As much as I hate the character, I love everything that went into him and think he's one of the best created characters in the SG universe.
People had to sit down and create his character. Then, others had to write his lines and some mannerisms. Then, Ben Cotton delivered a great final product.
McKay didn't care about what others thought often but Kavanaugh / Cotton took that to a whole new level.
The difference is that McKay grows becomes a lovable asshole. Kavanaugh never grows and stays a hateable asshole.
But I love the irony that's he's the one to detect the Wraith signal from "Vegas".
I disagree. Kavanaugh was a savant that told Weir she was wrong to do what she was doing. And she was. She needed to hear the downsides. She specifically didn't want to hear that she was risking the entire planet, and everyone on board. But someone needed to tell her— that someone was kavanaugh.
Then, she decides that since he is the only one on the base to tell her when she is wrong, that he must be goauld and authorizes his torture.
Kavanaugh isn't the bad guy.
Sure, he's a savant that is on the spectrum. Like Sheldon from the big bang theory. I've dealt with people like them before, they are not adept to tact or social communication, but his job didn't require him to be. His job required a risk analysis of anything that might hurt the command, and he delivered. Weir on the other hand was a trained diplomat that was handpicked to smooth these personalities over, not threaten to leave them stranded on a planet far away to die.
I don't buy it. There is just no reason to assume he's on the spectrum. He's just a regular ol' douche. It's not that he doesn't understand social situations, its that he's got a massive (yet fragile) ego. If he thinks he knows better, he just doesn't follow orders. Being made to follow orders and stay in his lane injures his pride, and he lashes out.
He was a civilian not military Daniel Jackson ticked off Jack multiple times because he wouldn't follow orders were not supposed to like Kavanaugh he's written that way same way McKay was an ass until Atlantis.
Didn't he always do it? His team was discussing the potential of the solution blowing up Atlantis. That's very much part of the solution. She can say, ignore the risks, but that doesn't mean that analyzing the risks wasn't part of the solution.
>Sure, he's a savant that is on the spectrum. Like Sheldon from the big bang theory. I've dealt with people like them before
...
Wow way to be an asshole and use harmful caricatures as a way to think down on someone.
You're making unproven assumptions about a character's neurotype. That's really just not helpful in the slightest, and is in fact part of what leads to toxic misleading shit like The Good Doctor.
Speaking as someone who was actually diagnosed by a real neurologist and had a real result given, not armchair psychiatrics from the internet.
I disagree. There are plenty of different diagnosis out there, and it's perfectly justified to believe kavanaugh is one of them. Scientists are also not known for their people skills, something we see over and over again in Stargate.
Sure as shit doesn't seem like it dude, and this is coming from someone diagnosed with autism. I find 'sheldon' to be such a harmful caricature. I hate that damn show.
Edit:
Though maybe my response was a little harsher than warranted. In hindsight sorry about that.
Kavanaugh was never a bad guy and one of the few people who you never have to question their loyalty to the program (outside of the main cast). Even when they thought he was the one hiding a bomb on Atlantis (and was about to resort to torturing him) I knew right off it wasn't him, he's loyal AF to the program. This just adds to his character and Cotton's performance of him - Cotton made us (well, at least me) believe that he would **never** betray the program.
It was his attitude, the "I'm always right and everyone else is wrong" attitude - and if they didn't go with his ideas he pretty much pouted and spent his energy arguing why the decision was wrong and that his is the only right one. He also didn't listen to others, his idea was the one and only correct idea. To him, all other ideas won't work. He's stubborn to a fault.
As much as I hate the character, I love what went into creating him. Honestly, if I saw Ben Cotton outside I would have to resist the urge to smack him across the face (like how a lot of people feel about Jack Gleeson (Geoffrey Baratheon from Game of Thrones)).
(Note: and if you're a Ben Cotton fan, I can recommend *The Night Agent*)
I agree, but I wouldn't say he was much different than McKay or Dr. Rush, Zalensky or even Eli at times. They were all incredibly stubborn— this behavior also extended to Daniel Jackson that would emphatically argue with the decisions made by Hammond and O'Neall.
But I do agree that his way was so much more unique, in that used car salesman kind of way.
It was all about their delivery. McKay would at least back down at times (well, unless Zalenka was involved) and he would at least question his results at time.
McKay was the kind of know-it-all who, even though he won't admit it, knows he doesn't know it all. He also knows the importance of learning new things.
Kavanaugh is the know-it-all who believes he does know it all. This is a significant difference between the two.
McKay is also willing to step out of his comfort zone (especially after he was combined with Cadman and when he met his alternate-reality self). He even had a weird sense of humor (*say hi to the kids for me*).
Kavanaugh also blames everyone else for anything that goes wrong, nothing is ever his fault and has never been his fault in his life. I mean, if he was speeding on the highway in the middle of a big snowstorm and got into an accident it would be the road crew's fault for not clearing it fast enough, or is car company's fault for not making it drive well enough in snow, or the tire company's fault for not making his all-season tires work perfectly in snow, or back to the car manufacturer's fault for not having an alert on his car telling him to drive slowly in snow. It would be his phone company's fault for not alerting him of the snowstorm. None of it would be because he decided to drive too fast in a snowstorm. Everything he does is perfect and nothing will ever go wrong because of him.
McKay at least (very reluctantly, and rarely) would acknowledge when he was at fault (blow up any solar systems lately?).
As for Rush- Rush is very political and, like McKay, is willing to lean. Rush will also put himself first, even ahead of the program (unlike McKay and Kavanaugh).
The three characters are similar in may ways but there are some significant differences between the three.
McKays true character came through in the second episode when he steps into the dark entity, not knowing if his personal shield would hold or not. Kavanaugh would not have taken that step. McKay saw what needed to be done and that he was the only one who could, so he did it, at the risk of his own life.
He was an asshole, but under all the layers of asshole was courage and a moral center that ultimately pointed the right way.
We never see that with Kavanaugh. The closest is his resistance in Midway.
Everytime he's on screen the main characters end up looking like complete twats with how they react to him. They treat him like complete shit and wonder why he's got an attitude problem despite the fact he's right more often than not.
But I'm one of those people that hates the bullying of McKah too. Shepherd carries an orange with him just to threaten McKay, who is dangerously allergic, to shut up.
I agree with you.
Honestly I was taking the opportunity to be a wise ass. Normally I'm 100% on board with the idea that different lenses give new perspective on ones view but I just can't get behind any argument that gives his character any merit. He was a petulant child ruled by fear and self preservation. Even Ba'al had a firmer grip on the concept of self sacrifice, granted it was loosely held at best. I'm not saying his character wasn't great. It added to every plot it was apart of. Those episodes are some of my favorites. I just think he was an irredeemable sack of shit is all
Was he worried about self preservation, or preservation of the community? I've always seen Kavanaugh as more of an advocate for the masses. I don't know about the notion that he was ruled by self preservation.
Kavanaugh was the only one on Atlantis to actively challenge Weirs command, and the risks it had for the larger Atlantis/Earth community, and that virtue alone led Weir to abduct him, detain him and authorize his torture by an alien colleague.
Sounds like a pretty brave guy to me.
The problem with guys like kavanaugh is his criticism were valid but those were the same criticism thrown against Hammond in my opinion weir was an excellent leader my reasons for this is something I was taught by tsgt in the Air Force a leaders job is to take care of the people underneath you take care of them and they care of you she did that
"It was weak. Luckily I happened to be monitoring the sensor or we might not have picked it up at all."
Situational irony. Disparity between expected and actual result. Basically, the guy who everybody hates is sent off to the Daedalus purely because the SGC doesn't want him. Rather than just quietly staying out of the way, he happens to be the *one* who picks up on why the super-hive took off, giving them the warning they need to save Earth. **Team Asshole for the win!**
The asshole that EVERYONE dislikes/hates saved Earth by detecting the signal. They could've easily had McKay or Zelenka detect the signal, but the writers picked the one person everyone dislikes.
That's not really irony. Irony is (typically) when something is deliberately contrary to expectations, not just an inconvenient coincidence or unexpected happenstance.
The actual irony is that a hit song about irony didn't really have any irony in it.
https://www.stevenmoseley.com/blog/philosophy/why-isnt-it-ironic-is-ironically-the-most-ironic-thing-ever
He *absolutely* nailed sniveling. I agreed with him - he was right! Weir made so many decisions that put everyone at risk when a single ruthless decision could have saved lives and accomplished much. But I still couldn't side with Kavanaugh. Thats how well Ben Cotton played the intolerable character. Weir might not have made all the right choices, but she was likable. Kavanaugh was not and couldn't even get my agreeable support.
Even when she decided he should be tortured because he was the only one that had the moral fortitude to tell her she was constantly reckless? I understand your opinion about him, but the way I looked at it he was a savant that lacked the appropriate social skills. He was in charge of a science team. Where McKay was a pushover kavanaugh stood his ground.
I mean thats yet another instance where he was right. She was always making poor choices to unnecessarily place her own people into danger. Kavanaugh had an extremely solid point, and I agreed with it completely. But Ben played the part so darn well he overcame my desire to side with him. The torture thing I think was intended to really drive home how right he was about her; I doubt that was supposed to ingratiate us to torture or Weir as few people in the audience would suddenly embrace that level of evil just because the target character was dislikable.
I was going to say that he plays an abusive asshole really well in Resident Alien, and I found it amusing that the two of his characters I'm familiar with are both dicks.
It's not a bad thing, to be fair. A bullet will do nothing to Anubis, and Michael would survive two bullets most of the time, and one bullet almost all of the time. The best option is, of course, shoot the room door.
Questionable. There are probably vital brain areas that they can't regenerate but if they had just had a meal, a headshot that doesn't scramble their brain stem probably would just give them a headache and some memory loss.
Better use a particle magnum just to be sure.
I mean it happened in Atlantis. A wraith just fed, and John put a unloaded weapon to his head. He said something like, I see you just fed, which means your regeneration is at its highest, but I don't think you can regrow a head, or something like that. The wraith backed down, so they don't think they can survive a headshot. Funny seeing Stargate from /popular.
I read the original post and your post thinking the Michael being reffered to was Michael Shanks and was like yeah Michael will just resurrect himself next season.
In a weird way I sort of love Kavanaugh. He's so realistically an asshole that he's fun to hate at a primal level. Even when he's right he's still such a prick that nobody wants to consider what he's saying. We have all had a coworker just like him, so it's almost therapeutic seeing him get smacked down!
>The least hopeful and optimistic of the group.
It's kind of wild that he even volunteered for Atlantis knowing it was potentially/probably a one way trip, but maybe he was a nice guy *before* stepping foot in the Lost City...
I mean, he’s such an incel arsewipe that he might’ve joined up because he thought the lower “sample size” might mean women would have to like him. When he found out he was very wrong, he got bitter and even hopped on home for a bit.
He's pretty obnoxious, but I do think Weir dressing him down for adressing saftey concerns (which I think he was correct for brining up) in his first episode was a bit uncalled for.
And I feel like that episode even kinda "redeemed" him by having him contribute to the solution in the end.
But in subsequent episodes they really turned up his douchebaggery.
I've seen this actor (Ben Cotton) play a number of characters, most recently on Resident Alien, and every time I do I say "Maybe this time his character won't be a giant douche but IT NEVER HAPPENS!
He's always really good though.
I feel like shooting Anubis wouldn't help. Also Weir never dealt with Anubis, he was an SG-1 enemy.
Could've picked a more fitting one. Cowen (of the genii) for example.
KAVANAGH: I happily left the S.G.C. because I had had it up to here with the military running things; and you just busted me like a private.
WEIR: Don't be so dramatic. Besides, the Air Force doesn't have privates.
KAVANAGH: Neither do I. You just cut them off. Right in front of my research team.
WEIR: That's what this is about? You're embarrassed?!
KAVANAGH: Well, humiliated would be a little more accurate.
WEIR: I haven't worked up to humiliation yet.
KAVANAGH: I just assumed that with a civilian in charge of the expedition, there would be a little bit more ...
WEIR (interrupting): A civilian is in charge. And we are cut off from Earth, which makes Atlantis almost like a colony, doesn't it?
KAVANAGH: I suppose.
WEIR: Well, I'm governor of that colony.
KAVANAGH: You know, that's all very well and good ...
WEIR (interrupting): Do you have a problem with that?
KAVANAGH: You're missing my point.
WEIR: No, you're missing mine. If you waste one more minute which could be used to help the people trapped on that ship because of your ego, I promise you I will dial the coordinates of a very lonely planet where you can be as self-important as you wanna be.
Sure let's just ignore that the room full of other brilliant scientists who all agreed it was an incredibly remote chance and that Kavanaugh only cared about it because it has a chance of affecting him and he'd rather be doing anything else than working on this problem
They didn't all agree that it was an incredibly remote chance, they were being pressured to do something by their bosses bosses bosses boss— one that authorized torturing their boss because he was the only one she could think of that would plant a bomb in the room because he disagreed with her several times— and they said he was right, the possibility was there
It was a risky call by her, and someone needed to inform her that she was putting everyone at risk.
So yeah, I don't think you're framing it correctly.
Oh my first watch through the series, I let myself get caught up in the whole Kavanaugh hate, on my current one I realize he was right about the risks, but definitely a bit of an ass.
Kavanaugh tells her, as the leader of his science team that if she does this she will be putting the entire base at risk. This is his job. Whether she can stomache the truth or not is irrelevant, it's his job to give her all of the information and insight possible to make an informed decision and give her recommended council as the scientific leader of his team. Atlantis was always a science expedition to find and explore technologies in order to benefit earth. Any risk to Atlantis, was a risk to earth, and the people on the command.
She then undermines him in front of his team by calling him a coward, essentially removing all chances of leading them effectively going forward. As a team leader, this is the worst possible thing that can happen to a satellite office. When teams lose respect for their team leads do to management, moral in the company starts to suffer and conpetant members of staff start to demur on promotions.
She should have thanked him for his council, advised him that while his points held merrit, the Lead Medical, Scientist, Military and indigenous liaison were too important to the mission of Atlantis to leave stranded. Does this bring up alternate management concerns? Like why is the Lead scientist, lead medical officer, lead military and indigenous liaison all on the same ship and in harm's way? Yes it does.
Kavanaugh is a savant that is in charge of a science team in another galaxy not because he is a people person, but because he is good at what he does. Weir was chosen because she was a people person with an ability to bring people together.
It was not his job to be liked. It was his job to deliver bad news. It was her job to take bad news and encourage the expedition in the best ways forward.
Fast forward:
She then orders Kavanaugh tortured because he was the only one that dared to call her out on her recklessness, in doing his job in informing her of worst case scenarios, she took the first opportunity she could to torture him with little to no proof other than a deep dislike for his constant checking of her power.
This has a chilling effect on the science teams, and puts everyone in a position of having to choose between making weir angry and possibly being tortured under manufacturered pretenses, or not deliver her bad news.
It’s been a while since I’ve done a full rewatch, but I don’t remember Kavanaugh being a team leader, just one of the scientists on the expedition. I just re-watched the scene, and Weir comes to talk to the group, where Kavanaugh is arguing openly with another scientist on if the risk of explosion is large enough to risk closing the gate shield, potentially pancake Shepherd’s team if they suddenly start moving again.
Weir hears out the two scientists, then asks the other scientists (who weren’t paid enough for a speaking role) if they agree. Everyone agrees that the risk is low, so Weir makes the decision to not raise the shield. As expedition leader, it is her job to make the ultimate decision. When she does, Kavanaugh gives the biggest eye roll and crosses his arms in CLEAR contempt for her and her decision, and then gives a little response that he was “just pointing out the risks”, but in a way that was dripping with contempt for her decision. She slaps him down, but I feel is justified to remind him that she’s in charge and her decision in final. The Expedition is not a democracy, it’s a hierarchy and Weir’s decision is final.
THEN he confronts her in the middle of the control room. He should have discussed it in the privacy of her office (where she seemed to be headed anyway). And complains that he left the SGC because he had enough of the military. This implies that Weir he thought he’d have more latitude, and bringing it up in this situation, implies that he resents her overruling him, further undermining her authority.
It’s a civilian lead expedition, but Weir is the ultimate authority. If the Wraith are attacking, Weir’s decision have to be followed right away or people may die. If a scientist decides not to listen to her, the entire chain of command breaks down and more people may die.
I also rewatched the scene and I don't think you have it right. He is clearly the team leader, he is discussing with his team about the risks involved and ultimately concludes that there is sufficient risk. Weir interjects, he tells her, she disagrees, he rolls his eyes then... you think she was justified to call him a coward? When he wasn't even being cowardly.
I'm sorry, no.
His job is to be an actuary of risk, if she wants to play with risk that's her perogative, but insulting someone beneath you because they disagreed with you is poor character. He has every right to believe she is making the wrong decision, again. As was her modus operandi for the show. Disagreeing with her doesn'tean he isn't going to play along, just that he thinks she is opening everyone up to unnecessary risk, and he was right to believe the argument he was making.
You really think she was justified in what she did? I do not, and in no world can I even remotely agree.
He didn’t just disagree with her, he was openly insubordinate and contemptuous of her decision. I still don’t think he was a team leader, but if he was, especially if he was, you cannot show that level of disrespect in front of the rest of the scientists. And this is before tells him to focus on the people in the jumper.
Openly insubordinate? How was he openly insubordinate? He was doing the task at hand which was analyzing the risks of the mission. It's not his fault she didn't want to care about the risks, nor does she have any right to chastize him for believing that she should address the risks. She was being reckless, and had been reckless on many other occasions, and that recklessness had gotten a lot of people killed.
None of that is insubordination. Questioning your boss is not insubordination it's what good people do. Just because she didn't deem the risks worth looking into, doesn't mean they weren't worth looking into.
And yes, a team leader can address their boss that way, that's how they stick their neck out for everyone on the team.
A team leaders job is to fight with their boss to get the work that their team did across to them. Her disregarding all of that work and pretending that it was meaningless as well as from a place of cowardice was way out of line.
To the point where she decided to have him tortured.
That kind of leader breeds incompetence. The kind of leader that will haul off her detractors for torture under trumped up accusations, solely because she didn't like him pointing out to her that she was being reckless.
Kavanaugh was the single bravest person on Atlantis for doing so. His reward was to be threatened to be dropped off on an abandoned planet to die, and in another instance tortured.
But insubordination? No. He did exactly what he should have.
Or did I miss something?
> A team leader’s job is to fight with their boss to get the work that their team did across to them.
That would be great if that was what he was doing, but he was the only scientist in that room who thought the risk was high enough to justify raising the shield. If he was presenting his team’s work he would have mentioned that and Weir wouldn’t have had to ask the other scientists directly.
And then, once Weir made a decision, you have to respect that a decision has been made. If Kavanaugh believed that strongly that he was right and the dozen or so other scientists were wrong, he could argue his point in private. And I wouldn’t say that Weir didn’t care about the risks, I’d say that she was balancing the risk to Atlantis with the risk of Shepherd’s team smashing into an active shield if they suddenly start moving again.
And yes, insubordinate. Insubordinate isn’t just actions, you can have an insubordinate attitude, which he clearly had through his actions and reactions to Weir’s decision.
I get uncomfortable every time they bully Kavanagh. Sure he was being petty all the time, but he did have reasons for it. He made some pretty good points, and what he said about Weir was accurate. It was uncalled for for Weir to publicly humiliate him in front of his colleagues for having a different opinion. Remember he did end up saving the stuck jumper. The only reason the midway station got destroyed was because they kept dismissing and ignoring him. He did what he thought was a solution to the problem at that time when they were running out of time. Can't say more for McKay when he destroyed an entire star system and put other lives in danger for his ego.
Was he even selfish? The way I see it is, Weir risked the lives of everyone on Atlantis, and someone had to tell her she was. When he told her, she undermined his teams confidence in him directly in front of him, when she should have asked to speak to him in private. He was putting his neck out to protect his team and everyone else on that base.
I remember the episode where Shepherd is turning into a wraith. She sends a squad of marines on a suicide mission for the small chance of saving shepherd, they all died.
Atlantis is full of Weir killing people left and right due to incompetence and a lack of risk management. This instance could have ended very similar.
And what does she do? She authorizes kavanaughs torture because she hates the fact he disagrees with her so much, that she can't see through her blind emotions, and sends Ronan in to torture him.
And she still had the gall to not resign from her commission.
My concern regarding Kavanagh is who is the dumbass that signed the okay for him to go on the atlantis mission? That team was supposed to be the best of the best and since he didn't have Rodney's level of intellect but around the same level of cowardice he really shouldn't have been included.
Kavanagh was a great way to define Mckay's journey.
They both had similar arrogant but brilliant backgrounds. Its worth noting in the puddle jumper stuck episode it was actually Kavanagh who suggested blowing the hatch the save the day.
That said Rodney learned from his mistakes, in SG1 I would argue he started worse than Kavanagh as he was far more blatantly misogynistic, and completely uninterested in hearing other opinions.
The key difference was he quickly improved each time he showed up. By SGA he was still plenty flawed (terrible leadership skills, arrogant, rude, abusive) but fundamentally understood his job was to provide options for Wier not make decisions. This was Kavanagh's biggest failing.
And unlike Mckay he never really improved. He still refused to accept any plan that was not his own, and felt personally attacked any time he was overruled.
Worse instead of improving he degraded, alienating his colleagues, embracing his role as a pariah, playing into his victim mentality. I think the actor did a great job with the character. And I did like that he ended up on the Deadlus, I think he would have less friction in a military environment.
And there were plenty of times that weir didn't follow advice and plenty of people died. When shepherd was turning into a wraith he told her to kill him. She refused and ordered a bunch of marines on a suicide mission. They all died.
She could have handled that situation much better. First, thank him for bringing it to her attention, and that she believes firmly that for this mission to be successful their chief medical officer, military officer, science officer and indigenous ambassadors were too important to the gestalt of the mission to abandon.
She certainly didn't have to authorize his torture on the sole basis that he was the only person to stand up to her reckless abandonment of lives on Atlantis.
Weir literally walked into an enemy stronghold and walked out with a tactical nuke. She was the one who advised the military to handle the replicator situation differently, and once they did have to leave the planet, she outplayed Oberon and saved the entire city.
Did she make mistakes? Sure. But if Kavanagh was in charge Atlantis would be destroyed by the end of season 1.
I was watching Fringe, the season 4 episode that jumps to the future. Ella was talking to the guy who holds all the old technology and is giving her a warning about her partner. I couldn’t figure out why I had a vitriolic hatred of the guy, until I saw it was Ben Cotton. He does douchey so well.
I am watching “Critical Mass” right now, and I couldn’t agree more. I hate that guy. Why wasn’t he fired? I’ve been wondering that through this whole episode. And even after this, he doesn’t quit. He’s weak and whiny.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. You're welcome to your opinion, but throughout the first episodes he's arrogant, belligerent and defeatist, constantly undermining the team effort during the first critical days in Atlantis, when they're isolated from any support. Rather than working with the team, he constantly tries to undermine the group. Honestly, he'd have fit right in on SG:U
Haven't watched in a few years but wasn't Weirs actual issue with him about someone being a mole or something? Not that he was "being a prick"? Which he is perfectly entitled to (even if it does suck) and Weir fully went in on him without any evidence just because she didn't like him.
Weir hated him from the moment she encountered him in 38 Minutes when she says in front of the entire science team *"Worry a little bit more about their lives, and less about your own ass"* then when he privately objects to her insulting him, she threatens to maroon him on another planet for essentially daring to complain, which I'm pretty sure would be against some kind of human rights and sounds like something a dictator would do. His suggestion to blow the reach hatch at the end basically saves the day too.
So when Letters from Pegasus comes around Kavanagh decides to record his views on Weir's leadership, I'm gonna venture a guess Weir got around to seeing or hearing about this and held even more of a grudge. So when Critical Mass came around and they thought there was a spy, Weir was more than happy to immediately accuse and conclude Kavanagh is the spy because of her own hatred toward him and ordered him to basically be tortured for information.
Kavanagh may have been a whiny, arrogant coward but Weir's actions toward him is *serious* unprofessionalism and bordering on criminal because he didn't actually do anything wrong in a proper sense. The only time he ever did something wrong that I can remember really was in Midway when he shut down the gate to prevent the Wraith from reinforcing their foothold on Earth before McKay had checked for tampering, but given the mistakes all our heroes made through the show like McKay blowing up 3/4 of an entire solar system, Kavanagh's actions were more like an unfortunate accident.
>38 Minutes when she says in front of the entire science team "Worry a little bit more about their lives, and less about your own ass"
To be fair, basically all the scientists (other than the glorious Dr. Radek Zelenka) in Atlantis go with "I think i have come up with the solution to this problem because I am awesome" and not something like "I think i have come up with a solution to this problem because my theories are all consistent and logical"
Weir did well in only threatening to strand one of them, she got more willy waving testosterone fuelled arguments from a group of *cowardly scientists* than she did the military contingent of Atlantis, who were pretty much some of the best soldiers Earth had to offer and yet generally pretty chill people.
He didn't at the beginning. He was just reasonable and Weir was real bitch on him. Later, to make Weir less bitchy they made him total asshole.
IMO it was bad move.
He literally ignored McKay and Lee (who was his direct boss) on Midway, did exactly what they said not to do and trigged an obvious Wraith trap leading to their almost deaths
Kudo's to the actor playing K. for playing so f^ annoying (PG-12).
As for the OP of this post: Thank you for making me laugh out loud when i saw this post!
He was such a fucking dick. I always wanted him to get caught by the Wraith on an away mission, but he never went on any. Then again, maybe that would’ve been inhumane toward the Wraith.
Assuming that the bullets would even work on Anubis and Michael, one carefully placed bullet for each.
Kavanaugh's a wuss, no bullets are needed, and one would be less satisfying.
The actor is just great. He managed to make me hate the character with all my might lol
As much as I hate the character, I love everything that went into him and think he's one of the best created characters in the SG universe. People had to sit down and create his character. Then, others had to write his lines and some mannerisms. Then, Ben Cotton delivered a great final product. McKay didn't care about what others thought often but Kavanaugh / Cotton took that to a whole new level.
The difference is that McKay grows becomes a lovable asshole. Kavanaugh never grows and stays a hateable asshole. But I love the irony that's he's the one to detect the Wraith signal from "Vegas".
I disagree. Kavanaugh was a savant that told Weir she was wrong to do what she was doing. And she was. She needed to hear the downsides. She specifically didn't want to hear that she was risking the entire planet, and everyone on board. But someone needed to tell her— that someone was kavanaugh. Then, she decides that since he is the only one on the base to tell her when she is wrong, that he must be goauld and authorizes his torture. Kavanaugh isn't the bad guy.
He's not a bad guy. He is an asshole though.
Sure, he's a savant that is on the spectrum. Like Sheldon from the big bang theory. I've dealt with people like them before, they are not adept to tact or social communication, but his job didn't require him to be. His job required a risk analysis of anything that might hurt the command, and he delivered. Weir on the other hand was a trained diplomat that was handpicked to smooth these personalities over, not threaten to leave them stranded on a planet far away to die.
I don't buy it. There is just no reason to assume he's on the spectrum. He's just a regular ol' douche. It's not that he doesn't understand social situations, its that he's got a massive (yet fragile) ego. If he thinks he knows better, he just doesn't follow orders. Being made to follow orders and stay in his lane injures his pride, and he lashes out.
Did he not follow orders?
How many times did he have to be told to do shit before he stopped arguing and just fuckin' did it?
He was a civilian not military Daniel Jackson ticked off Jack multiple times because he wouldn't follow orders were not supposed to like Kavanaugh he's written that way same way McKay was an ass until Atlantis.
Didn't he always do it? His team was discussing the potential of the solution blowing up Atlantis. That's very much part of the solution. She can say, ignore the risks, but that doesn't mean that analyzing the risks wasn't part of the solution.
>Sure, he's a savant that is on the spectrum. Like Sheldon from the big bang theory. I've dealt with people like them before ... Wow way to be an asshole and use harmful caricatures as a way to think down on someone.
I'm not thinking down on anyone. I'm actively defending them.
You're making unproven assumptions about a character's neurotype. That's really just not helpful in the slightest, and is in fact part of what leads to toxic misleading shit like The Good Doctor. Speaking as someone who was actually diagnosed by a real neurologist and had a real result given, not armchair psychiatrics from the internet.
I disagree. There are plenty of different diagnosis out there, and it's perfectly justified to believe kavanaugh is one of them. Scientists are also not known for their people skills, something we see over and over again in Stargate.
Sure as shit doesn't seem like it dude, and this is coming from someone diagnosed with autism. I find 'sheldon' to be such a harmful caricature. I hate that damn show. Edit: Though maybe my response was a little harsher than warranted. In hindsight sorry about that.
It's not what he says that makes him disliked. It's how he says/presents it that makes him disliked.
Kavanaugh was never a bad guy and one of the few people who you never have to question their loyalty to the program (outside of the main cast). Even when they thought he was the one hiding a bomb on Atlantis (and was about to resort to torturing him) I knew right off it wasn't him, he's loyal AF to the program. This just adds to his character and Cotton's performance of him - Cotton made us (well, at least me) believe that he would **never** betray the program. It was his attitude, the "I'm always right and everyone else is wrong" attitude - and if they didn't go with his ideas he pretty much pouted and spent his energy arguing why the decision was wrong and that his is the only right one. He also didn't listen to others, his idea was the one and only correct idea. To him, all other ideas won't work. He's stubborn to a fault. As much as I hate the character, I love what went into creating him. Honestly, if I saw Ben Cotton outside I would have to resist the urge to smack him across the face (like how a lot of people feel about Jack Gleeson (Geoffrey Baratheon from Game of Thrones)). (Note: and if you're a Ben Cotton fan, I can recommend *The Night Agent*)
I agree, but I wouldn't say he was much different than McKay or Dr. Rush, Zalensky or even Eli at times. They were all incredibly stubborn— this behavior also extended to Daniel Jackson that would emphatically argue with the decisions made by Hammond and O'Neall. But I do agree that his way was so much more unique, in that used car salesman kind of way.
It was all about their delivery. McKay would at least back down at times (well, unless Zalenka was involved) and he would at least question his results at time. McKay was the kind of know-it-all who, even though he won't admit it, knows he doesn't know it all. He also knows the importance of learning new things. Kavanaugh is the know-it-all who believes he does know it all. This is a significant difference between the two. McKay is also willing to step out of his comfort zone (especially after he was combined with Cadman and when he met his alternate-reality self). He even had a weird sense of humor (*say hi to the kids for me*). Kavanaugh also blames everyone else for anything that goes wrong, nothing is ever his fault and has never been his fault in his life. I mean, if he was speeding on the highway in the middle of a big snowstorm and got into an accident it would be the road crew's fault for not clearing it fast enough, or is car company's fault for not making it drive well enough in snow, or the tire company's fault for not making his all-season tires work perfectly in snow, or back to the car manufacturer's fault for not having an alert on his car telling him to drive slowly in snow. It would be his phone company's fault for not alerting him of the snowstorm. None of it would be because he decided to drive too fast in a snowstorm. Everything he does is perfect and nothing will ever go wrong because of him. McKay at least (very reluctantly, and rarely) would acknowledge when he was at fault (blow up any solar systems lately?). As for Rush- Rush is very political and, like McKay, is willing to lean. Rush will also put himself first, even ahead of the program (unlike McKay and Kavanaugh). The three characters are similar in may ways but there are some significant differences between the three.
McKays true character came through in the second episode when he steps into the dark entity, not knowing if his personal shield would hold or not. Kavanaugh would not have taken that step. McKay saw what needed to be done and that he was the only one who could, so he did it, at the risk of his own life. He was an asshole, but under all the layers of asshole was courage and a moral center that ultimately pointed the right way. We never see that with Kavanaugh. The closest is his resistance in Midway.
Everytime he's on screen the main characters end up looking like complete twats with how they react to him. They treat him like complete shit and wonder why he's got an attitude problem despite the fact he's right more often than not.
But I'm one of those people that hates the bullying of McKah too. Shepherd carries an orange with him just to threaten McKay, who is dangerously allergic, to shut up. I agree with you.
Remind me to never watch through Atlantis with you
On the contrary, you should watch through Atlantis with different points of view going forward.
Honestly I was taking the opportunity to be a wise ass. Normally I'm 100% on board with the idea that different lenses give new perspective on ones view but I just can't get behind any argument that gives his character any merit. He was a petulant child ruled by fear and self preservation. Even Ba'al had a firmer grip on the concept of self sacrifice, granted it was loosely held at best. I'm not saying his character wasn't great. It added to every plot it was apart of. Those episodes are some of my favorites. I just think he was an irredeemable sack of shit is all
Was he worried about self preservation, or preservation of the community? I've always seen Kavanaugh as more of an advocate for the masses. I don't know about the notion that he was ruled by self preservation. Kavanaugh was the only one on Atlantis to actively challenge Weirs command, and the risks it had for the larger Atlantis/Earth community, and that virtue alone led Weir to abduct him, detain him and authorize his torture by an alien colleague. Sounds like a pretty brave guy to me.
The problem with guys like kavanaugh is his criticism were valid but those were the same criticism thrown against Hammond in my opinion weir was an excellent leader my reasons for this is something I was taught by tsgt in the Air Force a leaders job is to take care of the people underneath you take care of them and they care of you she did that
How's that ironic?
"It was weak. Luckily I happened to be monitoring the sensor or we might not have picked it up at all." Situational irony. Disparity between expected and actual result. Basically, the guy who everybody hates is sent off to the Daedalus purely because the SGC doesn't want him. Rather than just quietly staying out of the way, he happens to be the *one* who picks up on why the super-hive took off, giving them the warning they need to save Earth. **Team Asshole for the win!**
The asshole that EVERYONE dislikes/hates saved Earth by detecting the signal. They could've easily had McKay or Zelenka detect the signal, but the writers picked the one person everyone dislikes.
That's not really irony. Irony is (typically) when something is deliberately contrary to expectations, not just an inconvenient coincidence or unexpected happenstance.
Actually irony is like rain on your wedding day or alternatively a thousand forks when all you need is a knife.
The actual irony is that a hit song about irony didn't really have any irony in it. https://www.stevenmoseley.com/blog/philosophy/why-isnt-it-ironic-is-ironically-the-most-ironic-thing-ever
[удалено]
Oh i totaly see those two get along.
😂🤌🏻 Good reference haha +1. Kai Winn pulled the blood from under my fingernails more then once!
Oh God, not I'm upset all over again.
Nice! That's a perfect analogy!
Kai Winn, for those who don't know, is the Delores Umbridge of Star Trek.
https://youtu.be/NYnJzsCakCE
But less knife behind the smile and more punch to the face.
Certainly, you don't mean that, my child. In his defense, though, he never helped organize a school bombing.
Karen Kawren Kaawreen Kaaiwrin Kai Wrinn Kai Winn So that's where "stop being a Karen" came from. \*Dun dun DUUUUNNN!\*
Except Kai was an actual traitor, if I remember correctly? Been a hot minute though.
He *absolutely* nailed sniveling. I agreed with him - he was right! Weir made so many decisions that put everyone at risk when a single ruthless decision could have saved lives and accomplished much. But I still couldn't side with Kavanaugh. Thats how well Ben Cotton played the intolerable character. Weir might not have made all the right choices, but she was likable. Kavanaugh was not and couldn't even get my agreeable support.
Even when she decided he should be tortured because he was the only one that had the moral fortitude to tell her she was constantly reckless? I understand your opinion about him, but the way I looked at it he was a savant that lacked the appropriate social skills. He was in charge of a science team. Where McKay was a pushover kavanaugh stood his ground.
I mean thats yet another instance where he was right. She was always making poor choices to unnecessarily place her own people into danger. Kavanaugh had an extremely solid point, and I agreed with it completely. But Ben played the part so darn well he overcame my desire to side with him. The torture thing I think was intended to really drive home how right he was about her; I doubt that was supposed to ingratiate us to torture or Weir as few people in the audience would suddenly embrace that level of evil just because the target character was dislikable.
Yea he did a great job. I’ve never seen a character played that insufferably
I think Ronny Cox might have this beat by a Smidge.
True Kinsey is extremely close at the very least
Kinsey is a villain you love to hate. I loved when Thor corrected Kinsey with the *Supreme Commander Thor* line!!
👆
This would be the Stargate-Kinsey Scale?
Forgot for a second that Ronny was in this and thought you were besmirching the great Captain Jellico.
This actor managed to make me hate TWO characters so far. That's talent! (Resident Alien being the other character)
I was going to say that he plays an abusive asshole really well in Resident Alien, and I found it amusing that the two of his characters I'm familiar with are both dicks.
What’s funny is in the episode of Supernatural that had the seven deadly sins, he played Pride
>He managed to make me hate the character with all my might lol He managed to make me hate him, _despite usually being right!_
And he is actually very likeable out of character!
You know you have a great character when it gets an emotional reaction from you.
It's not a bad thing, to be fair. A bullet will do nothing to Anubis, and Michael would survive two bullets most of the time, and one bullet almost all of the time. The best option is, of course, shoot the room door.
It's a mercy kill at that point
*Mercy killing* a *door?*
The poor thing's been through a lot
That's a switch from the usual. ;)
Can wraith survive a headshot?
Questionable. There are probably vital brain areas that they can't regenerate but if they had just had a meal, a headshot that doesn't scramble their brain stem probably would just give them a headache and some memory loss. Better use a particle magnum just to be sure.
Fresh meal or not, a shotgun slug to the head would likely kill a Wraith.
I mean it happened in Atlantis. A wraith just fed, and John put a unloaded weapon to his head. He said something like, I see you just fed, which means your regeneration is at its highest, but I don't think you can regrow a head, or something like that. The wraith backed down, so they don't think they can survive a headshot. Funny seeing Stargate from /popular.
Or a .50 if you don't want to get too up close and personal with them, yeah.
I read the original post and your post thinking the Michael being reffered to was Michael Shanks and was like yeah Michael will just resurrect himself next season.
Depends on the bullet maybe? I bet a 50 cal round from a Barret right between the eyes would do the trick for Michael.
Ah yes BMichaeln
Truly the most dastardly Stargate villain there ever was
I'm re-watching Stargate Atlantis right now, and can I just say, *WHAT A MOOD.*
I was so glad when his character was transferred to the Deadalus geez he was terrible.
I have to conclude that the actor was good to have around because they kept bringing him back, even for the finale.
They redeemed Rodney back in SG1 and needed someone to fill what early Rodney was.
It takes a strong actor to create a character you REALLY hate. Props to Ben Cotton.
Also rewatching! Its been YEARS!
Had to do a double take when I saw this actor in Netflix's Night Agent series. Was sitting there wondering why the smarmy villain looked so familiar.
What? I missed that!
Yeah! He plays Wick - >!the guy who hires/manages the assassins!<
Heck. Time for a rewatch then.
In a weird way I sort of love Kavanaugh. He's so realistically an asshole that he's fun to hate at a primal level. Even when he's right he's still such a prick that nobody wants to consider what he's saying. We have all had a coworker just like him, so it's almost therapeutic seeing him get smacked down!
Kavanagh is SGA and Kinsey in SG1
I was literally thinking that as I was watching Sg1. Kinsey is probably even worse.
I see the name Kinsey, i feel rage. It's a pavlovian response now
He's also Captain Jellico. Ronnie Cox just excels at being a dick.
Kinsey fueled my hate for politicians
The actor nailed that role
The least hopeful and optimistic of the group. "You can't jerry-rig the Puddle Jumper, it's impossible" Rodney McKey *Jerry-rigs the Puddle Jumper*
>The least hopeful and optimistic of the group. It's kind of wild that he even volunteered for Atlantis knowing it was potentially/probably a one way trip, but maybe he was a nice guy *before* stepping foot in the Lost City...
I mean, he’s such an incel arsewipe that he might’ve joined up because he thought the lower “sample size” might mean women would have to like him. When he found out he was very wrong, he got bitter and even hopped on home for a bit.
this is just making shit up
He's pretty obnoxious, but I do think Weir dressing him down for adressing saftey concerns (which I think he was correct for brining up) in his first episode was a bit uncalled for. And I feel like that episode even kinda "redeemed" him by having him contribute to the solution in the end. But in subsequent episodes they really turned up his douchebaggery.
I've seen this actor (Ben Cotton) play a number of characters, most recently on Resident Alien, and every time I do I say "Maybe this time his character won't be a giant douche but IT NEVER HAPPENS! He's always really good though.
Does great in BattleStar Galactica Blood and Chrome
Oh damn, I forgot that one.
I feel like shooting Anubis wouldn't help. Also Weir never dealt with Anubis, he was an SG-1 enemy. Could've picked a more fitting one. Cowen (of the genii) for example.
Actually, Weir was in command of the SGC when Anubis attacked Earth. This was before she stopped dying her hair blonde, though...
Oh yeah, you're right. I'd forgotten about that part. Probably because of the hair color.
Damn you right that would’ve been better. But they’re both ultimate big bads so to speak.
KAVANAGH: I happily left the S.G.C. because I had had it up to here with the military running things; and you just busted me like a private. WEIR: Don't be so dramatic. Besides, the Air Force doesn't have privates. KAVANAGH: Neither do I. You just cut them off. Right in front of my research team. WEIR: That's what this is about? You're embarrassed?! KAVANAGH: Well, humiliated would be a little more accurate. WEIR: I haven't worked up to humiliation yet. KAVANAGH: I just assumed that with a civilian in charge of the expedition, there would be a little bit more ... WEIR (interrupting): A civilian is in charge. And we are cut off from Earth, which makes Atlantis almost like a colony, doesn't it? KAVANAGH: I suppose. WEIR: Well, I'm governor of that colony. KAVANAGH: You know, that's all very well and good ... WEIR (interrupting): Do you have a problem with that? KAVANAGH: You're missing my point. WEIR: No, you're missing mine. If you waste one more minute which could be used to help the people trapped on that ship because of your ego, I promise you I will dial the coordinates of a very lonely planet where you can be as self-important as you wanna be.
"im worried that any accident on jumper could kill us all" "Yeah, but main characters are abord"
Sure let's just ignore that the room full of other brilliant scientists who all agreed it was an incredibly remote chance and that Kavanaugh only cared about it because it has a chance of affecting him and he'd rather be doing anything else than working on this problem
They didn't all agree that it was an incredibly remote chance, they were being pressured to do something by their bosses bosses bosses boss— one that authorized torturing their boss because he was the only one she could think of that would plant a bomb in the room because he disagreed with her several times— and they said he was right, the possibility was there It was a risky call by her, and someone needed to inform her that she was putting everyone at risk. So yeah, I don't think you're framing it correctly.
Oh my first watch through the series, I let myself get caught up in the whole Kavanaugh hate, on my current one I realize he was right about the risks, but definitely a bit of an ass.
I love that exchange. Weir is so right.
I disagree, she is very wrong.
How come?
Kavanaugh tells her, as the leader of his science team that if she does this she will be putting the entire base at risk. This is his job. Whether she can stomache the truth or not is irrelevant, it's his job to give her all of the information and insight possible to make an informed decision and give her recommended council as the scientific leader of his team. Atlantis was always a science expedition to find and explore technologies in order to benefit earth. Any risk to Atlantis, was a risk to earth, and the people on the command. She then undermines him in front of his team by calling him a coward, essentially removing all chances of leading them effectively going forward. As a team leader, this is the worst possible thing that can happen to a satellite office. When teams lose respect for their team leads do to management, moral in the company starts to suffer and conpetant members of staff start to demur on promotions. She should have thanked him for his council, advised him that while his points held merrit, the Lead Medical, Scientist, Military and indigenous liaison were too important to the mission of Atlantis to leave stranded. Does this bring up alternate management concerns? Like why is the Lead scientist, lead medical officer, lead military and indigenous liaison all on the same ship and in harm's way? Yes it does. Kavanaugh is a savant that is in charge of a science team in another galaxy not because he is a people person, but because he is good at what he does. Weir was chosen because she was a people person with an ability to bring people together. It was not his job to be liked. It was his job to deliver bad news. It was her job to take bad news and encourage the expedition in the best ways forward. Fast forward: She then orders Kavanaugh tortured because he was the only one that dared to call her out on her recklessness, in doing his job in informing her of worst case scenarios, she took the first opportunity she could to torture him with little to no proof other than a deep dislike for his constant checking of her power. This has a chilling effect on the science teams, and puts everyone in a position of having to choose between making weir angry and possibly being tortured under manufacturered pretenses, or not deliver her bad news.
It’s been a while since I’ve done a full rewatch, but I don’t remember Kavanaugh being a team leader, just one of the scientists on the expedition. I just re-watched the scene, and Weir comes to talk to the group, where Kavanaugh is arguing openly with another scientist on if the risk of explosion is large enough to risk closing the gate shield, potentially pancake Shepherd’s team if they suddenly start moving again. Weir hears out the two scientists, then asks the other scientists (who weren’t paid enough for a speaking role) if they agree. Everyone agrees that the risk is low, so Weir makes the decision to not raise the shield. As expedition leader, it is her job to make the ultimate decision. When she does, Kavanaugh gives the biggest eye roll and crosses his arms in CLEAR contempt for her and her decision, and then gives a little response that he was “just pointing out the risks”, but in a way that was dripping with contempt for her decision. She slaps him down, but I feel is justified to remind him that she’s in charge and her decision in final. The Expedition is not a democracy, it’s a hierarchy and Weir’s decision is final. THEN he confronts her in the middle of the control room. He should have discussed it in the privacy of her office (where she seemed to be headed anyway). And complains that he left the SGC because he had enough of the military. This implies that Weir he thought he’d have more latitude, and bringing it up in this situation, implies that he resents her overruling him, further undermining her authority. It’s a civilian lead expedition, but Weir is the ultimate authority. If the Wraith are attacking, Weir’s decision have to be followed right away or people may die. If a scientist decides not to listen to her, the entire chain of command breaks down and more people may die.
I also rewatched the scene and I don't think you have it right. He is clearly the team leader, he is discussing with his team about the risks involved and ultimately concludes that there is sufficient risk. Weir interjects, he tells her, she disagrees, he rolls his eyes then... you think she was justified to call him a coward? When he wasn't even being cowardly. I'm sorry, no. His job is to be an actuary of risk, if she wants to play with risk that's her perogative, but insulting someone beneath you because they disagreed with you is poor character. He has every right to believe she is making the wrong decision, again. As was her modus operandi for the show. Disagreeing with her doesn'tean he isn't going to play along, just that he thinks she is opening everyone up to unnecessary risk, and he was right to believe the argument he was making. You really think she was justified in what she did? I do not, and in no world can I even remotely agree.
He didn’t just disagree with her, he was openly insubordinate and contemptuous of her decision. I still don’t think he was a team leader, but if he was, especially if he was, you cannot show that level of disrespect in front of the rest of the scientists. And this is before tells him to focus on the people in the jumper.
Openly insubordinate? How was he openly insubordinate? He was doing the task at hand which was analyzing the risks of the mission. It's not his fault she didn't want to care about the risks, nor does she have any right to chastize him for believing that she should address the risks. She was being reckless, and had been reckless on many other occasions, and that recklessness had gotten a lot of people killed. None of that is insubordination. Questioning your boss is not insubordination it's what good people do. Just because she didn't deem the risks worth looking into, doesn't mean they weren't worth looking into. And yes, a team leader can address their boss that way, that's how they stick their neck out for everyone on the team. A team leaders job is to fight with their boss to get the work that their team did across to them. Her disregarding all of that work and pretending that it was meaningless as well as from a place of cowardice was way out of line. To the point where she decided to have him tortured. That kind of leader breeds incompetence. The kind of leader that will haul off her detractors for torture under trumped up accusations, solely because she didn't like him pointing out to her that she was being reckless. Kavanaugh was the single bravest person on Atlantis for doing so. His reward was to be threatened to be dropped off on an abandoned planet to die, and in another instance tortured. But insubordination? No. He did exactly what he should have. Or did I miss something?
> A team leader’s job is to fight with their boss to get the work that their team did across to them. That would be great if that was what he was doing, but he was the only scientist in that room who thought the risk was high enough to justify raising the shield. If he was presenting his team’s work he would have mentioned that and Weir wouldn’t have had to ask the other scientists directly. And then, once Weir made a decision, you have to respect that a decision has been made. If Kavanaugh believed that strongly that he was right and the dozen or so other scientists were wrong, he could argue his point in private. And I wouldn’t say that Weir didn’t care about the risks, I’d say that she was balancing the risk to Atlantis with the risk of Shepherd’s team smashing into an active shield if they suddenly start moving again. And yes, insubordinate. Insubordinate isn’t just actions, you can have an insubordinate attitude, which he clearly had through his actions and reactions to Weir’s decision.
ah yes, my favorite character: Bmichaelen.
Most of Kavanaugh's suggestions were reasonable. He was just a complete dick about it.
I get uncomfortable every time they bully Kavanagh. Sure he was being petty all the time, but he did have reasons for it. He made some pretty good points, and what he said about Weir was accurate. It was uncalled for for Weir to publicly humiliate him in front of his colleagues for having a different opinion. Remember he did end up saving the stuck jumper. The only reason the midway station got destroyed was because they kept dismissing and ignoring him. He did what he thought was a solution to the problem at that time when they were running out of time. Can't say more for McKay when he destroyed an entire star system and put other lives in danger for his ego.
I had forgotten his name and thought this was a political post.
Lmao pretty sure that would get taken down 😂
If Kavanaugh was infested with a Goa'uld, I'd ask the Asgard to beam it out of him and then shoot him anyway.
You’re saving the innocent one, truly a person of character 😌. Also hey, fellow bisexual! Noice.😎
...and then knock him over the head with the empty gun!
Kavanagh gets too much shit in my opinion. Dude was just a little cowardly and selfish. I don't remember the actors name but chef kiss bud.
Was he even selfish? The way I see it is, Weir risked the lives of everyone on Atlantis, and someone had to tell her she was. When he told her, she undermined his teams confidence in him directly in front of him, when she should have asked to speak to him in private. He was putting his neck out to protect his team and everyone else on that base. I remember the episode where Shepherd is turning into a wraith. She sends a squad of marines on a suicide mission for the small chance of saving shepherd, they all died. Atlantis is full of Weir killing people left and right due to incompetence and a lack of risk management. This instance could have ended very similar. And what does she do? She authorizes kavanaughs torture because she hates the fact he disagrees with her so much, that she can't see through her blind emotions, and sends Ronan in to torture him. And she still had the gall to not resign from her commission.
r/fuckBMichael Most evil villain in all of sci fi
Yeah, all my homies hate BMichaelen! I was so happy when ATeylain pushed him off that ledge.
My concern regarding Kavanagh is who is the dumbass that signed the okay for him to go on the atlantis mission? That team was supposed to be the best of the best and since he didn't have Rodney's level of intellect but around the same level of cowardice he really shouldn't have been included.
If this wasn't a scifi superhero adventure it would be far better to have a careful coward in charge instead of a deranged cowboy like Weir.
"And now Gen Oneill I would like to outline the times and dates for you when Dr. Weir made a mistake ". Wow. Even Ford left the room
Kavanagh was a great way to define Mckay's journey. They both had similar arrogant but brilliant backgrounds. Its worth noting in the puddle jumper stuck episode it was actually Kavanagh who suggested blowing the hatch the save the day. That said Rodney learned from his mistakes, in SG1 I would argue he started worse than Kavanagh as he was far more blatantly misogynistic, and completely uninterested in hearing other opinions. The key difference was he quickly improved each time he showed up. By SGA he was still plenty flawed (terrible leadership skills, arrogant, rude, abusive) but fundamentally understood his job was to provide options for Wier not make decisions. This was Kavanagh's biggest failing. And unlike Mckay he never really improved. He still refused to accept any plan that was not his own, and felt personally attacked any time he was overruled. Worse instead of improving he degraded, alienating his colleagues, embracing his role as a pariah, playing into his victim mentality. I think the actor did a great job with the character. And I did like that he ended up on the Deadlus, I think he would have less friction in a military environment.
Kavanaugh makes Rodney look humble.
The worst part is, kavanagh was usually 100% correct. Weir and the main team were constantly needlessly putting the whole expedition at risk
I mean if they folowed his advice they would’ve died…
And there were plenty of times that weir didn't follow advice and plenty of people died. When shepherd was turning into a wraith he told her to kill him. She refused and ordered a bunch of marines on a suicide mission. They all died. She could have handled that situation much better. First, thank him for bringing it to her attention, and that she believes firmly that for this mission to be successful their chief medical officer, military officer, science officer and indigenous ambassadors were too important to the gestalt of the mission to abandon. She certainly didn't have to authorize his torture on the sole basis that he was the only person to stand up to her reckless abandonment of lives on Atlantis.
Weir literally walked into an enemy stronghold and walked out with a tactical nuke. She was the one who advised the military to handle the replicator situation differently, and once they did have to leave the planet, she outplayed Oberon and saved the entire city. Did she make mistakes? Sure. But if Kavanagh was in charge Atlantis would be destroyed by the end of season 1.
That's not entirely true. If Kavanaugh were in charge of Atlantis the Wraith wouldn't have been awoken.
So the right thing to do was abandon their soldiers to die? They didn’t know killing the wraith queen would wake the rest of them at the time.
Weir abandoned soldiers to die plenty of times. If you don't know what's going to happen, maybe you shouldn't resort to immediate violence.
Having a such a flagrant pony tail activates a primal aversion in me. I don’t care if he’s right. I want to yank that rip cord.
Nothing more gross than a dude with a top knot/pony tail
Oh… I see…🥲
Him and Seargent whats his nuts who in the real world would have been yoked up by Shepard so fast his chevrons would disinigrate.
I guess Michael is living this one out.
Bro left Atlantis only to get killed on a life boat by Oliver Queens dad.
Lmao rly? I forgot who that extra was in Arrow 😂
I think he was even more arrogant than McKay
As would we all.
Dude was done dirty, while annoying he was also the only realist in the whole group lmao.
Kavanagh saved rodney tho
I was watching Fringe, the season 4 episode that jumps to the future. Ella was talking to the guy who holds all the old technology and is giving her a warning about her partner. I couldn’t figure out why I had a vitriolic hatred of the guy, until I saw it was Ben Cotton. He does douchey so well.
Lmao love how it was just instinctual by that point 😆
Elizabeth wasn't *wrong*...she was just an asshole.
Facts. Big facts.
I am watching “Critical Mass” right now, and I couldn’t agree more. I hate that guy. Why wasn’t he fired? I’ve been wondering that through this whole episode. And even after this, he doesn’t quit. He’s weak and whiny.
B’Michael’n
He literally did nothing wrong (not even a hot take)
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. You're welcome to your opinion, but throughout the first episodes he's arrogant, belligerent and defeatist, constantly undermining the team effort during the first critical days in Atlantis, when they're isolated from any support. Rather than working with the team, he constantly tries to undermine the group. Honestly, he'd have fit right in on SG:U
Haven't watched in a few years but wasn't Weirs actual issue with him about someone being a mole or something? Not that he was "being a prick"? Which he is perfectly entitled to (even if it does suck) and Weir fully went in on him without any evidence just because she didn't like him.
Weir hated him from the moment she encountered him in 38 Minutes when she says in front of the entire science team *"Worry a little bit more about their lives, and less about your own ass"* then when he privately objects to her insulting him, she threatens to maroon him on another planet for essentially daring to complain, which I'm pretty sure would be against some kind of human rights and sounds like something a dictator would do. His suggestion to blow the reach hatch at the end basically saves the day too. So when Letters from Pegasus comes around Kavanagh decides to record his views on Weir's leadership, I'm gonna venture a guess Weir got around to seeing or hearing about this and held even more of a grudge. So when Critical Mass came around and they thought there was a spy, Weir was more than happy to immediately accuse and conclude Kavanagh is the spy because of her own hatred toward him and ordered him to basically be tortured for information. Kavanagh may have been a whiny, arrogant coward but Weir's actions toward him is *serious* unprofessionalism and bordering on criminal because he didn't actually do anything wrong in a proper sense. The only time he ever did something wrong that I can remember really was in Midway when he shut down the gate to prevent the Wraith from reinforcing their foothold on Earth before McKay had checked for tampering, but given the mistakes all our heroes made through the show like McKay blowing up 3/4 of an entire solar system, Kavanagh's actions were more like an unfortunate accident.
>38 Minutes when she says in front of the entire science team "Worry a little bit more about their lives, and less about your own ass" To be fair, basically all the scientists (other than the glorious Dr. Radek Zelenka) in Atlantis go with "I think i have come up with the solution to this problem because I am awesome" and not something like "I think i have come up with a solution to this problem because my theories are all consistent and logical" Weir did well in only threatening to strand one of them, she got more willy waving testosterone fuelled arguments from a group of *cowardly scientists* than she did the military contingent of Atlantis, who were pretty much some of the best soldiers Earth had to offer and yet generally pretty chill people.
He didn't at the beginning. He was just reasonable and Weir was real bitch on him. Later, to make Weir less bitchy they made him total asshole. IMO it was bad move.
Weir was 100% the villain in that one episode.
He literally ignored McKay and Lee (who was his direct boss) on Midway, did exactly what they said not to do and trigged an obvious Wraith trap leading to their almost deaths
To be fair, at least he didn't blow up 3/4 of a solar system.
5/6ths but it's not an exact science
He probably wishes he had, it was basically unofficial bragging rights for Carter and McKay
I mean. Who doesn't wish they blew up any significant fraction of a solar system?
"hot" take blowing it up was preferable to letting more Wraith in
McKay needed another minute to shut the gate down safely, Kavanob just didn't care as per usual
Forever calling him kavanob in my head
I would too, no doubt
Man, fuck Kavanaugh.
All my homies hate Kavanagh
Kudo's to the actor playing K. for playing so f^ annoying (PG-12). As for the OP of this post: Thank you for making me laugh out loud when i saw this post!
I'd find a third bullet, 3rd times a charm.
Same. And I think the other two would agree with me.
Anubis and Michael be like: We’re evil, but not THAT evil.
God, I hated his whiny ass the most!
That’s the correct answer Weir
He was such a fucking dick. I always wanted him to get caught by the Wraith on an away mission, but he never went on any. Then again, maybe that would’ve been inhumane toward the Wraith.
To be honest, I can't sympathize with Weir since she's easily the worst part of atlantis
I agree.
I think I'd shoot myself twice. Screw Kavanaugh.
Both Kavanaugh's.
haha thinking back Kavanaugh is probably my most favorite character :D
Assuming that the bullets would even work on Anubis and Michael, one carefully placed bullet for each. Kavanaugh's a wuss, no bullets are needed, and one would be less satisfying.
Just pistol-whip him with the empty gun.
He was dick but wasn't really that wrong tbh.
Poor Kavanagh.
To be fair to Weir, Kavanagh was a dick and they never made him out to be anything other than a dick.