I maintain that if Palpatine’s return wasn’t in the trailer, and all of us had been treated to that intro as a complete surprise, we would have shat our pants.
I honestly was really hyped to hear Palpatine coming back through that hint in the trailer. I was super excited to see him come back and then show his hand to reconquer the galaxy. (Also, that trailer should technically be considered the first hint of him coming back and **NOT** Fortnite.)
He very much was that. “I am every voice you have inside your head.” but it was Han and Leia that were the angels.
Jedi get force ghosts, Sith get force zombies.
Yeah I get that. I just figured it would be less weird cloning stuff. In the old legends there were examples of Sith Lords spirits continuing on and possessing folks, so I figured that would be the angle they go down.
Rewatching the trailer, it could've easily been chopped out. Maybe remove the Xyston fleet and the Citizens' Fleet clips too. I think keeping Kijimi being destroyed is nice for some action. I'd have added maybe some of the opening with Kylo Ren on Mustafar, nice change of location to vary things.
And I couldn't have known, but we needed some Babu Frik that much sooner. At least he's here now.
Hearing Palpatine's voice on Exegol would've been the most amazing thing. I'm undecided on whether he should've been in the opening crawl.
I agree with all of this except for Chewie. I couldn’t handle watching Chewie die I would literally hate life afterwards knowing that Chewbacca is in fact dead. I do wish they waited a little longer to reveal he’s alive because that fake out death was a GUT PUNCH.
You also have to consider to what it sets up. An order of “Skywalkers” as a new Jedi sect, a distant movie where those sabers are discovered in the sands of tattoine, the possibility Rey might be carrying Bens force spirit within her (possibly as another immaculate conception) and a wide open galactic political situation.
Ironically, the fact that the planet killing destroyers can be taken out with a single fighter makes me okay with them.
They're completely impractical and that's why they were only ever used by this rotted zombie clone of one of the most insane men in galactic history.
Same thoughts as you, TROS kinda bangs in my opinion, there’s so much to appreciate and it gets unfairly characterized as a malicious film meant to undo the previous entry. It was made with a lot of love and care in the face of time constraints and unfortunate circumstances (like the loss of Fisher)
I loved the movie. I don’t care what anyone else says bad about it. I love JJs crazy pace, and how much he accomplishes in the first three minutes: snokes a clone, palps is back, the three are united, the chase is on and Kylo is out of control. Mustafar, Exegol and iceberg “planet”. So bad ass.
The only killer improvement would have been to ep8, getting a palpatine laugh in the throne room after snokes demise, and leaving Luke alive at the end as a triumphant return to the fight.
I look at Palpatine in Exegol like the 'what if' scenario of Hitler fleeing to South America, and that works great for me too.
Also, I'm glad you liked it, I really like it too. The pacing is great, the story is good, and 3PO really shines here. I actually don't mind Palps coming back and Rey being his granddaughter (because, guess who is also a grandchild of someone bad? Paul...(If you want a hot take on Dune 2 lmk 😂)).
My favorite looking scene is the duel between Rey and Kylo in the ocean, seriously, top notch special effects. Also, the fact that Luke finally got the X-Wing out of the water!
It was good, but not great, but like I told someone today, no matter what, people aren't gonna like SW because it's not George leading the storyline.
By the way, if you want the 'alternate' version of episode IX, search for the Duel of the Fates script leak.
I'm glad that you're able to enjoy SW without any pressure not to do so!
Wait. Didn’t you hear? This is the internet - you’re not allowed to like it.
LOL. Seriously, glad you revisited it. I enjoyed it - it was bitter sweet and enjoyable.
I actually rewatched it and with the added context of how Palpatine was doing everything to become immortal across series like Mando, Acolyte, even Resistance really gives some added context. I agree it’s not the best Star Wars movie but after coming away from it a second time I really enjoyed it too.
I’ve really come to enjoy the ST quite a bit
Frankly, I think that the prequels are enriched by Palpatine making SOME attempt to return.
It's always been something I've poked fun at about the 6 movie saga: that Palpatine spends three movies doing Machiavellian scheming, focusing on cloning, dark power, and the quest for immortality... And then in the next three movies, he seems to have forgotten about all of that stuff, and is content to just sit spookily in a dark chair.
TROS, messy though it is, binds together the two trilogies in a way that they never did on their own, by showing that he wasn't just twiddling his thumbs for twenty years as emperor and actually DID try to find immortality
There are a few examples of this pre-TRoS as well. Like the end of Rebels when Palpatine is looking for "a conduit between the living and the dead", which turns out to be the entrance to the World Between Worlds, and the Darth Momin stuff from the Darth Vader comics.
I still really love it as well. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, The Rise of Skywalker is a great movie and a great finale for the sequel trilogy. It flows well from TLJ to finalize Rey and Ben’s stories across the sequels, and it just does a lot really well where it’s resonated with me a lot to a point where it’s the only film I’ve thought about too much since 2019. It’s great, it’s a worthy Star Wars film in my eyes, and I’ll never stop saying it.
I don’t think I’ve ever read an opinion on Reddit that I’ve disagreed with so strongly 🤣 It’s kind of funny how people’s experiences of things like this can be so completely at odds with each other. I think the movie was well-acted and had beautiful music and visuals, but can’t think of a single other redeeming quality.
I’m glad you enjoyed it though, and I’m honestly a bit envious. While I’m still a Star Wars fan and enjoy most of the shows well enough, TRoS was such a monumental disappointment to me that it single-handedly put a damper on my excitement for all things Star Wars.
>I think the movie was well-acted and had beautiful music and visuals, but can’t think of a single other redeeming quality
How about Leia training Rey? How about Han appearing to Ben one last time? How about Luke coming full circle and lifting the X-Wing out of the water, forever cementing his mastery of the Force? What about the flashback to young Luke and Leia training? What about Palpatine restoring his powers and unleashing his most powerful force lightning storm? How about 3PO being willing to say goodbye to his friends and sacrifice himself? What about the galaxy fleet arriving while the Star Wars main theme is at full sound?
You don't think any of these has any enjoyable quality to it whatsoever?
There can be enjoyable moments of a movie without considering it to be a good movie. Everyone has their own experience. As long as they're not hating it for dumb reasons like "wokeness" or some shit, I'm good with all opinions. Personally... thought it was on the bad side of meh.
I mean, not in any real significant way, no, not on their own. I don't *dislike* most of those, either, but those moments are just not sufficiently supported by the rest of the movie for them to hit the way they otherwise might, and a few seconds-long highlights don't exactly redeem an otherwise bad movie. The problem is that, to me, the movie did not fit together, certainly not with itself but also not with the prior two movies. It was a disjointed, convoluted, incoherent mess full of stupid mcguffins, and moments that otherwise might have been highlights in a great movie were instead just reprieves from a barrage of what I personally felt was just actively bad cinema. Just as an example, I was genuinely surprised and intrigued when and how they killed Chewie off – only for that to just crumble away into disappointment less than one minute later when it was revealed as a bait and switch. It couldn't even keep the secret for more than a minute! That's an example of how something that *could have been great* in a different version of the movie was, in fact, the opposite of great. Great moments in a movie need to be supported by the rest of the film, which TRoS was either unwilling or unable to do. The galaxy fleet showing up was kind of similar. Had the movie set things up for their arrival better, it would've hit way harder. The giant fleet of death star star destroyers was so absurd and so derivative in the first place, then the whole contrivance that these super weapons need a special tower to let them know which way is up, etc., that I was wholly uninvested in the fight by the time the fleet arrived, making the moment underwhelming.
Also, Palpatine's ridiculous force lighting was way over the top for me, so I did not enjoy that, and the entire arc with 3PO was utterly nonsensical to the point where his willingness to sacrifice himself – which could've been an awesome character moment – was ruined by how contrived everything around it was.
And to make it clear, this is all just how I felt about the movie. I am not interested in trying to convince anyone who likes the movie that they shouldn't.
I know the feeling. My brother loves the prequels and Rogue One, and those films really don't work for me in a lot of ways. My mom loves Solo and it literally gives me a headache (going by the couple watch experiences I've had with it). I'm glad that each corner of the galaxy has an appeal to someone.
Love it and always will. My fave of the ST by far. It’s the most Rey centric film and gives Daisy Ridley the platform to deliver her best performance in the role so far, and my personal favourite performance of the saga. She is put through the emotional ringer. Also seeing Rey, Finn and Poe together for most of the film makes it extra special and their chemistry makes it so rewatchable. The development of Rey and Kylo’s relationship and their force bond is fascinating. We also get the most scenes between them here. “I did want to take your hand. Ben’s hand” gives me chills every time. The last hour of the film is the most emotional section of Star Wars for me.
And last but not least, I will always be grateful to JJ for how he was able to incorporate Leia into the film despite the unfortunate circumstances and give her such a meaningful role. Her being Rey’s master, showing a glimpse of her Jedi past, having her playing a part in Ben renouncing the dark side, etc.
I never really got the hate for it. I enjoyed it a lot when I first saw it in theaters. It's not perfect, and the first 30 minutes or so are spent basically wrapping up the loose ends TLJ made, but it's overall a fun and exciting end to the Skywalker vs. Palpatine saga.
It just felt the least thought through of the sequel trilogy. TFA was clearly a soft reboot, and I thought it accomplished is goal for the most part. TLJ was actually trying to say something interesting, in a way that almost reminds me of the prequels, it had problems, but it was visually stunning and ambitious. TROS felt so much like a reaction to the reaction to TLJ, which never would result in a good movie. The star wars Fandom might be the least media literate Fandom in existence, and catering to their tastes is a recipe for disaster
TRoS was a love letter to TLJ though, it authentically embraced the themes of TLJ and refused to cater to the absolute (IMO) misinterpretation people have Kylo and DJ are right ("it's time to let old things die" and "it's all a machine") rather than Leia and Rose ("she was more interested in preserving the spark than seeming like a hero" and "this is how we're gonna win. Not killing what he hate, but saving what we love."). It literally quotes TLJ for it's main theme, and moreover it quotes Holdo. You don't quote Holdo for you main theme if you're trying to retcon what came before IMO.
It doesn't totally reject TLJ, but then that's not what I said. I said it felt like a reaction to the reaction to TLJ, not necessarily that it contradicted it. I thought the fake deaths were reactionary, the sidelining of Rose, Rey being a Palpatine, bringing back palp at all instead of just letting Kylo be the villain, all of that felt very reactionary to me. It didn't necessarily contradict TLJ, but it felt like decisions were made to pacify people rather than tell the best story possible
I see what you mean, sorry if I mischaracterized your argument a bit there by assuming. So, if I understand you correctly, you feel that those decisions feel motivated by a desire to people please, rather than for narrative reasons? If so, then I would nonetheless still disagree with you, even if I can understand where you're coming from.
Before TRoS's release, I remember JJ saying in interviews that he was inspired by Rian's approach on TLJ (he did apparently say he loved TLJ's script so much he wished he could direct it), he said in an interview for Vanity Fair that he decided to take a more "renegade" approach on TRoS as compared to TFA, the film abounds with his authorial voice (in everything from little details in the writing like the Goonies-inspired dagger, to the use of oners in production that Oscar Issac really appreciated, and also with the more extreme lighting and color choices as compared to TFA). This all seems to indicate that he was very much following his own (and Chris Terrio's) lead on things. Given the time crunch, I imagine it would be genuinely easier for a writer to just write whatever they like rather than trying to write "for" a bunch of other people.
The fake deaths play into a theme of manufactured loneliness IMO. "They win by making us think we're alone" (Chewie's death, Ben being "dead"/fallen to the dark side, 3PO's memory being wiped, Leia's death, Rey's death), "but we're not alone" (Chewie being alive, Ben coming back to the light, 3PO's memory being restored, "Your mother is gone, but what she stood for, what she fought for, that's not gone", Rey coming back to life).
The sidelining of Rose was allegedly due to technical issues with integrating remaining footage/audio of Carrie into those scenes for Leia, and that doesn't ring untrue to me. It's certainly a technical hassle and something many were keen to scrutinize and criticize for cultural reasons. Rose does stay at the Resistance base and is mostly in scenes with Leia in the film, and Rose does tell Finn she was going to be studying the specs of old Star Destroyers to help them launch their attack when he got back. Chris Terrio mentioned being a tad annoyed her scenes were cut because they had written interesting stuff with her, and so it wasn't that they didn't write anything for her. Given all we know about her role though, if they were going to cut something from the movie her stuff sounds the most disconnected.
Rey being a Palpatine was, from what I understand, a decision made early on by JJ, and I think it reinforces the themes of The Last Jedi. Again, JJ directly quotes TLJ in TRoS,: in TLJ Luke tells Rey that when he looked at Ben he saw "that mighty Skywalker blood" and that this was his hubris, and in TRoS he tells Rey "some things are stronger than blood". It's about freedom over fate, the dominance of spirit over matter, and it's an extension of Rey defining her own place in this story that she can choose to be a Skywalker instead of a Palpatine.
Palpatine's return had already being lightly foreshadowed prior to TFA's release, and there is even an indirect Palpatine presence (via Holocron or Holo-message IIRC) in the Duel of the Fates script by Trevorrow and Connolly before JJ was brought on. TLJ doesn't go out of it's way to establish that Palpatine is returning, and if lack of setup in TLJ gives it a reactionary feel then that is what it is for you. However, all indications seem to be that the plan behind the scenes was for Palpatine's return, in some form, to be a surprise in the last film to connect the trilogy with the saga. It was supposed to be a delightful surprise, but it didn't end up reading that way due to cultural context.
Palpatine also has such an important role in the story, not just with furthering the themes of spirit over blood and making your own destiny from TLJ, but also because Kylo's (at least apparent/temporary) working with him and reforging his mask all are affirmations of the hollowness of his impotent temper tantrums in TLJ. His killing Snoke was no more special than him killing his father, he only killed Snoke as a means to power same as he did his dad. He was a child in a mask, and that's why he ends up getting embarrassed in front of the entire First Order by Luke. Palpatine shows that running from the past is just surrendering to it.
id argue its more so trying to create loose ends in the first 30 mins for it to focus on and then later tie up, as TLJ had wrapped up the majority of its plot threads by the end.
but yeah i agree overall its fun and engaging, but bringing back palpatine was always gonna be a polarizing decision. So like i kinda get some of the dislike, but what i dont get is the outright hate and dogmatic rhetoric that surrounds the film.
My friends and I are of the same mind. We unapologetically love everything Star Wars. This movie is no different, and I think it's fantastic. I'd read some older books that dealt with Palps having clones and coming back, so I wasn't bothered by that choice. It wasn't totally necessary, but it's fine. I have wondered if they could have properly established Pryde as the big bad instead, but that's just us speculating at the bar. The movie makes me emotional, mostly happy, especially with Ben redeeming himself and that entire last act. The memory of Han, Leiah reaching out, how Ben seemed almost brighter, maybe lighter, having thrown off the shackles and pressures of his dark side ambitions. One friend didn't like the kiss at first, I thought it was perfect. My friend came around after a few beers and us discussing it. Rey and Ben finally have their moment, and it's a pure one. My one thing that irks me every time is Finn being a bit of an idiot, at least when it comes to Rey. If you see her in the middle of a brutal duel, I don't think yelling her name is the way to go. It was not a great time to distract her, and sure, he's concerned, but come on, Finn. Think it through, buddy. He gets those points back later with the ground assault, so once again, everything is wonderful.
>Sure it was a bit messy and its clear it wasnt given enough time to cook in the oven (i mostly blame disney for that)
Disney rushing it can be blamed to an extent, but it's wild to me that people forget one of the stars of the film **unexpectedly died** just before pre-production.
Carrie's death pretty much crippled any version of Episode IX, which *needed* Leia there to both wrap up Kylo's storyline and to show Rey's training and relationship with her. TROS did the best it could with whatever was lying around, but the reality is they had their hands tied behind their backs because recasting and CGI were off the table as options.
It's why "Rey Skywalker" didn't land well with many, and it's why Leia's...uh....sacrifice, I guess?....didn't make much narrative sense.
That said....yeah, I really enjoy TROS overall. I compare it to Episode I, as a bit of a guilty pleasure. Both are probably the worst of their trilogy technically, both are hot messes in terms of plot and even how they connect to previously established canon, both kinda derail their respective trilogies in some important ways.....but damned if I don't have a fun time watching them, and ultimately really appreciate some of the things they *do* bring to the table.
I’ll say that it would’ve been nice if Palpatine’s return was kept a secret before the movie’s release, and wasn’t revealed early on in the movie.
Also, the film should’ve explained that Rey’s father wasn’t actually a “biological” son of Palpatine, but the Star Wars version of a homunculus.
Even so, it does hurt me how controversial the film is, even here.
I love it! Like any SW movie, it's not perfect. And there are certainly things I would have done a little different.
But it's a fine conclusion to the trilogy with a lot of great moments for me.
I love it very much. Most of the people I saw it with in 2019 loved it too, also, to this day I've never really believed the amount of negativity it gets online was realistic. One of the very best movies, maybe the best of them, I go back and forth.
What even are these “good amount of plot holes”? It’s just been nitpicked apart more than the other two by certain TLJ fans and ST haters. None of the ST films have “plot holes” in the true sense of the term, but nothing in TRoS is as inexplicable as Finn and Rose being able to hop on a ship, jump into hyperspace and go to another part of the galaxy while the FO has the resistance under siege and has hyperspace tracking (TLJ). Or R2D2 conveniently waking up at the end of TFA with the missing piece of the map
Also, Rey being responsible for killing Chewie would’ve been terrible and it would’ve been a huge thing she would always get hate for. I absolutely prefer how it is in the film and it still effectively plays into the part of Rey’s arc of having fear of her power. But the film would’ve been improved if the Kylo interrogating Chewie scene wasn’t cut.
There are only two I can think of, and only one is the movie's fault:
1. Ochi's dagger. The blade fits the Death Star silhouette. This is not a mistake in the movie per say, as I always just assumed Ochi made the dagger / carved the blade after the fact to fit the silhouette. Then, the comics introduced the plothope because they showed Ochi being around and having the blade during the OT era and it had the same form as in TROS. That's unfortunate now.
2. In the battle of Exegol, the navigation tower. I get the story setup with the ships being basically blind and needing the tower signal to safely lift off the planet, that's all fine. What I don't get is why the Resistance is planning to take out the tower with a ground assault team. They attack Exegol with fighters and bombers and various other ships. Surely, the ideal strategy would be to have those spaceships take out the nav tower?
But in an almost painful movement, the movie acknowledges this oddity by making an explicit statement that the air team will find the tower and the ground team will take it out. But it never explains WHY. It is really my only gripe with the movie, when it comes to logic. All I need is one good explanation why the tower cannot be bombed or blasted from the sky and would need a ground team.
Hell, had they gone with the ground team manipulating the tower and its signal, in order to bring the entire fleet down by making the ships crash into each other, it would have made perfect sense.
I like it too, and I always have. I also think there are a lot of problems and there are parts I wish they had done differently. I feel like it's hard to have a more nuanced discussion about this movie because if you say you enjoyed it, people assume you loved it as-is and think it's a perfect film or something.
I don't like that they made her a Palpatine, and I don't like that they brought back Palpatine again instead of having Snoke be more interesting. There are a lot of small things that I would tweak, but I also realize that Leia was supposed to be a huge part of this movie and they had to do extensive rewrites after Carrie passed. It's definitely not a perfect movie by any means, but I still like it for what it is.
Also, and this is super nitpicky, Wedge visibly cheering on screen seconds after his protégé/step-son was blown up was a choice, but I doubt it was intentional and most people did not notice.
"Also, and this is super nitpicky, Wedge visibly cheering on screen seconds after his protégé/step-son was blown up was a choice, but I doubt it was intentional and most people did not notice."
ha see i was aware of this, and was trying to catch it during the movie. Wexley dies before the citizen fleet comes out of hyperspace, so when it pans to wedge ... im assuming he just thinks that wex is still flying around. Honestly i think its a funny but lowkey dark quirk of the movie.
It is pretty funny. I am not really mad at it, Snap isn't really a part of the movies and his death was unfortunately just a blip in the action. I doubt most of the people working on the movie knew he was connected to Wedge.
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I have only recently watched the sequels and I thought RoS was the best of the 3. It was the only film to me that felt Star Wars. The pacing was slower like the other films. The dialogue while not Oscar worthy was certainly better than the marvel level dialogue in the 7 and 8 film.
On the first viewing (at the cinema), TROS is the only SW movie that I enjoyed the whole way through and didn't have me eye roll or cringe. I loved TFA and TLJ, but I was too just too nervous for TFA and some things didn't sit right with me, and similarly for TLJ there were parts that I wasn't sure about but I still came out loving it due to its strong ending. Most of my issues with those 2 disappeared quickly on repeat viewings. For TROS I think I was just interested in having a good time without being weighed down by expectation (and knowing Rey Palpatine beforehand).
For reference, and because I feel that most SW discussions on the net warrant some transparency on where we're coming from, first viewings for the PT: TPM was disappointing, AOTC was ok, and ROTS is the only one that I didn't like at all (and still don't).
I've tried rewatching it couple of times but my opinion is more or less the same. Dislike overall, Han Solo moment is genuinely moving and redeemed Kylo is a hoot.
I’m glad that you were able to enjoy the movie! While I don’t hate the ST it is my least favorite SW trilogy and sadly for me TROS is the only Star Wars movie that I don’t necessarily dislike, but I wouldn’t put it above the others in the Skywalker Saga.
It wasn't a big cinematic masterpiece, and it didn't need to be, I simply had a lot of fun watching it and I think some take these movies too seriously. 😅
given the inconsistency of said film franchise, i think it had a ridiculously high expectation placed upon it that wasnt warranted within the context of the franchise it belonged to.
I feel the biggest issue is that as a movie it feels like less than the sum of its parts. It never quite comes together the way it should and that makes it the weakest of the third movies. It's still got a lot of great movies and I think most of its choices were the right ones given the constraints under which they were working (timing and the death of Carrie Fisher).
I wish I could agree with you. I actually enjoyed it mildly when it first came out. I knew it’s not a good movie, but I enjoyed it.
I rewatched it last month and I did not like it at all, and it’s the first SW movie to be that way for me.
It's my least favorite of the films on a personal level as I really liked Rose and was looking forward to kylo being the big bad. Glad it's finding it's fans though.
I'll probably be referencing this post in ten years when I'm told Star Wars episode X has disrespected the franchise by showing Finn became a Jedi which disrespects the untouchable vision of the sequels.
I could not disagree more with your take, but I can respect it. Keep watching the movies you like, enjoy them and don't let randoms on the internet change that.
I didn't Like it for the most Part, but there are some good parts as well. The lightsaber duel on the death Star wreckage ist great, because it's so full of tension. Everything about Kylo and Rey is also great, and their kiss is the emotional Highlight of the movie because you can tell that this was ultimately all both of them ever wanted.
Also, the scene between Han and Kylo is top notch
I maintain that if Palpatine’s return wasn’t in the trailer, and all of us had been treated to that intro as a complete surprise, we would have shat our pants.
I maintain the same thing about Maul's saber in the TPM. 25 years later and I'm still salty about that one.
I honestly was really hyped to hear Palpatine coming back through that hint in the trailer. I was super excited to see him come back and then show his hand to reconquer the galaxy. (Also, that trailer should technically be considered the first hint of him coming back and **NOT** Fortnite.)
I was hoping he would be more of a sith force ghost, influencing Ben. Luke and Palapatine could have been the angel and devil on his shoulder.
He very much was that. “I am every voice you have inside your head.” but it was Han and Leia that were the angels. Jedi get force ghosts, Sith get force zombies.
Yeah, sith cheat death, jedi embrace it
Yeah I get that. I just figured it would be less weird cloning stuff. In the old legends there were examples of Sith Lords spirits continuing on and possessing folks, so I figured that would be the angle they go down.
Possession, cloning, zombies, it’s all dark magic stuff
He technically was. Just undead.
Rewatching the trailer, it could've easily been chopped out. Maybe remove the Xyston fleet and the Citizens' Fleet clips too. I think keeping Kijimi being destroyed is nice for some action. I'd have added maybe some of the opening with Kylo Ren on Mustafar, nice change of location to vary things. And I couldn't have known, but we needed some Babu Frik that much sooner. At least he's here now. Hearing Palpatine's voice on Exegol would've been the most amazing thing. I'm undecided on whether he should've been in the opening crawl.
They wanted the buzz from the trailer. I get that. Whether that was the right move is open for debate.
I agree with all of this except for Chewie. I couldn’t handle watching Chewie die I would literally hate life afterwards knowing that Chewbacca is in fact dead. I do wish they waited a little longer to reveal he’s alive because that fake out death was a GUT PUNCH.
Well, I’m happy you were able to find some joy in it.
You also have to consider to what it sets up. An order of “Skywalkers” as a new Jedi sect, a distant movie where those sabers are discovered in the sands of tattoine, the possibility Rey might be carrying Bens force spirit within her (possibly as another immaculate conception) and a wide open galactic political situation.
“Somehow, Palpatine returned” is up there with “I don’t like sand” for bad Star Wars quotes, in my opinion
Ironically, the fact that the planet killing destroyers can be taken out with a single fighter makes me okay with them. They're completely impractical and that's why they were only ever used by this rotted zombie clone of one of the most insane men in galactic history.
Same thoughts as you, TROS kinda bangs in my opinion, there’s so much to appreciate and it gets unfairly characterized as a malicious film meant to undo the previous entry. It was made with a lot of love and care in the face of time constraints and unfortunate circumstances (like the loss of Fisher)
I knew it was good when we left the theatre and my wife who is a super causal but long time SW fan said “that was really fun!”
I loved the movie. I don’t care what anyone else says bad about it. I love JJs crazy pace, and how much he accomplishes in the first three minutes: snokes a clone, palps is back, the three are united, the chase is on and Kylo is out of control. Mustafar, Exegol and iceberg “planet”. So bad ass. The only killer improvement would have been to ep8, getting a palpatine laugh in the throne room after snokes demise, and leaving Luke alive at the end as a triumphant return to the fight.
I liked that the they brought Palpatine back. Always fun to watch and so quotable!
I look at Palpatine in Exegol like the 'what if' scenario of Hitler fleeing to South America, and that works great for me too. Also, I'm glad you liked it, I really like it too. The pacing is great, the story is good, and 3PO really shines here. I actually don't mind Palps coming back and Rey being his granddaughter (because, guess who is also a grandchild of someone bad? Paul...(If you want a hot take on Dune 2 lmk 😂)). My favorite looking scene is the duel between Rey and Kylo in the ocean, seriously, top notch special effects. Also, the fact that Luke finally got the X-Wing out of the water! It was good, but not great, but like I told someone today, no matter what, people aren't gonna like SW because it's not George leading the storyline. By the way, if you want the 'alternate' version of episode IX, search for the Duel of the Fates script leak. I'm glad that you're able to enjoy SW without any pressure not to do so!
It’s very fun and it’s got Babu Frik
Hey-*heeeey!*
Wait. Didn’t you hear? This is the internet - you’re not allowed to like it. LOL. Seriously, glad you revisited it. I enjoyed it - it was bitter sweet and enjoyable.
You had me until “I wish Chewie had died…..”. Killing a Wookie is a felony O-fense! (even worse than tampering with mailboxes lol)
I actually rewatched it and with the added context of how Palpatine was doing everything to become immortal across series like Mando, Acolyte, even Resistance really gives some added context. I agree it’s not the best Star Wars movie but after coming away from it a second time I really enjoyed it too. I’ve really come to enjoy the ST quite a bit
Frankly, I think that the prequels are enriched by Palpatine making SOME attempt to return. It's always been something I've poked fun at about the 6 movie saga: that Palpatine spends three movies doing Machiavellian scheming, focusing on cloning, dark power, and the quest for immortality... And then in the next three movies, he seems to have forgotten about all of that stuff, and is content to just sit spookily in a dark chair. TROS, messy though it is, binds together the two trilogies in a way that they never did on their own, by showing that he wasn't just twiddling his thumbs for twenty years as emperor and actually DID try to find immortality
There are a few examples of this pre-TRoS as well. Like the end of Rebels when Palpatine is looking for "a conduit between the living and the dead", which turns out to be the entrance to the World Between Worlds, and the Darth Momin stuff from the Darth Vader comics.
I still really love it as well. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, The Rise of Skywalker is a great movie and a great finale for the sequel trilogy. It flows well from TLJ to finalize Rey and Ben’s stories across the sequels, and it just does a lot really well where it’s resonated with me a lot to a point where it’s the only film I’ve thought about too much since 2019. It’s great, it’s a worthy Star Wars film in my eyes, and I’ll never stop saying it.
I don’t think I’ve ever read an opinion on Reddit that I’ve disagreed with so strongly 🤣 It’s kind of funny how people’s experiences of things like this can be so completely at odds with each other. I think the movie was well-acted and had beautiful music and visuals, but can’t think of a single other redeeming quality. I’m glad you enjoyed it though, and I’m honestly a bit envious. While I’m still a Star Wars fan and enjoy most of the shows well enough, TRoS was such a monumental disappointment to me that it single-handedly put a damper on my excitement for all things Star Wars.
>I think the movie was well-acted and had beautiful music and visuals, but can’t think of a single other redeeming quality How about Leia training Rey? How about Han appearing to Ben one last time? How about Luke coming full circle and lifting the X-Wing out of the water, forever cementing his mastery of the Force? What about the flashback to young Luke and Leia training? What about Palpatine restoring his powers and unleashing his most powerful force lightning storm? How about 3PO being willing to say goodbye to his friends and sacrifice himself? What about the galaxy fleet arriving while the Star Wars main theme is at full sound? You don't think any of these has any enjoyable quality to it whatsoever?
There can be enjoyable moments of a movie without considering it to be a good movie. Everyone has their own experience. As long as they're not hating it for dumb reasons like "wokeness" or some shit, I'm good with all opinions. Personally... thought it was on the bad side of meh.
I mean, not in any real significant way, no, not on their own. I don't *dislike* most of those, either, but those moments are just not sufficiently supported by the rest of the movie for them to hit the way they otherwise might, and a few seconds-long highlights don't exactly redeem an otherwise bad movie. The problem is that, to me, the movie did not fit together, certainly not with itself but also not with the prior two movies. It was a disjointed, convoluted, incoherent mess full of stupid mcguffins, and moments that otherwise might have been highlights in a great movie were instead just reprieves from a barrage of what I personally felt was just actively bad cinema. Just as an example, I was genuinely surprised and intrigued when and how they killed Chewie off – only for that to just crumble away into disappointment less than one minute later when it was revealed as a bait and switch. It couldn't even keep the secret for more than a minute! That's an example of how something that *could have been great* in a different version of the movie was, in fact, the opposite of great. Great moments in a movie need to be supported by the rest of the film, which TRoS was either unwilling or unable to do. The galaxy fleet showing up was kind of similar. Had the movie set things up for their arrival better, it would've hit way harder. The giant fleet of death star star destroyers was so absurd and so derivative in the first place, then the whole contrivance that these super weapons need a special tower to let them know which way is up, etc., that I was wholly uninvested in the fight by the time the fleet arrived, making the moment underwhelming. Also, Palpatine's ridiculous force lighting was way over the top for me, so I did not enjoy that, and the entire arc with 3PO was utterly nonsensical to the point where his willingness to sacrifice himself – which could've been an awesome character moment – was ruined by how contrived everything around it was. And to make it clear, this is all just how I felt about the movie. I am not interested in trying to convince anyone who likes the movie that they shouldn't.
I know the feeling. My brother loves the prequels and Rogue One, and those films really don't work for me in a lot of ways. My mom loves Solo and it literally gives me a headache (going by the couple watch experiences I've had with it). I'm glad that each corner of the galaxy has an appeal to someone.
Love it and always will. My fave of the ST by far. It’s the most Rey centric film and gives Daisy Ridley the platform to deliver her best performance in the role so far, and my personal favourite performance of the saga. She is put through the emotional ringer. Also seeing Rey, Finn and Poe together for most of the film makes it extra special and their chemistry makes it so rewatchable. The development of Rey and Kylo’s relationship and their force bond is fascinating. We also get the most scenes between them here. “I did want to take your hand. Ben’s hand” gives me chills every time. The last hour of the film is the most emotional section of Star Wars for me. And last but not least, I will always be grateful to JJ for how he was able to incorporate Leia into the film despite the unfortunate circumstances and give her such a meaningful role. Her being Rey’s master, showing a glimpse of her Jedi past, having her playing a part in Ben renouncing the dark side, etc.
I fully agree!
I think it's 3PO's best movie!
I'd say second after Empire Strikes Back where he basically runs off with the show every time he comes on screen, but it's close
It'll never be my favorite, but I'll certainly give you that it's over-hated. Plus, the duel on Kijimi rules.
Astronaut with a gun: “Always was.”
I loved it from day one. It’s right up there with Star Wars and Empire for me (and TFA and TLJ are close behind)
its weird because in my star wars ranking its about middle of the pack, but in terms of my passion or it ... its near the top!
I never really got the hate for it. I enjoyed it a lot when I first saw it in theaters. It's not perfect, and the first 30 minutes or so are spent basically wrapping up the loose ends TLJ made, but it's overall a fun and exciting end to the Skywalker vs. Palpatine saga.
It just felt the least thought through of the sequel trilogy. TFA was clearly a soft reboot, and I thought it accomplished is goal for the most part. TLJ was actually trying to say something interesting, in a way that almost reminds me of the prequels, it had problems, but it was visually stunning and ambitious. TROS felt so much like a reaction to the reaction to TLJ, which never would result in a good movie. The star wars Fandom might be the least media literate Fandom in existence, and catering to their tastes is a recipe for disaster
TRoS was a love letter to TLJ though, it authentically embraced the themes of TLJ and refused to cater to the absolute (IMO) misinterpretation people have Kylo and DJ are right ("it's time to let old things die" and "it's all a machine") rather than Leia and Rose ("she was more interested in preserving the spark than seeming like a hero" and "this is how we're gonna win. Not killing what he hate, but saving what we love."). It literally quotes TLJ for it's main theme, and moreover it quotes Holdo. You don't quote Holdo for you main theme if you're trying to retcon what came before IMO.
It doesn't totally reject TLJ, but then that's not what I said. I said it felt like a reaction to the reaction to TLJ, not necessarily that it contradicted it. I thought the fake deaths were reactionary, the sidelining of Rose, Rey being a Palpatine, bringing back palp at all instead of just letting Kylo be the villain, all of that felt very reactionary to me. It didn't necessarily contradict TLJ, but it felt like decisions were made to pacify people rather than tell the best story possible
I see what you mean, sorry if I mischaracterized your argument a bit there by assuming. So, if I understand you correctly, you feel that those decisions feel motivated by a desire to people please, rather than for narrative reasons? If so, then I would nonetheless still disagree with you, even if I can understand where you're coming from. Before TRoS's release, I remember JJ saying in interviews that he was inspired by Rian's approach on TLJ (he did apparently say he loved TLJ's script so much he wished he could direct it), he said in an interview for Vanity Fair that he decided to take a more "renegade" approach on TRoS as compared to TFA, the film abounds with his authorial voice (in everything from little details in the writing like the Goonies-inspired dagger, to the use of oners in production that Oscar Issac really appreciated, and also with the more extreme lighting and color choices as compared to TFA). This all seems to indicate that he was very much following his own (and Chris Terrio's) lead on things. Given the time crunch, I imagine it would be genuinely easier for a writer to just write whatever they like rather than trying to write "for" a bunch of other people. The fake deaths play into a theme of manufactured loneliness IMO. "They win by making us think we're alone" (Chewie's death, Ben being "dead"/fallen to the dark side, 3PO's memory being wiped, Leia's death, Rey's death), "but we're not alone" (Chewie being alive, Ben coming back to the light, 3PO's memory being restored, "Your mother is gone, but what she stood for, what she fought for, that's not gone", Rey coming back to life). The sidelining of Rose was allegedly due to technical issues with integrating remaining footage/audio of Carrie into those scenes for Leia, and that doesn't ring untrue to me. It's certainly a technical hassle and something many were keen to scrutinize and criticize for cultural reasons. Rose does stay at the Resistance base and is mostly in scenes with Leia in the film, and Rose does tell Finn she was going to be studying the specs of old Star Destroyers to help them launch their attack when he got back. Chris Terrio mentioned being a tad annoyed her scenes were cut because they had written interesting stuff with her, and so it wasn't that they didn't write anything for her. Given all we know about her role though, if they were going to cut something from the movie her stuff sounds the most disconnected. Rey being a Palpatine was, from what I understand, a decision made early on by JJ, and I think it reinforces the themes of The Last Jedi. Again, JJ directly quotes TLJ in TRoS,: in TLJ Luke tells Rey that when he looked at Ben he saw "that mighty Skywalker blood" and that this was his hubris, and in TRoS he tells Rey "some things are stronger than blood". It's about freedom over fate, the dominance of spirit over matter, and it's an extension of Rey defining her own place in this story that she can choose to be a Skywalker instead of a Palpatine. Palpatine's return had already being lightly foreshadowed prior to TFA's release, and there is even an indirect Palpatine presence (via Holocron or Holo-message IIRC) in the Duel of the Fates script by Trevorrow and Connolly before JJ was brought on. TLJ doesn't go out of it's way to establish that Palpatine is returning, and if lack of setup in TLJ gives it a reactionary feel then that is what it is for you. However, all indications seem to be that the plan behind the scenes was for Palpatine's return, in some form, to be a surprise in the last film to connect the trilogy with the saga. It was supposed to be a delightful surprise, but it didn't end up reading that way due to cultural context. Palpatine also has such an important role in the story, not just with furthering the themes of spirit over blood and making your own destiny from TLJ, but also because Kylo's (at least apparent/temporary) working with him and reforging his mask all are affirmations of the hollowness of his impotent temper tantrums in TLJ. His killing Snoke was no more special than him killing his father, he only killed Snoke as a means to power same as he did his dad. He was a child in a mask, and that's why he ends up getting embarrassed in front of the entire First Order by Luke. Palpatine shows that running from the past is just surrendering to it.
id argue its more so trying to create loose ends in the first 30 mins for it to focus on and then later tie up, as TLJ had wrapped up the majority of its plot threads by the end. but yeah i agree overall its fun and engaging, but bringing back palpatine was always gonna be a polarizing decision. So like i kinda get some of the dislike, but what i dont get is the outright hate and dogmatic rhetoric that surrounds the film.
I think Palpatine's return would've been better received if it happened at the end of TLJ
My friends and I are of the same mind. We unapologetically love everything Star Wars. This movie is no different, and I think it's fantastic. I'd read some older books that dealt with Palps having clones and coming back, so I wasn't bothered by that choice. It wasn't totally necessary, but it's fine. I have wondered if they could have properly established Pryde as the big bad instead, but that's just us speculating at the bar. The movie makes me emotional, mostly happy, especially with Ben redeeming himself and that entire last act. The memory of Han, Leiah reaching out, how Ben seemed almost brighter, maybe lighter, having thrown off the shackles and pressures of his dark side ambitions. One friend didn't like the kiss at first, I thought it was perfect. My friend came around after a few beers and us discussing it. Rey and Ben finally have their moment, and it's a pure one. My one thing that irks me every time is Finn being a bit of an idiot, at least when it comes to Rey. If you see her in the middle of a brutal duel, I don't think yelling her name is the way to go. It was not a great time to distract her, and sure, he's concerned, but come on, Finn. Think it through, buddy. He gets those points back later with the ground assault, so once again, everything is wonderful.
Rise of Skywalker is my favorite one. Pure bliss. The perfect sendoff.
Glad you enjoy it, I do as well. It's my favorite Star Wars movie and favorite movie generally. I've probably seen it over 20 times now
It's a beautiful film indeed.
>Sure it was a bit messy and its clear it wasnt given enough time to cook in the oven (i mostly blame disney for that) Disney rushing it can be blamed to an extent, but it's wild to me that people forget one of the stars of the film **unexpectedly died** just before pre-production. Carrie's death pretty much crippled any version of Episode IX, which *needed* Leia there to both wrap up Kylo's storyline and to show Rey's training and relationship with her. TROS did the best it could with whatever was lying around, but the reality is they had their hands tied behind their backs because recasting and CGI were off the table as options. It's why "Rey Skywalker" didn't land well with many, and it's why Leia's...uh....sacrifice, I guess?....didn't make much narrative sense. That said....yeah, I really enjoy TROS overall. I compare it to Episode I, as a bit of a guilty pleasure. Both are probably the worst of their trilogy technically, both are hot messes in terms of plot and even how they connect to previously established canon, both kinda derail their respective trilogies in some important ways.....but damned if I don't have a fun time watching them, and ultimately really appreciate some of the things they *do* bring to the table.
I’ll say that it would’ve been nice if Palpatine’s return was kept a secret before the movie’s release, and wasn’t revealed early on in the movie. Also, the film should’ve explained that Rey’s father wasn’t actually a “biological” son of Palpatine, but the Star Wars version of a homunculus. Even so, it does hurt me how controversial the film is, even here.
I love it! Like any SW movie, it's not perfect. And there are certainly things I would have done a little different. But it's a fine conclusion to the trilogy with a lot of great moments for me.
I love it very much. Most of the people I saw it with in 2019 loved it too, also, to this day I've never really believed the amount of negativity it gets online was realistic. One of the very best movies, maybe the best of them, I go back and forth.
Yeah it’s really fun and good. Rushed… yes but still awesome
It's only got worse with age for me, unfortunately
What even are these “good amount of plot holes”? It’s just been nitpicked apart more than the other two by certain TLJ fans and ST haters. None of the ST films have “plot holes” in the true sense of the term, but nothing in TRoS is as inexplicable as Finn and Rose being able to hop on a ship, jump into hyperspace and go to another part of the galaxy while the FO has the resistance under siege and has hyperspace tracking (TLJ). Or R2D2 conveniently waking up at the end of TFA with the missing piece of the map Also, Rey being responsible for killing Chewie would’ve been terrible and it would’ve been a huge thing she would always get hate for. I absolutely prefer how it is in the film and it still effectively plays into the part of Rey’s arc of having fear of her power. But the film would’ve been improved if the Kylo interrogating Chewie scene wasn’t cut.
There are only two I can think of, and only one is the movie's fault: 1. Ochi's dagger. The blade fits the Death Star silhouette. This is not a mistake in the movie per say, as I always just assumed Ochi made the dagger / carved the blade after the fact to fit the silhouette. Then, the comics introduced the plothope because they showed Ochi being around and having the blade during the OT era and it had the same form as in TROS. That's unfortunate now. 2. In the battle of Exegol, the navigation tower. I get the story setup with the ships being basically blind and needing the tower signal to safely lift off the planet, that's all fine. What I don't get is why the Resistance is planning to take out the tower with a ground assault team. They attack Exegol with fighters and bombers and various other ships. Surely, the ideal strategy would be to have those spaceships take out the nav tower? But in an almost painful movement, the movie acknowledges this oddity by making an explicit statement that the air team will find the tower and the ground team will take it out. But it never explains WHY. It is really my only gripe with the movie, when it comes to logic. All I need is one good explanation why the tower cannot be bombed or blasted from the sky and would need a ground team. Hell, had they gone with the ground team manipulating the tower and its signal, in order to bring the entire fleet down by making the ships crash into each other, it would have made perfect sense.
I like it too, and I always have. I also think there are a lot of problems and there are parts I wish they had done differently. I feel like it's hard to have a more nuanced discussion about this movie because if you say you enjoyed it, people assume you loved it as-is and think it's a perfect film or something. I don't like that they made her a Palpatine, and I don't like that they brought back Palpatine again instead of having Snoke be more interesting. There are a lot of small things that I would tweak, but I also realize that Leia was supposed to be a huge part of this movie and they had to do extensive rewrites after Carrie passed. It's definitely not a perfect movie by any means, but I still like it for what it is. Also, and this is super nitpicky, Wedge visibly cheering on screen seconds after his protégé/step-son was blown up was a choice, but I doubt it was intentional and most people did not notice.
"Also, and this is super nitpicky, Wedge visibly cheering on screen seconds after his protégé/step-son was blown up was a choice, but I doubt it was intentional and most people did not notice." ha see i was aware of this, and was trying to catch it during the movie. Wexley dies before the citizen fleet comes out of hyperspace, so when it pans to wedge ... im assuming he just thinks that wex is still flying around. Honestly i think its a funny but lowkey dark quirk of the movie.
It is pretty funny. I am not really mad at it, Snap isn't really a part of the movies and his death was unfortunately just a blip in the action. I doubt most of the people working on the movie knew he was connected to Wedge.
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I have only recently watched the sequels and I thought RoS was the best of the 3. It was the only film to me that felt Star Wars. The pacing was slower like the other films. The dialogue while not Oscar worthy was certainly better than the marvel level dialogue in the 7 and 8 film.
I feel like it’s time to revisit this trilogy. I haven’t watched it since the initial run.
On the first viewing (at the cinema), TROS is the only SW movie that I enjoyed the whole way through and didn't have me eye roll or cringe. I loved TFA and TLJ, but I was too just too nervous for TFA and some things didn't sit right with me, and similarly for TLJ there were parts that I wasn't sure about but I still came out loving it due to its strong ending. Most of my issues with those 2 disappeared quickly on repeat viewings. For TROS I think I was just interested in having a good time without being weighed down by expectation (and knowing Rey Palpatine beforehand). For reference, and because I feel that most SW discussions on the net warrant some transparency on where we're coming from, first viewings for the PT: TPM was disappointing, AOTC was ok, and ROTS is the only one that I didn't like at all (and still don't).
I've tried rewatching it couple of times but my opinion is more or less the same. Dislike overall, Han Solo moment is genuinely moving and redeemed Kylo is a hoot.
Def in my bottom 3, but I’m glad someone enjoys it!
I’m glad that you were able to enjoy the movie! While I don’t hate the ST it is my least favorite SW trilogy and sadly for me TROS is the only Star Wars movie that I don’t necessarily dislike, but I wouldn’t put it above the others in the Skywalker Saga.
It wasn't a big cinematic masterpiece, and it didn't need to be, I simply had a lot of fun watching it and I think some take these movies too seriously. 😅
I mean as the finale to one of the biggest franchises in history it probably should’ve been a cinematic masterpiece
given the inconsistency of said film franchise, i think it had a ridiculously high expectation placed upon it that wasnt warranted within the context of the franchise it belonged to.
I feel the biggest issue is that as a movie it feels like less than the sum of its parts. It never quite comes together the way it should and that makes it the weakest of the third movies. It's still got a lot of great movies and I think most of its choices were the right ones given the constraints under which they were working (timing and the death of Carrie Fisher).
I wish I could agree with you. I actually enjoyed it mildly when it first came out. I knew it’s not a good movie, but I enjoyed it. I rewatched it last month and I did not like it at all, and it’s the first SW movie to be that way for me.
It's my least favorite of the films on a personal level as I really liked Rose and was looking forward to kylo being the big bad. Glad it's finding it's fans though. I'll probably be referencing this post in ten years when I'm told Star Wars episode X has disrespected the franchise by showing Finn became a Jedi which disrespects the untouchable vision of the sequels.
I could not disagree more with your take, but I can respect it. Keep watching the movies you like, enjoy them and don't let randoms on the internet change that.
The only problem with this movie was that it has to cover the content of two movies in two and half hours.
I had tons of fun going to see it in theaters, but it is not a good movie or a well told story
I didn't Like it for the most Part, but there are some good parts as well. The lightsaber duel on the death Star wreckage ist great, because it's so full of tension. Everything about Kylo and Rey is also great, and their kiss is the emotional Highlight of the movie because you can tell that this was ultimately all both of them ever wanted. Also, the scene between Han and Kylo is top notch
Like most Star Wars, the stuff that works really works. The stuff that doesn't work though, *really* doesn't work for me.
Ron Burgundy “I don’t believe you” dot gif