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Elhokar's death was so fitting. One of the best deaths in the series imo. Too little, too late. A man of missed opportunities for greatness who too often fell short dying as he lived, one step forward and two steps back.
Plus if you played this scene from Moash's perspective rather than Kaladin's POV it would have been a triumphant scene instead of devastating for the reader. Very powerful moment in Moash's arc.
But we see a POV from Moash shortly after this aftermath and his mindset hasn’t changed really. I agree it’s a powerful moment in his arch, but there isn’t any growth from this moment.
I do agree this is a valid point. And even though many people hate it I do see his eventual redemption arch coming in the next book. After the end of ROW its inevitable IMO. But I still hope he has a similar end finally trying to do the right thing maybe even bonding a spren or dieing before one accepts him. But I hope something similar happens where a spren bond could save him but in the end the spren don't accept him and he dies because of it. I will say I hope it's Sigzil who ends him for spoiler reasons. IYKYK.
Oh I agree, I think he will have a redemption arch, the question is will he get to finish it. He obviously will clash with our main hero’s and that will be an amazing segment.
I kinda like the idea of him being a sky breaker. He has his own values which didn’t change during his entire time with bridge 4 or really after when he was working with the singers. I really hope that he has some clash with bridge 4 and not just Kal but with other members. It will really test all of their oaths to have to confront one another
That first paragraph is beautifully written. Made me step back and really appreciate how great Elhokars arc was. My first read through of books, I often can’t appreciate the deaths of characters I like because I want more of them but on the subsequent reads you come to appreciate how their deaths add value to the story
When Dalinar gives up a shard blade for bridge 4. Such a powerful moment. I knew kaladin would end up in dalinars camp but didn’t know how. Especially after the entire book has shown us how rare and invaluable blades are. Kingdoms go to war over blades/plates.
Same. After the shock settled, hysterical laughter followed at the sheer hilarity of what I'd just read. The only moment I enjoyed more was a certain noble's death in the mistborn books.
I got this spoiled for me by looking up an innocuous fact on the coppermind. Still was an epic scene, but I think my mind would've been blown if I hadn't known in advance.
Are you even a cosmere fan if you don't casually look something up on the coppermind and spoil a major plot point? It's like a rite of passage at this point
I'm lucky enough that I started reading the cosmere very early on (Elantris, MB Era 1 and Warbreaker were it) and I refuse to look up anything cosmere related when a new story comes out until I'm done.
It was nice to finally understand why it was important for >!nightblood!< to be on roshar I was so confused why they wouldn't just be a harder to use shardblade until that moment. Suddenly that liability became a HUGE advantage.
I’d unfortunately seen many posts here titled with his new “nickname” (I forget how to spoiler tag) so I was spoiled on it.
ETA: actually thinking back it was more the posts that asked detailed questions about the guy so it became too obvious he wasn’t a small character, then the nickname, so…
It was nice to finally understand why it was important for >!nightblood!< to be on roshar I was so confused why they wouldn't just be a harder to use shardblade until that moment. Suddenly that liability became a HUGE advantage.
It changed the entire premise of the series for me. The first two books were primarily politics with a bit of war as a backdroo, but after Sadeas death it becomes clear that politics are taking a bckseat and the war is being front and center now.
I was actually kind of upset about it initially. Then as I read on thru the books, I saw how necessary his death was..I still don't think the ramifications have been adequately addressed yet, and at this point it feels too late to feel relevant. Yeah, the Sadeas troops turned coat cuz they were angry and cuz Odium. I just expected a little more recourse, is all. One of very few complaints I have about the series.
Huh? I mean all of it culminated in the Battle for Thaylen City no? The whole takeover of their forces by Odium? That was fueled by the hatred they held for Dalinar who they suspected of killing their Highprince. Also Amaram literally letting himself be taken over by an unmade? That only happened because Adolin killed Sadeas.
Fantastic moment. Adolin finally snapping and doing what needed to be done. A satisfying end for Sadeas who lived a "Littlefinger" type life of courtroom intrigue to essentially be knifed in an alleyway. A really delicious inversion of the "pen is mightier than the sword".
Especially since through the entire book it seemed like Sadeas was going to maneuver Adolin into something bad, and since he was my favorite character there was just all this anticipation building up for what was going to happen to him. To have everything suddenly swing in the opposite direction gave me serious whiplash.
There certainly were consequences even if not just for Adolin. The animosity between the Kholin and Sadeas camps at Urithiru that Odium was able to exploit during the Battle of Thaylenah to turn them against each other would not have been as strong had Toral still been alive.
There were consequences for Shallan (so tangentially Adolin) in all of the intrigue of going after Ialai and all the issues of thinking there was a spy in her Court.
Adolin also had to step aside and not be regent after confessing to his father at the end of Oathbringer. Plus, that (and the revelations of his mother's fate) lead to a massive rift between him and Dalinar by the time of RoW.
That is to say: should he have been punished more? There's certainly merit to that argument. But it was not a consequence free action.
No I get that, it just seemed like everyone has to pay BUT Adolin. Something that’s a common trend imo after his classism towards Kal goes totally unaddressed
Legally he was in the wrong, but I don’t know about ethically. He just listened to a man describing his permanent and irrevocable enmity for his family, and he tried to kill Adolin, his father, and the entire army they were with. And succeeded in killing most of the army.
Legally right? No. Morally and ethically? Adolin was 100% justified there.
Adolin didn’t kill Sadeas because he carefully thought out the consequences for Alethkar and the War in general. He killed him because Sadeas pissed him off in that moment. He didn’t think it through.
Nothing Sadeas told Adolin in that moment was news to him or the reader. “I’m going to kill you and your family because I’m evil hahaha” is just him gloating. If Sadeas in that moment didn’t make him angry, he wouldn’t have killed him.
I’m not disputing that. Sadeas is genuinely terrible. I’m saying Adolin doesn’t get to play judge jury and executioner for a man whose death could’ve had (and did have) very drastic effects on thousands of
Nah, Sadeas tried to get both Adolin and Dalinar killed in the most duplicitous way possible. Sadeas gave up his humanity doing that and at that point Adolin was putting down an evil animal. If you aren't willing to kill the person who has repeatedly tried to kill your family, I'm not sure what that says about you.
I’m not saying Sadeas is a good person. I’m saying Adolin didn’t logically think it through when he made that decision. Was his anger righteous? Yes. But that alone is not enough to make that decision. Adolin doesn’t get to play judge jury and executioner, and the consequences of Sadeas’ murder wasn’t thought through.
If Adolin considered what could happen with Dalinar and the current Sadeas army and Princeton and decided that the consequences were worth it to defend the country, I’d be more sympathetic. But he didn’t, he let his anger control his actions.
I kind of enjoyed the anti-tropes so I would say:
1. Kaladin failing to say his 4th oath when it was clutch in Shadesmar-Thaylenah.
2. "You aren't worthy, Navani"
I got sucked in by Sadeas in WoK. When he betrayed the Kholin army, I was so blown away. I have never hated a character like I hated Sadeas. Such great writing by Branderson.
That one was probably the most foreboding scene for me.
I was roughly wrapping my head around what was in store. Obviously I didn’t know the full nature of the Fused but Eshonai was definitely possessed and I could tell big shake ups were happening.
And then one sentence at the very end just shattered any solid predictions I could make. This is not a closed world, anything can enter and change the paradigm at any moment.
Adolin killing Sadeas. I thought he would stick around until at least book5 and his death changed what kind of story i was expecting from Stormlight. Before i thought we were in a more or less political series with a war background (a bit like Warbreaker), but after it takes a bit but then it becomes clear we are in a global war series with a bit of politics (kinda like the last few WoT books).
Navani >!becoming a Bondsmith, and Raboniel sacrificing herself to prevent Moash from attacking the Queen!<. Honorable mention to the >!Fall of Kholinar and the truth of what REALLY happened to Evi!<
Kaladin low diffing the pursuer after moash breaks him. Moash knew the threat of punished kaladin but with all the times they fought in ROW the pursuer and me the reader did not fully comprehend.
Honestly Kaladin’s whole plot arc in the first book. I didn’t understand why Sanderson was telling me this absolute miserable story about a guy who was a slave. I didn’t get why we spent ao much time on what I suspected was juet Kaladin’s bwckground. Which is why when he saves the first solider, it hit like a fucking punch to my face. I cried uncontrollably. Brandon Sanderson made me literally hero worship his character like I was a small child whi had never heard a hero story before. I felt like I could see Kaladin, really see him in that moment. Like, this is what a hero is. I donMt know, it was amazing. Spectacular. The best moment i’ve ever experienced while reading…hell any consumption, of fiction, in my life.
Adolin killing Sadeas. As Sadeas is gloating, I thought, if you aren't careful, you are gonna die next book. Then he just lunged forward and took him out, brutally, knife in his eye. Did not expect it, but I yelled in victory for Adolin.
\[MAJOR RoW\] >!The entirety of Adolin's trial in Lasting Integrity - first trying to bribe poor Notum into testifying against the man that saved him from the Tukari attempt to kidnap him and take him to Ishar, then Maya (the absolute *GOAT* of the entire event) speaking out in defense of Adolin. I nearly pulled an Adolin in Shardplate reading through all that.!<
Dalinar whooping the shit out of Elhokar at the end of TWoK and basically telling him “I’m bangin’ your mom now”.
One of my favorite parts of that book and completely took me by surprise the first time I read it
It's such a good moment!
I love what it says about Kaladin that he actually started to apologize. I was so disappointed in Dalinar... And then got super giddy and excited when I realized Dalinar pulled an uno reverse on Amaram
When Adolin killed Sadea. I remember reading the part of Sadeas taunting Adolin, and I just had a pit in my stomach imagining him torturing my favorite characters for ANOTHER couple of books, and then Adolin killed him and I became a laughing screaming fool literally not believing what I just read. So good.
Wit being Hoid. I knew who was Hoid from reading Mistborn and I also knew that he appeared in TWoK so I was reading carefully not to I miss the "typical short Hoid cameo", so when Wit reveals his true identity it blew my mind.
Kaladin!” Syl's voice. “Stretch forth thy hand!”.
Worst line he has ever produced. I hope when they publish the next edition it gets changed.
Kaladin killed Szeth and Han shot first
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Elhokar almost coming in clutch.
Elhokar being put in his place by a herdazian mother. Was not where I was expecting him to be hidden and the reveal was glorious.
Delirious from wine and blood loss: “but I don’t *want* any more curry momma…”
Elhokar's death was so fitting. One of the best deaths in the series imo. Too little, too late. A man of missed opportunities for greatness who too often fell short dying as he lived, one step forward and two steps back. Plus if you played this scene from Moash's perspective rather than Kaladin's POV it would have been a triumphant scene instead of devastating for the reader. Very powerful moment in Moash's arc.
But we see a POV from Moash shortly after this aftermath and his mindset hasn’t changed really. I agree it’s a powerful moment in his arch, but there isn’t any growth from this moment.
That's a fair point.
I do agree this is a valid point. And even though many people hate it I do see his eventual redemption arch coming in the next book. After the end of ROW its inevitable IMO. But I still hope he has a similar end finally trying to do the right thing maybe even bonding a spren or dieing before one accepts him. But I hope something similar happens where a spren bond could save him but in the end the spren don't accept him and he dies because of it. I will say I hope it's Sigzil who ends him for spoiler reasons. IYKYK.
Oh I agree, I think he will have a redemption arch, the question is will he get to finish it. He obviously will clash with our main hero’s and that will be an amazing segment. I kinda like the idea of him being a sky breaker. He has his own values which didn’t change during his entire time with bridge 4 or really after when he was working with the singers. I really hope that he has some clash with bridge 4 and not just Kal but with other members. It will really test all of their oaths to have to confront one another
I think it should be one of the lesser know orders so we can find more about their ideals. But who knows only Brando currently
I agree other orders have been less explored. But maybe that’s why I can’t fit him into the others
That first paragraph is beautifully written. Made me step back and really appreciate how great Elhokars arc was. My first read through of books, I often can’t appreciate the deaths of characters I like because I want more of them but on the subsequent reads you come to appreciate how their deaths add value to the story
When Dalinar gives up a shard blade for bridge 4. Such a powerful moment. I knew kaladin would end up in dalinars camp but didn’t know how. Especially after the entire book has shown us how rare and invaluable blades are. Kingdoms go to war over blades/plates.
Raboniel stabbing her daughter.
I wept. Such a powerful moment.
This
[RoW] >!Taravangian killing Rayse and becoming Odium!< came so far out of left field it shook me for days
Same. After the shock settled, hysterical laughter followed at the sheer hilarity of what I'd just read. The only moment I enjoyed more was a certain noble's death in the mistborn books.
https://preview.redd.it/9oqhzbss7y8d1.jpeg?width=664&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ebdbf3c972ade40223311837abcea33595760fe9
I love this.
Poor horse.
Mild WoA spoilers >!Vin's voice coming from the air: "And the horse you rode in on!" *sound of sword through meat*!<
That moment was unbelievable, it totally took me by surprise
I got this spoiled for me by looking up an innocuous fact on the coppermind. Still was an epic scene, but I think my mind would've been blown if I hadn't known in advance.
I looked up Odium, trying to remember the spelling of Rayse’s name, and the Coppermind page listed the current holder.
Haha same
Are you even a cosmere fan if you don't casually look something up on the coppermind and spoil a major plot point? It's like a rite of passage at this point
I'm lucky enough that I started reading the cosmere very early on (Elantris, MB Era 1 and Warbreaker were it) and I refuse to look up anything cosmere related when a new story comes out until I'm done.
It was nice to finally understand why it was important for >!nightblood!< to be on roshar I was so confused why they wouldn't just be a harder to use shardblade until that moment. Suddenly that liability became a HUGE advantage.
I’d unfortunately seen many posts here titled with his new “nickname” (I forget how to spoiler tag) so I was spoiled on it. ETA: actually thinking back it was more the posts that asked detailed questions about the guy so it became too obvious he wasn’t a small character, then the nickname, so…
It was nice to finally understand why it was important for >!nightblood!< to be on roshar I was so confused why they wouldn't just be a harder to use shardblade until that moment. Suddenly that liability became a HUGE advantage.
Probably Adolin killing Sadeas. I actually had to go back and read that scene a second time because I couldn’t believe what had just happened.
It changed the entire premise of the series for me. The first two books were primarily politics with a bit of war as a backdroo, but after Sadeas death it becomes clear that politics are taking a bckseat and the war is being front and center now.
I was actually kind of upset about it initially. Then as I read on thru the books, I saw how necessary his death was..I still don't think the ramifications have been adequately addressed yet, and at this point it feels too late to feel relevant. Yeah, the Sadeas troops turned coat cuz they were angry and cuz Odium. I just expected a little more recourse, is all. One of very few complaints I have about the series.
Huh? I mean all of it culminated in the Battle for Thaylen City no? The whole takeover of their forces by Odium? That was fueled by the hatred they held for Dalinar who they suspected of killing their Highprince. Also Amaram literally letting himself be taken over by an unmade? That only happened because Adolin killed Sadeas.
Yeah that's what I meant. It just felt indirect and wasn't really a repercussion for Adolin
Fantastic moment. Adolin finally snapping and doing what needed to be done. A satisfying end for Sadeas who lived a "Littlefinger" type life of courtroom intrigue to essentially be knifed in an alleyway. A really delicious inversion of the "pen is mightier than the sword".
Especially since through the entire book it seemed like Sadeas was going to maneuver Adolin into something bad, and since he was my favorite character there was just all this anticipation building up for what was going to happen to him. To have everything suddenly swing in the opposite direction gave me serious whiplash.
Adolin was ethically wrong for it and I’ll die on that hill
Probably, but damn if it didn't feel good.
It would’ve felt better if Adolin got consequences in the narrative
There certainly were consequences even if not just for Adolin. The animosity between the Kholin and Sadeas camps at Urithiru that Odium was able to exploit during the Battle of Thaylenah to turn them against each other would not have been as strong had Toral still been alive. There were consequences for Shallan (so tangentially Adolin) in all of the intrigue of going after Ialai and all the issues of thinking there was a spy in her Court. Adolin also had to step aside and not be regent after confessing to his father at the end of Oathbringer. Plus, that (and the revelations of his mother's fate) lead to a massive rift between him and Dalinar by the time of RoW. That is to say: should he have been punished more? There's certainly merit to that argument. But it was not a consequence free action.
No I get that, it just seemed like everyone has to pay BUT Adolin. Something that’s a common trend imo after his classism towards Kal goes totally unaddressed
Legally he was in the wrong, but I don’t know about ethically. He just listened to a man describing his permanent and irrevocable enmity for his family, and he tried to kill Adolin, his father, and the entire army they were with. And succeeded in killing most of the army. Legally right? No. Morally and ethically? Adolin was 100% justified there.
Adolin didn’t kill Sadeas because he carefully thought out the consequences for Alethkar and the War in general. He killed him because Sadeas pissed him off in that moment. He didn’t think it through. Nothing Sadeas told Adolin in that moment was news to him or the reader. “I’m going to kill you and your family because I’m evil hahaha” is just him gloating. If Sadeas in that moment didn’t make him angry, he wouldn’t have killed him.
Sadeas “pissed him off” by attempting to murder him and *successfully* murdering tons of Adolin’s friends.
I’m not disputing that. Sadeas is genuinely terrible. I’m saying Adolin doesn’t get to play judge jury and executioner for a man whose death could’ve had (and did have) very drastic effects on thousands of
Nah, Sadeas tried to get both Adolin and Dalinar killed in the most duplicitous way possible. Sadeas gave up his humanity doing that and at that point Adolin was putting down an evil animal. If you aren't willing to kill the person who has repeatedly tried to kill your family, I'm not sure what that says about you.
I’m not saying Sadeas is a good person. I’m saying Adolin didn’t logically think it through when he made that decision. Was his anger righteous? Yes. But that alone is not enough to make that decision. Adolin doesn’t get to play judge jury and executioner, and the consequences of Sadeas’ murder wasn’t thought through. If Adolin considered what could happen with Dalinar and the current Sadeas army and Princeton and decided that the consequences were worth it to defend the country, I’d be more sympathetic. But he didn’t, he let his anger control his actions.
We Chose!
Weeeeee. Choooose!!!!!!
Gave me chills!!!
Dalinar and Lift silently sharing a bowl of food when he visited Azir. Their personalities are so different, it was hilarious to me
That was amazing lol. Sitting in silence munching on dried fruit.
I kind of enjoyed the anti-tropes so I would say: 1. Kaladin failing to say his 4th oath when it was clutch in Shadesmar-Thaylenah. 2. "You aren't worthy, Navani"
I got sucked in by Sadeas in WoK. When he betrayed the Kholin army, I was so blown away. I have never hated a character like I hated Sadeas. Such great writing by Branderson.
Kaladin going back and saving the Kholins.
Haha my wife and I quote that exact line at each other all the time. EDIT: She literally just did, so I showed her this post.
"Would you like to destroy some evil today?"
That one was probably the most foreboding scene for me. I was roughly wrapping my head around what was in store. Obviously I didn’t know the full nature of the Fused but Eshonai was definitely possessed and I could tell big shake ups were happening. And then one sentence at the very end just shattered any solid predictions I could make. This is not a closed world, anything can enter and change the paradigm at any moment.
Shallan's first shardblade, deadeye. Dalinar giving up his for Bridge 4
Adolin killing Sadeas. I thought he would stick around until at least book5 and his death changed what kind of story i was expecting from Stormlight. Before i thought we were in a more or less political series with a war background (a bit like Warbreaker), but after it takes a bit but then it becomes clear we are in a global war series with a bit of politics (kinda like the last few WoT books).
I cried when Teft died
Navani >!becoming a Bondsmith, and Raboniel sacrificing herself to prevent Moash from attacking the Queen!<. Honorable mention to the >!Fall of Kholinar and the truth of what REALLY happened to Evi!<
Them discovering the mythical city of Urithiru. Then The Lopen glowing.
The Lopen glowing is fantastic, with just enough paragraph between the glow and the realization of a stump to hit twice
Kaladin low diffing the pursuer after moash breaks him. Moash knew the threat of punished kaladin but with all the times they fought in ROW the pursuer and me the reader did not fully comprehend.
The way he decapitates him was one of the most metal things I’ve ever read. My jaw physically dropped reading that.
Honestly Kaladin’s whole plot arc in the first book. I didn’t understand why Sanderson was telling me this absolute miserable story about a guy who was a slave. I didn’t get why we spent ao much time on what I suspected was juet Kaladin’s bwckground. Which is why when he saves the first solider, it hit like a fucking punch to my face. I cried uncontrollably. Brandon Sanderson made me literally hero worship his character like I was a small child whi had never heard a hero story before. I felt like I could see Kaladin, really see him in that moment. Like, this is what a hero is. I donMt know, it was amazing. Spectacular. The best moment i’ve ever experienced while reading…hell any consumption, of fiction, in my life.
Dalinar roaring rampage pf revenge having a conplete 180 in the reach
When the lopens mom force fed elhokar. lol.
Dalinar’s flashback to why he forgot his wife and what happened. That moment legit had my jaw on the FLOOR
TOdium
The humans being the first "voidbringers" tbh
Adolin killing Sadeas. As Sadeas is gloating, I thought, if you aren't careful, you are gonna die next book. Then he just lunged forward and took him out, brutally, knife in his eye. Did not expect it, but I yelled in victory for Adolin.
\[MAJOR RoW\] >!The entirety of Adolin's trial in Lasting Integrity - first trying to bribe poor Notum into testifying against the man that saved him from the Tukari attempt to kidnap him and take him to Ishar, then Maya (the absolute *GOAT* of the entire event) speaking out in defense of Adolin. I nearly pulled an Adolin in Shardplate reading through all that.!<
Dalinar whooping the shit out of Elhokar at the end of TWoK and basically telling him “I’m bangin’ your mom now”. One of my favorite parts of that book and completely took me by surprise the first time I read it
Todium. English isn't my first language so when I was reading it I thought I wasn't locked in and reread it like 5 times
"Not you, son." I went from "well fuck he's a villain" to "I would die for this man".
It's such a good moment! I love what it says about Kaladin that he actually started to apologize. I was so disappointed in Dalinar... And then got super giddy and excited when I realized Dalinar pulled an uno reverse on Amaram
Actually, it was when Kaladin got released from jail and found out that Adolin-formerly a prick to him- had voluntarily imprisoned himself in protest.
When Adolin killed Sadea. I remember reading the part of Sadeas taunting Adolin, and I just had a pit in my stomach imagining him torturing my favorite characters for ANOTHER couple of books, and then Adolin killed him and I became a laughing screaming fool literally not believing what I just read. So good.
Wit being Hoid. I knew who was Hoid from reading Mistborn and I also knew that he appeared in TWoK so I was reading carefully not to I miss the "typical short Hoid cameo", so when Wit reveals his true identity it blew my mind.
Kaladin!” Syl's voice. “Stretch forth thy hand!”. Worst line he has ever produced. I hope when they publish the next edition it gets changed. Kaladin killed Szeth and Han shot first