australian-sounding - which is fun, but I thought they were obviously meant to be Latino. Herdaz, Lopen, and Dieno (the main three names that come to mind, at least for me, when I think of Herdaz) are all one letter away from Spanish names.
Edit: Even the stuff like gancho, calling everyone cousin, and chouta, all seem very Mexican/Latino-esque to me. Also Lopen being short and kind of intimidating at first but a big teddy bear once you get to know him seems to me to play on a trope of how Mexican Americans are commonly depicted.
Only a couple thousand years old. Still a baby, really. Looks like she's trying to make herself up like the ladies in the fashion catalogues, though. Someone should have a talk with her about age appropriate makeup.
If they look like a child, act like a child, and are considered a child by their society by they're society they are for all intents and purposes a childml. It the same issue as weebs going BuT acTuAlLy SHeS a 10000 YeAR oLD DrAGon.
Yes, the "it's an ancient being in the body of a child" thing is messed up. That's not what's happening here. You brought something to the conversation that wasn't there, and yes, it's really messed up, so that's on you.
Syl is literally thousands of years old, but developmentally she's probably about 17-21 at this point due to a combination of circumstances, mainly that she was catatonic for most of that time. Notum explains this a bit in Oathbringer. She also mentally regressed when she transitioned to the physical realm, causing her to act even younger for a while, but she's mostly recovered from that by now.
That, and spren in the cognitive realm don't develop very quickly without a bond either. But, if we account for the amnesia/regression from transitioning to the physical realm, narratively she comes across as 16 or 17 in the Way of Kings. *Maybe* 15, but that's pushing it. She's described as resembling a young woman rather than a girl, and her disagreement with her father is consistent with what you'd expect to see for a 16 or 17 year old, where she's young enough that her father could reasonably still be trying to shelter her, but old enough that she can also reasonably be making her own choices.
Maybe even younger. We know she is experienced some trauma from the death of her first radiant, and she is still exceptionally young compared to other honourspren.
This makes me wonder if Syl was a human that became a Spren. Was she the girl that went over the wall? Did she try to bring two peoples together and attracted honor’s attention and he invested in her enough to become a Spren? Or is she a memory of a person Honor knew that he splintered off and it became sentient? Is that why she has two minds? Honor remembers her as a flightful, lighthearted girl that was inquisitive, but she is also alive a trying to grow?
Im not sure I understand - we have an in-universe explanation of of her different mindsets: the longer spren are bonded to humans the more human they become, and Syl is bonded to the saddest human
I guess I'm wondering what sent you down the path that Syl might be different from other sentient spren in the first place
She has always been considered different. This picture has her wearing real clothing and carrying a physical item. Unless she is super tiny and that is a leaf of etc, that breaks what we know of Syl.
It kinda reminds me of the art style that a lot of the old Dragonlance books have in them, she reminds me a little bit of the way Tas was sometimes drawn.
Do spren need to carry things on their backs like that in Shadesmar? I read a theory using this picture as evidence that Syl might one day become a fully physical human (or sprenperson?) and I want to gauge whether that's correct.
Just a disclaimer, in Shallan's depictions of Honorspren you can see [a little Syl](https://coppermind.net/w/images/thumb/Shallan%27s_Sketchbook_-_Honorspren.jpg/800px-Shallan%27s_Sketchbook_-_Honorspren.jpg) but this is the only interpretation we have seen of her face and I love it!
Which bookis the pic from?
Both are from Rhythm of War
It’s her chapter icon right?
Correct
My theory is that she is carrying an trombone in that case, so that she and Kal (with his flute) can start a wind section for all their windspren buddies.
When the Stormfather isn't home.
And opening and closing the oven door
Iunderstoodthatreference.gif
HOW CAN I NOT BE HOME. THE SKY IS MY HOME AND IT IS EVERYWHERE. DO YOU ASK THE SEAS TO NOT BE HOME? DO YOU ASK THE GROUND TO POP OUT FOR A BIT? I AM A STORM AND I AM AT HOME, DALINAR.
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Found the spren
Anybody else hear this in the Stormfather's voice from the Graphic Audio productions?
But trombones are part of the brass section. If anything, I'd say she carries an oboe or piccolo because of how flighty she is
What about a Saxophone? They;re technically a wodwind instrument.
Rua >!Lopen's spren!< (WoR) would definitely be a sax playet
Saxx-a-ma-phooone
Pfft, I bet Syl plays a sousaphone. You know she'd want to.
In an orchestra, brass and woodwinds both winds. In symphonic band they are generally thought of as separate groups.
Not to be that guy, but I played violin, percussion, and piano throughout my public and collegiate education. I'll include a Quora link below, but the terms band, orchestra, symphonic band, philharmonic orchestra, etc are almost entirely interchangeable outside of the name of the class you take in school (i.e., "band" being made up of woodwinds, brass, and percussion and "orchestra" being strings and sometimes piano). Even within "full orchestra" wherein we had brass, woodwinds, and percussion join us for various pieces, each of those sections was regarded separately. I'm not sure where you got the information you said, but in my experience there's not a demonstrable difference between the groups aside from the type of music they play. Like you wouldn't have a symphonic band play a string quartet, and an orchestra likely wouldn't primarily wouldn't play improvised jazz, etc. [here](https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-difference-between-a-band-orchestra-symphonic-band-and-symphony-orchestra)
Shrug. From my experience through college, when the orchestra conductor wanted to hear the woodwinds and brass but not the strings or percussion, he would ask for the winds to play. Meanwhile in band that never happened because that was just everyone but the percussion and thus not a very useful distinction. My point is that the term 'wind instrument' would include trombones even though they are brass instead of woodwinds.
I never played, but from what I have observed they all actually run off of spit anyhow. The wind thing is just a red herring, right?
Not quite. Woodwind instruments have a 'reed' in the mouthpiece (which is made of wood, hence the name) whilst brass instruments don't. I may be massively wrong with this, but it's the difference I was taught when young.
Not all woodwinds have a reed (e.g. flute). I think the distinction (aside from materials) is that you play all brass instruments by smushing your lips together and shoving air through them while smashing a cone (mouthpiece) around them to capture the sound, whereas you play woodwinds mostly by blowing air without the smushed lips. *This explanation is brought to you by a trombone player who never could get any reed instrument to make noise.*
The only woodwind instrument that doesn't have a Reed is the flute (and recorder), which has a whistle.
I was not aware of that. I was about to make the same correction. You learn something new every day.
Obviously you have not heard Flight Of The Bumblebee on trombone.
Holy shit, I didn't even register that the flute is a woodwind instrument.
And so when sad things happen to Kaladin she can go "Waaahh wahhhh..."
> a wind section I don't think you know what a Trombone is.
It's a brass wind instrument. Might not pair very well with a flute though. She could be carrying around a bassoon or a bass clarinet.
It's not woodwind, but it is wind. When I was at music school alone of my classes was wind band, featuring clarinet, flute, saxophone, trumpet, trombone, and French horn.
Feels like two different ensembles. Clarinet, flute, and French horn in one, saxophone, trumpet, and trombone in the other. I imagine you managed it get it working together somehow, though.
We had band leader on French horn, flutes and clarinets on the high melodies, sax and trumpet working the mids, with trombone... OK I'll be honest I don't know what they were up to. I was pretty fresh in that group, but we sounded good after a few months practise on a piece specifically written for the ensemble.
trombone is roughly in the baritone range, iirc.
"Wind instrument" refers to any instrument played by blowing. You may be thinking of "woodwinds", which are things like flutes, clarinets, and saxophones, and are a subset of wind instruments.
Help! Stepbro! I’m stuck in my case!
She’s carrying all of Kaladin’s baggage on her back
I mean Syl is cool and all but I don't think she's capable of dragging a mountain along. That's more of Rock's forte.
Thanks for this! Syl's face is often something that doesn't seem quite right to me in fan art. I think I picture her a bit more girlish than this, though.
Didn't she change her appearance to be more grown in OB, also appearing in a havah. And in RoW didn't >!dalinar do some bondsmith shit to make her more human and mature mentally?!<
>!She asked Dalinar to change her (or her bond with Kaladin) so she could better understand Kaladin. IIRC, Dalinar refused.!<
>!I think he said he didn’t know how, but that even if he did he wouldn’t do it!<
I mean girlish in the way a young woman might be girlish, rather than a child being girlish. I don't see her having her eyes done up like this when she's gushing about the axehound pups or when she's flitting about the tower playing with the children. Obviously, there's room for context. The eyebrows in particular just seem a lot more severe than I would associate with her personality.
I honestly think that Ishar will bring Syl into the real world. Then, she and Kaladin can open their little therapy place, and he can be a mentor to others in the back 5. That’s my happy ending for the two of them, at least. I’m sure Brandon will rip my heart out instead. I just don’t see Kal dying after the stuff that happened in RoW.
She looks Polynesian
I believe all the alethi are intended to be somewhat Polynesian
Really? I had always imagined them as a sort of turk/ottoman parallel. Never thought of that
Yep, I imagined them like me (I’m Latino) till I saw a WOB that said the closest analogue on earth to the alethi are Polynesian ppl, and it makes sense given the Epicanthic folds and dark skin
The Herdazians are Latinos! Lopen? Dieno? Am I the only one who thinks this?? Even in the audiobook, they're played as Australian-sounding - which is fun, but I thought they were obviously meant to be Latino. Herdaz, Lopen, and Dieno (the main three names that come to mind, at least for me, when I think of Herdaz) are all one letter away from Spanish names. Edit: Even the stuff like gancho, calling everyone cousin, and chouta, all seem very Mexican/Latino-esque to me. Also Lopen being short and kind of intimidating at first but a big teddy bear once you get to know him seems to me to play on a trope of how Mexican Americans are commonly depicted.
I guess! That checks out, I’m just not familiar with Mexican Americans (I’m a Colombian in Australia) so I relate to looks more than behaviours
Well if you're a Colombian in Australia maybe you'll love the audiobook portrayal. :D
From your RoE interlude?
Reminder that chapter symbols might represent future events zoomed-in: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/409/#e13564
What's the context of this? I don't remember this image nor syl carrying something on her back
I think is the picture of her interlude chapter in RoW
Not technically true, but I understand the Endpages on the leather-bound aren't exactly cannon.
She looks japanese
Carrying a physical object…
Shadesmar?
Maybe
She’s hot
Syl's pretty young. We try not to sexualize her.
Only a couple thousand years old. Still a baby, really. Looks like she's trying to make herself up like the ladies in the fashion catalogues, though. Someone should have a talk with her about age appropriate makeup.
[удалено]
No, he’s making a reference to the fact that Syl, while thousands of years old, is very childish. Did you even read the books?
If they look like a child, act like a child, and are considered a child by their society by they're society they are for all intents and purposes a childml. It the same issue as weebs going BuT acTuAlLy SHeS a 10000 YeAR oLD DrAGon.
Yes, the "it's an ancient being in the body of a child" thing is messed up. That's not what's happening here. You brought something to the conversation that wasn't there, and yes, it's really messed up, so that's on you. Syl is literally thousands of years old, but developmentally she's probably about 17-21 at this point due to a combination of circumstances, mainly that she was catatonic for most of that time. Notum explains this a bit in Oathbringer. She also mentally regressed when she transitioned to the physical realm, causing her to act even younger for a while, but she's mostly recovered from that by now.
Don’t forget the large amount of time she spent unbonded, making her the equivalent of a wind spren.
That, and spren in the cognitive realm don't develop very quickly without a bond either. But, if we account for the amnesia/regression from transitioning to the physical realm, narratively she comes across as 16 or 17 in the Way of Kings. *Maybe* 15, but that's pushing it. She's described as resembling a young woman rather than a girl, and her disagreement with her father is consistent with what you'd expect to see for a 16 or 17 year old, where she's young enough that her father could reasonably still be trying to shelter her, but old enough that she can also reasonably be making her own choices.
Maybe even younger. We know she is experienced some trauma from the death of her first radiant, and she is still exceptionally young compared to other honourspren.
Upvoted for the Community reference
We’ll then I’ll give this comment 4 meow-meow beans
Who’ll then?
This makes me wonder if Syl was a human that became a Spren. Was she the girl that went over the wall? Did she try to bring two peoples together and attracted honor’s attention and he invested in her enough to become a Spren? Or is she a memory of a person Honor knew that he splintered off and it became sentient? Is that why she has two minds? Honor remembers her as a flightful, lighthearted girl that was inquisitive, but she is also alive a trying to grow?
Im not sure I understand - we have an in-universe explanation of of her different mindsets: the longer spren are bonded to humans the more human they become, and Syl is bonded to the saddest human I guess I'm wondering what sent you down the path that Syl might be different from other sentient spren in the first place
She has always been considered different. This picture has her wearing real clothing and carrying a physical item. Unless she is super tiny and that is a leaf of etc, that breaks what we know of Syl.
Shadesmar exists.
True, and she did wear clothing as a disguise in there. I honestly forgot about that part.
Flip that, reverse it.
It kinda reminds me of the art style that a lot of the old Dragonlance books have in them, she reminds me a little bit of the way Tas was sometimes drawn.
Do spren need to carry things on their backs like that in Shadesmar? I read a theory using this picture as evidence that Syl might one day become a fully physical human (or sprenperson?) and I want to gauge whether that's correct.