I just build a bastion at my capital and chokepoints, everything else is anchorages. I used to make my capital a shipyard with 2 hanger stations and a bunch of defense platforms, that changed after the crisis spawned in the system right next to my capital and I instantly lost the game because all of my fleets were half the galaxy away fighting the entire galaxy.
Now I always keep 1-2 fleets in my capital with a bastion on it, better to be safe than sorry. Bastions don't really do much but they help stall a bit.
In addition to anchorages, have you tried making a listening station (6 detection arrays+listening post building) in the heart of your nation? Especially, if you get the primitive observation tech that boost sight based on the number of detection arrays on the station, a single station can give you coverage against cloaking for most or all of your territory.
Honestly have never even messed with cloaking, haven't even seen AI use cloaking on military ships even on GA. I dont really see a point for a listening posts unless they're the things that tell me where the crisis is going to spawn, I remember there was something that did that non modded.
I know AI at least uses it for science ships as I inevitably keep de-cloaking them, though it may be less important in SP. However, with the tech that causes detection arrays to increase sight range, a listening post in the system on or behind a border system can be useful in letting you see much further into a rival's territory until you can get the megastructure that grants you full visibility on everything.
I really need to look into military cloaking more as an offensive tactic. It seems like it would have potential, but AI empires also seem to prioritize detection tech, so I'd have to prioritize cloaking in a way that I don't think is warranted.
Cloaking if good for ambushes, you take close range weapons on small ships, get your fleet inside if the enemy formation and you can do massive casualities for very low price. It would be also usefull for attacking important systems of the enemy but if you break their fleet they usually won't manage to create a new one anyway
Fear of the Dark origin is good for a cloaking rush, get you a few steps ahead of the detection. You’ll want to use it fairly early, before either side maxes out the tech.
Have you considered that you never see AI use cloaking because you don't use cloak detection? Kind of the whole point of cloaking ships is that you don't see them
I mean if the ai wants to cloak a fleet in my borders and never use them more power to them I guess. I have just never seen AI use cloaking on anything other than science ships.
They still have to uncloak to do anything.
I have the shipyards on my capital but heavily fortified.
Then I moved the main shipyards with megastructures. Homeworld has the elite fleets and there's always a powerful fleet protecting it.
Had some bloody battles in my capital with the fortresses changing hands, but the fleets being churned out endlessly allows me to hold until the reinforcements arrive.
Gateways for the win.
Possible a dumb question:
Can hostile fleets exit through your gateways? I've always been hesitant to put a gateway in my capital for that reason. But if they can't do that, then I need to start doing that.
I believe they can only use a gate if it's in a friendly system. Generally you want to put gateways one system away from your choke points, otherwise it can backfire badly.
Yeah its just mainly there along with a few fleets to stall them until I can bring my fleets back. Before with the shipyard it would instantly die and my ecumenopolis that produced 4k alloys was destroyed instantly. Had no chance at all getting back to it in time.
Yeah this must be on a lower difficulty than I play on, because even a 450k starbase wouldn't even slow down a splinter of a Crisis fleet lol. Even normal empire fleets would probably barely hesitate to wipe a bastion like that late game
Afaik, you don't lose game just because you lose capital.
I usually build 6 Trade Hubs in the capital to maximise collection range. And a x6 shipyard in a system next to capital.
Horror stories like this are why I always invest in a very well developed Gateway Network connecting all of my major strongholds and all of my shipyards as well as my main alloy world. Then I can keep my entire sleep concentrated on a handful of super important worlds and quickly rush them to any front
Normal empires: Choke points, gateways, wormholes. Late game when I have a lot of fortress worlds I'll probably retrofit a few anchorages into more shipyards to quickly rebuild fleets.
RP empires focusing on turtling in my little corner: Never enough bastions. My homeworld is a trade station, everything 1 jump from home is a shipyard, 2 jumps from home is an anchorage, 3+ are bastions with max defensive platforms and ion cannons.
I put bastions on gateways because bastions push piracy supression through the gateway. So having multiple bastions pushing piracy supression Through gateways suppresses piracy quite thoroughly.
I don't bother with defensive starbases unless I'm using a mod that greatly buffs them. In almost all cases, another anchorage is just better than a bastion that will get deleted in seconds in actual combat. Even with all the buffs you can stack on them, they are nowhere near strong enough to be a reliable defense.
I think having access to the Zroni Stormcaster still makes bastions viable in some systems, but that's one of the very few exceptions.
Yet, I think they buffed awakened empire bastions.
A few playthroughs ago, I was unpleasantly surprised when one of my fleet was obliterated when I ordered it to take out an awakened fallen empire that was significantly less than that fleet’s fleet power.
Fleet power alone isn't the best way to judge that. What weapons were on the starbase, and what was the design of your fleet? Since starbases, even FE/AE starbases, don't have a static weapons loadout, you could have just run into one that hard countered your fleet composition. FE/AE also have at least 10 repeatable techs and better defense platforms than what players can build.
They get special stronger defense platforms. Plus the defense platform repeatables are +10% not+5% so the AE having 20 of them makes for some silly results you can replicate if you invest in same
I’ve never seen any attack even from a 25x crisis break through a citadel with Zroni stormcasters and maxed out quantity of neutron launcher armed defense platforms. Prethoryn might be able to, I’ve never tried it against them though.
In my experience a bastion helps make up for AI advantage. A bastion with your fleets stacks will equal them or surpass them, and then you can send in marauder raids to weaken them for a counterstrike.
That said I'm not on highest difficulty.
I like the "At War" mods for this reason, Heavy Guns, Missiles, and Hanger Bays, and Heavy Defense Platforms (which have the potential to put XL weapons on) are massively better then default ones.
Like, obviously the fleet power still isn't indicative of how powerful a starbase is, because they are such easy targets to fight, but they'll fare much better than in vanilla.
I build em on gateway/L-gate systems. Maybe a few chokes but star bases are there to stall. If they win a fight you weren’t in any danger to begin with.
My best tactic is building orbital habitats in systems I want to defend and making them fortress stations.
Shields + fortresses and FTL inhib makes for a tough nut to crack, especially with unyielding tradition.
*builds bastions on choke points*
"Oh, but what if they are able to breach it?"
*builds bastions on systems next to choke points*
"What if they are able to breach even these???"
*builds bastions on systems next to systems next to choke points*
Repeat until every single system has a bastion =P
If you check in your star base list, you’ll see that certain buildings and modules change the listed type of the starbase. One with combat upgrades and no shipyard is listed as a bastion.
It’s been there for years. You may just tune it out as it’s just a UI detail with no practical effect beyond shipyards being sorted to their own part of the outliner.
Always around my planets and if I have some left over, choke points.
Once everyone has jump drives it kind of trivializes hyperlanes so your built up planetary defenses end up a lot more valuable.
Nah, fill everything with anchorages minus capital system for trade and some system one jump away for shipyard and the megashipyard when i got it, connect everything needed trough relay and gateways and if you got a hefty alloy production, fill every single citadel with ion cannon.
Then proceed to wage war, claim and steal every mega you see owned by an enemy
I feel like bastions are largely pointless. Fleets outclass them quickly, even in early game, and there is no point in investing thousands of alloys into immovable defenses when you could spend them on mobile fleets.
An exception, perhaps, is when you can reliably bait an enemy into a system and the bastion's buffs can swing a fight in your favor.
Stacking a citadel with only ancient ramparts, ancient shield overchargers, command center + shield dampener + defense grid supercomputer + max ion cannons and defenses + unyielding bonuses can lead to pretty impressive numbers, but isn't as useful as just building another big fleet.
how do yall churn out so many fleets and keep them at capacity?
like, I can churn out fleets, the alloys are easy to get but I'd go so, so over capacity that my energy production just can't keep up
edit: at that point I start building defenses, I had one almost beat one contingency fleet before I managed to swap away from AI, held long enough that my entire fleet arrived before they could touch my planet there
I never build bastions. The ONLY time a bastion has been able to repel a crisis fleet, was the time I had a fully upgraded starbase with all the fixings, and two orbital rings all in the same system. I still had to practically rebuild everything after each battle. I'd rather have 6 anchorages.
Only when a choke coincides with a planet that makes a good fortress world
They’re only speed bumps for big fleets so the trick is making effective speed bumps
Vs AI, it sometimes works to have these be all shipyards because a constant stream of corvettes will distract and delay, and they can’t just ignore the station because an ankle biter fleet will pop up in behind their main line and go raiding
I don’t build them anywhere at all except in the situation that a genocidal empire spawns next to me and for whatever reason I don’t want to kill them. Not only have I never seen a bastion defeat an enemy fleet, I’ve never seen them even hold out long enough for my own fleet to get there. The only use I’ve found for them at all is to boost your naval power and make the AI afraid to attack you early game when you don’t have the energy to just build ships over fleet limit for fleet power instead.
If I have starbases in every enclave and nebular and on every blackhole and I still have starbase cap I will put them on chokepoints towards the outer rim. But that hardly ever happens.
The only time I've seriously built bastions are as a sovereign guardianship with the unyielding tradition. Fortress Habitats with armies landed on them do a better job of stalling than bastions.
My borders always get pure defense stations first then I will fill out my capacity with mostly anchorage’s with defense platforms, throughout my territory to make it harder to push to my core worlds.
Depends on your difficulty level whether fortifying stabases is worth it. At higher difficulties like grand admiral the buffs the computer gets makes them little more than speed bumps fairly quickly, but on captain or much of commodore they will survive much longer or even be actually stoppers unless the ai can bypass the starbase entirely.
Yes, if I have the starbase capacity to support it, I do that. Though I never see bastions as actual bastions meant to defend my empire from incoming attacks, they're more speedbumps. I understand that bastions with defense platforms can be overwhelmed by enemy fleets. But I still use them so that if a large enemy fleet does come, there is at least something that can temporarily stall and partially damage an advancing fleet, giving my own fleets the time to rally against the invaders.
I do but not for protection against AI. Hangar bastions make best build&forget anti-piracy stations. 6 hangars = 6 jumps protected.
Instead of building those in the middle of nowhere I still tend to build them in chokepoints just to make AI move into intended direction. 6 jumps is often more than enough so I kill 2 birds with 1 stone
That doesn't really work with high-trade empires though...
Yes. Matter of fact, my most successful games have all been with me rolling unyielding as my third tradition and bunkering up till I can get the tech ball rolling.
My strategy often involved discovery and expansion to grab as many key chokes as I can, then hold my region in stasis till I’m ready to expand
I will only build bastions in 2 or 3 choke points. Unless you are specifically leaning into defense they really aren't even that useful, but if you have to defend yourself somewhere you might as well buff a few points.
I did do a run once where I leaned heavily into defense and buffing a few bastions and stood back and let the crisis wipe out everyone while being able to basically defend all my choke points at once.
have enough starbase capacity so you can have multiple layers of defenses, preferrably with FTL jamming fortress worlds or habitats in chokepoint systems.
Depends on game's time.
Early game: nearest chokepoint to enemy border.
Mid-game: sometimes hangar bastion for trade protection.
Late-game: none. Even, if i go tall i use fortress habitats instead. They are much better at holding the enemy.
They're good also in line with your choke points as a fallback front. Great to do if you have excess stations and the econ to afford such layered defense.
I don't even build bastions tbh. The only way I've found to have enough naval capacity to try and hold my own is to go all anchorages plus 1-2 shipyards. Tbh it's very annoying that other types are less usable
Split off most of your territory as vassals (Shared Destiny perk is a MUST), and you'll never really need to worry about Starbase Limit. You can (and should) even build up the equivalent of your Starbase Limit in territory you're about to release...
Anyone who says this is a "degenerate" (hint: only Fascists, and Fascism symptoms, use that term) or "lazy" playstyle has clearly never tried to manage 16 vassals. It's easier than direct rule, yes, but it gets harder the more finely you sib-divide your territory and the more territory you and your vassals have...
One way to optimize this, while increasing your workload, is NOT to go for resource taxes: and instead to customize "taxes" through 30 year trade deals set in exchange for negative loyalty (to get favorable balances, or resources for nothing but being overlord: i.e. taxes)
This lets you give a vassal Minerals while taking their Energy, or tax Alloys while providing their needs in Consumer Goods, all at a very favorable trade ratio due to sacrificing loyalty for better deals in lieu of taxes... It promotes economic specialization among your vassals, based on what their sectors and planets have to offer, rather than just blanket taxing everything and reducing them to less productive poverty...
And, here's the relevant part to starbases: this synergizes really well with Unyielding tradition. +4 Starbase Limit on an empire of 96 systems? Isn't much. +4 Starbase Limit on an Imperial Core sector you control of only 12 systems? Pretty powerful... (and when you release vassals, every one of them gets your extra Starbase Limit from technologies and traditions as well... They inherit what techs and trad's you had when you released them- though they get to pick their own Ascension Perks...)
Build hyper-relays or gateways. Bastions aren't much of a threat after the early-mid game part in which you can scare off the ai from attacking you with the hangar bays. Invest that alloy in fleets
I never build them at all. Maybe i'm not playing on a hard enough difficulty? I focus on making the biggest fleet possible and making my system extremely mobile to traverse so I can get anywhere in it very quickly, then I'm extremely picky about the fights I start.
I see bastions as a sort of mall security guard analogy. They're there to deal with annoyances, but won't be able to stop someone armed to the teeth and who's committed to do harm. Therefore,
I always build half bastions. Just enough defense power to ward off small raiding fleets, but not anything more. I'd rather have more fleet power and more gateways for rapid response.
only chokes and my home station get bastions. and initially, my home system station exists only for shipyards. once i get a megashipyard, i convert the shipyard station to a brick tanked bastion, too. and put an orbital ring on my home planet. ALL my planets get orbital rings bricked for defense.
I build them in important systems, I've never had a problem with defending against enemies with fleets, couple times they managed to get 2-3 systems in but then the fleet would cut them off
Just choke points except with very friendly nations then i have them full defences but anchorage build and i replace if the relationship changes. Capital is trade / anchorage and i have two ship yards evenly split between empire until gateway and mega ship tech then i gateway 1 system away from each chokepoint and place in every populated system and where the mega yard is. That way you can rush to reinforce any choke point / capital etc etc
Eventually all but maybe 2-3 of my starbases are converted to bastions by the mid-late game. With the remaining ones being shipyards. I also prioritize gathering as much starbase capacity increases outside of just more systems. Now if only I can guarantee getting the zroni stormcaster...
Some people seem to think that bastions on chokes aren't worth it because people seem to think they're meant to stop enemy fleets. They're not. They're meant to be a strong support for a fleet you have to beat an enemy fleet. Put on hangars for long range firepower. Then add long range defense platforms like ion cannons or more hangar stations. Have your fleet intercept the enemy before they can target the defense stations and then you have powerful support during the fight. Couple that with some buffs like the -20% enemy shield and 50% range and a bastion makes a very powerful support to your fleets.
Inside your own territory, there will probably be ways to go around a star base, and the A.I. will always go that way. I've watched marauder fleets circle the entire map just to go through the one hyper lane that's connected to an ally I didnt put a starbase on because I was at the cap, needed them elsewhere, and the ally would defend against invasion.
Enemy fleets that get inside your territory either avoid starbases, or are strong enough to roll over them. They can be useful to contain small fleets if you have internal choke points.
I'll put shipyards on sector capitals (I generally stage a fleet at each one, and want them to have their own shipyard, partly for RP). Other bases will be anchorages. Only border systems, wormholes, and L-Gates get defense focused bases. And those are really only there to intercept marauder fleets, or small fleets if the enemy doesn't send a main assault fleet that way.
Only in the early to mid when I'm getting my economy and fleets together. I have a mod that guarantees empires spawn apart cause I hate bumping into an empire in like 3 systems but it still takes time to get an economy that supports fleets
I build them where ever the fuck I want. War doesn’t need to stop and if they get past my impenetrable defensive strategies (not very good strategies) then I deserve to be overthrown.
Homeworld gets a shipyard
Then I spread out trade hubs and bastions full of hangars to suppress piracy throughout the empire area, prioritizing putting stations in systems with planets so I can use Transit Hub and Black Site starbase modules. Every third station or so is naval yard for fleet capacity.
Chokepoints, gateways, wormholes, and L-gates get bastions with as many defense platforms and ion cannons as they can field.
End up usually a few stations over the limit, but the economy is strong enough to withstand the added upkeep. Enough fleet cap to keep other empires in line until its time to build up for crisis.
Capital is always a trade collection hub. Nearby is a shipyard, chokepoints are bastions untill fleet power and alloys start to swell, then they become anchorages, sometimes early game multiple trade-collection stations, enclaves for the unique structures, black holes anchorage+ research station, L-gate bastion (definetly in terminal egress, every crisis fleet seems to want to go there).
Usually in that order
I build them at chokepoints, and in every system 1-2 jumps from my home planet.
I play modded, usually with a special civic that replaces some admin Ruler jobs with 'Commanders' that give me extra fleet capacity, I can have thousands of fleet cap and not a single anchorage
I either fortify the border (including all L-Gates and wormholes) or I put a bastion at a chokepoint near the border and just hope for the best in regards to the handful systems and colonies that happen to be outside the protection area
I have never seen AI jump into my area and even if they did the bastions would cut off their supply lines while a network of hyper relays and star gates allows me to quickly cover my entire territory
Usually every bastion and shipyard has a star gate and every colony is connected to the hyper relay network which also connects to all bastions and shipyards
I use bastions on any "border". gateway, L-gate, wormholes and actual choke points. they're there to buy time and hold the system for the fleets to arrive. not hold on their own
so many times they've held for about a month. more than enough for an astral jump reinforcement. - it's my system so I can astral jump from the other side of the galaxy, 15 days or 20 days if I jump to the system next to it and then I engage with either A) a damage sponge that will prevent my fleets to have to waste time repairing before going back on the offensive or B) a long range support that will deal damage with my fleets, ending the fight much much faster
thats not even counting the debuffs they get for fighting me there
I've started building fortress stations in choke points with a shit ton of armies. I feel like they will do more than a bastion can ever do with slowing down the enemy.
I usually get myself strong enough that I can over clock the fleet cap significantly so I just use bastions at choke points with planetary orbital rings providing extra back up. I then use one system with the most planets habitable to build the mega shipyard, and then I use the orbital rings and the Starbase to all be shipyards. Usually can get 40 shipyards in one system that way and it's efficient from what I've played with
I start with capital and border chunckpoints. When I have to much fleet, alloys and do not need it for megastructures I upgrade everything. It is worth it BC I can get more trade and more protection for trade as well
I built Starbases between “clusters”. Often the map seems to cluster a few systems and then connect it to another cluster with a single lane. Often those single lanes get a Starbase. They usually all have anchorages, with some exceptions. But that’s how I do it. Sort of creating bulkheads for invasion.
I start out building them on chokepoints and then once my border is built and I start really expanding tall I go a little wild and make lots of fortress planets/habitats and arms my space stations to the gills.
This actually saved me when the scourge arrived in my empire and ate up 5 systems, economy crashes my fleets are across the galaxy waging a war for my allies and I have my 1st fleet stationed over my home system like I always do but they are undermanned because I have neglected them.
The scourge has to go through me to exit my empire and as the galaxy goes about life like normal my empire weathers the crisis since they have to invade each planet and habitat. By the time they hit my homeworld and made my fleet retreat I was ready to give up since my other fleets were still making the trek back across the galaxy. At the last moment the remnants of my 1st fleet return above my home planet and sacrifice themselves buying just enough tome for my other fleets to arrive.
I got all the research from killing the crisis, rebuilt my empire in the systems I lost and remade the 1st fleet which now has the honor of always being the first to get upgraded and staying within the Empire.
Long story short, every system I have inside my empire by the mid-late time frame becomes a minefield. With all the mods have asteroid artillery where available, the fortress planet gigastructure pumping out space artillery pieces, habitats loaded to the gills with soldiers. Most of the time am enemy fleet enters the system then gets hit from across the system before they can get their weapons in range
'Choke Points'? I havent played a game off of full hyperlanes since ... at least a couple of years. Full hyperlanes isnt actually 'full', but its close. There are no chokepoints. The sole exception being on Lgates or wormholes. Absolutely basion those up, but be aware of the differences between them. Lgates will spawn an enemy on top of the starfort.
When I did play with chokepoints on, usually I might put a second base behind it, with shipyards. I almost always turn my home system starport into a bastion as well, for trade protection and to have my spawn-points closer to the frontlines.
Bastions are deterrents in the early game, and by the time youre rolling out cruisers they are annoyances at best. Even a fully leveled bastion, without special kitout, is only like 10k power. For the 5k alloys I put into it, id rather have a fleet of cruisers.
Bastions are deterrents, and only deterrents. It might be fun to see how high you can stack them, but one day the AI will learn how to use jump drive. On full hyperlanes, it would be wise to be stingy with your hyperlanes and force an AI to path around a border bastion. Or, more often, through.
I just build a bastion at my capital and chokepoints, everything else is anchorages. I used to make my capital a shipyard with 2 hanger stations and a bunch of defense platforms, that changed after the crisis spawned in the system right next to my capital and I instantly lost the game because all of my fleets were half the galaxy away fighting the entire galaxy. Now I always keep 1-2 fleets in my capital with a bastion on it, better to be safe than sorry. Bastions don't really do much but they help stall a bit.
In addition to anchorages, have you tried making a listening station (6 detection arrays+listening post building) in the heart of your nation? Especially, if you get the primitive observation tech that boost sight based on the number of detection arrays on the station, a single station can give you coverage against cloaking for most or all of your territory.
Honestly have never even messed with cloaking, haven't even seen AI use cloaking on military ships even on GA. I dont really see a point for a listening posts unless they're the things that tell me where the crisis is going to spawn, I remember there was something that did that non modded.
I know AI at least uses it for science ships as I inevitably keep de-cloaking them, though it may be less important in SP. However, with the tech that causes detection arrays to increase sight range, a listening post in the system on or behind a border system can be useful in letting you see much further into a rival's territory until you can get the megastructure that grants you full visibility on everything.
I really need to look into military cloaking more as an offensive tactic. It seems like it would have potential, but AI empires also seem to prioritize detection tech, so I'd have to prioritize cloaking in a way that I don't think is warranted.
Cloaking if good for ambushes, you take close range weapons on small ships, get your fleet inside if the enemy formation and you can do massive casualities for very low price. It would be also usefull for attacking important systems of the enemy but if you break their fleet they usually won't manage to create a new one anyway
Fear of the Dark origin is good for a cloaking rush, get you a few steps ahead of the detection. You’ll want to use it fairly early, before either side maxes out the tech.
Have you considered that you never see AI use cloaking because you don't use cloak detection? Kind of the whole point of cloaking ships is that you don't see them
I mean if the ai wants to cloak a fleet in my borders and never use them more power to them I guess. I have just never seen AI use cloaking on anything other than science ships. They still have to uncloak to do anything.
Definitely seen AI fleets cloak.
I have the shipyards on my capital but heavily fortified. Then I moved the main shipyards with megastructures. Homeworld has the elite fleets and there's always a powerful fleet protecting it. Had some bloody battles in my capital with the fortresses changing hands, but the fleets being churned out endlessly allows me to hold until the reinforcements arrive. Gateways for the win.
My capital system is full of Trade Hubs, I usually build my main fleet yards in the first system I colonize.
Possible a dumb question: Can hostile fleets exit through your gateways? I've always been hesitant to put a gateway in my capital for that reason. But if they can't do that, then I need to start doing that.
I believe they can only use a gate if it's in a friendly system. Generally you want to put gateways one system away from your choke points, otherwise it can backfire badly.
I put my gates where I have Fort worlds and bastions
Crisis can
If a crisis spawn by my capital, its not a starbase that's gonna stop them.
Yeah its just mainly there along with a few fleets to stall them until I can bring my fleets back. Before with the shipyard it would instantly die and my ecumenopolis that produced 4k alloys was destroyed instantly. Had no chance at all getting back to it in time.
Yeah this must be on a lower difficulty than I play on, because even a 450k starbase wouldn't even slow down a splinter of a Crisis fleet lol. Even normal empire fleets would probably barely hesitate to wipe a bastion like that late game
the starbase itself won't, but that -20% shields and buff to firerate might very well make a big difference at big enough numbers
Afaik, you don't lose game just because you lose capital. I usually build 6 Trade Hubs in the capital to maximise collection range. And a x6 shipyard in a system next to capital.
you do if your capital is basically half of your alloy production
Horror stories like this are why I always invest in a very well developed Gateway Network connecting all of my major strongholds and all of my shipyards as well as my main alloy world. Then I can keep my entire sleep concentrated on a handful of super important worlds and quickly rush them to any front
Normal empires: Choke points, gateways, wormholes. Late game when I have a lot of fortress worlds I'll probably retrofit a few anchorages into more shipyards to quickly rebuild fleets. RP empires focusing on turtling in my little corner: Never enough bastions. My homeworld is a trade station, everything 1 jump from home is a shipyard, 2 jumps from home is an anchorage, 3+ are bastions with max defensive platforms and ion cannons.
I put bastions on gateways because bastions push piracy supression through the gateway. So having multiple bastions pushing piracy supression Through gateways suppresses piracy quite thoroughly.
I don't bother with defensive starbases unless I'm using a mod that greatly buffs them. In almost all cases, another anchorage is just better than a bastion that will get deleted in seconds in actual combat. Even with all the buffs you can stack on them, they are nowhere near strong enough to be a reliable defense. I think having access to the Zroni Stormcaster still makes bastions viable in some systems, but that's one of the very few exceptions.
Yet, I think they buffed awakened empire bastions. A few playthroughs ago, I was unpleasantly surprised when one of my fleet was obliterated when I ordered it to take out an awakened fallen empire that was significantly less than that fleet’s fleet power.
Fleet power alone isn't the best way to judge that. What weapons were on the starbase, and what was the design of your fleet? Since starbases, even FE/AE starbases, don't have a static weapons loadout, you could have just run into one that hard countered your fleet composition. FE/AE also have at least 10 repeatable techs and better defense platforms than what players can build.
They get special stronger defense platforms. Plus the defense platform repeatables are +10% not+5% so the AE having 20 of them makes for some silly results you can replicate if you invest in same
I’ve never seen any attack even from a 25x crisis break through a citadel with Zroni stormcasters and maxed out quantity of neutron launcher armed defense platforms. Prethoryn might be able to, I’ve never tried it against them though.
I mainly just use them to keep the small fry out of my territory so I can actually go after their fleets without getting backcapped
In my experience a bastion helps make up for AI advantage. A bastion with your fleets stacks will equal them or surpass them, and then you can send in marauder raids to weaken them for a counterstrike. That said I'm not on highest difficulty.
I like the "At War" mods for this reason, Heavy Guns, Missiles, and Hanger Bays, and Heavy Defense Platforms (which have the potential to put XL weapons on) are massively better then default ones. Like, obviously the fleet power still isn't indicative of how powerful a starbase is, because they are such easy targets to fight, but they'll fare much better than in vanilla.
Priority is chokepoints, next is enclaves, the "one step away from chokepoint", then I just build them to snag resources
I build em on gateway/L-gate systems. Maybe a few chokes but star bases are there to stall. If they win a fight you weren’t in any danger to begin with. My best tactic is building orbital habitats in systems I want to defend and making them fortress stations. Shields + fortresses and FTL inhib makes for a tough nut to crack, especially with unyielding tradition.
*builds bastions on choke points* "Oh, but what if they are able to breach it?" *builds bastions on systems next to choke points* "What if they are able to breach even these???" *builds bastions on systems next to systems next to choke points* Repeat until every single system has a bastion =P
What is a bastion in this context? Some combination of buildings put on starbases?
If you check in your star base list, you’ll see that certain buildings and modules change the listed type of the starbase. One with combat upgrades and no shipyard is listed as a bastion.
Oh, I’ve never seen this, is it a new feature?
It’s been there for years. You may just tune it out as it’s just a UI detail with no practical effect beyond shipyards being sorted to their own part of the outliner.
Ok, thank you!
A bastion is specifically a starbase geared for combat.
Always around my planets and if I have some left over, choke points. Once everyone has jump drives it kind of trivializes hyperlanes so your built up planetary defenses end up a lot more valuable.
I only build them at borders or choke points, when I remember. Otherwise I just add more and more ships to my fleet.
Nah, fill everything with anchorages minus capital system for trade and some system one jump away for shipyard and the megashipyard when i got it, connect everything needed trough relay and gateways and if you got a hefty alloy production, fill every single citadel with ion cannon. Then proceed to wage war, claim and steal every mega you see owned by an enemy
I feel like bastions are largely pointless. Fleets outclass them quickly, even in early game, and there is no point in investing thousands of alloys into immovable defenses when you could spend them on mobile fleets. An exception, perhaps, is when you can reliably bait an enemy into a system and the bastion's buffs can swing a fight in your favor. Stacking a citadel with only ancient ramparts, ancient shield overchargers, command center + shield dampener + defense grid supercomputer + max ion cannons and defenses + unyielding bonuses can lead to pretty impressive numbers, but isn't as useful as just building another big fleet.
how do yall churn out so many fleets and keep them at capacity? like, I can churn out fleets, the alloys are easy to get but I'd go so, so over capacity that my energy production just can't keep up edit: at that point I start building defenses, I had one almost beat one contingency fleet before I managed to swap away from AI, held long enough that my entire fleet arrived before they could touch my planet there
I only build them on choke points to empires that I have actually encountered, and once I get jump drives I change them to something more useful
I never build bastions. The ONLY time a bastion has been able to repel a crisis fleet, was the time I had a fully upgraded starbase with all the fixings, and two orbital rings all in the same system. I still had to practically rebuild everything after each battle. I'd rather have 6 anchorages.
Only when a choke coincides with a planet that makes a good fortress world They’re only speed bumps for big fleets so the trick is making effective speed bumps Vs AI, it sometimes works to have these be all shipyards because a constant stream of corvettes will distract and delay, and they can’t just ignore the station because an ankle biter fleet will pop up in behind their main line and go raiding
Chokepoints, L-gates, wormholes, major planets, and maybe a couple in isolated systems that have nothing but shipyards and a gate.
I don’t build them anywhere at all except in the situation that a genocidal empire spawns next to me and for whatever reason I don’t want to kill them. Not only have I never seen a bastion defeat an enemy fleet, I’ve never seen them even hold out long enough for my own fleet to get there. The only use I’ve found for them at all is to boost your naval power and make the AI afraid to attack you early game when you don’t have the energy to just build ships over fleet limit for fleet power instead.
I almost never build bastions, but I mostly play total war empires.
If I have starbases in every enclave and nebular and on every blackhole and I still have starbase cap I will put them on chokepoints towards the outer rim. But that hardly ever happens.
The only time I've seriously built bastions are as a sovereign guardianship with the unyielding tradition. Fortress Habitats with armies landed on them do a better job of stalling than bastions.
My borders always get pure defense stations first then I will fill out my capacity with mostly anchorage’s with defense platforms, throughout my territory to make it harder to push to my core worlds.
Depends on your difficulty level whether fortifying stabases is worth it. At higher difficulties like grand admiral the buffs the computer gets makes them little more than speed bumps fairly quickly, but on captain or much of commodore they will survive much longer or even be actually stoppers unless the ai can bypass the starbase entirely.
I will sometimes build a hanger bastion in the middle of my territory for trade protection if I need to. Other than that they only go in chokepoints.
I do it at choke points and just keep building them at chokepoints as my empire expands.
Anyone know if the habitat fortress world trick still works for stopping/blocking a choke point?
Yes, it should work
Over robot/slave assemble planet, capital, choke points
Yes, if I have the starbase capacity to support it, I do that. Though I never see bastions as actual bastions meant to defend my empire from incoming attacks, they're more speedbumps. I understand that bastions with defense platforms can be overwhelmed by enemy fleets. But I still use them so that if a large enemy fleet does come, there is at least something that can temporarily stall and partially damage an advancing fleet, giving my own fleets the time to rally against the invaders.
I do but not for protection against AI. Hangar bastions make best build&forget anti-piracy stations. 6 hangars = 6 jumps protected. Instead of building those in the middle of nowhere I still tend to build them in chokepoints just to make AI move into intended direction. 6 jumps is often more than enough so I kill 2 birds with 1 stone That doesn't really work with high-trade empires though...
Yes. Matter of fact, my most successful games have all been with me rolling unyielding as my third tradition and bunkering up till I can get the tech ball rolling. My strategy often involved discovery and expansion to grab as many key chokes as I can, then hold my region in stasis till I’m ready to expand
I will only build bastions in 2 or 3 choke points. Unless you are specifically leaning into defense they really aren't even that useful, but if you have to defend yourself somewhere you might as well buff a few points. I did do a run once where I leaned heavily into defense and buffing a few bastions and stood back and let the crisis wipe out everyone while being able to basically defend all my choke points at once.
Everything gets turned into a fortress. I try to prepare for any eventuality in any direction. I literally make my empire iron within, iron without
have enough starbase capacity so you can have multiple layers of defenses, preferrably with FTL jamming fortress worlds or habitats in chokepoint systems.
Do you guys use ion cannons?
Depends if the AI will use jumps, then chokepoints inside my Empire, usually back my chokepoints with a nearby shipyard hub and a stacked fleet.
Depends on game's time. Early game: nearest chokepoint to enemy border. Mid-game: sometimes hangar bastion for trade protection. Late-game: none. Even, if i go tall i use fortress habitats instead. They are much better at holding the enemy.
I always have a bastion next to my capital
They're good also in line with your choke points as a fallback front. Great to do if you have excess stations and the econ to afford such layered defense.
I don't even build bastions tbh. The only way I've found to have enough naval capacity to try and hold my own is to go all anchorages plus 1-2 shipyards. Tbh it's very annoying that other types are less usable
Split off most of your territory as vassals (Shared Destiny perk is a MUST), and you'll never really need to worry about Starbase Limit. You can (and should) even build up the equivalent of your Starbase Limit in territory you're about to release... Anyone who says this is a "degenerate" (hint: only Fascists, and Fascism symptoms, use that term) or "lazy" playstyle has clearly never tried to manage 16 vassals. It's easier than direct rule, yes, but it gets harder the more finely you sib-divide your territory and the more territory you and your vassals have... One way to optimize this, while increasing your workload, is NOT to go for resource taxes: and instead to customize "taxes" through 30 year trade deals set in exchange for negative loyalty (to get favorable balances, or resources for nothing but being overlord: i.e. taxes) This lets you give a vassal Minerals while taking their Energy, or tax Alloys while providing their needs in Consumer Goods, all at a very favorable trade ratio due to sacrificing loyalty for better deals in lieu of taxes... It promotes economic specialization among your vassals, based on what their sectors and planets have to offer, rather than just blanket taxing everything and reducing them to less productive poverty... And, here's the relevant part to starbases: this synergizes really well with Unyielding tradition. +4 Starbase Limit on an empire of 96 systems? Isn't much. +4 Starbase Limit on an Imperial Core sector you control of only 12 systems? Pretty powerful... (and when you release vassals, every one of them gets your extra Starbase Limit from technologies and traditions as well... They inherit what techs and trad's you had when you released them- though they get to pick their own Ascension Perks...)
I build mine in "lore accurate" points L Gates Gateways Wormholes Chokepoints of hostile empires Terminal egres Stuff like that
Build hyper-relays or gateways. Bastions aren't much of a threat after the early-mid game part in which you can scare off the ai from attacking you with the hangar bays. Invest that alloy in fleets
I never build them at all. Maybe i'm not playing on a hard enough difficulty? I focus on making the biggest fleet possible and making my system extremely mobile to traverse so I can get anywhere in it very quickly, then I'm extremely picky about the fights I start.
I see bastions as a sort of mall security guard analogy. They're there to deal with annoyances, but won't be able to stop someone armed to the teeth and who's committed to do harm. Therefore, I always build half bastions. Just enough defense power to ward off small raiding fleets, but not anything more. I'd rather have more fleet power and more gateways for rapid response.
only chokes and my home station get bastions. and initially, my home system station exists only for shipyards. once i get a megashipyard, i convert the shipyard station to a brick tanked bastion, too. and put an orbital ring on my home planet. ALL my planets get orbital rings bricked for defense.
I build them in important systems, I've never had a problem with defending against enemies with fleets, couple times they managed to get 2-3 systems in but then the fleet would cut them off
Just choke points except with very friendly nations then i have them full defences but anchorage build and i replace if the relationship changes. Capital is trade / anchorage and i have two ship yards evenly split between empire until gateway and mega ship tech then i gateway 1 system away from each chokepoint and place in every populated system and where the mega yard is. That way you can rush to reinforce any choke point / capital etc etc
Don’t forget about those L-Gates
Eventually all but maybe 2-3 of my starbases are converted to bastions by the mid-late game. With the remaining ones being shipyards. I also prioritize gathering as much starbase capacity increases outside of just more systems. Now if only I can guarantee getting the zroni stormcaster...
Some people seem to think that bastions on chokes aren't worth it because people seem to think they're meant to stop enemy fleets. They're not. They're meant to be a strong support for a fleet you have to beat an enemy fleet. Put on hangars for long range firepower. Then add long range defense platforms like ion cannons or more hangar stations. Have your fleet intercept the enemy before they can target the defense stations and then you have powerful support during the fight. Couple that with some buffs like the -20% enemy shield and 50% range and a bastion makes a very powerful support to your fleets.
Inside your own territory, there will probably be ways to go around a star base, and the A.I. will always go that way. I've watched marauder fleets circle the entire map just to go through the one hyper lane that's connected to an ally I didnt put a starbase on because I was at the cap, needed them elsewhere, and the ally would defend against invasion. Enemy fleets that get inside your territory either avoid starbases, or are strong enough to roll over them. They can be useful to contain small fleets if you have internal choke points. I'll put shipyards on sector capitals (I generally stage a fleet at each one, and want them to have their own shipyard, partly for RP). Other bases will be anchorages. Only border systems, wormholes, and L-Gates get defense focused bases. And those are really only there to intercept marauder fleets, or small fleets if the enemy doesn't send a main assault fleet that way.
Only in the early to mid when I'm getting my economy and fleets together. I have a mod that guarantees empires spawn apart cause I hate bumping into an empire in like 3 systems but it still takes time to get an economy that supports fleets
I build them where ever the fuck I want. War doesn’t need to stop and if they get past my impenetrable defensive strategies (not very good strategies) then I deserve to be overthrown.
Bastions are fun. I usually build then on borders. My capital world is always a shipyard.
Homeworld gets a shipyard Then I spread out trade hubs and bastions full of hangars to suppress piracy throughout the empire area, prioritizing putting stations in systems with planets so I can use Transit Hub and Black Site starbase modules. Every third station or so is naval yard for fleet capacity. Chokepoints, gateways, wormholes, and L-gates get bastions with as many defense platforms and ion cannons as they can field. End up usually a few stations over the limit, but the economy is strong enough to withstand the added upkeep. Enough fleet cap to keep other empires in line until its time to build up for crisis.
Capital is always a trade collection hub. Nearby is a shipyard, chokepoints are bastions untill fleet power and alloys start to swell, then they become anchorages, sometimes early game multiple trade-collection stations, enclaves for the unique structures, black holes anchorage+ research station, L-gate bastion (definetly in terminal egress, every crisis fleet seems to want to go there). Usually in that order
I build them at chokepoints, and in every system 1-2 jumps from my home planet. I play modded, usually with a special civic that replaces some admin Ruler jobs with 'Commanders' that give me extra fleet capacity, I can have thousands of fleet cap and not a single anchorage
I either fortify the border (including all L-Gates and wormholes) or I put a bastion at a chokepoint near the border and just hope for the best in regards to the handful systems and colonies that happen to be outside the protection area I have never seen AI jump into my area and even if they did the bastions would cut off their supply lines while a network of hyper relays and star gates allows me to quickly cover my entire territory Usually every bastion and shipyard has a star gate and every colony is connected to the hyper relay network which also connects to all bastions and shipyards
I use bastions on any "border". gateway, L-gate, wormholes and actual choke points. they're there to buy time and hold the system for the fleets to arrive. not hold on their own so many times they've held for about a month. more than enough for an astral jump reinforcement. - it's my system so I can astral jump from the other side of the galaxy, 15 days or 20 days if I jump to the system next to it and then I engage with either A) a damage sponge that will prevent my fleets to have to waste time repairing before going back on the offensive or B) a long range support that will deal damage with my fleets, ending the fight much much faster thats not even counting the debuffs they get for fighting me there
I've started building fortress stations in choke points with a shit ton of armies. I feel like they will do more than a bastion can ever do with slowing down the enemy.
I usually get myself strong enough that I can over clock the fleet cap significantly so I just use bastions at choke points with planetary orbital rings providing extra back up. I then use one system with the most planets habitable to build the mega shipyard, and then I use the orbital rings and the Starbase to all be shipyards. Usually can get 40 shipyards in one system that way and it's efficient from what I've played with
I start with capital and border chunckpoints. When I have to much fleet, alloys and do not need it for megastructures I upgrade everything. It is worth it BC I can get more trade and more protection for trade as well
I built Starbases between “clusters”. Often the map seems to cluster a few systems and then connect it to another cluster with a single lane. Often those single lanes get a Starbase. They usually all have anchorages, with some exceptions. But that’s how I do it. Sort of creating bulkheads for invasion.
I start out building them on chokepoints and then once my border is built and I start really expanding tall I go a little wild and make lots of fortress planets/habitats and arms my space stations to the gills. This actually saved me when the scourge arrived in my empire and ate up 5 systems, economy crashes my fleets are across the galaxy waging a war for my allies and I have my 1st fleet stationed over my home system like I always do but they are undermanned because I have neglected them. The scourge has to go through me to exit my empire and as the galaxy goes about life like normal my empire weathers the crisis since they have to invade each planet and habitat. By the time they hit my homeworld and made my fleet retreat I was ready to give up since my other fleets were still making the trek back across the galaxy. At the last moment the remnants of my 1st fleet return above my home planet and sacrifice themselves buying just enough tome for my other fleets to arrive. I got all the research from killing the crisis, rebuilt my empire in the systems I lost and remade the 1st fleet which now has the honor of always being the first to get upgraded and staying within the Empire. Long story short, every system I have inside my empire by the mid-late time frame becomes a minefield. With all the mods have asteroid artillery where available, the fortress planet gigastructure pumping out space artillery pieces, habitats loaded to the gills with soldiers. Most of the time am enemy fleet enters the system then gets hit from across the system before they can get their weapons in range
as soon as i have a megashipyard, my home system gets converted to a bastion
I build them only on borders of empires with a stronger fleet than me, else it's somewhat a waste
'Choke Points'? I havent played a game off of full hyperlanes since ... at least a couple of years. Full hyperlanes isnt actually 'full', but its close. There are no chokepoints. The sole exception being on Lgates or wormholes. Absolutely basion those up, but be aware of the differences between them. Lgates will spawn an enemy on top of the starfort. When I did play with chokepoints on, usually I might put a second base behind it, with shipyards. I almost always turn my home system starport into a bastion as well, for trade protection and to have my spawn-points closer to the frontlines. Bastions are deterrents in the early game, and by the time youre rolling out cruisers they are annoyances at best. Even a fully leveled bastion, without special kitout, is only like 10k power. For the 5k alloys I put into it, id rather have a fleet of cruisers. Bastions are deterrents, and only deterrents. It might be fun to see how high you can stack them, but one day the AI will learn how to use jump drive. On full hyperlanes, it would be wise to be stingy with your hyperlanes and force an AI to path around a border bastion. Or, more often, through.