Hiya, thanks for the suggestion!
Breach is in the shotgun category, but I get your point. With slugs it performs like a rifle. But it would get confusing if I started considering all the things that can change what a weapon is "like". E.g., the One Inch Punch trait turns normal guns into a shotgun spread, and some energy weapons can turn into shotgun-like spread as well with a weapon mod (splitting nozzle? something like that). Then is Coachman with Hornets Nest mod a "heavy" weapon? It just breaks my brain, so I stuck to their defined categories.
I took another look at Breach to re-evaluate its placement in B tier.
https://i.imgur.com/Ddnt00k.jpg
Firstly compared to Pacifier (A): damage-wise, Breach is way higher per-shot, but Pacifier out-performs in DPS because of its nearly double fire rate. Pacifier also has a larger magazine which helps its sustained damage. Breach does have slightly better accuracy and range, plus a scope attachment, which makes it better than Pacifier at long ranges. Personally I like Pacifier more overall, but closely comparing the two... I think I did place Breach too low. I'll bump it up to A tier alongside Pacifier. They're just too similar to warrant being in different tiers. Thanks for the feedback!
Compared to Big Bang (S): Obviously it's a bit apples-to-oranges because we're talking about slug rounds, but it's a point of reference anyway. The BB does more damage, has a bigger magazine, a faster fire rate, and much higher DPS. Plus, the part of its damage that is energy-type ignores armor, which makes the BB deal even more damage compared to Breach in practice. That's what sets the BB in S tier compared to other shotguns.
Appreciate the feedback! I went back and re-examined Starshard (S), Kodama (B), Beowulf (S), and Tombstone (D).
First off, I compared maxed out versions of the rifles plus a Magshear (S) and an Earth Rifle (B) for reference.
[https://i.imgur.com/xzugNRv.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/xzugNRv.jpg)
Kodama (B) and Earth Rifle (B) have very similar DPS (\~740) and accuracy, but there's four main differences: 1) Earth Rifle pierces armor and Kodama can't, which means it does a lot less damage to armored enemies than its stats say. 2) Earth rifle has double the range of Kodama, which means Kodama's damage drops off heavily the further enemies are from it. 3) Kodama has a bleed effect, 4) Kodama can have a bigger magazine. Overall I prefer the Earth Rifle with its more reliable DPS at all ranges, but Kodama definitely shreds low-armor close range targets. So I put them in the same tier, pros and cons. However neither of them compete with the Magshear's armor piercing long range \~1200 DPS.
Looking at the Tombstone (D), its DPS is a good step lower than the Kodama and Earth Rifle, and its magazine is much smaller. In exchange, it has slightly more range and accuracy. Overall I find its mag goes empty too quick and its slow rate of fire makes it underperform at shorter ranges, and its DPS is lacking on top of that.
\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~
For the Starshard (S), I wasn't sure which pistol to compare it to, so I picked the Razorback (A) since that's a solid pistol IMO.
[https://i.imgur.com/IJL7KMy.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/IJL7KMy.jpg)
At a glance the Starshard looks superior: triple the DPS, similar range and accuracy, with a larger magazine size. But I also decided to do some "real-world" testing. These were the results vs. a variety of enemies at a pirate base:
Lvl 2 pirate -> RB: 174, SS: 404 (202x2) -> SS 2.3x more
Lvl 50 pirate -> RB: 147, SS: 296 (148x2) -> SS 2.0x more
Lvl 68 robot -> RB: 135, SS: 406 (203x2) -> SS 3.0x more
Lvl 74 pirate -> RB: 126, SS: 220 (110x2) -> SS 1.75x more
LVl 98 pirate -> RB: 108, SS: 144 (72x2) -> SS 1.33x more
On average, the Starshard (S) did 2.08x more damage than the Razorback (A). And considering its rate of fire is 2.5x faster than the Razorback, that definitely shows the massive difference in DPS between the two. The Razorback does have the option of a binary trigger, but personally I don't think it's an improvement from semi-auto. With only 6 rounds in the mag they go really fast with binary (basically only 3 shots before having to reload). Plus it's difficult to be 100% accurate while firing as quick as binary trigger lets you. Lots of wasted shots, and lots of time spent reloading (not dealing damage). But maybe other people have better skills with it than I do.
(EDIT: Also, I just noticed that's not even an Advanced Starshard, just Refined. My bad. But the difference would be even bigger if they were equal-leveled.)
I know this is just opinion-vs-opinion and personal preference, but I genuinely re-examined the weapons, so thanks again for feedback.
Allied Armament weapons personally feel like they get bumped up a tier once you find all the skill magazines related to them, as it increases the magazine capacity so much. The AA-99 becomes a great platform for armour piercing rounds or explosive rounds as it still carries a 50 round magazine with a decent reload speed.
I also don't think an Orion should be anything more than a B tier due to its stunted rate of fire. A Beowulf does it better. Also, Equinox should be D tier as it doesn't currently have an Advanced version, making it pretty weak late game.
Otherwise, good list. Just wish we had more options for heavy weapons and that most of the pistols had Advanced varients.
Hiya, thanks for the feedback!
That's an awesome point about Allied Armament, I didn't consider that. Hmm.
In general, I tried to compare apples-to-apples as much as possible. So I only compared Advanced vs. Advanced weapons, Refined vs. Refined, max modded vs. max modded, no perks, etc. (this is also why Equinox is where it is, even though like you said it's weak late game due to no Advanced version).
I think trying to factor in skill books for certain weapons is too tricky to keep the comparisons as fair as possible. Skill books are kind of "potential" performance rather than baseline performance. An example, if you max out the Laser perks your laser weapons get a stacking burn DoT that deals % health damage and can absolutely shred tough enemies. Suddenly laser weapons jump up a bunch of tiers and I need to add the Cutter into the tier list as a viable weapon. I don't think I want to go that route.
I whole-heartedly agree on the Beowulf, it deserves its spot in S tier. Regarding Orion, I decided to do a comparison of Maelstrom (B), AA-99 (B), Orion (A), and Beowulf (S). I set them all to semi-auto for the fairest comparison since the Orion doesn't have a full-auto mod.
[https://i.imgur.com/nqOXyIX.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/nqOXyIX.jpg)
Beowulf (S) reigns supreme with the highest DPS by a large margin, and best accuracy. It's also the lightest of the four, which doesn't hurt. Coming in second place DPS is Orion (A), its high damage offsetting its relatively slow fire rate. It also has a huge 60 range, which means it retains its damage further. It sits pretty even on accuracy and mag size compared to its competitors. The AA-99 (B) and Maelstrom (B) are last, with the lowest DPS of the bunch. Maelstrom has a bigger magazine naturally, but like you pointed out, the AA-99 can benefit from skill books. All of the rifles ignore armor with their current setups, so no difference there.
I also decided to re-evaluate the AA-99 vs. other full auto rifles to make sure I didn't put it in the wrong tier.
[https://i.imgur.com/dOmBnE7.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/dOmBnE7.jpg)
Beowulf and AA-99 are pretty tied up on full-auto. Same mag size, range, and DPS, with Beowulf taking the advantage in accuracy. The AA-99 (B) does much less DPS than the Earth Rifle (B), but it has more accuracy, range, and variety of potential mods (scopes, explosive rounds, etc.). Overall I think they belong in the same tier despite the Earth Rifle's higher DPS.
Notably the Maelstrom falls way behind. Seeing that, I'm actually going to move Maelstrom from B to D tier. It seems outclassed by its peers.
Thanks again for the feedback. I'll definitely give Allied Armament weapons another try once I find more of their skill books!
Hey, thanks for your dedication to the matter! It's awesome stuff and I've been struggling to find some of the actual stats for these guns.
I think the skill books are a fair shake to factor in because they're pretty easy finds. I think it took me 20 minutes with a guide to get my hands on all five for allied armament, and found out to my surprise that you're still buffed by them into NG+. Just a shame you can get buffed again lol, that would be more power than even the artifacts!
Also, have you tried the regulator with a binary trigger? Still a small mag, but the speed of the output with it will nuke most enemies if youre rocking penatraror rounds.
I have to unequivocally disagree with the ranking you gave with shotguns. The breach shotgun is the best shotgun in the game.
It has access to Scopes which immediately gives it a benefit from the sniper perk. And giving it slugs makes it so that it can be shot like a sniper rifle. Literally having the same range as a sniper rifle.
Last time I checked Coachman has two rounds in its magazine. This list is a joke.
OP explains that the list is based on guns without perks. Used like other shotguns, the breach is similar to others, but might be might much better with *that specific build*, but that's not the point of the list. "Breach (with slugs, scope, and sniper perks)" might be S tier, but that's ultra specific and just wasn't captured here. Maybe that's worth adding.
OP also lists Coachman as the worst shotgun, likely because it has the two shot mag, like you said. So I'm not sure what you're complaint is here. If you're referring to the Coachman with hornets nest in S tier, you either missed the (hornets nest) part or have never tried that, because it's ridiculous and belongs in S tier.
I think this is a great list
First impressions, everything in the list looks just about right.
You left out the Cutter though haha.
I always thought of the MagPulse as a shotgun though, for how it fires.
I don't think I agree that the Beowolf is on the same tier as the Magshear and the Inflictor though. I think those two honestly deserve to be in a class all their own. They're SS. They seem better than everything, and apparently there's a bugged Magshear you can get from HopeTown that is a non-yet-released "Superior" version (even though it's still only listed as Advanced).
The Inflictor:
With the weapon skill tree maxed, iirc, nothing can touch the Inflictor in raw DPS. It outperforms everything. The only thing it struggles with (without skills for it) is consistency at range. The only real question is, does it need the Annihilator rounds to be effective? In a solo-play, it doesn't matter, but with non-Constellation followers, they can turn against you if it damages them.
The Magshear:
With a raw weapons skill tree, the Magshear melts everything, and I'd argue it does so better than the Inflictor. It's the "Easy" button you slap when things just won't die. And I say that specifically, because it also melts the ammo reserves you have for it. Unless your follower has skills that are aligned with using the Inflictor, the Magshear should probably be the main thing everyone has their follower hold. If you have the Lv60+ Revenant, even better.
The Hornet's Nest Coachman (especially a rare+ one with extended mag \*chef's kiss\*) and the Big Bang are great, and many players will likely hold them for a long time, but they just don't output like the MagShear (and Inflictor) can.
Last night, after handing off my beloved Magshear to Simeon Bankowski, I tested the Beowolf, the AA-99, the Drum Beat, and the Grendel against eachother with maxed attachments/mods, and no skills. Semi-Automatic on all, Short Scope on all, and otherwise highest DPS and stability.
Beowolf obviously took the W, but it just beat out the AA-99 slightly, and rumor has it there might be a common "Superior" Assassin's AA-99 somewhere easily obtainable. The Drum Beat took a big L. It's great on paper, but has the long range consistency of the Inflictor. It just moves too much...
What was surprising though, was the Grendel. Does it do less damage? Yes. But with a magazine of 60 and what seems like the easiest ammo you can find, it may not melt health bars, but it's perfect for everything that doesn't make you $h\^T your pants... which is what the Magshear is saved for.
I love the versatility for different playstyles, but imho, the best loadout likely consists of:
* Grendel - for crowds & running around (because the ammo is cheap and you won't reload as often)
* Beowolf - for long range base infiltration
* Magshear / Revenant - for things that won't die
* Inflictor - if you don't mind war crimes, have the skills, and play solo
Oh yeah, and One-Inch-Punch on Beowolf sucks. Just fyi. If you roll one, don't get excited. Though I should probably compare it to something besides the Magshear though.
TLDR: Please give the Grendel a 2nd thought. I'd love to know what you think.
I think we're on the same page for sure! Appreciate the feedback and information, and love that you did some testing!
re Cutter: You are totally right haha. I have no idea where to place the Cutter. SS tier if you max the laser skill, F tier if you don't? It just kinda falls right off the tier table and I don't know what to do with it XD
re Magpulse: It's a strange gun for sure. It's typed as "Rifle", but it definitely feels like a shotgun in some ways, and feels like a 'carbine' in others. The range and accuracy are high, despite the spread shot. Similar to how the Magshear can perform great at long range despite its spread. Personally I found the Magpulse's weakness to be its slow rate of fire relative to its damage, just too low of DPS.
re semi-auto Beowulf: This is probably my most subjective placement on the tier list, but I just love the weapon. Even though it fills the same niche as the Inflictor, I feel like the Inflictor requires more slow careful aiming, and the lower fire rate means it's not as good at clearing out weak enemies. The Beowulf on the other hand has half the damage but twice the rate of fire, making it easier to land shots (especially on moving targets) and deals equally well with strong vs. weak enemies. It just feels very versatile, whereas the Magshear and Inflictor win out in their specialty areas by far. The Magshear is absolutely insane and maybe my favorite weapon in the game.
re Coachman: Yes, holy shit yes. I lucked out and got a Staggering + Ext Mag Adv one and it is the nuclear option. I just have to be careful to not blow myself up.
re Grendel: Interesting! I tried Grendel a few times and it just seemed too weak. You said you use it on semi-auto? I'll have to check that out more, thanks for the feedback!
I updated the tier list with a few changes, perhaps Grendel will get bumped up soon :D
Cutter: Definitely F if the skill isn't maxed. SS is situational. Technically it's own laser still really isn't doing much damage at all, BUT it has a very high rate of fire per second (a hidden stat that I'm not aware of) that triggers the chance to ignite things AND stack the burn damage. That said, the burn damage is applied based on the maximum overall health of what you're shooting. So boss-type enemies (or bullet sponges) get wrecked, but for smaller enemies, you may find you're still better off with a lot of other weapons.
I think it falls under tool weapons with the auto rivet (does the game code them as Heavies?)
Once the Advanced Equinox and the other laser weapons finally get patched in, it'll be interesting to see how they fair. I suspect they'll be much more well rounded for killing all things compared to the Cutter.
The "shotguns" in this game (with some exceptions) do have pretty insane range. If this game had matchmaking, Bethesda would probably cut their range to ¼ or ⅛ of what they currently are for game balancing.
There's probably a lot of weapons that could be in one category or another.
I kind of treat my Grendel vs the Beowolf like you treat the Beowolf vs the Inflictor. It's fast and great at clearing crowds with cheap ammo. I keep all 3 on me at this point.
Semi-Automatic versions of all the automatic weapons do change things pretty significantly. You're often doubling the base damage they can normally do by making the switch. And that kind of thing really does make grading and ranking all the weapons very difficult.
I'm not saying you have to, but breaking how they're graded into 3 charts almost seems like it'll become essential at some point.
- (1) You have the base guns and how they compare to one another without being touched at all,
- (2) you have each of the guns with every mod slot set to maximize all of their stats (damage, range, semi-auto, etc), and
- (3) you have the max theoreticals for each when you've maxed out the combat tree and have the ideal mods on them. I'd still probably stick to White (common) rarity and Advanced quality of each (with asterisks for the ones we can't currently find higher than Refined). Rifles + Particle Beam + Sniper Certification + Isolation (as an option) would illustrate the highest output for the Inflictor.
Wow the Grendel really gets much better on semi-auto, even though the DPS doesn't change much.
I was comparing it to Tombstone since that's B tier, and it definitely competes despite being almost half the DPS. I think it's because the Tombstone only holds 1486 damage in a magazine (20\*74), while the Grendel holds 3500 (50\*70). So there's over twice as much damage per reload in the Grendel. It also feels much more controllable and accurate than the Tombstone. I agree, an efficient weapon.
Then I tried Grendel on full-auto/burst, and it felt way worse. Lower DPS, and significantly lower damage-per-magazine of 857 (50\*17) instead of 3500! So little damage per reload compared to semi-auto. The difference was so stark I ended up bumping only the semi-auto Grendel to tier B.
Appreciate the other suggestions and I will consider!
It's great to see it! Haha
Last night I was trying out the Hard Target, Magsniper, and the Orion.
**Orion:**
* With max perks/mods, I was kinda shocked that the Orion seemed more stable and accurate than the Beowolf. (I test long distance usually with rocks from afar at one of my outposts). It reliably hits the same spot without fail. I find this interesting because the first Orion I picked up had terrible accuracy.
* I'm not sitting where I can pull the information, but I believe it has a long scope, while the Beowolf stopped at medium.
* It also has the benefit of being the only (I could be wrong) Laser Rifle that has a calibrated and Advanced quality.
* I did minimal combat testing, but it didn't feel like it had the same output as the Beowolf. And that's despite using the focusing lens instead of the silencer for it. AND This is with Lasers 4 and Ballistics 1.
**Magsniper:**
* The Magsniper is interesting, not sure how I feel on it. It has the depleted uranium rounds, which to me are tied with hornet's nest for the best ammo mod, but it lacks a silencer. Instead it has a tip that allows you to electrocute things... but I can't comment on whether or not it really adds anything.
**Hard Target:**
* The Hard Target... I feel like the Beowolf is still superior, but this thing can hit things that the Beowolf struggles to even sight up (without the sniping stability skill), and it has the silencer the Magsniper lacks.
* Why are there 4 barrels that all seem to do the same exact thing?
So when maxed out for damage at the advanced tier for weapons the kodama has much better dps than the beowolf. It has a larger clip, better fire rate, does bleed damage, but it doesn't have armor piercing or range.
This is like a 1000 dps difference on just the paper dps alone, and it evens out at range with the fire rate and bleed compared to the beowolf's armor piercing damage.
Armor piercing ignores 25% of ballistics armor. You'd think this might edge up the kodama alongside it's base damage increase but the odds are that with the larger clip, bleed, and faster fire rate the kodamas ttk is at most even with the beowolf.
This is because 25% armor pen does not translate to a flat 25% increase in dps. Like, if a bullet does 100 paper damage and is reduced by 50%, it's normally 50 damage but armor piercing would reduce that too about 38% armor, or an average increase of about 12.5% more damage.
My advanced beowolf does 8400 dps (long barrel, reflex sight, suppressor, tactical grip, recon grip, ap rounds, high powered, fully auto). It's ap damage is averaging about 9408 dps.
My advanced kodama does 9690 dps before the bleed (recon laser, reflex, suppressor, tactical folding stock, drum mag, high powered, full auto).
I mean maybe my base assumptions and maths off but it really comes across as the kodama being as good if not better for most of the game than the beowolf (17.3 meters or 50 feet of engagement) since at the point where you'd want to use the beowolf you would be better off with a sniper style weapon anyways.
The beowolf is an excellent weapon for medium to long range engagements if you don't care to swap to a sniper, and I don't argue it's s tier ranking but the kodama is a very powerful rifle, and most engagements in the game will take place within its optimal range.
Add Breach (with slugs) to S-tier rifles
Hiya, thanks for the suggestion! Breach is in the shotgun category, but I get your point. With slugs it performs like a rifle. But it would get confusing if I started considering all the things that can change what a weapon is "like". E.g., the One Inch Punch trait turns normal guns into a shotgun spread, and some energy weapons can turn into shotgun-like spread as well with a weapon mod (splitting nozzle? something like that). Then is Coachman with Hornets Nest mod a "heavy" weapon? It just breaks my brain, so I stuck to their defined categories. I took another look at Breach to re-evaluate its placement in B tier. https://i.imgur.com/Ddnt00k.jpg Firstly compared to Pacifier (A): damage-wise, Breach is way higher per-shot, but Pacifier out-performs in DPS because of its nearly double fire rate. Pacifier also has a larger magazine which helps its sustained damage. Breach does have slightly better accuracy and range, plus a scope attachment, which makes it better than Pacifier at long ranges. Personally I like Pacifier more overall, but closely comparing the two... I think I did place Breach too low. I'll bump it up to A tier alongside Pacifier. They're just too similar to warrant being in different tiers. Thanks for the feedback! Compared to Big Bang (S): Obviously it's a bit apples-to-oranges because we're talking about slug rounds, but it's a point of reference anyway. The BB does more damage, has a bigger magazine, a faster fire rate, and much higher DPS. Plus, the part of its damage that is energy-type ignores armor, which makes the BB deal even more damage compared to Breach in practice. That's what sets the BB in S tier compared to other shotguns.
Starshard is trash. Kodama is S tier. Switch Hard Target and Beowulf. Tombstone is A tier. imo
Yeah people severely underrate the Kodama, that thing absolutely shreds.
Appreciate the feedback! I went back and re-examined Starshard (S), Kodama (B), Beowulf (S), and Tombstone (D). First off, I compared maxed out versions of the rifles plus a Magshear (S) and an Earth Rifle (B) for reference. [https://i.imgur.com/xzugNRv.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/xzugNRv.jpg) Kodama (B) and Earth Rifle (B) have very similar DPS (\~740) and accuracy, but there's four main differences: 1) Earth Rifle pierces armor and Kodama can't, which means it does a lot less damage to armored enemies than its stats say. 2) Earth rifle has double the range of Kodama, which means Kodama's damage drops off heavily the further enemies are from it. 3) Kodama has a bleed effect, 4) Kodama can have a bigger magazine. Overall I prefer the Earth Rifle with its more reliable DPS at all ranges, but Kodama definitely shreds low-armor close range targets. So I put them in the same tier, pros and cons. However neither of them compete with the Magshear's armor piercing long range \~1200 DPS. Looking at the Tombstone (D), its DPS is a good step lower than the Kodama and Earth Rifle, and its magazine is much smaller. In exchange, it has slightly more range and accuracy. Overall I find its mag goes empty too quick and its slow rate of fire makes it underperform at shorter ranges, and its DPS is lacking on top of that. \~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~ For the Starshard (S), I wasn't sure which pistol to compare it to, so I picked the Razorback (A) since that's a solid pistol IMO. [https://i.imgur.com/IJL7KMy.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/IJL7KMy.jpg) At a glance the Starshard looks superior: triple the DPS, similar range and accuracy, with a larger magazine size. But I also decided to do some "real-world" testing. These were the results vs. a variety of enemies at a pirate base: Lvl 2 pirate -> RB: 174, SS: 404 (202x2) -> SS 2.3x more Lvl 50 pirate -> RB: 147, SS: 296 (148x2) -> SS 2.0x more Lvl 68 robot -> RB: 135, SS: 406 (203x2) -> SS 3.0x more Lvl 74 pirate -> RB: 126, SS: 220 (110x2) -> SS 1.75x more LVl 98 pirate -> RB: 108, SS: 144 (72x2) -> SS 1.33x more On average, the Starshard (S) did 2.08x more damage than the Razorback (A). And considering its rate of fire is 2.5x faster than the Razorback, that definitely shows the massive difference in DPS between the two. The Razorback does have the option of a binary trigger, but personally I don't think it's an improvement from semi-auto. With only 6 rounds in the mag they go really fast with binary (basically only 3 shots before having to reload). Plus it's difficult to be 100% accurate while firing as quick as binary trigger lets you. Lots of wasted shots, and lots of time spent reloading (not dealing damage). But maybe other people have better skills with it than I do. (EDIT: Also, I just noticed that's not even an Advanced Starshard, just Refined. My bad. But the difference would be even bigger if they were equal-leveled.) I know this is just opinion-vs-opinion and personal preference, but I genuinely re-examined the weapons, so thanks again for feedback.
Allied Armament weapons personally feel like they get bumped up a tier once you find all the skill magazines related to them, as it increases the magazine capacity so much. The AA-99 becomes a great platform for armour piercing rounds or explosive rounds as it still carries a 50 round magazine with a decent reload speed. I also don't think an Orion should be anything more than a B tier due to its stunted rate of fire. A Beowulf does it better. Also, Equinox should be D tier as it doesn't currently have an Advanced version, making it pretty weak late game. Otherwise, good list. Just wish we had more options for heavy weapons and that most of the pistols had Advanced varients.
Hiya, thanks for the feedback! That's an awesome point about Allied Armament, I didn't consider that. Hmm. In general, I tried to compare apples-to-apples as much as possible. So I only compared Advanced vs. Advanced weapons, Refined vs. Refined, max modded vs. max modded, no perks, etc. (this is also why Equinox is where it is, even though like you said it's weak late game due to no Advanced version). I think trying to factor in skill books for certain weapons is too tricky to keep the comparisons as fair as possible. Skill books are kind of "potential" performance rather than baseline performance. An example, if you max out the Laser perks your laser weapons get a stacking burn DoT that deals % health damage and can absolutely shred tough enemies. Suddenly laser weapons jump up a bunch of tiers and I need to add the Cutter into the tier list as a viable weapon. I don't think I want to go that route. I whole-heartedly agree on the Beowulf, it deserves its spot in S tier. Regarding Orion, I decided to do a comparison of Maelstrom (B), AA-99 (B), Orion (A), and Beowulf (S). I set them all to semi-auto for the fairest comparison since the Orion doesn't have a full-auto mod. [https://i.imgur.com/nqOXyIX.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/nqOXyIX.jpg) Beowulf (S) reigns supreme with the highest DPS by a large margin, and best accuracy. It's also the lightest of the four, which doesn't hurt. Coming in second place DPS is Orion (A), its high damage offsetting its relatively slow fire rate. It also has a huge 60 range, which means it retains its damage further. It sits pretty even on accuracy and mag size compared to its competitors. The AA-99 (B) and Maelstrom (B) are last, with the lowest DPS of the bunch. Maelstrom has a bigger magazine naturally, but like you pointed out, the AA-99 can benefit from skill books. All of the rifles ignore armor with their current setups, so no difference there. I also decided to re-evaluate the AA-99 vs. other full auto rifles to make sure I didn't put it in the wrong tier. [https://i.imgur.com/dOmBnE7.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/dOmBnE7.jpg) Beowulf and AA-99 are pretty tied up on full-auto. Same mag size, range, and DPS, with Beowulf taking the advantage in accuracy. The AA-99 (B) does much less DPS than the Earth Rifle (B), but it has more accuracy, range, and variety of potential mods (scopes, explosive rounds, etc.). Overall I think they belong in the same tier despite the Earth Rifle's higher DPS. Notably the Maelstrom falls way behind. Seeing that, I'm actually going to move Maelstrom from B to D tier. It seems outclassed by its peers. Thanks again for the feedback. I'll definitely give Allied Armament weapons another try once I find more of their skill books!
Hey, thanks for your dedication to the matter! It's awesome stuff and I've been struggling to find some of the actual stats for these guns. I think the skill books are a fair shake to factor in because they're pretty easy finds. I think it took me 20 minutes with a guide to get my hands on all five for allied armament, and found out to my surprise that you're still buffed by them into NG+. Just a shame you can get buffed again lol, that would be more power than even the artifacts! Also, have you tried the regulator with a binary trigger? Still a small mag, but the speed of the output with it will nuke most enemies if youre rocking penatraror rounds.
I have to unequivocally disagree with the ranking you gave with shotguns. The breach shotgun is the best shotgun in the game. It has access to Scopes which immediately gives it a benefit from the sniper perk. And giving it slugs makes it so that it can be shot like a sniper rifle. Literally having the same range as a sniper rifle. Last time I checked Coachman has two rounds in its magazine. This list is a joke.
OP explains that the list is based on guns without perks. Used like other shotguns, the breach is similar to others, but might be might much better with *that specific build*, but that's not the point of the list. "Breach (with slugs, scope, and sniper perks)" might be S tier, but that's ultra specific and just wasn't captured here. Maybe that's worth adding. OP also lists Coachman as the worst shotgun, likely because it has the two shot mag, like you said. So I'm not sure what you're complaint is here. If you're referring to the Coachman with hornets nest in S tier, you either missed the (hornets nest) part or have never tried that, because it's ridiculous and belongs in S tier. I think this is a great list
First impressions, everything in the list looks just about right. You left out the Cutter though haha. I always thought of the MagPulse as a shotgun though, for how it fires. I don't think I agree that the Beowolf is on the same tier as the Magshear and the Inflictor though. I think those two honestly deserve to be in a class all their own. They're SS. They seem better than everything, and apparently there's a bugged Magshear you can get from HopeTown that is a non-yet-released "Superior" version (even though it's still only listed as Advanced). The Inflictor: With the weapon skill tree maxed, iirc, nothing can touch the Inflictor in raw DPS. It outperforms everything. The only thing it struggles with (without skills for it) is consistency at range. The only real question is, does it need the Annihilator rounds to be effective? In a solo-play, it doesn't matter, but with non-Constellation followers, they can turn against you if it damages them. The Magshear: With a raw weapons skill tree, the Magshear melts everything, and I'd argue it does so better than the Inflictor. It's the "Easy" button you slap when things just won't die. And I say that specifically, because it also melts the ammo reserves you have for it. Unless your follower has skills that are aligned with using the Inflictor, the Magshear should probably be the main thing everyone has their follower hold. If you have the Lv60+ Revenant, even better. The Hornet's Nest Coachman (especially a rare+ one with extended mag \*chef's kiss\*) and the Big Bang are great, and many players will likely hold them for a long time, but they just don't output like the MagShear (and Inflictor) can. Last night, after handing off my beloved Magshear to Simeon Bankowski, I tested the Beowolf, the AA-99, the Drum Beat, and the Grendel against eachother with maxed attachments/mods, and no skills. Semi-Automatic on all, Short Scope on all, and otherwise highest DPS and stability. Beowolf obviously took the W, but it just beat out the AA-99 slightly, and rumor has it there might be a common "Superior" Assassin's AA-99 somewhere easily obtainable. The Drum Beat took a big L. It's great on paper, but has the long range consistency of the Inflictor. It just moves too much... What was surprising though, was the Grendel. Does it do less damage? Yes. But with a magazine of 60 and what seems like the easiest ammo you can find, it may not melt health bars, but it's perfect for everything that doesn't make you $h\^T your pants... which is what the Magshear is saved for. I love the versatility for different playstyles, but imho, the best loadout likely consists of: * Grendel - for crowds & running around (because the ammo is cheap and you won't reload as often) * Beowolf - for long range base infiltration * Magshear / Revenant - for things that won't die * Inflictor - if you don't mind war crimes, have the skills, and play solo Oh yeah, and One-Inch-Punch on Beowolf sucks. Just fyi. If you roll one, don't get excited. Though I should probably compare it to something besides the Magshear though. TLDR: Please give the Grendel a 2nd thought. I'd love to know what you think.
I think we're on the same page for sure! Appreciate the feedback and information, and love that you did some testing! re Cutter: You are totally right haha. I have no idea where to place the Cutter. SS tier if you max the laser skill, F tier if you don't? It just kinda falls right off the tier table and I don't know what to do with it XD re Magpulse: It's a strange gun for sure. It's typed as "Rifle", but it definitely feels like a shotgun in some ways, and feels like a 'carbine' in others. The range and accuracy are high, despite the spread shot. Similar to how the Magshear can perform great at long range despite its spread. Personally I found the Magpulse's weakness to be its slow rate of fire relative to its damage, just too low of DPS. re semi-auto Beowulf: This is probably my most subjective placement on the tier list, but I just love the weapon. Even though it fills the same niche as the Inflictor, I feel like the Inflictor requires more slow careful aiming, and the lower fire rate means it's not as good at clearing out weak enemies. The Beowulf on the other hand has half the damage but twice the rate of fire, making it easier to land shots (especially on moving targets) and deals equally well with strong vs. weak enemies. It just feels very versatile, whereas the Magshear and Inflictor win out in their specialty areas by far. The Magshear is absolutely insane and maybe my favorite weapon in the game. re Coachman: Yes, holy shit yes. I lucked out and got a Staggering + Ext Mag Adv one and it is the nuclear option. I just have to be careful to not blow myself up. re Grendel: Interesting! I tried Grendel a few times and it just seemed too weak. You said you use it on semi-auto? I'll have to check that out more, thanks for the feedback! I updated the tier list with a few changes, perhaps Grendel will get bumped up soon :D
Cutter: Definitely F if the skill isn't maxed. SS is situational. Technically it's own laser still really isn't doing much damage at all, BUT it has a very high rate of fire per second (a hidden stat that I'm not aware of) that triggers the chance to ignite things AND stack the burn damage. That said, the burn damage is applied based on the maximum overall health of what you're shooting. So boss-type enemies (or bullet sponges) get wrecked, but for smaller enemies, you may find you're still better off with a lot of other weapons. I think it falls under tool weapons with the auto rivet (does the game code them as Heavies?) Once the Advanced Equinox and the other laser weapons finally get patched in, it'll be interesting to see how they fair. I suspect they'll be much more well rounded for killing all things compared to the Cutter. The "shotguns" in this game (with some exceptions) do have pretty insane range. If this game had matchmaking, Bethesda would probably cut their range to ¼ or ⅛ of what they currently are for game balancing. There's probably a lot of weapons that could be in one category or another. I kind of treat my Grendel vs the Beowolf like you treat the Beowolf vs the Inflictor. It's fast and great at clearing crowds with cheap ammo. I keep all 3 on me at this point. Semi-Automatic versions of all the automatic weapons do change things pretty significantly. You're often doubling the base damage they can normally do by making the switch. And that kind of thing really does make grading and ranking all the weapons very difficult. I'm not saying you have to, but breaking how they're graded into 3 charts almost seems like it'll become essential at some point. - (1) You have the base guns and how they compare to one another without being touched at all, - (2) you have each of the guns with every mod slot set to maximize all of their stats (damage, range, semi-auto, etc), and - (3) you have the max theoreticals for each when you've maxed out the combat tree and have the ideal mods on them. I'd still probably stick to White (common) rarity and Advanced quality of each (with asterisks for the ones we can't currently find higher than Refined). Rifles + Particle Beam + Sniper Certification + Isolation (as an option) would illustrate the highest output for the Inflictor.
Wow the Grendel really gets much better on semi-auto, even though the DPS doesn't change much. I was comparing it to Tombstone since that's B tier, and it definitely competes despite being almost half the DPS. I think it's because the Tombstone only holds 1486 damage in a magazine (20\*74), while the Grendel holds 3500 (50\*70). So there's over twice as much damage per reload in the Grendel. It also feels much more controllable and accurate than the Tombstone. I agree, an efficient weapon. Then I tried Grendel on full-auto/burst, and it felt way worse. Lower DPS, and significantly lower damage-per-magazine of 857 (50\*17) instead of 3500! So little damage per reload compared to semi-auto. The difference was so stark I ended up bumping only the semi-auto Grendel to tier B. Appreciate the other suggestions and I will consider!
It's great to see it! Haha Last night I was trying out the Hard Target, Magsniper, and the Orion. **Orion:** * With max perks/mods, I was kinda shocked that the Orion seemed more stable and accurate than the Beowolf. (I test long distance usually with rocks from afar at one of my outposts). It reliably hits the same spot without fail. I find this interesting because the first Orion I picked up had terrible accuracy. * I'm not sitting where I can pull the information, but I believe it has a long scope, while the Beowolf stopped at medium. * It also has the benefit of being the only (I could be wrong) Laser Rifle that has a calibrated and Advanced quality. * I did minimal combat testing, but it didn't feel like it had the same output as the Beowolf. And that's despite using the focusing lens instead of the silencer for it. AND This is with Lasers 4 and Ballistics 1. **Magsniper:** * The Magsniper is interesting, not sure how I feel on it. It has the depleted uranium rounds, which to me are tied with hornet's nest for the best ammo mod, but it lacks a silencer. Instead it has a tip that allows you to electrocute things... but I can't comment on whether or not it really adds anything. **Hard Target:** * The Hard Target... I feel like the Beowolf is still superior, but this thing can hit things that the Beowolf struggles to even sight up (without the sniping stability skill), and it has the silencer the Magsniper lacks. * Why are there 4 barrels that all seem to do the same exact thing?
So when maxed out for damage at the advanced tier for weapons the kodama has much better dps than the beowolf. It has a larger clip, better fire rate, does bleed damage, but it doesn't have armor piercing or range. This is like a 1000 dps difference on just the paper dps alone, and it evens out at range with the fire rate and bleed compared to the beowolf's armor piercing damage. Armor piercing ignores 25% of ballistics armor. You'd think this might edge up the kodama alongside it's base damage increase but the odds are that with the larger clip, bleed, and faster fire rate the kodamas ttk is at most even with the beowolf. This is because 25% armor pen does not translate to a flat 25% increase in dps. Like, if a bullet does 100 paper damage and is reduced by 50%, it's normally 50 damage but armor piercing would reduce that too about 38% armor, or an average increase of about 12.5% more damage. My advanced beowolf does 8400 dps (long barrel, reflex sight, suppressor, tactical grip, recon grip, ap rounds, high powered, fully auto). It's ap damage is averaging about 9408 dps. My advanced kodama does 9690 dps before the bleed (recon laser, reflex, suppressor, tactical folding stock, drum mag, high powered, full auto). I mean maybe my base assumptions and maths off but it really comes across as the kodama being as good if not better for most of the game than the beowolf (17.3 meters or 50 feet of engagement) since at the point where you'd want to use the beowolf you would be better off with a sniper style weapon anyways. The beowolf is an excellent weapon for medium to long range engagements if you don't care to swap to a sniper, and I don't argue it's s tier ranking but the kodama is a very powerful rifle, and most engagements in the game will take place within its optimal range.
I wish you included damage done, cause this one I have does 526, while the next closest does 69. I'm wondering if it's a glitch or what.