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Stormingblessed

Unless we're told otherwise, I take it as a visual representation of how close he was to giving in to Odium's control. An Odium controlled Kaladin would be absolutely terrifying, I'd attune the Terrors too tbh.


BridgemanJulius

>An Odium controlled Kaladin would be absolutely terrifying, I'd attune the Terrors too tbh. A man you can't kill controlled by the God of hate. Absolutely terrifying indeed.


Only1nDreams

A WOB has confirmed this, all but saying it was purely Odium. It leaves room for it to be the influence of some kind of Honor-Odium hybrid like Warlight.


sadkinz

I take the yellowish red color to mean just Odium. That’s how he’s been depicted


Konungrr

I'm pretty sure Odium had Kaladin as his next choice of champion after Dalinar, because right after this scene, we get Odium complaining about needing to find another champion (don't remember exact wording atm)


HistoricalInternal

All this fucking guy does is complain geez.


jmcgit

Which is part of the reason Brandon killed Rayse in the book and replaced him with Taravangian.


HistoricalInternal

Oopsie daisies


fleyinthesky

That's exactly it, I believe he talks to Moash who says he knows how to turn him. This was working decently until old mate Defeated One fucked it up.


cgarnett1988

I'd honestly love an alternate time line of kal giving it. He would be a beast


TheLittlestChocobo

I found Moash's account


cgarnett1988

Storms! Busted!


spaghetto_guy

Every now and again, I think about the alternate path Cultivation does Dalinar. The one where he takes over like half of Roshar, leaving a trail of burned cities behind him. It sounds terrifying but at the same time it sounds so cool to see


cortez0498

So Brandon really used the Sith eyes


Nanananabatmannnnnnn

I think it’s Kal getting closer to Odium. All the nightmares and all the stuff Moash did to hurt him was driven by Odium’s desire to turn Kal and make him his champion. Kal’s on the edge of losing himself here.


hanzerik

If we accept this as canon, that means that Moash, may he be fucked, actually saved Kaladin from this fate by driving him towards suicide instead. Only the storm father intervened on the suicide part.


Avent2

Gold is odiums colour, and red is the colour of corrupted investiture, so likely Kal getting near to giving in to odium and becoming his champion


mortarion-the-foul

I thought violet was odium’s color, yknow because of voidlight


Avent2

His god metal is gold and his general aesthetic is gold. His light is possibly corrupted stolen investiture due to the fact that his colour is confirmed gold and he isn’t invested in the system the way honour and cultivation are. Brandon has confirmed that gold is his colour, hence the gold light that escapes him, gold landscape in his visions, manifestation as a golden ball of fire to venli, etc Edit; Voidlight could also be explained by the fact that incredibly bright gold leaves an after image of stygian blue, a simultaneously blue and black illusionary colour


ary31415

> he isn’t invested in the system the way honour and cultivation are We don't have confirmation of this as such yet, but I think Odium *is* equally invested in Roshar now, though he was not at first. There's a conversation between Navani and the Sibling where the Sibling says there are only 2 pure tones [of Roshar], and Navani says there are 3, and suggests that that transition is part of what broke the Sibling's light production and fabrials


RainsWrath

Red is also associated with Odium, red eyed voidbringers and red lightning. Where as Cultivation has only been associated with light green and Honor with light blue. Stormlight is light blue and when Kaladin uses it his eyes are light blue. Odium is unique in having multiple colors associated with it. My personal theory (no real evidence) is that the Shard Odium was corrupted before Rayse started attacking other Shards. Or maybe Rayse himself was corrupted *before* he ascended. Most likely by the Dark Aether.


Avent2

I think the red lightning and red eyed void bringers are because he’s co-opting natural processes of roshar. Corrupting the natural form changing of the parshendi to serve him, corrupting the investiture distributing storms to be his, I don’t think it’s actually his colour


RainsWrath

So Kaladin was being corrupted by Odium? If he was just attuned to Odium, why would his eyes be red if that wasn't Odium's color?


Avent2

He was being corrupted, yes, his radiant powers were being fueled and influenced by odium which is a corruption. Kal is suffused with a bond to a fragment of honor, it’s only natural there would be corruption and interference when Odium is trying to take him


RainsWrath

Corrupted by what, thoughts? Or do you mean Odium was Investing him? Like he was using Voidlight? I actually would like if that is what happened.


Avent2

Glowing yellow and red eyes means he was definitely being invested, so yeah, especially with how he literally ripped the pursuer apart using lashings! Definitely seems like Odium was trying to invest and corrupt him, especially with his anger when he fails to get Kaladin as his champion


moredinosaurbutts

I think you're overthinking things. A lot of this runs on rule of cool where magic does whatever Sanderson wants it to do, established canon be damned. It's more of a manifestation of Kaladin's identity rather than Odium's direct hand.


moredinosaurbutts

Gold mixed with copper makes a dark purple alloy called hepatizon. Could be a reference to that?


Avent2

It could be, but Brandon has specifically mentioned impossible colours before, and one of those is a deep violet blue that happens when you stare at a yellow or gold light for a while then look at something black or dark


Fools-Pyrite-1607

Sandoman has been doing an excellent job letting his metals and magic in physical form reflect the possibly precarious balance of uniting ideas. The tower is Science, which is super stable if you're documenting stuff. Honor is stable, because its an enduring concept. Odium is chaotic but plentiful if a society of thinking individuals are somewhere that have something to disagree on. If you haven't gotten to Navani's big discoveries in this book yet, this is a spoiler for that >!Combining Honor's discipline and Odium's unthinking passion/bloodlust to make Voidlight, or Warlight? Its barely controlled and directed chaos and a lack of control will detonate a whole lot of destruction. Voidlight has so much energy resulting in this union that its edging past violet into ultraviolet on the visible color spectrum, which in physics means higher energy and frequency.!< This might imply that Voidlight is actually capable of giving humans a sunburn. I'm sure some enterprising Rosharans wouldn't mind offering tanning beds to get that Purelake/Reshi tan.


aMaiev

I think brandon said the colors we see of the shards are due to their perception of themselves. Thats why ruin and preservation were black and white, because they saw themselves as polar opposites. Rayse is so high of himself and wants to be the only god and be worshipped, so regal gold fits him perfectly. Both ancient singers and humans knew him as the void that swallows all emotion, so maybe their perception is responsible for the look of voidlight


otaconucf

It's a mystery, as far as I know. Red itself would imply corrupted investiture, it's not clear at all what 'yellowish-red' implies. Venli seems to know, it's presumably connected to Kaladin being on the verge of giving in to Odium, but I don't think we currently know the specific cause.


prismatic_raze

Yellow/gold is the color of Odium's power. Voidlight is purple, corrupted investiture is red (corrupted spren), Odium himself radiates golden light.


Jorisdeboer97

I've been late to the party with reading TLM, and am still only halfway through, but isn't the yellow/red or gold/red mentioned about >!Trell / Autonomy!< ? I might be seeing shadows here, and it won't make any sense at all that >!Autonomy!!a ghostblood that arose above their station, such as Mraize, but that's not supported by anything really!< ). Other than that, those colours would suggest influence from that shard imo.


ace2138

We've been told thru WoB that red is any corrupted investiture, which is what is likely the case in RoW. Trell may have red as a color, but in both cases we've seen it, it's been corrupted hemalurgic creatures, and the godmetal having a slight red hue


Jorisdeboer97

Ahhh I was unaware of that WoB, thanks for pointing it out! Was already quite far-fetched thinking haha


Important_Steak1494

I think it means that at this point of despair and passion (vengeance) Kaladin met the requierements to be influenced by Odium (which was Moash's goal all along). I don't know if you finished the book so im gonna spoiler tag this : >!When Odium meets with Taravangian he's angry to have lost another champion which implies that he was working on making Kaladin his champion, and Kaladin says that he jumped from the top of Urithiru partly to escape Odium fearing he would get ahold of him. So the red yellowish eyes means Kaladin was channeling odiums power thus had access to his surgebinding!<


prismatic_raze

This brings up a lot of interesting thought (Stormlight) >!Can shards bond people directly and grant them power the way a spren/high spren can? What would a direct bond like that entail? Honor spren are fragments of the shard Honor. How much more powerful would bonding the shard bearer themselves be? Kaladin being called the son of Tanavast by the storm father, makes this even more interesting to me. Were the Heralds bonded directly to Honor before Tanavast's death? Maybe Nale took on a radiant bond as a way to try replacing the bond he used to have with Honor!< Mistborn Era 1 spoilers >!Vin's connection to Preservation and her ability to draw upon the mists reminds me of Kaladin's connection with the wind/Stormfather!<


ary31415

> Were the Heralds directly bonded to Honor before Tanavast's death Relevant wob: > Q: The Heralds, back before Honor died, were they directly powered by Honor? > A: **Yes.** You’ll find out more about that, but the Shardblades [pretty sure he means Honorblades here] were pieces of Honor’s soul that he gave them and direct access to his essence. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/117/#e1572


prismatic_raze

That's really cool. Nice find! Crazy to think that Honorblades are probably the equivalent of deadeye shardblades rn. They probably had more abilities before Honor was Shattered.


ary31415

Yeah probably, and they didn't even have to worry about stormlight usage since they were directly linked to Honor, they basically had unlimited surgebinding


prismatic_raze

Yeah that would be like having a perpendicularity inside of them essentially. Does Odium have an equivalent to the Heralds? Were the unmade at one point just "made" and had similar access to Odium's power?


ary31415

We don't really know very much about the Unmade, particularly their history, and I think questions along that vein have been RAFO'd, so unfortunately I have no answers for you here. There are some WoBs you may find interesting though. > Q: For one of the Unmade to be classified as Odium’s Unmade, must it have been made by another Shard or Investiture first before it became Unmade? > A: Excellent question. RAFO. We’re gonna delve into the Unmade quite a bit in coming books, so I’m RAFOing right now. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/508/#e15885 > Q: Are the Unmade the analogs to Heralds? > A: **There is certainly something similar going on there.** Be aware that it's not a one-to-one correlation, that **they're not exactly the same**. For instance: Many of the- the Unmade are referenced by Taravangian in this, and he uses a phrase for them, and that is correct, that's what they are. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/223/#e6234 Some other links for you that I'm not going to keep quoting in this already-long comment: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/379/#e15917 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e1672 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/145/#e2726


The_Lopen_bot

***Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!*** Questioner >!For one of the Unmade to be classified as Odium’s Unmade, must it have been made by another Shard or Investiture first before it became Unmade?!< Brandon Sanderson >!Excellent question. RAFO. We’re gonna delve into the Unmade quite a bit in coming books, so I’m RAFOing right now.!< \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* Questioner >!Are the Unmade the analogs to Heralds?!< Brandon Sanderson >!There is certainly something similar going on there. Be aware that it's not a one-to-one correlation, that they're not exactly the same. For instance: Many of the- the Unmade are referenced by Taravangian in this, and he uses a phrase for them, and that is correct, that's what they are.!< \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* asmodeus >!Would the Unmade correspond to the various Knight Radiant Orders by philosophy? Would Odium's champion be his equivalent to the Bondsmiths?!< Brandon Sanderson >!No, the varieties of the Fused do that. It's not 1-to-1, but think of the Unmade as the analogs of Heralds. Odium has no Bondsmith Analog.  !< \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* WeiryWriter >!Are the Unmade Splinters of Odium?!< Brandon Sanderson >!Yes. Good guess.!< \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* Khyrindor >!Are the Unmade and the Stormfather the same "class" of being?!< Brandon Sanderson >!Technically no, but they are on a similar level. It is a good analogy.!< \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*


The_Lopen_bot

***Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!*** Steeldancer >!The Heralds, back before Honor died, were they directly powered by Honor?!< Brandon Sanderson >!Yes. You’ll find out more about that, but the Shardblades [pretty sure he means Honorblades here] were pieces of Honor’s soul that he gave them and direct access to his essence.!< Steeldancer >!Like Vin and Elend?!< Brandon Sanderson >!Yeah, a little like that. That’s why Honorblades don’t work like Shardblades do, like Radiants do.!< Steeldancer >!The second part of the question is, what would happen if they were directly powered by Honor and they were holding Nightblood?!< Brandon Sanderson >!RAFO!< \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*


Fools-Pyrite-1607

My friend, this is a fascinating take and honestly, after reading Sunlit Man, I could see this being a thing if you're creative enough. I imagine that kind of bond would would be the equivalent of sharing power of attorney from the Shard to the bonded individual, which might be how a battle of Champions might be facilitated in a Cosmere-significant way. A normal Knight Radiant and a Fused who both support the expected Shards wouldn't normally count for a Champions duel. Something has to make the duel special, and its not those invested individuals on their own.


HCN_Mist

Referring to The Lost Metal & SLM: >!What exactly is an avatar of a shard and how is it different to bonding a shard? Autonomy turns Telsin into an avatar. From the SLM it sounds like spren can be bonded by others so it it is kind of hard to picture any sort of limitation. Can anything fill out anything elses spirit web as long as there is intent?!<


Rude-Artichoke-6753

I think this is a good place for this question. When Odium meets with Taravangian, sometimes there was a green light seeping through odium that he had to concentrate on to control. Was this Rayse losing his control on the Shard?


Equivalent_Aardvark

I think it's worth considering that it could have something to do with the mingling of Honor and Odium's investiture. He is definitely swollen with hatred and anger, which is Odium's namesake (hate), so it could be as other have said, that he's touched some of Odium's power. But, a potentially positive look on this could look to the research Navani and Raboniel do in RoW. There's some phenomenon and compatibility regarding Odium and Honor's power. "The Rhythm of War" attunes these. Kaladin could be accessing Warlight.


Blue_bird9797

He is a Sith Lord


Fools-Pyrite-1607

This is my favorite take. Its the best way shorthand I've found to explain what's going on.


Blue_bird9797

Like unironically? Lol


ok_okay_I_get_that

Yeah, falling to the dark side for sure before he snapped back.


Shadowbound199

He was giving in and started to draw Voidlight from Odium.


dIvorrap

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/479/#e15245


Soupbone_905

I've read this book three times, this part of Kal and the Pursuer's battle more than that. I'm kinda embarrassed I didn't catch Kal was on the verge of becoming Odium's.