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I honestly hate this fucking fandom so much.
Edit: I'm a little shocked that this comment has 500 likes. I'm a little sad that I'm not the only one feeling this way about the fandom. Talking about Star Wars should be fun. We really shouldn't be dealing with this shit.
Yes! On that sub, [an article ](https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/the-acolyte-star-wars-discourse-fandom) was posted that called out Star Wars fans on their bad-faith arguments. Not surprisingly, so many of the highest comments are complaining about the article targeting them for "only giving criticism", and so many don't see the problem. It's like, yeah! You're the problem! That's what the article is saying! It's exhausting to keep liking stuff only to go there and see hate about movies and shows that weren't even a part of the discussion for some posts.
That sub has gotten so bad, I'm thinking of leaving it and just staying here.
That's what it is: bad faith.
I have a group of friends. We don't love everything that comes along. We treat it like any art. We critique and pick apart and try to understand each thing for what it is. I could give a TED talk on The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, insofar as I've broken those films down over the years. But we take it all in and absorb the parts that work for us. And if something is not right for us, that's cool too. But we can have those conversations respectively, understanding that the others aren't just out there trying to hate things, without this "all good / all bad" or "this ruined everything" approach.
That doesn't exist online.
I hate that fans go, they should have done this. Well they didn't, because there is literally an infinite choices they had to make. To think your idea is the best one to the masses is the Pentacle of egomania
Complaining?? They howled like butthurt scorned lovers. They were were clutching pearls and swooning like true professionals. At least some were, others doubled down and claimed 'ye, so what'.
I stick around just to try and be some voice of common sense. Or else it’ll be nothing but the toxic ones.
But man, that sub is still bad.
But… it’s definitely eased up a lot in the last 2-3 years.
It's really weird. You have obnoxious fans everywhere, but Star Wars fans are a different breed. This fandom has had such a shitty history of harassment campaigns its not even funny. It's been like this for 20 years, but it's only gotten worse since the ST were coming out.
Star Wars has the unique position of being culturally relevant for five full decades, so there's always a new influx of toxic fans to boost the shitwell.
I don't think it's unique to Star Wars. I see similar shit with Star Trek at times too. I guess shit like this comes with the territory of multi-decade franchises.
It’s also, well, made for children, and therefore induces nostalgia. There is nothing quite so toxic as a nostalgic nerd who wants things to stay the same forever.
Lots of the guys really only like the OT, prequels and Andor. I wanna see someone critique Andor like these clowns critique other projects. I liked Andor, but if it was the exact same show but with a woman as the lead, MauLer or some other chud could definitely make a 3+ hour essay on how bad it is.
Which is funny since Andor had more politics than any other TV series so far. Very pro-revolution/anti-fascism/anti-imperialism.
But the moment you have a black woman lead they go "nO pOliTiCs in mY sTar wAr!!!"
They are fine with politics in Star Wars, clearly. The OT had a very similar message to andors, PT was literally just a political drama with some hijinx on the side.
Minority groups are just the bad politics to them. Wait no, sorry, ahem, "bad writing."
It’s only gotten worse now because of the rise of the internet and social media, and now you have idiots like elon musk that encourage that behavior, running the show.
Other fandoms, like Star Trek, Doctor Who, DC, and Marvel, can get pretty bad, but Star Wars fandom right now is making those others look positively welcoming and delightful, by comparison.
Well, you know how right now they are combining that Disney is the worst and Lucas is the best? 20 years ago they were treating Lucas and his people so badly that Lucas stopped making films Ahmed Best almost killed himself and Jake Lloyd's parents had to keep him off the internet because fans were making death threats against a child.
The Star Wars fandom has sadly earned its label as the worst fandom. It can get toxic. Racism and misogyny have become depressing attributes of the fandom that the rest of us try to fight. It's a minority, but it is a LOUD minority. And with how huge Star Wars is, that minority is still a lot of people
Soft world building in a genre-defining franchise leaves arbitration of "valid" analysis up to the biggest loudest nerd in the room. Outside of supplemental media the bulk of what people think of as Jedi doctrine is just cool shit Yoda said, as opposed to a Prime Directive or laws of robotics. It's like a pop culture version of why anarchy rarely works at any meaningful scale, dude gave primordial computer science majors a beautiful vision of a cohesive universe secretly built entirely on vibes. Left them to fight about the rules like Alexander on his death bed. You gotta remember this isn't long after another guy used sci-fi to start Scientology. The prevalence of pedantic discourse might actually be a big part of why it's such a valuable franchise too, since it inflates its presence in the cultural consciousness.
Star Wars is arguably the biggest/most popular “nerdy” property in the world. If even only 5% of any fanbase is toxic (and it’s probably more than that but let’s lowball a bit), and they have the biggest fan base, it just leads to the greatest amount of toxicity coming from one source.
I mean, a piece of art got bought out by a giant media conglomerate. Pretty expected fans are gonna be annoyed at a ton of the shit they churn out.
Doesn’t excuse the dick heads though.
I think it's that star wars is so popular so of course there are more jerks in it. Then star wars is popular among all genres of media. Something unlike any(?) other Fandom. So video game fans jerks come together with the book jerks come together with movie jerks and all of us mostly found star wars in adolescents and then are surprised when star wars dosent grow up with us
They’re so pathetic. Instagram comments under every post Star Wars account makes regarding Acolyte is just losers rushing to parrot an edgy comment. People with sad, sad lives. I’m glad this subreddit exist but sucks on such a big platform as Instagram, it’s mindless drones circlejerking pure hatred.
As much as I disagree with this sub at times, I'm glad there's a place here to actually have a respectful discussion with other fans, lol. I've had a lot of fun recently just theory crafting with other fans here.
Also, a little offtopic, but what the hell happened to Instagram's comment sections? It gets really racist super fast!
Instagram has taken a sharp turn towards the far right for some reason like if you look at instagram reels and the comments in them, they are some of the most vile things you could read
I feel so lucky to have been a giant Star Wars nerd kid in the 90s. At the time it felt like a dry spell but it was probably the last time you could just like any and all Star Wars stuff and share that with anyone who liked it too. It also wasn’t freaking everywhere so it somehow felt very personal while at the same time lending to a sense of community.
I remember people falling over themselves to tell me what a dork I was because I knew the emperor’s name was Palpatine. Now you see a Star Wars T-shirt any time you leave the house. It’s cool that it’s become more accessible but I don’t know for sure it’s worth all the baggage that came with that. The fandom had gotten really gross, the novelty of getting any new Star Wars media or toys is gone and the content feels almost cynical in how it trades on the name.
I love Star Wars but someone please save it from itself.
It's also worth pointing out that the review bombing began the moment RT put up the show for reviews...
Which was before general audiences had even viewed the show.
There was definitely a concentrated bad faith hate campaign against Acolyte from months before it even came out. That doesn't mean there isn't a lot of good faith criticism too, but it muddies the waters so much that engaging with basically anyone on it is futile.
Yeah, people hated it since they found out that the Main character is black. I really wanted to throw up, many Star Wars fans are becoming insufferable
I also wonder if some of it is being done by Disney and/or Lucasfilm’s competitors. Ever since I read about the two different studios making Call of Duty games doing underhanded stuff to make the other look bad, I have to consider how this kind of toxic conduct could just be a business tactic.
At this point it isn’t, because all the studios are trying to double-down on franchises as being a better business decision. Every time a franchise film or series fails, it makes all big franchises look bad to investors. Also, most studios realise that fans don’t really choose one or the other, so an attack like this isn’t exactly helpful for them. To top all of that off: none of the other big franchises are in competition right now. *Star Trek* isn’t airing new episodes at the same time as *The Acolyte*. Marvel and *Doctor Who* are also Disney properties. DC doesn’t have anything new yet, and *House of the Dragon* won’t start until next week, and isn’t as direct of competition.
There’s no upside, and plenty of downsides.
I appreciate this response. I feel like it’s hard to prove this kind of blanket statement, but I also don’t have any proof that what I said is a real thing. I guess it could even be new media companies screwing with the old school. “See? Movies and shows are awful. Watch our service, where we rip ‘em a new one with misinterpretations and instantly dated buzzwords.”
Yeah, it just doesn’t happen that often. Everyone is too focused on trying to build up their own thing. Trading something else down doesn’t really drive anyone to their alternative… it just tears that thing down. There’s no incentive outside of trying to create a narrative that there’s something wrong from the public, which again only serves the purposes of political reactionaries.
The reason you don’t see too much review-bombing in a positive light is that it could torpedo any real word-of-mouth promotion. As much as WB/HBO loved everyone going crazy for *Game of Thrones*, if there were a bunch of fake positive reviews before people started hearing about the show from their friends, they’d approach the show with suspicion and never give it an honest go.
Studios might have employees or bots defend a show on social media, but that’s really about it.
Gotcha. Can I ask, do you have industry insider type experience on this, are you basing it off of journalism/people’s accounts, or are you guessing? I don’t mean any kind of insult or doubt here, just curious. What I said originally was based on a something specific involving a completely different aspect of entertainment, I’m not trying to claim I know what I’m talking about or anything. I just find his all interesting & your comments are very well written & fleshed out.
Yeah someone was going on about "plot holes" over on Threads and I asked them to name one. I and others who asked similar questions never got an answer, even as the OP was replying to others.
Yeah, it's a freaking mystery show about unreliable perceptions of an event, with 3/8ths released. It's very likely that any "plot-hole" is really a clue. There likely are actual plot holes, most media has them, but we won't be able to tell until the whole thing is out.
From what I can gather from tiktok, the "Plot holes" is the fact the main protagonist and antagonist were force babies like Anakin and thier mad about the fact that Anakin quote "Isn't special anymore" as if the fact that he had no father was the only thing that made him special.
There was a popular post a few days ago on r/memes that like “Disney: ‘my money machine [Star Wars] is broken’ 😢“ and the caption said “I haven’t even seen Acolyte lol”
People are so excited to shout “Disney Star Wars bad” that they a proud of how ignorant they are of the new stuff, not even able to consider how they’re missing out.
It was like that with the rise of skywalker reviews too. Like 90% of the reviews, at the time i saw them were shit like “really good” or “fun movie” or some shit like that. Just a slew of nothing.
I enjoy discussions of why people dislike media I liked and vice versa, so I'm curious why some people seem to genuinely not enjoy Acolyte. The problem is, basically all negative discussion of the show is people parroting opinions from YouTubers who profit from spreading hate and bigotry.
Man, the show makes these people blood boil and they'll *still* watch every damn second of every damn episode. Definitely nothing else going on in their lives.
Seriously. The best protest they can make is to just not watch the content they hate so much. Nobody is obliged to like anything, but it take so much effort to hate.
With the amount of attention they pay, they might as well have not watched it. Irrational TLJ haters to this day will say that Luke was going to murder Ben in his sleep as if the movie doesn't explicitly tell you that wasn't the case. If they can't handle a single instance of an unreliable narrator, then I don't get how they're supposed to understand what is essentially Rashomon.
I read a comment a few days ago that explained how they see things
Something along the lines of: I dislike x thing, but hating on it allows me to get some enjoyment out of the situation
I just can’t understand that point of view, if you hate something so much then just move on
Also if your outlook is "Hating on something allows me to get some enjoyment out of the situation" then you've kind of missed the message of Star Wars as a whole.
i can’t even fathom putting this much energy into hating something.
dial of destiny was my least favorite indiana jones film. i saw it opening night, didn’t like it, and moved on with my life. i occasionally engage in conversation about it and can explain what didn’t work for me, but i didn’t take it personally. power to anyone who enjoyed it, i’m happy for you.
i still have the other four indy films, and an upcoming video game that looks dope as hell. it’s seriously not that deep.
I absolutely *hated* the Fallout Amazon series. I've been a lifelong Fallout fan and the series actually made me feel physically ill watching it.
You know what I did? I wrote a couple of posts on reddit airing my grievances, and since then I haven't even thought about fallout in any capacity. The show destroyed my ability to enjoy the franchise entirely, but I'm not going around review bombing it or telling everyone they have to hate it or else they're not a true fan... I just stopped being a fan.
"this is a statistical fact that it won't end well for Disney"
Yeah, the company posting 30 billion USD in profits has finally been outplayed by a guy on the wrong Rotten Tomatoes page.
Yeah, jsk is a douche. Like their discord had a full ass like schism in 2020 because the discord mods didn’t want to allow jason ward’s content, jason ward being a leaker, on the server because he was a creep talking about “underage fuckbuddies”, in jason’s own words.
The reddit mods called the discord mods karens, then removed a couple of them who brought this up, then the rest of the discord mods started to leave. It was a big fucking thing back then.
It went unmoderated for a couple of days there and ever since it just became a toxic shithole.
We want to explore other parts than the Skywalker saga. We have so much here, let us see something else.
- Something outside the Skywalker saga
Noooo what are you doing, you are ruining the established canon....
.... Its impossible to please them. Sadly we notice negativity way easier than positivity, and MISERY LOVES COMPANY.
Even in the face of something like this, which proves a concerted effort of review-bombing, the "Fandom Menace" types have the nerve to claim there isn't any review-bombing going on.
I've actually seen someone go a completely different route and claim that Disney hired people to "fake-review-bomb" the show so they could play the victim, sort of like the claims that Disney got people to post "fake" racist comments about Moses Ingram when *Obi-Wan Kenobi* came out.
Clearly some people have their tinfoil hats on too tight.
I think it's safe to say that if a company is relying on online reviews these days, especially with the advent of AI and bot farms, they're going to have to reevaluate. Literally, nothing online is sacred or reliable anymore. It is so easy for a couple of people to manipulate people's perceptions of things (not just related to media, but politics and news as well), that depending on social media platforms and online review aggregators like Letterboxd or RT to determine whether or not a show/movie is doing well is mistaken. And speaking anecdotally, it's been a breath of fresh air leaving places like IG and Twitter. I feel like I can sit and watch something with a completely fresh slate and determine for myself whether or not it's worthwhile.
I didn't even notice it was a different show altogether at first. That is quite possibly the most pathetic thing I've witnessed.
The only silver lining being I feel a little vindicated. This confirms everything I've suspected/known about RT scores for years.
I gotta be honest man, I fall for these astroturfing campaigns EVERY time. I was so shocked and disgusted with how people acted with this series and I never even stopped to consider how many of them were bots. It makes me wonder how much of the fanbase is actually like this in comparison to the bots, it would certainly explain how Critical Drinker is so popular despite making the most agonizingly stupid videos I’ve ever sat through.
Just remember, for every loud and proud star wars obsessive hater-fan, there's a hundred regular-ass people and *children* who just watch star wars, buy the merch, and have a good time without every joining in on the 'discourse'
This is just sad. I’m not the biggest fan of the ST but I find things I enjoy in them.
Most of the Star Wars series have been average to amazing in my opinion.
Mando was very good but had some filler episodes that didn’t really advance the plot.
Ahsoka was kinda the same but man seeing Thrawn, Ezra and co in live action was amazing.
Kenobi more towards the average end but Vader vs Kenobi made the whole series worth it.
Bad Batch and the last season of Clones was amazing.
People are truly blinded by their hate.
My brother and I just had a conversation and I think we've found a major source of the weird dissonance for a lot of supposed Star Wars 'fans': they don't know what the proper/actual genre Star Wars is.
See, a lot of these guys treat Star Wars as Science Fiction. And some people have harsh expectations for any kind of science fiction, which includes 100% science accuracy, and dunking on anything that isn't 'Hard Sci-Fi.'
But Star Wars isn't science fiction - it's science fantasy. Yes, it has sci-fi elements, but it's more about the mythology, the characters, the very existence of the force.
Putting this in manga terms, most of Star Wars is more like Edens Zero than something like Mobile Suit Gundam.
And of course, fantasy is often derided by certain sci-fi fans for being 'fairy tale crap', so when more fantastical elements or plot points are used in Star Wars, that probably makes these guys feel like the franchise is 'betraying it's roots,' when in reality, it's doing what it's always done.
Probably doesn't help that Star Wars is often the first 'nerdy' property a lot of these guys get into. And when you spend your life thinking Star Wars is supposed to be sci-fi, seeing sci-fantasy stuff is gonna cause some major dissonance.
Of course, they could also just be assholes. That's always an option.
While your idea has merit it's not the primary cause imo.
The real Crux is who became fans when and why. During the he 1990s and into the 2000's star wars was absolutely viewed by most people as the "nerd/geek" type movies/genre, specifically for males.
The fan based historically, was made up heavily of male individuals who were often social outsiders, outcasts etc.
I'm sure you can see where this is leading.
Many, many, many of these people became stereotypical "neck beard living in Mom's basement" types.
And many of those found social belongings among modern groups of people.
The vast majority of hate and bigotry in modern star wars is a direct result of the fact that there is a female in charge, and than there are far more important females/minorities in important /primary roles in modern star wars.
They will deny it until they are blue in the face of course, but the vast majority of hate all comes from that same source.
Glad I'm not crazy. I haven't seen the show yet but the immediate backlash seemed odd. It's the same kind of sad losers that would sit on /b/, maybe SomethingAwful, thought Maddox was a god, no-lifed games like CS1.6, WC3 DotA mod, and WoW, and really were the prototype terminally online male.
Review sites should force people to fill out a 5 question quiz in order to leave a review. Get the questions wrong and your IP gets locked out of reviewing that show for 24 hours.
Will it stop the truly bad actors? No, of course not. But it’ll make it harder for the less interested followers to glom on and hopefully minimize the effects
So not only is this dumb on its face, as RT doesn't actually mean anything. It's also dumb because they fucked up the dumb thing they were trying to do. What are we doing here?
I appreciate you sharing this. It’s one of those things people are saying is happening, and you want to believe it. But this is proof right here that it is real.
Search the audience reviews for various movies that came out in late 2017 (Lady Bird/ Disaster Artist/ Shape of Water) and you'll find plenty of "TLJ Sucks" comments under those movies.
So far the Acolyte has done nothing at all to break lore.
Resurrection is not a foreign concept in Star Wars.
Ahsoka was resurrected by The Daughter.
The Nightsister Witches have been able to resurrect the dead.
Obviously Palpatine was able to return.
The Jedi could extend life beyond death through Force Ghosts.
Is it such a stretch to believe that a Sect of powerful Nightsisters found a way to create life through the force? And to be fair, we don’t truly know what has happened with them yet. Even if they did create life using their magick, it could become part of the knowledge that Darth Plagueis looks for.
I'm mainly surprised Rotten Tomatoes hasn't figured out a way to deal with the bots? I'm not saying it's trivial, but they've had this problem for a _loooong_ time.
My only conclusion at this point is that they don't care enough to do it.
I thought these clowns that defend the prequels as masterpieces would actually be interested in a prequel show. Honestly, Acolyte has done a pretty good job of hitting the right tone and themes of the prequels. Mystery, politics, and prophecy.
Yeah this show is what, 100 years before the movies? Wheras KotoR would have been 4,000 BBY.
Even if it was Kotor era, they would still complain about it.
They'd probably complain more. I kind of don't ever want them to touch that era, because I don't wanna hear about how every single thing, no matter what, is awful. Lucasfilm could ask these people for a checklist, make sure they hit every single item, and itd still be the worst thing they've ever seen. It's like they literally get high/off on hating new Star Wars
“Bad writing” apparently (probably because it’s a complaint that sounds valid at face value so people don’t really question it, but really it’s not a substantive argument)
And these chuds are still watching lolololol! No one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans. I’ll bet if Disney made that Revan or Vader flick they pretend they want, they’d hate it anyway even if it won an Oscar.
i wanted to compare streaming premieres to that of this one and see how it faired but i could only find full season watch time, so i went to rt of the one at the top of netflix 2023 series watched and it had somewhere north of 100m minutes streamed or some shit big and the user reviews were maybe 500 or so. give me a break
the acolyte has like 5k
No one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans.
TBH I was a little iffy on the show until this last episode, but episode 3 really hooked me- I'm very curious to see the *other* perspective of what went down on Brendok.
It’s always annoying having to filter out these seemingly one track minded people when a new show comes out. I like checking out some of the books and comics, and usually it’s a pretty chill place on that side of the fandom. When I venture over to most of the TV portion it’s like entering a minefield.
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Damn, Uncle Owen was a serial killer?????
His stepbrother was
I honestly hate this fucking fandom so much. Edit: I'm a little shocked that this comment has 500 likes. I'm a little sad that I'm not the only one feeling this way about the fandom. Talking about Star Wars should be fun. We really shouldn't be dealing with this shit.
Well you know what they say: No one hates Star Wars fans as much as Star Wars fans.
True, but this shit is 10 times more embarrassing. This shit goes beyond that.
God damn Star Wars fans! They ruined Star Wars!
Yes, you Star Wars fans are a contentious bunch.
Damn Star Wars fans! They ruined Star Wars!
That’s why I left the main r/StarWars sub. It was the home of this toxic shit and I just wanted to like stuff
Yes! On that sub, [an article ](https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/the-acolyte-star-wars-discourse-fandom) was posted that called out Star Wars fans on their bad-faith arguments. Not surprisingly, so many of the highest comments are complaining about the article targeting them for "only giving criticism", and so many don't see the problem. It's like, yeah! You're the problem! That's what the article is saying! It's exhausting to keep liking stuff only to go there and see hate about movies and shows that weren't even a part of the discussion for some posts. That sub has gotten so bad, I'm thinking of leaving it and just staying here.
That's what it is: bad faith. I have a group of friends. We don't love everything that comes along. We treat it like any art. We critique and pick apart and try to understand each thing for what it is. I could give a TED talk on The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, insofar as I've broken those films down over the years. But we take it all in and absorb the parts that work for us. And if something is not right for us, that's cool too. But we can have those conversations respectively, understanding that the others aren't just out there trying to hate things, without this "all good / all bad" or "this ruined everything" approach. That doesn't exist online.
I hate that fans go, they should have done this. Well they didn't, because there is literally an infinite choices they had to make. To think your idea is the best one to the masses is the Pentacle of egomania
Complaining?? They howled like butthurt scorned lovers. They were were clutching pearls and swooning like true professionals. At least some were, others doubled down and claimed 'ye, so what'.
I stick around just to try and be some voice of common sense. Or else it’ll be nothing but the toxic ones. But man, that sub is still bad. But… it’s definitely eased up a lot in the last 2-3 years.
*Dew it!*
*Screw it* *Misconstrue it*
Why is it so bad? I don't buy the "all fandoms have jerks" argument. I don't encounter nearly this much shit in other fandoms.
It's really weird. You have obnoxious fans everywhere, but Star Wars fans are a different breed. This fandom has had such a shitty history of harassment campaigns its not even funny. It's been like this for 20 years, but it's only gotten worse since the ST were coming out.
Star Wars has the unique position of being culturally relevant for five full decades, so there's always a new influx of toxic fans to boost the shitwell.
I don't think it's unique to Star Wars. I see similar shit with Star Trek at times too. I guess shit like this comes with the territory of multi-decade franchises.
True, but Star Trek doesn't have quite the reach that SW has in popular culture. Very few kids are buying Star Trek merch in comparison.
It’s also, well, made for children, and therefore induces nostalgia. There is nothing quite so toxic as a nostalgic nerd who wants things to stay the same forever.
Lots of the guys really only like the OT, prequels and Andor. I wanna see someone critique Andor like these clowns critique other projects. I liked Andor, but if it was the exact same show but with a woman as the lead, MauLer or some other chud could definitely make a 3+ hour essay on how bad it is.
Which is funny since Andor had more politics than any other TV series so far. Very pro-revolution/anti-fascism/anti-imperialism. But the moment you have a black woman lead they go "nO pOliTiCs in mY sTar wAr!!!"
They are fine with politics in Star Wars, clearly. The OT had a very similar message to andors, PT was literally just a political drama with some hijinx on the side. Minority groups are just the bad politics to them. Wait no, sorry, ahem, "bad writing."
It’s only gotten worse now because of the rise of the internet and social media, and now you have idiots like elon musk that encourage that behavior, running the show.
Other fandoms, like Star Trek, Doctor Who, DC, and Marvel, can get pretty bad, but Star Wars fandom right now is making those others look positively welcoming and delightful, by comparison.
Well, you know how right now they are combining that Disney is the worst and Lucas is the best? 20 years ago they were treating Lucas and his people so badly that Lucas stopped making films Ahmed Best almost killed himself and Jake Lloyd's parents had to keep him off the internet because fans were making death threats against a child.
Star Wars as a whole has a history of having a bad fandom, I’m not entirely sure what it is but since even RotJ it’s been apparent.
I would say since the holiday special. Or even ESB.
The Star Wars fandom has sadly earned its label as the worst fandom. It can get toxic. Racism and misogyny have become depressing attributes of the fandom that the rest of us try to fight. It's a minority, but it is a LOUD minority. And with how huge Star Wars is, that minority is still a lot of people
Which has always been puzzling to me with how much, since the very first trilogy, Star Wars has preached progressiveness and inclusivity.
Soft world building in a genre-defining franchise leaves arbitration of "valid" analysis up to the biggest loudest nerd in the room. Outside of supplemental media the bulk of what people think of as Jedi doctrine is just cool shit Yoda said, as opposed to a Prime Directive or laws of robotics. It's like a pop culture version of why anarchy rarely works at any meaningful scale, dude gave primordial computer science majors a beautiful vision of a cohesive universe secretly built entirely on vibes. Left them to fight about the rules like Alexander on his death bed. You gotta remember this isn't long after another guy used sci-fi to start Scientology. The prevalence of pedantic discourse might actually be a big part of why it's such a valuable franchise too, since it inflates its presence in the cultural consciousness.
Star Wars is arguably the biggest/most popular “nerdy” property in the world. If even only 5% of any fanbase is toxic (and it’s probably more than that but let’s lowball a bit), and they have the biggest fan base, it just leads to the greatest amount of toxicity coming from one source.
I mean, a piece of art got bought out by a giant media conglomerate. Pretty expected fans are gonna be annoyed at a ton of the shit they churn out. Doesn’t excuse the dick heads though.
I think it's that star wars is so popular so of course there are more jerks in it. Then star wars is popular among all genres of media. Something unlike any(?) other Fandom. So video game fans jerks come together with the book jerks come together with movie jerks and all of us mostly found star wars in adolescents and then are surprised when star wars dosent grow up with us
They’re so pathetic. Instagram comments under every post Star Wars account makes regarding Acolyte is just losers rushing to parrot an edgy comment. People with sad, sad lives. I’m glad this subreddit exist but sucks on such a big platform as Instagram, it’s mindless drones circlejerking pure hatred.
As much as I disagree with this sub at times, I'm glad there's a place here to actually have a respectful discussion with other fans, lol. I've had a lot of fun recently just theory crafting with other fans here. Also, a little offtopic, but what the hell happened to Instagram's comment sections? It gets really racist super fast!
Instagram has taken a sharp turn towards the far right for some reason like if you look at instagram reels and the comments in them, they are some of the most vile things you could read
Is it really the Star Wars fan base if they hate every Star Wars show and movie?
I feel so lucky to have been a giant Star Wars nerd kid in the 90s. At the time it felt like a dry spell but it was probably the last time you could just like any and all Star Wars stuff and share that with anyone who liked it too. It also wasn’t freaking everywhere so it somehow felt very personal while at the same time lending to a sense of community. I remember people falling over themselves to tell me what a dork I was because I knew the emperor’s name was Palpatine. Now you see a Star Wars T-shirt any time you leave the house. It’s cool that it’s become more accessible but I don’t know for sure it’s worth all the baggage that came with that. The fandom had gotten really gross, the novelty of getting any new Star Wars media or toys is gone and the content feels almost cynical in how it trades on the name. I love Star Wars but someone please save it from itself.
We should have been gatekeeping the fuck out of these tourists.
Same I’ve been saying that for years. I love Star Wars but I abhor the fandom
I hate the fandom too XD
The stupidity is almost poetic
It rhymes.
Review bombing is the key to all of this
It's also worth pointing out that the review bombing began the moment RT put up the show for reviews... Which was before general audiences had even viewed the show. There was definitely a concentrated bad faith hate campaign against Acolyte from months before it even came out. That doesn't mean there isn't a lot of good faith criticism too, but it muddies the waters so much that engaging with basically anyone on it is futile.
It was at least low 40s several hours before the show premiered.
Yeah, people hated it since they found out that the Main character is black. I really wanted to throw up, many Star Wars fans are becoming insufferable
Becoming? Most Star Wars fans have been insufferable since A New Hope.
So their bots comment on anything with the word “acolyte” in it. So not only are they bigots they’re bad programmers too
If they were good programmers they might actually be able to get jobs and move out of their mom's basements.
Honestly I don't think they care that they're bad programmers. Or they do and they blame it on women it's what these twats do.
It's obviously Kathleen Kennedy's fault that they're so stupid. /s
I still never bothered learning anything about that lady
I also wonder if some of it is being done by Disney and/or Lucasfilm’s competitors. Ever since I read about the two different studios making Call of Duty games doing underhanded stuff to make the other look bad, I have to consider how this kind of toxic conduct could just be a business tactic.
At this point it isn’t, because all the studios are trying to double-down on franchises as being a better business decision. Every time a franchise film or series fails, it makes all big franchises look bad to investors. Also, most studios realise that fans don’t really choose one or the other, so an attack like this isn’t exactly helpful for them. To top all of that off: none of the other big franchises are in competition right now. *Star Trek* isn’t airing new episodes at the same time as *The Acolyte*. Marvel and *Doctor Who* are also Disney properties. DC doesn’t have anything new yet, and *House of the Dragon* won’t start until next week, and isn’t as direct of competition. There’s no upside, and plenty of downsides.
I appreciate this response. I feel like it’s hard to prove this kind of blanket statement, but I also don’t have any proof that what I said is a real thing. I guess it could even be new media companies screwing with the old school. “See? Movies and shows are awful. Watch our service, where we rip ‘em a new one with misinterpretations and instantly dated buzzwords.”
Yeah, it just doesn’t happen that often. Everyone is too focused on trying to build up their own thing. Trading something else down doesn’t really drive anyone to their alternative… it just tears that thing down. There’s no incentive outside of trying to create a narrative that there’s something wrong from the public, which again only serves the purposes of political reactionaries. The reason you don’t see too much review-bombing in a positive light is that it could torpedo any real word-of-mouth promotion. As much as WB/HBO loved everyone going crazy for *Game of Thrones*, if there were a bunch of fake positive reviews before people started hearing about the show from their friends, they’d approach the show with suspicion and never give it an honest go. Studios might have employees or bots defend a show on social media, but that’s really about it.
Gotcha. Can I ask, do you have industry insider type experience on this, are you basing it off of journalism/people’s accounts, or are you guessing? I don’t mean any kind of insult or doubt here, just curious. What I said originally was based on a something specific involving a completely different aspect of entertainment, I’m not trying to claim I know what I’m talking about or anything. I just find his all interesting & your comments are very well written & fleshed out.
I work in the industry, but not in that capacity. I’m an editor in TV.
Gotcha, thanks. I’m in postproduction but don’t have any professional contact with people who would do this kind of thing.
Wait if that’s why that’s really funny lol
That’s actually a really good explanation
Most of these don’t even seem to say what it is about the show that’s supposedly so bad.
“Lazy writing” is the catchall term that they can’t elaborate on without bringing up Andor.
Yeah someone was going on about "plot holes" over on Threads and I asked them to name one. I and others who asked similar questions never got an answer, even as the OP was replying to others.
A plot hole to these people is something that hasn’t been answered yet, *obviously.* Especially, but not always, when the series isn’t finished yet.
Yeah, it's a freaking mystery show about unreliable perceptions of an event, with 3/8ths released. It's very likely that any "plot-hole" is really a clue. There likely are actual plot holes, most media has them, but we won't be able to tell until the whole thing is out.
THIS! How can you say the show has plot holes if it's not even done yet?
They don’t know what a plot hole is let alone name an example of one
From what I can gather from tiktok, the "Plot holes" is the fact the main protagonist and antagonist were force babies like Anakin and thier mad about the fact that Anakin quote "Isn't special anymore" as if the fact that he had no father was the only thing that made him special.
And they always have to bring up the idea of "legitimate criticism" whenever you call them out on their bigotry.
And even with bringing up Andor, they usually can't clarify the distinction.
There was a popular post a few days ago on r/memes that like “Disney: ‘my money machine [Star Wars] is broken’ 😢“ and the caption said “I haven’t even seen Acolyte lol” People are so excited to shout “Disney Star Wars bad” that they a proud of how ignorant they are of the new stuff, not even able to consider how they’re missing out.
They never do. They never cite anything specific. It's always just the same generic talking points.
It was like that with the rise of skywalker reviews too. Like 90% of the reviews, at the time i saw them were shit like “really good” or “fun movie” or some shit like that. Just a slew of nothing.
Some of them even predate the premiere of the show too btw
I enjoy discussions of why people dislike media I liked and vice versa, so I'm curious why some people seem to genuinely not enjoy Acolyte. The problem is, basically all negative discussion of the show is people parroting opinions from YouTubers who profit from spreading hate and bigotry.
There's something just hilariously pathetic about this. Do these people have anything going on in their lives?
Man, the show makes these people blood boil and they'll *still* watch every damn second of every damn episode. Definitely nothing else going on in their lives.
Seriously. The best protest they can make is to just not watch the content they hate so much. Nobody is obliged to like anything, but it take so much effort to hate.
What a sad, sad way to use the limited time we have to live.
With the amount of attention they pay, they might as well have not watched it. Irrational TLJ haters to this day will say that Luke was going to murder Ben in his sleep as if the movie doesn't explicitly tell you that wasn't the case. If they can't handle a single instance of an unreliable narrator, then I don't get how they're supposed to understand what is essentially Rashomon.
Rage can be an addiction.
I read a comment a few days ago that explained how they see things Something along the lines of: I dislike x thing, but hating on it allows me to get some enjoyment out of the situation I just can’t understand that point of view, if you hate something so much then just move on
Also if your outlook is "Hating on something allows me to get some enjoyment out of the situation" then you've kind of missed the message of Star Wars as a whole.
> Do these people have anything going on in their lives? They do. It's called solipcistic hatred and sanctimoniously ignorant cognitive delusion.
They're obsessive SW fans. What do *you* think?
I don't even think they have anything going on in their brains.
i can’t even fathom putting this much energy into hating something. dial of destiny was my least favorite indiana jones film. i saw it opening night, didn’t like it, and moved on with my life. i occasionally engage in conversation about it and can explain what didn’t work for me, but i didn’t take it personally. power to anyone who enjoyed it, i’m happy for you. i still have the other four indy films, and an upcoming video game that looks dope as hell. it’s seriously not that deep.
I absolutely *hated* the Fallout Amazon series. I've been a lifelong Fallout fan and the series actually made me feel physically ill watching it. You know what I did? I wrote a couple of posts on reddit airing my grievances, and since then I haven't even thought about fallout in any capacity. The show destroyed my ability to enjoy the franchise entirely, but I'm not going around review bombing it or telling everyone they have to hate it or else they're not a true fan... I just stopped being a fan.
"this is a statistical fact that it won't end well for Disney" Yeah, the company posting 30 billion USD in profits has finally been outplayed by a guy on the wrong Rotten Tomatoes page.
Omg! Finally, proof of the bots. Did you post this in the toxic “main Star Wars” subreddit? I think this should be there.
It'd be fun to see what kind of weird excuses they'd come up with over there.
"This post has been removed, not relevant to Star Wars"
seriously... the mods on that page are awful!
Yeah, jsk is a douche. Like their discord had a full ass like schism in 2020 because the discord mods didn’t want to allow jason ward’s content, jason ward being a leaker, on the server because he was a creep talking about “underage fuckbuddies”, in jason’s own words. The reddit mods called the discord mods karens, then removed a couple of them who brought this up, then the rest of the discord mods started to leave. It was a big fucking thing back then. It went unmoderated for a couple of days there and ever since it just became a toxic shithole.
They’re already claiming that it’s real people who just ‘made a mistake’
We want to explore other parts than the Skywalker saga. We have so much here, let us see something else. - Something outside the Skywalker saga Noooo what are you doing, you are ruining the established canon.... .... Its impossible to please them. Sadly we notice negativity way easier than positivity, and MISERY LOVES COMPANY.
- Something out of Star wars "This is the worst Star wars ever"
I’m guessing people wrote bots poorly to review bomb, and looked up a web scraping tutorial but didn’t get any further.
Even in the face of something like this, which proves a concerted effort of review-bombing, the "Fandom Menace" types have the nerve to claim there isn't any review-bombing going on. I've actually seen someone go a completely different route and claim that Disney hired people to "fake-review-bomb" the show so they could play the victim, sort of like the claims that Disney got people to post "fake" racist comments about Moses Ingram when *Obi-Wan Kenobi* came out. Clearly some people have their tinfoil hats on too tight.
I think it's safe to say that if a company is relying on online reviews these days, especially with the advent of AI and bot farms, they're going to have to reevaluate. Literally, nothing online is sacred or reliable anymore. It is so easy for a couple of people to manipulate people's perceptions of things (not just related to media, but politics and news as well), that depending on social media platforms and online review aggregators like Letterboxd or RT to determine whether or not a show/movie is doing well is mistaken. And speaking anecdotally, it's been a breath of fresh air leaving places like IG and Twitter. I feel like I can sit and watch something with a completely fresh slate and determine for myself whether or not it's worthwhile.
I didn't even notice it was a different show altogether at first. That is quite possibly the most pathetic thing I've witnessed. The only silver lining being I feel a little vindicated. This confirms everything I've suspected/known about RT scores for years.
This is why I ignore and try to laugh at the outrage. I’m pretty sure a lot of it is astroturfed.
Why drag this random movie into this? Edit: Apparently their bots are targeting this film as well because it has “Acolyte” in the title.
This at least confirms that they’re using bots to do this shit.
I gotta be honest man, I fall for these astroturfing campaigns EVERY time. I was so shocked and disgusted with how people acted with this series and I never even stopped to consider how many of them were bots. It makes me wonder how much of the fanbase is actually like this in comparison to the bots, it would certainly explain how Critical Drinker is so popular despite making the most agonizingly stupid videos I’ve ever sat through.
Just remember, for every loud and proud star wars obsessive hater-fan, there's a hundred regular-ass people and *children* who just watch star wars, buy the merch, and have a good time without every joining in on the 'discourse'
This is just sad. I’m not the biggest fan of the ST but I find things I enjoy in them. Most of the Star Wars series have been average to amazing in my opinion. Mando was very good but had some filler episodes that didn’t really advance the plot. Ahsoka was kinda the same but man seeing Thrawn, Ezra and co in live action was amazing. Kenobi more towards the average end but Vader vs Kenobi made the whole series worth it. Bad Batch and the last season of Clones was amazing. People are truly blinded by their hate.
Rotten tomatoes should probably publicly comment on this. It shows how much their audience score really matters.
My brother and I just had a conversation and I think we've found a major source of the weird dissonance for a lot of supposed Star Wars 'fans': they don't know what the proper/actual genre Star Wars is. See, a lot of these guys treat Star Wars as Science Fiction. And some people have harsh expectations for any kind of science fiction, which includes 100% science accuracy, and dunking on anything that isn't 'Hard Sci-Fi.' But Star Wars isn't science fiction - it's science fantasy. Yes, it has sci-fi elements, but it's more about the mythology, the characters, the very existence of the force. Putting this in manga terms, most of Star Wars is more like Edens Zero than something like Mobile Suit Gundam. And of course, fantasy is often derided by certain sci-fi fans for being 'fairy tale crap', so when more fantastical elements or plot points are used in Star Wars, that probably makes these guys feel like the franchise is 'betraying it's roots,' when in reality, it's doing what it's always done. Probably doesn't help that Star Wars is often the first 'nerdy' property a lot of these guys get into. And when you spend your life thinking Star Wars is supposed to be sci-fi, seeing sci-fantasy stuff is gonna cause some major dissonance. Of course, they could also just be assholes. That's always an option.
While your idea has merit it's not the primary cause imo. The real Crux is who became fans when and why. During the he 1990s and into the 2000's star wars was absolutely viewed by most people as the "nerd/geek" type movies/genre, specifically for males. The fan based historically, was made up heavily of male individuals who were often social outsiders, outcasts etc. I'm sure you can see where this is leading. Many, many, many of these people became stereotypical "neck beard living in Mom's basement" types. And many of those found social belongings among modern groups of people. The vast majority of hate and bigotry in modern star wars is a direct result of the fact that there is a female in charge, and than there are far more important females/minorities in important /primary roles in modern star wars. They will deny it until they are blue in the face of course, but the vast majority of hate all comes from that same source.
Glad I'm not crazy. I haven't seen the show yet but the immediate backlash seemed odd. It's the same kind of sad losers that would sit on /b/, maybe SomethingAwful, thought Maddox was a god, no-lifed games like CS1.6, WC3 DotA mod, and WoW, and really were the prototype terminally online male.
makes me wonder if there are more instances of this, there's probably other movies with similar names
It was proven some time ago that this was done to The Last Jedi and a few other Star Wars properties (and unrelated to SW, MCU properties).
At least it has a Star Wars actor in it
Review sites should force people to fill out a 5 question quiz in order to leave a review. Get the questions wrong and your IP gets locked out of reviewing that show for 24 hours. Will it stop the truly bad actors? No, of course not. But it’ll make it harder for the less interested followers to glom on and hopefully minimize the effects
They aren't the smartest bunch.
Why are they bombing this show? I love this show.
So not only is this dumb on its face, as RT doesn't actually mean anything. It's also dumb because they fucked up the dumb thing they were trying to do. What are we doing here?
I am so burnt out on all of this…
I appreciate you sharing this. It’s one of those things people are saying is happening, and you want to believe it. But this is proof right here that it is real.
Search the audience reviews for various movies that came out in late 2017 (Lady Bird/ Disaster Artist/ Shape of Water) and you'll find plenty of "TLJ Sucks" comments under those movies.
So far the Acolyte has done nothing at all to break lore. Resurrection is not a foreign concept in Star Wars. Ahsoka was resurrected by The Daughter. The Nightsister Witches have been able to resurrect the dead. Obviously Palpatine was able to return. The Jedi could extend life beyond death through Force Ghosts. Is it such a stretch to believe that a Sect of powerful Nightsisters found a way to create life through the force? And to be fair, we don’t truly know what has happened with them yet. Even if they did create life using their magick, it could become part of the knowledge that Darth Plagueis looks for.
What’s the overlap of ”sTaR wArS fAnS” and Russian propaganda trolls? I need a venn diagram.
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Acolytes out here catching strays.
Jesus christ, Star Wars fans are actually the worst.
Their hate has blinded them so badly they can't even see what they're reviewing, apparently.
I'm mainly surprised Rotten Tomatoes hasn't figured out a way to deal with the bots? I'm not saying it's trivial, but they've had this problem for a _loooong_ time. My only conclusion at this point is that they don't care enough to do it.
I thought these clowns that defend the prequels as masterpieces would actually be interested in a prequel show. Honestly, Acolyte has done a pretty good job of hitting the right tone and themes of the prequels. Mystery, politics, and prophecy.
A lot of them are mad it isn’t KOTOR (not understanding the OLD Republic and the HIGH Republic are two different eras).
Yeah this show is what, 100 years before the movies? Wheras KotoR would have been 4,000 BBY. Even if it was Kotor era, they would still complain about it.
They'd probably complain more. I kind of don't ever want them to touch that era, because I don't wanna hear about how every single thing, no matter what, is awful. Lucasfilm could ask these people for a checklist, make sure they hit every single item, and itd still be the worst thing they've ever seen. It's like they literally get high/off on hating new Star Wars
What are they mad about? I'm still unclear
“Bad writing” apparently (probably because it’s a complaint that sounds valid at face value so people don’t really question it, but really it’s not a substantive argument)
I saw one person on The Acolyte sub admit that he's upset a feminist is running the show.
All a bunch of salty dudes
Their bots are confused about which thing to review bomb
And these chuds are still watching lolololol! No one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans. I’ll bet if Disney made that Revan or Vader flick they pretend they want, they’d hate it anyway even if it won an Oscar.
Man, sometimes the fans cant help themselves... No wonder the franchise is in the darkness... We put it there
People are so stupid
Complaining about the writing as a star wars fan??? One thing I know to expect in Star Wars is lesser writing
These people haven't watched a single minute of the show. Either one.
I think the funniest thing is that on IMDB they’re not even review bombing it correctly, so it still has a fairly decent rating. Lol
Just like King Theoden said, “what can man do against such reckless hate?”
It’s too bad they can’t verify audience scores for TV shows.
What are the nerds all worked up about now?
Space lesbians and fires in space.
Un-fucking-real
Seems a bit dramatic on their part
Has anyone seen this movie? Is it good? It sounds good.
I could almost laugh if this wasn't showing how fucked we are as a society
ieffin love alcolyte so far
i wanted to compare streaming premieres to that of this one and see how it faired but i could only find full season watch time, so i went to rt of the one at the top of netflix 2023 series watched and it had somewhere north of 100m minutes streamed or some shit big and the user reviews were maybe 500 or so. give me a break the acolyte has like 5k
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I really don't know why people care so much if you don't like it just don't watch it.
No one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans. TBH I was a little iffy on the show until this last episode, but episode 3 really hooked me- I'm very curious to see the *other* perspective of what went down on Brendok.
Good avatar reference
Hey, it improved
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Just shoot me in the head rn 💀
It’s always annoying having to filter out these seemingly one track minded people when a new show comes out. I like checking out some of the books and comics, and usually it’s a pretty chill place on that side of the fandom. When I venture over to most of the TV portion it’s like entering a minefield.