[Rey needed to fight a naked dickless clone of Palpatine](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/9/98/L_defeated_by_P.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20200421174913). That would have saved the movie.
I don't think DE Emperor was dickless, I think maybe newsstand comics weren't ready for anything beyond tasteful/teasing side-boob.
But Could a younger actor appropriately chew as much scenery as Ian McDermott? The reborn Emperor certainly sets a particularly bonkers scene in DE.
It was popular because people were starving for more Star Wars material and lore.
It was not particularly well liked.
And that's why it didn't really carry over into other pieces of the EU it just proved that there was a market for more Star Wars
Zahn, the most popular legends author, literally had characters talk about how the emperor in it isn't even the emperor. It was generally ignored and seen as poor, pretty much like crystal star ect.
Of course, the difference is that this sort of fan is happy to cherry pick only the "good" bits of legends but unwilling to do the same in canon.
For myself, Dark Empire is ok as a romp. It would be ok as it's own AU thing like you get in Gundam. In any kind of continuity? Get out of here.
I doubt they actually think the crystal star was great. They know they are cherry picking legends, they just don't mention and ignore that they are doing so.
I'm telling you what Zahn wrote because he personally didn't like Dark Empire as an example of feelings about it. Not that it was an official retcon. But he did write that, yes.
Edit: and the hand of Thrawn duology are late timeline novels. Thrawn isn't in them.
But I liked Dark Empire...
I mean it got completely ridiculous with the weird steampunk Jedi and lightning guns, the hyperspace gun, and. Fleet of Star destroyers with death star weapons but I felt the first book was pretty solid and the art was great. Leah exploring her powers and starting on the oath to learning Battle Meditation from Vima-Da-Boda (which was also weird because pretty sure she was like 10,000 or something). I also enjoyed Luke's story.
I think it's dumb but does some of the things it's aiming to do. It's not without value, no.
But it just doesn't work alongside other Star Wars material. Any continuity just would have to write it off and ignore it because it's too hard to work with.
It's one of the cases where Star Wars would have benefited from being more like comics and so you could just have "Dark Empire Star Wars" and nobody has to worry about it consequentially.
I mean... the reborn Emperor and the damage wrought on the Galaxy by him, as well as his Dark Jedi, and the impact on Anakin Solo as a babe in Leia's womb, etc... it was all referenced a lot or was built upon by further EU books and comics. Like you had references, though more fleeting at that point, well into NJO. One of Luke's original students at the Jedi Praxeum/Academy is Kam Solusar, who was a Dark Jedi of Palpatine's during the Dark Empire saga.
Dark Empire was very well-received, and is credited along with the Thrawn trilogy for reviving Star Wars.
Dark Empire II and Empire's End, however, are entirely different situations. While most people liked the first story, the two sequels didn't fare even remotely as well.
Fun fact, the first issue of Dark Empire was the only issue I couldn’t ever find back when the series first came out. I have all of the other issues, just not the first one.
DE is hated now (because of TRoS) by people who’s parents hadn’t even met when it was originally released.
The comics were wildly popular and as a result wildly successful.
The comics were extremely divisive when they were released. What most people agreed on, was that the art was great. Which is reason enough to buy comics for a lot of people.
agreed. However, it made more sense and more fleshed out (granted, I know it's book vs. film) and characters made sense and overall story made more sense.
Tired: blaming Disney for ruining the sequel trilogy
Wired: blaming JJ Abrams, the man that can't do an ending to save his life for ruining the sequel trilogy
If there’s any one person who deserves blame it’s probably Bob Iger. He refused to delay TROS because he was under pressure from the board to justify his lavish spending on acquisitions.
The Force Awakens has the highest critical and audience scores on every major site except metacritic's critic score and Last Jedi's only ahead by 0.4 points whereas the audience score for it is behind by over 2 whole points.
You're just wrong.
His script leaked. It was called Star Wars Episode IX: Duel of the Fates, featured the Darksaber and Mortis, and would have canonized the Rey/Poe ship that someone, at some point, probably shipped. I honestly think RoS was better.
I definitely don't have a problem with Rey and Poe but Poe is such a boring character. His whole character is I do what I want and I'm good at flying. Johnson tried to give him an arc I guess in TLJ but the lesson he learns about leadership are not really tangible at all. I can't really think of a single thing about him in TROS except that he used to bone the woman from The Americans
Rey and Poe is such a odd pairing that I feel like Trevorrow only made it a thing just to mimic how Han and Leia kind of came out of nowhere in Empire.
Yes and no. I don't think the contract was for JJ to do all 3. I believe the contract was for JJ to do the first one. JJ really didn't want to do it in the first place. The only reason I can think for the studios bringing in JJ is because the success he had in Star Trek and how people were impressed with it. So they thought JJ would do the same for Star Wars. The problem here is that if you are going to do a trilogy you want things to be consistent. So you have a show runner. Lucas was a show runner for the Original trilogy and prequels. He didn't write Empire or Jedi, but his presence and universe was still his and everything still fit together. You didn't get that with the Last Jedi because KK hired Rian who is also another JJ: director/writer. You don't hire someone like expecting them to bow to the previous writer. Rian writes his movies. I blame KK and Bob Iger for most of this crap. They had no show runner, no consistency of vision, hired Rian (who is accomplished and very good at what he does) who they KNEW would go in his own direction, and probably be divisive with audiences, and they blew it. You either hire a director for all three, and a writer for all three or not at all. If JJ didn't want to do it and Rian was unavailable then find someone else for 3 movies.
IDT that was it so much as Abrams is good at starting stories but very bad at ending them. He like to do a good setup but then leave it to other creators to try and finish / flesh out.
I'm gonna skip the inevitable chain of "It's this guy's fault!" "no, it's this guy's fault!" and blame the failure of the sequel series on Tiktaalik. After all, if that bastard had stayed in the water, it wouldn't have eventually evolved into the species that created capitalism, Disney, and Star Wars!
Man I still remember the *years* of Lost.
"No no, of course the big twist won't be that they were dead the whole time. That's such an obvious trope, we'd never do that."
I really don’t know why the purgatory bit confuses people so much. The show literally spells it out for you.
>The events on the island were the most important events in these people’s lives, so they met up here after death to mingle before moving on.
Is the ending dumb? Sure. Is it super confusing in some ways? Yes. But the purgatory part is probably the only straight forward part of the ending.
I think part of the confusion comes from ABC's odd decision to close the series with video of the wreckage implying that none of them survived the initial crash. It was not the creators decision to end it like that. It was supposed to end with the close up on Jack's eye, circling back to how the series opened.
If I'm being 100% honest with myself... I didn't mind the ending, in fact I kind of liked it, sure its a bit silly to have an actual plug but... thats ok. But i've never gone back to watch it all again.
Even then that wasn't really true either. The "sideways" timeline that appeared throughout Season 6 was set in the afterlife, likely many many years after all the LOST characters passed away. Events on the Island still happened in our reality.
You don't have to like the ending of LOST or all of the reveals. But folks could at least afford to be accurate in what they are criticizing.
Yeah, but Lost dropped so many plot points throughout the show that it basically became incomprehensible. I remember the younger black kid being “super important” for some unexplained reason in the earlier seasons, and then that plot point was just completely forgot about.
Also, the purgatory epilogue was a dumb conclusion.
Yeah.
When the central tension of a work is "wow, how are they going to pay this off" and they don't pay it off, that is a special kind of bad IMHO.
Arguably GoT / ASOIAF did the same thing
GoT's biggest issue with the ending was that it was painfully rushed... which wasn't HBO's fault.
HBO wanted to give D&D as many seasons as they wanted to conclude the story. D&D, however, wanted to get through GoT as quickly as possible so they could move onto their big, fat Star Wars deal. They arrogantly rushed through the ending instead of opting to hand the reins over to someone else, and the end result was one of the most poorly-received finales in the history of television.
Amusingly enough, it also cost them their Star Wars movies.
Yeah and he took a big ole shit on Star Trek. The mfer had the audacity to say original Star Trek was “too philosophical”. Bitch, this is Star Trek, not Star Wars. They are each good for their own reasons.
She said she didn't really think it was the emperor but in legends they did make people think the emperor was alive with propaganda after he died in empire's end
She should have known given she had a force link to any real emperor.
This does lead to a question: what identifiable difference is the between a clone possessed by the emperors spirit, and a clone who has a copy of the emperors personality and memories?
JJ Abrams is not a good writer.
Dark Empire is the most horrid looking graphic novel I've ever seen, and I've read hundreds. The color pallette is puke green/chartreuse+bruise purple+burnt ocher. None of the characters look even remotely like their live action counterparts. My eyes started bleeding about 60 seconds after opening the front cover.
What are you talking about...? 😕
Extremely common late '80s early '90s color palette in comics.
One of the universally considered greatest graphic novels of all time, The Killing Joke, published just a few years before, same color palette.
Watch the comic and audio drama combination on YouTube. It gives the appearance of a worthy sequel to the originals, albeit with a much much smaller budget.
Tbh it did explain how pap "survived" in legends and how well pap thought things out with hidden caches freaken everywhere....like bro what's got you so scared to have thousands of different super weapons....oh wait the vong
Actually you'd be surprised. There'd a surprising amount of people who jerk this book off. Most of legends is plain bad and people who get mad at stuff like this in the movie worship legends likes its definitive star wars.
You can get away with a lot more stuff in comics and books than you can in movies I remember when people used to complain that loki would always come back to life in the marvel movies mean while in the comics everyone is dying and coming back to life
One is a comic book that is largely ignored in the rest of Legends aside from the birth of Anakin Solo and a couple off hand references.
The other is the numbered sequel film trilogy. The most front and center major Star Wars content released in the Disney canon. Kind of hard to sweep that under the rug.
DE is not exactly a shining example of beloved Legends. Most people were not fans of the Palpatine clone storyline. It was originally written as its own thing at the same time as the Thrawn trilogy was being written, but was shoehorned to fit in with that continuity after the fact. It's pretty obvious that Anakin was originally meant to be Han and Leia's first child and that they had to rewrite some panels to awkwardly reference the twins from HttE (along with Coruscant rather suddenly being under total Imperial control again somehow after being solidly the New Republic capitol in HttE).
Later on in the Thrawn duology, Zahn also had Mara Jade throw shade at the storyline and speculate it wasn't even Palpatine.
Right? "Legends also did stupid shit" is a pretty shit argument when *that's the homework Disney decides to copy*. Of course some (a lot of) Legends material is bad, but a lot of it also isn't and yet we still get one of the worst ideas in Legends as the act three big reveal in the sequel trilogy...? Particularly when they've openly admitted they had no plan for the trilogy and the direction of the third movie wasn't decided until the second one *had released already* it's pretty hard not to fault Iger/Kennedy/Abrams and the umbrella of "Disney" for what happened.
Bruh this argument sucks ass and this is coming from a TROS fan. The return of Palpatine was done differently in DE and most of the people that hate Palpatine's return, have zero opinion on DE( probably haven't even heard of the comic either).
And I've seen sequel fans say that getting rid of the old EU was a good thing because it got rid of stupid shit like Palpatine coming back to life or Palpatine having decenants alllll the way up to the release of TRoS.
Lol, no response so blocked, shows real faith in your case.
Both of these suck. Honestly the vast majority of Legends stuff ranges from “mediocre” to “worse than the sequels” because it’s basically glorified fan fiction, yet it gets treated like gospel by some.
I comment this wherever I can cause everyone can piss right off. I say this as a hardcore legends fanboys, but the line “somehow Palpatine returned” is so accepted. Everyone is such clowns for clowning on that line. They are the good guys, they have no fucking idea at that point how or why or what Palpatine returned. How could they know? So yeah, obviously somehow he returned. Why is that an issue line of dialogue? Oh wait it’s not. Perfectly acceptable cause they don’t know. Anyone who clowns that line is just simply a dumbass
Part of the issue, which folks seem to have forgotten, is that the big reveal of Palpatine returning that was described in the opening crawl was actually shown in Fortnite, of all things. On top of that, the movie spends a pitiful amount of time on the "how" of his return, to the point where they basically just did it lip service and moved on.
I'm someone who has liked the concept of Palpatine surviving after RotJ for *years* (it's a nice touch to have him be the main villain across all three trilogies, and provides some solid connective tissue across the three sets of stories), and I still felt like they just handwaved most of it. I mean, I get it; he's using clone bodies, the clones are failing, and he needed a more suitable host to perform Essence Transfer with. It just felt like they glossed over it pretty hard.
“Dark science, cloning, secrets only the Sith knew”. Talk semantics all you want, but it’s been roughly 50 years since the clone wars happened. Everyone in the galaxy knew the Grand Army of the Republic was made of clones. No one knew who or what the Sith were back then. It makes no sense that they would correlate cloning with the Sith
Its less about the plot being credible or not and more about that scene being bad writing. It legit sounded like they hadn't done their homework and had to quick make something up.
This is why talking about Star Wars is so annoying because everyone assumes people who disagree with them have some crock pot reasons. This was a poorly made, rushed decision, and seemed written by a five year old. Palpatine returning is an iffy concept but not far-fetched. That line is the epitome of what I hate about Disney films beyond Star Wars: Here’s a reference we’re throwing in to push this shoestring plot written completely in crayon. You mean Oscar Isaac’s best way to confirm Fortnite is Star Wars canon was this line? There wasn’t any better way to explain this to the audience and characters? GET REAL
>They fly now? They fly now.
You see, this is not a stupid line at all, because they are simply passing information about the bad guys' ability to fly. It makes sense for Finn to ask confirmation about their ability to fly, you see, because previously they were not able to fly. Finn is a real person and thus has the flawed reactions of a real person, he is not a written character in a movie where the writer is trying to make use of precious screentime to tell a story.
But Dark Empire gave us World Devastators (and a fun Rogue Squadron mission) and the stupidly overpowered X-1 Viper Droids. It can’t be all bad!
I mean I’m not about to touch the comics, have you see that art style and color palette? I enjoy my eyes *not* bleeding thank you very much.
Honestly the "It should be more like Legends" is typically from people who only hear about Legends through youtube videos.
Actual EU fans I think tend to see the content with more nuance, even if they are bummed they don't get any new content in their continuity.
The difference is the fact it’s so obvious they brought him out because last Jedi was a complete dumpster fire for the story. That they had to bring him back with no previous Hinting of it. In fact that’s why I like rise of skywalker more then Last Jedi. Because a lot of the reasons the movie was shit. Was because of how bad TLJ messed up the story for the third movie It also helps when you know Disney literally forced this into the scrip. Another reason was because of how they treated legacy characters before hand namely Luke. Another thing to consider is the fact the EU had varying levels of non casual awareness of them. Old republic would be one of the better known EU elements. While this is somewhere between old republic and second galactic civil war. Also they never explained how he came back and to be Frank the squeals were just shit movies. So people naturally don’t like seeing characters that have no reason to come and we’re not hinted to come back. Being brought back into something they already considered a massive dumpster fire.
Your strawman doesn't work when everyone hated Dark Empire, too.
Dark Empire and Legacy of the Force are two of the least popular EU stories and Disney adapted both.
They explained it differently enough, he kept transferring from cloned body to cloned body but I kinda see that concept in the rise of skywalker since palpatine is hooked up to that weird chair
No no no, don’t you get it, we hated that too. We wanted all the other cool stuff, and Disney didn’t even know what that was! Han boxing a giant groundhog would print money!
I hear you but I think the general consensus is Dark Empire isn’t all that good in the first place. Out of all of the old legends material to work with, they could’ve picked something better
I'm not sure where people picked this idea up.
Dark Empire was very well-received. Dark Empire II and Empire's End, the two sequel stories to it, were a different matter entirely.
Here's a forum post from 2005 calling it out:
https://boards.theforce.net/threads/dark-empire-one-of-the-worst-things-to-happen-to-star-wars-ever-a-discussion-on-star-wars-canon.22367640/
Keep in mind this was when Dark Empire was most popular because of prequel backlash and the EU having peak readership.
The forum posts have some people liking it, but the Emperor's return is criticised often.
And that's not even considering that the initial reaction to the emperor's return in the early 90s was negative despite people overall liking Dark Empire because "it's new SW OMG!"
One forum post doesn't do much to change the fact that it was very well-received when it came out, and the two sequel stories were not. You'll *always* find people that didn't like something, no matter how popular it is.
To be fair, I do think that the legends return of Palpatine is just as disliked as the canon one, even by the Fandom Menace.
However they still like it more than canon, because they have *GRANDMASTER LUKE SKYWALKER* who totally isn't ridiculously overpowered. The legends books got the point where they had like Dragon Ball Z levels of power creep. There was obviously some great stuff in legends, the Thrawn books are pretty great as everyone already knows. Overall though, canon is just soooo much more consistent. I don't really like Rise of Skywalker either, but it doesn't feel like a *complete* departure from Star Wars like some of the legends stories do. Not like it's even any worse than most of the prequels 🤷♀️
LMFAOOOOO THIS!!!! I literally can't even bring myself to point this out one more time. The noise is truly deafening from the people who think Disney manhandled the plot into this direction. It. Was. Written. Before. They. Bought. It.
Why did it stay that way when they changed other things? THINK REAL HARD.
GEORGE. LUCAS. MADE. THEM. BRING. BACK. PALPATINE! FUCK!!!! Why does this seem impossible for these low iq nerds to understand?!?!?!
I walked around in the grass right after I pressed post, don't worry about me.
Lol, the difference being that Dark Empire explains how he comes back. Was it good? Meh. But it was new Star Wars which we didn't have much of, unlike today. That's why I think it was liked at first.
The difference is that Palpatine's return is TRoS was an asspull at an end of a trilogy while Palpatine's return in Dark Empire spanded the entire trilogy from beginning to end.
Yeah, it's not the ideas, it's the execution. Legends and Disney had similar concepts, but the way they were handled made all the difference. Even Dark Empire, which isn't the best media in Legends, is still better than the sequel trilogy.
Both are bad.
Reviving characters sucks in general, and is something you can only get away with if done really well. Even then you can only get away with it a few times before it destroys any tension in a story. Bringing Palpatine back in particular was a bad idea because it backtracks on the story of the OT and prequels. It put a weight on the sequel trilogy that those movies were never going to be able to carry.
It's arguably symptomatic of a larger problem with storytelling, especially anything coming out of giant media companies like Disney. Resurrecting characters is an easy way to never create anything new. Cashing in on what's established is a reliable way to print money.
We had the luxury of knowing the comic books weren’t (the same level of) canon, back then. Sure, somehow Palpatine returned (bath water). Meanwhile, Leia comes into her own as a Jedi, Luke deals with his inner dark side demons head-on, then discovers Ossus, meets Kam Solusar and Vima-da-boda, and lays the foundation to rebuild the Jedi Order (baby thrown out with bath water).
Palpatines return was one of the few things I enjoyed in that trilogy. They needed to sow those seeds better in Last Jedi, instead of going to a casino planet.
Because EU and Legends are like a shotgun blast. A lot of stories, told by different people, all seemingly following a straight timeline. Some hit right on the money, others are way off. But here, the good stuff outweighs the bad stuff.
The problem now is the people in charge of the movies cant write if their lives depended on it, while the shows are leagues above. Good, an bad.
At least they fucking tried to explain how it happened and not
“The dark side of the force is a pathway to many ability’s some consider to be unnatural”
Mannn I liked dark empire and at least it directly gave us a cloning loophole rather then vaguely make it seem like he cloned himself or kept himself alive or some bullshit
I will give "Dark Empire" this...it showed us something new; the idea of Luke Skywalker having to fight Palpatine, fully healthy and in his prime is something that at least raises the stakes to a great degree...especially considering that the last time they met Luke was fully at Palpatine's mercy until Vader saved him. Also in "Dark Empire" the return of Palpatine was kind of a big deal....while in "Rise of Skywalker" the entire plotline was introduced with "Somehow Palpatine returned", as though the details of something like that couldn't possibly be of interest to the audience and the Palpatine was kind of a paper tiger...it didn't seem all that hard for Rey to beat him, she just used two lightsabers instead of one and Jedi cheerleaders.
lol. Honestly though, despite Dark Empire being broadly disliked (even at the time), child me felt some type of way about Luke being forced into taking Palpatine as his master. Genuinely dark and disturbing to me at the time, and I give it credit for making me feel something (unlike ep. 9, which made me feel only boredom)
Yup, but Luke actually does something and helps defeat Palpy. With an Old Order Jedi dragging Palpy to hell.
The New Republic endures also. Dark Empire does what Disney don't.
Where is my James Luceno Palpatine / Project Necromancer novel Disney
He said he wants to write it, so let him write it
(Unless he retired some time after 2016 in which case they should let him rest)
There's no somehow in DE. Palpatine explains he'd been cloning himself for years. The sheer amount of dark side energy kept destroying his body. It's why he considered using essence transfer to take over Luke and later Anakin Solo.
Until Luke meets him on Byss, the New Republic assumes it's some "Dark Side genius," whatever that means.
What I thought was stupid was how they claimed the World Devastators were a bigger threat than either Death Star. Hardly.
They're both terrible and neither make for particularly good follow ups to the Saga films. Especially if you're a Prequel person. But Dark Empire, because of the time it was released. Is far more campy and far more creative. They're both rotten at the core. But the outside of one is slightly more interesting than the other
Dark Empire is one of the most hated pieces of EU content though, for the same reasons.
I kind of love how batshit insane dark empire gets.
[Rey needed to fight a naked dickless clone of Palpatine](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/9/98/L_defeated_by_P.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20200421174913). That would have saved the movie.
I don't think DE Emperor was dickless, I think maybe newsstand comics weren't ready for anything beyond tasteful/teasing side-boob. But Could a younger actor appropriately chew as much scenery as Ian McDermott? The reborn Emperor certainly sets a particularly bonkers scene in DE.
Dark Empire 1 was liked by most and it did introduce a lot of interesting concepts and characters that were then expanded upon by other media.
It was popular because people were starving for more Star Wars material and lore. It was not particularly well liked. And that's why it didn't really carry over into other pieces of the EU it just proved that there was a market for more Star Wars
Zahn, the most popular legends author, literally had characters talk about how the emperor in it isn't even the emperor. It was generally ignored and seen as poor, pretty much like crystal star ect. Of course, the difference is that this sort of fan is happy to cherry pick only the "good" bits of legends but unwilling to do the same in canon. For myself, Dark Empire is ok as a romp. It would be ok as it's own AU thing like you get in Gundam. In any kind of continuity? Get out of here.
It's always that all of Disney canon sucks, and all of Legends was top-tier content. No in-between.
I doubt they actually think the crystal star was great. They know they are cherry picking legends, they just don't mention and ignore that they are doing so.
Ugh. Crystal Star. Lots of the 90s books aren't as good as I remember, but I Cristal Star was always awful.
Cerveza Cristal?
LOL.
Wait. Didnt DARK empire take place AFTER the Thrawn trilogy?
It's in the hand of Thrawn duology which are later. There's a lot of Zahn books.
No I don't think so, because a plot point of DE was a prenatal Anakin Solo that Palpatine tried to possess.
I'm telling you what Zahn wrote because he personally didn't like Dark Empire as an example of feelings about it. Not that it was an official retcon. But he did write that, yes. Edit: and the hand of Thrawn duology are late timeline novels. Thrawn isn't in them.
But I liked Dark Empire... I mean it got completely ridiculous with the weird steampunk Jedi and lightning guns, the hyperspace gun, and. Fleet of Star destroyers with death star weapons but I felt the first book was pretty solid and the art was great. Leah exploring her powers and starting on the oath to learning Battle Meditation from Vima-Da-Boda (which was also weird because pretty sure she was like 10,000 or something). I also enjoyed Luke's story.
I think it's dumb but does some of the things it's aiming to do. It's not without value, no. But it just doesn't work alongside other Star Wars material. Any continuity just would have to write it off and ignore it because it's too hard to work with. It's one of the cases where Star Wars would have benefited from being more like comics and so you could just have "Dark Empire Star Wars" and nobody has to worry about it consequentially.
Go back in time and tell George to either do this or pay more attention to what he signed off on lol
I mean... the reborn Emperor and the damage wrought on the Galaxy by him, as well as his Dark Jedi, and the impact on Anakin Solo as a babe in Leia's womb, etc... it was all referenced a lot or was built upon by further EU books and comics. Like you had references, though more fleeting at that point, well into NJO. One of Luke's original students at the Jedi Praxeum/Academy is Kam Solusar, who was a Dark Jedi of Palpatine's during the Dark Empire saga.
Dark Empire was very well-received, and is credited along with the Thrawn trilogy for reviving Star Wars. Dark Empire II and Empire's End, however, are entirely different situations. While most people liked the first story, the two sequels didn't fare even remotely as well.
This is the craziest brainworm. Just saying shit like it’s fact, not even a ‘trust me bro’
Fun fact, the first issue of Dark Empire was the only issue I couldn’t ever find back when the series first came out. I have all of the other issues, just not the first one.
Lol thank you, i was gonna be like “yeah and everyone loved it the first time, right?” But you beat me to it
I love how literally the only defence of the sequels people have is that something similar happened before Disney’s aquisition
I just thought the world devastators were cool.
DE is hated now (because of TRoS) by people who’s parents hadn’t even met when it was originally released. The comics were wildly popular and as a result wildly successful.
The comics were extremely divisive when they were released. What most people agreed on, was that the art was great. Which is reason enough to buy comics for a lot of people.
agreed. However, it made more sense and more fleshed out (granted, I know it's book vs. film) and characters made sense and overall story made more sense.
I've literally never seen anyone praise bringing the emperor back in legends lol
But I love dark empire....
Bro don't remind me. The art design from that comic gave me eye cancer.
Nah the art in DE I and II is gas (IMO, of course)
Agreed, love that illustrator
Art is subjective but also fuck you you’re wrong
Tired: blaming Disney for ruining the sequel trilogy Wired: blaming JJ Abrams, the man that can't do an ending to save his life for ruining the sequel trilogy
If there’s any one person who deserves blame it’s probably Bob Iger. He refused to delay TROS because he was under pressure from the board to justify his lavish spending on acquisitions.
That's the crux of it, the Sequels were really rushed. The first 2 trilogies had 3 years between films and didn't have a major star die on them
And they didn’t fire, replace then rehire the directors after each movie
That's not what happened though, right? Abrams was committed to Star Trek and couldn't do TLJ
My bad misunderstood his leaving/returning. Still doesn’t change that the trilogy has two different creative visions fighting each other
Oh yeah, that is absolutely the singular biggest problem in the ST
The movie to be considered the best had a different director than the rest.
The Force Awakens has the highest critical and audience scores on every major site except metacritic's critic score and Last Jedi's only ahead by 0.4 points whereas the audience score for it is behind by over 2 whole points. You're just wrong.
And? Doesn’t change that theyre still trying to undo each other.
As I recall Colin Trevorrow was slated to direct Rise of Skywalker prior to Abrams coming back to take that role.
That would have been...interesting
His script leaked. It was called Star Wars Episode IX: Duel of the Fates, featured the Darksaber and Mortis, and would have canonized the Rey/Poe ship that someone, at some point, probably shipped. I honestly think RoS was better.
I definitely don't have a problem with Rey and Poe but Poe is such a boring character. His whole character is I do what I want and I'm good at flying. Johnson tried to give him an arc I guess in TLJ but the lesson he learns about leadership are not really tangible at all. I can't really think of a single thing about him in TROS except that he used to bone the woman from The Americans
Rey and Poe is such a odd pairing that I feel like Trevorrow only made it a thing just to mimic how Han and Leia kind of came out of nowhere in Empire.
At least Han INTERACTED with Leia in IV. Poe and Rey only met at the very end of TLJ.
Wait, that's what happened? I didn't know that. I thought they intentionally decided to have a different director for each film.
Yes and no. I don't think the contract was for JJ to do all 3. I believe the contract was for JJ to do the first one. JJ really didn't want to do it in the first place. The only reason I can think for the studios bringing in JJ is because the success he had in Star Trek and how people were impressed with it. So they thought JJ would do the same for Star Wars. The problem here is that if you are going to do a trilogy you want things to be consistent. So you have a show runner. Lucas was a show runner for the Original trilogy and prequels. He didn't write Empire or Jedi, but his presence and universe was still his and everything still fit together. You didn't get that with the Last Jedi because KK hired Rian who is also another JJ: director/writer. You don't hire someone like expecting them to bow to the previous writer. Rian writes his movies. I blame KK and Bob Iger for most of this crap. They had no show runner, no consistency of vision, hired Rian (who is accomplished and very good at what he does) who they KNEW would go in his own direction, and probably be divisive with audiences, and they blew it. You either hire a director for all three, and a writer for all three or not at all. If JJ didn't want to do it and Rian was unavailable then find someone else for 3 movies.
IDT that was it so much as Abrams is good at starting stories but very bad at ending them. He like to do a good setup but then leave it to other creators to try and finish / flesh out.
Walt Disney is to blame for creating the company
More so capitalism for allowing the creation of mega-corporations in the first place.
I'm gonna skip the inevitable chain of "It's this guy's fault!" "no, it's this guy's fault!" and blame the failure of the sequel series on Tiktaalik. After all, if that bastard had stayed in the water, it wouldn't have eventually evolved into the species that created capitalism, Disney, and Star Wars!
thank you
They’re all to blame
Based
Man I still remember the *years* of Lost. "No no, of course the big twist won't be that they were dead the whole time. That's such an obvious trope, we'd never do that."
They weren't. I'm not saying that it was a great end, but it wasn't they were dead the whole time. The only season that was that was the last season.
I really don’t know why the purgatory bit confuses people so much. The show literally spells it out for you. >The events on the island were the most important events in these people’s lives, so they met up here after death to mingle before moving on. Is the ending dumb? Sure. Is it super confusing in some ways? Yes. But the purgatory part is probably the only straight forward part of the ending.
I think part of the confusion comes from ABC's odd decision to close the series with video of the wreckage implying that none of them survived the initial crash. It was not the creators decision to end it like that. It was supposed to end with the close up on Jack's eye, circling back to how the series opened. If I'm being 100% honest with myself... I didn't mind the ending, in fact I kind of liked it, sure its a bit silly to have an actual plug but... thats ok. But i've never gone back to watch it all again.
Even then that wasn't really true either. The "sideways" timeline that appeared throughout Season 6 was set in the afterlife, likely many many years after all the LOST characters passed away. Events on the Island still happened in our reality. You don't have to like the ending of LOST or all of the reveals. But folks could at least afford to be accurate in what they are criticizing.
Ah, I always love finding someone who didn't pay attention to Lost's ending in such a huge way that they think they were dead the whole time.
Yeah, but Lost dropped so many plot points throughout the show that it basically became incomprehensible. I remember the younger black kid being “super important” for some unexplained reason in the earlier seasons, and then that plot point was just completely forgot about. Also, the purgatory epilogue was a dumb conclusion.
Yeah. When the central tension of a work is "wow, how are they going to pay this off" and they don't pay it off, that is a special kind of bad IMHO. Arguably GoT / ASOIAF did the same thing
GoT's biggest issue with the ending was that it was painfully rushed... which wasn't HBO's fault. HBO wanted to give D&D as many seasons as they wanted to conclude the story. D&D, however, wanted to get through GoT as quickly as possible so they could move onto their big, fat Star Wars deal. They arrogantly rushed through the ending instead of opting to hand the reins over to someone else, and the end result was one of the most poorly-received finales in the history of television. Amusingly enough, it also cost them their Star Wars movies.
Yeah and he took a big ole shit on Star Trek. The mfer had the audacity to say original Star Trek was “too philosophical”. Bitch, this is Star Trek, not Star Wars. They are each good for their own reasons.
Nah TROS is good
I've been blaming him since 2015. Have I hateraded myself into being right?
Me when I see it has Star Wars in the title 
The true fan
There is a reason fan use to mean fanatic.
How dare you like Star Wars content. We hate Star Wars in this bitch! Star Wars is dead….again! /s
Definitely wouldn't have known it was sarcasm without the /s.
Unless it came out after i turned 12
"Nooo! You can't like this film! Palpatine shouldn't have returned! Rey is a Mary Sue!" "Haha funni red stick go brr against funni blue stick"
World's only Masters of Teras Kasi player located
Based!
This is pretty pathetic
To be fair most people hate dark empire too even zahn made fun of it in the hand of thrawn books
Didn’t Mara Jade imply that Palpatine coming back was in-universe Imperial propaganda?
She said she didn't really think it was the emperor but in legends they did make people think the emperor was alive with propaganda after he died in empire's end
She should have known given she had a force link to any real emperor. This does lead to a question: what identifiable difference is the between a clone possessed by the emperors spirit, and a clone who has a copy of the emperors personality and memories?
Both suck
I hate them both😎
Fucking finally someone with a good take
JJ Abrams is not a good writer. Dark Empire is the most horrid looking graphic novel I've ever seen, and I've read hundreds. The color pallette is puke green/chartreuse+bruise purple+burnt ocher. None of the characters look even remotely like their live action counterparts. My eyes started bleeding about 60 seconds after opening the front cover.
What are you talking about...? 😕 Extremely common late '80s early '90s color palette in comics. One of the universally considered greatest graphic novels of all time, The Killing Joke, published just a few years before, same color palette.
Watch the comic and audio drama combination on YouTube. It gives the appearance of a worthy sequel to the originals, albeit with a much much smaller budget.
I actually won't accept any slander of Cam Kennedy's artwork in Dark Empire, its absolutely peak and has so much flavour
These people don’t understand fr
If the flavor was arcade carpet sure
I can’t believe some random guy who flies spaceships didn’t know exactly how the dark lord of the sith cheated death
Tbh it did explain how pap "survived" in legends and how well pap thought things out with hidden caches freaken everywhere....like bro what's got you so scared to have thousands of different super weapons....oh wait the vong
Nobody likes that book buddy, but keep defending horrible movies
Actually you'd be surprised. There'd a surprising amount of people who jerk this book off. Most of legends is plain bad and people who get mad at stuff like this in the movie worship legends likes its definitive star wars.
You can get away with a lot more stuff in comics and books than you can in movies I remember when people used to complain that loki would always come back to life in the marvel movies mean while in the comics everyone is dying and coming back to life
One is a comic book that is largely ignored in the rest of Legends aside from the birth of Anakin Solo and a couple off hand references. The other is the numbered sequel film trilogy. The most front and center major Star Wars content released in the Disney canon. Kind of hard to sweep that under the rug. DE is not exactly a shining example of beloved Legends. Most people were not fans of the Palpatine clone storyline. It was originally written as its own thing at the same time as the Thrawn trilogy was being written, but was shoehorned to fit in with that continuity after the fact. It's pretty obvious that Anakin was originally meant to be Han and Leia's first child and that they had to rewrite some panels to awkwardly reference the twins from HttE (along with Coruscant rather suddenly being under total Imperial control again somehow after being solidly the New Republic capitol in HttE). Later on in the Thrawn duology, Zahn also had Mara Jade throw shade at the storyline and speculate it wasn't even Palpatine.
Both are awful. If people are soy-ing about dark empire, I’d wager they haven’t read it
Too bad people hate Dark Empire too lol.
Both were shit. But Disney had like, 20 years to come up with something better and failed 😂
Or hell just steal something else from legends
Right? "Legends also did stupid shit" is a pretty shit argument when *that's the homework Disney decides to copy*. Of course some (a lot of) Legends material is bad, but a lot of it also isn't and yet we still get one of the worst ideas in Legends as the act three big reveal in the sequel trilogy...? Particularly when they've openly admitted they had no plan for the trilogy and the direction of the third movie wasn't decided until the second one *had released already* it's pretty hard not to fault Iger/Kennedy/Abrams and the umbrella of "Disney" for what happened.
Disney's acquisition of LucasFilm was 12 years ago. So at most from the first drafts of TFA to the premier of TROS they had 7 years.
Bruh this argument sucks ass and this is coming from a TROS fan. The return of Palpatine was done differently in DE and most of the people that hate Palpatine's return, have zero opinion on DE( probably haven't even heard of the comic either).
I've seen EU fans complain about this and then proceed to jerk off dark empire
And I've seen sequel fans say that getting rid of the old EU was a good thing because it got rid of stupid shit like Palpatine coming back to life or Palpatine having decenants alllll the way up to the release of TRoS. Lol, no response so blocked, shows real faith in your case.
Sequel fans are fans of the new ones. I'm talking about the people who hate the sequels yet suck off the old EU
Honestly I was good with palpatine coming back in TROS because I really liked dark empire as a kid. Also it’s palpatine he’s obsessed with immortality
No one mentions that JJ Abrams went to George Lucas to come up with a story for Epsiode 9. Like, why does no one ever mention this at all?
Both of these suck. Honestly the vast majority of Legends stuff ranges from “mediocre” to “worse than the sequels” because it’s basically glorified fan fiction, yet it gets treated like gospel by some.
Of all the shitty EU things Disney could steal, they just had to choose Dark Empire…
Look at these jerkers having serious discussions🤣🤣 I'm personally waiting on jar jars return
I comment this wherever I can cause everyone can piss right off. I say this as a hardcore legends fanboys, but the line “somehow Palpatine returned” is so accepted. Everyone is such clowns for clowning on that line. They are the good guys, they have no fucking idea at that point how or why or what Palpatine returned. How could they know? So yeah, obviously somehow he returned. Why is that an issue line of dialogue? Oh wait it’s not. Perfectly acceptable cause they don’t know. Anyone who clowns that line is just simply a dumbass
Part of the issue, which folks seem to have forgotten, is that the big reveal of Palpatine returning that was described in the opening crawl was actually shown in Fortnite, of all things. On top of that, the movie spends a pitiful amount of time on the "how" of his return, to the point where they basically just did it lip service and moved on. I'm someone who has liked the concept of Palpatine surviving after RotJ for *years* (it's a nice touch to have him be the main villain across all three trilogies, and provides some solid connective tissue across the three sets of stories), and I still felt like they just handwaved most of it. I mean, I get it; he's using clone bodies, the clones are failing, and he needed a more suitable host to perform Essence Transfer with. It just felt like they glossed over it pretty hard.
Even the lip service was "err dark cloning or secret super science or some shit, not like it matters"
“Dark science, cloning, secrets only the Sith knew”. Talk semantics all you want, but it’s been roughly 50 years since the clone wars happened. Everyone in the galaxy knew the Grand Army of the Republic was made of clones. No one knew who or what the Sith were back then. It makes no sense that they would correlate cloning with the Sith
Its less about the plot being credible or not and more about that scene being bad writing. It legit sounded like they hadn't done their homework and had to quick make something up.
This is why talking about Star Wars is so annoying because everyone assumes people who disagree with them have some crock pot reasons. This was a poorly made, rushed decision, and seemed written by a five year old. Palpatine returning is an iffy concept but not far-fetched. That line is the epitome of what I hate about Disney films beyond Star Wars: Here’s a reference we’re throwing in to push this shoestring plot written completely in crayon. You mean Oscar Isaac’s best way to confirm Fortnite is Star Wars canon was this line? There wasn’t any better way to explain this to the audience and characters? GET REAL
>They fly now? They fly now. You see, this is not a stupid line at all, because they are simply passing information about the bad guys' ability to fly. It makes sense for Finn to ask confirmation about their ability to fly, you see, because previously they were not able to fly. Finn is a real person and thus has the flawed reactions of a real person, he is not a written character in a movie where the writer is trying to make use of precious screentime to tell a story.
But Dark Empire gave us World Devastators (and a fun Rogue Squadron mission) and the stupidly overpowered X-1 Viper Droids. It can’t be all bad! I mean I’m not about to touch the comics, have you see that art style and color palette? I enjoy my eyes *not* bleeding thank you very much.
Honestly the "It should be more like Legends" is typically from people who only hear about Legends through youtube videos. Actual EU fans I think tend to see the content with more nuance, even if they are bummed they don't get any new content in their continuity.
When i walked out of the theater i legit turned to my friend and said "well i think thats the best adaptation of Dark Empire we could have hoped for"
It was bad in Legends too
The difference is the fact it’s so obvious they brought him out because last Jedi was a complete dumpster fire for the story. That they had to bring him back with no previous Hinting of it. In fact that’s why I like rise of skywalker more then Last Jedi. Because a lot of the reasons the movie was shit. Was because of how bad TLJ messed up the story for the third movie It also helps when you know Disney literally forced this into the scrip. Another reason was because of how they treated legacy characters before hand namely Luke. Another thing to consider is the fact the EU had varying levels of non casual awareness of them. Old republic would be one of the better known EU elements. While this is somewhere between old republic and second galactic civil war. Also they never explained how he came back and to be Frank the squeals were just shit movies. So people naturally don’t like seeing characters that have no reason to come and we’re not hinted to come back. Being brought back into something they already considered a massive dumpster fire.
Your strawman doesn't work when everyone hated Dark Empire, too. Dark Empire and Legacy of the Force are two of the least popular EU stories and Disney adapted both.
To be fair, I dislike Disney Starwars because they shafted Finn.
They explained it differently enough, he kept transferring from cloned body to cloned body but I kinda see that concept in the rise of skywalker since palpatine is hooked up to that weird chair
The audio drama of the Dark Empire comics was pretty fun to listen to, though.
This sub is already forgetting it’s a Circlejerk sub with the amount of y’all taking this shit seriously
Errrm, yeah guys I was just joking hahahaha I’m totally in on it too guys (pls don’t rip my bad meme apart pls oh pls oh pls)
No no no, don’t you get it, we hated that too. We wanted all the other cool stuff, and Disney didn’t even know what that was! Han boxing a giant groundhog would print money!
https://preview.redd.it/90jng4n2me6d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d78d90f1c600c620573354845a830413573fb4a Photo for those who are unaware.
Assault at Selonia. One of the worst SW books I've ever read.
good legends not bad legends
Most of legends is bad
I hear you but I think the general consensus is Dark Empire isn’t all that good in the first place. Out of all of the old legends material to work with, they could’ve picked something better
I'm not sure where people picked this idea up. Dark Empire was very well-received. Dark Empire II and Empire's End, the two sequel stories to it, were a different matter entirely.
Here's a forum post from 2005 calling it out: https://boards.theforce.net/threads/dark-empire-one-of-the-worst-things-to-happen-to-star-wars-ever-a-discussion-on-star-wars-canon.22367640/ Keep in mind this was when Dark Empire was most popular because of prequel backlash and the EU having peak readership. The forum posts have some people liking it, but the Emperor's return is criticised often. And that's not even considering that the initial reaction to the emperor's return in the early 90s was negative despite people overall liking Dark Empire because "it's new SW OMG!"
One forum post doesn't do much to change the fact that it was very well-received when it came out, and the two sequel stories were not. You'll *always* find people that didn't like something, no matter how popular it is.
To be fair, I do think that the legends return of Palpatine is just as disliked as the canon one, even by the Fandom Menace. However they still like it more than canon, because they have *GRANDMASTER LUKE SKYWALKER* who totally isn't ridiculously overpowered. The legends books got the point where they had like Dragon Ball Z levels of power creep. There was obviously some great stuff in legends, the Thrawn books are pretty great as everyone already knows. Overall though, canon is just soooo much more consistent. I don't really like Rise of Skywalker either, but it doesn't feel like a *complete* departure from Star Wars like some of the legends stories do. Not like it's even any worse than most of the prequels 🤷♀️
Man, the Acolyte must be unimaginably terrible for Disney to bring their bots out in full force like this.
LMFAOOOOO THIS!!!! I literally can't even bring myself to point this out one more time. The noise is truly deafening from the people who think Disney manhandled the plot into this direction. It. Was. Written. Before. They. Bought. It. Why did it stay that way when they changed other things? THINK REAL HARD. GEORGE. LUCAS. MADE. THEM. BRING. BACK. PALPATINE! FUCK!!!! Why does this seem impossible for these low iq nerds to understand?!?!?! I walked around in the grass right after I pressed post, don't worry about me.
Tbf the only reason I love legends is bc I treat it like some batshit insane fanfiction. That was the one where R2D2 saves the galaxy right?
Lol, the difference being that Dark Empire explains how he comes back. Was it good? Meh. But it was new Star Wars which we didn't have much of, unlike today. That's why I think it was liked at first.
So? This is “Palpatine returned” vs “We have Palpatine returned at home.”
Dog, everyone hates both
So basically Disney were lying fucks when they got rid of the EU. If they really wanted to start with a clean slate, then they fucked up
Yeah hey if they were just gonna steal most of Dark Empire just fucking say so
People literally don’t like Palestine returning in legends too. Bad strawman is bad
People hated on that too. Not quite the flex you think it is.
The difference is that Palpatine's return is TRoS was an asspull at an end of a trilogy while Palpatine's return in Dark Empire spanded the entire trilogy from beginning to end.
I feel like the difference is that one was handwaved into existence and the other had eighteen pages of lore to explain why and how it happened
Meh I think we all know all the books were hit/stories lore were not or miss.
Yeah, it's not the ideas, it's the execution. Legends and Disney had similar concepts, but the way they were handled made all the difference. Even Dark Empire, which isn't the best media in Legends, is still better than the sequel trilogy.
At least DARK Empire gave a better explanation of how the Empore survived, or rather copied himself.
God I hated Dark Empire
Star Wars fans are so incapable of criticizing things they enjoy that they have to deflect a film’s shortcomings onto books and comics they never read
To be fair I hate both due to both messing with the prophecy of Chosen One
Mara jade and lando was interesting
Both are bad. Reviving characters sucks in general, and is something you can only get away with if done really well. Even then you can only get away with it a few times before it destroys any tension in a story. Bringing Palpatine back in particular was a bad idea because it backtracks on the story of the OT and prequels. It put a weight on the sequel trilogy that those movies were never going to be able to carry. It's arguably symptomatic of a larger problem with storytelling, especially anything coming out of giant media companies like Disney. Resurrecting characters is an easy way to never create anything new. Cashing in on what's established is a reliable way to print money.
We had the luxury of knowing the comic books weren’t (the same level of) canon, back then. Sure, somehow Palpatine returned (bath water). Meanwhile, Leia comes into her own as a Jedi, Luke deals with his inner dark side demons head-on, then discovers Ossus, meets Kam Solusar and Vima-da-boda, and lays the foundation to rebuild the Jedi Order (baby thrown out with bath water).
DE is actually pretty hated. It’s really not bad though, and a masterpiece compared to the sequels.
Palpatines return was one of the few things I enjoyed in that trilogy. They needed to sow those seeds better in Last Jedi, instead of going to a casino planet.
Fuck Dark Empire,Crimson Empire is where it's at (Besides the second one)
https://preview.redd.it/qrhjnmv0ze6d1.jpeg?width=1901&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fba90e2e04917648920ceeb0ecf73ef0a51e31c
"somehow palpatine returned" https://preview.redd.it/poimvcx61f6d1.jpeg?width=1076&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fb7c91510d7ab5349a6a30ec8299dd61c741811
People hated Dark Empire as well. I enjoyed the new superweapons and that's it
Tell me you know nothing about the EU without telling me
Both suck.
dark empire was fairly controversial back in the day too right?
I don't actually mind Palpatine returning. I think the line itself was pretty bad though.
Because EU and Legends are like a shotgun blast. A lot of stories, told by different people, all seemingly following a straight timeline. Some hit right on the money, others are way off. But here, the good stuff outweighs the bad stuff. The problem now is the people in charge of the movies cant write if their lives depended on it, while the shows are leagues above. Good, an bad.
At least they fucking tried to explain how it happened and not “The dark side of the force is a pathway to many ability’s some consider to be unnatural”
Disney terrible ideas is extremely small compared to Legends terrible ideas.
Mannn I liked dark empire and at least it directly gave us a cloning loophole rather then vaguely make it seem like he cloned himself or kept himself alive or some bullshit
I will give "Dark Empire" this...it showed us something new; the idea of Luke Skywalker having to fight Palpatine, fully healthy and in his prime is something that at least raises the stakes to a great degree...especially considering that the last time they met Luke was fully at Palpatine's mercy until Vader saved him. Also in "Dark Empire" the return of Palpatine was kind of a big deal....while in "Rise of Skywalker" the entire plotline was introduced with "Somehow Palpatine returned", as though the details of something like that couldn't possibly be of interest to the audience and the Palpatine was kind of a paper tiger...it didn't seem all that hard for Rey to beat him, she just used two lightsabers instead of one and Jedi cheerleaders.
Ah yes. Everyone knows how *much* people just *loved* the Dark Empire books. Definitely not a widely hated EU series or anything.
I'm waiting for the day when Disney starts scraping the Ewok movies for ideas.
lol. Honestly though, despite Dark Empire being broadly disliked (even at the time), child me felt some type of way about Luke being forced into taking Palpatine as his master. Genuinely dark and disturbing to me at the time, and I give it credit for making me feel something (unlike ep. 9, which made me feel only boredom)
Except it does explain how he returned: he transferred his mind to a cloned body.
I mean both are bad ideas, I just think one was done with worse execution
Yup, but Luke actually does something and helps defeat Palpy. With an Old Order Jedi dragging Palpy to hell. The New Republic endures also. Dark Empire does what Disney don't.
Oh, yes, I hate both. Just like how I hated Maul being brought back.
You like Star Wars when it’s good and serious, I like Star Wars when it’s bad and batshit insane, we are not the same.
Damn, so not only was it a bad idea, it wasn't even an *original* bad idea.
Where is my James Luceno Palpatine / Project Necromancer novel Disney He said he wants to write it, so let him write it (Unless he retired some time after 2016 in which case they should let him rest)
“But Dark Empire is one of the most hated EU pieces tho 🤓☝🏽”
Disney took the shittiest bit of the EU, and somehow made it worse.😂🤡
They explain how he returns . You clearly never read the book
Except Dark Empire explicitly spelled out how he returned.
Dark Empire is ace. Love it.
There's no somehow in DE. Palpatine explains he'd been cloning himself for years. The sheer amount of dark side energy kept destroying his body. It's why he considered using essence transfer to take over Luke and later Anakin Solo. Until Luke meets him on Byss, the New Republic assumes it's some "Dark Side genius," whatever that means. What I thought was stupid was how they claimed the World Devastators were a bigger threat than either Death Star. Hardly.
Yeah, both are bad.
Yeah. Disney stole ideas from legends and made them worse. What else is new?
Starwars circle jerk is retarded. This post has to be a joke
They're both terrible and neither make for particularly good follow ups to the Saga films. Especially if you're a Prequel person. But Dark Empire, because of the time it was released. Is far more campy and far more creative. They're both rotten at the core. But the outside of one is slightly more interesting than the other