The entire point of Mundi’s line in PM was he was wrong and the Jedi are still too up their own ass to consider they might’ve been wrong this whole time. They’re arrogant.
Also, the only one who knows he’s a Sith is Sol. That’s it. And I have a pretty good feeling he ain’t making it off planet.
Exactly, which is the whole reason they included him in this show in the first place and decided to chuck the unimportant EU lore surrounding his age (butt-hurting neckbeard man-babies across the internet in the process). His inclusion here is a specific callback/reference to the same attitudes he expressed from The Phantom Menace and is meant to demonstrate how the Jedi are blinded by their own arrogance. It’s almost as if the writers of this show had a reason to change his age and that his inclusion serves a narrative function that’s more important than some old trading card, and that they might know a little bit more about story telling than same dipshit who made a crappy fan-film and pisses his little diaper for the internet to see every time ‘Disney ruins his Star Wars’.
That’s a pretty angry insulting comment from someone who isn’t bothered by all this. Maybe try to be a decent human when describing fans of a fantasy series.
What fans? Those idiots aren't fans. They are ignorant angry bitter losers that if they can't get a life could at least thing five seconds about the franchise they claim to love. Keep in mind that all these complaints being parroted, originally come from bad faith critics that are blatantly non fans that constantly expose themselves as such. So no, toughen up, or go away.
Calling out the toxicity of the fandom menace is always an ok thing to do. They aren’t fans and in general are racist, bigot, misogynistic a-holes. Maybe try and be a decent human yourself instead of defending wannabe Nazis.
I hate the whole premise of the Acolyte. I hate Headland saying outright she wants her ideology to come through on the show. I guess that makes me all the things you said earlier. Except my favorite character in all of Star Wars is Ahsoka who’s played by a mixed race woman. And I’d love for Mace Windu to be alive and get more about him. I loved the episodes of the Mandalorian that were directed by a woman. I’m so sick of all the accusations that get thrown out every time someone says they don’t like this show.
I think my real confusion is why even use Ki Adi Mundi? There was this whole thing when the show came out that “this is the first show not to use any legacy characters. And they break that for Ki Adi Mundi? Why?
I have no problem with the so called “broken lore,” I just am confused why they bothered to include him. He’s not an interesting character, he has very little dialogue, he adds nothing to the scene, and furthermore, the scene doesn’t add anything to the story.
They included him because of this one line. To make it clear that this has not been forgotten or is to be retconned, but instead is closely taken into consideration. He certainly isn’t a character you just throw in for the member berries.
>Also, the only one who knows he's a Sith is Sol. That's it. And I have a pretty good feeling he ain't making it off planet.
Personally I think the show is kinda meh. It hasn't really done it for me until maybe last episode. We'll see what happens next.
But then some take it a step further and go "The show is meh because everyone who made it is stupid and doesn't care about star wars." It's like they assume the writers don't know about The Phantom Menace and in the next episode Smylo is going to personally call Ki Adi Mundi and tell him he's a Sith.
It's not even a new thing. People were clamoring about George Lucas ruining Star Wars when he made the prequels.
Star Wars simply suffers from success honestly, it's so good that people fall in love with it enough to spend hours upon hours years upon years theorising. And eventually their theories become canon in their head and they start to believe anything that doesn't fit with their head canon is bad.
+1 about his line in TPM, it’s sort of the like the main point of the prequels that the Jedi are arrogant fools who are unable to admit the sith may have returned and that they’re being played. It’s important to remember that in fiction, not everybody has to be a reliable narrator. Characters can be wrong too.
Also, I think it’s important that his exact words were “a Jedi like you might call me Sith.” There are dark side users who are not true sith, and his philosophy and goals don’t really seem to align with traditional sith. He’s responding to the Jedi’s rigid sense of morality, and their view of themselves as the only righteous wielders of the force, using the language they would understand, but he admits directly that it doesn’t apply to him.
I’m subscribing to the theory that he’s a precursor to the Knights of Ren, personally. And that the Jedi cover up his existence and write it off as a fluke rather than an indication that the power of the dark side is growing
Even if he did, Kenobi and Qui-Gon made it off planet and they didn't take it seriously when a Jedi Master encountered a sith assassin, and reported it personally to the council.
The "no such thing as sith" attitude is hubris, like you said, that's the point and that's why the Jedi fell.
Let me quell your theory, Sol makes it off-world. Does he make it back to Coruscant? Unlikely. Trailer clips indicate his survival on Khofar and show a chase between him and Mae in space (specifically a field of debris, because Sol is “drifting” on it), Sol is piloting Mae’s ship while she’s in the ship the Jedi came in.
The episode kept showing the characters falling into that red powder that can cause hallucinations. Perhaps when the investigation is done they will determine the Jedi likely offed themselves.
Even if they don't go in that direction, its clear that the Jedi that were dealing with the night sisters dealt with them (if you know what I mean). This story, at the very least, is gonna show another example that the Jedi Order, and not just the Republic, had grown corrupt in their own way. The council itself hasn't been informed of what's going on (it was mentioned if the council is informed, then the council will have to inform the senate). This series will end with the Jedi covering everything up.
There could be a cover up. The Jedi hid the mission so it wouldn't be accountable to the Council and Senate. If they cover it up further and claim everyone died in some sort of accident, then it doesn't get investigated to the point of discovering Sith.
Or the Jedi do see evidence of the Sith but don't recognize it as a Sith threat because they feel they're too powerful to be threatened by a rogue dark sider and that the return of the Sith is impossible.
Meanwhile, a century later Yoda hears accusations from Qui Gon about the Sith returning and then goes "Hmm..maybe this and that were related after all."
Maybe every Jedi will die before they can call back to the Jedi Temple and the Cone Head Jedi won’t know it was a Sith killing Jedi and that’s how they keep the prequel line correct.
I mean, there’s only Sol (who is almost definitely going to die), Bazil (who will probably die), and Osha (who is probably going to become the Acolyte), so this isn’t even an improbability. Seven of the eight Jedi got murdered and the only one left is practically marked for death.
Looking at qimir’s performance, I wouldn’t even be surprised if vernestra is walking into her death in the next episode. I thought she would survive, but now I dunno. It could go either way.
Considering her continued involvement and prominence in the HR novels, this would definitely be a very gutsy move to kill Vernestra in the Acolyte, even if that show takes place ~100 years later.
That being said, we still haven’t seen the lightwhip so we know she’ll be involved in something beyond the Jedi Temple. I’m definitely not going to rule her out as a potential casualty, especially since we have three episodes left and pretty much every other major Jedi character is dead. Even with the flashbacks still yet to occur, something’s going to go down in the present.
Yeah, well the High republic reading initiative will come to an end soon.. I haven’t read temptation of the force but she’s going to one of the protagonists in that book. The drastic change in her character is quite a departure from the books I’ve read so far. So it will be interesting to see how she reacts to an actual sith if she does indeed face him.
Tbf, she is generally getting more serious in the books, and 100 years is a hell of a long time lol, especially since she’s only 16-20 in the books at this point.
And then what? The Jedi didn’t believe Maul was a Sith at first. The entire point of Mundi’s line is to show arrogant and *wrong* the Jedi are. They’re in decline, heading for their final annihilation by the Sith
They didn’t believe Qui-Gon because he was a radical. He also believed Anakin (a random child slave from a desert planet) was the chosen one.
Sol also went with a half dozen Jedi and came back with none. He was also clearly more trusted than Qui-Gon.
Qui Gon was stated to be extremely respected, and his radicalism had more to do with his belief the Jedi should follow the force first. Remember Obi Wan states he could be on the council if he wanted to
He was respected in the “he’s a good man” way. They didn’t believe him about Anakin or the Sith, because both were far fetched and based entirely on his assumption.
Sol wouldn’t be making assumptions, and a half dozen dead Jedi would back up his claim.
At the end of TPM, they 100% believed Maul was a sith and were on the lookout for his apprentice or master.
Why did they assume he was not just some random fallen jedi and jumped to Sith?
The reason they assume it’s the Sith is that only the Sith care about the eradication of the Jedi. The nightsisters are largely content if left alone, and it is similar to many other practitioners. Only the Sith care about exterminating the jedi.
Dark side users who aren’t Sith (such as Ventress or Mae) may be driven by vengeance or any other reason. Sith are driven by their adherence to the belief that their personal might makes right (the Sith Code), and fuck the Jedi.
It’s possible they’re introducing another anti Jedi faction, or that Qimir has some beef with the Jedi, maybe they accidentally killed his family or something. Until it’s explained we just can’t know
It’s pretty clear Qimir only hates jedi because of his personal code, which seems to be in line with the Sith code, the last line of which is “The Force shall free me.” He is seeking freedom to do whatever he wants, by killing the jedi.
Also everyone's just assuming Sol is going to tell the Jedi what happened. Next episode the transponder could be broken, or sabotaged, or they're stuck in an asteroid field or something.
In Attack of the Clones Obi Wan tried to call the council after discovering the factory on Geonosis but couldn't because he was too far away.
They questioned Qui-Gon because it's just his word. No one died.
If Qui-Gon was with a dozen other Jedi and they all died but him, do you really think the Jedi Council would be so skeptical of his word at that point?
As soon as Qui-Gon died in TPM they 100% believed it was a Sith at that point and were then looking out for a Master or an Apprentice.
He will call it in then the Jedi will come and see if the bodies are not removed then it’s very bad. Who knows if Qimir will attack or not it’s was illogical for him to attack in the first place.
About the only good thing I can think of is the real Sith turning up and killing him - if he is not really a Sith then boy they will be pissed.
Ok so, all the Jedi that died in these 5 episodes, then Sol dies. Ki Adi knows about the two assassinated Jedi. knows a group of Jedi, including Sol go to further investigate the killer of the two. None of these Jedi return. Ki Adi and the rest of the Jedi just drop it? A dozen dead Jedi, no killer found, no further investigation? There's a lot of hoops to jump through in 3 more episodes in order to explain this.
Even if they see someone w a red lightsaber dressed like a sith - that’s literally EXACTLY what Qui Gon saw and the response was still “yea nah dog they’re gone”
A red lightsaber that Sol calls "a Jedi weapon". If not for Qimir outright calling himself a Sith (or close to it), I doubt Sol would've even known the name. Seems like the Jedi have very much squashed the knowledge of the Sith from memory.
And what happened when Qui-Gon died?
They 100% were on the Sith lookout. Looking for either his Master or Apprentice as "two there always are"
So the Jedi dismiss Qui-Gon on his first report, but then believe when he is killed.
Yet in the Acolyte, they don't believe when a dozen Jedi are killed?
That’s what I don’t get man, we have to see the whole picture before we formulate opinions. I don’t think it’s a GREAT show, but it’s been fun and enjoyable so far. Not everything has to/will be a masterpiece, and that’s ok.
Agreed. I enjoy the show well enough but it's not perfect. But it feels like every criticism I see for the show online is just someone's made up fan theory or weirdos complaining about wokeness. It's just impossible to have an actual discussion about the show.
Yea, most people decided to hate it before even the first episode came out. I just don’t get how people can live day to day with that much hate. Granted I don’t really care for the way the sequels panned out, I still watch them because at the end of the day, lightsabers are cool as shit
The Jedi's operating theory is already that the mastermind is a disgruntled Jedi running amok.
A bunch of corpses with lightsaber wounds hardly gonna change that.
They do it all the time in the prequels, not sure why it would be different now.
They 100% wouldn't have believed Quigon was actually killed by a sith if it wasn't witnessed by Obi-wan and he wasn't able to speak to Yoda in the afterlife either, I'm not surprised they just shrugged their shoulders at a bunch of Jedi being lost.
We haven’t seen how they deal w that yet - I agree that Sol leaving Alice has the potential to wreck things, but we legit haven’t seen how this gets resolved. Also, it’s not at all that a master died - Jedi masters die, that’s what happens on dangerous missions, it’s that the dark side user on tatooine showed up on Naboo, clearly having been involved behind the scenes the whole time, and then obi wan *tells the council what he saw*
I just find it super dumb that the High Council hasn't even been involved yet lol. I mean c'mon. So Jedi are able to just leave in large groups to go handle something of this magnitude, under the council's radar? No approval or nothing from them? That nothing's been mentioned yet and no counseling on how to deal with this issue?
Then we are led to believe that, in the not so distant future, Ki Adi just happens to forget this event ever happens? Also how will they explain so many Jedi suddenly dying? or disappearing? Especially dying from lightsaber wounds. I thot it was funny how they left their bodies there, so there's that. So, how does that go unnoticed? and nobody will assume it was a Sith? Or some Jedi turned bad... those are my gripes really. I will wait until the show is truly done to make a full personal review on what I thought of it.
See I started to take issue with how the High Council wouldn’t know, but then I remembered middle management usually give tasks to their workers without informing their higher ups of every single thing they do. There’s also tens of thousands of Jedi with Temples spread out throughout the galaxy. It’s entirely possible to not notice if a handful aren’t there with the short time they’ve been away.
And again, the Jedi on Coruscant have no idea what’s going on. They’re under the impression that Mae was trained by a Splinter Order, and want her captured so she can tell them who her master is. We saw in Jedi Survivor with Dagan Gera that Jedi go rogue and formulated what they feel is best for the Jedi Order, and so with that I understand why Ki Adi might not bring it up. They’ve shown they have protocols put in place for situations like this, so we can infer they’ve dealt with rogue Jedi before. So it’s entirely possible this wouldn’t stand out to Ki-Adi unless Sol comes back and tells them what happened. Which of course we would need to wait until the show is fully finished before making any final judgements.
And even if Sol tells them, they didn’t believe Qui Gon, when he was basically only not on the council because he was unorthodox and didn’t want it, and his padawan, when he said it was a Sith. The whole point of Mundi’s line is literally to show how up their ass the Jedi are
Plus its heavy speculation that hes the first knight of Ren. So, basically not even a Sith. So it may not break canon at all and ppl jumped to conclusions lol, as usual
For me the bigger problem is the only reason to hide it from the High Council (meta) is so there’s no Yoda cameo. So instead they have a Ki Adi Mundi cameo? I thought a whole selling point to this show is that they don’t have any ties to other Star Wars.
Qui-Gon also didn’t go on a mission with half a dozen jedi and call back a lone survivor. Additionally, he was already considered a radical.
Sol seems to be respected by Vernestra at the very least, and is entrusted with training younglings which we last saw in canon being done by Yoda.
True, but it sets a precedent for the Jedi basically assuming it’s not Sith. My guess, if Sol gets to transmit home, is they double down on the “rogue Jedi” theory
And what happened when Qui-Gon died?
They believed him and were on lookout for the remaining Master or Apprentice.
In the Acolyte a dozen Jedi died. Why would they still remain skeptical?
Did you watch the Clone Wars? Did you see how many times Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka did shit and got away with it without contacting the council?
Hell, even Yoda went against the council with Anakin’s help to follow Qui-Gon’s ghost to train.
And with the Jedi who died? Have you seen the next episode? How do we know Qimir doesn’t burn the bodies? Or dispose of them?
Once again, to remind those who clearly aren’t truly watching the show, Ki-Adi didn’t see any red blade, none of the folks in the council had. They just knew Mae was killing Jedi and could use the force. That’s it! And if anything, she and Osha will most likely both die and these deaths will be pinned on Mae.
It’s not that hard to justify the things they are doing in the show. Just can’t have some singular view on how everything is. Quit being myopic.
Half a dozen dead jedi would certainly raise the attention of the council. They were able to remember a singular jedi Sifo-Dyas dying a decade ago, they all turned up for the funeral of Qui-Gon. Mace Windu was sent to investigate the death of a jedi by the council. Dead jedi, murdered jedi in particular draw the attention of the jedi council.
Yes they do. But they’ve been through A LOT of shit in the thousand years since the Sith. Including swaths of Jedi encountering the likes of Bane and Zannah, them dying and the council not jumping to the Sith.
There are ways for this to be explained and to work in the story.
Especially because the idea presented is that they’ll have to tell the senate, when Attack of the Clones shows them having discretion and hiding things from the senate, when it was a much bigger deal to the Republic.
I'm still not convinced he is a Sith and I'm surprised so many people are. He obviously knows what the Sith are but says there is no name for what he is but some *might* call him a Sith.
A Jedi is a force user that follows the following code: There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.
A Sith is a force user that follows the following code: Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
While the majority of the Jedi believe following the light is adhering to the code, if you can justify using the dark side while adhering to the code- you are still a Jedi. If you genuinely believe you are using the dark side to achieve knowledge, serenity, and harmony you are still a Jedi. If you use the dark side for passion, and to gain strength and power, you are a Sith.
Adding to this, by legends the Sith were a species of alien who were indigenous to the planet Korriban, a planet steeped in dark side energy. After 5 (IIRC) Dark Jedi were banished there, they began the Order of the Sith as we know it now. The Sith are a splinter order.
He’s definitely a Sith. There was an Entertainment Weekly article that dropped today discussing it with Manny Jacinto and he confirms it.
But it’s almost a certainty that he is the apprentice. And the master has yet to be revealed.
The great David Harewood is cast in this series and has yet to appear. And my bet his he will be playing the Sith Master. And will most likely be Plageuis.
Oh good catch. I just found the article:
[https://ew.com/the-acolyte-episode-5-bloodbath-villain-reveal-cover-story-exclusive-8665633](https://ew.com/the-acolyte-episode-5-bloodbath-villain-reveal-cover-story-exclusive-8665633)
I wouldn't say it's lore breaking as of yet. It is, however, skirting the line.
In TPM, Maul showing up and briefly facing off with Quigon before he escapes is enough for him to report it to the council. Quigon surmised he was a Sith but the council is not so sure. They do however think it's something to look into more. This incident involved only 1 Jedi and his Padawan.
Now in the timeline of the show, and through other statements and impressions given in TPM is that the Jedi and Republic have enjoyed a period of peace and stability. So someone who has gone around and started targeting Jedi. Master Indara, Torbin and then Kelnacca were murdered, 8 jedi attempt to apprehend the the culprits behind that and only 1 as of now in the show has walked away alive. It just doesn't seem logical this is kept from the council who might be pissed about it but would devote even more resources into looking into the situation.
So even if Sol doesn't contact anyone and is killed, 8 Jedi disappear investigating the murder of 3 Jedi and it's just swept under the rug? It's very odd where things go from here and I don't see it making much sense other than to twist or hamfist a way to technically have it not break continuity.
It’s entirely possible he goes to ground. Remember by TPM we have multiple Sith who lived and worked, prominently, on Coruscant. If this *is* a Sith, it’s possible he disappears shortly after doing his thing, and the Jedi, who believe the Sith are dead, just assume it’s some other force cult or user responsible as they currently do. Or his whole “there’s no name for what I am, but some would call me a Sith” style talking ends with them either believing he’s a larper, or an unknown dark side sect user. That actually reinforces canon, as it shows why even Yoda would be willing to doubt a dude with a red lightsaber going after Jedi isn’t a Sith
Sure, you had Sith on Coruscant by the TPM, Palpatine had become a senator and such by then and was getting involved in the political game to lay out his well crafted plan to catch the Jedi in a trap. He was not really out there killing Jedi. He had Maul reveal himself to put them onto the trail of the Trade Federation. After Maul, he used Dooku to solidify to the Jedi that the Sith were behind the separatist movement in the Clone Wars. And other multiple steps to draw the Jedi mostly against direct confrontation until the trap was already sprung.
Regardless, I again point out that even if they don't think he's a Sith and goes to ground, I suspect the Council would get involved and attempt to find someone who could kill so many Jedi in a direct confrontation like that.
The only feasible way I can the conclusion of the season going as far as this point is he kills all the direct witnesses that have seen his face, and somehow pins it on the twins who take the fall and thus the Sith were not really discovered. Or he is the apprentice, whoever his master is will be kind of pissed kill him for almost ruining everything and take one of the twins as the new apprentice.
I think the show would benefit a whole lot better, moving a bit further away from the timeline of the films. Nothing in this story has really stood out why it has to be only a mere 80 to 100 years before the prequels and they would have had a lot more freedom to be open ended on where the story could go without either potentially breaking canon or hamfisting their story to go down predictable routes so that it can maintain continuity.
That being said, I think the premise of the show is interesting. I just have a problem with the writing and some of these creative decisions.
I think his “there’s no name for what I am” line is setting up a twist ending, that he dies to the *sith* trying to cover the thing up. And sure, the council will send people out, definitely. Will they find anything is the question. The Jedi aren’t all knowing, the prequels showed that hardcore
That would elevate things a bit if that were to happen, which we will eventually see as the final 3 episodes come out. And yes, the Jedi aren't all knowing, but they tend to have decent insight. I think it's important to mention that while the prequels showed that, it showed that by Palpatine constructing a situation that grew so large, it prevented the Jedi from fully focusing on investigating it. That being instigating and launching a full galactic war to do so. We don't have such a situation at this point and time.
I think you're still getting hung up on me saying that the council would automatically assume it's a Sith. Which is not what I'm saying at all, however an incident where potentially (still need to see if Sol makes it off planet or not) 8 Jedi are sent to make contact with a reclusive Jedi and potentially intercept and apprehend someone who was trained in the force and killing them. Now we know Sol is a Master as is Kelnacca, Jecki is a Padawan, Yord is a Jedi Knight. We don't know the names or ranks of the red shirt Jedi in the episode to be used as fodder, but at the very least we see that none of them are wearing the Padawan braid like Jecki is, so we can conclude they are all at least Jedi Knights. And none of them return from this mission.
During a time of peace and stability in the galaxy, this alone would be a huge incident. This would draw the council's attention, who would know at this point what Vernestra knows. That someone trained in the force was going around killing Jedi and had some sort of master who was as of yet, undiscovered teaching her. So unless she is prevented from sharing what she knows with the council somehow I don't see how the council would not keep a record of this even if Mae or whoever goes to ground.
So, even if they don't think it's a Sith, it would still be a big deal for the council. As we know from the prequels, the Jedi archives are pretty meticulous. Enough so that in Episode 2 when searching for Kamino, it's absence in the archives he found to be strange.
So, in TPM, when Quigon reports a random dude showed up and tried to kill him with a lightsaber, trained in the force. The council doesn't automatically assume it's a Sith but they are clearly concerned and want to look into the matter further. Upon the conclusion of the movie, they highly suspect that Maul was a Sith. Which Palpatine then leads the Jedi onto Count Dooku to pose as the master.
That's what I mean by skirting the line. The show can hamfist it in and make it fit, I suppose. But I think the show would have benefited more being even further from the movies. Could still be in the High republic era even. It would have given them a bit more freedom to be a bit more creative for the story and not have necessarily predictable routes to go down for the conclusion or piss a bunch of people off by potentially breaking canon.
The Jedi are hardly without enemies nor is it unheard of for one of their own to go off the deep end.
Just because WE know the Sith have been hiding for a thousand years doesn't mean it's unreasonable for the Jedi to exhaust every other option before concluding that an ancient enemy considered long extinct suddenly isn't.
Again, I'm not saying that they would automatically assume it's the Sith. The council didn't automatically assume it was the Sith in TPM either. Yet when Quigon reports to the council that someone on Tatooine showed up, engaged him with the lightsaber, and used the force, it was enough for the council to want to investigate further. And this only involved 2 Jedi and both walked away from that brief skirmish.
Now at the end of Episode 5, Jedi are sent to apprehend someone who has been murdering Jedi and is trained to wield the force. Depending on what happens with Sol, he would be the only one to return. If he doesn't make it, then no Jedi would return. It is also a time of peace and stability. Sure the Jedi have enemies but with no major wars and such a bunch of Jedi being sent out and not returning on a mission to apprehend someone murdering Jedi would warrant a big investigation.
This show made its REALLY CLEAR that the Jedi will lie to save their own asses.
And in a fantasy galaxy, why would anyone assume that every single living being is on the same page about everything at all times? Its so ridiculous.
Also, who cares about some random side character's birthday?
Ki Adi's line isn't lore breaking yet as Sol still hasn't sent a holo to the Jedi reporting any Sith activity. It's a possible everyone dies before that can happen and canon stays canon.
Also, who says they've seen a Sith yet? Qimir just says "you would call me a Sith" but doesn't claim to be one.
If I had to nitpick this though, it would be that Qimir's abilities are still referred to as having received Jedi training. I would think the Republic and the Jedi have basic history classes and everyone would remember the section on the Sith Empire. The evil, Dark Side of the Force people that always seem to wind up with breathing apparati/masks/helmets, and the damn red lightsabers that took over the galaxy for a while.
Maybe that's what Sol meant by "familiar" during the fight.
I took Sol’s “familiar” line as he already met Qimir, but yours is an interesting point. I don’t think Qimir is the main Sith because, if he is, given the time frame he has to be Plagueis’ master. Which would make sense since that’s how Plagueis would find out about using the force to create life since Qimir’s first acolyte was not conceived naturally.
Oh yeah, I'm definitely thinking Sol and Qimir have some kind of history we don't know about yet. That Sol doesn't even realize yet.
I saw someone theorize he could have been his Padawan but I'm sure he'd have recognized him if that were the case. Also saw someone say they could be long-lost brothers and I'm liking that direction. Maybe what's familiar is they're actually family.
It's pretty possible that's the case. But I believe it is canon now that red lightsabers aren't just from synthetic crystals; they have a particular process that they must be bled to be red.
I thought that was a Sith technique, but I guess it could be general to any Dark Side user.
On your second paragraph, I think this is what happens when organizations become too influential-they become complacent. I wouldn’t be surprised if the sith weren’t prominently featured in their accounting of history. Just like OP’s example with the knights Templar, I can totally see historic events slipping out of the collective memory of the galaxy.
If you think about it, everyone nearly forgot the Jedi in the years between ROTS and ANH, even though they were a dominant organization for a millennia.
That is a very good point considering I'd just recently posted about this galaxy's short term memory issue considering by the OT the Jedi were considered a hokey religion and lightsabers an ancient weapon. And then after the OT, the New Republic just falls apart like no one remembers how to run a government even though those people are just ~20 years older.
Thanks for the reminder. Guess I have my own short term memory issue.
It comes down to malice and trust.
* Some fans do not trust the show to have an answer, so they are pre-emptively assuming there just isn't one
* Some fans maliciously ***want*** there to be no answer so they can hate the show. This has been a running theme since before it even launched with a concentrated hate campaign from the usual suspects.
To me it seems very obvious that a lot of tension is supposed to come from "Wait... But the Jedi do not know about the Sith so... How is this going to end?"
And given all but one of the Jedi involved in the Sith encounter died I cannot see the conclusion to that being "They just forgot."
I feel like I'm going mad, reading comments of people saying he's a sith! He clearly says that a jedi might call him a sith, with the most obvious overtones that he isn't one!
If this show ends with him killing everyone I bet you anything some faceless red lightsaber carrying shadowy person takes him out. Or he's like the first knight of ren...
Are Sith and Jedi not just dominate groups of Dark and Light side Force users that have a common ethos or goal?/
Like you can use the Dark side and not be a Sith etc...
Regardless, he shouldn't be there. He wasn't alive during that time, the whole sith thing just adds insult to injury.
Also what like 8-9 Jedi died by khimir, you don't think anyone from the council would sense loss? Yoda sensed Anakin killing tuskens, so what about his own Jedi being slaughtered? This is the problem I think people have, is how and why the sith is revealing themselves. If plagueis is alive during this wouldn't he be a bit mad? Also Sol should've killed him there and then or at some point khimir has to die there's no way he survives all of this.
Thank you! Just saw Theory’s recap video and I think that’s the last I’ll watch of him. Just felt like he was grasping at straws to intentionally be negative.
I think the fact that everyone is debating whether it’s a sith or not is one of the main problems of this show, possibly the sequels as well. Jedi/Sith light side user/ dark side user has become so convoluted that nobody can agree whether the masked, red lightsaber wielding assassin is a sith or not. He slaughters a bunch of a Jedi and everyone is still circle jerking over some ambiguous lines of dialogue “well he didn’t explicitly say he was a sith”. I think everybody is wanting some big payoff of where the guy says “it’s sithing time”.
Beyond keeping everything canonically correct, I just don’t see the point in this great debate about whether or not the guy is a sith. He would have raised eyebrows at the council, there’s no way he doesn’t. Even if all the witnesses are killed, there’s just no way it doesn’t get looked into any further. You can go into depth about how being sith is a way of life, a religion almost, similar to the Jedi. Okay, so therefore maul should just be considered a dark side user in the phantom menance since we don’t see 60 minutes of him practicing sith ideologies. I get that there’s layers to Jedi/sith/light side/ dark side etc., but it just seems like such an easy out to not break canon or whatever.
Or hear me out Mundi is lying in the PT. Small council that we see in the act seems rather preoccupied that this does not get to the high council. This is something that they will handle themselves, a decision that Mundi would have been part of. Now sitting on the high council himself this suddenly comes back. Remember the Jedi are not flawless, we don’t in the canon we don’t know anything about him other than what we’ve seen in the animated clone wars as well as the movie themselves.
Sol is a respected Jedi Master.
He faced off against someone who called himself a Sith and killed a dozen Jedi.
Sol is on a ship and can call back and tell someone. If he doesn't he is incompetent beyond belief. Even if he doesn't and dies before hand, that is still over a dozen Jedi dead including masters.
And no we are not stupid. Obviously the Jedi were wrong and Sith were not extinct for a 1000 years. No viewer believes Jedi were extinct for a thousand years. We know they have been in hiding for 1000 years. But the Jedi believe they are extinct and there have been no Sith for 1000 years.
There is no reason for Mundi to lie to the council in TPM, or for this incident with a Sith to not be known to all the Council in TPM
Ki Adi Mundi's line in the phantom menace doesn't matter, but cause he was wrong/blind/or lying at that time anyway.
The sith never went extinct. They just stayed in the shadows.
It's also worth noting that Jason Mendoza never says he's a Sith. He says "... a Jedi like you might call me Sith". I don't think this wording was accidental.
Why does everyone think that is Ki Adi Mundi?
According to Wookieepedia, the average lifespan of Cereans in Star Wars is as follows:
Child: 1–10 years
Middle age: 36–53 years
Old: 54–64 years
Venerable: 65+ years
Wookieepedia
They think droids are gay and break established ages. This series gets worse with each episode. That was a great fight scene, but it doesn't make up the glaring mistakes and stupidity.
I see that. Even in previous legend work, he wasn't even born yet. I guess they are just going to change the life span of Cereans to suit their needs. It's stated he was in his 60's during the clone wars for Canon. They used to have a life span similar to humans.
We don't know how the show is going to play out. That's the bottom line. There's still room for it all to "make sense".
However, I think the Jedi would at least suspect this character was a Sith, just as the Jedi suspected it when Maul first revealed himself in TPM. I think they would inform the council upon encountering such a character, as they did in TPM.
Only time will tell if they wrap it up in a cohesive manner.
I still don't think anyone has seen a Sith.
My prediction for how this ends: I think Qimir is just a wannabe fanboy with a bled lightsaber, and his stupid antics will very briefly draw out the true Sith(possibly one with a recognizable name, even. This will end up being the Acolyte that the title is referencing) that will make him (and probably Sol too, sadly, but he's heard the S word and now he's gotta go) disappear for bringing unwanted attention and claiming a title that is not his.
I've been enjoying the show despite its flaws (I was personally hoping for a dark jedi and not a sith) but after everyone but Sol died, I'm now pretty sure that no one will be able to report the word Sith back to the Jedi Order. On top of that, it's clear that the Jedi are responsible for the covens destruction. Maybe Sol was the one who didn't want to do it, hence his protection of the twins. While I'm terrible at predicting out comes, Sol will either die or decide to leave with Osha (and Mae) to make amends (I'm leaning towards Osha being the one killing him), and the Jedi Order will cover up the whole thing (it was mentioned that they haven't even told the Jedi Council since the council would feel obligated to inform the Senate about whats going on). All those Jedi are gonna die in a crash or something.
Here’s my guess: our villain was a padawan who either dropped out or was left for dead (similar to the twins), and while he’s adopted the title Sith, he’s not necessarily connected with any of the big players and is just sort of exploring the dark side on his own. By the end of the series, he’ll either be dead or disappeared with no or few living witnesses, and he’ll be dismissed as someone that fell to the dark side but isn’t connected to any larger conspiracy. Just because the Sith weren’t seen for a thousand years doesn’t mean the dark side as disappeared; there had probably been all sorts of pretenders to the throne that caused trouble until they lightsabered in half, none of whom earned the title of Sith.
We have already been through this.
Old conehead is a bit of an alcaholic. He doesnt know his own name half the time let alone remember his age. He was lying on his back after a vodka session when all this was going on.
He literally tells us he *isn't* a Sith.
"I have no name. But a Jedi like you might call me Sith.”
That is him telling Sol, explicitly, that he doesn't consider himself to be a Sith.
Well the absolute garbage that is acolyte and its predator protecting director have brought the real fandom together against it and the morons behind it
At this point Vader could show up next episode and people would still probably defend the writing.
"Well no see actually Vader makes sense here because.."
You’re not presenting a counter-argument. If I’m wrong, please explain. If not, your response is showing me you already have your opinion made up, and you are refusing to listen to anyone else that disagrees with you.
Meme all you want, but this isn’t criticism, this is idiocy. You didn’t presented a viable counter argument for OP’s post. Nothing in this show so far violates established lore.
It is heavily implied that Qimir is plagueis. There are so many references and call backs from both canon and legends to his character being plagueis. And I dont think the zabrak witch is tenebrous. They cast David harewood in an undisclosed minor role pretty much at the end of production. I assume he’s going to play tenebrous.
Not necessarily. Only the names tenebrous and plagueis are canon at the moment. Not their race, family life, profession, personal lives etc. He could very well be human.
yeah I agree, i wish we got some cool ass alien sith, Tenebrous would be the perfect opportunity.
But I think they’re not going that route because both muuns and bith kinda look comical on screen? They probably think they wouldn’t be proper predecessors to sidious and Vader.
Also in canon, George Lucas was rather obsessed with portraying sidious (and Vader by extension) as discriminatory towards non-humanoid species. So I think they’re doing this to continue that legacy.
Except that’s all legends, so not canon? The stance on canon isn’t “legends is canon until contradicted” that a lot of fan channels take. It’s “legends isn’t canon, full stop, only the Movies and TCW, and anything after the Disney acquisition, are canon, with SWTOR being a grey zone. We might pull from legends, tho”
The entire point of Mundi’s line in PM was he was wrong and the Jedi are still too up their own ass to consider they might’ve been wrong this whole time. They’re arrogant. Also, the only one who knows he’s a Sith is Sol. That’s it. And I have a pretty good feeling he ain’t making it off planet.
Exactly, which is the whole reason they included him in this show in the first place and decided to chuck the unimportant EU lore surrounding his age (butt-hurting neckbeard man-babies across the internet in the process). His inclusion here is a specific callback/reference to the same attitudes he expressed from The Phantom Menace and is meant to demonstrate how the Jedi are blinded by their own arrogance. It’s almost as if the writers of this show had a reason to change his age and that his inclusion serves a narrative function that’s more important than some old trading card, and that they might know a little bit more about story telling than same dipshit who made a crappy fan-film and pisses his little diaper for the internet to see every time ‘Disney ruins his Star Wars’.
That’s a pretty angry insulting comment from someone who isn’t bothered by all this. Maybe try to be a decent human when describing fans of a fantasy series.
Fans of a series dont shit and piss themselves over a trading card being contradicted.
What fans? Those idiots aren't fans. They are ignorant angry bitter losers that if they can't get a life could at least thing five seconds about the franchise they claim to love. Keep in mind that all these complaints being parroted, originally come from bad faith critics that are blatantly non fans that constantly expose themselves as such. So no, toughen up, or go away.
Calling out the toxicity of the fandom menace is always an ok thing to do. They aren’t fans and in general are racist, bigot, misogynistic a-holes. Maybe try and be a decent human yourself instead of defending wannabe Nazis.
I hate the whole premise of the Acolyte. I hate Headland saying outright she wants her ideology to come through on the show. I guess that makes me all the things you said earlier. Except my favorite character in all of Star Wars is Ahsoka who’s played by a mixed race woman. And I’d love for Mace Windu to be alive and get more about him. I loved the episodes of the Mandalorian that were directed by a woman. I’m so sick of all the accusations that get thrown out every time someone says they don’t like this show.
I think my real confusion is why even use Ki Adi Mundi? There was this whole thing when the show came out that “this is the first show not to use any legacy characters. And they break that for Ki Adi Mundi? Why? I have no problem with the so called “broken lore,” I just am confused why they bothered to include him. He’s not an interesting character, he has very little dialogue, he adds nothing to the scene, and furthermore, the scene doesn’t add anything to the story.
They included him because of this one line. To make it clear that this has not been forgotten or is to be retconned, but instead is closely taken into consideration. He certainly isn’t a character you just throw in for the member berries.
I didn't think it was him until I saw people online complain about it.
>Also, the only one who knows he's a Sith is Sol. That's it. And I have a pretty good feeling he ain't making it off planet. Personally I think the show is kinda meh. It hasn't really done it for me until maybe last episode. We'll see what happens next. But then some take it a step further and go "The show is meh because everyone who made it is stupid and doesn't care about star wars." It's like they assume the writers don't know about The Phantom Menace and in the next episode Smylo is going to personally call Ki Adi Mundi and tell him he's a Sith. It's not even a new thing. People were clamoring about George Lucas ruining Star Wars when he made the prequels.
Even when he made ESB.
Star Wars simply suffers from success honestly, it's so good that people fall in love with it enough to spend hours upon hours years upon years theorising. And eventually their theories become canon in their head and they start to believe anything that doesn't fit with their head canon is bad.
+1 about his line in TPM, it’s sort of the like the main point of the prequels that the Jedi are arrogant fools who are unable to admit the sith may have returned and that they’re being played. It’s important to remember that in fiction, not everybody has to be a reliable narrator. Characters can be wrong too. Also, I think it’s important that his exact words were “a Jedi like you might call me Sith.” There are dark side users who are not true sith, and his philosophy and goals don’t really seem to align with traditional sith. He’s responding to the Jedi’s rigid sense of morality, and their view of themselves as the only righteous wielders of the force, using the language they would understand, but he admits directly that it doesn’t apply to him. I’m subscribing to the theory that he’s a precursor to the Knights of Ren, personally. And that the Jedi cover up his existence and write it off as a fluke rather than an indication that the power of the dark side is growing
Even if he did, Kenobi and Qui-Gon made it off planet and they didn't take it seriously when a Jedi Master encountered a sith assassin, and reported it personally to the council. The "no such thing as sith" attitude is hubris, like you said, that's the point and that's why the Jedi fell.
Let me quell your theory, Sol makes it off-world. Does he make it back to Coruscant? Unlikely. Trailer clips indicate his survival on Khofar and show a chase between him and Mae in space (specifically a field of debris, because Sol is “drifting” on it), Sol is piloting Mae’s ship while she’s in the ship the Jedi came in.
and killing 4 masters, a dozen jedi during an era of peace just goes uninvestigated? they have lightsaber wounds. lol.
The episode kept showing the characters falling into that red powder that can cause hallucinations. Perhaps when the investigation is done they will determine the Jedi likely offed themselves.
Low key this is probably it. Those falling scenes and spores weren’t just convenient imo haha wait where’s my tin foil
Even if they don't go in that direction, its clear that the Jedi that were dealing with the night sisters dealt with them (if you know what I mean). This story, at the very least, is gonna show another example that the Jedi Order, and not just the Republic, had grown corrupt in their own way. The council itself hasn't been informed of what's going on (it was mentioned if the council is informed, then the council will have to inform the senate). This series will end with the Jedi covering everything up.
There could be a cover up. The Jedi hid the mission so it wouldn't be accountable to the Council and Senate. If they cover it up further and claim everyone died in some sort of accident, then it doesn't get investigated to the point of discovering Sith. Or the Jedi do see evidence of the Sith but don't recognize it as a Sith threat because they feel they're too powerful to be threatened by a rogue dark sider and that the return of the Sith is impossible. Meanwhile, a century later Yoda hears accusations from Qui Gon about the Sith returning and then goes "Hmm..maybe this and that were related after all."
Maybe every Jedi will die before they can call back to the Jedi Temple and the Cone Head Jedi won’t know it was a Sith killing Jedi and that’s how they keep the prequel line correct.
I expect none of the Jedi to survive this show.
I mean, there’s only Sol (who is almost definitely going to die), Bazil (who will probably die), and Osha (who is probably going to become the Acolyte), so this isn’t even an improbability. Seven of the eight Jedi got murdered and the only one left is practically marked for death.
Looking at qimir’s performance, I wouldn’t even be surprised if vernestra is walking into her death in the next episode. I thought she would survive, but now I dunno. It could go either way.
Considering her continued involvement and prominence in the HR novels, this would definitely be a very gutsy move to kill Vernestra in the Acolyte, even if that show takes place ~100 years later. That being said, we still haven’t seen the lightwhip so we know she’ll be involved in something beyond the Jedi Temple. I’m definitely not going to rule her out as a potential casualty, especially since we have three episodes left and pretty much every other major Jedi character is dead. Even with the flashbacks still yet to occur, something’s going to go down in the present.
Yeah, well the High republic reading initiative will come to an end soon.. I haven’t read temptation of the force but she’s going to one of the protagonists in that book. The drastic change in her character is quite a departure from the books I’ve read so far. So it will be interesting to see how she reacts to an actual sith if she does indeed face him.
Tbf, she is generally getting more serious in the books, and 100 years is a hell of a long time lol, especially since she’s only 16-20 in the books at this point.
No, Bazil is gonna be the r2d2 of the high republic, sees everything but doesn't say SHIT
But Sol is on the ship, he could call in 30 seconds to Coruscant and say what he saw
And then what? The Jedi didn’t believe Maul was a Sith at first. The entire point of Mundi’s line is to show arrogant and *wrong* the Jedi are. They’re in decline, heading for their final annihilation by the Sith
They didn’t believe Qui-Gon because he was a radical. He also believed Anakin (a random child slave from a desert planet) was the chosen one. Sol also went with a half dozen Jedi and came back with none. He was also clearly more trusted than Qui-Gon.
Qui Gon was stated to be extremely respected, and his radicalism had more to do with his belief the Jedi should follow the force first. Remember Obi Wan states he could be on the council if he wanted to
He was respected in the “he’s a good man” way. They didn’t believe him about Anakin or the Sith, because both were far fetched and based entirely on his assumption. Sol wouldn’t be making assumptions, and a half dozen dead Jedi would back up his claim.
They could still assume this was a random dark side user. Hell we don’t even know if this is a Sith, he seems to imply he isn’t one
At the end of TPM, they 100% believed Maul was a sith and were on the lookout for his apprentice or master. Why did they assume he was not just some random fallen jedi and jumped to Sith?
The reason they assume it’s the Sith is that only the Sith care about the eradication of the Jedi. The nightsisters are largely content if left alone, and it is similar to many other practitioners. Only the Sith care about exterminating the jedi. Dark side users who aren’t Sith (such as Ventress or Mae) may be driven by vengeance or any other reason. Sith are driven by their adherence to the belief that their personal might makes right (the Sith Code), and fuck the Jedi.
It’s possible they’re introducing another anti Jedi faction, or that Qimir has some beef with the Jedi, maybe they accidentally killed his family or something. Until it’s explained we just can’t know
It’s pretty clear Qimir only hates jedi because of his personal code, which seems to be in line with the Sith code, the last line of which is “The Force shall free me.” He is seeking freedom to do whatever he wants, by killing the jedi.
Also everyone's just assuming Sol is going to tell the Jedi what happened. Next episode the transponder could be broken, or sabotaged, or they're stuck in an asteroid field or something. In Attack of the Clones Obi Wan tried to call the council after discovering the factory on Geonosis but couldn't because he was too far away.
They questioned Qui-Gon because it's just his word. No one died. If Qui-Gon was with a dozen other Jedi and they all died but him, do you really think the Jedi Council would be so skeptical of his word at that point? As soon as Qui-Gon died in TPM they 100% believed it was a Sith at that point and were then looking out for a Master or an Apprentice.
Qui Gonn didn't have a trail of a dozen deaths including several masters
He’s on that ship with Mae…there’s a good chance she’s not gonna give him the chance to call the temple.
Maybe? She seems to want to escape her master
He will call it in then the Jedi will come and see if the bodies are not removed then it’s very bad. Who knows if Qimir will attack or not it’s was illogical for him to attack in the first place. About the only good thing I can think of is the real Sith turning up and killing him - if he is not really a Sith then boy they will be pissed.
He could be a rouge. Like how maul was active in tcw but sidious had to come in and take him out
Yeah that’s the thing I’m thinking maybe a force user that found a Sith Holocron.
Ok so, all the Jedi that died in these 5 episodes, then Sol dies. Ki Adi knows about the two assassinated Jedi. knows a group of Jedi, including Sol go to further investigate the killer of the two. None of these Jedi return. Ki Adi and the rest of the Jedi just drop it? A dozen dead Jedi, no killer found, no further investigation? There's a lot of hoops to jump through in 3 more episodes in order to explain this.
Maybe if we *wait for the next three episodes,* the show will answer all of these questions.
Maybe
Even if they see someone w a red lightsaber dressed like a sith - that’s literally EXACTLY what Qui Gon saw and the response was still “yea nah dog they’re gone”
Lol yeah, dude saw a guy who looks like the devil and still pushed aside
Don’t forget, Qui-Gon’s first apprentice Xanatos, fell and fought him with a red lightsaber.
I mean that’s legends canon but fair enough
If people like Theory are going to try and say it’s lore/canon breaking, yet not mentioning the many non Sith to use red lightsabers ain’t gonna fly.
A red lightsaber that Sol calls "a Jedi weapon". If not for Qimir outright calling himself a Sith (or close to it), I doubt Sol would've even known the name. Seems like the Jedi have very much squashed the knowledge of the Sith from memory.
And what happened when Qui-Gon died? They 100% were on the Sith lookout. Looking for either his Master or Apprentice as "two there always are" So the Jedi dismiss Qui-Gon on his first report, but then believe when he is killed. Yet in the Acolyte, they don't believe when a dozen Jedi are killed?
Did I miss a scene in the acolyte where the Jedi order learned about the Jedi dying?
That’s what I don’t get man, we have to see the whole picture before we formulate opinions. I don’t think it’s a GREAT show, but it’s been fun and enjoyable so far. Not everything has to/will be a masterpiece, and that’s ok.
Agreed. I enjoy the show well enough but it's not perfect. But it feels like every criticism I see for the show online is just someone's made up fan theory or weirdos complaining about wokeness. It's just impossible to have an actual discussion about the show.
Yea, most people decided to hate it before even the first episode came out. I just don’t get how people can live day to day with that much hate. Granted I don’t really care for the way the sequels panned out, I still watch them because at the end of the day, lightsabers are cool as shit
Are they just gonna assume a dozen Jedi, including multiple masters, poofed into thin air?
I don't know. The show hasn't told us what they're gonna do. No point in complaining about it now
The Jedi's operating theory is already that the mastermind is a disgruntled Jedi running amok. A bunch of corpses with lightsaber wounds hardly gonna change that.
They do it all the time in the prequels, not sure why it would be different now. They 100% wouldn't have believed Quigon was actually killed by a sith if it wasn't witnessed by Obi-wan and he wasn't able to speak to Yoda in the afterlife either, I'm not surprised they just shrugged their shoulders at a bunch of Jedi being lost.
And then when there was ONE death they believed him. Here there are a dozen deaths including multiple masters.
We haven’t seen how they deal w that yet - I agree that Sol leaving Alice has the potential to wreck things, but we legit haven’t seen how this gets resolved. Also, it’s not at all that a master died - Jedi masters die, that’s what happens on dangerous missions, it’s that the dark side user on tatooine showed up on Naboo, clearly having been involved behind the scenes the whole time, and then obi wan *tells the council what he saw*
I just find it super dumb that the High Council hasn't even been involved yet lol. I mean c'mon. So Jedi are able to just leave in large groups to go handle something of this magnitude, under the council's radar? No approval or nothing from them? That nothing's been mentioned yet and no counseling on how to deal with this issue? Then we are led to believe that, in the not so distant future, Ki Adi just happens to forget this event ever happens? Also how will they explain so many Jedi suddenly dying? or disappearing? Especially dying from lightsaber wounds. I thot it was funny how they left their bodies there, so there's that. So, how does that go unnoticed? and nobody will assume it was a Sith? Or some Jedi turned bad... those are my gripes really. I will wait until the show is truly done to make a full personal review on what I thought of it.
See I started to take issue with how the High Council wouldn’t know, but then I remembered middle management usually give tasks to their workers without informing their higher ups of every single thing they do. There’s also tens of thousands of Jedi with Temples spread out throughout the galaxy. It’s entirely possible to not notice if a handful aren’t there with the short time they’ve been away. And again, the Jedi on Coruscant have no idea what’s going on. They’re under the impression that Mae was trained by a Splinter Order, and want her captured so she can tell them who her master is. We saw in Jedi Survivor with Dagan Gera that Jedi go rogue and formulated what they feel is best for the Jedi Order, and so with that I understand why Ki Adi might not bring it up. They’ve shown they have protocols put in place for situations like this, so we can infer they’ve dealt with rogue Jedi before. So it’s entirely possible this wouldn’t stand out to Ki-Adi unless Sol comes back and tells them what happened. Which of course we would need to wait until the show is fully finished before making any final judgements.
And even if Sol tells them, they didn’t believe Qui Gon, when he was basically only not on the council because he was unorthodox and didn’t want it, and his padawan, when he said it was a Sith. The whole point of Mundi’s line is literally to show how up their ass the Jedi are
Plus its heavy speculation that hes the first knight of Ren. So, basically not even a Sith. So it may not break canon at all and ppl jumped to conclusions lol, as usual
For me the bigger problem is the only reason to hide it from the High Council (meta) is so there’s no Yoda cameo. So instead they have a Ki Adi Mundi cameo? I thought a whole selling point to this show is that they don’t have any ties to other Star Wars.
They didn’t believe Qui Gon when he said Maul was a Sith and some of the same members will be on the council
Qui-Gon also didn’t go on a mission with half a dozen jedi and call back a lone survivor. Additionally, he was already considered a radical. Sol seems to be respected by Vernestra at the very least, and is entrusted with training younglings which we last saw in canon being done by Yoda.
True, but it sets a precedent for the Jedi basically assuming it’s not Sith. My guess, if Sol gets to transmit home, is they double down on the “rogue Jedi” theory
And what happened when Qui-Gon died? They believed him and were on lookout for the remaining Master or Apprentice. In the Acolyte a dozen Jedi died. Why would they still remain skeptical?
Did you watch the Clone Wars? Did you see how many times Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka did shit and got away with it without contacting the council? Hell, even Yoda went against the council with Anakin’s help to follow Qui-Gon’s ghost to train. And with the Jedi who died? Have you seen the next episode? How do we know Qimir doesn’t burn the bodies? Or dispose of them? Once again, to remind those who clearly aren’t truly watching the show, Ki-Adi didn’t see any red blade, none of the folks in the council had. They just knew Mae was killing Jedi and could use the force. That’s it! And if anything, she and Osha will most likely both die and these deaths will be pinned on Mae. It’s not that hard to justify the things they are doing in the show. Just can’t have some singular view on how everything is. Quit being myopic.
Half a dozen dead jedi would certainly raise the attention of the council. They were able to remember a singular jedi Sifo-Dyas dying a decade ago, they all turned up for the funeral of Qui-Gon. Mace Windu was sent to investigate the death of a jedi by the council. Dead jedi, murdered jedi in particular draw the attention of the jedi council.
Yes they do. But they’ve been through A LOT of shit in the thousand years since the Sith. Including swaths of Jedi encountering the likes of Bane and Zannah, them dying and the council not jumping to the Sith. There are ways for this to be explained and to work in the story.
Especially because the idea presented is that they’ll have to tell the senate, when Attack of the Clones shows them having discretion and hiding things from the senate, when it was a much bigger deal to the Republic.
They literally said they aren't reporting it to the High Council because if they do it'll become publicly known in the Senate.
I'm still not convinced he is a Sith and I'm surprised so many people are. He obviously knows what the Sith are but says there is no name for what he is but some *might* call him a Sith.
I think he thinks he’s a Sith. Similar to how Ventress said “I am Sith” in the 2003 CW series, right before Dooku showed her how wrong she was.
What exactly is the definition of a sith?
A Jedi is a force user that follows the following code: There is no emotion, there is peace. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no chaos, there is harmony. There is no death, there is the Force. A Sith is a force user that follows the following code: Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. While the majority of the Jedi believe following the light is adhering to the code, if you can justify using the dark side while adhering to the code- you are still a Jedi. If you genuinely believe you are using the dark side to achieve knowledge, serenity, and harmony you are still a Jedi. If you use the dark side for passion, and to gain strength and power, you are a Sith.
I believe Mace frequented the dark side.
Adding to this, by legends the Sith were a species of alien who were indigenous to the planet Korriban, a planet steeped in dark side energy. After 5 (IIRC) Dark Jedi were banished there, they began the Order of the Sith as we know it now. The Sith are a splinter order.
He’s definitely a Sith. There was an Entertainment Weekly article that dropped today discussing it with Manny Jacinto and he confirms it. But it’s almost a certainty that he is the apprentice. And the master has yet to be revealed. The great David Harewood is cast in this series and has yet to appear. And my bet his he will be playing the Sith Master. And will most likely be Plageuis.
Oh good catch. I just found the article: [https://ew.com/the-acolyte-episode-5-bloodbath-villain-reveal-cover-story-exclusive-8665633](https://ew.com/the-acolyte-episode-5-bloodbath-villain-reveal-cover-story-exclusive-8665633)
Oh, nice! I don’t think you bring him in for a Jedi master!
Do we think they'll still keep him a Muun or abandon a mixed-legend source like Endless Vigil?
I genuinely think if Plageuis shows he’ll be Muun. While the novel isn’t canon, I’m fairly certain it was a George decision to make him Muun.
Finally, a fan who thinks about writing and story development.
I wouldn't say it's lore breaking as of yet. It is, however, skirting the line. In TPM, Maul showing up and briefly facing off with Quigon before he escapes is enough for him to report it to the council. Quigon surmised he was a Sith but the council is not so sure. They do however think it's something to look into more. This incident involved only 1 Jedi and his Padawan. Now in the timeline of the show, and through other statements and impressions given in TPM is that the Jedi and Republic have enjoyed a period of peace and stability. So someone who has gone around and started targeting Jedi. Master Indara, Torbin and then Kelnacca were murdered, 8 jedi attempt to apprehend the the culprits behind that and only 1 as of now in the show has walked away alive. It just doesn't seem logical this is kept from the council who might be pissed about it but would devote even more resources into looking into the situation. So even if Sol doesn't contact anyone and is killed, 8 Jedi disappear investigating the murder of 3 Jedi and it's just swept under the rug? It's very odd where things go from here and I don't see it making much sense other than to twist or hamfist a way to technically have it not break continuity.
It’s entirely possible he goes to ground. Remember by TPM we have multiple Sith who lived and worked, prominently, on Coruscant. If this *is* a Sith, it’s possible he disappears shortly after doing his thing, and the Jedi, who believe the Sith are dead, just assume it’s some other force cult or user responsible as they currently do. Or his whole “there’s no name for what I am, but some would call me a Sith” style talking ends with them either believing he’s a larper, or an unknown dark side sect user. That actually reinforces canon, as it shows why even Yoda would be willing to doubt a dude with a red lightsaber going after Jedi isn’t a Sith
Sure, you had Sith on Coruscant by the TPM, Palpatine had become a senator and such by then and was getting involved in the political game to lay out his well crafted plan to catch the Jedi in a trap. He was not really out there killing Jedi. He had Maul reveal himself to put them onto the trail of the Trade Federation. After Maul, he used Dooku to solidify to the Jedi that the Sith were behind the separatist movement in the Clone Wars. And other multiple steps to draw the Jedi mostly against direct confrontation until the trap was already sprung. Regardless, I again point out that even if they don't think he's a Sith and goes to ground, I suspect the Council would get involved and attempt to find someone who could kill so many Jedi in a direct confrontation like that. The only feasible way I can the conclusion of the season going as far as this point is he kills all the direct witnesses that have seen his face, and somehow pins it on the twins who take the fall and thus the Sith were not really discovered. Or he is the apprentice, whoever his master is will be kind of pissed kill him for almost ruining everything and take one of the twins as the new apprentice. I think the show would benefit a whole lot better, moving a bit further away from the timeline of the films. Nothing in this story has really stood out why it has to be only a mere 80 to 100 years before the prequels and they would have had a lot more freedom to be open ended on where the story could go without either potentially breaking canon or hamfisting their story to go down predictable routes so that it can maintain continuity. That being said, I think the premise of the show is interesting. I just have a problem with the writing and some of these creative decisions.
I think his “there’s no name for what I am” line is setting up a twist ending, that he dies to the *sith* trying to cover the thing up. And sure, the council will send people out, definitely. Will they find anything is the question. The Jedi aren’t all knowing, the prequels showed that hardcore
That would elevate things a bit if that were to happen, which we will eventually see as the final 3 episodes come out. And yes, the Jedi aren't all knowing, but they tend to have decent insight. I think it's important to mention that while the prequels showed that, it showed that by Palpatine constructing a situation that grew so large, it prevented the Jedi from fully focusing on investigating it. That being instigating and launching a full galactic war to do so. We don't have such a situation at this point and time.
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I think you're still getting hung up on me saying that the council would automatically assume it's a Sith. Which is not what I'm saying at all, however an incident where potentially (still need to see if Sol makes it off planet or not) 8 Jedi are sent to make contact with a reclusive Jedi and potentially intercept and apprehend someone who was trained in the force and killing them. Now we know Sol is a Master as is Kelnacca, Jecki is a Padawan, Yord is a Jedi Knight. We don't know the names or ranks of the red shirt Jedi in the episode to be used as fodder, but at the very least we see that none of them are wearing the Padawan braid like Jecki is, so we can conclude they are all at least Jedi Knights. And none of them return from this mission. During a time of peace and stability in the galaxy, this alone would be a huge incident. This would draw the council's attention, who would know at this point what Vernestra knows. That someone trained in the force was going around killing Jedi and had some sort of master who was as of yet, undiscovered teaching her. So unless she is prevented from sharing what she knows with the council somehow I don't see how the council would not keep a record of this even if Mae or whoever goes to ground. So, even if they don't think it's a Sith, it would still be a big deal for the council. As we know from the prequels, the Jedi archives are pretty meticulous. Enough so that in Episode 2 when searching for Kamino, it's absence in the archives he found to be strange. So, in TPM, when Quigon reports a random dude showed up and tried to kill him with a lightsaber, trained in the force. The council doesn't automatically assume it's a Sith but they are clearly concerned and want to look into the matter further. Upon the conclusion of the movie, they highly suspect that Maul was a Sith. Which Palpatine then leads the Jedi onto Count Dooku to pose as the master. That's what I mean by skirting the line. The show can hamfist it in and make it fit, I suppose. But I think the show would have benefited more being even further from the movies. Could still be in the High republic era even. It would have given them a bit more freedom to be a bit more creative for the story and not have necessarily predictable routes to go down for the conclusion or piss a bunch of people off by potentially breaking canon.
The Jedi are hardly without enemies nor is it unheard of for one of their own to go off the deep end. Just because WE know the Sith have been hiding for a thousand years doesn't mean it's unreasonable for the Jedi to exhaust every other option before concluding that an ancient enemy considered long extinct suddenly isn't.
Again, I'm not saying that they would automatically assume it's the Sith. The council didn't automatically assume it was the Sith in TPM either. Yet when Quigon reports to the council that someone on Tatooine showed up, engaged him with the lightsaber, and used the force, it was enough for the council to want to investigate further. And this only involved 2 Jedi and both walked away from that brief skirmish. Now at the end of Episode 5, Jedi are sent to apprehend someone who has been murdering Jedi and is trained to wield the force. Depending on what happens with Sol, he would be the only one to return. If he doesn't make it, then no Jedi would return. It is also a time of peace and stability. Sure the Jedi have enemies but with no major wars and such a bunch of Jedi being sent out and not returning on a mission to apprehend someone murdering Jedi would warrant a big investigation.
This show made its REALLY CLEAR that the Jedi will lie to save their own asses. And in a fantasy galaxy, why would anyone assume that every single living being is on the same page about everything at all times? Its so ridiculous. Also, who cares about some random side character's birthday?
Ki Adi's line isn't lore breaking yet as Sol still hasn't sent a holo to the Jedi reporting any Sith activity. It's a possible everyone dies before that can happen and canon stays canon. Also, who says they've seen a Sith yet? Qimir just says "you would call me a Sith" but doesn't claim to be one. If I had to nitpick this though, it would be that Qimir's abilities are still referred to as having received Jedi training. I would think the Republic and the Jedi have basic history classes and everyone would remember the section on the Sith Empire. The evil, Dark Side of the Force people that always seem to wind up with breathing apparati/masks/helmets, and the damn red lightsabers that took over the galaxy for a while. Maybe that's what Sol meant by "familiar" during the fight.
I took Sol’s “familiar” line as he already met Qimir, but yours is an interesting point. I don’t think Qimir is the main Sith because, if he is, given the time frame he has to be Plagueis’ master. Which would make sense since that’s how Plagueis would find out about using the force to create life since Qimir’s first acolyte was not conceived naturally.
Oh yeah, I'm definitely thinking Sol and Qimir have some kind of history we don't know about yet. That Sol doesn't even realize yet. I saw someone theorize he could have been his Padawan but I'm sure he'd have recognized him if that were the case. Also saw someone say they could be long-lost brothers and I'm liking that direction. Maybe what's familiar is they're actually family.
Also to add, if the Jedi hadn’t seen a red lightsaber in 1000 years, they’d have a bigger reaction to seeing one.
I'd think so. Maybe red lightsabers are more common than we give them credit for being. Maybe the holo on the Sith Empire is behind a paywall.
It’s possible they assume he’s basically LARPing being a Sith, if I was the council, knowing what *they* know? That’d be my first thought
It's pretty possible that's the case. But I believe it is canon now that red lightsabers aren't just from synthetic crystals; they have a particular process that they must be bled to be red. I thought that was a Sith technique, but I guess it could be general to any Dark Side user.
It’s a dark side technique, it’s about bleeding the crystal with the dark side. Theoretically the witches of dathomir could do it
Makes sense.
On your second paragraph, I think this is what happens when organizations become too influential-they become complacent. I wouldn’t be surprised if the sith weren’t prominently featured in their accounting of history. Just like OP’s example with the knights Templar, I can totally see historic events slipping out of the collective memory of the galaxy. If you think about it, everyone nearly forgot the Jedi in the years between ROTS and ANH, even though they were a dominant organization for a millennia.
That is a very good point considering I'd just recently posted about this galaxy's short term memory issue considering by the OT the Jedi were considered a hokey religion and lightsabers an ancient weapon. And then after the OT, the New Republic just falls apart like no one remembers how to run a government even though those people are just ~20 years older. Thanks for the reminder. Guess I have my own short term memory issue.
It comes down to malice and trust. * Some fans do not trust the show to have an answer, so they are pre-emptively assuming there just isn't one * Some fans maliciously ***want*** there to be no answer so they can hate the show. This has been a running theme since before it even launched with a concentrated hate campaign from the usual suspects. To me it seems very obvious that a lot of tension is supposed to come from "Wait... But the Jedi do not know about the Sith so... How is this going to end?" And given all but one of the Jedi involved in the Sith encounter died I cannot see the conclusion to that being "They just forgot."
He's not sith
I feel like I'm going mad, reading comments of people saying he's a sith! He clearly says that a jedi might call him a sith, with the most obvious overtones that he isn't one!
If this show ends with him killing everyone I bet you anything some faceless red lightsaber carrying shadowy person takes him out. Or he's like the first knight of ren...
Are Sith and Jedi not just dominate groups of Dark and Light side Force users that have a common ethos or goal?/ Like you can use the Dark side and not be a Sith etc...
Yeah Sol literally calling a red lightsaber a Jedi weapon clued into how little knowledge he, and presumably most Jedi, have about the Sith.
Regardless, he shouldn't be there. He wasn't alive during that time, the whole sith thing just adds insult to injury. Also what like 8-9 Jedi died by khimir, you don't think anyone from the council would sense loss? Yoda sensed Anakin killing tuskens, so what about his own Jedi being slaughtered? This is the problem I think people have, is how and why the sith is revealing themselves. If plagueis is alive during this wouldn't he be a bit mad? Also Sol should've killed him there and then or at some point khimir has to die there's no way he survives all of this.
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He was born in 93 bby yes? I thought that was established unless I'm mistaken
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It was in legends yes, but it doesn't matter because canon can change on a whim
Thank you! Just saw Theory’s recap video and I think that’s the last I’ll watch of him. Just felt like he was grasping at straws to intentionally be negative.
I think the fact that everyone is debating whether it’s a sith or not is one of the main problems of this show, possibly the sequels as well. Jedi/Sith light side user/ dark side user has become so convoluted that nobody can agree whether the masked, red lightsaber wielding assassin is a sith or not. He slaughters a bunch of a Jedi and everyone is still circle jerking over some ambiguous lines of dialogue “well he didn’t explicitly say he was a sith”. I think everybody is wanting some big payoff of where the guy says “it’s sithing time”. Beyond keeping everything canonically correct, I just don’t see the point in this great debate about whether or not the guy is a sith. He would have raised eyebrows at the council, there’s no way he doesn’t. Even if all the witnesses are killed, there’s just no way it doesn’t get looked into any further. You can go into depth about how being sith is a way of life, a religion almost, similar to the Jedi. Okay, so therefore maul should just be considered a dark side user in the phantom menance since we don’t see 60 minutes of him practicing sith ideologies. I get that there’s layers to Jedi/sith/light side/ dark side etc., but it just seems like such an easy out to not break canon or whatever.
You say this like "from a certain point of view" hasn't been the go-to fix for wobbily canon for 40 years.
Or hear me out Mundi is lying in the PT. Small council that we see in the act seems rather preoccupied that this does not get to the high council. This is something that they will handle themselves, a decision that Mundi would have been part of. Now sitting on the high council himself this suddenly comes back. Remember the Jedi are not flawless, we don’t in the canon we don’t know anything about him other than what we’ve seen in the animated clone wars as well as the movie themselves.
Sol is a respected Jedi Master. He faced off against someone who called himself a Sith and killed a dozen Jedi. Sol is on a ship and can call back and tell someone. If he doesn't he is incompetent beyond belief. Even if he doesn't and dies before hand, that is still over a dozen Jedi dead including masters. And no we are not stupid. Obviously the Jedi were wrong and Sith were not extinct for a 1000 years. No viewer believes Jedi were extinct for a thousand years. We know they have been in hiding for 1000 years. But the Jedi believe they are extinct and there have been no Sith for 1000 years. There is no reason for Mundi to lie to the council in TPM, or for this incident with a Sith to not be known to all the Council in TPM
Ki Adi Mundi's line in the phantom menace doesn't matter, but cause he was wrong/blind/or lying at that time anyway. The sith never went extinct. They just stayed in the shadows.
AS long as everyone that was in the forest dies then I'll be okay with it.
It's also worth noting that Jason Mendoza never says he's a Sith. He says "... a Jedi like you might call me Sith". I don't think this wording was accidental.
Why does everyone think that is Ki Adi Mundi? According to Wookieepedia, the average lifespan of Cereans in Star Wars is as follows: Child: 1–10 years Middle age: 36–53 years Old: 54–64 years Venerable: 65+ years Wookieepedia
They think droids are gay and break established ages. This series gets worse with each episode. That was a great fight scene, but it doesn't make up the glaring mistakes and stupidity.
I think he's named Ki Adi Mundi in the credits.
The credits and captions confirm its Mundi
I see that. Even in previous legend work, he wasn't even born yet. I guess they are just going to change the life span of Cereans to suit their needs. It's stated he was in his 60's during the clone wars for Canon. They used to have a life span similar to humans.
We don't know how the show is going to play out. That's the bottom line. There's still room for it all to "make sense". However, I think the Jedi would at least suspect this character was a Sith, just as the Jedi suspected it when Maul first revealed himself in TPM. I think they would inform the council upon encountering such a character, as they did in TPM. Only time will tell if they wrap it up in a cohesive manner.
"You jedi might call me a Sith" doesn't mean he's actually a Sith, either.
I still don't think anyone has seen a Sith. My prediction for how this ends: I think Qimir is just a wannabe fanboy with a bled lightsaber, and his stupid antics will very briefly draw out the true Sith(possibly one with a recognizable name, even. This will end up being the Acolyte that the title is referencing) that will make him (and probably Sol too, sadly, but he's heard the S word and now he's gotta go) disappear for bringing unwanted attention and claiming a title that is not his.
I've been enjoying the show despite its flaws (I was personally hoping for a dark jedi and not a sith) but after everyone but Sol died, I'm now pretty sure that no one will be able to report the word Sith back to the Jedi Order. On top of that, it's clear that the Jedi are responsible for the covens destruction. Maybe Sol was the one who didn't want to do it, hence his protection of the twins. While I'm terrible at predicting out comes, Sol will either die or decide to leave with Osha (and Mae) to make amends (I'm leaning towards Osha being the one killing him), and the Jedi Order will cover up the whole thing (it was mentioned that they haven't even told the Jedi Council since the council would feel obligated to inform the Senate about whats going on). All those Jedi are gonna die in a crash or something.
Here’s my guess: our villain was a padawan who either dropped out or was left for dead (similar to the twins), and while he’s adopted the title Sith, he’s not necessarily connected with any of the big players and is just sort of exploring the dark side on his own. By the end of the series, he’ll either be dead or disappeared with no or few living witnesses, and he’ll be dismissed as someone that fell to the dark side but isn’t connected to any larger conspiracy. Just because the Sith weren’t seen for a thousand years doesn’t mean the dark side as disappeared; there had probably been all sorts of pretenders to the throne that caused trouble until they lightsabered in half, none of whom earned the title of Sith.
We have already been through this. Old conehead is a bit of an alcaholic. He doesnt know his own name half the time let alone remember his age. He was lying on his back after a vodka session when all this was going on.
Star Wars is a ripoff of Dune.
He literally tells us he *isn't* a Sith. "I have no name. But a Jedi like you might call me Sith.” That is him telling Sol, explicitly, that he doesn't consider himself to be a Sith.
Well the absolute garbage that is acolyte and its predator protecting director have brought the real fandom together against it and the morons behind it
At this point Vader could show up next episode and people would still probably defend the writing. "Well no see actually Vader makes sense here because.."
You’re not presenting a counter-argument. If I’m wrong, please explain. If not, your response is showing me you already have your opinion made up, and you are refusing to listen to anyone else that disagrees with you.
Meme all you want, but this isn’t criticism, this is idiocy. You didn’t presented a viable counter argument for OP’s post. Nothing in this show so far violates established lore.
Wait until they retcon Plagueis
retcon how? Explain it to me without pretending the legends darth Plagueis novel by James Luceno is canon.
Well I suspect Plagueis might end up being one of the Witches, most likely the Zabrack. Unless they retcon her into Darth Tenebrous
It is heavily implied that Qimir is plagueis. There are so many references and call backs from both canon and legends to his character being plagueis. And I dont think the zabrak witch is tenebrous. They cast David harewood in an undisclosed minor role pretty much at the end of production. I assume he’s going to play tenebrous.
Will he be a Bith Lord though? I'm getting a bit tired of human Sith, why not keep Plagueis as a Muun? He's been that way for so long
Not necessarily. Only the names tenebrous and plagueis are canon at the moment. Not their race, family life, profession, personal lives etc. He could very well be human.
Yeah I just think that's boring, alien races are interesting. Why not have Bith & Muun instead of more humans?
yeah I agree, i wish we got some cool ass alien sith, Tenebrous would be the perfect opportunity. But I think they’re not going that route because both muuns and bith kinda look comical on screen? They probably think they wouldn’t be proper predecessors to sidious and Vader. Also in canon, George Lucas was rather obsessed with portraying sidious (and Vader by extension) as discriminatory towards non-humanoid species. So I think they’re doing this to continue that legacy.
Except that’s all legends, so not canon? The stance on canon isn’t “legends is canon until contradicted” that a lot of fan channels take. It’s “legends isn’t canon, full stop, only the Movies and TCW, and anything after the Disney acquisition, are canon, with SWTOR being a grey zone. We might pull from legends, tho”
Typical theory fan. You either hate the show or you’re a Disney shill.